Guild Wars 2

The flavor text on karma gear always makes me smile. An example in the Iron Marches where you collect mortar rounds for a Charr, the heavy karma leggings says “These should help deflect the blast away from your more…sensitive… areas. – Centurion Truthbringer.” It adds a lot of character to PvE rather than mindless quest completion!

I think Anet understands the strengths in a d/d ele lie with the bunkering – specifically boon duration and healing which is on the strong side at the moment. In addition to addressing aoe, d/d mobility is likely to remain unchanged – otherwise we’d be a light armored version of a bunker guardian. Those who complain nerf to d/d ele mobility really don’t understand class balance and were probably frustrated they couldn’t land a kill when a d/d ele ran away.

On a side note, the double ele fiasco people describe is dominant in tpvp because of the conquest mode. Focusing fights on a node is extremely frustrating with builds like that, but if there was more incentive to have more opem fights (deathmatch style, or capture the flag) we would see very different combinations of classes dominating those game modes.

Have you ever fought a thief duo (chingchingstab, you dodge blindly, doesn’t matter you’re already dead and you never saw who killed you) or duo hammer warriors (perma stunned pinata)? Any combination of classes working together can fruatrate to no end, but double ele is prominent because we only have one game mode currently.

Quick note: the T2 Charr cultutal weapons share the same skin as “carrion flame” weapons on the trading post, so you can save 32k karma and spend 15-25 silver for the skin if you choose.

I do wish the cultural weapons were a bit more unique. Many of them share the same skins as masterwork/rare loot which is a bit disappointing.

Gaudrath.6725:

So do you stand in five meteor showers?

No, but you can walk out of the aoe and now 5 elementlists have meteor shower on cooldown :p

As a side note, I remember in beta meteor shower caused burning, so you get some damage even if you walk out of it. They removed that on release and it is honestly not very threatening unless it’s a glass cannon casting it. Enemies in the aoe would finish doing whatever they were doing, then move 200 range in one direction to get out of it (though this skill is powerful in pve).

TheGreatA.4192:

Ride the Lightning obviously needs to go. It’s not much fun to battle against an elementalist when you know they’ll just run away and break combat the moment you start getting the better of it, every 15 seconds. The cooldowns on major skills are so ridiculously low that you only need to button mash with this class to beat most opponents.

No real need to think for a half a second whether you should be using this skill at this stage of the fight unlike with other classes.

Invulnerability stomp is another one that needs to go. Obviously not intended.

With that mentality, you would also avoid thieves, warriors, or any class that can get out of combat and remove their escape mechanisms? Any class that uses a skill to escape combat does not get the benefit of the skill – the tradeoff of using it to either enter or leave combat. Of all aspects of d/d eles, mobility is the least of concern compared to its bunkering capabilities or aoe damage.

Sorry to sound harsh, but button mashing on any profession will beat unaware players – if you are being beaten by a button mashing ele, you need to work on improving your gameplay. Also, the major skills are on a 40-45 second cooldown – RTL is a movement /gap closer like any other similar skills on other professions (and not to mention stealth which is the easiest way to escape combat safely. Edit: Marzattackz summarizes this nicely in his post above).

If ele bunkering is being tweaked, and aoe is being toned down, that’s two major changes on elementalists – I am wondering how Anet will handle this as they agreed drastic changes throws class balance into pandamonium. They will have to tread on their planned changes very carefully or they will destroy this class.

People have also complained about d/d mobility; if they nerf bunkering and aoe damage, and cut down mobility, you now have a melee cloth low hp dunce that hits for crap dmg w/o mobility. ANET has to tweak one variable at a time, and if a certain spec is still too strong, adjust more or tweak another variable. They can’t nerf everything at once, so no fear fellow elementalists!

Rouven.7409:

I don’t recall the “immolate” but the other two sound like my human ele.

Edit: I don’t play the same profession on different characters – just from reading or some youtube videos I thought it was pretty much the same. If there really are some different ones, could it be only very few? The charr voice acting definitely has a different timbre – I personally actually like it, not as squeaky.

I know for sure sylvari, asura and humans have some unique elementalist quotes from hearing them (not sure about other professions, and haven’t come across many norn eles), but when you mentioned human eles having similar quotes, my guess is that there may be 1 unique racial quote for each attunements, and the rest are shared.

I personally like the charr voice acting the best as well! But I agree with the OP that some of them could be worked on to sound more “Charr-like”

Binary Rain.4869:

Yes….but by then it is half way over, since you character seems to normally bounce off the ground the first time. I really don’t like the fact where I have to sit there for about 1.5 seconds doing nothing, it is worse than being stunned, because you can break a stun.

Agreed – it is a bit annoying to be forced to wait out your character flying around before stun breaking. Thankfully not many classes have access to launch skills. If they do, it’s on a high cooldown.

And thanks Lokki for the well-written explanation on the OP’s discussion.

Binary Rain.4869:

The biggest problem I have with D/D eles is the blow out mechanic. D/D eles are, for the most part, typical. RTL -> Updraft -> Fire for damage. I immediately use my stunbreaker when i get updrafted, to find out that it either didn’t work, or my character just stands there for 3 seconds anyways as if I were knocked down. So having a good reaction time penalizes you…..

If you get updrafted, use the stun breaker after you’re firmly on the ground. Because of the mechanics of blowout, it doesn’t work if you use it immediately while your character is still airborne.

Let’s put all my character info in my signature. Suddenly, I’m well known and people care about me!

Provide an arguement other than saying “bunker d/d eles are op” for the 6th time, then we can have a real discussion =). Hurry before this thread is closed!

Some profession quotes do depend on species – at least for elementalists. Charr do have some different quotes for fire (immolate!), air (the winds obey me!), and earth (I summon the power of our land!). Water just happens to not be as unique for charr.

I do agree some charr quotes need to be worked on, one example being the male charr warrior’s “fear me”, which is really weak.

It doesn’t matter whether you ignore them or not; as long as they keep getting owned by an “op” build, they will come

No worries, you’re one of many fotm thieves who don’t bother to learn the game and want free kills. Looks like we’ll be seeing you around here often!

Daendur.2357:

I don’t think you are forced to use that build. What I see is a fotm build, so ppl use it even if they don’t really like it or it doesn’t fit well in their playstyle just because they were told to do so, or they saw how strong it can be.
When someone post a video with some great stuff in it the first question is “what’s your build?” as if the build was actually playing and not the person.
I know the majority of people just copy/paste someone else’s build instead of trying harder to deeply know their class. Why ? Because it’s easier.
That said, if Anet will tone down d/d bunkers and boost something else you will see the majority of elementalists (copy/paste ones) complaining about the nerf while someone else works to find out another effective build. Then new build will be revealed and the copy/paste process will start again… forcing people to play a build they don’t like.
I think there isn’t just one effective build, maybe a build with a better skill/effectiveness ratio and everyone goes that way.
The fact remains that atm d/d bunker ele is OP.

If you actually played an elementalist, you’d understand what the OP is suggesting in order to deviate eles away from bunker builds.

It’s obvious in your blind rage that you picked up a fotm thief build that is not able to instagib d/d eles, and concluded this build is OP. It’s funny, competent thieves have the least trouble with d/d eles, so maybe you should take your own advice and look deeply in your class to figure out how to play against d/d eles.

I’d also like a double ele with cheese, no regen, extra nerf.

I only use signet of air as an underwater utility in WvW. It’s a nice blind if you need it, but it just takes up a utility slot if your build has access to perma swiftness.

The HP pools are fine if the extremes of bunkering and burst were normalized. It doesn’t make sense to force the low hp bracket of classes to wear 12 peices of vit gear + 30 in a vit trait line to survive burst builds, whereas most other balanced builds can’t even make a dent against a full bunker.

Me: Elementalist
Most feared: Engineer
Least feared: Guardian

Nice of you to compile this OP!

Albane.8367:

The issue with the D/D build is not just about mobility, it is when you combine that mobility with the burst damage potential (15k AoE from the standard combo), support potential (including heals), and tanking potential that a D/D has.

1v2 isn’t special or even tough as a D/D ele. Go for a 1v5+, burst down someone while tanking with 22k health, 2800 armor and 10 seconds of Protection and then stomp them in Mist form and RTL away. That is when you see just how broken this spec is (Especially when using Reaper of Grenth).

Where are you getting these stats? Oh right, I haven’t tried the 30/30/30/30/30 build yet.

We are all happy to discuss the strengths and weakness of this build, but please don’t fling inaccurate info like this so that new players are not misinformed.

With regards to mobility, a d/d ele cannot swap weapons in combat and is stuck at melee range with the lowest armor and health pool. Rtl, burning speed (short) , lightning flash (45s utility), and magnetic grasp (needs a target, short, buggy and easily dodged) are essentially the only gap-closing skills in this weapon set. Compare this to thieves who have inf arrow, shadowstep, steal (target), heartseeker, and stealth (gives you a huge advantage over the enemy on where you can reposition yourself). I think the thief’s mobility is fine, and in comparison, d/d ele mobility is fine.

Honestly, these threads are a carbon copy of what happened to thieves a month ago. People get riled up over getting beat by a noob playing these slippery classes that seemingly take no skill. But who is the worse player if you’re losing to Fotm builds? Anyone can pick up a bunker build and go buck wild without dying if the opponent also has no clue what they’re doing. I hate to say it but this is definitely a l2p issue.

I haven’t seen players at a higher skill level complain about this build; it’s powerful in the right hands, but far from OP and unbeatable. Bandwagon d/d eles are a free kill if you know what you’re doing.

Tactical armor (karma merchants in Fireheart rise and various areas in Orr for pve; also found in pvp with the same name) and pvp masquerade set (exists in pve as a completely different armor set) are both nice on charr if you prefer a more tribal look. Otherwise, it’s pretty much butt flaps and dresses. Check out gw2armor.com if you’re still looking.

“The winds obey me!”
‘EVERYONE IMMOBILIZE NAO!!!!’
RTL goes nowhere
Charr meat!!
:D

Sunreva.8714:

Cirax.9231:

Replace part of your post with (shadowstep, stealth, and steal), and now you’re talking about thieves :p

Except that the extreme mobility of a D/D is also coupled with their insane regeneration/healing, Tankiness, and utility. Whereas thieves by and large lack all that.

Also for what its worth, a well played thief will not be able to outrun or get away from a marginally well-played played D/D. The D/D holds all the cards. Tankiness and heals of a guardian, mobility and movement of a thief, and utility and finesse of a mesmer—-all wrapped in one.

Its broken, and it needs to be addressed.

Thieves have stealth, which is a different way of mitigating damage than eles. Thieves can also spec to regen in stealth, and have lots of utility in their disposal as well. There is a reason why both these classes are slippery because of their low base health pool and armor.

I agree mobility is very strong in open wvw which is what makes these classes strong, and perhaps the commotion for these classes is because players rarely spec specifically against mobility; but this is counterable, and everyone knows when you take away an ele or thief’s mobility , they will melt.

Sunreva.8714:

There is no escaping a D/D. A D/D can prevent any opponent from ever getting away (RTL—>mistform—>teleport)

There is no catching a D/D. A D/D can prevent any opponent from ever catching them (through same mechanics as above)

If you’re winning the fight, the D/D gets away instantly and survives. If you’re losing the fight, the D/D prevents you from ever getting away. Either way, the D/D has the advantage at all times, win or lose.

This is what makes the build utterly broken (and yes, i agree with the OP) and boring to play!

Glad others are seeing this as well, and I doubt these blaring issues have gone unnoticed by Arenanet, hopefully they do something about it.

Replace part of your post with (shadowstep, stealth, and steal), and now you’re talking about thieves :p

fishergrip.4082:

Yes the d/d ele is currently the best roamer class for WvW in the game. It is getting annoyingly popular as well, with d/d eles coming out of the woodwork in wvw these days. D/D ele is not particularly hard to play. You pretty much just cycle attunements spam abilities and use certain utility skills as necessary. I think the main issue with D/D eles is not that their skills are overpowered so much as the fact that they get 4 attunements, each on separate CDs with 60% reduced swap time. The attune swap mechanic is the problem. When you can attune swap every few seconds you basically always have a powerful skill to use at all times and you are never that far away from gaining access to something you really need like ride the lightning. A normal class has to wait 15 seconds to swap back and forth between just 2 weap sets. Ele can swap to a new set of skills every couple seconds and return to the original set in less than 10 seconds.

Note that the reduction in attunment swap to 9 seconds requires 30 points invested in the arcana trait, which provides no major/minor stats. In addition, 3 out of the 5 skills on each attunment have a 15-45 second cooldown, so if you spam swapping attuments, you wont always have the powerful skills available to use.

In response to the OP, I’m pretty sure he’s trolling, but to clarify: anyone who feels god mode on a d/d ele likely just picked up the build as FotM and has not played the class long enough to know it’s true strengths and weaknesses. Most of these players build full defence, and believe jumping into groups of enemy players and jumping out is god mode. Good players know how to shut down spamming d/d eles, and know they are hardly a threat.

A good d/d ele has to be creative and outplay a good enemy in order to beat him (and not just taking damage then running away). Spamming cycles and predictable combos won’t work against competent players. In addition, few ppl know that d/d eles benefit from balanced specs, sacrificing a little surviability to gain much more offensive capability in burst or condition damage. That is when a d/d ele becomes a threat.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

The key is that most of its burst comes from fire set. Most of its dps is from earth set. Most of its control is from air set. Most of its healing is from Water set.

Most D/D cycle air/fire/water/earth
Let’s break down why. Air allows them to set up major fire burst with the blow back and blind control. Upon fire swap, damage is expected.
Few rule of thumbs, burning does a lot of damage and ele burns last for significant amounts of time, a silent killer. Avoid crossing the fire lines directly, like static field, you will not burn if you do not cross the circle edge.

Keys here are that eles are very squishy in fire, this is when you take advantage. Force them into water magic to defend themselves. After water comes earth and the protection comes with the earth swap. At this time, most eles are back at full health. Condi removal is important vs this attun if you have it because bleeds are another silent killer. The key for earth is to burst after the protection ends.

Knowing how to adapt to their common rotation will make the match easier for you. My suggestion is when they hit fire use your hammer for the control stuns. This will force your opponent to break fire or break stuns with their save button. Save your axe/mace control for when they enter earth. There you can punish.

You’re correct about the attunments, but I have to disagree with the rotation – many d/d eles go from fire to earth, since fire provides the fields and earth has 3 finishers (4 incuding Evasive Arcana). That being said, the rotation is standard – pumnish with as much cc and damage AFTER the ele attunes to water, and immobilize if you can when they switch to air so they can’t cheeze away with Ride the Lightning.

For those talking about the churning earth > lightning flash combo, it is still completely avoidable if you dodge 3 seconds after the start of the channeling animation, regardless of whether the ele teleports into your face. Also, the churning earth from EA does about 1/10 the damage from the earth 5 dagger skill, so the trait description is a bit misleading.

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

I’ve fought more than my fair share of excala clones by this point (even ran it on my ele alt for a bit to see what all the fuss was about). Even if I kitten in combat and manage to get hit by their entire rotation, I’ve got plenty enough toughness and vit to shrug it off without popping my healing signet. Plus, you pretty much have to be afk to get hit by churning earth.

You wouldn’t happen to be running glass-cannon, would you? The only time I feel threatened by a d/d ele is when they bring friends with them.

If you’re specced for vit and tough, other classes not specced into burst won’t do much damage to you anyways.

I’d be more curious as to how warriors deal with constant condition pressure, as d/d eles can apply a dangerous amount of dots if specced towards condition damage.

You provide lots of distraction flashing pretty colors on your ele, while your dps-built thief friend sneaks up for quick kills. Can’t go wrong with that duo. Also, both professions roam with a perma movespeed bonus, so you can keep up with one another with ease.

I can confirm that swap sigils and proc sigils (such as sigil of battle and sigil of fire) share the same internal cooldown.

There is no doubt the focus has great defensive capabilities, but most players have become accustomed to abilities like rtl, updraft, frost aura, earthquake, fire grab, churning earth, etc. all of which have a more direct “impact” in gameplay. Rtl especially since it is arguably the best mobility ability in the game.

Nonetheless as others have stated, every ele should have a focus ready just in case.

For level 80 exotics, Orr and the surrounding areas have karma vendors at each cathedral for 42k karma and a variety of stats.

http://dulfy.net/2012/09/08/gw2-templegod-karma-armor-sets/

The only downside is that the dynamic events have to be completed on your server for the vendor to show up. Otherwise, this is one of the most cost effective ways to.get 80 exotics.

The dulfy site also lists karma vendors from maps across Tyria if you’re not looking at level 80 gear yet.

Agreed. Female light armor has a nice variety, but most of the male ones look like parachutes.

Morthis.3968:

quercus.9261:

last match we were playing FA and a DD ele was getting his friend to announce in zone chat (Yak) which camps he would be hitting. Sure enough he would show up, run a zerg around the map, down a couple of lowbies and generally cause a ruckus.

While he was no doubt a master of his class I can’t think of any other game that lets people get away with this kind of stuff.

So a class with high mobility (and there are several others, like thief and GS warrior) leads a zerg of complete idiots in a circle and this is game breaking?

Heck if we’re gonna adapt the game to stupidity, why don’t we just add auto dodge for any dangerous attack, that way people don’t have to deal with the inconvenience of paying attention to animations either.

^This. Zergs are great for up-leveled or new wvwvw players to understand the game mode better, as well as gathering decent exp & karma from capping.

However to many of these players, they have never seen an ele dance around with d/d and have no idea how to take one down. Hence you get situations like this.

I’ve had my fair share of trolling zergs (any d/d ele who says otherwise is lying! :p) but I’ve also been melted in seconds by a well organized trio who timed their skills strategically.

Once more people understand this ele build, the cry for nerfs will die down, like the 100b warriors and bs thieves.

rchu.8945:

change is coming:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Coming-Soon-To-WvW/first#post966359

Alt+F4 is no escape
If someone that you’re fighting disconnects during combat (via Alt+F4, killing the client process, etc.) their character will be instantly killed, death penalties will be applied, and XP & loot will be handed out as usual.

Good news. Time to grow a pair for those who stubbornly defended Alt+F4ing.

dreztina.4820:

Maturity, integrity, honor. I’ve been watching you ‘for the realm’ zergers pat yourselves on the back for about 10 years now, and it never ceases to amuse me.

You are awful players who get destroyed any time you don’t have a massive numerical advantage, unless of course you’re fighting other awful zergers. There’s no honor in what you do. You aren’t some great general fighting to save his lands. You’re just a bad who happens to be a little more into the roleplaying aspect of MMORPGs than most.

If I end up in a situation where your numbers are able to overcome my skill, then I have absolutely no problem using my last recourse to deny you a kill that you most certainly don’t deserve. If that’s a problem, where’s the statement from Anet saying they consider it an exploit and want it to stop? As far as I know, Anet h as never said a word about their stance on it.

-This is WvW. There are going to be numbers of all sizes running around. If you get caught alone by numbers, it’s your fault.

-Just because you Alt+f4 for a numbers reason doesn’t mean other quitters do it for the same reason. Bad players have alt+f4ed in any situation they can, whether it’s against a zerg, small skrimishing group, or 1v1.

-Anet has stated they are looking this in other similar threads before closing them (since this topic has been brought uo many times). So you should get used to dying without an easy way out.

-If you think quitting the game and denying a kill is justified because you say other players are bad, you should really look into what you’re actually doing when you ragequit.

Greens Daily Ritual.9025:

5 am? Really? I wasn’t aware that NA prime time was so early. Here it is 6 am in TEXAS and I still haven’t been to bed yet. Stayed up all night wiping everything you had, from 7pm until just a few minutes ago. Yo’re just a mere speck on the map now. I think you need a Thesaurus to fully understand the word “groveling”. Thanks for the motivation. Looking forward to doing it again next week.

It’s nice to know some people need to feed their egos by staying up until 7am capturing points – whatever makes you proud of yourself.

Otherwise, this has been a close matchup regardless of coverage differences. Thanks to DB, DH, and NSP for the great fights!

Creslin.1758:

I’m pretty sure that everyone here would think that the ability to go outside and AoE the crap out keep attackers, with very near zero risk of dying would be cheap if it was a thief ability lol.

I’m actually tempted to post this on the WvW forum just to see the difference in responses I get. People are touchy about their class.

Thieves can already stealth safely into their keep when in trouble, so in a way it’s already “cheap” :p but that’s their playstyle. Eles elusive downed state can be cheap, but imo it’s a profession playstyle.

It seems a lot of people have differing opinions on how powerful this is, so I’d expect your other thread will have extreme responses as well.

Creslin.1758:

First, I want to thank the few posters on this thread like Bsquared who understood what I am talking about here.

Second this thread has taught me a few things…

1. Many players of a class will rail against ANYTHING that can be considered a nerf, regardless of how small said nerf is. All I am asking for here is to not allow vapor form to go through portals…that’s it. All this would do is prevent Ele’s from using a cheesy tactic to gain immunity to death while defending a keep/tower…it would affect Ele’s in NO OTHER WAY, and yet there is tons of complaining about this potential change. In fact, one dude even said he would quit if vapor form was nerfed (LOLOLOL).

2. Many players seem to feel that an ability should never be nerfed unless it completely breaks WvW. I mean, we all know that this vapor form inside of towers doesn’t completely break WvW. But it’s still a cheap tactic that allows an Ele to fight attackers with almost no risk of death. Just because something doesn’t completely break the game, does not mean it shouldn’t be changed at some point…I don’t think this change should be the highest priority, but I just wanted to point out that it’s a problem and should be changed at some point.

3. Apparently, most players don’t realize there is a difference between MIST form and VAPOR form.

4. Some players will come up with absolutely crazy counter scenarios or theorycrafted limitations to justify an ability that is clearly imbalanced. Some of my favorites from here were:

A. CC the Ele to stop him. Doing this borders on impossible beacause downed purges all conditions, you can vapor form right away, and you can dodge in vapor form. Good luck CCing him during the second it takes him to get inside the tower while he is dodging.

B. Move away from the tower when an Ele comes out and get him to chase you. Yeah…okay, abandon your siege equipment just to try to kill one Ele, that is practical.

C. Line of warding. This will probably work, but it is ONE ability on ONE weapon set of ONE class that has to be ground targeted and timed very well. Unreasonable? Yeah I think so.

D. The cooldown…I keep seeing people argue that vapor form has a CD, and therefore you can’t just do it over and over. I don’t think you guys grasp this well…if you do not get inside the tower on your first vapor form…you are dead. And about the downed state penalty…the idea isn’t to revive, run outside and just instantly die…that’s dumb. The idea is to always have a get out of death free card in your back pocket. It is extremely unlikely that you will get downed frequently enough to die from the downed penalty…even with vapor form doubling it.

At the end of the day…vapor forming inside a tower is just a cheap way to get out of death with nearly 100% certainty and should be changed.

Calling it a “cheap” tactic is subjective though. I can say other classes have cheap tactics to save themselves from dying near a keep. Just because ele can do it when downed doesn’t necessarily give them a significant advantage.

Creslin.1758:

I think you guys are blowing this way out of proportion…this isn’t a “clutch” nerf that would drastically affect Ele playstyle. It would just make it so you can’t abuse vapor form to be unkillable in keep sieges…that’s it.

I’m honestly baffled by how many people think this is such a big deal. In my mind, it is just an irritating gimmick that seems clearly imbalanced when compared to other classes, and should be fixed.

Also, the uber spike BS build was nerfed via the change to assassin’s signet.

Actually, it’s quite the opposite: most of us don’t think this is a big deal, and you’re blowing this way out of proportion. Ele’s downed state going through towers isn’t going to change the outcome of which server wins. Plus, you may not have experiemced them, but there are many counters to prevent an ele from vapor forming into a tower as ppl have mentioned.

Btw most thieves consider the assasin’s signet change a buff…

The opponent always has an advantage fighting near their towers, so no matter which class you fight, there is always a way to safely escape back into their tower and recuperate (except for archers, who usually goes pew pew on top of the wall anyways). Everyone who fights near their own towers knows to look for that “threshold” when they need to fall back, before popping stealth, endure pain, etc. Elementalists have to make sure they are within vapor-form distance to the tower before getting downed, or they’re dead. Even then, they cannot do this an unlimited number of times because of the downed penalty every time you use it.

With the lowest armor and hp pool, I dontt think this gives the elementalist a significant advantage to be able to escape into their towers when downed.

If we look at the big picture, how is one class specifically being able to instantly escape into towers when downed affect WvWvW on the whole? Something like mesmer portals are more game changing than this. I don’t think a server will win because of elementalists being able to vapor form safely into their keeps.

Switching attunments on a male charr elementalist sounds more intimidating than the warrior shouts, especially "fear… me… "

I wonder if Anet will redo any polishing for some of the “misses” in voice acting, but that’ll be wayy down the road…

You made your point, but if you disagree with how ppl post videos and draw wild conclusions from it, doing it yourself in a fit of revenge doesn’t help your cause either.

Dracromir has it spot on: thieves and eles have the lowest health and armor for those reasons.

ZLE.8293:

I red your posts about the situational traits e.t.c.Did you read mine?
Doesn’t a thief with scholar runes needs to be >90% health?Or to be at the back?
And the target to be less than 50%hp for certain traits to apply bonus?Or to be successfully applied condition focus?Or his venom to not be blocked?
Or not to be auto-feared on stun?Can’t you see that the same guys made all classes.
Or you see what is convinient to your eyes only….
And btw i don’t cry,i defend my class against whiners.I don’t care about Backstab(i never use it),i care about the FOTM using of thieves to justify anyone’s inability to play.

Yes, I did read your point. I don’t think thieves should be nerfed because they’re fine the way they are, but eles are are no way in a better situation with burst. I agree too many ppl complain about thieves without proper justification, but the video you linked isn’t a good comparison as that ele build is not realistically viable.

ZLE, You pretty much ignored everyone here who is trying to help you learn. If you continue to see things in black and white, we will be seeing a lot more crying from you. Read the above posts again.

ZLE.8293:

To all QQ about the thief burst damage,just look at the video and we can comment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BDQGDELcUk

Mind that this is SPvP…..
And yes opponent was maybe afk but i don’t see any difference if he wasn’t.

If you read the original thread for this video, the OP mentioned this is a joke build since he just stacked damage traits. An ele can burst hard, but promptly dies. A thief has great burst but escapes if things get messy. Thieves are fine the way they are since that’s their playstyle, but it is in no way comparible to an ele since speccing for burst is suicide, with an occasional kill on an unaware glass cannon.

Edit: by damage traits, they’re extremely situational as ppl above mentioned: 10% damage when health is above 90%, 25% damage when enemy ‘s health below 25%, %10 damage when attuned to fire, etc. You’d have to have a perfect scenario kill to get all the damage buffs, which in the meantine takes all the ele’s valuable trait slots.

azizul.8469:

if you’re looking for Power/Toughness/Vitality exotic gear, you will get them faster by doing HotW or AC dungeon than by exchanging WvW badges…..

But if you’re looking for PVT exotic jewelry, acquiring badges is the only way. As some have mentioned, these things cost wayy more than acquiring exotics from another method. 360+ badges/ring or earring, 525ish badges for the necklace. These costs should definitly be reduced.

@ Stormy O
Thanks for the informative post – I never played a necro, so it’s nice to learn that.

@ Khalifahaze
True, that is a big loss of damage for damage reduction. The feeling depends on the class; I play an elementalist with healing and condition damage, so the toughness really helps and the sacrifice in power is ok since I’m burning enemies down with consistent condition damage.

But in relation to the topic, I find toughness has been consistent throughout.

Khalifahaze.6045:

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Jszv5.jpg[/IMG] – 1k toughness (8.8k backstab)

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/w2kTr.jpg[/IMG] – 2.1k toughness (5.7k backstab)

As you can see there is a damage reduction with toughness. It seems to be around 3k looking at backstab alone. The thief was still able to kill me in just about the same amount of time. The question is, is it worth it to nerf you damage output so greatly for such a slight reduction in damage.

That seems like a significant reduction in damage. The thief may still kill you 1 sec later standing still, but in a live fight it could be the difference between life or death.

Eduardo.4675:

He is a necro; necros scale poorly with toughness, specially if they have low sources of healing. The impact of toughness on a high HP necro with poor healing is significantly lower than on a low health prof with powerfull healing. They are called guardians, by the way.

Wouldn’t toughness benefit necros because they have high hp with low armor? It would provide them with a huge a lot more effective life.

Regardless of class, the right balance between vitality, toughness, and healing power will maximize your effective life. That being said, I haven’t noticed a a nerf in toughness.