Guild Wars 2

For me, either guild pillar or Hymenoptera.

Chances are we’ll be fine in zerkers. Thieves are the only class that gains a substantial amount of healing from the damage we inflict, so if we should find ourselves needing more health we can also swap out No Quarter for Invigorating Precision.

At the moment, the only specialization I’m deliberately forgoing is the druid.

Don’t stalk those you block.

Tabootrinket.2631:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Tabootrinket.2631:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Tabootrinket.2631:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

The funny part about all that is, I’ve ran the numbers a few times, and the staff is the highest damaging weapon thieves will have. It has the highest base auto attack, the highest DPS attack, the highest per-initiative damage, the highest AoE damage, and the highest modifiers attached to traits. All at the same time.

So when players say that the staff is low damaging or underpowered and it clearly isn’t… then I have to throw out their feedback as not being objective.

Numbers are bound to change for balance, and they will. Mechanism is another story.
So what will happen when those numbers get toned down ? The weapon gets forgotten.

I don’t buy it. The idea that staff is inadequate because in the future the staff may be nerfed just doesn’t make sense. You’re have to remember, the staff isn’t just max deeps. It is max deeps in every category: per initiative, on auto, at base, overall, and against multiple targets. For the staff to fall out of use, it would have to see every single category hit.

Here’s the thing, a single weapon isn’t supposed to supplant every other weapons (as you suggest the staff does). And each weapon is supposed to add a different “playstyle” compared to the others.
The staff as it is, doesn’t really provide what the others don’t. And that’s the main problem.
So as it is, the numbers in the staff weapon will either make it superior or inferior to other weapons which shouldn’t be the case. You should choose the staff (as you choose other weapons) because it provides another kind of tools, not because it makes the others obsolete.

The staff provides large AoE damage, a feature that isn’t present on any other thief weapon. Also massive weapon stacking and the ability to innately cure immobility.

AoE damage exists on shortbow. Sword permits to cure conditions. With shortbows we can also port away… we don’t really lack tools to cure immobility.

Not nearly to the degree that staff has it. Heck, the shortbow does less AoE damage than the sword.

It is all up for preference. However, for the sake of maximizing effective HP, it is best to gain vitality until you have 20,640 health, then increase toughness and vitality in equal measure after that.

Until you reach that point, my suggestion would be to go for vitality over toughness. I run PVE mostly, so my ideal spec is: none. I can’t speak for WvW or PVP.

It has been my general experience that the kind of people who would deny the necro a spot on their team are the kind of people I wouldn’t want to play with on any other class.

As far as current content goes, the necro is good at a lot of things that just aren’t needed (physical bulk, condi transferring, boon corruption, chill and cripple, etc). But content in the game changes. I wouldn’t be surprised to find reaper tanks becoming the norm.

The tooltip assumes, at level 80, 2600 armor. As far as I can tell, this is the standard armor value for most enemies. There are some alterations, but exceptions are more rare than common.

Derenek.8931:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Derenek.8931:

I think actual opinions of players regarding this is based on their virtual wealth demographic. Players with a ton of gold and are not greatly inconvenienced by inflation or price fixing will see little to no problem with the issue. Other players who don’t have a ton of gold will be highly inconvenienced by prices being set at prices too far above their ability to participate.

It happens in the real world as well. The wealthy, bankers, and speculators will always argue for deregulation. Normal people who can’t afford to live won’t be so laissez faire.

Right now the TP is run in the 1920’s laissez faire style. Which basically means it is not run at all. It is totally influenced by the rich players at the expense of poor players. However unlike the real world’s government, Anet doesnt have to be influenced by the rich. They need to be influenced by the actual demographics of their paying customers. What percentage of players actually have enough gold to play the game at a fun and participatory level?

Is it worth alienating a majority of players to cater to the 1%?

This idea is absurd. People can have positions regarding economics that are based around more than just “GIMME IT ALL I WANT MORE THINGS MY WAY FORGET EVERYONE ELSE!!!”. Don’t just lump everybody who disagrees with you into a “greedy fat cat” group. You’ll be a better person if you don’t.

The TP is closest to a perfect competition market: identical goods, many sellers, many buyers, no individual deciding price, variable sources of production for each good, with no one individual having higher capacity than another. This perfect competition market isn’t just good for “bankers” (and please, for the love of all things, don’t let this be slang for Jews this time). It is good for everyone.

I demand proof. I want to see the numbers that prove that a few individuals are hoarding the items and dictating price as they see fit. Because in all of my trading, I have seen no evidence. When I was trying to get a precursor, I watched the price jump up and drop down 100 gold at a time, with availability swinging wildly. Whenever I’m buying materials, there’s always countless for sale at different prices and my low buy orders are met. When I was selling a relatively rare good (triforge pendants), I would enter into fierce selling wars with other sellers who were willing to pay the 17 gold it costs to re-list the darn pendant.

So you have the thousand gold available to just buy a precursor huh? And you are speculating using a 100 gold swing?

Somehow I don’t see you as being representative of the average casual paying guild wars customer.

At time of this posting, I have 48 gold. I spent awhile gathering money for a precursor, and I would check the price every day for precursors. The one I watched the most was The Colossus, and I watched it go from 930 gold to 820 gold in the span of time I was gathering money for it. Currently, the cheapest listing for Colossus is 825 gold, with the most expensive being some poor guy who listed it at 1,140 gold. There is no solid evidence any of these sellers are merchants who are manipulating the price in any direction. Maybe, and this is a long shot, the two 950 gold sales are owned by the same guy (who would then tragically be undercut 15 times), and if they were posted by the same guy they would be indicative of a merchant of some kind. But again, there’s no evidence that this isn’t two people who just matched orders.

I demanded evidence, and you have provided none.

Derenek.8931:

I think actual opinions of players regarding this is based on their virtual wealth demographic. Players with a ton of gold and are not greatly inconvenienced by inflation or price fixing will see little to no problem with the issue. Other players who don’t have a ton of gold will be highly inconvenienced by prices being set at prices too far above their ability to participate.

It happens in the real world as well. The wealthy, bankers, and speculators will always argue for deregulation. Normal people who can’t afford to live won’t be so laissez faire.

Right now the TP is run in the 1920’s laissez faire style. Which basically means it is not run at all. It is totally influenced by the rich players at the expense of poor players. However unlike the real world’s government, Anet doesnt have to be influenced by the rich. They need to be influenced by the actual demographics of their paying customers. What percentage of players actually have enough gold to play the game at a fun and participatory level?

Is it worth alienating a majority of players to cater to the 1%?

This idea is absurd. People can have positions regarding economics that are based around more than just “GIMME IT ALL I WANT MORE THINGS MY WAY FORGET EVERYONE ELSE!!!”. Don’t just lump everybody who disagrees with you into a “greedy fat cat” group. You’ll be a better person if you don’t.

The TP is closest to a perfect competition market: identical goods, many sellers, many buyers, no individual deciding price, variable sources of production for each good, with no one individual having higher capacity than another. This perfect competition market isn’t just good for “bankers” (and please, for the love of all things, don’t let this be slang for Jews this time). It is good for everyone.

I demand proof. I want to see the numbers that prove that a few individuals are hoarding the items and dictating price as they see fit. Because in all of my trading, I have seen no evidence. When I was trying to get a precursor, I watched the price jump up and drop down 100 gold at a time, with availability swinging wildly. Whenever I’m buying materials, there’s always countless for sale at different prices and my low buy orders are met. When I was selling a relatively rare good (triforge pendants), I would enter into fierce selling wars with other sellers who were willing to pay the 17 gold it costs to re-list the darn pendant.

You don’t understand. I’m a schemer. I have to plan ahead and make way for the future. Not knowing what to do later irritates me on an existential level.

I’m not posting the name, as I am paranoid and have made many enemies. But, I’m going to follow though the same tradition of Spanish first name + scientific plant name. My other Sylvari is named Salvador Drosera for reference.

This is something that irks me a lot. I’d really like to know how to unlock the elite specs. If I need a hundred + hero points, then I need to grind challenges on all of my toons.

Best? Chronomancer. The world will forever remember the day the chrono sets foot upon Tyria. Particularly because that day will happen two times in a row, but twice as fast.

Favorite? Tie between Reaper and Daredevil.

Behellagh.1468:

@Wanze

To summarize it’s a take on Confucius philosophy that those that contribute directly to society are more worthy than those that don’t. In the Edo era the order was Samurai, Peasants, Artisans, and lastly Merchants.

• Samurai are willing to die for society.
• Peasants grow the food for society and also fight.
• Artisans create the goods for society but aren’t needed for basic survival.
• And lastly Merchants who make their living on the backs of peasants and artisans and were looked at as parasites, profiting on the work of others.

And while peasants and artisans were relatively poor, some merchants became rich which reinforced the idea that they were merely parasites.

I suppose that’s why I’m not a confuscist… confucist… conflagarama whatever it is called. I’m going to paraphrase firefly here: Half the world are middle men.

The more technical term for it is entrepreneurship. The ideas and management that bring together and move all other resources are as important as any other job. To use feudal Japan as a reference: while farmers grow rice and samurai need the rice to fight wars, the rice has to get from point A to point B. Someone has to gather the rice, gather the means of transporting it, plan the transport, do logistics on how much rice can move how far and support how many soldiers. For that, you need someone who can do the math (and make no mistake, math is not an easy skill), someone who can talk to the farmers, woodsmen, craftsman, guides, governments generals,, whomever tends to the horses, someone who can see the big picture and has the wit to know what to do. Without them, the samurai don’t get their rice, and the whole system falls apart.

Separate section, not in response to Behellagh

Lets take the in-game example. What does the flipper do? Well, it depends on the kind of trade:

A)A straight flip: buy low and sell high. First the flipper has to compete with other flippers and non-merchants when placing a buy order, which establishes the low end value of any good. This places an offer: “Give me this good, and I will give you this much gold for it”. Here, the tradesman is giving money to other people. who are willing to sell. If the flipper has bought the good, then the flipper places the good at a higher price. This is often based on future speculation, since the flipper has to compete with other flippers and the taxes. Unlike buy orders, changing your mind here is punishing. Then, after the flipper has placed their good for sale, if the value of the good rises, then the non-merchants (or in cases of high swings, other merchants) will buy these now appropriately valued goods. Here, all the flipper is doing is providing: he gives gold to people who are willing to part with their item, and then he gives the item to people who are willing to part with their gold. In order for this to work, the price of the item has to rise on its own. So at the start of the flip it is a fair exchange, and at the end of the flip it is a fair exchange for the now more valuable item.

B)A crafting or conversion flip. This is my personal favorite, since it works under current market assumptions and isn’t based on speculation. In this case, the flipper will either buy low or high the base goods needed to craft a product, and then sell the crafted product later. While a straight flip just gambles on future price, a crafting/conversion flip creates an influx of new goods to meet the high demand of players. They create thin leather from rawhide, soft planks from green planks, small scales from tiny scales, and precursors from random exotics. Here, there is nothing taken. The demand of players is already proportional higher for these goods, and the tradesman is just giving players goods at prices they are already willing to pay.

For straight up flipping, several things happen. The flipper provides large influxes of gold into the economy for regular players, making most goods highly liquid. Competition drives the buy prices up, making most goods have at least some value. Competition also keeps sell prices low, so low that the range between highest bidder and lowest seller is often less than 15%, making same-day flipping impossible. The flipper makes a profit only if the market shifts their way. If it doesn’t, then the flipper loses money, and the people they buy from gain. So, take away type “A” flippers, and you are taking away large influx of gold that keeps the market moving, the high liquidity of most goods, the possibility to benefit from a downturn in a good’s value, the competition that both raises the buy price and lowers the sell price, and the game’s largest gold sink.

Getting rid of type “B” flippers is worse. Due to the differing demands in goods, the prices for things will swing wildly out of proportion, ending up with some goods that are so common no one will bother to buy them, and other goods that are so rare that no one will bother to sell them (at least at a reasonable price anyway). This also removes influxes of gold, high liquidity, convenience, competition, the possibility of non-flipper benefit from downturns, and the gold sink.

The gold sink thing can’t be said enough. It grows in proportion and is ever present. It is ironic that, the more flipping is done, the more valuable non-flipping methods of moneymaking become. “Grinding” has a linear growth in wealth, whereas flipping is geometric. The deflation of gold means that grinding becomes proportionally more valuable.

So my question is this: Who is being robbed? Who is being taken advantage of? What is “unfair” about this system? In type “A” things are being bought at a fair price, things are being sold at later fair price. It is a gamble: if the market turns up the flipper makes theoretical money, if the market turns down the non-flipper makes theoretical money. Heck, that technically isn’t even true for all cases, because if the price changes due to inflation/deflation of gold alone, then technically the item has the same value as all other goods. In type “B”, a flipper buys goods at a fair price then converts and sells them at another fair price immediately. Is the player who buys the finished good somehow being robbed, even though it is the player themselves who didn’t take the time to craft the material themselves?

I used to merch triforge pendants for a profit. I would buy 1,500 gold ore to make the pendant, usually at seller’s price due to how cheap it was. Did I rip them off? I would buy 250 of each orb, usually placing my own buy order, and adjusting the buy order higher and higher as other people tried to outbid me. Did I rip off the orb sellers then? Or about the mystic coins and crystaline dust, which I would also enter into bidding wars over. Did I rip those people off? How about the person who eventually bought the pendant after a week+ of waiting. Did I deceive this person in some way? Who, exactly, do I owe money to after doing this whole ordeal? Is the fact that I would earn 90 gold after waiting a week an unfair amount of cash?

Flipping isn’t a “free money” button. It is a gamble, and I’ve lost money on the markets personally. Flipping isn’t a deal with the devil, where money magically coagulates from the tears of naive children. It takes planning and work, and if you don’t work smart enough you don’t get money. Flipping doesn’t “take” money from people, or even take away from gaming experiences. In fact, the opposite is true: it adds to the gaming experience and gives people money. I fail to see any sort of inherent evil to buying low and then selling high.

Tabootrinket.2631:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Tabootrinket.2631:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

The funny part about all that is, I’ve ran the numbers a few times, and the staff is the highest damaging weapon thieves will have. It has the highest base auto attack, the highest DPS attack, the highest per-initiative damage, the highest AoE damage, and the highest modifiers attached to traits. All at the same time.

So when players say that the staff is low damaging or underpowered and it clearly isn’t… then I have to throw out their feedback as not being objective.

Numbers are bound to change for balance, and they will. Mechanism is another story.
So what will happen when those numbers get toned down ? The weapon gets forgotten.

I don’t buy it. The idea that staff is inadequate because in the future the staff may be nerfed just doesn’t make sense. You’re have to remember, the staff isn’t just max deeps. It is max deeps in every category: per initiative, on auto, at base, overall, and against multiple targets. For the staff to fall out of use, it would have to see every single category hit.

Here’s the thing, a single weapon isn’t supposed to supplant every other weapons (as you suggest the staff does). And each weapon is supposed to add a different “playstyle” compared to the others.
The staff as it is, doesn’t really provide what the others don’t. And that’s the main problem.
So as it is, the numbers in the staff weapon will either make it superior or inferior to other weapons which shouldn’t be the case. You should choose the staff (as you choose other weapons) because it provides another kind of tools, not because it makes the others obsolete.

The staff provides large AoE damage, a feature that isn’t present on any other thief weapon. Also massive weapon stacking and the ability to innately cure immobility.

Thaddeus.4891:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Thaddeus.4891:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

“Liquid” means the ability to be traded or exchanged. You can’t sell experience, so I imagine no, experience will not be nerfed.

No liquid is gold, silver and copper directly. It doesn’t mean stuff that can be traded or exchanged.

Gold is able to be traded or exchanged.

Yes and? That fact doesn’t change that loots isn’t liquidity. You are still wrong when you say liquid mean that ability to trade or exchange.

I can trade a Chicken just like I can trade a 10$ bill. But the chicken isn’t liquidity, only the 10$ bill is.

The chicken is liquid.

Thaddeus.4891:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

“Liquid” means the ability to be traded or exchanged. You can’t sell experience, so I imagine no, experience will not be nerfed.

No liquid is gold, silver and copper directly. It doesn’t mean stuff that can be traded or exchanged.

Gold is able to be traded or exchanged.

Tabootrinket.2631:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

The funny part about all that is, I’ve ran the numbers a few times, and the staff is the highest damaging weapon thieves will have. It has the highest base auto attack, the highest DPS attack, the highest per-initiative damage, the highest AoE damage, and the highest modifiers attached to traits. All at the same time.

So when players say that the staff is low damaging or underpowered and it clearly isn’t… then I have to throw out their feedback as not being objective.

Numbers are bound to change for balance, and they will. Mechanism is another story.
So what will happen when those numbers get toned down ? The weapon gets forgotten.

I don’t buy it. The idea that staff is inadequate because in the future the staff may be nerfed just doesn’t make sense. You’re have to remember, the staff isn’t just max deeps. It is max deeps in every category: per initiative, on auto, at base, overall, and against multiple targets. For the staff to fall out of use, it would have to see every single category hit.

“Liquid” means the ability to be traded or exchanged. You can’t sell experience, so I imagine no, experience will not be nerfed.

Firelysm.4967:

I’m not even dungeon runner, but i feel sorry for those that love doing dungeons, and still getting rewarded for it, but now they will be left out. What is happening right now is, that dungeons will get a decent nerf so that HoT content(NEW)¸will be more rewarded then Core (OLD) content.

But i wonder, why are Trading Post flippers still allowed to flip without punishment?

…

I just started skimming from there. Last I checked, trade is good for everyone because it is a positive sum game, flipping is beneficial for everyone, investors give money to the poor,, speculation is a fun but practical thought experiment, capital gains are a gamble, there is no inherent evil in buying low and selling high, and merchers don’t deserve punishment of any kind.

So, is there actually a point to be made here, or is the anti-trade stuff just the same ole’ paranoid tripe?

Right now I’m not sure dungeons can be salvaged. Ascalon Catacombs was heavily reworked in the past, and it still has the same problems.

Dungeons were designed under a set of naive assumptions by the devs: That Aesthetic pieces had no influence on the fight, and that players would stack and pound with maximum DPS. It seems like every week there is a new exploit that arises from dungeons, whether it is getting an enemy hooked on some corner, or bypassing content by glitching terrain. And after all that, the fight doesn’t last long, anyway.

To rework dungeons, they would basically have to be redesigned from scratch. Every enemy, every boss, every path, every room. When given the workload required to do this, it is more efficient to just leave dungeons where they are, and make new content.

The follower list is useful. It lets you know how many people are stalking you.

The funny part about all that is, I’ve ran the numbers a few times, and the staff is the highest damaging weapon thieves will have. It has the highest base auto attack, the highest DPS attack, the highest per-initiative damage, the highest AoE damage, and the highest modifiers attached to traits. All at the same time.

So when players say that the staff is low damaging or underpowered and it clearly isn’t… then I have to throw out their feedback as not being objective.

nekretaal.6485:

I hope John Smith has plans for Linen (other than a temp injection at Wintersday).

Linen is impossible to farm outside of a very narrow range and I imagine that the karma forge/salvagers and level 51 champ bag openers contribute a very significant % of the overall linen in the game.

I suppose that the t4 leather could be included in the discussion with linen now too.

Map specific rewards.

I still use frostbow sometimes. But now, I run arcane wave + arcane shield + glyph of elemental storms.

I would’ve loved having more stuff added to fractals if fractals retained their RNG like nature. Now, fractals are just mini dungeons, and adding fractals more fractals will change all the levels of those mini dungeons.

The “gear grind” for raids is overhyped. Once you’ve got ascended weapons and trinkets you’re nearly at full power.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Once again, we have a grind thread where no real discussion can take place because we all have a different definition of what grind is. lol

It is a bit worse than that. I started skimming for a bit, so I apologize if this hasn’t been explained.

Economics is a bit backwards in how it defines things. Particularly, while the layman would define “economics” as something like the study of trade, economists define economics as “the choices that people make dealing with scarcity”. While we see “scarcity” as meaning hard to find or rare, an economist sees scarcity as meaning a limited production rate or amount.

Smith’s concern being that, if we could easily get everything, then there wouldn’t be any trade. The production of any of the crafting materials has to be low enough that demand will outstrip supply. If not, then you end up with what happened to many of the mid-tier gemstones. In order to solve the current problem where lower and mid level materials are hard to get on max level players, they have to solve the new problem that map specific rewards will cause: over-abundance.

So salvaging will be nerfed, so that guaranteed farming can be created. Overall Anet doesn’t want the markets to go totally out of whack, as most things are in a good place right now. From the buyers perspective, things should even out to there being no difference in prices. From the sellers perspective, the mats you gain will be more from map specific events than from salvaging random stuff that fills your inventory.

The healing coefficients on most things are low because when this game was first launched, the devs were really afraid of making a healing trinity. It is a fair concern. As far as most MMOs go, healing is either extremely overpowered or extremely underpowered. The scales tip from one point to the other at the slightest of nudges.

As for GW2’s system, it was designed to have high base + low scaling to make it so every class was sufficient enough at healing themselves. While the scaling on most skills appears low, the percentage return you get on non-#6 skills is pretty high. For example regeneration heals 130 HPS with no healing power, but with 900 healing power it heals for243 HPS, which is an 87% increase in the effectiveness of regeneration.

Most alternate heals are like this. Heals that apply to groups or apply regeneration have a higher percentage increase for healing power. This is to make healing power a supportive stat moreso one you invest in to become superbunker.

I didn’t do numbers this time, but I do have a memory.

Last I had checked, reaper shroud AA had a tooltip DPS (with onslaught) of around 428, while dagger AA is around 448. Big note here, these values may have changed. Anyway, this puts the dagger auto at 4.7% higher damage than onslaught.

Generally I consider anything within 5% to be “roughly equal”, since the variance in damage output is 10% natively. This was with Reaper’s Onslaught equipped, so I was assuming a PVE setting where the extra sustain from Blighter’s Boon wasn’t needed. Upcoming content may change that fact, but needing extra sustain also makes sitting in shroud more useful. So it is a fair trade.

The quality of RS 1 is highly dependent on what you put into it. If you go into spite, it stacks might on auto. Rending Shroud, it passively stacks vulnerability. Unyielding Blast, it actively stacks a lot of vulnerability. Death’s Perception, it gets +50% chance to crit. Dhuumfire, it causes 1 × 3 burning on every target. Onslaught, increase all attack dependent effects by 15%. Blighter’s Boon, +130 health when traited in Spite.

If you make a build like curses/blood magic/reaper, you won’t get much from RS 1. If you make a build like Spite/Soul Reaping/Reaper, you’ll get a whole lot.

When talking about DPS, are we assuming a solo boss encounter with no adds? Because otherwise, epidemic hits really hard.

A lot of people are forgetting just how much personal healing the reaper has. Blighter’s boon gives massive amounts of self healing and life force generation with team support. Chilling Force adds even more life force generation, vampiric traits add more health generation, unholy sanctuary adds regen while in DS, etc. and so on.

As far as everything else goes…

#1: I’m going to throw my hat into the “more defense” option for weakening strikes. Even if this isn’t a condi specific option, it is still useful in condi builds. Likewise, with a relatively high reliance on brawler’s tenacity for endurance regen, this provides a non-endurance option for defense.

#2: I love that Fist Flurry, AKA Pai Mei’s Five point Palm Exploding Heart Technique, just keeps getting buffs. Right now I’m getting anywhere from 1k to 1.2k tooltip DPS per use, making it 38% more damage than perfect weakening charge spam.

#3: The impact strike chain still needs a buff. Reduce aftercast by 1 second and increase the damage by 50%. This will give it usability at any point in the fight instead of just the end. Also, this will give it usability over Basilisk Venom in PVE.

#4: Impairing Daggers and Distracting Daggers should still be 100% projectile finishers. This adds a bit more usability to them, particularly the ability to blind when used through a smoke field.

Nike.2631:

Karl McLain.5604:

• Lotus Training: In addition to granting access to the Impaling Lotus dodge ability, the thief will gain 10% bonus condition damage for 4 seconds after dodging.

Question: Do caltrop ticks snapshot the thief’s condition damage? In other words will this fail to affect caltrops generated by Uncatchable?

I’m not exactly sure what you are asking, but last I checked condition damage was calculated dynamically between ticks. If this is just a straight up mod to condi damage, then yes it will apply to any previously applied condis.

There’s not much to stop a reaper tank. A reaper would actually be quite good at it, since they don’t need to rely on team support.

The OP lists several conclusions I came to awhile ago.

Most Scrappers won’t take sneak gyro because it is bad. The pulse can be dodged, is easily baited, and is only a drawback if stealth is being used defensively. The gyro itself is cumbersome, easily killed, and extremely limited in application. Even given all that, the sneak gyro isn’t even the best counter to thieves.

Back when I played engi, the one-button answer to thieves was the supply crate. Sneak gyro just puts reveal on you. The supply crate is pocket point control, stunning and littering the field full of everything a thief doesn’t wan to see during an engagement. Any disabling condis a thief places gets cleansed, the damage healed, the location unfavorable for combat, and on top of that the thief gets disabled and counter-burst pretty hard. The best part about supply crate is that it works against every class.

What I find interesting about all this despair is that I’ve heard it all before. It was on the necro forum. It was on the memser forum. It was on the ranger forum (still is, kind of). It was on the ele forum. It was on the warrior forum. It is currently on the guardian forum. It was on the engi forum, too, and they’re the most chill forum. Throughout this game’s life, there has been several points on every single forum where the class collectively jumps onto the all is vain train and convulses violently on the floor, hoping that it will get the devs to love them a little bit more.

It is the exact same arguments, too. “Oh, I came up with a bunch of things that I wanted and the devs didn’t do what I want so the devs don’t love me!!!”. Follow through with the same “X does better than my class”, “I’m quitting my class”, “If it weren’t for X we wouldn’t even be viable”, so on and so forth. No introspection, no concern for other classes, no self doubt. Times like this I resent the fact that the internet is mostly mid-pubescent teenagers.

And every time it is wrong. The class gets buffed while others get nerfed, and then there is a wave of “this class is OP bring it down!” for the next several weeks. It has happened to every class, sometimes multiple times. The doom and gloom was wrong the last dozen times it happened, it is wrong now, and it will be wrong the next dozen times it happens. It feels like I’m the only guy with a memory here.

So, what makes the thief so special, where other classes (Rangers and Guards, in particular) are worse off and have more legitimate complaints in all forms of the game? When other classes were in objectively worse positions throughout GW2 history? So far, only that thieves whine the hardest.

Yeah, not going to happen. This game is already pretty alt friendly. There’s little reason to completely ditch your current class when making a whole other toon is free.

I made this post in another thread, but it belongs here as well:

As always, these numbers are acquired in PVP with no gear equipped and with no modifying traits equipped. These are the effective “baseline” values for 1000 power exotic. First the reference numbers:

Bomb: 444. 5 targets, 240 radius, 1 second fuse. 0.5 seconds listed per attack. 0.84 seconds between actual attacks. 529 DPS.
Grenade: 117. 3 grenades, 5 targets 0.5 seconds listed attack speed. 1 second actual attack speed. 351 DPS.

Smack: 284. 2 × 6 vuvlnerability per hit. 1 × 2 cripple per hit. 3 targets. 0.5 listed activation time.
Whack: Identical to Smack
Thwack: 622. 1 × 2 cripple per hit. 1 target. 1 second listed activation time.
Total attack speed: 3.23 seconds.
Total Tooltip DPS: 368

Hip Shot: 266. 0.75 listed activation time. 0.84 actual activation time. Tooltip DPS: 317
Flame Jet: 890. 1 × 2 burning. 2.25 seconds listed activation time. 2.57 seconds actual activation time. 346 tooltip DPS.

And now the hammer.

Positive Strike: 313. 1 × 8 might 3 targets, 130 range, 0.5 second listed activation time.
Negative Bash: 313, 1 × 8 vulnerability, 3 targets, 130 range, 0.5 second listed activation time
Equalizing Blow: 391, 1 × 8 might, 1 × 8 vulnerability. 3 targets. 130 range.
Total Attack Speed for the auto attack: 3.1 seconds.
Total tooltip DPS (no buffs): 328

I’ll leave the balance philosophy to others, as I don’t play engi anymore. But currently the only thing that’s any good about the auto attack are the might/vuln. The might/vuln isn’t particularly spectacular once you factor in traits, so at base I’d suggest maybe a 25-33% increase to auto damage.

Now for other hammer skills:
Electro-Whirl: 430 per hit, 860 total. 3 targets, 180 radius, reflects missiles. x1 whirl finisher. 1 second listed activation time. Closer to 1.25 seconds actual time. 6 second cooldown.
Rocket Charge: 1,173 damage per 3 hits. 5 targets. 240 radius. x2 leap finisher. 1 second evade. 100 range. 1.75 second listed activation time. Closer to 2.25 seconds actual activation time. 10 second cooldown.
Shock Shield: 975 damage over kittens. 10 × 5 vulnerability. 5 targets. 2 second block. 170 range. 1.75 listed activation time. Closer to 2 seconds actual time. 20 second cooldown
Thunderclap: 1,410 damage over 6 hits.. 1 × 8 vulnerability per hit. 1 second stun on activation. 1 second interval per pulses. 240 radius. Lightning field. 1200 range. 24 second cooldown. 0.75 listed activation time. Closer to 1.5 seconds actual activation time.

Electro Whirl DPS: 688
Rocket Charge DPS: 521
Shock Shield DPS: 488
Thunderclap DPs: 940

At least electro whirl and thunderclap beat out bomb auto. For further references:

Jump Shot: 368 leap damage, 735 landing damage, 3 × 7 vulnerability per hit, 5 targets, 240 radius. Leap Finisher. 20 second cooldown. 1 second listed activation time. 1.5 seconds real activation time. DPS: 735
Blunderbuss: 654, 572, 490, 409 depending on range. 4 × 5 bleed, 3 × 5 bleed, 2 × 5 bleed, 1 × 5 bleed depending on range. 5 targets, 700 range (250 for max damage), 10 second cooldown. 0.5 second listed activation time. Closer to 1 second real activation time. 654 DPS + Bleeds

So I guess from a burst skills standpoint, the hammer does beat out the rifle in direct damage. 940 + 688 is better than 735 + 654 + bleeds.

But overall yeah, I reflect a lot of the sentiments here now. The hammer is too slow and the skills are a bit wonky. Total suggestions for the weapon:

#1: Increase the AA speed of the hammer to 2.3-2.5 seconds. This is a 33% to 25% buff in damage, along with a 33% to 25% buff in might/vuln stacking.
#2: Have electro whirl be at least 3 whirl finishers. Have electro whirl reflect projectiles from all directions.
#3: Increase the damage of Rocket Charge by 33%. Make the first leap a leap finisher as well.

Thunderclap and shock shield are fine

So what proof is there of all this hopelessness?

This definitely sounds interesting. I’m willing to try anything other than current acro at this point.

Though I would like boon stealing to be in there somewhere. Thieves need more of it IMO.

There’s a crap ton of counter-play in the dodges. Think of it logically: AoE damage + leap finisher, large AoE bleed/torment/cripple + whirl finisher, and high speed + swiftness + disabling condi cleanse are not equally applicable to every build of all classes in every composition of either team.

This video reminds me of why I don’t PVP anymore. I’ll never have that kind of coordination or speed.

Well, what other forum held an in-game funeral for their entire class?

Malthurius.6870:

All that matters is that the raid itself knows what’s going on; raiding isn’t meant to be a spectator sport. My group fighting the vale guardian had no problem recognizing mechanics and AE during the fight.

That’s the problem. Watching the videos, the effects were so bright and huge that I couldn’t see the circles many times. I’m hoping that it is because the players didn’t turn down LoD and post processing, but if that is what it looks like even after reductions, then I am not looking forward to raids.

babazhook.6805:

Again while I think a toggle warranted, I think what we have as dodge traits now in that spec can qualify as GM traits. As they exist now and especially Unhindered Combat they are GM+.

If they put the dodges as they exist today on a toggle and than add more GM traits they will have to weaken one or the other as the spec in comparative terms will be too much.

THAT said it also my opinion that all of these specs in comparitive terms across all the classes tend to be more powerful then exisiting specs. This might be a first glance thing and it might be they appear more powerful because they are new but it does throw a crimp in the plans to create a wider build variety.

Basically this. Aside form lotus being bugged, as by default it shouldn’t be attacking when not in combat, the elite spec is being balanced under its current mechanical assumptions. Everything on the DD is already solid, and I have the numbers to back that assertion up. If we were to just give more to the spec, then it is highly likely that DD will receive nerfs to bring it in line with other e-specs and other thief spec lines.

What the “reasonable people” (ill defined term as it is) people are asking for is souped up version of evasive arcana to be made baseline, along with 3 new grandmaster worthy traits to choose from. There are a couple of ways this can be done:

#1: Dodges can’t be changed within combat This is the best way to go about it, since it is functionally identical to our current grandmasters… bar two notes. Last I had checked, utilities and builds were locked in PVP tournaments. To be “fair” the dodges would also have to be locked, otherwise from engagement to engagement the daredevil would just counter-rotate their dodge to beat whatever class they are going to engage, or whatever comp the enemies are using. Second, with 3 new grandmasters to choose from the class will get even more versatility and unpredictability. Should the devs feel that this is too much, we’ll be hit with a nerf.

#2: Dodges can be changed within combat, but there is a cooldown between swaps. This has all of the problems of #1, but none of the solutions. A DD will still have immediate access to every dodge as it is demanded. The only difference is that, should the “demand” change fast enough, the DD might not have the ability to revert access. From the practical standpoint, any build is going to alternate between two dodges and will just sit on top of its primary dodge until the other one is desired, so barring the more extenuating circumstances there won’t be a situation where the DD is without the tool they need to use. Add on 3 extra grandmasters, and the spec will receive nerfs.

I’ve already heard other ideas. Personally I like the idea of making Escapists Absolution a minor, either merging it with Driven Fortitude or swapping the traits and buffing Driven Fortitude. I like this one, because it opens up the master tier to two traits that, while significant in power, will never be taken over the 10/10 Escapists Absolution.

Another idea I like is reducing trait-specific endurance generation and giving the DD a 50% baseline increase in endurance regen and maximum endurance. Basically perma vigor. A minor issue with the Daredevil is that all of the endurance regeneration, while already theoretically massive, is wired into Brawler’s Tenacity (particularly with Channeled Vigor), Staff Mastery, and Endurance Thief. To get the most out of the dodges, you have to be using particular physical skills with their trats, a particular weapon with its trait, and steal boosting traits. But with the soft perma-vigor change, you can open up the endurance gaining traits to do new things, increasing the power of every potential DD build. This idea is harder, though, since it requires more creativity on the part of the devs, and the players will hate it if they don’t like what is put in.

Maybe I would be more enthusiastic about the dodge toggle if there were good suggestions for the grandmasters that were opened up.

Lociaz.4027:

Hello folks!
I havent read all comments but…

The passive trait Driven Fortitude in Daredevil.
It dosent work at all while im evading attacks.
But the condi removal works good.

I tested this. Driven Fortitude does heal. However, it doesn’t appear in the combat log.

As for the chill thing: I guess this is more of a personal preference. From a PVE perspective the likelyhood of being near a chronomancer is high, while the likelyhood of being subjected to chill beyond innate cleansing is very low. As far as PVP goes, I guess we’ll have to weight those to together: chilled beyond cleansing vs. a chronomancer is around.

So… since no one responded, I’m assuming that no one has the numbers. Well, never fear, for I am here! As always, these numbers are acquired in PVP with no gear equipped and with no modifying traits equipped. These are the effective “baseline” values for 1000 power exotic. First the reference numbers:

Bomb: 444. 5 targets, 240 radius, 1 second fuse. 0.5 seconds listed per attack. 0.84 seconds between actual attacks. 529 DPS.
Grenade: 117. 3 grenades, 5 targets 0.5 seconds listed attack speed. 1 second actual attack speed. 351 DPS.

Smack: 284. 2 × 6 vuvlnerability per hit. 1 × 2 cripple per hit. 3 targets. 0.5 listed activation time.
Whack: Identical to Smack
Thwack: 622. 1 × 2 cripple per hit. 1 target. 1 second listed activation time.
Total attack speed: 3.23 seconds.
Total Tooltip DPS: 368

Hip Shot: 266. 0.75 listed activation time. 0.84 actual activation time. Tooltip DPS: 317
Flame Jet: 890. 1 × 2 burning. 2.25 seconds listed activation time. 2.57 seconds actual activation time. 346 tooltip DPS.

And now the hammer.

Positive Strike: 313. 1 × 8 might 3 targets, 130 range, 0.5 second listed activation time.
Negative Bash: 313, 1 × 8 vulnerability, 3 targets, 130 range, 0.5 second listed activation time
Equalizing Blow: 391, 1 × 8 might, 1 × 8 vulnerability. 3 targets. 130 range.
Total Attack Speed for the auto attack: 3.1 seconds.
Total tooltip DPS (no buffs): 328

I’ll leave the balance philosophy to others, as I don’t play engi anymore. But currently the only thing that’s any good about the auto attack are the might/vuln. The might/vuln isn’t particularly spectacular once you factor in traits, so at base I’d suggest maybe a 25-33% increase to auto damage.

Now for other hammer skills:
Electro-Whirl: 430 per hit, 860 total. 3 targets, 180 radius, reflects missiles. x1 whirl finisher. 1 second listed activation time. Closer to 1.25 seconds actual time. 6 second cooldown.
Rocket Charge: 1,173 damage per 3 hits. 5 targets. 240 radius. x2 leap finisher. 1 second evade. 100 range. 1.75 second listed activation time. Closer to 2.25 seconds actual activation time. 10 second cooldown.
Shock Shield: 975 damage over kittens. 10 × 5 vulnerability. 5 targets. 2 second block. 170 range. 1.75 listed activation time. Closer to 2 seconds actual time. 20 second cooldown
Thunderclap: 1,410 damage over 6 hits.. 1 × 8 vulnerability per hit. 1 second stun on activation. 1 second interval per pulses. 240 radius. Lightning field. 1200 range. 24 second cooldown. 0.75 listed activation time. Closer to 1.5 seconds actual activation time.

Electro Whirl DPS: 688
Rocket Charge DPS: 521
Shock Shield DPS: 488
Thunderclap DPs: 940

At least electro whirl and thunderclap beat out bomb auto. For further references:

Jump Shot: 368 leap damage, 735 landing damage, 3 × 7 vulnerability per hit, 5 targets, 240 radius. Leap Finisher. 20 second cooldown. 1 second listed activation time. 1.5 seconds real activation time. DPS: 735
Blunderbuss: 654, 572, 490, 409 depending on range. 4 × 5 bleed, 3 × 5 bleed, 2 × 5 bleed, 1 × 5 bleed depending on range. 5 targets, 700 range (250 for max damage), 10 second cooldown. 0.5 second listed activation time. Closer to 1 second real activation time. 654 DPS + Bleeds

So I guess from a burst skills standpoint, the hammer does beat out the rifle in direct damage. 940 + 688 is better than 735 + 654 + bleeds.

But overall yeah, I reflect a lot of the sentiments here now. The hammer is too slow and the skills are a bit wonky. Total suggestions for the weapon:

#1: Increase the AA speed of the hammer to 2.3-2.5 seconds. This is a 33% to 25% buff in damage, along with a 33% to 25% buff in might/vuln stacking.
#2: Have electro whirl be at least 3 whirl finishers. Have electro whirl reflect projectiles from all directions.
#3: Increase the damage of Rocket Charge by 33%. Make the first leap a leap finisher as well.

Thunderclap and shock shield are fine

I just wish I could tell what was going on. I watched a few of the videos, and it looks like the hardest part of this raid will be the gigantic flashing lights obstructing the view.

ArthurDent.9538:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

That’s the one problem with the way the Reaper is designed. Since it has no disengage, it has to be the most powerful in a straight up brawl. Otherwise, the Reaper will never be played. The class that beats the reaper will be played, since the reaper will automatically lose once seeing that class.

This is true except for one thing. Since reaper is pretty tanky, if the counter class can’t burst it down quickly, and just wins in a drawn out sustained battler, then reaper can still be viable, It will have time to get support from allies if stuck in an unfavorable match up, allowing it to not be farmed constantly, and still useful in the areas it excels.

True, but that’s not what I mean. When I say “straight up brawl”, I mean two classes engaging each other directly, trying to kill the other class first and as quickly as possible. Basically if the reaper and another class were to try and melee each other to death, the reaper has to win.