Guild Wars 2

While we’re on the topic of protector’s strike, I’d very much like the ability to cancel the channel and receive the protection instantly.

Carighan.6758:

Yes well, I can pick setups which aren’t mobile, too. If mobility isn’t required in the situation I’m facing, cool, less slots wasted on something I don’t need.

If I need mobility, I’ll use my mobility weapons/skills.

How is this… not as it should be?

Because that build is exclusively support-oriented and has little to no efficiency in solo and small group play. Nobody in their right mind would take their staff solo roaming; it just doesn’t work.

Apparition.1576:

This is a Warrior we are talking about… warriors need mobility. Otherwise they could just be kited into oblivion. That was part of the class design. Greatsword warriors have nothing but mobility, but mobility counts for exactly what in pvp? Sword + warhorn is the most mobile spec warriors have, except that they can kitten near immune to conditions. So at the cost of damage they have much better sustain.

But why should a Greatsword warrior be forced to use axe or hammer for damage. Greatsword has no sustain, horrible damage, at the cost of mobility thats part of the class design?

Greatsword received way to many nerfs, and no compensation before the condition meta.

Should thief or mesmer have their damaged nerfed to kitten as well?.. Mesmers have clones, stealth and mobility. How is a greatsword warrior supposed to compete?

I don’t mind them being able to move INTO combat. It’s being able to get AWAY from combat so easily that’s the problem.

I’d be all for making GS more worth using in combat, at the cost of reducing its mobility.

MercilessLemurs.7459:

Black Box.9312:

style.6173:

This thread is hilarious. I have virtually perma swiftness of my guardian. What more do I need?

That’s great! Now if only staff and shouts and boon duration gear was good for solo play, where mobility actually matters…

Meditations and sword if you are solo.

I think you missed the point.

Khalic.3561:

Black Box.9312:

Khalic.3561:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

The primary reason of the Ferocity change was bringing these in line. These weird imbalances between slots don’t exist in PvP, so nothing has to change there.

If that was the case then they would allow you to reach the same maximum amount of crit damage as before, but the amount per piece would be more uniform.

It was done to normalize critical damage and bring it in line with other stats. Being able to directly scale a percentage modifier made the game too vulnerable to power creep.

Such as boon duration or condi duration?

Those aren’t nearly as problematic at this time, but yes.

Khalic.3561:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

The primary reason of the Ferocity change was bringing these in line. These weird imbalances between slots don’t exist in PvP, so nothing has to change there.

If that was the case then they would allow you to reach the same maximum amount of crit damage as before, but the amount per piece would be more uniform.

It was done to normalize critical damage and bring it in line with other stats. Being able to directly scale a percentage modifier made the game too vulnerable to power creep.

style.6173:

This thread is hilarious. I have virtually perma swiftness of my guardian. What more do I need?

That’s great! Now if only staff and shouts and boon duration gear was good for solo play, where mobility actually matters…

hooma.9642:

Black Box.9312:

hooma.9642:

so this thread is about: “i ignored the class-philosophy and picked a guard but wanted a warrior in secret”?

No. I have a warrior, and I find it boring as hell. I prefer the playstyle of guardian, but I just got tired of not being able to keep up with anything because of a silly design philosophy.

so u have a suv but it is boring and the ferrari is just more fun to drive. but cause stupid design philosophy of ferrari u cant drive with them off-road. ???

seems reasonable

I tried to understand your analogy. I really did. But I just don’t get the part that’s supposed to be relevant.

Hayashi.3416:

In short: Only guardians can’t.

lolwut.

hooma.9642:

so this thread is about: “i ignored the class-philosophy and picked a guard but wanted a warrior in secret”?

No. I have a warrior, and I find it boring as hell. I prefer the playstyle of guardian, but I just got tired of not being able to keep up with anything because of a silly design philosophy.

Uhtameit.2413:

Black Box.9312:

Uhtameit.2413:

As for soft cc, GS has one.

Do you even know what soft CC is?

I realized what he meant by that later on, since it is just a pull I thought it fit in. Do you realize how unconstructive you are by not reading the rest of the thread?

I don’t need to read the entire thread, because I main a guardian and know exactly what it is lacking.

Uhtameit.2413:

As for soft cc, GS has one.

Do you even know what soft CC is?

Defiant stance is just a dumb skill to begin with, and should be replaced by something more skillful.

Neko.9021:

Guardians have the best support in the game, high base damage, and a lot of inherent survivability. They’re balanced out by their low mobility.

No, they’re balanced by the fact that you can’t have all of the above with a single build. There’s no reason for a melee class to have such a lack of an ability to hit its target.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Mesmers are the ones who lack movement, seriously.
Guardians at least have access to a lot of swiftness.

-Symbol of Swiftness
-Retreat
-Save Yourselves

and some mobilty skills
-Leap of Faith
-Flashing Blade

Sure it may not be the super mobility warriors and thieves have, but it’s nothing to complain about.

Mesmers are also much less dependent on mobility because of reliable ranged weapons like greatsword and staff, soft CC in the form of cripples, and access to stealth which reduces dependence on mobility. And I’d take blink over flashing blade any day of the week.

Not to say that you’re wrong, but more to say that mesmers can do pretty well despite lack of mobility.

While I agree with the premise of guardians needing more mobility and/or soft CC, as a guardian you should not be losing to a thief in anything but a race.

lorndarken.3702:

funny how most of the complaints come from people who dont even realize they have more ways to remove conditions then they do to apply them .

As far as I’m aware, there aren’t any autoattacks that remove conditions.

Amins.3710:

Abe Kleine.3568:

xFx.3247:

I am just saying that we been using the same builds for a long time, not trying to argue if we have one of the strongest builds or not; Just that we’ve using the same builds.

You know your class has no variety when you blow gold on dire gear to make a fake burn guardian just to humor yourself and do something “different” lol

Even bought trinkets, gold down the drain just to suck out the last remaining entertainment in the guardian profession

I have a full condi set w/ Perplexity runes so I can just JI / Sanctuary into a group and proc Confusion and burning, covering w/ Vulnerability.

Best condi build EVAH~!

That actually sounds hilarious. Have any vids to share? (If you’re serious, at least. I honestly can’t tell.)

Syeria.4812:

Black Box.9312:

Syeria.4812:

Just so I’m following here, the arguments are “guardian is not in a good place” because:

1) Guardian is boring
2) Guardian isn’t as mindless as other classes
3) Guardian isn’t super mega OP
4) Guardian hasn’t changed a ton

So…does anyone have an actual argument for guardian not being in a good place? I’m not saying they are, it’s just that none of the “arguments” put forth in this thread actually disagree with that.

There have been plenty of valid posts about what is currently wrong with the guardian class. I don’t know whether you’re not understanding it or you’re just intentionally ignoring it, but these ARE significant issues, regardless of whether or not you think so.

Where is there a single balance issue that has been pointed out in this thread? Please just quote them. As I said earlier, it’s entirely possible there’s issues that put Guardian in not a good spot, but no one here has done anything other than whine without providing the smallest shred of evidence that Guardian is unbalanced.

Ever played a spirit weapon build?

Give it a try, and you might have a different outlook.

Syeria.4812:

Just so I’m following here, the arguments are “guardian is not in a good place” because:

1) Guardian is boring
2) Guardian isn’t as mindless as other classes
3) Guardian isn’t super mega OP
4) Guardian hasn’t changed a ton

So…does anyone have an actual argument for guardian not being in a good place? I’m not saying they are, it’s just that none of the “arguments” put forth in this thread actually disagree with that.

There have been plenty of valid posts about what is currently wrong with the guardian class. I don’t know whether you’re not understanding it or you’re just intentionally ignoring it, but these ARE significant issues, regardless of whether or not you think so.

hooma.9642:

warrior is pigeon holed into defense

Elementalists with 30 in water say hi.

Mightymealworm.8409:

Wow, thanks for shooting down the only new guardian GM trait I was interested in.

My heart says yes, but my gut says no.

I think that rather than requesting this, we should be asking why the ‘elite’ skills feel so underwhelming in the first place.

Guardian is well balanced in a sense that you can fit a role nicely when a player specs for it with one.

Guardian is not well balanced in a sense that the number of effective roles for it are very limited and it has many underwhelming skills and traits that have been woefully neglected.

While I won’t say that guardian as a class is suffering from the worst of class balance issues, it does bother me that there are a whole 2 different roles that it has effective builds for.

Very well spoken, OP. I agree wholeheartedly.

Pyroathiest.4168:

Black Box.9312:

Harper.4173:

Black Box.9312:

I’ve been all for this idea since day one. Having direct access to percentage-based damage modifiers makes power creep too easy. They’ve fixed part of it with the crit damage rework, now they need to do this as well.

Fixed what ? Nerfing damage across the board for all classes is somehow a fix now?
It could have been a fix if they only transferred the stats and didn’t nerf the damage.

Being able to scale critical damage directly is problematic because it makes balancing much more difficult. By scaling it with an indirect modifier now they can simply adjust the ratio to increase or decrease damage by smaller increments.

And obviously just changing the scaling of critical damage isn’t the solution, but it was a necessary first step to prevent power creep.

That makes 0 sense. Just because it’s a % doesn’t mean you can’t apply math to it like any other number.

It makes perfect sense if you actually understand what I said. Which it appears you did not.

Harper.4173:

Black Box.9312:

I’ve been all for this idea since day one. Having direct access to percentage-based damage modifiers makes power creep too easy. They’ve fixed part of it with the crit damage rework, now they need to do this as well.

Fixed what ? Nerfing damage across the board for all classes is somehow a fix now?
It could have been a fix if they only transferred the stats and didn’t nerf the damage.

Being able to scale critical damage directly is problematic because it makes balancing much more difficult. By scaling it with an indirect modifier now they can simply adjust the ratio to increase or decrease damage by smaller increments.

And obviously just changing the scaling of critical damage isn’t the solution, but it was a necessary first step to prevent power creep.

I’ve been all for this idea since day one. Having direct access to percentage-based damage modifiers makes power creep too easy. They’ve fixed part of it with the crit damage rework, now they need to do this as well.

Simon.3794:

Black Box.9312:

Simon.3794:

Black Box.9312:

Simon.3794:

Kadin.2356:

Simon.3794:

Maybe you should explain to me why the guardian is the best bunker with lowest base hp

Block skill chaining and easy access to protection. To do so however they have to give up on really doing any significant damage.

you are saying that guardian can have block chain and protection(and blind chain) but can do no damage?

i wonder what is a meditation guardian.

Implying that a meditation guardian can bunker.

Implying that a mediation guardian can Block skill chaining and easy access to protection. Please read what its written.

I’ve played a meditation guard. It doesn’t rely on protection at all, it’s mostly blocks, blinds, and dodges that keep it alive. It’s not a build that is meant for defensive purposes and is very reliant on skillful activation of a limited number of active defenses with high cooldowns to make up for its inherent squishiness. And it’s certainly not able to bunker.

So please, don’t make assumptions about a class or build that you have no knowledge or experience with.

So, A medatation guard doesnt have protection, let’s ignore hammer meditation build 1st, a meditation guard still has access to block chaining and blind spamming. does it render my argument any pointless? let’s make it clear that i did not say meditation guard can bunk before you start.

Ever used a hammer in PvP? Good luck landing that symbol.

That aside though, here’s how to beat a medi guardian: Wait for the focus block to wear off (or break it, your call) then kite it to death. It really isn’t very defensible and relies very heavily on burst damage to subdue the opponent before they can unleash their own offense.

You’re trying to argue that a medi guardian can be defensible and deal good damage, and I’m telling you that you’re wrong. Guardians can be built for good damage, and they can be built for good survivability, but they cannot be built for both.

Simon.3794:

Black Box.9312:

Simon.3794:

Kadin.2356:

Simon.3794:

Maybe you should explain to me why the guardian is the best bunker with lowest base hp

Block skill chaining and easy access to protection. To do so however they have to give up on really doing any significant damage.

you are saying that guardian can have block chain and protection(and blind chain) but can do no damage?

i wonder what is a meditation guardian.

Implying that a meditation guardian can bunker.

Implying that a mediation guardian can Block skill chaining and easy access to protection. Please read what its written.

I’ve played a meditation guard. It doesn’t rely on protection at all, it’s mostly blocks, blinds, and dodges that keep it alive. It’s not a build that is meant for defensive purposes and is very reliant on skillful activation of a limited number of active defenses with high cooldowns to make up for its inherent squishiness. And it’s certainly not able to bunker.

So please, don’t make assumptions about a class or build that you have no knowledge or experience with.

Simon.3794:

Kadin.2356:

Simon.3794:

Maybe you should explain to me why the guardian is the best bunker with lowest base hp

Block skill chaining and easy access to protection. To do so however they have to give up on really doing any significant damage.

you are saying that guardian can have block chain and protection(and blind chain) but can do no damage?

i wonder what is a meditation guardian.

Implying that a meditation guardian can bunker.

Anet seems to think that, since guardian can bunker well, that it is perfectly balanced and doesn’t need any boosts to other builds to promote build diversity.

Deku.3129:

You do realize there’s a trait that applies burning every 3 hits instead of 5, right?

That’s 20 in virtues if memory serves correctly, which lacks other traits that boost conditions. Besides, how often are you able to get successive hits off on a single target quickly enough for the 1 second burning ticks to deal adequate damage?

Thadrin.7586:

I just.. Wat? Tell me have you ever TESTED a condi guard? or at least a hybrid? The damage you can get, and the amount of burning you can put on targets is insane.. Especially in a group.

I count 4 skills that apply burning. VoJ, Judge’s Intervention, Purging Flames, and Zealot’s Flame (which requires you to stay in melee range for the full duration, which isn’t exactly easy for a guardian to do).

Maintaining it consistently requires heavy trait and gear compensation, and it is very easily removable. Players are building for a condition meta where access to multiple condition removal abilities is common. Against any decent player, it will be nearly impossible to keep any decent uptime on burning.

glaphen.5230:

It doesn’t matter how strong the burning damage is, because it cannot be consistently applied enough in solo play to be an effective source of sustained damage.

What?

To clarify: It doesn’t matter how much the burning ticks for each second, because once it’s gone the enemy can simply heal it back up while you’re left whiffing at them with your lack of direct damage.

And seeing as we’re currently in a condition meta where most players will pack the condition removal on pretty heavily, it WILL be gone quickly.

I simply don’t get why Anet is pushing so hard to make condi guardian a thing. Guardian has one condition that deals damage (burning), which stacks duration over intensity. It has no weapon skills that actively apply this condition, and the main source of it has at least 15 seconds of downtime (which would be building your traits to maximize both virtue recharge and condition duration, which would leave room for only 10 (2?) trait points into the condition damage traitline, thus handicapping the actual DPS in the first place).

It doesn’t matter how strong the burning damage is, because it cannot be consistently applied enough in solo play to be an effective source of sustained damage. Not only this, but also in a group when VoJ is applied to allies it uses their condition damage as a multiplier instead of the guardian’s, and since it doesn’t stack the damage together it shuts out the burning damage of the guardian.

It just doesn’t make sense that the guardian is being given all of these kitten attempts to make it a part of the condition meta. If the condition meta is being embraced and encouraged, then guardian needs more diversity in damage-dealing conditions and more active ways to apply them. If the goal is to move away from the condition meta, then there’s no need to be working toward a condition build at all.

As a class, the guardian has a lot of things going for it. They are top-tier bunkers in sPvP. They are one of, if not the most, desired classes to have in WvW zergs. Medi burst guardians can take down unsuspecting foes very quickly. On top of that, they are a crucial part of strong PvE groups because they have strong direct damage output and highly valuable support-based utilities. But even these builds have their weaknesses. Defensive guardians often rely on allies to keep them sustainable. DPS guardians suffer from a lack of mobility and ability to stick to the target. And then there are things that hardly anyone worth their salt ever bothers to use because they’ve been woefully neglected, like spirit weapon and signet builds.

So please, Anet, let’s just put the idea of a one-trick pony condition damage guardian to rest. Because one non-sustainable source of damage just isn’t enough to make it work, no matter how much it ticks for each second.

raubvogel.5071:

I like the new trait and it fits perfectly into honor.

Honor is actually the only traitline where it DOESN’T fit, IMO. None of the builds that would genuinely benefit from it go 30 into honor.

Have you ever played a lockdown mesmer? It has quite a high skill cap to it. If they’re able to interrupt your key skills, I’d say that they deserve the reward for doing so.

Also the guardian trait isn’t going to make much of a difference seeing as they put it into honor. Guardians that go into honor will have no need for extra vitality.

It’s a good trait; it’s just in the wrong traitline. Honor already gives a vitality boost, so honor-based guardians are about the only build that won’t be able to make good use of it.

I’d honestly much rather see it go in zeal, so that there’s a reason for glass guardians to take zeal. Right now it’s still a traitline with mostly garbage traits.

Learn the dungeons, and use experience to your advantage to find what works for each one.

Advent Leader.1083:

Just a curiosity, do most boss AI have simple, rudimentary routines that don’t branch out?

Yes.

Loyo.8526:

I know this isn’t the correct format, but I can’t agree with the change on Sword skill #2 being inverted. The whole purpose of it is to break off the chain and disengage from combat via a dodge or sorts. If you make it so that you have to jump forward first, it will most likely get alot of people killed in WvW moreso than going backwards.

This is my only complaint for this CDI.

I honestly would welcome it with open arms. If sword auto is given the interruptibility it needs, there’d be no need for that extra dodge, and you could simply chain both skills to get the backward leap, then wait for the cooldown, then leap back in.

The advantage that swapping the order would give in return would be added versatility in that not only would it be a nice gap closer, but it could also help provide the ranger with added mobility by giving it an infiltrator’s strike type feel where you can hop in and out of melee range very quickly.

Flytrap.8075:

So… you and a few others have specifically said that you love having a pet around, but at the same time, you want ANet to nerf pet damage and put more of it on to Ranger?

I mean, I’m all in favor of giving Ranger more damage, but I’m just confused why you’d want a pet in the first place if its damage is going to be even more pathetic. It’s entirely counter-intuitive.

I just think it’s hilarious that self-proclaimed pet supporters are looking to move the pet’s damage onto the Ranger.

The pet is meant to be for utility, not just damage. There are other ways to make it useful without making it such a huge portion of the ranger’s damage.

Kilaelya.1420:

Being able to stow in combat is my #1 want. IMO, we don’t need anything to make up for it (such as a buff, etc.). Anet wants Ranger to be a pet class and having a buff would mean we don’t have to be a pet class anymore.

I agree with this. The option to stow your pet in combat should be a convenience, not an advantage.

Swagg.9236:

Black Box.9312:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

While I don’t necessarily like all of your suggestions, Swagg, at least you attempt to propose changes and have put a good amount of effort into this, which is commendable despite what all the people hating on your changes say.

Just wanted to put this here because so many people seem to actively hate you for suggesting changes to various things that they obviously treasure in their current state, instead of recognizing that you’re trying to create an entirely new meta based around more skill builds and less builds that focus on reducing the impact of skill and discussing your suggested changes in that context.

The thing that bothers me is that he’s bringing back these threads when they’re clearly dying out for good reason. The conversation is over; please stop bumping these.

I’ve never heard a single good reason to stop. The people who want me to stop aren’t really arguing anything, but rather they either just express vague complaints and opinions or just go full ad hominem/insult. Only one without resolve would give up after someone walks up to them and delivers baseless insults about one’s contribution. I have resolve.

In any case, [Withdraw] is a cancerous skill (not unlike [Healing Signet] or even [Shelter]), and it needed to be addressed. Would you rather I have made 20 individual threads filled with the trickling ideas that I’ve developed over my time here or would you rather me just make a single thread and bump that instead? Obviously the latter is a much more organized and convenient strategy for expressing ideas.

When a thread is no longer being bumped due to natural conversation, by rule of logic the conversation is no longer active. Because of this, there’s no reason to keep bringing the thread back when people are no longer interested in the conversation at hand.

If you read my previous post, you will see that there is no ad hominem argument. I simply told you that you should stop bumping dead threads.

Harper.4173:

DogCompany.1062:

Harper.4173:

Dungeons were designed to be medium-hard to complete ON release. Not 1+ years after.
You want harder content? Go do fractals at level 30+.

Dungeons are designed in such a way that NO MATTER HOW BAD YOU ARE you will still complete it if you keep trying. That means that a VERY GOOD GROUP will breeze right on through. Regardless of gear – but zerker will make it the fastest.

I am familiar with high level Fractals and my experience tells me that Fractals should be the standard of any Dungeon. In short, shouldn’t Arena Net consider creating, or reconfiguring, more difficult Dungeons in order to avoid such repetitions?

No. Because dungeons are for farming at the moment. Make them more difficult and the majority of players who run them will quit doing them.

And many people who quit doing them would come back again because they would actually be fun and engaging.

Thanks for the update Allie; it’s really nice to be able to see what in this thread has caught your eye specifically and what you guys are talking about behind the scenes. Most of the things in that list seem like really nice ideas, and I’d love to see them in-game sometime in the near future.

P Fun Daddy.1208:

While I don’t necessarily like all of your suggestions, Swagg, at least you attempt to propose changes and have put a good amount of effort into this, which is commendable despite what all the people hating on your changes say.

Just wanted to put this here because so many people seem to actively hate you for suggesting changes to various things that they obviously treasure in their current state, instead of recognizing that you’re trying to create an entirely new meta based around more skill builds and less builds that focus on reducing the impact of skill and discussing your suggested changes in that context.

The thing that bothers me is that he’s bringing back these threads when they’re clearly dying out for good reason. The conversation is over; please stop bumping these.