Guild Wars 2

How to balance classes:

Swap the frequencies of balance updates with that of living story updates.

I agree that the real issue here is stealth in general. There needs to be some sort of tradeoff for the benefit it provides, such as decreased movement speed, increased incoming damage, etc. It essentially needs balance checks that encourage it as a setup and discourage it as an escape.

Until that happens, I’m completely okay with rapid fire tracking through stealth, as stupid as it may be.

The heal and the fury trigger maybe 1/2 – 1 second after the channeling is finished.

witcher.3197:

Black Box.9312:

For as much as I’d love to use shield, there’s just no reason to take it over a focus, ever. Guardian shield is just plain bad.

Tell that to Tage :P Shield is making a comeback along with virtue bunker nowadays.

A good player can play well with a bad weapon, but that doesn’t make the weapon any less of a bad weapon.

Zenith.6403:

Shanks.2907:

I’m not sure if you know this, but falsely reporting posts is an infractable act too. There’s a difference between someone questioning your experience with a class based on the posts you’ve made and someone straight up insulting you.

- Right. Do you see the difference between these statements:

Discussing about the topic:
“Staff #1 deals low damage and is comparable to another profession weapons”
“Guardians have only a couple of viable builds”
“Guardian’s downside is lack of mobility”
“Guardian skills have long cooldowns”

Discussing and attacking the poster:
“OP hasn’t played guardian”
“GET OUT OF FORUMS AND l2P”
“OP just wants someone to agree with him”
“Oh wow another QQ thread!”

The only personal insult I’ve seen in this thread thus far was the one you directed at me, which has since been deleted. The strawman argument you are posing here is not helping your case.

For as much as I’d love to use shield, there’s just no reason to take it over a focus, ever. Guardian shield is just plain bad.

Zenith.6403:

coglin.1867:

Seems a bit of a double standard to create a thread for your thoughts on the matter, then to demand someone else has n rights to express theirs. Clearly you do not want a discussion on the matter. It appears all your wanting are those who agree with you.

- I’ve received nothing but personal attacks along the lines of “do you even play Guardians?” and dismissive texts that have nothing to do with the thread. Yours is quite fitting continuation for that.

It’s not a personal attack to assume that you don’t play the class. It’s an observation based on your clear ignorance of the subject matter.

Guardian currently has very little CC capability. You’re better off going with a hammer on a warrior.

If you like guardian but don’t want to play bunker, try a meditation build. It’s offensively focused and much more fun than a bunker build IMO.

Wait what.

Do you even play guardian?

Pitman.9210:

I would disagree calling it “pretty decent”. It’s just the one that sucks the least.

Pretty much this. At least now it benefits from meditation traits, but it (as well as the tomes) still pales in comparison to even some of our utility skills.

Chicago Jack.5647:

mtpelion.4562:

This would allow you to move around inside the symbol (which you can’t do with the dome), do other things while the symbol persists (which you can’t do with the dome), and trait the symbol to be more effective (which you can’t do with the dome).

Currently you can use the bubble, cancel the cast time, and still move around while the bubble persists. It’s bugged now though to only last 2 seconds instead of its natural 4. The only benefit from going the full channel is having the option of popping it for the heal (which is rarely used as mobility and a dome that prevents damage is far superior to a 1.2k heal).

Apparently that in and of itself is a bug, and is unintentional. Because apparently we’re expected to either do the full channel or get no bubble at all.

Chaith.8256:

Black Box.9312:

Chaith.8256:

Bhawb.7408:

Power creep is bad. If one single field out of every single one is obviously far stronger than all the rest, it should be nerfed. The game has had enough power creep already.

Power creep is the gradual unbalancing of a game due to successive releases of new content.

Fire Fields, the same since 2012.

Power creep is actually when balancing is centered exclusively on the strongest abilities. When everything else is constantly buffed to match the current strongest, it eventually becomes a game of number inflation.

So yes, buffing everything around fire fields would most certainly contribute toward power creep.

You can literally copy paste something from a wiki and not please some people with your definition sometimes. (Which is what just happened.)

Wikis are edited by users, and are thus not always 100% correct.

Chaith.8256:

Bhawb.7408:

Power creep is bad. If one single field out of every single one is obviously far stronger than all the rest, it should be nerfed. The game has had enough power creep already.

Power creep is the gradual unbalancing of a game due to successive releases of new content.

Fire Fields, the same since 2012.

Power creep is actually when balancing is centered exclusively on the strongest abilities. When everything else is constantly buffed to match the current strongest, it eventually becomes a game of number inflation.

So yes, buffing everything around fire fields would most certainly contribute toward power creep.

sorrychief.2563:

guardian with access to alot more soft cc.

THE HORROR.

I lol’d.

And then cried a little bit on the inside.

:(

Amins.3710:

Upping the damage would be ridiculous. It’s not hard to get 6.5k on a knock-down’d target when running w/ an Ele or War.

As it stands, the DPS of ZD is roughly equal to that of the autoattack chain, assuming that all of the projectiles even hit.

It needs either a damage boost, or some sort of offensive utility (i.e. cripple or chill).

PurebladeProductions.4875:

Black Box.9312:

PurebladeProductions.4875:

I have no idea if this would be hard for ArenaNet to make it happen, but how about splitting the current unblockable into Unblockable and Unreflectible and giving our Sword Wave this new unreflectible skill fact?

Being ‘unreflectable’ is already a property of unblockable attacks. Which is why Anet is erroneously making more and more PvE enemies unblockable instead of just reworking reflects like they should have done long ago.

The fact that an unblockable projectile cannot be reflected is already known to me, what I meant was that the current Unblockable should be split into an Unblockable that only circumvents Blocking (Absorption/destruction of projectiles would be included in this, since it’s practically the same function just without trait interaction) and an Unreflectable that only circumvents Reflection.

Current Unblockable: Prevents the attack from being blocked. Prevents the attack from being reflected.
New Unblockable: Prevents the attack from being blocked. Does not prevent the attack from being reflected.
New Unreflectable: Does not prevent the attack from being blocked. Prevents the attack from being reflected.

This would give ArenaNet greater control over which skills they want to be unreflectable, which skills they want to be unblockable and which skills they want to have both properties.
An enemy’s powerful projectile attack could have the property Unreflectable while not having the Unblockable property if ArenaNet wanted it to work that way, instead of giving it the current Unblockable property that functions as both.

Ah okay, I misunderstood.

Kraljevo.2801:

Last but not least, the signet of resolve. Any competent player will annihilate you without shelter. It’s our best heal and arguably one of the best heals in the game. Use it.

I don’t agree with this. If you manage your utilities well, signet of resolve can easily be just as viable as shelter.

I think Anet is too focused on their own bi-weekly content agenda to really pay attention to the fact that their balancing is going directly against the original mantra they stressed pre-release about any class being able to fit any role. Now, obviously some classes are going to be better at certain methods of fulfilling said roles, but it just doesn’t make sense for there to be a class that’s meant to play as a support in a game that isn’t supposed to be defined by a trinity.

PurebladeProductions.4875:

I have no idea if this would be hard for ArenaNet to make it happen, but how about splitting the current unblockable into Unblockable and Unreflectible and giving our Sword Wave this new unreflectible skill fact?

Being ‘unreflectable’ is already a property of unblockable attacks. Which is why Anet is erroneously making more and more PvE enemies unblockable instead of just reworking reflects like they should have done long ago.

I honestly disagree with this. GW2 is different from MMOs in the sense that you have much greater access to pre-emptive, active defenses. Because of this, it becomes more of a game about learning class mechanics and how different combos tend to synergize as well as being able to plan accordingly to mitigate or avoid them.

Take for example the ele’s Churning Earth. It deals massive damage in an aoe, but it also suffers from a long cast time that makes it incredibly easy to avoid. Because of this, enemy players have a massive 3 seconds to pop an instant active defense, such as a blind, block, or dodge, to render the entire skill useless. If we have more skills like this, it will just be a battle of who can go longer without screwing up, which will draw fights out much longer than they need to be.

I like what the guy a couple of posts above said about how it’s more skillful to play proactively as opposed to reactively. Learn the classes, learn the skills, and learn the combos, and you should be able to win just about any evenly-matched fight.

quaniesan.8497:

Tyreal.5230:

Sword #1 – Take away the 3 different hits and projectile status and make it a single hit melee that applies a boon, maybe vulnerability or might like greatsword?

.)

I will have to disagree with that. Being 3 hits is one of the main attraction. It counts 3 times toward the 5th hit for the burning Virtue. It creates at least 3 chances for crit for sigil purpose.

The flaw of the sword AA3 lies in that a) count as projectile attack when you generally in melee when that occurs , and further subject to limitations of projectiles and b) the narrow cone shape that often missses anything that any that flies too high, stay too low or too much to the left/right.

This is kind of how I feel on it too. The 3-hit attack is definitely a plus and is great for things like on-crit procs and VoJ passive. The thing we need to get rid of is the projectile, lack of horizontal cleave, and the general unreliability of it, particularly when attacking something that isn’t targeted.

“Bearbow math”

omfg dying

Ugh. The projectile auto attack absolutely needs to go.

I like the idea of rewarding players for using stealth as a setup instead of as an escape. I’d be all for this.

Focus is 100% superior to shield.

Apolo.5942:

Design precedes Balance, if you kitten up design, balance cant save you.

The design is fine; this game has some of the best combat you’ll find in a PC game, let alone an MMO. But you need both proper design and balance to have a good game.

Apolo.5942:

Booms.2594:

Apolo.5942:

Booms.2594:

ArchonWing.9480:

I don’t play/care about pvp

Guardians:

Great in PvE
Great in wvw >3 people, dominant and mandatory as numbers increase to the point where compositions demand at least 1 guardian per party in zergs
Mediocre at solo roaming wvw though not necessarily hopeless but nothing compares with a thief anyways.
In general the presence of guard stacks benefits guardian greatly due to their low base health.

The underdog IMO is the necromancer, and the class in the worst spot. It is the worst class in pve and while great in large scale wvw tends to be a poor roamer. (Good duelist, but much like the guardian has little in the way of disengage and pursuit)

Note that I judge in relative terms. You can definitely roam on any class but some are just easier than others to get results.

but then it also wins every 1v1 and 2v2 in the game for pvp

If your opponent is are complete kittens, sure why not, thou the same can be said for every other class in the game…

im talking about top (top top top) tier pvp

Sadly design should not be based about what the top 1% can do with it, but what your average joe can.

When you balance around low skill players, the game will virtually play itself. It’s important to balance around high skill play because it sets the bar for others to meet in order to become a strong player.

Booms.2594:

Chaotic.9742:

PvP wise you should only worry about AMAZING necros/engies or condi ranger if you are not aware on how to use condi cleanses appropriately/deal with their kiting. DPS guard is often called skilless due to how powerful a good one can be in 1v1’ing nearly everything.

they wont lose to necros lol

A good power necro is a very tough matchup for a meditation guardian, because proper use of fear and death shroud makes them very resilient to bursts of damage.

How about we rework Bull’s Charge and Rush to actually be able to function as gap closers like intended, and reduce their power as mobility away from the fight. No teleport needed, just reduce the range so that it doesn’t have so much distance to bug out.

Honestly, at this point I’d say that no sort of cooldown reduction is worth not changing the functionality of the skills. They’re just too subpar in comparison to those of focus and even torch for any given situation.

Shield of Judgment is a horrible skill that is never worth taking a shield into battle for. It needs to be reworked to have some sort of blocking functionality, seeing as that is what a shield is meant to do. Perhaps even the defensive counterpart to the more offensive Shield of Wrath on the focus.

Shield of Absorption, on the other hand, is good on paper, but just horrendously implemented. You can choose to either completely disable yourself for half of its 4 second duration to block projectiles, or you can detonate it early for a pitifully low heal at the cost of not being able to use it to block projectiles. I think there are 2 reasonable options to take here: either grant mobility while channeling, similar to the buff engineer shield will be receiving, or just eliminate the channel entirely and have the dome pulse heal per second for everyone inside of it.

Elitist.8701:

Even Hotjoin PvPers are much better than most “Gold” level WvW players. Source: R109 WvW from roaming.

Rank 109 in WvW is nothing. What server are you on where you can make such claims?

Ynna.8769:

Whenever people suggest completely reworking the Shield I feel the need to remind them that the knockback on the Shield is actually really good. The cooldown is just too long and the skill bugs out occasionally.

It’s decent, but I wouldn’t call it good. And even then, that leaves the shield with less effective uses than number of skills, which is pretty kitten pathetic considering that that number of skills is 2.

Buran.3796:

WvW (roaming): useless and hopeless

I disagree entirely. I run a meditation build in WvW and roam just fine. The problem is that I’m pigeonholed into using traveler’s runes just to be able to keep up, which limits the potential that could be better suited with a more offensive rune set. And that’s not even counting the fact that guardians don’t have any sort of soft CC aside from a small handful of immobilizes that don’t synergize well with each other.

Both nice changes, but the Bane Signet buff wasn’t needed and won’t make much of a difference. The Retreat change is much more welcome, but it still does nothing for the demographic of guardian players who need the extra speed boost the most, because Retreat is generally not used in offensive roaming builds.

Keksmuffin.1450:

The pve meta build is using it, the 5% more damage and the power you get from going into zeal are reason enough to take this trait if all you’re looking for is damage.

And well… No decent build would ever have a lot of healing power, greatsword and 4 points in zeal so why bother with buffing the heal?

The idea is that nobody is using it for the healing it provides, because the healing it provides is virtually negligible.

Guardian signets, spirit weapons, and basically everything else that isn’t bunker or meditations all say hi.

Immobilize should not prevent dodging. That is what CC is for.

Distaste.4801:

MailMail.6534:

We’re currently in the most balanced state of the game we’ve ever see.

Every class has at least two unique and highly effective builds for all types of spvp. idk what there is to complain about.

WvW is a different story, and PvE is all dps all around.

You think that because “every” class has 1-2 builds for SPvP that it’s the most balanced it’s ever been? Sorry, but that’s just wrong, every class had a similar number of builds at launch. The fact that the number of builds hasn’t increased is only a testament to the incompetence of the class balance team. In fact I would argue that due to how poorly the class balance team changes things that the gap between viable builds and trash builds is now greater than it has ever been, meaning balance is worse. The only real “success” that the class balance team has had is bringing the warrior up from last picked, but then we’d have to mention how long it’s taken for them to nerf them down to a reasonable level from the overbuff.

Honestly, this is one of the worst balanced MMO’s that I’ve played. The number of skills, traits, and weapons that simply aren’t used or even viable is just incredibly sad. The 2-3 man class balance team needs a lot more manpower and shouldn’t be relying on SPvP teams to balance the game for them. It certainly shouldn’t take 6+ months for a class balance patch where most of the items are database value changes.

Yeah, I’m gonna have to agree with this. Anet gives off a strong impression that they don’t legitimately care about balancing at all, because “meh, at least it’s not broken”. 6 months is WAY too much time between balancing iterations, and many of the balancing changes end up becoming the laughing stock of the community (Kindled Zeal, anyone?). It just kills me inside to see a game with so much potential waste away by a seemingly incompetent development team that is so out of touch with their own game as well as the people who play it.

Cynz.9437:

Black Box.9312:

Cynz.9437:

everyone is so fast to jump on L2P train, then plz go ahead show me video of how thief beats guard of same skill level, especially when enemy team has 3 of them

Play something that isn’t a zerker melee build. Medi guard counters other glass cannons. People have already listed plenty of builds that can beat one, and yet you insist on playing one of the few builds weak against it and then cry nerf when you can’t win. Nobody needs to show you a video because you are the one who needs to prove your claims.

so yeah lets all play bunkers, screw the build diversity and classes who can’t build bunker… yeah great solution

Yes, non-zerker = bunker.

Geez, sounds like you really DO need to learn to play the game.

Cynz.9437:

everyone is so fast to jump on L2P train, then plz go ahead show me video of how thief beats guard of same skill level, especially when enemy team has 3 of them

Play something that isn’t a zerker melee build. Medi guard counters other glass cannons. People have already listed plenty of builds that can beat one, and yet you insist on playing one of the few builds weak against it and then cry nerf when you can’t win. Nobody needs to show you a video because you are the one who needs to prove your claims.

Why are you specifically looking for a dungeon build where the only requirement is that it’s non-zerker, when it’s been proven that zerker is far and away the most efficient setup for dungeons?

Almost seems like you’re plotting to troll pug groups with such a request.

Cynz.9437:

vincecontix.1264:

Op all things have counters and different roles to play, also I see you complaining a lot lately.

what else are you suppose to do on forums lol?

besides, since devs apprently decided to listen to every single QQ about thieves i will be QQing about other classes so they get “thief” threatment

i am tired of “adapting” while every other class get brainless builds

Okay, would you like to show us a demonstration of just how brainless a medi guard is? Solo, of course. You of all people should know that such a brainless build wouldn’t need any sort of assistance to take people down.

Necrotize.2974:

Except it was meant to do that from the start and it did for quite a while. Only recently does it not IIRC. If you are say, a S/P thief, you probably don’t go into stealth, meaning you rely on evades and dazes/stuns. Stability completely negates your stuns, so thieves need a way to deal with classes that can achieve long duration of stability. I fail to see though how a single steal that strips stability would completely invalidate stability. Just wait till they steal, then stab up. You say the thief isn’t tactical for having steal strip stability, but isn’t it just as passive to pop stability as soon as you see a S/P thief and watch their bursts fizzle until stability is gone? Steal prioritizing stability and aegis is important to the class due to the nature of their attacks. Stealth attacks, venoms, stuns on first hits or chain skills reliant on the first skill hitting all are severely hindered by blocks or invulnerability( although I personally think invulnerability is fine and nothing needs to go through it) and can mean the difference between a burst succeeding or failing.

Medi guards typically don’t have stability, so I don’t understand why there is an argument over this.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

By the power of Grey Skull!!!!!!!

MYAAH!

I’m not even going to mention how silly the 5 minute cooldown would be, but honestly, I agree with the idea of a movement speed reduction while in stealth. There needs to be some sort of tradeoff for the disengage power that stealth provides, and a lower movement speed would be a perfect way to encourage the use of stealth as preparation instead of using it as an “oh kitten” mechanic.

Cynz.9437:

thief changes:
- bountiful theft should prioritize stability and aegis, right now it completely ignores aegis
- every 3rd attack on thief AA chain should go through the block/invul

guard changes:
- contemplation of purity should convert 3 conditions only, not unlimited
- purging flames CD increased by 5 sec
- fiery wrath should be moved to master tier at least
- focused mind should be moved to more damage oriented trait lane
- smite conditions needs it’s CD increased by 5-10 sec
- very arguable: virtrues should only grant teammates buffs if guardian traited for (similar to venom share)

Your proposed changes are a joke. Please don’t talk as if you know guardian enough to be able to discuss balancing for it, because you clearly know very little.

Zaix.2480:

So what’s the hardcounter to dps guard?

Virtually anything that can kite and/or sustain burst. It’s really not hard to kill a medi guard; just play something other than a glass cannon.

Torch is a good offhand for scepter in small scale PvP fights, particularly in offensive builds like meditation burst. The 4 skill is a high damage ranged nuke that works well when paired with the scepter immobilize.

Torch is good if you don’t need the blind or block from focus.

That being said, in the vast majority of situations the blind or block from focus is superior to the extra DPS torch can provide.

There’s just too much downtime on them for a full-on spirit weapon build to be competitive, especially considering the significant trait investment (12/14 points I think?) required to maximize their potential. It doesn’t matter how strong they are when they’re up, because there’s still the fact that you’re going to be left defenseless when they’re gone.

Prince.7198:

Black Box.9312:

Prince.7198:

TrOtskY.5927:

Guardian will never be as good and diverse as other classes until Anet FINALLY realises their mistake and decides to actually give the class some mobility.

What mistake? Guardian is a bunker class, their design is not to be very mobile. It seems like you want a GOD MODE profession, which would be lame cz everyone would then roll it.

Saying that guardian is a ‘bunker class’ goes against the idea of any class fulfilling any role. I like guardian, but I don’t want to bunker with one. There’s nothing wrong with being able to have some build diversity, and I’d much rather have a squishy, mobile damage dealer than a tanky bunker that just stands in place for entire matches.

Hahaha any class any roll, ever seen a thief hold a node vs 3 ppl bashing in to him? Same for mesmer? With that statement anet just was refering to selfsustaining classes that do not need a dedicated healer /dedicated tank but each have their own mechanics to deal damage /stay alive. As goes to roles in tpvp, not all classes can do all roles as effective. You haev build diversity (stop trying to go off topic) and you haev a squishy guardian that can deal tons of dps and has teleports (judge intervention) and sowrd no 2. But you can not expect to haev the mobility of a thief, with heavy armor and tons of virtue heals/blocks/invulnerability. For as far as my opinion goes, the two teleports listed above are already way too much.

Your comparison is irrelevant, because by design no class should be able to triumph in a 1v3 against 3 players of similar skill level. You’re also missing out on the fact that guardian is no longer far and away the bunker class. Classes like warrior and engineer are now vying for that spot that guardians used to hold alone, and we’re being left to stagnate because Anet isn’t giving us any other options to work with.

Nobody here wants a ‘thief with heavy armor and tons of heals/blocks/invulnerability’. We just want to be able to play a guardian that can actually kill people rather than just one that can stand in a circle and bounce around it until your staff 4 is off cooldown.