Guild Wars 2

Iason Evan.3806:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Iason Evan.3806:

Guys,

Did the Fractal weapon boxes ever get added? If not, I think those should get added before any CDI stuff is implemented. If they did get added, then cool deal

We re looking at rewards now. Thanks for the reminder. I will check on this aspect of them again when I return to work on Thursday.

Which by the way will be when i summarize and close the thread )-: But then we will do a process evolution topic and then move onto our next CDI (-:

Chris

Thanks for the heads up Chris. I hope you are feeling better. Would you kindly let us know too if they are not in? Friends and I have been pushing into the 40’s (level wise in the Fractals in hopes of getting a box). Would be a shame to keep pushing for something that we don’t have a chance of getting because it isn’t in the game. Anyways, thanks!

I will get an update for sure.

Chris

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I’m fine with that, then. I have always enjoyed uncategorized, and Maw. I just thought you meant SAB platforming.

I enjoy all three varieties of platforming, but I think simple and forgiving platforming is more suitable in Fractals. When I play something like the Snowblind Fractal, it bores me because there’s not that many height differences. Apart from the initial descend, there is not a single moment when you have to jump on to something. Same for Urban Battleground, not a single jump. Not even an easy one.

Thaumanova at least goes up and down a bit. And Cliffside is almost entirely vertical, which is also great.

Well, there’s no real reason for every fractal to feature the same platforming jump mechanic, that would get pretty stale for most people fairly quick. I honestly like Urban the way it is, apart from desperately wanting to build my own siege to take over Ascalon. I mean, I summon my golem suit just to pretend I’m doing it. Urban is my second favorite fractal, because it’s so vivid, and we know where it comes from so well.

I like Urban to. It is probably my favorite because it has great lore executed very well, and a sandbox style approach to path and combat.

I to would love to be able to have siege in this fractal (-:

Chris

We deserve arrow carts. And we deserve them now.

Trebs FTW!

Chris

darkfiremew.5937:

Hopefully you’ll get well SOON Chris. We want you at 100% when you implement those new fractals/fractal changes .

Agreed (-:

Heading back to bed soon.

Chris

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I’m fine with that, then. I have always enjoyed uncategorized, and Maw. I just thought you meant SAB platforming.

I enjoy all three varieties of platforming, but I think simple and forgiving platforming is more suitable in Fractals. When I play something like the Snowblind Fractal, it bores me because there’s not that many height differences. Apart from the initial descend, there is not a single moment when you have to jump on to something. Same for Urban Battleground, not a single jump. Not even an easy one.

Thaumanova at least goes up and down a bit. And Cliffside is almost entirely vertical, which is also great.

Well, there’s no real reason for every fractal to feature the same platforming jump mechanic, that would get pretty stale for most people fairly quick. I honestly like Urban the way it is, apart from desperately wanting to build my own siege to take over Ascalon. I mean, I summon my golem suit just to pretend I’m doing it. Urban is my second favorite fractal, because it’s so vivid, and we know where it comes from so well.

I like Urban to. It is probably my favorite because it has great lore executed very well, and a sandbox style approach to path and combat.

I to would love to be able to have siege in this fractal (-:

Chris

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Underwater is largely a puzzle fractal, along with swamp. I find Underwater lacking entirely of interesting mechanics. Even the final boss is basically harmless. I would like to see an additional underwater fractal, but one that doesn’t have the gimmicky feel of, say, the dolphins, but one that entices exploration and interesting combat. The plants, I think, would be cool if they had some sort of relevance to the boss (like cliffside and seals). I dislike the “fractured” (pun intended and now i’m sad) nature of many fractals. I personally don’t care for puzzles, because they basically reward nothing, and whether players are in it for the rewards or not, I would rather be rewarded through the fractal with bonus objectives rather than unscaleable path puzzles that lead you to an unrelated boss.

Personally I feel the environmental puzzle aspects of Underwater are a little to much. The fractal itself adds variety in regard to the mix overall but I think it is better to get the balance right with any given fractal than have fractals themselves swing to far in any given direction.

I would prefer the Jellyfish to be more challenging also.

Chris

Dommmmmmmmmm.6984:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Nike.2631:

I get it the audience is primarily smash and grab. That’s why when I initially suggested them, failure would quickly move you into another fractal at that tier. Puzzles and other far off the beaten path challenges could be introduced in a way that if you suck at jumping/hate puzzles/just wanna kill they wouldn’t bar your progress more than a couple minutes tops.

The other option remains to incorporate them as short cuts within traditional challenge structures. Imagine an update to the Snowblind fractal when upon approaching the Ice Elemental there is an alternative to harvest X trees, and a crafting station when a player with Huntsman or Artificer of at least 300 can process them and you throw the results at the elemental starting a bonfire that kills it instantly. You can fight or you can chop some lumber if there’s a suitable crafter present.

We basically already have jumping puzzles to skip parts of the Underground Facility fractal, with all the ways people work around the first two gates . Instead of putting up invisible walls in every corner, you could actually formalize it as an acceptable alternative…

Another good paradigm for us to think about when we work on Fractals. Thanks.

Chris

Apparently you did not read his post at all. Because if you did you would realize he is talking about cutting down trees in what is supposed to ‘challenging’ content. Also, the last thing we need is more GW2 endgame that consists of us staring at the crafting menu.

Incorrect Dommmmmmmmmm.

I did in fact read it and personally i like it, specifically:

‘We basically already have jumping puzzles to skip parts of the Underground Facility fractal, with all the ways people work around the first two gates . Instead of putting up invisible walls in every corner, you could actually formalize it as an acceptable alternative…’

Please try to respect the opinion of others.

Chris

Nike.2631:

I get it the audience is primarily smash and grab. That’s why when I initially suggested them, failure would quickly move you into another fractal at that tier. Puzzles and other far off the beaten path challenges could be introduced in a way that if you suck at jumping/hate puzzles/just wanna kill they wouldn’t bar your progress more than a couple minutes tops.

The other option remains to incorporate them as short cuts within traditional challenge structures. Imagine an update to the Snowblind fractal when upon approaching the Ice Elemental there is an alternative to harvest X trees, and a crafting station when a player with Huntsman or Artificer of at least 300 can process them and you throw the results at the elemental starting a bonfire that kills it instantly. You can fight or you can chop some lumber if there’s a suitable crafter present.

We basically already have jumping puzzles to skip parts of the Underground Facility fractal, with all the ways people work around the first two gates . Instead of putting up invisible walls in every corner, you could actually formalize it as an acceptable alternative…

Another good paradigm for us to think about when we work on Fractals. Thanks.

Chris

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I agree with your first paragraph, and actually quite like the blob mechanics in Aether. I disagree with the final paragraph and that is only because I am rubbish at jumping puzzles.

Note though this is my personal opinion and not indicative of a direction I would enforce (-: (clearly)

Chris

Do you think it’s possible that we’ll see traps in the near future, that affect foes and players alike? Because one of the things I really enjoyed in GW1’s Sorrow’s Furnace, is that you could use traps against your opponents. You could lure them underneath crushers, and it had the exact same effect on them, as it did on us.

I like it when an encounter is like a sort of sandbox. Where there are all these interesting mechanics that interact with each other in dynamic ways. Where pressure plates are activated by players and enemies alike, and where the environment can be turned against the enemies. It mixes up the combat, and makes it less boring, more strategic.

I’d love to walk into a room some time, and just have the freedom to choose my strategy. Maybe there’s a trap on one side, that could be used to take out enemies (but it also blocks my way). And a lever on the other side, to deactivate the trap, but it’s guarded by a champion. And maybe a third path that is underwater and hidden, but which circumvents the trap, and allows the players to flank the enemy. However they’d better be ready for a big fight on the other side. And maybe there are traps that can be activated by enemies on purpose, unless the players catch up to them, and stop them dead in their tracks before they can do so.

I would welcome options, and dynamic mechanics. Not linear, but a bit more open.

All I can say is that i think that would be cool:

’Do you think it’s possible that we’ll see traps in the near future, that affect foes and players alike? Because one of the things I really enjoyed in GW1’s Sorrow’s Furnace, is that you could use traps against your opponents. You could lure them underneath crushers, and it had the exact same effect on them, as it did on us.

‘I like it when an encounter is like a sort of sandbox.’

Me to (-:

Chris

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Regarding puzzles:

I would really love to see fractals that mix up puzzle mechanics and combat more, because I currently do not feel the game is doing it enough. I’d like to see trap-filled rooms, where traps and enemies interact with each other in interesting ways. I would like to see us pulling levers, activating switches, opening doors, and choosing different roads, rather than a linear path.

I dislike gimmicks, like having to pull those blobs to the gears in the Aetherblade path of Twilight Arbor. But I like combat situations where awareness of the environment is important. A perfect example of that is in Team Fortress 2, where one of the maps features a sawmill, with the players fighting around the moving sawblade. The mechanic becomes an active participant in the combat, and also a tool for cover, and for taking out opponents.

I would also welcome more platforming of the light variety. For example, the jumps before the Jade Maw are quite refreshing, and I really like the platforming in the Cliffside Fractal. None of these are particularly hard, but they mix up the combat.

I agree with your first paragraph, and actually quite like the blob mechanics in Aether. I disagree with the final paragraph and that is only because I am rubbish at jumping puzzles.

Note though this is my personal opinion and not indicative of a direction I would enforce (-: (clearly)

Chris

Romo.3709:

You’re finally being a little constructive with answers Chris. I’m happy to see that at least, even though the thread is closing Thursday as you mentioned. Those are kind of responses this thread needed since the very beginning. Like this idea might work because x, or this will not work because of y and z. Giving us ideas on what can and cannot be done, keeping our proposals constructive and on point.

Regardless, had a word with Izzy yet?

Hi Romo,

I have been recovering from surgery so please bear that in mind regarding my recent interactions or lack thereof.

Once again I would like to point out that just because a Dev does not respond to every thread or discuss every point does not mean it isn’t being discussed internally. This is not an exercise in massaging egos or placation. It is an exercise in listening and contributing where appropriate and bi proxy improving Guild Wars 2. I hope that this is something you can respect moving forward. Personally I respond when I have a question or when I would like to help push an idea forward.

Regarding discussion around the reset. I would have liked longer to have thought about it but sadly I have not been afforded that opportunity. Therefore the developer statements around reset stand and it is not a topic of conversation that I will be engaging in.

I hope that answers your question, albeit an answer you probably didn’t want to hear.

Chris

Tub.4560:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I think the idea of different ‘types’ of fractals is really interesting. This said anything that is to divergent from the core will lead to polarizing opinion in the community I think.

Well, if the fractal mechanics prevent you from implementing new and fun ideas, then I’d mark that as another point for changing the core fractal mechanics.

Solution A
Mechanics that would allow the group to choose their fractals have been proposed. If, say, each step offered two combat fractals and a puzzle one (randomly taken from the list of available fractals), players could always pick the playing style they like, without removing the randomness altogether.

Solution B
Another way would be to split the tasks between the group.
Imagine a jumping puzzle with lots of traps. There are buttons that fire the traps, and a horde of enemies (probably skritt) determined to push the buttons.

Three players need to traverse the jumping parts, standing on the end-platforms at the same time, while the other two need to defend the buttons.

Something like that wouldn’t work in the open world (since it’s impossible to do alone), nor in guild puzzles (since 20-man groups will just break the system), but it’d be perfect for a controlled environment with coordinated 5-man groups.

If not in the mists, where else are you ever going to implement all those weird ideas people keep having?

I was thinking about option A while i was writing my response. I don’t think that we plan to change Fractal accessibility functionality at the moment but your option would certainly be something to think about if we did.

I like option B and i think this is the direction we need to move closer to in regard to variety through a mix of environmental puzzle and strategic combat where appropriate. A paradigm we will definitely be thinking about moving forward.

Chris

The Lost Witch.7601:

One Note Chord.5031:

ZeftheWicked.3076:

I can bet this has been touched upon 100 times but just in case:

Make fractal achievements (like 100 fractals done) etc reward fractal skin boxes where you pick your skin. RNG is bad, especially with fractals. There should be sure rewards for those who aren’t blessed by RNG star.

Since we’re reiterating things a bit here, I want to repeat one worry that a few of us raised about this particular kind of implementation: this would allow people to run level 1 fractals over and over and get skins, which devalues them.

One way to get around this, riffing on some suggestions earlier, would be to have the achievement give you a token you can trade into a merchant for rewards, with different rewards requiring different personal reward levels. Then maybe weapon skins could require a few tokens (if we get them every 100 fractals) and level 50, for instance.

(This still doesn’t address the other problem of letting us do something with skins we don’t want. Maybe we could turn unwanted skins into a tokens as well, at some exchange rate or other. It has the other problem of adding yet more currencies to the game, though, which may be unwelcome.)

This would still let you run level 1 fractals to get skins, but at least you’d have to make it to 50 first.

Personally I think it would be a better idea to just introduce a vendor that pops up after beating a boss on level 50. (Within the fractal)

That way players that are good enough to do level 50 fractals don’t have to actually have reward level 50. (Which is fair enough if you do every level once, but a bit much if you spend most of your time helping friends and guildmembers level up.)

Besides that though:

If the end reward for completing a run of 4 fractals is good enough, players wouldn’t just do the first one. So we might not even need this structure.

I would like to warn against setting the bar too high though. I am already seeing a lot of very high material requirement in crafting & mystic forge recipes. These require either a lot of gold, or a lot of time to gather.

I ask that you keep a human perspective. Don’t look at the list of fractal players and divide the requirements so that the most active fractal players still have something to strive for. Because what may be in reach for them, is out of reach for ‘normal’ players. This is fine for some types of rewards of course, but if we’re looking at completely new skins or stats, I think not.

The main reason why I make this warning is because not all players are wise enough to let some things be. They will simply put in more time because the game ‘requires’ it, and don’t pay attention to the impact it has on their lives. Please base rewards on what you perceive to still be a ‘healthy gaming habit’, not on the top statistics of the gamer ladder.

This doesn’t mean that there shouldn’t be anything for players that enjoy doing one thing in this game a lot though. But the incentive for them should be something other than ‘I need just two thousand more fractals and then I’ll have my legendary backpiece!’

If it seems impossible to make a fair reward track because some players already have incredible amounts of fractals done, then perhaps this achievement track shouldn’t be rewarded.

The same goes with the pristine relics though. Some players most likely have hundreds of them, perhaps even thousands. This doesn’t meant that some rewards should cost a thousand pristine relics.

Keep a human perspective! Don’t just look at the statistics.

Interesting idea about the vendor. I would add to it with the idea of perhaps their being vendors every 10 levels where appropriate that sell items and skins but the higher level the vendor the cheaper the items become and new items are added to higher level vendors etc.

‘Keep a human perspective! Don’t just look at the statistics’

I think this is a very well made point and we should always keep that front and center when thinking about rewards.

Chris

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Goodness! You are up and working early. Such dedication! I hope you are feeling better, Chris. =)

Hehe couldn’t sleep. Feeling a bit better thanks Cedo. Back to bed shortly (-:

Looking forward to getting back into work.

Chris

One Note Chord.5031:

ZeftheWicked.3076:

I can bet this has been touched upon 100 times but just in case:

Make fractal achievements (like 100 fractals done) etc reward fractal skin boxes where you pick your skin. RNG is bad, especially with fractals. There should be sure rewards for those who aren’t blessed by RNG star.

Since we’re reiterating things a bit here, I want to repeat one worry that a few of us raised about this particular kind of implementation: this would allow people to run level 1 fractals over and over and get skins, which devalues them.

One way to get around this, riffing on some suggestions earlier, would be to have the achievement give you a token you can trade into a merchant for rewards, with different rewards requiring different personal reward levels. Then maybe weapon skins could require a few tokens (if we get them every 100 fractals) and level 50, for instance.

(This still doesn’t address the other problem of letting us do something with skins we don’t want. Maybe we could turn unwanted skins into a tokens as well, at some exchange rate or other. It has the other problem of adding yet more currencies to the game, though, which may be unwelcome.)

This would still let you run level 1 fractals to get skins, but at least you’d have to make it to 50 first.

This is a similar idea to the previous posts about the Global ‘Dungeon’ Rewards with a slight twist on the system. I passed the feedback onto the Reward team and they like the idea. Like you say perhaps skins you don’t need could be converted to Tokens, this is a good idea.

Chris

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Thanks for the feedback Spoj. Personally I am not a huge fan of puzzles but I tend to be a bit of an impatient gamer who just likes to smash things. What does everyone else think?

Chris

I’m a big fan of puzzles as content, but then I grew up with King’s Quest and I was the first in my house to finish Myst and its sequel Riven. So, I’m biased

I think, as you said before, Fractals or the world of Tyria at large is big enough for this sort of thing. There is the one treasure cave (the one with the Tears), though it needs some more checks on bugginess . . .

If you want to add Fractals like that, perhaps side attractions to the actual “vanilla” Fractals experience? Such as allowing a solo or small group puzzle instance. I could sketch out a few, or at least make a proper proposal post soon if it’s of interest to add them and not impact them directly into the standard Fractals run.

Personally I don’t mind the combat based puzzles, it is the environmental puzzles that I find frustrating sometimes. This said they do add variety and I know lots of player’s like them and therefore perhaps it is just a case of a careful balance.

I think the idea of different ‘types’ of fractals is really interesting. This said anything that is to divergent from the core will lead to polarizing opinion in the community I think.

Chris

Desthin Sinkropht.4123:

Proposal Overview
Queen’s Gauntlet “boasts” in fractals, in the form of Forced+Optional modifiers.

Goal of Proposal
Mods would increase variety within fractals at all levels of difficulty, as well as add another axis for balance and customization of the gameplay experience. This also gives an outlet for reworking Agony to be more satisfying to overcome.

Proposal Functionality
When selecting the fractal level, you can also select any number of Mods. These Mods remain in effect until full completion, as opposed to a single zone. The gain for the players is (as usual) better rewards.

As a secondary function, Mods could be added as scaling difficulty modifiers to fractals to replace agony. Each tier would apply a randomized Mod to the Fractal, scaled to the current fractal level. Agony Resist would reduce the individual effect the mods have on the player. These Mods stack as the player increases in Tier, eventually having to deal with multiple deadly modifiers at the same time, instead of a single Agony mechanic.

Associated Risks
Boast Preplanning: The inherent randomness of Fractal selection should prevent the players from planning which Mods to use on which runs, but a silver cost for adding Mods could help with this as well, creating a goldsink and preventing players from adding a Mod, starting a fractal, then bailing on it if they don’t like the fractal given.

Information Paralysis: Having too many modifiers in place at one time could cause unintended frustration, as opposed to fair challenge. I suggest Forced modifiers be very simple in nature.
Examples:
(Enemy Tier=Normal, Veteran, Elite, Champion, Legendary, Etc)

“[Enemy Tier] Enemies apply [Agony] Stacks of [Condition] on hit”

“Conditions from [Enemy Tier] Enemies last [Agony]% longer

“Fractal Level increased by #” (intensifying the other mods!)

Thank you for your time devs.

Thank you and everyone else who has put time toward constructive discussion in this thread. I and the team really appreciate it.

Chris

Zok.4930:

It would be cool if Fractal rewards, like the relics, could be combined with tokens from other dungeons in order to get cooler prettier gear. Then people could farm combos of old dungeons and lower fractal levels (assuming they have no AR) in order to get special skins. It could improve the reward, get people into old dungeons, and provide a new (updated) path to acquire skins.
For example, instead of just 180 tokens from CoF for gloves, you instead need 180 CoF tokens, 180 SE tokens, 500 Fractal Relics and 20 Ectos. Now people are doing multiple dungeons and fractals to get gear, and doing multiple steps to get a piece of armor that is more unique and challenging to acquire. I think that would boost FoTM for casual players and get them interested in it as well because gear is attainable for casual players through relics.

Yeah a global ‘Dungeon’ reward system is an interesting idea. I will pass this on to the rewards team for their thoughts.

Chris

Rylar.4807:

My apologies for adding a general proposal so near to the end, but this is something that has driven myself and other members of my guild a bit crazy, and I just have time now to post it.

Proposal Overview
Add repair anvils to each fractal instance

Goal of Proposal
Encourage groups that desire it to challenge and improve themselves by pushing against their current skill/gear limit, by allowing repairs within fractal instances.

Proposal Functionality
For my guild, fractals started to get really interesting and fun when we started to hit the upper limits of what our group AR/skill level could handle. We had repeated wipes on certain boss fights, but with each attempt, everyone improved and we got closer to beating them. This was really exciting and satisfying, until armor started to break, and we had no easy way to repair for another go, especially as we were on fractal 3. Despite wipes, we actually otherwise having a pretty good time, and didn’t want to just quit.

Currently, 4/5 party members in fractals can repair their armor using alt-F4 to disconnect, then rejoin their group after repairing. The instance owner cannot. I guess most groups get around this by bringing spare gear, or by purchasing repair canisters. This all seems unnecessarily awkward, and can give the impression that the game is pushing you towards the cash shop.

I think this is also exacerbated now that the longer/harder fractals come at the end of a run. Non-fractal-pros, like myself, may not realize that their group is running with low AR until they hit Fractal 3 or the boss fractal. I feel like the game should facilitate giving such groups the opportunity to overcome the challenge, rather than adding more layers of frustration. If tougher, more challenging fights are to come (yes please!), then I think adding within-fractal repairs will make meeting those challenges more fun.

Associated Risks
If I recall correctly from the pre-release days, armor repair is meant to act as both a gold sink, which it would continue to do here, and a mechanism by which the game signals to players that they are hitting an upper limit as to what their gear or skill can handle. Adding repair stations to each fractal instance might make this signal less strong, such that players can just keep repairing, and throwing themselves at content without adjusting their strategy.

Still some time for adding new proposals. Thanks for getting involved and sharing your ideas.

Chris

Iason Evan.3806:

Guys,

Did the Fractal weapon boxes ever get added? If not, I think those should get added before any CDI stuff is implemented. If they did get added, then cool deal

We re looking at rewards now. Thanks for the reminder. I will check on this aspect of them again when I return to work on Thursday.

Which by the way will be when i summarize and close the thread )-: But then we will do a process evolution topic and then move onto our next CDI (-:

Chris

ZeftheWicked.3076:

I can bet this has been touched upon 100 times but just in case:

Make fractal achievements (like 100 fractals done) etc reward fractal skin boxes where you pick your skin. RNG is bad, especially with fractals. There should be sure rewards for those who aren’t blessed by RNG star.

I agree this would be a great goal for us to have.

Chris

Spoj The Second.7680:

The Lost Witch.7601:

If we move towards challenges that don’t really require combat, I’m afraid they would soon become one-dimensional. Since the challenge would basically be the same for these encounters: jump on time/jump far enough/craft as fast as you can. Whereas combat can have more depth, because we have more options available. Combat is what we build our characters for, why we spend a lot of time tweaking builds, finding whatever gear and build suits us best. Fractals is the place where combat becomes the most difficult. High level fractals are the place to be for combat enthousiasts.

There is a place for one-try puzzles though. We already have them in guild missions, bounties and puzzles. I just don’t think that fractals is the right place for them.

Agree with this so much. This is one of the biggest issues i have with the new fractals and the aether path. Too many puzzles. They shouldnt be in dungeons/fractals. Puzzle mechanics in fights are fine (seals on cliffside, agony rotating walls in aetherblade, buckets in dredge, collapsing floor in thaumanova atc). But the pure puzzles within fights without using combat and inbetween fights are just boring (barrage phases in mai trin, weapon test in molten, various puzzles in aether fractal and aetherpath in TA). If a combat element was added which allowed the speeding up of these timegated puzzles then I wouldnt have a problem with them.

Thanks for the feedback Spoj. Personally I am not a huge fan of puzzles but I tend to be a bit of an impatient gamer who just likes to smash things. What does everyone else think?

Chris

Quick note: I am up to date and am finding most of the posts valuable as is the team.

Note i am still recovering and reading in between being asleep and awake.

I will be closing the thread soon and providing a summary. Probably Wednesday.

Chris

haviz.1340:

“Lore people” will play fractals once or twice and move on to roleplay in divinity’s reach while more dedicated players will get bored because it will lack any sort of challenge except bigger numbers.

What should be done is to severely decrease the number of scales, the difference between 1 and 9 is trivial. Introduce complex mechanics for higher tiers (not just numbers) and make those god kitten cinematics skippable. Obligatory reset included.

I am so tempted to be hyper critical on this post but I won’t, as it isn’t this single comment that has been frustrating but instead a culmination of posts in the CDI.

Suffice to say this post emphasizes why this CDI has been pretty good and not great. In my opinion there have been to many posts that have either not been well thought out or the poster has not taken the time to get educated in the discussion before putting pen to paper, and more specifically too insular in terms of goal resolution instead of thinking about the broader audience.

I will leave it at that.

I am still interested in continued discussion around your boss/encounter mechanic ideas, Rewards and ways in which the fractals could be evolved moving forward to provide new types of challenge.

Cheers,

Chris

Hi Folks,

The team is now up to date with the thread and we will be asking anymore questions we have in the next few days. Meanwhile if you have anymore comments or suggestions I would suggest putting them forward as I think we will close this CDI on Monday.

One final note is as I have said before that there is room for both Lore and challenging content it is all in the content and therefore any argument in this area is pointless. Specifically Star Aces points are particularly well made.

I will be putting a summary up of our discussion before we close the thread.

Thanks all for the insight, proposals and discussion. I think this particular CDI has been pretty useful.

Chris

Moshari.8570:

I look at Fractals as a means for the Dev team to play. They do not have to follow lore exactly, it doesn’t even really have to make sense. Fractals are kind of an open sandbox for the dev team and I think they should embrace that….make some truly cool and unique fractals.

Its all about replayability and fun with fractals.

Examples of some interesting things that could be done with fractals: (remember, you can get wild).

A falling fractal: You’re falling, dodge the floating islands on your way down or go splat. Make sure you have a ranged weapon equipped since you will need to shoot at wyverns and eagles that are swooping in at you. Final fight is against a dragon which you have to destroy before successfully landing yourself in a pool of water.

A timed lava fractal. You are taking constant damage since you are in a volcano, run like heck to the other side while dodging the falling rocks. Make sure you grab the healing spheres as you go (provided by Dessa to help) to keep your health up…defeat the destroyer on the other end for an achievement and an extra chest (difficult to do with the constant lava damage).

I’ve listed others before (utilizing zephyrite skills, low-gravity fractal, etc etc.)

’I look at Fractals as a means for the Dev team to play. ’

Virtual high five!

Chris

Estriella Faerie.4029:

Spoj The Second.7680:

The regular and loyal fractal players are not in it for one time lore stories and easy dailies and that means they are in it for fun, challenging, rewarding and replayable content.

Quoted for truth ! Lore can be nice, but the most important thing if you want fractals to stay active is replayability, and for this you need balance, rewards, and challenge.

Lore is an important part of the fractals and will continue to be. Replayability, balance, rewards and challenge in no way exclude the ability to continue to tell exciting and meaningful stories in Fractals.

Chris

Note: Just got back from hospital and going to bed.

Moshari.8570:

Nike.2631:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

titanlectro.5029:

Just a quick procedural question.

When will this CDI thread cycle end, and when will the next thread to discuss the CDI process start?

That a good question. I am really enjoying the current conversation and ideas so I think until at least Wednesday next week and then the process evolution will follow shortly after.

Roughly two weeks then. With CDIs a bit more in the public eye compared to over the holidays, that’s seeming more and more like a sound window of opportunity.

I am going to be afk for a few days from tomorrow morning as I will be in hospital but as soon as I start feeling better and more awake I will catch up again on the thread.

Ooof. Rest up. And as always, thank you for posting a note saying you’ll be stepping out for a bit. It helps calm our nerves .

((Don’t eat the lime Jell-O while you’re on the inside. Just don’t .))

Having just left a 4 day stay in the hospital….

I LOVED THE LIME-JELL-O!! Best thing they had. Oh and Chris ALWAYS ask for the salt and pepper packets (they don’t give you them unless you ask). Everything is way too bland otherwise.

Hi Moshari,

Thanks for the advice (-: and I hope you are feeling better.

Chris

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Hey everyone,

I know we haven’t been as responsive as some of the other CDIs, but part of that is because we have double the amount of posts as the next one down and we’re spending most of our time reading and discussing the issues internally.

Given that, I’m going to lock the thread for now so that the team and I can catch up and discuss/summarize the feedback we’ve gotten.

Thanks so much for keeping it going!

Hi All,

I want to re-emphasize a few points i have made recently in regard to the CDI:

1: The primary purpose of the CDI is for the team to read your proposals, discussions and suggestions.
2: This allows us to then evaluate our end, discuss and then give our thoughts back to the group.
3: This particular topic is very big and thus there is a lot for us to discuss internally.
4: We will get back as often as we can with a summary of our thoughts. This said point 1 is still super valuable in of itself.
5: Finally the Devs are part of the CDI, fellow group members. Therefore we don’t want to pay lip service by commenting on posts that are not worthwhile to do so, in some beleaguered attempt at some kind of marketing exercise.
6: Thus please don’t expect a deluge of red posts especially on such a big thread.

Finally thank you for spending your time to contribute to the discussion and ultimately make GW2 the very best game it can be.

Chris

Fixed a typo.

Chris

Allie Murdock.8152:

Hey everyone,

I know we haven’t been as responsive as some of the other CDIs, but part of that is because we have double the amount of posts as the next one down and we’re spending most of our time reading and discussing the issues internally.

Given that, I’m going to lock the thread for now so that the team and I can catch up and discuss/summarize the feedback we’ve gotten.

Thanks so much for keeping it going!

Hi All,

I want to re-emphasize a few points i have made recently in regard to the CDI:

1: The primary purpose of the CDI is for the team to read your proposals, discussions and suggestions.
2: This allows us to then evaluate our end, discuss and then give our thoughts back to the group.
3: This particular topic is very big and thus there is a lot for us to discuss internally.
4: We will get back as often as we can with a summary of our thoughts. This said point 1 is still super valuable in of itself.
5: Finally the Devs are part of the CDI, fellow group members. Therefore we don’t want to pay lip service by commenting on posts that are not worthwhile to do so, in some beleaguered attempt at some kind of marketing exercise.
6: Thus please don’t expect a deluge of read posts especially on such a big thread.

Finally thank you for spending your time to contribute to the discussion and ultimately make GW2 the very best game it can be.

Chris

Asia Skyly.7198:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I am going to be afk for a few days from tomorrow morning as I will be in hospital but as soon as I start feeling better and more awake I will catch up again on the thread.

Chris

Get well soon!

Thanks. I appreciate it.

Chris

Zelyhn.8069:

A quick question:

Are we going to see changes to Fractals anytime before November?

Hi Zelyhn,

Sorry I cant answer this question. We don’t give out development/schedule details as noted in my original post.

Chris

The Lost Witch.7601:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

In regard to topics I would like to see (if that’s ok):

- Continued discussion about lore in fractals.
- Suggested scenarios (boss, encounter and level design) based on current mechanics and systems in fractals.

Chris

I have put a lot of thought in creating combat scenarios that require more of the way we build our characters. I’ve linked to these scenarios in the past, but I’ll adjust them now for fractals and post them here in batches. (While also spicing up the lore) These are not full fractals, just encounters with a lot of focus on strategy.

Here are the first few:

The arena of Orr

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

Background setting: We are gladiators in the prosperous Orr of the past.

The orrian king is a cruel tirant as well as a skilled magician, we have to fight our way out of the arena to eventually slay the tyrant.

The encounter:

The arena is a circle with poisoned spikes as a wall. The monsters in it use pushback skills or explosions to try and land players into the spikes, while the players must try to do the same to the monsters. These monsters try to stay well clear of the spikes and frequently return to the middle of the room. Some of them have stability that can be removed, which they’ll regain as their stability skill recharges.

Players will take damage from both the monsters and the spikes, but the monsters only take damage while they are poisoned by the spikes and they lose a lot of health from landing in the spikes. This would make it possible for teams with a lot of pushes to take out the monsters quicker than a team which only has a few. Although both will be able to kill the monsters eventually.

For professions without cc, they can make use of some of the weapons that can be found in the prison chambers that the fractal starts out in. These are not meant to deal much damage, but fairly good at pushing foes around.

Strategies pushed in this encounter: stability, push/pull and boon removal.

Three titans and the Door of Komalie

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

Background setting: The gateway between Tyria and the Realm of Torment before the mursaat came in.

We see Komalie fighting demons in the Realm of Torment. She’s been at it for ages to keep the demons from building up an army of Titans at their foundry of failed creations. This time the Titans are too strong however, and she is forced to get back to Tyria. Three titans follow her into Tyria before she manages to close the door. They take her life and it is up to us to take them down.

The encounter:

Three mighty Titans are capable of blasting everyone to bits with a massive spell. However, the casting of the spell is a delicate ritual on its own and interrupting it is a very doable task. The titans are tough and it some time to bring one down. They’ll try to complete their grand spell very often, but any interrupt works. Once it is unleashed, no dodge will save you, only invulnerability might… for whatever the duration. The animation of the spell is a really obvious symbol forming above their ‘heads’.

A fallen Titan will spawn smaller titans that will try to bash your skull in while the team tries to keep the bigger Titans from ever delivering one massive spell. There is a fair amount of AoE, so stacking up to get the Titans together is rather risky.

Strategies pushed in this encounter: all interrupts.

Among the ranks of the stone dwarves

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

Background setting: Between the rise of Primordius’ first minion and present day, the stone dwarves have been fighting destroyers. We join them in battle.

The encounter:

Both the dwarves and destroyers are very powerful NPC’s. This encounter would be all about supporting the stone army. Due to the sheer number of npcs and the strength of them, our own damage output pales in comparison. The support we can grant through area weakness, poison (to counter the destroyers healing), protection, retaliation, chill, reflects, stability, aegis, combo fields, might, and banners etc. are great though.
The players would have to move carefully, because the destroyers can take you out quite easily. More importantly, the NPC’s will try to ressurect you, lowering their arms.

It would be a battle that is so balanced that it takes quite a bit of time before it’s done but it would inevitably end in a loss if it weren’t for the players presence.

Strategies pushed in this encounter: support skills of all sorts.

I love these encounter ideas.

Chris

titanlectro.5029:

Just a quick procedural question.

When will this CDI thread cycle end, and when will the next thread to discuss the CDI process start?

That a good question. I am really enjoying the current conversation and ideas so I think until at least Wednesday next week and then the process evolution will follow shortly after.

I am going to be afk for a few days from tomorrow morning as I will be in hospital but as soon as I start feeling better and more awake I will catch up again on the thread.

Chris

Nike.2631:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I am pretty sure Izzy responded to this question a few months ago. I will check with him.

I seriously hope not, because that would mean we somehow missed an announcement that “You’re just gonna have to lump it.”

Do the right thing on this one. Please.

Those players should be your ambassadors of fractaline awesome to the rest of the player base, not the most legitimately bitter voices.

This is off topic for the time being Nike.

Thank you.

Chris

Randulf.7614:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

In regard to topics I would like to see (if that’s ok):

- Continued discussion about lore in fractals.
- Suggested scenarios (boss, encounter and level design) based on current mechanics and systems in fractals.
- Anything else that takes your fancy.

I am pretty well versed in all of your thoughts around rolling, rewards and leader boards now.

Chris

Putting aside your dev hat and any indications of inetntion etc etc

Out of nothing more than curiosity and get discussion back rolling…what would you personally “as a player/fan” like to see as a scenario. Given the whole the GW lore and history to pluck from?

For eg, I’d love something similar to the Ascalon fight, but with Ebonhawke and Kralk flying overhead branding half the area and you as soldiers fighting off branded so people could escape. That would be iconic!

Hi Randulf,

From a personal standpoint I would like to be part of the story surrounding Rylock’s Origin, specifically in which Rytlock whilst on a mission clashes with his Warband’s legionairre.

I think that would be awesome!

Chris

In regard to topics I would like to see (if that’s ok):

- Continued discussion about lore in fractals.
- Suggested scenarios (boss, encounter and level design) based on current mechanics and systems in fractals.
- Anything else that takes your fancy.

I am pretty well versed in all of your thoughts around rolling, rewards and leader boards now.

Chris

Ok as I thought my post has completely derailed the conversation. Please let’s continue discussing how to evolve fractals for the time being.

Thank you,

Chris

Romo.3709:

Also, Chris.
I’ve been trying to avoid the question for a while now, trying my hardest to contribute to this CDI as much as the time lets me, while trying to push this question to the back of my mind. It never seem to be a good time to ask it, but then again I don’t think it’ll ever be a good time to. But you once said that you will give your opinion on fractal reset after you gave it some thoughts. I was wondering if you got anything for us. Will we ever be compensated for levels we lost and those over multiple toons? Just stating if it’s not even a viable thing for discussion anymore would suffice.

I am pretty sure Izzy responded to this question a few months ago. I will check with him.

Chris

timmyf.1490:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Wethospu.6437:

Could you guys seriously stop this daydreaming? There won’t be perfectly challenging and fun content with unique surprises each time you run it.

This thread would be about 10 pages shorter if people thought, “is this proposal remotely possible considering development resources available?” before they hit Reply.

I too find this frustrating, but at the same time, I have an engineering background and am able to make rough estimates of the implementation effort.

I assume that a lot of people here are just fans of the game, not coders/artists/etc, and don’t understand that they’re asking for things that would take a 10-person team months and months to complete. Or more.

The most egregious requests, if anybody is wondering, center around user-generated content/sandbox features. That is way way out of scope. Full randomly-generated content is also likely out of scope, not necessarily due to coding, but due to QA/testing.

Now, all that said, that doesn’t mean that the devs won’t find some bit of inspiration in these ideas and use a scaled down, heavily modified version. So have fun, everybody.

Agreed. It is completely valid for the CDI to brainstorm, discuss and dream about things that they would like to see in the game as this could easily lead to more realistic ideation around a feature etc.

Chris

I can’t find it now but there was a post talking about secondary objectives and rewards for completion of said objectives.

We do this with the Grawl Shaman and I would like to see more of this in the fractals.

Essentially stretch goal objectives that add more optional difficulty but reward the players for completing the more difficult content.

The larger the sense of discovery and accomplishment the greater the overall experience in my opinion.

Chris

timmyf.1490:

Hey guys, I thought I might try summarizing the discussion so far, as it’s reached a length that I think makes it tough for people to jump in and contribute. We’ve seen a few “I don’t have time to read this, but here’s my idea [that has already been discussed]” posts so far.

I’m going to do this differently from the link-heavy versions we’ve had others do here and try to summarize the discussion so far. Hopefully some people find this helpful.

Rewards

Rewards have been a heavy topic of discussion, perhaps the most-discussed topic so far. Opinions on rewards vary, but tend to fall into a few core statements that seem to resonate with the community. Overall, Fractal rewards are insufficient compared to rewards in other game types. Suggestions for improving rewards vary, but include: increasing gold, providing other uses for regular and pristine relics, and adding upgradable Fractal armor (beyond just the backpack).

Time Required, Barriers to Entry, AR, and Dredge

One theme we’ve seen come up a lot, in different ways, is that Fractals represent a relatively large investment of time and perhaps gold. Getting started with Fractals can be challenging as there is not necessarily an easy way to learn the encounters due to the randomness of shard choice. Having 4 Fractals at a time can represent a significant amount of gaming for a group and may exclude players who only have an hour or less to play. Progressing deep into Fractals requires Agony Resistance, but that is bound to a character and can make progressing multiple characters through Fractals difficult and expensive. And worst of all, a quick Fractals run can be sidelined by an unlucky Dredge roll which can take many groups twice as long as other Fractals.

Solutions for fixing these problems vary, but include “saving” Fractal progress so single shards can be done at a time, a Practice Mode that allows groups to choose a single Fractal to attempt, some sort of AR-avoidance mechanism as a group buff or bundle, or even account-bound AR.

Dredge has pages of suggested fixes, but most of them center around reducing the total number of mobs, especially in the “clown car” encounter, or removing one of the 4 “parts” to the Fractal: button, hallway, Champ/clown car, final boss.

Rolling For Swamp

The most controversial discussion so far has been on the topic of “rolling” for the Swamp Fractal. There does not appear to be a consensus on this issue – there isn’t even a consensus that rolling is “bad” – apart from variable rewards depending on Fractal difficulty could be a way to reduce rolling. Some players even suggested allowing the group to vote on the Fractal at every stage.

Additional Fractal Content

There has been discussion surrounding adding new Fractals as a way to introduce new lore into the game or revisit unanswered questions. Suggestions for new Fractals have included using alternate versions of GW1 missions or dungeons as well as Fractal versions of events from the three Guild Wars Novels.

This is my own personal view of what people who might not be following closely should know to “catch up” a bit. There were topics discussed which I left out, some on purpose, others by accident, but I still think this is a relatively representative summary.

Thanks a lot TimmyF. Good work!

Chris

The Lost Witch.7601:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Doing something like you have suggested really comes down to man power and global GW2 development priority.

Chris

But wouldn’t it be absolutely awesome?

Terkov.4138:

Proposal Overview
Rebalance of vitality and toughness of bosses.

Goal of Proposal
- Increasing viablity of condition based builds.
- Increasing build/gear diversity.

Proposal Functionality
Lowering health pool and increasing armor of bosses would encourage players to use condition based builds up to stacking limit before going into full berserker team. Rebalance should be done in a way that’d keep kill times same as they are now for full power oriented team.

Associated Risks
- Going from one extreme into another – too high toughness to vitality ratio could make condition builds too good. It’d be mostly fixed by conditions stacking limit.

I think it would be nice to have a variety of boss fights in this regard. Some where conditions really shine, others where they’re not quite as good.

This particular idea could be done through instability variables and it no where near as much work as creating an explorable version of the fractals (-:

FYI.

Chris

Nike.2631:

Very much so. Take it in the jovial spirit it was intended .

((Your signature made me laugh aloud))

Cool because I have this dream whereby one day we get to the point in the CDI where our mutual trust as community and developer is so strong that my voice is no longer perceived as being any ‘louder’ than anyone elses.

That is my dream (-:

Chris

The Lost Witch.7601:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Nike.2631:

Maybe we can get some insight from our Host:

Chris, what do you see as the long term value proposition of Fractals? Not necessarily the company policy, just your take as a well-informed designer. Why should players keep coming back after getting their rings & backpack and/or getting to level 50? What is the lasting appeal of this content? You’ve mentioned a blue sky dream of large-group fractals. Any other outside-the-box wishes that might help us better grasp the scope of changes this discussion might precipitate?

Hi Nike,

I am hoping that we can inject more lore and epic moments into the fractals. That we can transport player’s to even more iconic periods of Guild Wars history.

What if we could send players forward in Fractal time?

I am hoping that we can build on the strong foundation that we have with base Fractal mechanics and continue to build challenging encounters through strategic gameplay and strong ‘team’ centric inter-dynamics.

I as a player also hope that we can make fractals more rewarding, especially in regard to ascended acquisition.

I hope this answers some of your questions. Fractals are one of my favorite parts of the game and these are some of my wishes for their evolution.

Chris

How set are we on the current fractal structure in this regard? (An adventure of 4 semi-randomly picked mini dungeons)

Because I think that with a different structure, the lore possibilities can be enjoyed by a lot more people than just the hardcore fractal crowd. (Since reaching those bits of lore can be quite a hassle in the current system, especially if they are on the third and fourth fractal tier)

I would really like to see fractals of the mists as an explorable area. Where players can travel through the mists at their own risk. Where party sizes can differ between fractals. And where we can feel the thrill of exploration as true pioneers. (Going further than any NPC from ‘our’ Tyria has traveled before)

Doing something like you have suggested really comes down to man power and global GW2 development priority.

Chris

Nike.2631:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I am hoping that we can inject more lore and epic moments into the fractals. That we can transport player’s to even more iconic periods of Guild Wars history.

Woohoo! New content .

What if we could send players forward in Fractal time?

“Introducing the Foreboding Fractal – Dessa’s probes have locked onto a new fractal hinting at what may come to pass as the Living Story advances into its second season.”

With a firm plan at the outset something like this could be a very compelling narrative tool.

I am hoping that we can build on the strong foundation that we have with base Fractal mechanics and continue to build challenging encounters through strategic gameplay and strong ‘team’ centric inter-dynamics.

I’m going to tease you that the word ‘fun’ appears nowhere in your post .

I as a player also hope that we can make fractals more rewarding, especially in regard to ascended acquisition.

As the tier matures, I think we’re going to (have to) see continuing adjustments across all play modes. I’m still eager to see more possible improvements from the vertical progression thread work their way to Live. My alts are waiting .

I hope this answers some of your questions. Fractals are one of my favorite parts of the game and these are some of my wishes for their evolution.

Thank you. It does nicely in matters of looking to the future. I foresee in the next CDI Evolution thread I’ll again be asking for threads to include a Primer that helps us better understand “where we are at now – Arena’s Perspective” as a launch point for our flights of fancy .

Please do note these are the things I would like to see as a player. This is not an announcement of additional content or a change in design direction.

I am simply joining in the conversation and passing on my thoughts. It becomes very difficult for me to be a group member of the CDI if everything i say is going to become some kind of ‘News’.

Anyway I am sure you understand my point,

Chris ‘Fun’ Whiteside

Nike.2631:

Maybe we can get some insight from our Host:

Chris, what do you see as the long term value proposition of Fractals? Not necessarily the company policy, just your take as a well-informed designer. Why should players keep coming back after getting their rings & backpack and/or getting to level 50? What is the lasting appeal of this content? You’ve mentioned a blue sky dream of large-group fractals. Any other outside-the-box wishes that might help us better grasp the scope of changes this discussion might precipitate?

Hi Nike,

I am hoping that we can inject more lore and epic moments into the fractals. That we can transport player’s to even more iconic periods of Guild Wars history.

What if we could send players forward in Fractal time?

I am hoping that we can build on the strong foundation that we have with base Fractal mechanics and continue to build challenging encounters through strategic gameplay and strong ‘team’ centric inter-dynamics.

I as a player also hope that we can make fractals more rewarding, especially in regard to ascended acquisition.

I hope this answers some of your questions. Fractals are one of my favorite parts of the game and these are some of my wishes for their evolution.

Chris

Edit: I was also asked what my thoughts on rolling are: As a player i have no issue with that particular system as it currently stands.

I was also asked about Dredge: As a player I would love to see some work done on dredge.

SkylightMoon.1980:

Thanks for taking the time to scroll through dozens of pages and respond to us chris. We really appreciate it!

Thanks to you all for being so passionate about the game and supporting the CDI. Your collaboration in this area is extremely value to the game and the team.

I really appreciate everything you do.

Thanks

Chris

videoboy.4162:

Chris,

Perhaps it would help the Ranger thread, if Allie were able to periodically make a post similar to yours: “I’ve just caught up on pages 7-13, now to discuss these pages with my team!”

I think most posters know she’s doing a great job, but a small post like that to show she’s still around would probably calm the masses, by reminding them that she really is there and paying attention.

(In a slightly related note, I will gladly beg you to run the future Elementalist CDI. =D)

Back to this thread:

Do you have any thoughts/opinions/suggestions on the Dredge or the re-rolling issues being discussed so much in this thread?

Hey Videoboy,

I will mention your suggestion to Allie. At the end of the day though it is up to the CDI Topic owners to connect with their CDI group in their own way.

Regarding your questions. As a player I think Dredge could do with some work and I agree with many of the proposals that have been put forward in this area (note this is a not a statement around development in this area).

Regarding the rolling discussion. I am less opinionated about this particular topic and am still reading through the groups proposal’s and discussion points.

Chris

Randulf.7614:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Randulf.7614:

Chris apologies to post in this thread about a sep issue but, it might be worth post weekend some additional attention in the Ranger CDI. The community is trying to keep discussion moving, but it has lost direction and management. Could really use the “pep ups” this thread has had since inception.

Hi Randulf,

Thanks for the heads up. One thing for sure is that it is a much bigger thread (-:

Personally i think Allie and the team are doing a good job. I know the team has been discussing the proposals and discussions that they have seen in the thread.

Please note that I agree with their needing to be a guiding hand but do remember that the devs consider themselves peer members of the CDI group and thus there really shouldn’t be an expectation for them to comment all the time. Like me, they probably read, digest and evolve their own design philosophy based on the discussions. And at its core that is the huge value the CDI brings to GW2.

One thing I would like to point out is that whilst I spend portions of my weekend on the CDI that does not mean that this is expected of other team members. If anything my behavior is bad because as it sets an example to the community that they then expect to see replicated by other staff members and thus puts undue pressure on the team.

Chris

No criticism intended and no one expects a reply over the weekend, but it had been a while since a previous guiding hand from the lead dev of that thread. Sure they are doing a great job, but also there was expectation of much greater interaction hence the delay in getting the threads up and running. I don’t think the thread has derailed, it would just be a shame to see probably the leading CDI topic not get the direction it desp requires and thus have negative impact on future threads.

More of a heads up really, where it goes from there is really in someone else’s ball court – I’m happy just reading atm

Thanks Randulf I appreciate the heads up.

Note my reply wasn’t strictly directed at you. I just wanted to take the opportunity to remind folks of core purpose of the CDI.

Thanks,

Chris

Randulf.7614:

Chris apologies to post in this thread about a sep issue but, it might be worth post weekend some additional attention in the Ranger CDI. The community is trying to keep discussion moving, but it has lost direction and management. Could really use the “pep ups” this thread has had since inception.

Hi Randulf,

Thanks for the heads up. One thing for sure is that it is a much bigger thread (-:

Personally i think Allie and the team are doing a good job. I know the team has been discussing the proposals and discussions that they have seen in the thread.

Please note that I agree with their needing to be a guiding hand but do remember that the devs consider themselves peer members of the CDI group and thus there really shouldn’t be an expectation for them to comment all the time. Like me, they probably read, digest and evolve their own design philosophy based on the discussions. And at its core that is the huge value the CDI brings to GW2.

One thing I would like to point out is that whilst I spend portions of my weekend on the CDI that does not mean that this is expected of other team members. If anything my behavior is bad because as it sets an example to the community that they then expect to see replicated by other staff members and thus puts undue pressure on the team.

Chris