There simply is no support ele in competitive PvE.
KK, I know this is off-topic but what in the name of all that is Holy is “competitive PvE”?
I mean, isn’t all PvE competitive? It is you and your party versus the A.I. after all.
Just wondering as I have never seen this term used before.
Thanks.
Competitive PvE is a joke, to be honest. The game’s AI isn’t intelligent enough for there to be any genuine competition.
Considering the buffs meditation guardian got recently, it would seem Anet is becoming aware of the situation and will reconsider the other side.
To be honest I wouldn’t really say that they were all that significant as far as buffs go. The change to fury on medi becoming AoE for allies is a greater buff than the renewed focus change IMO, and that wasn’t even mentioned in the patch notes, let alone the ready up stream.
(edited by Black Box.9312)
There have been 2 years worth of changes to other classes while guardian has been ‘in a good place’. The class has stagnated significantly, and now it’s finally really starting to show.
Here’s to hoping that Anet will finally give us some genuine love instead of some silly spirit weapon tweaks.
The trait isn’t necessarily useless so much as signets themselves are. Like spirit weapons, signet builds have never really found a place in any meta. Unlike spirit weapons, however, Anet still hasn’t taken notice of this and done anything about it.
Shield just isn’t good. Don’t use it until they buff it (if they ever realize how badly it needs to be buffed). Mace is good for bunker builds and in some dungeons and fractals it can be useful as well, but in PvE you would still be building for DPS even with a mace.
Glass medi guard is definitely possible in WvW. You might not wanna go full zerker, but I roam on my medi guard all the time and I only use valk armor.
As for the build, it looks pretty solid but you’re gonna have a difficult time keeping up with mobile enemies. I’d definitely recommend JI over MI for that reason; the heal from MI isn’t really going to mean much if you can’t stick to the opponent.
Against a brain dead opponent, maybe. But you’re not gonna beat anyone intelligent with a rabid signet build condi guardian.
Guess that wasn’t about pvp huh? I’m not trying to make a fool out of you or anything, I’m just wondering why you’re posting misinformation and then fly away and don’t care anymore.
That statement was in reference to PvP. Not 1v1s, not sPvP, just PvP in general. I’m not posting any ‘misinformation’.
At this point you’re just attacking a strawman. I mentioned nothing about 1v1s in PvP, or anything about what I was talking about being in reference to sPvP in particular. You also fail to take into account the idea of players having varying skill levels, which I already mentioned previously. So fine, keep posting in attempts to make a fool out of me. It’s not working, and I no longer care.
It depends on what type of build you’re trying to go for. Running soldier’s gear on a meditation guardian isn’t going to do much for you. You’d be better off running valkyrie gear and investing more into radiance.
You won’t solo lupi either. Well, it’s worth trying, but you’ll have far more difficulty than a real build.
Soloing is entirely different from base PvE. Dungeons weren’t built for solo runs.
Also, there are plenty of videos of players doing Lupi solos using suboptimal builds. My point still stands.
I still won’t use it because I find hammer too slow of a weapon to be effective for the intended primary purpose of the trait, which is to grant the ability to keep up with the enemy.
It’s pretty clear at this point that Anet doesn’t want guardian shield to be any good, so you might as well just use focus instead.
Guess what? you can run anything in pvp and win as long as you know what you’re doing.
Against a brain dead opponent, maybe. But you’re not gonna beat anyone intelligent with a rabid signet build condi guardian.
Torch 4 is a dps gain over focus on single target, I use it for abom solos. Apart from that, it’s not a good weapon and there’s no reason to take it over focus.
I’m not talking about PvE. You can run anything in PvE and win as long as you know what you’re doing.
Even torch is garbage.
I disagree. Torch 4 is an excellent 1200 range nuke that synergizes very well with scepter.
It’s mentioned in the tooltip for the trait, so I doubt it’s a bug. Ninja buff is more likely.
Huge? In caps? You do realize how much 240 radius actually is?
Do you realize how substantial having a group of players rush a point or target with fury is over just one? The radius is irrelevant because you can plan accordingly to compensate for it.
Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this yet, but Focused Mind (X trait in Valor) now grants 4 seconds of fury in a 240 radius to up to 5 allies upon meditation use. This is a HUGE buff; not sure why it wasn’t mentioned in the ready up, let alone the patch notes.
I also would LOVE to have a sword/shield build on my guardian… But sadly guardian shield is among the worst weapons in the game, and now that you can’t cancel the channel while maintaining the dome anymore I simply cannot for the life of me convince myself that looking cool is worth having such a terrible offhand.
Meditation guardian is a glass build that counters other glass builds. How do you beat it? Well, every passing second in a fight decreases the medi guard’s chance of winning, so simply outlasting them and whittling them down should do the trick quite nicely.
What, so guardians aren’t SUPPOSED to be able to be offensively built?
Give me a break, OP. This game was originally made with the premise that no class would be restricted to a specific role. This whole stigma of guardian being ‘meant to be support’ goes completely against that and is the whole reason why the class has stagnated on the balance front in the first place.
Medi guard was buffed where it didn’t need it. People are complaining because it’s extremely annoying to fight, even when played by mediocre people, just like d/d ele.
It still can’t kill anyone reasonably smart because the burst is too easy to avoid. But now it lasts even longer with the extra heal and faster virtue reset so eventually it will win through attrition, even with a damage-oriented amulet.
Instead, they should reduce the healing on Monk’s Focus so they can make it better at well-executed offense.
Win through attrition?
I thought we were talking about meditation guardian here.
You can dodge pretty much the whole thing with a single dodge. It’s really not that difficult.
Well maybe if we stop using it at all Anet might take a look at it and make it something worth while. I kinda doubt it though.
People were using it in the first place?
For the past 2 years people have managed to figure out how to play the game just fine with the way it was originally. This ‘new player experience’ change just feels like a direct insult to the intelligence level of the average MMO gamer.
ArenaNet’s postrelease team has been so incredibly negligent with what this game actually needs. Now I’ve got a PS4 and I’m playing Destiny. I really wish I could say that I’m sad to have to move on. This game has so much potential. But the masterminds at Anet have just repeatedly dropped the ball over and over again, and I’m simply no longer interested.
The shield was op so they nerfed it!
Shield of Absorption
•Fixed a bug that caused this skill’s projectile absorption to persist after the skill was cancelled or interrupted.That’s actually really disappointing for me because I used that bug a lot, and it’s been around since day one.
Wait… Really?
Of ALL the things they could have done to guardian shield, they nerfed the one ‘bug’ that actually made the skill not utter garbage.
G kittening G and goodnight.
Why are you always demanding proof from others, when you don’t even use evidence to support your own assertions?
Well thanks for asking. Although I have already answered this, I do not mind assiting you my friend. For starters, it is because they are making the initial claims with nothing to support them. Secondly, I, and others, have posted the proof on the other 27 threads on this topic. If you guys wish to continue along with the inaccurate knowledge that is fine with me. If you do not, you will scroll back a page or two and read it.
They are listing off their personal experiences. Coming in here and saying “You’re an idiot and you’re wrong” doesn’t win you the argument and just makes you look like an kitten .
Guardian isn’t master of anything, it does everything average.
Guardian isn’t excelling at anything.
Other professions can do what guardian can just as good if not better.I disagree…they are the best at team support…or used to be at least.
This is the purpose of the class. Anet should work on improving or adpating how they can do it. Not on making them bursty selfish players like thieves or wars.
Pigeonholing the class to a single, ally-dependent role is the whole reason why the class is in such a ‘meh’ spot to begin with. You even touch upon it yourself: Guardian was a really strong class at launch, but that was two years ago. Other classes have gotten many much needed QoL changes and can now compete for that one role that we were so good at, and now because of this guardian has become all but obsolete.
1. condition builds are broken in wvw in multiple different ways
Prove it. Your making a definitive claim while offering absolutely no facts or math to back up your claim. yet there are 17 threads full of posters who have linked videos and done mathematical breakdowns that disprove your claim.
this is something that has long been agreed upon by most everyone.
Prove it as well. Personally, I feel like this is one of the worst toxicities on the entire forums community here, is when poster claim to speak for the entire populaiton and claim to know what everyone feels across all 76+ servers.
Why are you always demanding proof from others, when you don’t even use evidence to support your own assertions?
I’m tired of my favorite class being dependent on allies to win. Therefore, I completely disagree with any claim you make about how guardians are supposed to be based around group play.
Diferent game modes, diferent builds.
I think its not that big problem. You cant win the whole game with one build
The problem is there professions without place in certain game modes
That’s exactly what I just said. The problem isn’t that different builds are required for different game modes. It’s that that key fact is completely neglected in the balance process for this game, which is why you have skills, builds, and classes that are really strong in sPvP and completely useless anywhere else, or vice versa.
The meta behind each game mode is far too different for there to be a “one build fits all”, unfortunately. But those three threads linked above provide some good insight into the types of builds that would work well for what you’ll need them for.
I don’t really see how the argument of high level tPvP fits in here. This game’s tPvP is based on point capture and has very little to do with outright killing the enemy as opposed to getting them off of the point as quickly as possible and keeping them from taking you off of it. The fact that the entirety of the game is balanced around this game mode is the reason why the balancing is in shambles like this in the first place, and doesn’t really justify any sort of issues with the condition system.
However, who is to say that a balance based on killing would be a “better choice”?
I mean, sure it’s the more common one, but hardly because so many MMOs tried every option so far, is it now? :PWhy isn’t a balance based on flag capture better? Or based on control of mobile siege vehicles? Absurd examples in a way, but why is a balanced based on hardpoint domination inherently supposed to be bad?
Instead of, you know, smallscale PvP in a class-based RPG just being a terrible idea to begin with and that invalidating any further balance attempts?
Because the core aspect of where the balancing matters is within the combat. Therefore if you balance for anything other than the combat itself, you are not going to achieve proper balance. Guardian players, for example, have been told for the past two years that they’ve been ‘in a good place’. However, the class is really only in a good place as a bunker/support, and other builds that are more focused on winning fights over holding points have been largely ignored despite being in need of some QoL changes. It doesn’t matter how good you are at bunkering in PvE, because holding a point over the AI isn’t going to accomplish anything.
So basically, the idea here is that the combat is really the universal mechanic of all game modes. Therefore it only makes sense to balance the game around the combat itself, rather than mixing in any sort of secondary objectives to throw it off.
I don’t really see how the argument of high level tPvP fits in here. This game’s tPvP is based on point capture and has very little to do with outright killing the enemy as opposed to getting them off of the point as quickly as possible and keeping them from taking you off of it. The fact that the entirety of the game is balanced around this game mode is the reason why the balancing is in shambles like this in the first place, and doesn’t really justify any sort of issues with the condition system.
The argument has never been about which deals more damage. It’s about the fact that condition builds require significantly less offensive stat investment to function than power builds
Would you mind offering any video comparison or mathematical evidence to support this?
This was claimed in 27 previous threads made in recent months and not a single poster claiming this offered any evidence to support it. Yet poster upon poster made videos of various professions in both Soldiers and Dire gear and the common consensus turned out to be that the general damage output was fairly congruent. In a few profession it obviously went a little more one direction or the other.
As well, many players took builds in Soldiers gear and Dire gear and broke down the math of comparing possible damage outputs, it also came out to be fairly congruent.
Nice work on completely assuming what I said without actually reading or interpreting it.
Well, for PvE, I’d recommend zerker or knight’s. Crit dmg isn’t very useful if you don’t have the precision to back it up.
Now, if you do solo/small group roaming in WvW, I’d say valk armor is your best bet, because you can run fury meditations and go 6 in radiance for RHS, which will give you enough crit chance to be effective.
Why do you make 3 guardians? Just use one and buy the gear to change stats.
Because I originally made, what everyone else did, a norn guardian. That norn has gone through multiple sex changes its ridiculous, so I made an asura guardian since they’re kitten cute. But, everytime I do fractals and its that Ascalon fractal where it turns you into a charr, well, I wanted a charr guardian lol…
Funny how I did that exact same thing in the exact same order.
But anyway OP, shield just needs to be reworked entirely IMO. Focus and even torch both completely outclass it.
The argument has never been about which deals more damage. It’s about the fact that condition builds require significantly less offensive stat investment to function than power builds, and also that the means to reduce condition damage are very limited in solo/small group settings. Because of this, conditions are far too prominent in smaller fights and players running condition builds can simply outlast the enemy with very little risk involved.
Apparently Anet isn’t aware of just how useless guardian shield really is. So it doesn’t seem like it’ll be going anywhere anytime soon.
Hammer is good damage in PvE, and the high protection uptime is nice, especially in fractals. For a hammer build you’ll want to take 3 in zeal for the vuln on symbol and 4 in honor for the longer symbol duration to maximize its potential.
In WvW, hammer does good damage and has great control and CC, but it’s too slow for my personal tastes.
I’m really surprised to see so many people thinking guardian changes “won.” So they made Med guardian stronger, a spec barely 15% of the guardian population uses. People aren’t running med guard in pve, and they certainly aren’t running them in large scale WvW, unless to troll people. Most team PvP uses bunker guard AH not med guard.
The spirit weapon changes probably aren’t going to amount to much if anything, cuz the traits u need to make them usable are spread out everywhere. We shall see on this one…
People still wont use tomes
I mean, I guess they didn’t get nerfed, so I see how that’s a win in a way, but really, the guardian changes aren’t really changing much.
Ranger definitely “won” but most people don’t care cuz they don’t see ranger as a threat, and ranger isn’t even on most peoples radars.
Thief and Warrior definitely lost
Agreed. When they said they were going to buff tomes and offensive guardians, I was expecting like, actual buffs. Not just one good thing and a bunch of changes for useless skills that don’t make them any less useless.
Seeing someone complaining about Medi Guard is really baffling to me. Imo it’s the most well designed DPS specs in the game. Play well and you can beat many different builds 1v1. You can even make up for you lack of stability by using well timed blocks/blinds. It’s got more risk/reward than your average Thief build because your utilities that are a big part of your offense are also a big part of your sustain. If you catch the guy out they don’t have something like a auto pop Endure Pain to stay alive.
These are the type of builds you want to encourage! Why you would want something that already sees minimal play nerfed is beyond me. Even the blinds are designed in such a way where getting hit by them feels like you messed up as opposed to Thief or some Ele builds.
Medi guard is super easy to play. Instead of correctly using dodges you just spam defensive cooldowns. It dosent need a nerf but it didint need a buff either. Guardian is the easiest zerker class to play besides from pew pew power ranger that spams 111 from 1500 range with longbow.
Are you joking? Have you EVER played Medi Guard against someone even moderately competent? If you just spam your abilities against a Hambow, you’re going to lose. You’re going to find yourself with no defensive options and a hammer combo heading right towards your face. Same with any sort of condition build. Use Contemplation too early and you’re going to get overwhelmed. In fact if you run the more offensive x/6/6/x/x you’ll probably lose because only the 2/1/6/1/4 has enough condi removal to survive long enough 1v1.
As someone who mained War for the first year of the game, Medi Guard is much more difficult. You clearly never played Power Ranger either. Sure it can deal a good amount of ranged damage, but a Thief can also literally 3 shot you and you generally have no way to survive against multiple enemies for more than a nano second. Also in PvP sitting off point isn’t all that useful and 1 reflecting wall and you become totally worthless for the duration.
Anyways, at best the buff is a nice little boost but it’s not like it’s going to make the build able to beat builds it couldn’t before.
I said its the easiest ZERKER class to play not the easiest overall. The build/class with the most defensive cooldowns while being FULL zerk is the easiest zerker build to play. Medi guardian comes on the top followed by thief/mesmer. Ranger is also easy if you are able to keep your enemy at 1500 range, you can autoattack to death.
Of course compared to soldiers hambow medi guard is hard. But zerker Greatsword warrior is hardmode compared to medi guard.
It’s pretty kitten clear that you have absolutely no experience with which to base your opinion on, so you should probably just stop posting in here.
IMO it would be better to keep the planned changes&ICD but make it work on more than just one weapon.
This. Hammer is too slow of a weapon for this trait to effectively serve its purpose.
Torch is actually better than people give it credit for on all 3 classes that can use it. Guardian torch 4 hits like a truck when thrown, mesmer torch 4 provides a blind, a burn, stealth, and a blast finisher all in one, and ranger torch is great for condition builds because of the high burning uptime you can achieve with it, especially when paired with mainhand axe. Granted, some of the skills could be improved a bit (i.e. cleansing flame), but they’re in a better spot than, say, guardian shield [cough cough].
I don’t find guardians to be OP, but…
I really wish any form of burst had some kind of indication that it was being casted, it doesn’t have to be any longer than 3/4s, that would be nice. Seriously, any game breaking skill which will HEAVILY sway a fight in your favor should have at least 5/8ths-3/4s cast timer with a very vivid casting animation. COUNTER PLAY WE NEED IT!!!!!!! Wouldn’t even mind the dmg on medi guardian burst combo getting an all around 20% dps boost if it mean’t I could have some visual que prior to getting bursted. An instant teleport is impossible to read!
It doesn’t come with any CC attached, so you can just dodge away.
2/6/6/0/0 – Sw/F & Sc/Tr
That’s the one I run. Granted I only roam in WvW because I despise playing point capture though.
OP, have you ever fought a fresh air burst ele? Because their burst is much quicker and much harder to read than any meditation guardian.
Many people consider the meditation build to be op. And this is GW2 where broken things stay in meta for 6+ months at a minimum.
As a medi guard main, I promise you that it’s really not. If you think it’s overpowered, then you’re not looking hard enough for ways to counter it.
Yeah, let’s nerf the only thing medi guard has without giving them anything in return! Sounds totally fair.
Also rofl at your mention of elusive power. Because going 5 in honor is definitely core to a medi guard build.