engineers just want some love with the kits getting some of our weapon stats (or any +stats)… everything else is just a minor tweak
The kick feature can’t be used during combat and while the person is in the cutscene? This would result in them still getting the reward after the final boss? I suppose they could kick them beforehand
It’s one of the few bosses that forced me to rethink my playstyle and ultimately for the better. Maybe I don’t boast big numbers, but I bring a lot more to the table in conditions, support, and endurance regen…. I feel like dungeons have helped me create a more balanced character as well as hone my skills.
At least with the rifle our dmg is paltry unless we’re shooting point-blank to use skills 3 and 5 (which sort of defeats the purpose of the rifle’s range)…. the kits is another story.
Lowest rDPS? Maybe you haven’t been introduced to the engineer; the “2nd best” at everything class.
Perhaps…
I can only speak as an engineer since it’s my only toon with dungeon experience. The tool kits give me a huge range of versatility and I’m constantly swapping for the team.
Rifle to immobilize and knockback enemies
Health kits to but down health packs and condition removals
Elixir gun to put down healing area and cripple (occassionally use as a jump back to escape dmg)
Grenade kit to dmg, bleed, keep up high stacks of vulnerability, slow, poison
Now not everyone has this flexibility in their professions… so there is some use of the skill bar in picking the right utilities and weapon skills for the task at hand. In terms of HP, i agree esp. when the fights only offer 1 phase. 3-5 minutes per phase should be sufficient.
Vigor or things to increase your endurance quickly go a long way… Implemented some of this with my engineer and I hardly ever get downed (and yes, I wear all berserker though I do have some +vit thanks to the alchemy trait line).
Not sure engineers really got nerfed… The grenades underwater were OP, and we’re already pretty strong underwater without the kit.
Would love my kits to either have stats based on my weapon (since I can only have one equipped) or buff a stat depending on which kit is equipped.
Too bad that vid only shows from a mesmer perspective… Those numbers are roughly what I’m putting up with my grenades, maybe a tad less.
@Dark
You’re analogy is talking about finite manufactured goods sold by a legit vendor/producer vs. people stealing those goods and selling them…
Bots aren’t stealing anything, they’re just making a certain amount of gold over time and selling you the cost of “labor”; the illegal part is them running scripts and selling in-game items on third party sites.
Anet doesn’t manufacture or labor to make gold… it’s a matter of click and here ya go. Anet is able to add any amount of money into the system because the resource pool for gold is infinite. Them being able to give out money is way way faster than bots being able to produce that same amount. The problem is that Anet set their prices to a point that is greater than what bots are setting it at. I’m sure they figured that price point will help maximize revenue… but clearly assuming if they’re the sole distributor; that they have a monopoly on the system. The fact is they don’t have a monopoly since, there’s clear competition and no real way to remove it permanently.
You can either bemoan how it’s unfair and qq or you can figure out how to beat the bots. Coding doesn’t work so maybe economics might? Is a botter gonna run his computer for 8 hours to make $1 profit (dramatic example but just trying to make the point)?
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Normally you’d combat other sellers by driving prices down to a point where the costs of them doing business is prohibitively high or there’s just little incentive to compete in the market…
Obviously they wrote the code and run the program, so there’s little added work. But if you compete with them and drive your prices down, then it creates less incentive for buyers to buy from the competition because the only thing they can offer is cheap prices, whereas you can offer the same + a secure transaction and such.
Say what you will about Blizz with it’s RMAH system, but after more than a decade of combating this issue, it actually was a smart play in being able to get in on the action a bit by offering a secure platform. Not saying Anet should necessarily go down this path, but it’s almost impossible to defeat the bots without really intrusive measures.
They’re hard at first, but once you learn them they’re fairly easy to rinse and repeat with minimal death…. Most of my experience has been such. They’re like an investment where you have to sink capital (time and money) in order to learn them because once you know how to do them you can make pretty good money and tokens off them. I do agree that some encounters are unnecessarily long when they’re only 1-phase fights.
But to say it can be exclusionary when partying up I find somewhat true. You don’t need all 80’s and vent, but you do need to listen, cooperate with each other, and be ready to do things you might not be accustomed to doing with your toon. The exclusion is not just level and vent availability but classes. I’ve had people turn me down just cause I’m an engineer (with no other engineers in their party)… like seriously?
They have a lfg tab, but it’s hidden and you can’t specify what ur lfg for…. GW1 had this so people could find folks, see what they were looking to do, message them and then make a group or not. You don’t necessarily need to slap folks together randomly, but at least make it easier to formulate groups.
It really is lame having to wait in the specific zone or Lion’s Arch just so you can be in the correct map chat to find folks who are trying to form parties for a specific dungeon. I don’t think a global chat would help, but something so that I can be anywhere on the map and be able to look for groups that wanna do any particular dungeons; regardless of whether they’re in the zone or not. I should be free to play in Malchor’s Leap and be able to formulate a party using a GW1-type LFG system in order to setup a party for CoE or CoF or whatever.
@ Strato
that’s what I’m saying… I know there are some groups that can pull of the dungeons as-is, but that doesn’t mean flawed stats are flawed stats. I’m not saying that +healing should be so OP that I can heal through a fight, but +900 healing should give me a lot more on a heal than 200 extra points or so (direct heal).
I’ve actually pointed this out once or twice, but my post gets deleted usually…. so hopefully it won’t this time.
The DR system is designed to combat a problem; a developer/company problem. The system in place affects all players, legit or exploiters. This system basically shifts part of the burden of this problem onto gamers when it’s completely not our problem. This system does not stop exploiters for the reasons previously stated…. a botter can simply enter different parameters for the bot to login, run program, logout, wait X minutes, rinse and repeat; it merely slows them down.
Speed runs, bot and exploits suck and do need to be addressed sooner rather than later, but the DR system shouldn’t be the permanent solution.
Meh… I’d worry more about the balance of defensive stats in general more than “oh noes, my mesmer can’t wear heavy armor”. As it stands, toughness and +healing give you almost nothing for investing in them whereas all the offensive stats give you so much more return for investing in them.
Toughness works well in the overworld or when you’re taking numerous direct hits… but when those hits are mostly one-two shot mechanics (specifically in the dungeons where even trash can hit real hard for a “basic attack”), toughness isn’t all that helpful.
Don’t even get me started on +healing…
I understand they don’t want you tanking and healing through a fight, especially in dungeons, but don’t trivialize the stat…. A dungeon mob or boss “basic attack”, assuming they’re moves are not telegraphed, shouldn’t hit a decked out warrior/guardian for a ton of damage; but go ahead and let the more telegraphed move and specific one-shot mechanics should do a lot of damage.
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I agree with the events giving different amounts of karma. The defending Arah gates, which is on a long fixed timer, gives you the same karma as something that takes much less time.
Not sure how possible this is, but for chain events…. players get bonus karma the more they participate in the chain. So if I do a chain start to finish, and it’s 5 parts, I get the karma from the events + a substantial bonus (let’s say it’s like a multiplier effect, so that after the first event I get 50% more from the second, 100% more from the third, etc. etc.). Smaller chains give smaller bonuses.
Im sure something like this would be implemented eventually but for now they are just focused on getting the game sorted.
How this somehow didn’t manifest originally is somewhat perplexing. Yes, I want the game sorted out before they try implementing this, but at the same time I kinda wonder why it’s not their to begin with.
I like them though I think some could use a tweak….
Subject Alpha comes to mind in particular, not so much the mechanic of the fight, but that it takes so long to down him yet nothing in the fight changes. Yes, WoW has long fights, but those are usually comprised of multiple phases. We get what we have to do for Subject Alpha, why does it have to take 10 minutes of the same thing though?
Hence dynamic though… as in it takes more triggers than a server timer to unlock the event. Every zone has it’s big event(s) and sure maybe some of those triggers need to be fixed (like X escort quests and this and that)… but they could happen at random times (random number generator on the timer selecting from a few possibilities) and at random pre-determined spawn points. So while the big event might be fixed, getting to it is highly unpredictable.
@ Calavera
True, but ditching the paradigm doesn’t mean putting an overemphasis on offensive stats for defensive ones. There should be give and take, pros and cons, to every stat so that they’re all useful to a player; it’s just a matter of finding the right mix that suits to your style of play.
@ Mayam
Some of those need a little tweaking imo…. I think most of those life steal sigils and such are like +10 life per hit. Even the 6/6 Superior Rune of the Doylak, which gives a passive regen, is like 30 health per tick. These are meager to the point of being useless. I understand they don’t want us just tanking and healing through a fight, but you can at least make these abilities somewhat useful.
Professions that can use melee weapons (and legit use them, not like the mesmer with the 2H greatsword) should have more endurance or faster endurance gain (maybe even a certain percentage gain per hit) or some combination of two… but only while they’re using melee weapons. May not be the best solution, but it at least gives them more opportunity to minimize damage intake.
There may not need to be a holy trinity, but there’s certainly an over emphasis inherent in the way offensive stats benefit you. I understand they don’t want you to be able to tank or heal your way through a fight, but to almost trivialize those types of stats is lame.
Here’s an example:
About combo healing (tested in the mists, every value at least 2 times):
350 healing power – 1390
1223 healing power – 1565
+900 healing and only +200 on a heal? Why even have it then if you’ve basically made it extremely worthless? +900 to any other stat would be an enormous difference…. even toughness although it has diminishing returns.
30 heal per tick on a superior rune? That’s just garbage. Most regenerate boons, traits, whatever, tick in the 100s. Make it competitive with those sources?
It’d be nice though if the +healing stat actually gave you bang for your buck. As an engineer, when I read forums saying things like….
About combo healing (tested in the mists, every value at least 2 times):
350 healing power – 1390
1223 healing power – 1565
Almost +900 to healing for 200 heal off a combo-healing that’s not easy to pull off? +900 to just about any other stat is infinitely more useful than that.
I can kinda understand why our kits don’t have the mainhand stats since our kits are basically our second (and possibly third or more) weapon set…. but at the same time, they have no stats. It would be interesting if wearing kits also boosted a stat by a certain percentage… So like, the grenade kit would be +10% to precision or something like that.
Sometimes it’s the timing for me… I’ll be in mid-dodge or initiate the dodge just as the object leave the enemy (assuming it’s fast, for slower things I let it get about midway or closer) yet the mob ability still makes contact somehow.
I can somewhat understand this… I was trying to help a buddy get this vista in that dredge area near the SE dungeon… Those dredge guys kept popping out of the woodwork so fast it was almost impossible to move forward without grabbing another boatload of mobs. For me, it wasn’t a problem due to my gear/lvl and setup, but I could see it being problematic for my friend.
You have wps and every class has some swiftness skill…. if you just wanna go from A to B, then swap some things around to make it happen.
Yes, wps can be pricey but if you take a little detour every know and then to gather ore/wood, whatever crafting mats are sellable on the TP, you can recoup those losses easily.
My only gripe is how your movement speed slows down while in combat (or at least it seems that way).
Instead of putting up some generic nonsense say exactly what your issue is with the DR system and why and how it actually effects your gameplay. And please be honest
I guess I could use examples, but I think most of this forum has plenty of examples of how it affects legitimate player gameplay.
Can I flip the question around and ask you why you think what I said is nonsense and generic? How is botting or exploits mine or any other player’s problem? It may impact us in some way, but that doesn’t make it our problem. If an airplane’s engines blowout, is it the passenger’s responsibility to make sure the plane lands safely?
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To be honest though…. this game doesn’t exactly do a good job at teaching people with this “trained MMO mindset” what GW2 is all about until you hit a dungeon (which I think is too late given some of the dungeon mechanics). GW1 did a better job at getting players acclimated to it’s mechanics before they even hit dungeons, GW2 almost takes it for granted that the player is familiar with this song and dance.
Might have to buy some pink from the TP (I guess I’ve been lucky/unlucky in grabbing that color), but it’s for a good cause…
But don’t you folks go jacking up the prices now.
It’s as simple as that… D3 justified it’s DRM for almost similar reasons as Anet’s DR system. But guess what? These problems are company problems. Their solutions, which are almost draconian in design, now shift some of the burden of these problems onto players…. and inhibit more legitimate players to play the game as they see fit than they do the players who take advantage.
Let me make this clear…
*BOTTING, EXPLOITS, SPEED RUNS, ETC….. ARE NOT OUR (the players) PROBLEMS TO DEAL WITH ESPECIALLY WHEN WE (the players) HAVE NO RESPONSIBILITY OR CONTROL OVER HOW TO DEAL WITH SAID ISSUES! *
Our problems should be some of the following:
- how do we clear this dungeon path?
- what’s the best way for me to play this profession?
- how are we gonna take over this garrison?
- where the kitten are these orichalcum veins?
… see a general trend in these questions? Our problems should only relate to the content and mechanics of the game.
I do think it’s important to address these issues as they be can harmful to players and the world you’ve created and I know how important it is to address these issues ASAP… But developers should be mindful of the repercussions of their solutions and respect the boundaries between player and developer; especially in where one places the burden of particular issues.
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Rather than me waiting for them to fix it, why don’t they disable the DR and fix it? Why should I not play content I paid for because their end isn’t delivering to fix their problems? Bots and speed runs is a company problem, their solution is simply shifting it so that these problems are also players’ problems.
And just like how they disabled grubb’n while they were working on the DR to begin with, reduce the token rewards while you fix the DR. It maybe reduced, but at least I know going in what to expect rather than arbitrarily getting short changed.
I like the dungeon challenges and think they really sharpen my understanding of the game mechanics, professions I play, and how they work with other professions. It’ll be nice once the reward mechanisms are all sorted out and working properly.
As for the dungeons not seeming to be lucrative… think of it as an investment. I was doing AC yesterday and thinking after a couple of deaths “kitten, I’m wasting so much gold on this” only to realize after looting a boss (not the chest, the actual boss), I just got 5s + items. After repairing and looking at my gold amount in the inventory, I actually had made a profit just in coin drops; not much but something. As you invest in a dungeon, you get more familiar with it and tweak a few things to minimize dying…. all of this yielding more profit.
Yes, the upfront costs can seem harsh, but the returns on your investment if you stick with it and get better at the dungeon can definitely make it all worthwhile. That ROI is going to be dependent on the player… and some simply won’t see that ROI in their favor. That’s fine, not all dungeons and paths are gonna be cleared by every player; just don’t give up on all of them outright.
I guess my first post doesn’t really answer the question… in terms of a grind, I guess that depends. If everything was working properly, you could get an entire set of exotic armor in about 7 full runs; 11+ runs if you also want weapons. The tokens are account bound so you’ve basically done upfront work to fully gear a different toon once they hit 80. You can “grind” for armor running dungeons or “grind” through farming…. they’re just alternative means to getting the same thing (in terms of stats). I personally prefer dungeons to farming for crafting mats and if I run a dungeon properly, I can earn enough coin to buy mats and still make a profit in the end; which opens up to more accessibility to gear to switch around and see what the “optimal” balance is.
I guess that’s grindy? Idk, it’s a matter of perspective I guess. I would say no, but I also have experienced games that embody the term “grind fest” a lot more than this game.
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I forget how exactly the WoW mechanics work, but the idea is that you (and/or someone in your group) can only reset the dungeons a certain amount of time per hour. So if you’re clearing the entire thing pretty quickly, you probably won’t trigger it… but if you’re speed running one part, you might trigger it.
I suppose this system opens up to folks getting more tokens per day potentially, but it doesn’t arbitrarily punish those who are running the dungeons legit. Yes, I know the current system is bugged, but it also has a lot negative externalities beyond its intent.
I like them because they’re a challenge that really makes you think about the mechanics of the game more… I have all exotics as it stands, but I wanna try different pieces and find the right balance of dps/survival. Gear will only go so far so I have to think about my traits and skills. How will these help my dps and survive-ability, as well as provide support for the group?
I came into the game as an engineer thinking I was gonna be fine with this one build and set of gear I conceived from the get-go, which seemed to work well for a long time. As I started doing more dungeons, both in terms of quantity and diversity, I noticed that maybe what I was doing wasn’t as effective as I originally thought. My new build, after spending quite some time staring at the traits n’ skills and weighing the pros & cons, is much much better; but I would’ve never made these changes and gotten better if a challenge against my old train-of-thought wasn’t presented. I’m looking forward to “battle testing” this build in other dungeons and paths.
The tokens and coin are a nice way of validating my efforts.
I don’t think you necessarily need a class for multiple reasons…. but you could use a buff on certain healing mechanics.
+ In general, + healing contributes hardly any bonus to direct heals and HoTs
+ In general, HoTs are much weaker than direct heals simply in terms of how much they heal once the full duration is over.
+ Base amount of regen from sources (like turrets, ground target, regenerate boon) are kinda low… around a 100 or so health per tick at level 80?
+ Base amount of regen from 6/6 rune of doylak (especially the superior version) is super weak… 30 health per tick? At least make it close to say backpack regenerator, which itself is a like around 100 health per tick.
I know we need to focus more on flawless execution rather than healing through an encounter, but it doesn’t mean the healing stat and HoTs should be almost completely trivialized.
I don’t see why the paths have to be longer as they get more difficult… it might take more time to learn, but why more time to execute once a strategy has been found?
Might also be nice to have the path choices actually have in the text (easy, medium, hard), that way folks know “oh I wanna pick path 2 because it’s the easy one” or “maybe we should try 3 since it’s medium and the easy one is too easy”).
Also, maybe increase rewards as you try harder path? Not so much increased tokens (though that’s nice), but more chances for drops; whether it’s extra tokens off chests, rares, coin, etc.
Why is a player’s pace his problem? If anything you should be thanking him for speeding through the game so quickly so he could point out the flaws quick enough so that by the time other folks catch up, they don’t ever have to deal with half of those bugs or flaws.
All the OP has said in his story is he’s trying to hold out, but frankly the game is throwing a lot of kitten his way, some of it due to lame exploits, some of it due to bugs. Yes, the game is still in that vanilla phase, but insta-wiping, “spies”, lack of rewards, and reward bugs, even if they are being addressed as fast as possible, still make for a demoralizing experience. He’s not saying how to fix it, through nerfing content or buffing this and that, but I think we could all agree that somethings could use a little tweak here and there.
I don’t wanna entirely nitpick what you said, but you say “i keep playing this game as i played wow” and I would say that’s your first, and probably most fundamental, mistake.
WoW has you fit certain roles (tank, healer, dps, maybe some hybrid) whereas everyone in GW2 is dps with a mix of support. The point is to recognize each other’s strengths and weakness and play off them. Skill synergy and dodging takes precedent over being able to tank and heal through a fight.
You might need to rethink how you can do good dps while also providing good utility (in some form) to other characters, and avoid death as much as possible. How you do that is dependent on class and playstyle.
Just out of curiosity Piccolo… I know you say ur not hardcore, but how do you learn in a game like this? Do you watch youtube vids, bust out a spreadsheet, scan forums for strategy?
Not saying if you’re not do this you’re not doing it right… but there tends to be a disconnect with people between how folks learn, and my hypothesis is that many casuals (regardless of inherent skill) learn by doing. This isn’t a bad learning style, but when these types of learners have little-to-no exposure to dungeons and combo fields and such…. or even a graduated system of learning and paying from making mistakes…. you can’t really blame them for having a hard time in these dungeons.
I know one person isn’t gonna confirm my hypothesis, but the point is there are players that learn like this and the game doesn’t do a good job at teaching/revealing all the mechanics available to them; even at the most basic level…. The only way I knew about combo fields was someone telling me what they noticed in the beta and by me actually trying to shoot through a field to check it out. Without that prior knowledge, I probably wouldn’t have really noticed it for awhile.
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I’m having this trouble too…. even just to get the story modes complete so I at least have access to the explorable should I ever find people interested. I suppose a raiding guild is what I’m gonna have to look into.
A little diversity in the loot would’ve helped as well in terms of spreading people around in the dungeons…. I think CoF and Arah are still favorable because they have the berserker gear equivalent of dungeon pieces. Whether or not still building glass cannons is wise is something folks are gonna have to figure out; though honestly, I’ve tried doing better mixes of stats involving more representation of the toughness, vit, and/or +healing, yet I’m really not seeing any benefits in my ability to survive longer (not saying I’m actively trying to take the damage, but the extra buffer I’m giving myself is almost negligible relative to the dps sacrifice). Nonetheless, unless players are totally altering their playstyle and skills/traits, there’s little reason for players to go to other than a select few dungeons.
A problem for any MMO is having the single-player experience help prepare for the group play. In GW1, you always had a party, even if it was full of AI. So when real players were involved, running a dungeon became even easier. Here, you can easily handle groups of mobs in the regular world, but two or three in a dungeon against your group of five and suddenly folks are corpse-running all over the place.
Granted, you pick yourself up and dust off and give’em Hell and win, but the point I am making is that, in a general sense, there’s a steep learning curve between general PvE and dungeon PvE*.
- I’m willing to bet those with a decent chunk of their time invested in PvP fair much better, on average, their first time in dungeons.
I don’t have all of the solutions or anything, but it’s my guess this contributes to people not having fun.
Me? I view it as a challenge and have enjoyed it, both when I have died a lot and when I have had smooth sailing groups.
This is what I was trying to convey in a different post. My only proposal was possibly modifying the paths to have distinguishable differences in difficulty (and rewards) as well as being told what paths are easy and hard…. The idea being to open explorables to more folks by giving more of a gradual learning curve in the explorable dungeon, yet still have the hard challenges available for the “pros”. Imo, I think the difference between a hard path and easy path in the current setup is merely serendipity more than intentional design. I also think the story mode dungeon doesn’t really prep players for the dungeon PvE challenges; at least not in the way other games typically prep you (though they really on something classic like a gear treadmill or holy tinity).
I don’t see why changing it around to have an (easy, medium, hard, super hard) path is bad… those of you who say it’s already easy get better challenges (assuming the hard and super hard paths are designed properly) while those of you who are having issues can at least do an easy path and eventually progress to the harder challenges. Those of you who think other people should L2P, will L2P by being given challenges that gradually teach them how to play… and maybe the harder challenges will teach you a little something about L2P as you get more masterful with your toon and group tactics.
I don’t see the resistance here…. everyone wins; which, isn’t that the point of this entire design philosophy from the get-go?
[/quote]
That was already happening.
For example Arah has easier paths and harder paths.
Easier paths are for the worse players and harder paths are for the better players.
Easier paths rewarded less shards than the harder paths.
This is exactly what you are asking for. Why are we still on this?[/quote]
Are the paths specifically designed to be that or did those paths just happen to be that way by happy coincidence? Something tells me it’s not intentionally by design because other parts of the game that give you a challenge option usually has the following words in (); easy, medium, hard. You use Arah as the example, but is this true for all dungeons? In terms of shard amounts… What I’m talking about is with the current system, if there’s truly an “easy path, harder path” system, then why is the path clear reward uniform? Shouldn’t the “easy path” be fewer tokens for clearing than the “hard path” because the likeliness of clearing the “easy path” is greater? Otherwise, we find ourselves in the same condundrum we had prior to this dungeon “fix” where there’s little incentive to do harder paths other than “oh well I have diminishing returns now on this path”.
What indicates to me that path 3 (dungeon doesn’t matter) is the easiest path? Nothing. Unless I have prior knowledge before making that choice, I have no idea if I picked the “cakewalk” or the “gauntlet”.
Not being consistent in your difficulty design isn’t the same as intentionally designing easier and harder routes.
I understand restrictions for rewards, but not for content. I also want harder dungeons. That said I’m all for two difficulties.
Easier mode would allow most of people experience dungeons and prepare for harder mode.
Harder mode should be based on easier mode but include more durable, more skillful and more hard-hitting enemies and prevent graveyard zerging.
Exactly my point. Though hand-in-hand, rewards should scale as well. 60 tokens for the easy path is too much, maybe 20-30 tokens? At the same time, the super hard path might be 80-100 tokens? I’ll defer to the devs on that one… having the right mechanisms in place for people to learn is more important to me; it makes for a better player-base.
As for the story mode being the introduction… then maybe it’s not doing a good enough job? Also, don’t confuse “easy path” for rainbow meadows and a jolly stroll in the park… I meant easy as in relative to the rest of the dungeon. Sure, it’s more forgiving and little less stressful on players… relative to the other parts. Just because there are those kind of easier paths currently in a dungeon is sort of a blend of serendipity and design than pure intention. Also, easier doesn’t mean you yield the same rewards. As I’ve said, easier means less rewards because there’s less risk… there’s still the incentive to “go for glory” but if players like this particular difficulty path, then so be it.
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So how do you propose players get better? The people who you claim need to L2P or get better don’t just divine that skill from the heavens. People learn differently and at different paces. Some folks are gasp not familiar with GW1 or MMOs (MMO-like games) in general.
Not everyone is an old school “spreadsheet gamer” where the majority of time is spent on the spreadsheet and forums. Not everyone is a savant that just picks up on everything right away. Hell, some folks don’t do any work upfront and would rather learn as they go, which means they need gradual introductions to the mechanics necessary to execute a successful explorable dungeon section…. where is that learned in GW2 other than in the dungeon?
Leveling? What does that teach you for dungeons?
DEs? Yeah you learn a lot when there’s 20+ people spamming AoE kitten storm all over the place.
Story Mode? Hardly teaches you anything remotely useful for explorable mode.
It’s especially important that if you try to get people to break out of old MMO mantras like “holy trinity”, that you properly teach them what the kitten you’re game is all about. Saying you have these mechanics and figure it out is one way and it works fine for some, yet is completely ineffective for others.
If you don’t think the explorable dungeon is the right place to gradually teach people how to actually run it, fine… but there’s nothing in the game currently that teaches people.
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