If you are roaming, GS is a great tool. The build Black Box mentioned is super fun, but lacks sustain and AoE.
GS doesn’t provide any more sustain in terms of survivability, and in terms of sustained DPS sword and scepter actually outclass it. As for a lack of aoe, all you really need is good target prioritization. In WvW there’s no need for point control, which is really the only thing GS excels at given guardian’s current lack of soft CC.
I might be a bit biased, but charrdian ftw.
The cooldown reductions should make shield a little more viable for bunker builds at least, but I was hoping for some sort of changes to the abilities themselves.
Oh well. Still a victory, I suppose.
Can we not continue on this route of fixing problems with traits that give effects that should already be present intrinsically? Nobody took Read the Wind seriously until they added an attack speed increase because projectiles should already be reliably fast by default.
0/6/6/1/1 or 2/6/6/0/0
Sword/focus and scepter/torch
Valkyrie gear with traveler/pack runes and hybrid zerk/valk trinkets. Air and fire sigils if going for the 1 in honor, replace one of them with energy if you’re going for zeal instead.
You can use GS if you want, but in my opinion it’s pretty lacking in WvW because point control is unnecessary and the burst is too easy to avoid.
Just don’t fight condi thieves. Dire p/d is a stupid build, especially with perplexity runes, and anyone running it isn’t worth your time.
I hadn’t considered the possibility that fixing shield may interfere with something new in an expansion but now you mention it, that’s just another good reason to not change existing content within a new content expansion.
Let’s be honest with each other here. We might not like shield the way it works, but for what it does do, it’s not broken.
… What does it do other than troll people in EoTM? Bring it on your Bunker in PVP to bounce people out of the node every 40s?
The idea that it could be relied on for anything is absurd.
Sure, but it does what it’s intended to do. I’ve not played an MMO where the dev’s priority is to fix things that are intended over broken, buggy, etc, especially in an expansion intended to showcase new content. It’s certainly a hard sell to claim we need this off hand option to work differently because players find little value in it. Based on what I’ve seen as historical, I would say it’s almost an irrelevant argument and Anet behaviour doesn’t seem to be too far from that truth either.
It doesn’t matter if it exhibits its intended behavior. Making something work properly is bug fixing. Balancing is going beyond making it work properly to ensure that it is a viable option. Guardian shield needs proper balancing, not just bug fixing.
There is a reason the meta build is 2/1/6/1/4
There is also a reason the build isn’t really a part of the meta at the highest levels in pvp and the issue is not damage it has plenty of it
These two statements contradict each other. It’s either meta, or it’s not. It can’t be “the meta of a non-meta build”.
As for the rest of what you said, I do perfectly fine with my radiance build without 4 in virtues, and every player I’ve killed with it proves that it’s far more than just a gimmick.
Oh gosh, this is rich. OP have you tried playing a burst meditation build?
I can not imagine Medi Guard being viable in this meta without 4 in Virtues especially considering it is not even viable WITH 4 in Virtues
6/6 type of builds are just a gimmick – If you do not kill your opponent in one burst you are essentially dead you can not recover from any pressure especially condi pressure everyone is running Doom/Geomancy and has Burning too
Ironically enough, I find the opposite to be true. VoR has too high of a cooldown for it to be effective against a full condi engi or necro, and no other class (in terms of sPvP builds, at least) has enough condi pressure to require it when you’re already running MF with Smite Condition and CoP.
The extra critical chance from radiance, particularly with sword and scepter when using RHS, also makes the build much less reliant on the initial burst, because your subsequent hits are more likely to crit for extra damage.
I run a 0/6/6/1/1 with sw/f and sc/t. It’s more single-target oriented, but what a lot of people don’t realize is that single target combat can be very beneficial even in group fights as long as you know how to focus and prioritize properly. I’ve just never really thought that the standard 2/1/6/1/4 really has enough of that burst potential, and GS is just too easy for a skilled player to avoid IMO.
If you open on a ranger with your sword 2 skill, it will blind his next attack, which will likely be an attempted point blank shot. From there, you will have the upper hand as long as you stay in range, which should be fairly easy to do. If he does manage to knock you back, a simple JI will put you right back in his face.
An illusion will never attack while moving. Look for whoever is actively trying to avoid your attacks and plan accordingly. If the mesmer enters stealth, use context to determine where they will likely reappear and keep the pressure up as soon as they are visible.
Also, don’t be afraid to kill clones/phantasms if the mesmer is in stealth. The mesmer will not deal damage to you directly while they are in hiding, so use it as a window of opportunity to remove other threats.
What i see here is that Anet tryed to balance colldowns over classes to be similiar yet they do not work anymore becouse how game fight (un)balance has changed over time.
This is the problem that has been plaguing the guardian class all along. The meta of today is much, much different from what it was 2 years ago, yet the guardian as a class has remained largely unchanged. We’ve received very few major skill changes and even fewer trait reworks (with most of the latter being absolute jokes, i.e. Kindled Zeal).
Guardian was a well-balanced class at launch. At this point, it’s become very stagnant and is in great need of some TLC from the balance team.
If you want to use a crappy weapon, then fine. But if you go looking for builds anyone worth their salt is gonna tell you that you should ditch it for a focus. It just seems highly counter-intuitive to go around asking for a good build but then constraining it to your bad requirements. If you want to run a bad build, at least have the sense to make it yourself.
WoW dude. Maybe you need to learn the reason why ppl say that Shield is a crappy weapon BEFORE try to lecture ppl.
In that particular case shield won’t decrease the effectiveness of his build by much. Ya it will be of limited usefulness, but focus is not a big important part of a PvE build anyway. Like i already said, this won’t hurt its dps. He will only replace a blind/regen pull skill by some protection and lose a block. That will impact him, not really his party at all. Its like he’s asking for playing a staff which will hurt his team by decreasing his dps by a lot. A shield or a focus that doesn’t really matter for the party. Ya focus will give better utilities, but that’s all. IT WON’T IMPACT HIS PARTY MUCH IF AT ALL.
I know exactly why shield is bad. It provides minimal benefits with too much downtime. I don’t need other people to tell me what I already know from thousands of hours of experience with the class.
As for DPS, focus does it immensely better. The blind from focus 4 provides multiple stacks of vulnerability on a standard radiance build, which contributes to party DPS. Focus 5 can be used when the block is not necessary for survival for a very large chunk of burst damage while also being able to use other skills while it is active.
Shield does neither of these things, and lacks both offensive and defensive capabilities that focus can provide.
The guy can do what he wants with his build, but there are plenty of pug groups that won’t hesitate to call him out for making a poor choice in running a shield. I’m just doing it ahead of time in hopes that maybe he’ll save himself the trouble.
(edited by Black Box.9312)
The cooldown is too high for me to ever find a reason to want it on my bar.
I know shields suck. Keep that in mind when posting please.
Well then what’s the purpose of asking for a build that uses it?
For the same reason that not every single person plays warrior.
Not every single person plays warrior because there are optimal compositions that don’t involve playing warrior.
Guardian shield has no use in an optimal composition because it is the worst weapon in the game.
And yet people play classes that aren’t ‘optimal ’ in such situations. Guess what dude, I’m just trying to have fun. From what I’ve been hearing shields being the worst, dont make them nonviable. Ill be enjoying myself doing that then, you can go ahead and play what people tell you is the best way to play.
If you want to use a crappy weapon, then fine. But if you go looking for builds anyone worth their salt is gonna tell you that you should ditch it for a focus. It just seems highly counter-intuitive to go around asking for a good build but then constraining it to your bad requirements. If you want to run a bad build, at least have the sense to make it yourself.
I know shields suck. Keep that in mind when posting please.
Well then what’s the purpose of asking for a build that uses it?
For the same reason that not every single person plays warrior.
Not every single person plays warrior because there are optimal compositions that don’t involve playing warrior.
Guardian shield has no use in an optimal composition because it is the worst weapon in the game.
I know shields suck. Keep that in mind when posting please.
Well then what’s the purpose of asking for a build that uses it?
0/0/6/6/2 is a good build frame for what you’re looking for, but consider changing out some of the traits and skills.
For Valor, scrap Defender’s Flame. It’s really not a worthwhile trait unless you’re going for a hybrid build, in which case you would likely be running offensive gear and meditations anyway. Suggestions would be either Purity if you need the extra condition removal, or Retributive Armor to up your crit chance so that you can get that vigor that will allow you to dodge and heal more often. Also, Monk’s Focus is really only viable for full on meditation builds. This build would be much better off with Altruistic Healing, since you’ll be providing team support through frequent boon application anyway.
In Honor, instead of Pure of Heart consider taking 2 Handed Mastery. The reduced cooldown of your staff 4 skill alone should be enough to make up for this, but along with that you’ll also be able to access your GS burst more frequently to be more effective in combat.
Finally, it’s my opinion that Unscathed Contender is, for the most part, a gimmick. Generally the only time you’d reliably have the bonus would be at the beginning of a fight, and since this is not a burst build, you wouldn’t gain much from it. The second variant of the build with Vengeful is a much better choice.
For skills, I personally don’t like Healing Breeze. It requires you to navigate behind your team and ensure that you’re going to hit them with it, which just doesn’t happen when you’re meant to be at the forefront of the fight. I like both Shelter and Signet of Resolve for different reasons, so I’d whichever one of the two you’d prefer would be best.
And finally, don’t bother with Merciful Intervention. A build like this almost requires Stand Your Ground to be effective, because the party stability is just far too valuable to your team and will do more to secure a kill or an escape than an extra heal once every 50 seconds. On top of that, the boon application to your team would proc AH, which would help to keep you alive longer. Stick to staff 4, dodges, and VoR for your party heals.
Maybe something like this would do the trick for what you’re aiming for: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQJARWl0Apfn1CxVI8DNRChkVRs/Eq01XCcA-TJxHwADeCALLDob/BAXCAA
(edited by Black Box.9312)
You’ll want to use either a zerker amulet or a carrion one, depending on whether you want to go for full burst or a hybrid build.
And like the guys above me said, there’s no combining of stat sets in sPvP, because your entire set of stats (other than runes) is determined by a single amulet.
Healway was nerfed quite a while ago and doesn’t deal effective DPS solo.
If it were up to me there wouldn’t be any invulnerability skills that allow you to use other skills while under its effects.
But hey, if I were the one balancing this game there would be a LOT of things different.
I will say, however, is that my friend is using a 61601 condi/hybrid (or it’s equivilant) build of mine and it took her to the top 250 in the leaderboards (or what ever put her in Llama gift status)
it’s just so hard to see this build doing well. your friend has zero condi clearance. you can get to top 250 by just playing a lot.
I run 6/2/6/0/0 and have no trouble with basic condi removal. Condi build necros and engis are trouble, but then those are troublesome for any offensive guardian build.
Well no offense buf if you have problems with engis I won’t believe you that you’re doing halfway decent with this build. There is barely anything that counters condi engi harder than this hybrid/condi guard build.
I was just making an example about how an offensively built guardian generally struggles against builds that have a high condition damage output. And to be fair, a good engi will know how to exploit a hybrid guardian’s weakness to disables as well as condi pressure.
I will say, however, is that my friend is using a 61601 condi/hybrid (or it’s equivilant) build of mine and it took her to the top 250 in the leaderboards (or what ever put her in Llama gift status)
it’s just so hard to see this build doing well. your friend has zero condi clearance. you can get to top 250 by just playing a lot.
I run 6/2/6/0/0 and have no trouble with basic condi removal. Condi build necros and engis are trouble, but then those are troublesome for any offensive guardian build.
While I admire the effort to think of a build that’s a little bit outside the box, the fact is that guardians simply don’t have the proper tools to make a decap build that’s comparable to the likes of engi or warrior.
Mhh i am the only one that likes the aoe knockback on shield?
It may only be me but i find it the most useful thing that shield gives, though the rest is kinda meh.The aegis on 4 would be an good idea for improving the weapon.
The knockback is good, but the fact that it’s locked behind a 40 second cooldown on a weapon that has pretty much nothing else useful means that the costs of using the shield far outweighs the (singular) benefit.
You need power for the build to work. A pure condition build is not viable on a guardian.
The hybrid guardian has been a thing since Amplified Wrath was added. The only reason why it’s as effective as it is right now is because people are just now starting to realize that the build exists, and they still don’t quite yet know how to effectively counter it.
It’s mostly just a fad, essentially. It’ll go out of style once people learn how to fight it.
Go sword/focus and run meditations.
As much as I’d love to run shield on my guardian, it has the worst weapon skillset in the game, hands down.
Is the healing really that pitiful? I mean traited Smite Condition heals for approx 125 hp/sec (2000hp with a 16sec cd).
If cleaving 3 mobs/enemies you get 75hp per swing and you swing twice per second so 150 hp per second. Thats better than Smite Condition healing and more than Passive Virtue of Resolve. If you are clearing camps in WvW or fighting in a Raid/Zerg battle you can easily cleave 3 enemies.
MF heals also do not have an on-hit requirement and are burst heals. You’re taking a measurement based on the best-case scenario, which almost never happens because you’re not going to be hitting every attack every second, let alone on 3 targets. Beyond this, there’s also the fact that ZB heals are dependent on you being in melee range and you must be attacking to benefit from it, which leaves you vulnerable because you aren’t healing when taking defensive action (i.e. dodging).
Rule #1: Don’t use shield. Ever.
Trade it for focus. Focus 4 provides condi cleanse, anyway, which seems to be one of your primary goals.
If you’re going to take ZB, take it for the damage. The healing is pitiful.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQRAsd7flsApcoVDxbI8DNR8QZVHUdAMBP61/wMkDA-TJRHwAf2fAZZABnEAAPBAA
This is the one I run. It’s based on the passive application of VoJ; don’t activate it and just keep applying as many hits as you can as quickly as possible.
I love all these condi Guardian threads. Been hearing for two years how bad it is.
Because up until Amplified Wrath it WAS bad. Even now, the most effective condition build you can get is actually a hybrid.
It’s more convenient for me to not have to carry around 4 different armor sets depending on what I want to do. And also some people just like to have multiple characters of their favorite class.
I don’t really see what the problem is with that.
There is no problem . im just finding the convenience argument not so convincing. I can swap gears and traits faster than it takes to go back to the character select screen, change toons and then having to Waypoint to wherever i am meant to be. Even worse if you happen to be in WvW (where i spend 80% of my time) when there is a long queue to get in. If you swap toons you have to queue again (which lately has been taking over 10 min)
Also carrying multiple sets has never been a problem, just get nice big bags.
But again its not a problem. People can of course do what they want. I just see no actual “convenience” benefit to having multiple toons of the same class in this game except for the pleasure of having diff races/gender etc which is totally fine of course.
The fact that you brought it up as an issue suggests that you have a problem with it, even if you don’t outwardly realize that you do. Some people just have all of the classes that they want maxed and like to have different characters for different purposes.
Oh boy, another person who cries nerf when they clearly don’t know the build they are complaining about.
i have just one…heck i only have one level 80 toon. lol
But seriously how hard can it possibly be to swap traits and gear around. I do that while running between fights! hmm shall i be staff/hammer or Gs./hammer. quick change….
ok i was in zerg so i was AH Frontline build now im off for a bit of small group/solo roaming. 30 seconds to switch traits and gear and im now a Medi guard.
It’s more convenient for me to not have to carry around 4 different armor sets depending on what I want to do. And also some people just like to have multiple characters of their favorite class.
I don’t really see what the problem is with that.
everyone has to have a charr guardian
I made a charrdian before it was cool.
Black box I seriously doubt they IGNORE it. As I said they probably read through it. However from my perspective red posts mearly attract every kitten troll in the game. I dont see why they should HAVE to post in a forum that insults them more than actually offers constructive criticism.
Not only that, most forums of video games are meant for player-to-player communication. Yes, at times a developer might post something as it is a convenient centralized place where to provide information to players, but it’s not the intent of the forum.
The sticky has since been removed, but the original intention of this forum was for suggestions and feedback between the devs and the players. Any sort of attempts at direct communication with topics related to balancing were relayed to this forum. So it was definitely meant for more than just ‘player-to-player communication’.
While I agree that these would be more useful than the current iterations of the skills, having drawbacks to them just feels like half-buffs.
Guardian shield doesn’t need half-buffs, it is currently the worst weapon in the game and needs substantial buffs.
Pff. The devs stopped interacting with us because we tend to be a bunch of self intitled kittens. The decent posts get burried in the kittening posts where people dont exactly have anything USEFUL to say. I wouldn’t respond either. Hell Id see even reading this forum (which they have proven they do) as a punishment reserved for whoever kittened up that week. Becuase I doubt ANYONE enjoys half the mindless garbage people lay at Anets feet and expect them to pick up.
Then ignore the bad posts while interacting properly with the constructive ones. There’s just no excuse for ignoring a medium that is designated for developer feedback, no matter how many bad apples have to be sifted through to find the worthwhile ideas and criticism.
Well, this forum WAS good when there was actual dev feedback and the constructive input was actually put to use…
… But, as it seems to be with almost everything on these forums, the devs just decide to stop interacting with us. It’d be nice to at least be told why this is the case, so that we don’t have to assume that it’s out of pure apathy.
I’d say that you shouldn’t jump headfirst into a berserker build. Get a little bit of defensive gear to use while you learn the fights, and then slowly transition over once you know the encounters well enough to be able to avoid getting hit.
The problem is that it is assumed that a guardian will have alternative heals built into their spec, so to compensate our primary heal skills are set behind higher cooldowns than the other classes.
The issue with this, however, is that it forces guardian builds to take either AH or MF as sustain to compensate. It is, in a sense, begging the question.
Not to say that this game doesn’t need balance work, but this seems more like a player issue on his part than any sort of balance problem either way.
Unfortunately with the current state of the guardian class, in sPvP you’re going to have to choose to play either a tanky role or a DPS role. There isn’t a very efficient middle ground.
For a tanky build I’d recommend running a staff build with shouts and probably AH. For DPS, a burst meditation build featuring GS, sword, or scepter would probably be best.
The Guardian is in a really good place right now.
Can you not
Irony is a peculiar thing, huh?
Huh. I guess that one flew over your head. Oh well, not my problem.
OP, I’m assuming you’re talking about a medi hybrid guardian, which is NOT a full condi build.