Guild Wars 2

@ThiBash.5634 and @Vanillea.5764

I know what you mean but there is no other way than rating them individually. The 5 and 4 rating already says they are essential for a lot of builds.

Besides that I try to mention the synergies between different traits but I simply don’t have the time to add more right now. If you think some of them are missing feel free to let me know because it would help me a lot.

The two scores are mainly for traits which work in certain circumstances. Like Gorni.1764 said it doesn’t really make sense to mention it again so I might edit this part.

If you like to play D/D I would suggest a semibunker or bunker build. DPS builds for D/D are really… meh. They are just bad compared to what other professions offer (thief for example).

If you don’t die as a bunker you can try a little more DPS. I would not change the traits though. You really need them for survivability and damage.

The reason why you can’t craft them is really easy: They would not be rare anymore. Anyone could just craft their own if they want to.

Even if you would need a lot of mats for it there is still no reason for precursors via crafting. You still have to pay for all the mats and instead of that you could just buy the precursors. Besides that the mats you would need for the precursors would be really expensive which would be bad for the “regular” crafting items too.

AFAIK you need to make it to the top and beat the golems. It doesn’t matter if your party is dying. Stability and a ranged weapon help a lot.

Thanks for your feedback.

I will try to edit it this weekend if I have enough time. Feel free to correct me if you think the rating is wrong and also keep adding more synergys if some are missing!

This is my current rating for the elementalist traits. If you think something is wrong with the rating or just want to give me some feedback feel free to leave a comment! I will keep editing this thread to keep it up to date.

Thanks for reading and have a nice day.

Update notes:

• 13/03/16:
  - layout update
  - removed 2 ratings for 1 trait
  - edited ratings
  - edited descriptions
  - added some synergies

• 13/03/26:
  - Soothing Disruption description and rating edited

• 14/01/11
  - included trait changes and new traits
  - edited ratings
  - edited descriptions
  - added some synergies

Major:
Adept:

Arcane Mastery
Reduces recharge on arcane skills.

• Rating: 3
• Nice if you use arcane skills.

Renewing Stamina
Gain vigor when you deliver a critical hit.

• Rating: 5
• This trait is one of the reasons why a lot of elementalists have perma vigor. It adds a lot to your survivability and synergizes well with a lot of traits.

Final Shielding
Create an Arcane Shield when your health drops below the threshold.

• Rating: 3
• Decent survivability boost.

Vigorous Scepter
Endurance recharges faster while wielding a scepter.

• Rating: 3
• Good trait although Renewing Stamina is better.

Blasting Staff
Area attacks with staff are larger.

• Rating: 4
• Must-have for any staff build. It gives you and your group more damage and survivability.

Windborne Dagger
Move faster for each dagger that you wield.

• Rating: 2
• Basically useless since it doesn’t stack with other passive movement speed effects.

Master:

Arcane Retribution
Gain Arcane Power when your health drops below the threshold.

• Rating: 3
• Nice damage boost although the ICD is pretty long.

Elemental Attunement
When attuning to an element, you and all nearby allies gain a boon.

• Rating: 5
• Really good trait even after the nerf. Synergizes well with other traits and gear.

Arcane Resurrection
You have increased revive speed. When you revive an ally, you and the revived ally gain an aura based on your attunement.

• Rating: 2
• The Auras are nice but the increased revive speed doesn’t really help. Since you usually don’t revive too often I wouldn’t use this trait.

Arcane Energy
Arcane and signet skills restore endurance when used.

• Rating: 3
  Can be nice if you need more endurance fast and use arcane or signet skills. I prefer Renewing Stamina though.

Grandmaster:

Evasive Arcana
Create an attunement-based spell at the end of your dodge. Fire: Flame Burst. Water: Cleansing Wave. Air: Blinding Flash. Earth: Churning Earth.

• Rating: 5
• Really strong trait even after all the nerfs. Useful for any build and essential for a lot of them. Synergizes well with a lot of other traits like Renewing Stamina.

Elemental Surge
Based on your current attunement, arcane skills cause a condition to foes that they hit.

• Rating: 4
• Useful if you use arcane skills. Adds damage and utility.

Arcana
Arcana is a trait line of the elementalist that focuses on general improvements, arcane utility skills and the switching of attunements.
Per point:
Boon Duration +1%
Attunement Recharge Rate +1%

• Rating: 4
• Good trait line when it comes to stats. Boons are one of the major advantages elementalists have over any other profession and the additional Boon Duration will help you to maintain them. The Attunement Recharge Rate buffs your support abilites, damage and survivability. Without it you would have to wait a lot during a fight instead of using your skills. Slightly less important stats after the Attunement Recharge Rate Reduction though.

Minor:

Arcane Fury
Gain fury when you switch attunements.

• Rating: 4
• Fury increases your damage output a lot.

Lingering Elements
Attunement bonuses linger after leaving that attunement.

• Rating: 4
• Depending on which Attunement bonuses you have this can help a lot or just a little bit. Either way this trait is always useful.

Arcane Precision
Skills have a chance to apply a condition on critical hits.

• Rating: 2
• Disappointing trait. The chance is pretty low and a lot of builds are not focused on critical hits. Not worth 25 points.

Major:
Adept:

Arcane Abatement
Take less damage from falling. Create a spell when you take falling damage, based on your attunement.
Fire: Ring of Fire
Water: Healing Wave
Air: Static Field
Earth: Earthquake

• Rating: 2
• Ok for WvW, useless for PvE or PvP.

Shard of Ice
Arcane and signet skills cause vulnerability when activated.

• Rating: 3
• Nice damage boost if you use arcane skills or signets.

Cantrip Mastery
Reduces recharge on cantrips.

• Rating: 3
• Good for Cantrip builds.

Piercing Shards
While attuned to water, your spells deal more damage to vulnerable foes.

• Rating: 3
• Situational, strong damage boost. Nice synergy with conjured weapons.

Soothing Wave
Gain regeneration when critically hit.

• Rating: 3
• Activates quite often but the Duration is short.

Vital Striking
Deal extra damage when your health is above the threshold.

• Rating: 3
• Nice damage boost if you want to start a fight with a huge burst or if you are able to keep your HP > 90%. Works with all Attunements.

Master:

Stop Drop and Roll
Dodge rolling removes burning and chilled.

• Rating: 2
• Ok against condition builds. Besides that I don’t see any reason why you should use this trait.

Aquamancer’s Alacrity
Reduces recharge on all water weapon skills.

• Rating: 3
• Good survivability boost. Really good for staff builds in WvW.

Soothing Disruption
Cantrips grant you regeneration and vigor.

• Rating: 4
• Great for Cantrip builds. Synergizes well with Cleansing Water and Evasive Arcana.

Cleansing Wave
Remove a condition from you and your allies when attuning to water.

• Rating: 4
• Really good against Condition builds. Also helps your allies.

Grandmaster:

Cleansing Water
Remove a condition when granting regeneration to yourself or an ally.

• Rating: 5
• This is one of the best major traits for an elementalist even after the PvP nerf. Since you will grant regeneration to yourself or an ally quite often this trait will remove a condition every single time. Keep in mind this includes any regeneration you grant not only regeneration granted by skills .If you have problems with conditons use this trait.

Powerful Aura
Auras are applied to nearby allies.

• Rating: 4
• Must-have for Aura builds and good for any other build. Your team will love you for this trait.

Water Magic
Water Magic is a trait line of the elementalist that focuses on use of water magic and defensive tactics, as well as exploiting Vulnerability on foes.
Per point:
Vitality +10
Healing Power +10

• Rating: 4
• Really nice stat bonuses. Since elementalists don’t have a lot of HP this really helps. The additional Healing Power also makes it easier to stay alive.

Minor:

Soothing Mist
Regenerate health while attuned to water.

• Rating: 4
• Strong minor trait. It heals you and your allies. More Healing Power makes this trait even better.

Healing Ripple
Heal nearby allies when attuning to water.

• Rating: 5
• Huge heal which is even better the more Healing Power you have. One of the best minor traits for an elementalist.

Bountiful Power
Deal more damage for each boon on you.

• Rating: 3
• Not as good after the nerf but still decent.

Major:
Adept:

Obsidian Focus
Gain toughness while using a channeled skill.

• Rating: 3
• Only works if you use channeling skills but the Toughness bonus is huge.

Signet Mastery
Reduces recharge on signets.

• Rating: 3
• Good for Signet builds.

Earth’s Embrace
Gain Armor of Earth whenever your health drops below the threshold.

• Rating: 4
• Really good trait. The ICD is ok for the buffs this trait offers. If you have 10 points left and you don’t know which trait you want this one would be one of my recommendations.

Serrated Stones
Bleeds you apply last longer; deal more damage to bleeding foes.

• Rating: 4
• Nice damage boost. Since bleeding usually lasts longer than burning this trait also helps other Attunements. Especially good for Condition builds.

Elemental Shielding
Gain protection when applying an aura to yourself or an ally.

• Rating: 3
• Strong for Aura builds, ok for other builds. Also synergises well with Powerful Aura.

Stone Splinters
Deal more damage when you are within a range of 600 of your target.

• Rating: 4
• Huge damage boost for all Attunements. Only mediocre if you use a staff.

Master:

Strength of Stone
Gain condition damage based on your toughness.

• Rating: 4
• Great for Condition builds since they usually have a lot of Toughness.

Rock Solid
Grant stability to nearby allies when attuning to earth.

• Rating: 4
• Really good choice for any build. Great if you use many channeled skills or your enemy has a lot of CC.

Geomancer’s Freedom
You recover from crippled, immobilized, and chilled faster.

• Rating: 2
• We already have enough Condition removal. Can be useful sometimes.

Geomancer’s Alacrity
Reduces recharge on all earth weapon skills.

• Rating: 3
• Decent damage and survivability boost.

Grandmaster:

Diamond Skin
Conditions cannot be applied to you when your health is above the threshold.

• Rating: 4
• Very situational. Usually either overpowered or useless.

Written in Stone
Maintain the passive effects of signets when you activate them.

• Rating: 4
• Must-have for Signet builds.

Earth Magic
Earth Magic is a trait line of the elementalist that focuses on use of earth magic, bleeds, defense, and signets.
Per point:
Toughness +10
Condition Damage +10

• Rating: 3
• Toughness and Condition Damage are always useful. No matter which build you play this always improves your survivability and damage.

Minor:

Stone Flesh
Gain toughness while attuned to earth.

• Rating: 3
• Good trait although it’s only active while attuned to earth.

Earthen Blast
Damage foes and cripple them for 3 seconds when attuning to earth.

• Rating: 3
• Underrated trait in my opinion. The damage is really low but the Cripple helps a lot.

Enduring Damage
Deal more damage when your endurance is full.

• Rating: 4
• Nice addition to any build. The synergy between Vigor and this trait make it really useful.

Major:
Adept:

Zephyr’s Boon
Auras grant fury and swiftness when applied.

• Rating: 4
• Strong for Aura builds, ok for other builds. Powerful Aura will cause Zephyr’s Boon to apply fury and swiftness to allies too which means this trait can be extremly useful.

Zephyr’s Focus
Your endurance regenerates faster while channeling skills.

• Rating: 2
• Ok if you use a lot of channeling skills. There are better traits though.

Quick Glyphs
Reduces recharge on glyphs.

• Rating: 3
• Good for Glyph builds.

One with Air
Gain superspeed when attuning to air.

• Rating: 2
• Mediocre trait since the Duration is really short.

Soothing Winds
Gain healing based on your precision.

• Rating: 3
• Good if you have ridiculous amounts of precision.

Bolt to the Heart
Deal more damage when your foe’s health drops below the threshold.

• Rating: 4
• Huge damage boost. Really strong for high DPS builds and good for any other build. This trait is one of my 10 point recommendations.

Master:

Arcane Lightning
Gain more critical-hit damage for a short time when you use an arcane skill. Does not stack.

• Rating: 3
• Strong for high critical-hit damage builds with Arcane skills.

Inscription
Grants a boon associated with your current attunement when you cast a glyph.

• Rating: 3
• Good for Glyph builds.

Aeromancer’s Alacrity
Reduces recharge on all your air weapon skills.

• Rating: 3
• Good for every build.

Air Training
Deal more damage while attuned to air.

• Rating: 3
• Really good for burst builds, decent for every other build.

Grandmaster:

Tempest Defense
Surround yourself with a Shocking Aura when disabled (fear, stun, daze, knockback, knockdown, launch, float, or sink). Deal more damage to stunned or knocked-down foes.

• Rating: 4
• Huge damage and survivability boost. Combining it with Grounded and reducing the ICD really helped this trait.

Fresh Air
Recharge Air Attunement on a critical hit.

• Rating: 4
• Strong for burst builds since you can use high damage skills more often.

Air Magic
Air Magic is a trait line of the elementalist that focuses on use of air magic and additionally glyphs, movement speed, and spike damage.
Per point:
Precision +10
Critical Damage +1%

• Rating: 3
• Strong for high DPS builds. If you want to play a more supportive role I would not recommend this trait line.

Minor:

Zephyr’s Speed
Move faster while attuned to air.

• Rating: 1
• Useless trait since you have perma Swiftness, Signet of Air or other Speed buffs. Besides that speed buffs don’t stack. Really disappointing trait.

Electric Discharge
Strike your target with a bolt of lightning when attuning to air.

• Rating: 3
• Decent damage boost.

Weak Spot
Chance to cause vulnerability on critical hits.

• Rating: 3
• Nice addition to high Critical Chance builds. Keep in mind it is only 1 stack for 5 seconds.

Major:
Adept:

Lava Tomb
Create a Lava Font when downed. Deal more damage while downed.

• Rating: 2
• If you are Downed this helps you to get back in the fight without your team. You usually have a team though which means this trait is only mediocre.

Conjurer
Conjured weapons have more charges.

• Rating: 3
• Good trait if you use Conjured weapons.

Ember’s Might
Burns you apply last longer.

• Rating: 3
• Good for most builds, extremely good for Condition builds. Underrated trait in my opinion.

Spell Slinger
Cantrips grant you might when used.

• Rating: 3
• Good damage boost if you use Cantrips.

Burning Precision
Critical hits have a chance to cause burning.

• Rating: 2
• If you have a high Critical Chance this trait can be ok but keep in mind it is only a 1 second Burning. If you really want the Burning damage there are better ways.

Internal Fire
Deal more damage while attuned to fire.

• Rating: 3
• If you use fire skills like Meteor Shower a lot this trait is a good choice. Since fire is one of the major damage attunements this trait is never bad.

Master:

Pyromancer’s Alacrity
Reduces recharge on all fire weapon skills.

• Rating: 3
• Adds a lot to your damage output because the fire attunement is one of your main damage sources.

Burning Fire
Use Cleansing Fire automatically when you have a number of conditions on you.

• Rating: 3
• Good trait if your enemies apply a lot of Conditions.

Fire’s Embrace
When you activate a signet, you gain a fire shield.

• Rating: 3
• Nice for signet builds.

One with Fire
Flame Barrier’s chance to burn foes goes up the longer you are attuned to fire.

• Rating: 2
• Since Flame Barrier is close to useless I would never pick this trait.

Grandmaster:

Persisting Flames
Blast finishers you execute on fire fields give fury. Fire fields last longer.

• Rating: 4
• Decent before the buff, even better now. The additional Duration combined with Fury greatly increase the damage output and synergize with other parts of many builds.

Pyromancer’s Puissance
Each fire spell you cast grants you might.

• Rating: 4
• More Might means more damage. If you focus on the Fire Attunement for your damage output this trait can help a lot. The more you switch between Attunements the less this trait is effective.

Fire Magic

Fire Magic is a trait line of the elementalist that focuses on use of fire magic and conjured weapons.
Per point:
Power +10
Condition Duration +1%

• Rating: 3
• Power and Condition Duration are always nice to have. The majority of your power comes from Might and your gear which just makes this a good addition. The Condition Duration is strong for condition builds but instead of the the fire trait line I prefer the earth trait line which gives you Condition Damage and traits which usually fit the build better.

Minor:

Flame Barrier
You have a chance to cause burning whenever a foe attacks you in melee. Only triggers when attuned to fire.

• Rating: 2
• A lot of eles aren’t in melee range and if they are they don’t want to be hit. Besides that you are constantly switching between attunements which makes this trait even less effective.

Sunspot
Inflict damage at your location when you attune to fire.

• Rating: 2
• Extra damage is never bad but in this case the damage is so low you won’t even recognize it. Disappointing for 15 points.

Burning Rage
Deal more damage to burning foes.

• Rating: 4
• Decent damage boost after the buff. Since most builds apply Burning in some way this traits is always good.

Hello everyone,

in this thread I want to rate and discuss the different elementalist traits and trait lines. Some are really strong in my opinion while others are basically useless. Maybe this helps new elementalist players to understand which traits they should pick and encourages advanced elementalist players to discuss this topic.

This is how I rate the different traits and trait lines:

5 = Strong for all elementalist builds. Really nice to have. Essential for a lot of builds.
4 = Strong for most builds. Nice addition for any build. Sometimes essential.
3 = Good for most builds. Not essential for common builds.
2 = Mediocre trait or trait line. I would recommend a higher rated trait or trait line.
1 = Useless trait or trait line. I would only pick this trait for fun or a very special build.

Here are the different traits and trait lines:

My main is an elementalist and I play him since the game was released. Here is what I can tell you about the elementalist and what I know about Mesmers from playing against/with them.

1. Ele wins:
PvE and WvW: You can support/heal, deal damage and tank. There is basically nothing you can’t do.
PvP: You can tank and deal some damage. It’s not a huge burst but it is enough to poke enemies to death.

2. Elementalist wins:

You only have very few weapon options but the amount of skills you have because of the different attunements make up for that. There are always different combos you can use and if you don’t feel like doing your damage combo you can just switch to you support combo.

3. I would say eles are easier to pick up but when it comes to mastering they are both the same.

It takes some time until you know how to properly use your illusions and play those mind games as a Mesmer. As an ele you can deal damage and heal well right from the start.

When it comes to mastering those professions I would say they are equal. You can still improve your Mesmer gameplay no matter how long you have played him (especially those mind games for PvP). For eles there is a lot to learn: 4 attunements for each weapon, different skill combos, combo fields and finishers, how to properly engage/disengage, CDs for all the skills and so on.

To sum it up:

No matter how long you played a profession there is always something you can improve so don’t worry about it.

4. Both professions are strong in PvE, PvP and WvW.

Mesmer:

I don’t know the exact builds for PvE, PvP and WvW but here is what I know from playing against/with them:

PvE: The only obvious thing I know is Time Warp is used pretty much all the time. You should ask a Mesmer player if you want to know more.

PvP: Mainly burst builds are used in PvP. Most players I play against use the basic shatter build (google can help you here ).

WvW: It seems like Mesmers also use the PvP builds in WvW. Feel free to ask a Mesmer player if you want to know more.

Ele:

PvE: Like I said, you can be a tank, support or damage dealer (or a mix between those 3). This is one of the reasons why I like playing an ele, you can always change your playstyle and still be useful!

PvP: Well, there is only one really strong build out there: D/D bunker. Google it and you know how to play an ele in PvP.

WvW: The D/D bunker build also works here. High DPS and support staff builds are also really good. Way more fun compared to PvP since you switch between different builds.

5) Both equal. What I like about the ele is the perma swiftness but the Mesmer teleport skills are also nice and fun!

6) Both equal again. They can burst and have good utility. Both depend on their builds (like every other profession).

I would say try both. If you like the attunement switching play an ele (you will need to do this no matter what) and if you like the illusions play a Mesmer (you will need to use them in every build).

My next character is going to be a Mesmer because I like the illusions. No matter which one you choose, both are a lot of fun.

I have the same problems again. It started about 1h ago when I tried to teleport to the area where the dragon in “Sparkfly Fen” spawns. I was stuck in the loading screen for 10mins+ twice and after restarting again for a 3rd attempt I could not log in. 30mins later I could log in but I am stuck in the loading screen again.

It seems like this only happens when dragon fights are about to start (~1h before the fight – ~30mins after the fight).

Most other problems were fixed after my ISP helped me though.

Do you think I should talk to my ISP again because of these problems?
Which diagnostic information do you need (PC components, ISP and server I guess)?
Should I keep posting in this thread or instead create a support ticket so the Technical Support Team can help me?

Thanks for your help!

@evilapprentice.6379

THAT was the answer I was waiting for. Finally something that might help me. I usually try to use all my abilities when they are useful (which would be a non stealthed enemy being close to me in this case) but I barely save these 2 skills for the stealth. I am pretty sure this will help!

In this case, forget about what I said.

I don’t know about the other professions but maybe there is a simple answer like that as well.

Coming back to the original topic:

I still think the high kill potential and “big numbers” are they main reason why a lot of people like these professions.

@evilapprentice.6379

Thanks for your answer.

I mainly play an elementalist (currently “non bunker” O.O) so I don’t have any chain attacks. I know what you mean though.

@Hugo.9743

Also thanks for your answer.

Like I said to evilapprentice.6379 I am currently playing a non bunker ele which means I only have low health/low heals. The only stun break, invulnerability, etc. eles have are Cantrips. Cantrips have a really high CD (90 secs for Armor of Earth, 75 secs for Mist Form) which means it feels like a waste if I have to use them for a single stealth ability. The only CC for D/D I can think about being useful in this situation is " Earthquake" which also has a 45 sec CD. Dodging sometimes works but I can’t dodge for the whole stealth duration.

If I play an bunker elementalist however stealth is no problem. Switch to earth → protection → switch to water → heal → full HP. For me it’s not about a bunker being able to fight against stealthed enemies because you can turn a stealth attack into your advantage AFTER being hit. It’s about other builds having better chances because they can react to it before being hit.

The last sentence was no excuse. I really don’t want stealth to be nerfed really hard. Why should I?

Like I said, thanks for your answer though. I will try to improve the build and my playstyle. Maybe it helps a little bit.

I don’t think you can compare Attunement Recharge Rate to these stats. It buffs everything an ele offers (damage, defense, heal and so on) and is pretty much like all these stats combined. That’s why it is so important for eles. I would prefer a high ARR over the other stats any time.

All the stats you mentioned are not equally strong. They are affected by certain ratios. For example:

1 point in Vitality = 10 HP
1 point in Precision = x damage

The damage 1 point in Precisions offers can be more than 10 HP or less. This means you can’t really compare these stats 1:1. They are all strong in certain situations but most likely never equally strong.

P.S.: Don’t don’t forget you also get free Boon Duration and strong traits if you put 30 points in Arcana.

@Cirax.9231

If I remember correctly there is a training area which is called combat training in the “Heart of the Mists”. It’s only vs NPCs but it is still enough training for Hot Join.

evilapprentice.6379:

Blackhat.4016:

@evilapprentice.6379

I do understand what you mean BUT what I was trying to say is stealth still is the easiest way to engage and escape without giving your opponent a way to properly react to it. The burst is so fast you can engage and disengage the whole time and that’s why stealth is really strong. If there is any profession/build out there which is a glass canon and still can go all in that easy without dying feel free to post it here.

Your auto attack hit your enemy without you knowing about it? Great! Your AoE hit your enemy any feedback? Congrats! As you most likely know all those hits are pure luck and even if you manage to hit the stealthed enemy you won’t see it. Luck is the worst thing in PvP. If luck decides whether you can kill someone or not is really frustrating. I would much rather see a feature implemented which makes the match up skill based and not luck based. That’s why is think some kind of feedback would be nice (nothing which makes stealth useless though).

About the passively part:

Well that’s how glass canons work. You don’t have all these defensive abilities because you traded them for offensive ones. Besides that like you said you still have stealth and shadowsteps which are REALLY strong. Imo they are stronger than protection and so on. Why? Because you can evade ALL the damage instead of just reducing it. Like I said before if you find a profession/build which offers that much burst while still being able to survive short and long fights feel free to post it here.

A GC warrior can still run endure pain and a shield OH on his second set.
GC Mes’s still have distortion and (in a pinch) Blurred frenzy if they’re running Sword, and a block on their scepter (Just one tho) MH. GC Rangers can still slot Protect me (or whatever its called). Engi’s have shield OH as an option or their immunity elixir (S I believe). And so on and so on. Not a single one of those options is affected by spec or gear – Endure pain does the same exact thing for a toughness/vit warrior as it does for a power/crit warrior. Thieves don’t get that option. Nothing is as strong as “there is absolutely nothing you can do to kill me for X seconds”.

Stealth and Shadowstep are strong – Protection and stability are too. I won’t make a claim about how much stronger apples are than oranges, but there’s a reason your ability to bunker in this game is directly tied to your access to protection.

As far as Luck goes, my point about thief playstyle is that its not luck. You’re not getting lucky when you run in a direction for 2 seconds, do a 180, start AAing and hit a thief. That’s called counterplaying…because if that thief isn’t trying to get behind you, he isn’t trying to burst you. Of course there are ranged options, but P/P P/D and SHbow aren’t bursty specs – they use stealth as a defensive utility more than anything else. If a thief is using stealth as an offensive tool, he’s trying to do 1 thing – knowing that lets you counter it to a fair degree. Of course you aren’t countering it completely, but did you really expect a complete counter to a class’s core mechanic?

Thanks for your answer.

Comparing stealth to these abilities doesn’t make sense imo. They have a higher CD and need to be stronger. There is no doubt about invulnerability being stronger BUT those skills always have a high CD. Besides that they don’t help you to disengage a battle or get in a better position without your enemy knowing it. You can still see your enemy and react to it.

My comparison was pointless too (like you said). It was basically my opinion about it.

About the counterplay part:

It is still luck. You don’t know if you hit your enemy or not. The counterplay you mentioned is the way I try to play against thiefs most of the time but it simply doesn’t work against good players. A good thief will know about it. How would you counter his playstyle then? AoE everything around you for very little damage (remember single target damage > AoE damage when it comes to a single enemy)? Besides that how would you try to defend/cap a point? I can’t just run straight for 3 secs without leaving the cap area. How is this well balanced if I have to run every single time a thief/mesmer uses stealth?

I am not asking for a complete stealth nerf, I just want feedback so I can think about the next step to beat the enemy.

@evilapprentice.6379

I do understand what you mean BUT what I was trying to say is stealth still is the easiest way to engage and escape without giving your opponent a way to properly react to it. The burst is so fast you can engage and disengage the whole time and that’s why stealth is really strong. If there is any profession/build out there which is a glass canon and still can go all in that easy without dying feel free to post it here.

Your auto attack hit your enemy without you knowing about it? Great! Your AoE hit your enemy any feedback? Congrats! As you most likely know all those hits are pure luck and even if you manage to hit the stealthed enemy you won’t see it. Luck is the worst thing in PvP. If luck decides whether you can kill someone or not is really frustrating. I would much rather see a feature implemented which makes the match up skill based and not luck based. That’s why is think some kind of feedback would be nice (nothing which makes stealth useless though).

About the passively part:

Well that’s how glass canons work. You don’t have all these defensive abilities because you traded them for offensive ones. Besides that like you said you still have stealth and shadowsteps which are REALLY strong. Imo they are stronger than protection and so on. Why? Because you can evade ALL the damage instead of just reducing it. Like I said before if you find a profession/build which offers that much burst while still being able to survive short and long fights feel free to post it here.

Really nice to finally have a good conversation abouth stealth instead of the QQ I saw in other threads. So far I really liked some of the ideas on how to improve the situation.

“Pinging” who is the right Mesmer also helps most of the time (I hope you understand what I mean^^).

For stealth… well there is no real counter for that. You can try to predict and when and where they are going to hit you or try to prepare for their next attack (protection, invulnerability, etc.). Maybe this helps.

I feel like the forum should be divided in a “Hot Join” and a “tPvP” forum. For me it is really difficult to give a proper answer because if something is right in Hot Join it doesn’t mean this is also true for tPvP. So far most answers were completely pointless (including mine) because of this.

Thanks for all the answers.

Please try to stay friendly and keep posting good ideas.

@Mrowqa.3861 again after edit

Good luck finding a bunker build with that much damage.^^ I can tell you there are only very few skills which can hit that hard if you run the current 10 air/earth 30 water 30 arcana build. The only reliable one I can think about is “Fire Grab” (which is on a 45sec CD), the rest either does not hit as hard or is easy to dodge (e.g. “Churning Earth”). The damage is really low compared to any other build I know.

@Kardiamond.6952

Thanks for your answer. I don’t know about Zoose’s opinion but maybe google can help me.

@Mrowqa.3861

That’s what I was trying to say:

“Constant heal and condition removal”

I was mainly referring to water here. Maybe I should make it clear next time. It looks like a huge heal because of the low HP. It’s not like we have an 8k heal but we have 1-2k heals every few seconds. The longer the battle lasts, the better our heals are. Besides that water is the main reason why this build is called a bunker build. I though this would be kinda obvious.

@Penguin.5197

That’s what I was trying to say. Completely agree.

@Hugo.9743

There are a lot of things I would disagree with but I don’t see why I should argue about it. According to the amount of “kitten” in you text I am assuming you are one of these “I know everything about PvP, you guys only need to l2p” players. It’s just pointless to talk about any topic with those kind of people.

@Shukran.4851

I do agree. TPvP is really different but if you don’t have the time to play with a team on a regular basis (like I do) or you simply don’t find a team there is only Hot Join left. I think this is what the OP was complaining about.

Hello everyone,

in this thread I am trying to explain why I think Anet did not completely nerf the ele D/D bunker build. I know this will most likely cause a lot of QQ (which is the case in a lot of other threads) but I hope this helps some players to understand how balancing works.

First of all here is what I feel like people rate the current ele bunker build after reading some threads / talking to a lot of players:

Don’t main ele and don’t know how to counter it: OP
Don’t main ele and know how to counter it: strong (sometimes OP)
Main ele and don’t know how to counter it: strong
Main ele and know how to counter it: ok (sometimes strong)

(If you want to know how to counter them feel free to read some of my previous posts )

I main ele and know how to counter it. That’s why the build seems ok to me but I also understand why I lot of people complain about it. It is really difficult to deal with.

Constant heal and condition removal, ok damage with 2 bursts and a lot of mobility obviously means this is a strong build for PvP.

Difficult to deal with
=> a lot of players don’t like playing against it
=> a lot of players will complain about it
=> “main ele” players will say the build is not OP or try to teach others how to beat it (that’s at least what I do); they will also complain about other builds not being viable
=> arguing starts and another 10 page thread is born

Here is where Anets balancing starts:

On the one hand Anet wants to satisfy the majority of players. On the other hand they also want the “main ele” players to enjoy the game. This is a big problem which will need a lot of time to be solved. The first step was a little nerf which was not enough according to several threads I read.

In my opinion D/D bunkers should be changed so they are easier to deal with without being useless. The main problem I see are the boons. If they are up you will most likey not be able to kill the ele. If there are not up you can easily kill them unless they use a Cantrip. Imo bunker eles should be weaker if all boons are up (compared to right now) and stronger if no boon is up (also compared to right now).

Besides that other builds should be more viable. A good example are glass canon builds. The first and only time I saw a glass canon ele was back when I started playing PvP. After that I never saw one again. This is a huge opportunity. You could satisfy the ele players by giving them more builds to play with and also make the other players enjoy the game more because there would be less bunkers.

(Some off topic here: Currently the only good glass canon builds I see are Mesmers and Thiefs. This is most likey because of stealth which has no counter. If there would be equal chances to have a good defense while being a glass canon I can see other professions for example eles as a viable glass canon.)

As you can see there are many ways to improve the current situation but this will take time. The last balancing patch was a good first step and I am sure more patches will make it even better.

What do you guys think about this thread and the topic? Please read the whole thread before writing a comment. Thanks.

I still see all the professions in PvP but you are right, there are more thiefs and mesmers compared to a few weeks ago.

The main reason I think players like to play these professions in PvP (and the only reason why I don’t like playing against them) is stealth. It simply has no counters. That’s why these 2 professions are the ones which can be played as a glass canon without being easy to kill.

=> high kill potential, “big numbers”, easy escape = a lot of players play these 2 professions

@Lordrosicky.5813

I didn’t read your thread but as far as I know talking about most topics is ok. They usually only close threads if they are QQ or don’t give any chance for a conversation (e.g. “this game sucks, I quit”). Maybe this helps.

If you need some help against eles feel free to PM me ingame.

My tier list including the latest patch (even though I think this tier list is kinda pointless since it is different on every map):

1. Ele: strong if bunker build (not OP for me, since I main it I know how to counter it but I understand what most people are complaining about), strong orb runner if bunker build, ok if any other build
1. Thief: good if faceroll, strong if good player, stealth annoying since it has no counter, good orb runner
1. Mesmer: strong, good defense no matter how you build because of illusions, stealth again, good orb runner
1. Guardian: strong because of defensive abilities, strong orb (runner) protector

2. Engineer: good in any situation, strong orb runner
2. Ranger: good in most situations, strong orb runner

3. Necro: Ok in any situation, good orb (runner) protector
3. Warrior: Ok if not 100b faceroll, mediocre if played 100b faceroll, strong orb runner

Keep in mind ALL 1. professions are equally strong. Ele = Mesmer = Guardian and so on. This is the same for 2. and 3..

Currently there is no profession which is OP but some of them may need some buffs (mainly warriors and necros I would say). Every profession is beatable but some need a little more skill/knowledge.

strong > good > ok > mediocre just in case it looks confusing

Finally found the “official” guesting thread.

What is really annoying about the guesting feature is not only that people exploit it to farm dragon chests on other servers (didn’t Anet say they don’t this game to be a farm/grind fest?), it also stops me from playing with my friends. Sometimes I can’t get in my server for HOURS if there is a dragon coming soon and even if I can it lags. A lot.

I still think guesting is a good idea but right now it causes to many problems.

+1 for weapon swap OUT OF COMBAT for BOTH ele and engineer.

I don’t see any problems here, it doesn’t change the balance and it would give eles and engineers the ability to properly store their weapons like any other profession.

And please don’t post this “profession x is OP” bulls… here since it is not related to this topic. You have 100+ threads for that. If you see any REAL problems feel free to post them.

PvE or PvP? Which weapon are you using? Without any information we will not be able to help you.

(I am not a huge condition damage fan to be honest when it comes to ele. The skills are either difficult to hit or they don’t deal a lot of damage. If you play PvE it is possible to play a condition damage ele though.)

The game seems to work now. I just talked to my ISP again and this time they were able to help me.

I don’t know what they exactly did to help me but this is what happenend from my point of view:

- Internet connection was gone for ~5mins (not only Guild Wars 2 but the whole internet connection for every person in my house).
- Router settings are still the same and the only thing that changed was the “internet connection light” which turned red during those 5 mins.

I am assuming they reset something on their part because they did not touch any router settings.

There are only 2 problems left:

- sometimes it lags during dragon fights (FPS are still at ~35-40)
- I can’t harvest any T6 mats

After reading some other threads I am sure this is not related to the problems I had with my ISP. Thanks everyone for helping me.

First of all it is not a teleport. Teleports take no time to travel and can be used to get on higher terrain etc. (if it is possible to get there by walking).

RTL seems to be what you call a “normal movement skill”. While it should be affected by the orb’s slow and conditions there are reasons why it is not.

First of all it has some major flaws compared to other “normal movement skills”:

- You can’t use any other abilites while using RTL. This is really huge.
- If you are immobilized or stuck somewhere (e.g. terrain bugs, ledges, and so on) while trying to RTL you are basically dead. You can’t move, dodge or use any other skill.
- RTL is not as easy to control. It is like launching a rocket. Once it starts you can’t control it anymore. Obviously it is not that difficult to use either but it takes some practice until you know where you can RTL and where you are most likely going to die.
- It has a high CD. 20 seconds doesn’t seem like a lot but compared to other movement skills it really is. Besides that you will most likely never find an ele using the “Aeromancer’s Alacrity” trait since barely anyone has 20 points in air.

RTL obviously needs some advantages compared to “normal movement skills” after knowing about the flaws:

- It is really fast. I don’t know if is faster than other mobility skills with the same range but it definitely feels faster. Like I said, it is like a rocket.
- It is not affected by the orb’s slow and conditions. This is the main reason why you want to use RTL. If it would only be really fast with all the huge flaws there would be no reason to use it.

That’s why RTL is different and if used properly a strong skill for orb runners.

Thanks Gaile.

I will let you guys know once my ISP has a better answer. Otherwise I will try to contact the support.

Thiefs being “OP” is not the problem (which they aren’t anyway imo).

The problem is stealth has no counter. Everything else in the game has a counter.

Here are some examples:

D/D bunker (yes, the “OP” build has counters) → boon removal, burst damage, lots of immobilize/stun/knockdown

Shatter mesmer (again, yes there are counters for this build)→ kill illusions with AoE, look for special abilites only players are able to cast, “ping” who the real mesmer is, dodge if illusions might shatter

Conditionmancer → lots of condition removal/heal, high HP, mobility to disengage if needed

100b warrior → mobility, stun break, protection, Shocking Aura, Frost Aura

and so on…

When it comes to stealth there is nothing you can do. Once a thief/mesmer is stealthed you can only wait until the enemy attacks you and maybe prepare in some way (for example get protection and hope the enemy will hit you while the buff is up).

If the enemy decides to walk away you can’t do anything about it.

If he attacks you you can TRY to dodge it (which would be pure luck since you can’t see him) or get some sort of protection BUT it’s still a waste of time for you since you can’t do anything to attack the enemy.

There is no pop up which says you just successfully hit a stealthed enemy. The game simply lacks feedback here. We don’t want the stealth to break if we manage to hit them but at least let the damage pop up or let us know in another way. As long as this does not happen we can only waste our AoE skills and hope to hit them at least once.

If we can’t see the enemy at all we can’t fight them and that’s what makes stealth frustrating to deal with.

=> No huge nerf needed but players need feedback if they just hit a stealthed enemy. Otherwise it’s as close to god mode as you can get in this game.

There is a reason why you can counter it in any other PvP oriented game.

I talked to my ISP today and the people I talked to said they didn’t know anything about the problem and would recommend talking the the company who made the game which would be Anet.

I do think these people had no idea what they were talking about though (which was the case the last time I had internet problems). I will try again tomorrow and see if something changed.

Did anyone fix the problem yet and if yes how?

I do agree to pretty much everything BUT do we really need a “pro” to mention all these obvious flaws?^^

I am pretty sure most PvP players know about all these probems and if we do, Anet does too. Remember, they have people working full time just to improve the game. It’s not about knowing, it’s much rather about fixing these problems. And a “pro” complaining about PvP won’t change Anets mindset.

Obviously everything else seems to be easy since everyone wants to play the “best” profession.^^

There is no doubt though about the Heartseeker spam build being one of the easiest (if not the easiest) in the game. You only have 1 attack skill (HS) instead of 10 or more and your elite, heal and utility skills. Stealth is really good if you make any mistakes and to initiate. Keep in mind this is only true for the SPAM build, not thiefs or D/D in general.

I don’t know if the damage changed (I am assuming yes since a lot of people are complaining) BUT since Anet also forgot to mention some other nerfs in the last patch notes and players had to tell them to do so this may be a stealth nerf.

I hope it is not since I never had any problems fighting mesmers but you never know what Anet is doing next.

P/V/T is really nice if you want to be tanky.

I could easily do fractal runs up to level 28 (without any AR) while not having to worry about dying each time an enemy hits me. Of course agony skills will kill you super fast but that’s not the point. The enemies in “higher” fractal levels hit really hard. If you can survive there you can survive any part of the game.

Besides that boons, dodge, runes and some traits increase your survivability. So there is no reason to worry about that.

Even for PvE I would say 30 points in arcana is really good. Being able to change attunements faster increases both your defense and offense. The increased Boon Duration also helps. The traits you should pick can be used for more damage or more survivability (e.g. Evasive Arcana).

For the rest of your points you can pick whatever you feel like. Fire/air for more damage, earth for a mix between defense and condition damage and water for even more survivability.

I really like having at least 10 points in water for “Cleansing Wave”. It is really good for any part of the game. The extra HP and healing power is also nice.

Keep in mind deleting all your characters means you also loose all your dyes/recipes/karma/etc. Before doing this you may think about if it is really worth it.

Is your server really that bad?

Is it cheaper to keep all my characters (including soulbound items/karma/dyes/etc.) and save up gold to buy the gems?

Is is really worth the time I had to spend on the new characters? I know PvE is fun but would you really like to do the exact same quests with the exact same character only on a different server (if you really want to rebuild your characters after the transfer). For me this is not the case.

I hope this helps.