Guild Wars 2

A profession that spends deep trait points for condition removal is too strong? Reliable condition removal isn’t free, so if you are against a build that easily shakes off conditions, likely they will be weak in another area.

To some extent, all classes can build to cleanse conditions easily – some better than others, but where they are weaker, they are stronger in other areas. Unless your goal is to make all professions normaized and boring, what’s wrong with variety?

Bunker eles are great at removing conditions and resist attrition battles, but have a low base HP pool. Try well-timed burst – it works wonders.

Yeah, they still have some skill bugs to iron out on all professions. Rush hits pretty slow but hard ; though it does miss a lot.. so there goes the compenstation for having a slow skill animation ><

I disagree that utilities would have to be used often to compensate for the downsides of RTL being like rush. Traiting water attunement to remove 1-2 conditions before switching to air will get eles out of most situations in this case. The use of utilites during RTL would be more of a bonus, like Rtl > lightning flash up a cliff, covering z-axis distances, or Rtl > signet of earth on target > guaranteed updraft if the immob is not cleaned in time.

I don’t think there would be many situations forcing an ele to blow utilities just to escape safely with Rush-version RTL. Even if you have to use them, you’d likely be well out of harms way for your skill to come off cd safely. It’s all speculation though, but on-demand cleansing and easy access to swiftness would make Rush-RTL way too strong.

Hey PistolWhip, been a while :p

And I would totally leave RTL in the dust if they improved staff to be more independently viable!

PistolWhip.2697:

I don’t see the problem with making RTL exactly like a Warrior’s Rush on Greatsword.

This includes, the same speed, the same effected by CC and cool down etc.

Of course, this would ignore the many issues warrior has as a class, but that’s for another topic indeed.

How would it please other Ele’s to have RtL exactly like Rush as a skill? I would’t mind it, but then again….

If you’re having balance issues I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems but RTL aint one.

This was brought up many times before by other suggesting this as an appropriate nerf to RTL, but few understood why this would actually buff bunker specs even more. This is because only the cripple/chill effect was looked at, but looking deeper, we see that:

- Swiftness affects Rush. Eles have easy access to cleansing and swiftness, so RTL would pretty much revert back to being a 1500 range gap closer.

- Utilities and class mechanics are not locked out during Rush, unlike RTL. This can create more problems if eles could use lightning flash, cleansing flame, or signet of earth during RTL.

- Rush can be self-interrupted. If Rtl is made the same, eles would be able to control the distance travelled by Rtl with a press of a button.

As a result, I’m sure we’d get many more complaints from other classes about this if RTL was made to be mechanically exact to warrior’s Rush.

Are you looking for values from pve/wvw or pvp?

Condition damage in death breakdown has been broken for some time now. It doesn’t display the values correctly at all, so in reality, you didn’t take 30k burning damage.

lol mollycoddles

Lert.6287:

Please don’t compare other proffession’s burst (probably you meant thief or mesmer with their high damage and short CD), while elementalist brings highest group support along with guardian.

Why compare burst to a profession’s ability to group support when specced for it?

@OP

The problem with buffing offensive moves like firegrab, is that is also improves bunker specs dealing more damage. We saw how the last patch was meant to tone down bunkers, but offensive/burst eles were hit harder. The other way works the same: buff burst, but bunkers benefit too.

I’m all for improving offensive ele builds, but to do so without breaking bunker builds… we don’t need another round of Fotm and ele crying.

Edit: I am talking mainly about direct changes to weapon skills/utilities that can be used in any build. However, if traits were changed, only builds that have those traits would be affected without throwing other builds out of balance.

It’s funny how these subforums were generally quiet, and after nerfs the trolls reveal themselves and flood the threads with “Ha! Eles deserved the nerf because they were disgustingly OP, I play one and can take on 5 ppl at once, but I don’t have trouble with destroying eles. But they’re OP”.

Right.

A prime example of such trolls is right here: to claim supply drop is garbage and comparing it to FGs. I’d kill to have a supply drop elite with the utility it brings compared to FGs which is, at best, a gimmicky getaway tactic. Chances are if someone complains about FGs, they were killed by one, and that’s just lollingly sad.

When Akuma made his first appearance in street fighter he was sooooooo broken lol

I don’t think our base defenses were nerfed, it feels the same to me. Perhaps youve encountered more offensive builds that’re being tested post-patch. I’ve had ranger pets chew me up halfway across the map though, and they hurt a lot – those creatures are a threat now lol

Been playing an Ele since launch, and it simply feels a lot more clunky to play. I wished the patch had brought more synery in other classes’ trait lines and our fire/air traits as well, but alas the changes they made to this class didn’t open many other viable options in pvp (I’ll give signets a whirl, but it’s not looking too optimiatic atm), and it looks like more boring bunker city.

edit: as some have mentioned above, the quality of life nerf for Rtl hurt more than how it’s balanced for combat. Ride the lightning is such an awesome skill to use – I wish they kept the double cooldown for combat only.

@kostbabis & PowerBottom

I do agree the introduction to direct counters (thief boon-stealing you mentioned is a great one) has made things more difficult for bunker eles, but it will still take more than a solo thief to bring this build down, and that’s no different than pre-patch.

Even with the icd on cleansing water, most condition builds can still be cleansed safely. In the case of mass condition application from necros and engis, you could swap in cleansing flame or ether renewal + armor of the earth. It takes more resources, but imo no enough to shake the meta. If you look at the big picture, the most devastating condition builds wouldn’t just be trouble for eles, but for most other professions as well.

It is still too early to judge, but I don’t think the ele nerfs were going in the right direction in addressing the bunker issue. It just made things clunkier and less fun. I tried the same generic build in tpvp yesterday with the same strategy, and things were pretty much the same even with the big mechanical changes. Only necros gave me a lot more trouble, but that’s fair. I guess in time, we will see how effective this patch is in fixing the meta.

Bunker eles actually haven’t changed much in s/tPvP, because guess what? The nerfs complained incessantly on this forum focused on the wrong things like Rtl. Bunker eles post-patch have virtually the same sustain as before, even with the cleansing wave icd and mist form change. The only difference is that the bunker build is clunkier… that’s it. Dps eles were hit way harder and they’ve never been a problem in competitive play.

We will still see bunker eles in the Meta, and we will still have the same clueless yahoos complaining about the wrong things on why this 0/10/0/30/30 build is OP. Prepare for more whining, nerfs, and kitten flinging because there really hasn’t been any significant changes in metagame balance this patch.

^That would be sooooo cool – I’d roll a ranger for that reason alone.

In tPvP, where most of the ele complaints originated, I use the exact same generic bunker build and did the exact same things pre-patch. I still use mist form to safe stomp, cleansing wave icd still np against most condition builds, and Rtl still gets me out of fights, even if it’s put on a 40 sec cd. The build just feels clunkier, and tPvP players are still bad. In 5 tournaments before getting utterly bored, the only time I died was when only mist form was off cd, and I couldn’t heal through its duration with stacks of bleeds from a necro. Oh well, I guess I’ll cry in the corner because of these appropriate “nerfs”.

However, roaming in wvw isn’t worth it on eles anymore – I just hop on my thief or warrior to save time running between objectives.

Competent x/d eles didn’t need to spam condition removal, but if they really needed a fast way to remove multiple conditions, they can still slot ether renewal or cleansing flame.

Mist form can be replaced by… another cantrip or arcane shield. If you really needed an uninterrupted heal, armor of earth is still pretty good at that.

I think you’re celebrating way too soon – d/d eles will still give you a run for your money if you think those 2 changes were enough to set the build on par.

Would a public test server be feasible to implement? (After other priorities of course)

Same everything, except maybe trade mist form for cleansing flame or something else.

Honestly, this patch changed very little in sPvP. If anything, eles are pushed further into bunkering.

This actually only affects out of combat roaming in pve and wvw. This doesn’t fix much in tPvP as you pretty much need 1 Rtl to get to a point, and in combat, you can still use it for your escape unless you waste the cooldown. Whether it’s on a 20 or 40 sec cd, you probably won’t need to use it a second time after bailing from a fight (on an spvp map of course)

I predict more complaints of Rtl after patch because tpvp had the most complaints about this skill, yet the skill hasn’t changed much in combat. Chances are, if you bail using Rtl, everything is on cd and if the enemy is still able to catch you, the fight will end whether your rtl is on 20s or 40s cd.

Kinda sucks for PvE/Wvw though no more zipping acrosss maps at mach speed.

Their bunker builds need a nerf, but their dps builds should remain intact.

I was simply pointing out the fallacies in your argument. Most players, including you, that cry OP eles don’t actually know why they are strong in the meta. Damage and mobility are not the main issues with eles currently. Fix the bunkering, the rest will fall into place.

This is a forum btw, anyone is free to discuss whatever they want within the forum rules.

@Mr.big – You’re describing a completely different build that isn’t “simply variations of the same water/arcana build” (your words). That build has dps, but nowhere near the surviability that comes with bunker water/arcane builds.

Thanks for trying though.

That is on a dps build, sacrificing a lot of surviability to be able to burst with arcane utilities. Mr.big was referring to hybrid bunker builds that somehow do that sort of damage reliably.

Mrbig.8019:

Cirax.9231:

Mrbig.8019:

Cirax.9231:

Mrbig.8019:

zephyr boons is your friend.

runes of the pack also.

tell me how a char with 3k power and 40% crit chance (due to nearly permanent fury up) is not dps.

this with a standard 0-20-0-20-30 build (with D/D you have costant fury and with S/D your burst is based on attunement swap, that guess what, gives you fury, so you don’t even need zephyr boon).

think the issue here is most eles not only don’t know how to play the class, but don’t even know how to make a build.

Because the 2.5 secs of fury you get on attunement swap surely gives enough time to land burst on s/d. And good luck landing burst with that weapon set in high tier play.

Without boon duration runes, you will not have perma fury on d/d either.

Maybe you should take your own advice and learn your own class before trying to grasp another? clearly you’ve never actually played an ele.

the moment when someone who believes S/D burst is in fire attunement tells you to l2p…

/facepalm

and yes, 2, 5 secs are more than enough to casrlt phoenix+ dragon’s tooth + fire grab

And you provide a realistic example of s/d burst in fire attunement. Wonderful contradiction. Save yourself from digging a deeper hole and play the class lol

S/D burst is not in fire attunement. Period.

Fire rotation is simply another way to dish out crapload of AoE on the point forcing any class not built for survival to go away and kite, leaving the point free for a decap, unless he wants to eat a 4k dragon’s tooth in da face.

If you don’t know your own class, it’s better if you spend your time learning it instead of posting useless nonsense in forums.

You’re the one who is saying burst is in fire attunment, not me. Read your own posts.

But do enlighten the forums on s/d burst in other attunments using 2.5 seconds of fury on a valk build.

Any competent player knows s/d is known for its bunkering. Btw, dragon’s tooth aoe doesn’t cover the entire point in conquest – it looks like you ate some s/d burst and you’re kitten over it. It’s a huge l2p if you get burst by s/d.

Don’t lie to yourself. Play the class and learn it.

Mrbig.8019:

Cirax.9231:

Mrbig.8019:

zephyr boons is your friend.

runes of the pack also.

tell me how a char with 3k power and 40% crit chance (due to nearly permanent fury up) is not dps.

this with a standard 0-20-0-20-30 build (with D/D you have costant fury and with S/D your burst is based on attunement swap, that guess what, gives you fury, so you don’t even need zephyr boon).

think the issue here is most eles not only don’t know how to play the class, but don’t even know how to make a build.

Because the 2.5 secs of fury you get on attunement swap surely gives enough time to land burst on s/d. And good luck landing burst with that weapon set in high tier play.

Without boon duration runes, you will not have perma fury on d/d either.

Maybe you should take your own advice and learn your own class before trying to grasp another? clearly you’ve never actually played an ele.

the moment when someone who believes S/D burst is in fire attunement tells you to l2p…

/facepalm

and yes, 2, 5 secs are more than enough to casrlt phoenix+ dragon’s tooth + fire grab

And you provide a realistic example of s/d burst in fire attunement. Wonderful contradiction. Save yourself from digging a deeper hole and play the class lol

Mrbig.8019:

zephyr boons is your friend.

runes of the pack also.

tell me how a char with 3k power and 40% crit chance (due to nearly permanent fury up) is not dps.

this with a standard 0-20-0-20-30 build (with D/D you have costant fury and with S/D your burst is based on attunement swap, that guess what, gives you fury, so you don’t even need zephyr boon).

think the issue here is most eles not only don’t know how to play the class, but don’t even know how to make a build.

Because the 2.5 secs of fury you get on attunement swap surely gives enough time to land burst on s/d. And good luck landing burst with that weapon set in high tier play.

Without boon duration runes, you will not have perma fury on d/d either.

Maybe you should take your own advice and learn your own class before trying to grasp another? clearly you’ve never actually played an ele.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/The-map-is-utter-unbalanced-rubbish/

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Will-the-elementalist-be-nerfed-next-patch/first

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/They-buffed-the-elementalist/

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/I-actually-prefer-the-meta-after-the-patch/

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/The-ele-is-game-breakingly-good-on-spirit/

Choose any of the above, and save time from reading more of the same garbage in this thread.

Bas.7406:

Haha, I think the only profession that has no one signed up to represent the elementalist in this profession specific tournament queing. We have a Ranger team, two Necro teams, a Guardian team, a Mesmer team, almost an Engineer Team, 2 short of a Thief team, and 3 short of a full warrior team. Totally floored that I can’t get a single elementalist.

Maybe eles are reluctant to participate in this tournament because it may stir up the tPvP community about the “all-ele team” meta :p. I’m very curious to see if it’s actually true!

I won’t be able to participate, but kudos for running an interesting tournament

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Launch

Launch skills have a different mechanic than regular stun/knockbacks/pulls. You have to use your stun breaker after you’ve landed on the ground, not immediately, or it won’t work.

Few skills launch, but updraft is one of them.

Henqquli.5078:

If you rarely hit with Ele, you are doing something wrong.

Thief is most mobile class yes, but thief doesnt have insane heal, tankiness, combo finisher / combo fields like eles does.

Mobility: 25% Move speed signed, Teleport, Ride the lightning, Swiftness, Lightning field + blash finisher, mist form.
Combo: Fire, Lightning, Water, Ice
Finisher: Blash, Projectile, Leap, Whirl

Eles are overpowered, you can deny it but they are. I have about 700 hours on my elementalist, and this is a fact.
They need a nerf, there is a reason why pro players complain about them.

Henqquli.5078:

Actually no.
600 hours in pvp.
Over 1100 matches in TOURNAMENT pvp.

Pro players do complain for example Hellseth.
Just because you love your overpowered elementalist doesn’t make it any less overpowered.

Over 1100 tournament matches, and you still have no idea why this spec is overpowered, claiming this build to have all the combo fields in the world and 5 utilities. Don’t lie.

If you’ve actually been in touch with the pvp community, you’d understand that most players, even eles, agree the bunker spec is strong, but argue against claims such as yours which is based on hearsay instead of facts.

A pro player says this game sucks and you should uninstall. You would follow suit because he’s “pro”? If you can’t think for yourself and basing your opinions off of others, then you are not fit to make balance comments.

^when PvE players complain about PvP balance.

I would love a weapon set that has all those combo fields and finishers in one. Dat speed signet is OP though, but no one uses it because we know it’s overpowered.

Btw, “pro” players don’t complain, they justify. Players only complain when they don’t understand whay they’re talking about.

Convenant.7092:

There are no 5 man groups around except for us when we play. It’s the current reality in T2.

That’s odd, I’ve encountered a fair share of 4-5 man squads in T2 other than AoN, from FA, TC, and Kain.

It is harder to find them with seas of zergs everywhere after the wxp patch, but in that respect, I like the OP’s idea in organizing small-man fights.

avilo.1923

Stealth has counters…aoe and game knowledge. I started as a thief, and am leveling up a DPS elementalist. If you have not played a thief extensively then you will have no clue what the thief is doing, or where he is moving when stealthed.

Coming from thief class to ele, it’s a lot easier to read where and what a thief is doing from having played the class.

I have to disagree – you can only predict a bad thief in stealth. You will never truly catch a good thief, because stealth provides a situation where you can see your enemy’s movement while concealing yours. Unless cornered, on conquest, or attacking from stealth, you won’t be able to catch a competent thief if he wants to get away, similar to arguments about eles RTLing away.

I’ve played ele primarily before going to thief (both 80 pve, rank 20-30 pvp by thief) and it is obscenely easier to read your enemies actions in stealth and react to it, and with no real hard counter to detect stealth, you can juke away while watching your enemies frantically throwing random aoe in the distance.

vinceftw.5086:

I’m pretty much fine for any class though. Except maybe thieves. While they are great finishers and can wreck havoc, I dislike the constant stealthing, this means the other group will all focus me or the thief will SR and you take full focus.

I actually find this to be an advantage when running a thief + bunker duo. While the bunker flashes around drawing focus, he can survive the hits while the thief slinks in the background, and drops a target fast.

Bogartan.2756:

While I understand why some guild-only or premade groups wouldn’t want people tagging along, it’s not how WvW is designed. It seems like another game mode is needed to appeal to people that want to play this way, like TPvP with larger teams or different maps.

This is exactly what I was thinking. Nothing wrong with team/guild pride in your accomplishments as Tek mentioned. Some sort of team battlegrounds (5v5, 15v15, etc.) or GvG would be great. WvW feels like it gives you the freedom to fight for your server however you want (sans griefing others, cheating) but to turn away allies aiming for the same objective isn’t cool imo.

I have to say though, wouldn’t a skilled n vs n battle feel more accomplished than n vs disorganized pub? It feels good beating number odds, but it seems more of an accomplishement defeating an organized group rather the 4 v 30 you hear about.

@Tek

That sounds fair enough. My argument, on one side of the spectrum, is that if your group is roaming towards objectives, fighting small group skirmishes on the way, you will likely have puggers aiming for the same objective – you can’t really turn them away in this situation, and I’d suggest wp and roam to another side of the map if your group wants to be alone.

However, if someone follows your group to the ends of the earth for no real reason, that can be a problem. I hope when this happens, the player is explained as to why they should move away from the group. But I’ve seen more and more rude comments towards these players and it’s really unwarranted.

@Aeonblade

<3 to guardians because when they show up, suddenly everyone has greater surviability

Convenant.7092:

Leablo.2651:

Xephens.3217:

The only valid reason groups dont want you to follow them is because the enemy can rally on your death. On the other hand let the enemy rally is something you shouldnt allow in the first place by finishing off downed players.

The enemy can rally on anyone’s death. What makes it elitist is the assumption that this random joiner is going to die before any of us do. Some guy they don’t know can’t possibly be a better player than the people on their team.

These groups need to get over themselves.

Start dealing with reality, buddy. Not everyone’s on the same skill level.

This is more about the assumption that random taggers are automatic liabilities. While this may often be the case, there are lots strong soloers out there that happen to be temporarily running with your group because you are aiming for the same objectives.
——————
With comments about “saving” your buffs for your group, that’s pretty selfish imo. If not fighting in a GvG, you are fighting for your server. An ally is just as equal as your teammate. If the pubber is inexperienced/upleveled, they would need the buffs more than your ascended teammate, and if they die when you could’ve helped them, you do more harm to your team that way with the free rally. If anything, group support skills aren’t on an abysmall cd – if you miss your team, reapply.

Yes, shout out to teacher peoples! I remember getting yelled at for placing a cata right where the enemy was catapulting.. but I learned :p

Teaching newer players is one thing. Telling them to pretty much screw off is another.

@Niim

Good points. It’s more of the rude players I’m aiming for – there are a lot of roaming groups out there that have good gaming attitudes, but I found many rude ones come from tPvP and somehow think they own the place. While having inexperienced players near you can be a liability, politely asking or shaking them off by tping works, but if they also want to attack the same enemy camp, no one really has say to stop them.

Darek.1836:

In their defense it gets really annoying when some bad pvper tagging along
gets stomped and rallies several people

Understandable, but if puggers want to flip the same camp as the roaming team, they shouldn’t be turned away for them. Rallying off inexperienced/uplevlels sucks, but it’s part of the game and happens everywhere else too.

@ Wyldkat

This is more towards newer players in WvW who I’ve seen many times being ridiculed by elitists when they are going for the same objective or following small groups to learn more about WvW. I ignore them myself, but when I see this happening to my allies, it’s bothersome, especially for those who are trying out WvW.

@Danielle

Politely asking, understandable. Being rude/arrogant? Unnecessary. Even if a group politely asks to go elsewhere, it isn’t griefing if you’re also going for the same enemy yak or supply camp. It may be different if you’re followed to the ends of the map w/o an objective, but more often than not this isn’t the case.

I find this is happening more often in WvW, where 4-5 man roaming groups from tPvP would say to anyone near them for too long, things like “go away”, “why are you following us?”, “are you looking to be carried?”

You know they are a tPvP team when they are in the same guild, all have champion slayer titles, and are (often) Asura. Most roamers (whether solo/duo, learning uplevels, skirmish team, etc) aim for the same objectives without following the commander and the main force. If it so happens you are going for the same supply camp as your allies, no one has the right to tell anyone to go elsewhere. WvW gives players the freedom to fight for their server however they please, and your gaming “background” doesn’t mean you can bring your elitist attitude to WvW, as it belongs to everyone fighting for your server.

Tl;dr – Some (not all) tPvP teams need to get off their high horse and play WvW as a server, not to glorify themselves with “lol 4v30” videos. Treat your allies with respect.

It feels like a glitch that has recently come up – this applies to any ground targeted teleport on an uneven terrain like stairs. It used to not happen, but for the past month, you often get stuck inside the ground and you can’t move until you can teleport again.

Yep- rank, being on a team, having a stream link doesn’t dictate the player’s capability to think.

Here is a great representation on how real competitive players analyze builds:

!http://symbolictp.wordpress.com/2013/04/10/analysis-of-cantrips-elementalists/!

…and players who claim eles have burst, sustain, bunker, Gandalf, etc. all in one build have never actually played the profession.

Caffynated.5713:

This is what’s wrong with MMO forums. You get a bunch of people who don’t even understand how game mechanics work talking to each other, and then the nonsense that they talk about become “facts” to them because they have a bunch of other terribles agreeing with it.

Yes, 0 0 10 30 30 S/D Cantrip ele with cleric’s ammy is OP. It’s a little too survivable for its level of mobility and group support. The D/D version is strong, but it has more limitations, so I wouldn’t call it OP.

All this other garbage about burst and hybrid eles being OP is just terrible players who no one should take seriously.

What makes this even worse is that many of these players claim to be elite, post their rank/team in their signature and suddenly, every one of their posts becomes an irrefutable truth. Experienced players will look past the ego, but newer players visiting the forum read a boatload of misinformation from angry players and stunts their learning experience.

The blind arrogance in these forums is staggering, and the amount of exaggerated claims from frustrated players shows how these players generally rely on hearsay instead of trying/learning game mechanics first hand.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Eles gonna be eles. It is a psychological thing. The OP never sees themselves as OP; rather just better than others.

Because launch skills are exclusive to eles right? Oh wait, warriors have an aoe launch too! Nerf asap!!!!!

@evilapprentice

You make a valid point about being vulnerable to coordinated attacks in the air. However, it still doesn’t leave a lot of time to dps if a stun break is used after landing on the ground. Having been launched numerous times, rarely I have taken severe damage while airborne. I guess it’s up for the devs to decide whether this mechanic stays or not.

Of course! As Charr, we are the beauty, and humans are the beast :p

(8)…true as it can be! (8)

evilapprentice.6379:

So its only 1.5 seconds of unbreakable stun then? I suppose that’s not as bad as 3s, but still unacceptable. No skill should have even .1s of unbreakable stun.

The reason I “Spam” my stunbreaker after an updraft is because its always, ALWAYS followed by Burning Speed->Ring of Fire-> Fire grab. I wonder why that is? Is it because the ele knows, for a fact, that you’ll still be there because most stunbreakers don’t work for a set amount of time after updraft? I’m willing to bet yes!

I do agree it sucks being launched and you have to wait a bit to use a stun break, but it’s a mechanic in the game so our opinions are subjective.

However, you should still be able to time your stun break after being updrafted before the ele can use the burning speed combo – I’ve avoided the combo after being updrafted, as well as seen enemy players escape mine as well. Try it with a friend in the mists – once you get the timing, it’s not that bad.

evilapprentice.6379:

That is unfortunately not how it works. If you shadow return from an Updraft, you will port back…to be “stunned” for the normal duration of the ability in a different place.

This doesn’t happen if you wait to use shadowstep/return when your body has settled on the ground, about 1.5 seconds after being updrafted.

evilapprentice.6379:

How is a stun+displacement (knocking people in and out of combo fields, into environmental hazards, off points) weaker thban just a stun? Why does it need to be unbreakable in addition?

You don’t get infinite dodges – something being dodgable doesn’t make it ok for that ability to be the only effect in the game that’s a guaranteed unbreakable stun. There’s no skill involved with “I hit you with this ability, so eat it for 3 seconds and you have absolutely no recourse”. To clarify, I’m not claiming “wah, I hit my stunbreaker and it didn’t work”, I’m saying “I know my stunbreaker doesn’t work on this skill, and that’s the problem. There shouldn’t be 2 classes of stuns in the game, 1 which is breakable by an ability explicitly designed to break stun, and one that isnt.”

When you change something that’s clearly OP, its a fix not a nerf. Thats why BV was fixed, not nerfed.

Edit: Just a quick glance at Personal Battering Ram and Updraft counter your “Longer casting time/longer recharge” argument. .25s ct 45cd with a 20% reduction talent for Battering ram and Instant with a 40s CD for Updraft – not exactly crippling cast times and CD’s.

Launches (in your case stun+) are not unbreakable, don’t force you to eat 3 seconds of death without recourse, and updraft knocks you back half the distance compared to battering ram, hence the difference in cast times.

There are few skills in the game that launch, and you have to time your stunbreaker, rather than spam it whenever you’re disabled.

Lupanic.6502:

Yes but with an ele you can beat every opponent even as a causal player. If you play warrior you will eat dust all the time.

you read a build and a short guide, you create your very first ele and join hotjoin games. You will never be the last player at the scoretable. Maybe you do not rock in your first games, but you will not suffer hard. Same for thief.

And then go and create your very first warrior….

The first time I played a warrior in hot join, I ate everyone up with just a greatsword. It doesn’t matter what profession you are, if you’re playing against less experienced players, you’ll just outright beat them – this isn’t exclusive to thieves and eles.

Tpvp is another story… warriors do need love and bunker eles are strong, but not as strong as many players claim as the OP is trying to explain. Lots of "ELE OP’ bandwagoners who don’t actually understand what makes ele bunkering strong and blame things like “escapes”.