Guild Wars 2

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Safari.3021:

In game Polls:

Barmen.

You talk to a barman in a tavern, they chat yto you, ask you questions, you give your responses.

Anet get their poll.
Player recieves tankard of ale for their time.

Encourage participation by making “visit tavern for a drink” a daily achievement when a poll is needed

haha this makes ingame polls actually immersive, nice idea Only problem I can think of: how do you make the connection between the things you want to ask about (a specific event etc.) and the dialogue?

What are your guys’ thoughts on the mockups I did on page 15?

Sondergaard.8469:

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

snip

This x1000. I love the mockups you did of this. Very well put together. Though I think there would be an issue if the survey had multiple pages and it used a ‘next’ or ‘skip’ button like the proposed interface suggests.

That issue being that users could not go back and change an answer to more accurately reflect their thoughts on the subject. A scroll bar would probably work better in this scenario, with visual dividers built into the list to help break up the questions by topic. Like so…

Question Group 1
Question 1: Question?
Question 2: Question?
Question 3: Question?
_________________

Question Group 2
Question 1: Question?
Question 2: Question?
Question 3: Question?

Thanks.

I assumed there would be a scrollbar to quickly move up and down the survey. The skip would be to skip the survey, not the pages.

Taking a few ideas mentioned here, and some of my own, I have mocked up an idea of how in-game surveys could work.

1. Login Screen

(See first and second image below)

- When players log in for the first time after the survey goes live, they are presented with a prompt that asks them to choose whether they would like to participate in the survey or not.

- If players choose not to participate, they are shown a prompt that explains that they can turn on the survey in settings.

2. In-game survey

(See last two images)

- Once a player has opted into the online survey a new icon shows up on the menu bar.

- When a player completes an event that has a survey attached to it, they will be prompted with an alert icon (similar to when new mail comes), so they can see they have a new survey to fill out.

This could also be accompanied by a carrier pigeon, or some other animal.

- When players have time, they can open the survey panel and fill out the surveys they’re interested in (or skip the ones they’re not).

- Surveys are only displayed once, and once they’ve been submitted they disappear from the list, unless they’re updated and require a new survey (Eg. Tequatl)

*See images below for more

Taking a few ideas mentioned here, and some of my own, I have mocked up an idea of how in-game surveys could work.

1. Login Screen

(See first and second image below)

- When players log in for the first time after the survey goes live, they are presented with a prompt that asks them to choose whether they would like to participate in the survey or not.

- If players choose not to participate, they are shown a prompt that explains that they can turn on the survey in settings.

2. In-game survey

(See last two images)

- Once a player has opted into the online survey a new icon shows up on the menu bar.

- When a player completes an event that has a survey attached to it, they will be prompted with an alert icon (similar to when new mail comes), so they can see they have a new survey to fill out.

This could also be accompanied by a carrier pigeon, or some other animal.

- When players have time, they can open the survey panel and fill out the surveys they’re interested in (or skip the ones they’re not).

- Surveys are only displayed once, and once they’ve been submitted they disappear from the list, unless they’re updated and require a new survey (Eg. Tequatl)

*See images below for more

Shockwave.1230:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

So by the way we have two main topics of conversation now:

1: Polls: Every seems to like them but where do they go?
2: Game Feedback Collaboration: How do we want to do this?

Chris

1. It might be best if first we’d figure out whether in game polls would be opt-out or opt-in, or both.

1a. Opt-out – If doing opt-out it makes sense to make it very visible. It’d be important to provide a very simple opt-out function for those who would prefer immersion not be impacted. Having a setting to toggle the opt-out shouldn’t be forgotten.
1ai. The login screen would be a logical place
1aii. Being a UI element upon immediate login could work

1b. Opt-in – If doing an opt-in approach it makes sense to have this be more of a hidden feature.
1bi. A menu item to access it could work
1bii. Also I saw a suggestion about using an in game npc, which would help with immersion.

That all said, there’s probably very little preventing both an opt-in and opt-out from approach implemented to accommodate the most amount of people. Since, they can feasibly be mutually exclusive of each other it may make sense to do.

There is nothing to say you can’t pop up a opt-in notice for the first time the player logs in.

“Would you like to turn on in-game surveys?”

“We value your feedback, and as such we are asking players to provide feedback as they play. Choosing “yes” will mean that in certain places you will receive a special chest that contains a survey on the content you just competed."

“For a more in depth discussion, join us on our forums.”

“You’ve chosen not to participate, if you change your mind, you can turn this option on in the setting menu under "whatever""

Then, as player complete in game tasks, they are presented with a survey chest, which they can skip, or complete.

I’m trying to figure out how this would work for non-combat/event aspects like RNG, gem store items, etc.

Skan.5301:

Also it would work in game for things people do on there. The forums aren’t populated by many of the players.

I’ve been saying this for a while now.

The problem with using the forums as the place for information is that many players don’t use it. When asking for feedback, I think it needs to be in-game. It is the only way that ANet can get the best possible representation of the community at large.

While the “vocal minority” on this forum aren’t necessarily right, nor wrong, it is a very small sample size of the overall player base.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

minbariguy.7504:

I want to echo the people who have recently been requesting in-game polls. Since currently there has been no real acknowledgement or response to player dissatisfaction with the pace of Living Story releases, I have chosen to simply not log in at all to avoid being counted as a “satisfied customer” in your concurrency metrics.

An in-game poll where I would have the chance to have my opinions actually be counted would be something worth logging in for.

I think this is an idea worth discussion for sure. But i have a question:

Would in game polls affect the immersion for the player?

Chris

I have a question for you.

Do you think it would affect it any more or less than?

- The constant bugs that remain and are introduced each month.
- The artificial time-gated content
- Living World stories that come and go without much change
- Living World remnants that never get removed, solved, or changed
- Purple player models, invisible enemies.
- Fuzzy animal hats
- Zerg farming
- etc

At this point, we can pretty much agree that the level of immersion in is game isn’t exactly super high. The Living World feels more like a scripted episode of “Full House” more than it does a dynamic, living, growing exciting, unpredictable world.

At this point, I would rather you provide an in-game feedback system and use it to effectively improve the game, than continue to “experiment” and hope it works. Neither of us has unlimited time, resources and patience. We meet to optimize all of those thing the best way we can, so we can get this game straitened out before it’s too late.

You’re asking for our patience, but honestly, you’re asking a lot. You’ve not done enough as a company to gain the trust an loyalty of many players to be asking for such things. I feel that you need to put your egos aside, and understand that in the short term, listening, and tpgathering feedback from the players you still have, will to only help solidify our relationship, but hopefully improve the game to the point where this isn’t an issue.

I am sorry you feel this way, personally i feel the team has worked really hard in an extremely challenging and important endeavour. I can also guarantee you that whilst the team is human and makes mistakes they certainly don’t have an inflated ego (-:

But i digress and disagree and look forward to getting back to the productive side of this forum discussion.

Chris

I never said you weren’t working hard, or that you didn’t care. When I talk about ego, I mean that it can be hard to admit when something just isn’t working as intended.

I’m a graphic designer (formally a makeup artist) so I know that feeling when the client doesn’t jump for joy, or understand your vision. It is very hard to get past that, “pffft, what does that jerk know, I’m the pro here!” mentality.

Approaching your community with clear, honest tones (like you’re attempting here), is a much better approach than telling us were nothing more than a vocal minority, and that “we are listening” only to not listen.

Of course it should be one topic at a time. Trying to sort out multiple discussions is confusing for everyone.

If an ANet dev started a new post, with a clear and honest topic, I think you’ll get a lot of good, focused replies.

Take a page out of Josh Forman’s book. He was really good at staying focused, and explaining why things were done, acknowledging good ideas, and giving honest feedback on ideas.

We understand that not every topic will lead to exactly what we all collectively want, but it would be a really good start to getting some great feedback.

The trick here will be to word things in a way that is conducive to getting great feedback.

To me, it’s simple.

1. Create / reintroduce an in-game feedback system similar to the one created for beta.
2. At the bottoms have a space for buttons.
– if player inputs any data, change button to “submit”
– else, buttons show “skip” and “stop bugging me”
3. Until player chooses to opt out, the game will prompt users
4. Allow users to “opt-in” through setting menu

That said, I’m not sure we need this much micro data. I think it could be valuable to have a survey pop up at login, and ask a series of questions relating to the game in general. While it would be nice to have feedback for each battle, I don’t think it’s needed.

You just need to get some data to see if certain things are working or not.

EDIT: Someone mentioned above an NPC for surveys. I think this has a lot of merit. There are a bunch of clever, fun, not immersion breaking ways to integrate these into the world. If desired.

In the end, it think whatever method used it needs to be easy to find, use, and understand. The questions need to be fair, and honest.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

minbariguy.7504:

I want to echo the people who have recently been requesting in-game polls. Since currently there has been no real acknowledgement or response to player dissatisfaction with the pace of Living Story releases, I have chosen to simply not log in at all to avoid being counted as a “satisfied customer” in your concurrency metrics.

An in-game poll where I would have the chance to have my opinions actually be counted would be something worth logging in for.

I think this is an idea worth discussion for sure. But i have a question:

Would in game polls affect the immersion for the player?

Chris

I have a question for you.

Do you think it would affect it any more or less than?

- The constant bugs that remain and are introduced each month.
- The artificial time-gated content
- Living World stories that come and go without much change
- Living World remnants that never get removed, solved, or changed
- Purple player models, invisible enemies.
- Fuzzy animal hats
- Zerg farming
- etc

At this point, we can pretty much agree that the level of immersion in is game isn’t exactly super high. The Living World feels more like a scripted episode of “Full House” more than it does a dynamic, living, growing exciting, unpredictable world.

At this point, I would rather you provide an in-game feedback system and use it to effectively improve the game, than continue to “experiment” and hope it works. Neither of us has unlimited time, resources and patience. We meet to optimize all of those thing the best way we can, so we can get this game straitened out before it’s too late.

You’re asking for our patience, but honestly, you’re asking a lot. You’ve not done enough as a company to gain the trust an loyalty of many players to be asking for such things. I feel that you need to put your egos aside, and understand that in the short term, listening, and tpgathering feedback from the players you still have, will to only help solidify our relationship, but hopefully improve the game to the point where this isn’t an issue.

ANet,

Since you’re reading posts, and looking to involve yourself more in community feedback, here are a few posts I’ve written in the last year that have addressed this.

Feel free to take a few moments and give them a look.

In-Game voting suggestion

Link: Here

Posted: Sept 9th, 2012

Vocal Minority

Link: Here

Posted: Nov 25th, 2012

Treating us like friends instead of gem purchasers

Link: Here

Posted: March 15th, 2013

These are just my posts. There have been countless others that have provided very constructive feedback as to how to engage with us. It seems very strange that you keep saying that you want to work on this game ‘together’, be more black and white, and engage the community more….yet you reprimand devs that dedicate their own time to do just this, remain silent for days, never address threads with a huge amount of feedback, and release things into the game no one asked for, or cares about.

Pavel.8531:

Am I the only one that thinks this post was just one lengthy “throw some dust in their eyes” damage control type? Because after months of ignoring feedback and even stating that the forums are a vocal minority so they don’t care for them as long as they don’t notice players leaving the game it is hard for me to just accept this on blind faith.

I’m certain this has a lot to do with it.

There are some pretty obvious “tells” in the post.

Sarrs.4831:

, and this is supposed to be a finished product.

Supposed to be….. indeed.

I would rather have the option to provide feedback that leads to ANet finding something that works, than not have it and just take what they give us.

I’m not opposed to providing feedback if it improves things. Hell, I spend enough time on these forums voicing my opinion, only to have them fall to page 403.

This is a fantastic idea!

I find it very odd that something that they’ve already implemented, has not been improved upon and integrated back into the game.

That said….

I think the questions asked need to be considered as to make sure they’re not providing conflicting or worse excessively favourable feedback. What I mean is that, if you look at any scientific study, you’ll see that the way questions are asked make a huge difference on the results.

All n’ all this is a great idea.

nethykins.7986:

If Chris finds the forums quite contradictory/not helpful for a lot of elements in relation to feedback, perhaps a post those very forums was a bit of a backwards move?

-snip-

I couldn’t agree more. In fact I suggested the exact same thing over a year ago, and it was largely ignored.

I know a few will take issue with the “mandatory” part, and I am torn. On one hand, it makes sense to “persuade” players to give feedback, but on the other I’m not sure if that would result in the best feedback if someone is forced to do it before they can play.

I think the best solution is to include a survey on the character select screen that allows users the option to fill it out.

I just wanted to say a few quick words in regards to the “manifesto.”

I think for many it is the running joke (for some it is much more serious) around here that ANet used the manifesto as nothing more than something to prop under the leg of a wobbly table.

For many in the community, it can be super frustrating to hear devs continuously ask for patience for all the great things coming, when for many those words have lost all meaning.

When a community supports something based on the promises and expectations set by someone, it can be very disheartening when you feel like you’ve been manipulated.

So, as your parents used to (or should have said), do what you say you’re going to do. IF you claim you’re going to be more, “black n’ white” then don’t just say it…do it. Posts like this by ANet make us feel nice for a few moments, but in reality it’s just fluff.

That said, here is what I think the solution is.

create an in-game system that allows players to provide feedback to honest questions

Don’t do it on the forums, or through email, or hidden away in some Reddit feed. It needs to be available in-game, to all players.

Hello Chris,

Thank you for taking the time to post.

Since you mentioned that you read many of the posts on the forums, especially the ones that are polite and respectful, please allow me to express my thoughts.

In the last year or so, I have noticed a lot of ANet devs popping on the forums to remind everyone that our posts are being read and considered. I’ve also noticed that it often includes a plea for players to be patient, and understand that “big things” are coming.

The problem however is that there seems to e a disconnect between what is being said, and what is being done.

Since day one, many forum users have been asking for more clear communication in regards to the game. This means that not only listening to our ideas and feedback, but engaging us on ideas that are, and aren’t working. Most of us feel that communication and respect are a two way street, and when we take our time to support your game, write posts, create art, etc, only to be faced with coldly calculated public relations responses (or worse silence), it can be a bit frustrating when someone finally shows up and asks us all to be respectful and have patience.

Secondly, there have been times when certain ANet employees have taken a very active role on the forums (which you’ve stated you would like to do), much to the delight of the community, only to be slapped on the wrist and silenced.

I feel that if you’re going to ask for our continued patience and support, that you start being much more transparent (or black and white as you’ve put it). We need to know what you’re planning, and what we can expect, so we’re not sitting here six months from now even more frustrated and concerned.

As well, I think you guys need to consider a more directed approach to gaining player feedback. The forums are great, but too many ideas, too many opinions, and too many conflicting opinions, make trying to gather any sort of meaningful feedback a very difficult task. Many have suggested creating an honest feedback system (I suggested an in-game system almost a year ago) that would give ANet some of that “Feeling” feedback that login data clearly lacks.

I think you’ll find that most of your community will show you the respect and patience you desire, if we get the feeling that you’re after our hearts and minds, as much, if not more than our wallets. We love your game, and we want to support it, but most of us don’t have the time to wait around as your Guinea Pigs, while you experiment.

Find a way to get clear and honest feedback, and then be transparent with what you say, and what you plan to do. I think you’ll find that when your community feels like we’re “friends” instead of “gem store potentials” we’ll be putty in your hands.

jsduke.6537:

CrazyfaceMurphy

0_o

jsduke.6537:

CrazylegsMcGillicutty

o_0

jsduke.6537:

SillyFaceMcMurphyLegs.

>.<

Shrugs

\o/

jsduke.6537:

Yeah, so I was using humor to make my point. I won’t make that mistake again.

How about this:

Time-gated content is not, “play how you want”.

Time-gated content is, “play how you want… as long as you do it THIS way.”

Time-gated content is, “play how you want… but not TOO much.”

Time-gated content is, “play how you want… but do it QUICK or miss out.”

I understand that there are justifications for time-gating certain content.

I understand that not every player has a problem with time-gated content.

But let’s not pretend that time-gating content is still “play how you want” because it clearly isn’t. It’s an artificial restriction on what we’re allowed to do in game.

I understood what you were saying, even with the humour and I totally agree. One of the things that is really, REALLY, starting to get under my skin with this game is the fact that I don’t want to have to feel like I have to play every day.

If I do decide to dedicate a weekend or whatever to the game, I don’t want to be always running into artificial time-gated content that won’t allow me to move forward.

This is a disturbing trend in GW2.

Raziel.4216:

What data are you using to reach this conclusion “LS is proving to be a larger and larger disappointment” ? The only one with access to real, non-anecdotal (worthless) evidence is Anet, and they decided to increase the # of LS per month, so I doubt it’s dissapointing.

They have data that shows how long, and how often I’ve done some task, but they don’t have my personal thoughts on them. If they choose to come to a conclusion (that I like the content) without considering any other variables, and then create even more content based on that conclusion, there will be a tipping point.

I think many players (based on these forums, in-game dead zones, map chat, etc) are growing increasingly impatient with the “Living Story.” Many, myself included are struggling with our feelings on this one.

I feel torn because ANet will release new content that I don’t really enjoy, but I will do it anyway, for various reasons. I feel guilty because ANet sees me running along, mashing the “1” key and assumes I want more of that. The next update comes along, and it gets a little worse.

Now, what has happened is that I struggle to even log in. When I do, I blast through the content as fast as I can, so I don’t have to feel pressure to log in for the next two weeks. I read the update notes, wait for the patch, rinse and repeat.

It’s a circular feedback loop that will never be broken until ANet steps up and starts actually connecting player satisfaction with their time in game. If they don’t, a point will come where players will simply not come back.

See. Now we are getting down to it. You came to the conclusion that because I’m doing something, I must therefore enjoy it.

The fact is that I don’t really like the AP system. It outs too much focus on rewards then it does fun. The reason I “want” to get AP is because that is currently how the game is designed.

I “want” gold/gear/laurels and so in order to do that, I must play the game as ANet has designed it. For example, I don’t like doing dailies because I find them to be a waste of time, yet I want laurels.

So, ANet sees me log in, complete dailies and decides I must enjoy it.

My guess would be your pet.

It’s the same as the achievement in Fractals, when you fight the fire boss. Turrets and pets seem to count towards taking damage.

nihavel.6592:

You dislike Crab Toss, but you enjoy AP system.
This prove DusK was right.

What made you conclude that I liked the AP system? Can you provide an example of where I said this?

DusK,

I’m sorry, but I’m not sure you’re fully understanding the position you’re taking here. You said,

“Something in the game was actually satisfying enough to make you log in and play the game for a while. ANet’s mission: Accomplished.”

You couldn’t be more wrong. This is exactly, to the tee, the faulty logic I am talking about. You’re concluding that someone performing an action means they actually enjoy that action.

Here is an example for you.

I play a lot of Crab Toss.

In fact, I play so much that I almost have all the AP’s complete. By your logic, I am a satisfied customer, and anyone looking at my log in stats could conclude I love me a game of Crab Toss. Right?

Wrong! I detest that game. I walk away from that game feeling cranky and frustrated almost every time. I get so bloody bored that the only way I can even get through the games is to put on a movie, or listen to music. So…why do I play so much then?

Because, despite my dislike for it, I want AP, XP, and achievement completion.

Does this make sense?

The problem here is that ANet has “trained” players to desire loot/Ap, so players will take advantage of any opportunity that offers them the best return for their time.

The event will never succeed as long as farming champs returns a better result (monthly champ slayer, champ boxes) than finishing the event. If they nerf the champs, then the motivation to do it at all becomes nil.

The only way this will be solved is if ANet:

A. Switches the focus from shinies to fun
B. Makes the end result more rewarding than the farming.

DusK.3849:

What you’re posting makes zero sense, Crazylegs. A player chooses to log in of his own accord. Nobody’s holding guns to players’ heads and forcing them to log in.

If a player clicks that log in button, it’s because, for whatever reason, he wants to play the game.

Yes, of course, but wanting to play, and enjoying the game are not the same thing. You’re proving my point here. You’re assuming that there are no other reasons that players would be logging in, other than because they enjoy playing.

I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that many players have logged into the game not because it is fun, but because of other pressures. I myself have logged in many times and grinded out some achievement because I felt a need to complete the meta achievements.

Simply put, just because a player logs in, doesn’t automatically mean they enjoy what they’re doing.

DusK.3849:

You’re attempting to discredit statistical information with extremely faulty analogies and personal experience. That kind of argument has a name.

No, I’m attempting to make sure that statistics are not misinterpreted by using possible faulty logic.

“Players are actively choosing to smash 100 piñatas, therefore they must enjoy these events.”

“Players are fighting Tequatl multiple times, they must enjoy the new mechanics.”

“Players are farming resources for legendaries, they must think this is a fun way to aquire new gear.”

DusK.3849:

People at large simply don’t play games if they don’t actually want to play them.

People will do a lot of things beyond reason, especially the more financially and emotionally invested they are. Simply assuming people will stop when it stops being enjoyable is a very narrow way of looking at things.

I never once said that people can’t enjoy the game. Many do.

What I do know is that despite what you, or ANet wants to believe, player concurrency does not necessarily equal satisfied players.

Your straw man argument doesn’t really help here. Let me try putting this to you another way.

Can you think of any time since you’ve started playing this game that you logged in, and completed content you didn’t really enjoy, but did so simply because you felt a desire to complete it? If so, you’ve proven my point.

Raziel.4216:

Jenny needs money to survive, this is not optional
Players dont need to play, it’s optional
False analogy.

I was wondering when the “optional” argument was going to come up. Here is the thing, we must assume that players want to play the game, just like we must assume that Jenny doesn’t want to be homekitten

th are optional, just one has bigger consequences.

That being said….I’m not sure what that has to do with my point. My point isn’t whether the game is or isn’t optional. The Jenny analogy was to point out that if all the variables aren’t taken into consideration, one can easily draw a false conclusion.

I’m just happy for a breather myself. I was actually able to get some stuff done in game, and out.

This is what I call, smoke and mirrors.

It’s the illusion of things, but it’s really just the same grocery list and recycles mechanics. But….we all log in because achievements.

On a side note…I’m getting so tired of seeing the same mobs over and over.

I can’t say for sure, but I feel this may be a server issue.

There are some servers out there that just don’t have an amazing community. I’m on Tarnished Coast and for the most part it is quite good. I believe this is due to the fact it was kinda branded as the unofficial role play server on day one.

So, my advice is to guest around a bit and test out some other severs. Have a list of test things you would like to say, and see what reaction you get when you ask them a few times in different areas.

As for the boss fights…well, that can be rough. Dead areas are very frustrating in any MMO. Again, I would suggest guesting to higher population servers and seeing if you have better luck.

And, finally….feel free to look me or my girlfriend (pixelpumpkin) up on TC, we love meeting new, and cool players that wanna do stuff.

I think ANet may be having an issue with what could be called a false positive.

So, look at it this way.

Jenny works 45 hours a week at a fast food restaurant. Now, you could conclude that because of this she must love her job.

Now, this may be true, but it could also be due to some other factor such as bills she must pay.

The Guild Wars 2 “Living Story” Could be much like this. ANet may be seeing an increase in players due to the “Living Story” but does that actually equate to satisfied players? To assume that because they’re playing a lot, they must be happy, does not factor in all the variables.

The question that I ask myself is, what happens if ANet is interpreting these results as positive, and using that as evidence to continue in that direction, yet player satisfaction may be more mixed.

The reason I bring this up, is because I personally feel the longer the LS progresses, the less I become satisfied with the game. I am already finding myself struggling to log in, and it was only due to a four day vacation that allows me to break the cycle of logging in daily.

I’m now quite nonchalant about what is coming next, what the achievements are, what weapons/Armour I can make, or what the story is. The only real reason I continue to log in is due to the friends I have made in game. This to is unfortunately not going so well as many of them are spending more and more time offline.

So, I wonder if ANet has a system beyond these forums for gauging player satisfaction? I personally think it is time for them to put out a yearly survey that really drills down to how players are feeling.

It would be a shame if they continued on this path, thinking all the logged in players are a great sign, only to find that that next update, or bug, or overpriced gem item, or change, tips the player base over the edge and it starts to erode.

After doing the dungeon a few times, I thought I would provide a bit of feedback.

1. Ooze Room

Not bad, but not awesome. The problem here is that without proper coordination it is nearly impossible. And the problem with coordination in dungeons is that it is like herding cats.

I think that with a few tweaks this could be a nice addition. For example, all players need to be able to use their abilities. AoE heavy players trying their best will still often harm the ooze. I understand the idea of them getting killed, but I would rather this be due to burning, or the elementals, instead of accidental AoE

2. Slick and Sparki

The mechanics here are pretty cool, and it’s not actually a bad fight. The problem is that the toxic fumes are super annoying. I understand that the idea is to lure the ooze to suck up the oil, but i often find myself with 3-5 stacks of fumes, and nowhere to go.

I can’t make the ooze follow me, I can’t condition remove the fumes, I can’t dodge them, nor heal them. I’m simply at the mercy of them as they quite quickly kill me.

What I think would have been a better mechanic is that the fumes do only a little damage, but the longer the oil is on the ground and/or burning, the more the room fills with smoke. The smoke would progressively blind players and make it harder to see, and avoid the ooze.

That way there is still a penalty for not clearing the slicks, but not in the predictable AoE damage way.

3. Hologenerators are annoying

I like the idea of blowing up the holograms by the generators to create damage, but I personally find the actual process of doing so rather unfulfilling. What I mean is that every time is have done these fights, I’m just wildly shooting into a mob, hoping the holos will explode.

I’m not actually really doing any sort of gameplay, but just relying on the fact mobs are generally pretty stupid and will just bunch up. I would rather see less mobs, but a more controlled experience. A few higher HP holos that need to be killed by the projectors would feel nicer than just zerging a group and hoping for the best.

4. Foreman

Not a bad fight. The only real issue I have is that from a realism perspective, its kinda stupid. I mean, a player runs in, kites 8 enemies and the Forman doesn’t even take notice?

This room was perfect for Arkham City, covert ops style gameplay. Sneaking around, picking off patrol mobs, possibly setting bombs on ships, smacking a pipe so it breaks and rolls down onto the mobs in the center would have been really fun.

This “kite and fight” mechanics kinda bores me personally.

5. Electric Boogaloo

The electric security room is by far the worst part of this dungeon. I remember the Molten Facility security room and how fun that felt. This, is nothing more than a super fast, super annoying floor that isn’t worth caring about.

Unless you’re going for the achievement, it just makes sense to gun it across the floor, die, and spawn on a platform.

The floor needs to slow down, and allow players to figure out what is going to happen. This insta-react mechanic is too punishing for players who are not super amazing wither the mouse/keyboard.

This same concept was done in Arkham city, but it was done much better. The floor had a “tell” which meant you had a few seconds to figure out what to do, or you took damage. You had time to learn the pattern, but it was still a challenge.

Slow the floor down, provide a “tell”.

6. Final Boss

The first part is yet another stupid floor electricity mechanic. It turns on way too fast to be avoided, and if you don’t get to the platform, or the “dead” floor…you’re done.

I personally hate these mechanics. You should always give the player some very obvious indication the floor is going to turn on, and give the time to react.

The boss himself is fine aside from a few bugs that others have pointed out. When all goes correctly, it’s pretty fun. The only real suggestion I have is making it a big more obvious what needs to be done. I honestly just melee him because I don’t really understand the mechanics.

7. End achievements

This is another one of those ANet guessing games. How is anyone supposed to know where the chests are without a guide (or playing it 20 times)? I would really like to see ANet spend some time scripting NPCs to lead “missions.”

Anyway, all n’ all it’s not a bad dungeon. It does feel really long though. I don’t think I’ll touch it much after the achievements simply due to the time commitment. Also, I have to add that I think it was in poor taste to make this a “Living Story” thing

You guys need to understand that it is completely unfair to allow everyone to participate in the story, only to cut them off at the end. We complained about this a few times already, and yet you continue to do it.

Don’t hide the story conclusion inside high level dungeons without providing options. It’s poor form.

Here is my challenge to ANet for the next “Living Story” release.

Design content that doesn’t rely on AoE. That’s right, no poison, fire, fumes, electric floors, etc.

Can you do it?

The reason I came up with this challenge is because I want to see if you can design challenging, and interesting content, without having to resort to draining players of life everywhere they step.

Don’t get me wrong, AoE is a cool addition to the game, but wit he recent Teq/boss update, and the new dungeon, it seems more and more your solution to “difficult” content is to just make everything a red floor circle.

So, do you accept this challenge?

Time Gating = Players logging in daily = Players getting bored/frustrated/annoyed/burnt out = Players logging in less = Game noticeably stalling = Shareholders become upset = More extreme measures are taken to retain players = Game become unplayable = Small set of core gamers remain = ANet pulls plug.

Time-gating is a short term solution that doesn’t have sustainability. Whenever you “force” players to play the game your way, it will serve only to drive them away.

Players want to log in because they like to, not because they feel they have to.

If ANet truly wants to retain their player base, and expand, they need to stop thinking with their bank accounts, and start thinking with their gamer hats. When they start releasing well done, well tested, and well written content, players will show up. When they start creating a reason beyond gear/achievement chasing, people will become emotionally attached to the game.

When they stop trying to sucker us all into buying gems, and just offer well done, well tested, and awesome things for sale, players will support the game.

RNG, Living World (bugs, release speed, shallowness, focus on achievements, etc), bugs, insta-kill mechanics, PvP neglect, grind, time-gating, focus on gear over fun, reliance on farming, etc….these will kill the game.

I made the Quaggans out of marzipan so they can be enjoyed by humans and Krait alike.

Happy Birthday, Pixelpumpkin!

Here are the facts.

- The Living World is more often than not released with bugs.

- These bugs often create situations in which progress is blocked, some gain advantages, while others are don’t, and/or content is inaccessible.

- Content is temporary.

Here is the evidence.

- Master of Baubles was bugged for most of the release.

- Crabtoss achievements broke and were never fixed

- Queens Gauntlet was buffed, making it harder for some

- (will continue to add these if needed)

Here is the solution.

I feel that if a Living World but is discovered that has created a situation in which players are unable to progress, or complete achievements, the following should happen.

1. The bug should be fixed at the earliest convenience

2. The release date for the next Living World update should be pushed back by one week.

The reason for this is because it is simply unfair to release buggy content, yet not adjust the time players have to deal with the change. Despite many players asking for the Living Wold to slow down, ANet has decided to push forward at the same pace.

A compromise should be that if ANet releases buggy contnet, there should be compensation for this. That compensation should be, in my opinion, in the form of additional time to experience the content.

This, “oops, sorry…guess you’ll miss this one.” is not an acceptable response to thier mistakes.

Destroyer Bravo.5391:

FYI you are supposed to waypoint to broonolu point, swim to that battery, and use the pad to return. If you sit there you screw the event over for everyone else!

Yes, I understand all this. This post isn’t a, “How do I beat the dragon?” walkthrough post, it is a criticism of the mechanics and how they’ve been implemented for all players.

I realize some level 75+ tanks out there can run around and not care all that much what they’re running through, but there are also other players who aren’t that, and have much different experiences.

Next time you fight, take a look at who is dead. Try to understand what might be the reasons (beyond them just sucking). Maybe, just maybe the mechanics (as we’ve seen elsewhere in this game) are simply not being implemented with enough consideration.

Ivonbeton.6814:

This event has two possible scenarios :

1) Sooo much fun with a coordinated group
2) Sooo frustrating in an overflow, with afkers or with no coordination

However, it’s not true that you can easily see if it’s a total bust in the first few minutes. I think some people give up way too easily thinking that it is. If you get to 75% with about 4minutes left, you can still make it.

Perhaps, but I think most players (especially in an overflow) see 20+ dead bodies, AFKers, Teq 2.0 with most of his HP still intact, a bone wall, dead turrets, and people WP to other boss fights, the timer ticking down, and think. “What am I really gaining here?”

Avatar Rage.4369:

Simply put, maybe this content is not for you. This is hard content and people have been asking for stuff like this for a while.

A world boss, in a level 60 zone is not for me? If that isn’t for everyone, then what is the point of playing GW2? Should I just stick to level 15 Skritt where I belong, and not get in the way of the big shots?

Mastruq.2463:

Judging from your post only, you seem to not fully understand the encounter mechanics yet.

That aside and even once you do, this content is probably not for you because it sounds like you prefer lone-wolfing, while this encounter is a team effort.

The problem with outlining concerns on this forum is that you often have to address the many, “You need to learn how to play” responses that are sure to follow. The problem with this overly dismissive and often fallacious argument is that most players who take the time to write out there criticisms, are often quite aware of what needs to be done.

I understand the concept here. I understand that big red circles, mean poison. Poison, equals death. To avoid death, avoid the poison.

The issue is, as I have stated above, I am relying on a lot of factors to go right (for 15 minutes) for me to stay alive long enough to participate in the battle. For example, when I am not dodging overlapping, super quick killing, often invisible AoE circles (That I am waiting for someone on a turret to clear), I am dodging “fingers”, mobs, waves, projectiles, Tequatl, etc.

I could probably handle most of these with my top level 80 armour, but the problem is that most of the things trying to kill me are scaled up so high, I often don’t have time to even react.

I go down, and I now must WP and run back to the fight, often finding myself dead again. The more times you die, the more your gear is damaged. The more it’s damaged the more it costs, or the more you die.

Needless to say, I get the mechanics. There is nothing inherently difficult in what is going on from a gameplay perspective. I just can’t stand mechanics that overly punish players to the point they’re not even playing.

As for the idea that it should be punishing. I wholeheartedly disagree. Chess can be a challenging game, but you don’t have to jam your hand with a hammer after every move. “Punishing” is simply an excuse to not create interesting or fair mechanics. The idea is that it “feels” hard because you’re aware of how often you’re dying.

Is it “hard” to dodge out of an AoE circle? Not particularly…. Is it hard to dodge out of an AoE circle twice, or more, while taking 25% – 75% damage in every one? Yes…it’s beyond ridiculous.

gaspara.4079:

But are you denying that there could be gamers like exploration and scavenger hunts? If you don’t enjoy it why do you bother even following the guide to do it because I’m sure you don’t honestly enjoy that either? My guess is the answer is so you can get the rewards, in which case its you forcing yourself to do something you don’t like because your chasing the carrot or at the very least you choosing to do something you don;t like because you really want the reward. This has nothing to do with how fun the content itself is because your not really doing it but still feel entitled to complain about it.

I would love to do more puzzles, scavenger hunts, exploration, mysteries, and quests. The problem is when ANet neglects to write the first 300 pages of the novel, then expects us to actually get excited to read the thing.

When I logged in yesterday, I read the email and headed over to find Rox. After talking to her, I was at a loss as to what exactly to do. Was I supposed to just randomly walk in a direction and hope I happen across something?

I then opened the achievement panel, because as we’ve all learned by now, that is the most reliable way to figure out what to do. It’s our grocery list. So, I realized that I needed to find ten of something on those maps.

My girlfriend was already on Dulfy, so she told me to come where she was. We had a bit of an argument because I wanted to figure out what the story was. I wanted to know what I was doing, and why. She kept telling me that there is no story….she looked online and Rox doesn’t do anything.

So, eventually I followed her around using Dulfy because…well, why not? I’m not about to try and trick myself into thinking this is fun by running around aimlessly. Does finding a random dragon scale in the snow, for an achievement point, excite me and make me want to experience more? No….At that point it’s just achievement points that help me get closer to gear and gold.

You see, I WANT to play this game. I want to get excited. Achievements are not my goal. My goal is to be entertained. If all I am presented with in the game are list after list of pointless tasks, why would I bother?

Vol.5241:

But that’s really what it boils down to. MMO players (especially GW2) players have a severe case of entitlement that they want everything easy, quick and now for free.
It’s the same thing with people complaining about legendaries being expensive, SAB trib/Liadri/Teq too difficult. Fact is there is content in this game designed in a way that you have to work for it. It’s no different with dailies or time-gated content.

Again, all it boils down to is if you don’t want to dedicate time for it, you don’t deserve it.

No, this is your conclusion, but not fact.

I don’t want things quick, easy, and free. I want things to be exciting, challenging, and rewarding.

They complain about legendaries being expensive, because the only way to obtain one is not though playing, progressing, and defeating challenging content, it is by grinding out farming nodes, running the same content multiple times, and purchasing your way to the top.

I have no problem working for something. What I don’t like is being manipulated into it. Do I care if content is super challenging? Of course not. Do I care that I have to spend large quantities of gold, time, and patience because I only have 2 weeks (10 hours) to complete the content? YES!

I have 100% map completion, 100% JP completion, and a bunch of other achievements. I did them over the course of a year and enjoyed pretty much all of it because I did it on MY time. I also have 99% of the “Living Story” achievements and have pretty much hated 70% of it….because it’s been on ANets time.

Hawkian.6580:

The idea of being “forced to play” eludes me entirely.-snip-

Of course it is my own desire. We’re not talking about that. We are talking about the game being designed in a way that requires me to log in every day, or face consequences. If I don’t log in and slump through achievements, I miss out on potentially important rewards.

For example, what about those who decided summer was a nice time for a vacation and couldn’t take part in the “Living Story” where the reward was the crystal node in your home instance? They also missed out on achievement points, which result in gold, gear, and other forms of currency.

This is what I mean by forced. I’m forced to play on ANets schedule, not mine. I’m required to show up for the game like a job, because if I want to continue to progress and stay relevant in the game, I need to keep grinding those achievements. This is what ANet wants, because they think if I’m in game everyday, I’ll buy gems.

Hawkian.6580:

Achievements have no impact on me; they can be safely ignored. -snip-

Achievements give you points. Points result in gold and gear. They also result in rewards (Crystal Node, Back items, Minis, Weapons, Access to content (Gauntlet)). You might be able to safely ignore them, but for those of us who want to experience the game AND get the gear, we have to play by ANets rules. And ANEt says, if you want these things, you’ll log in each day…..and you’ll do what we tell you to do.

Hawkian.6580:

I hate to boil it down this much but in general if you find yourself “getting so tired of this” you should pretty clearly just stop playing. -snip-

Fair enough. If you think that is best for the game to have frustrated players leaving. Seems counter productive to me though.

Ah…well thought out criticism, I can work with this!

Hawkian.6580:

Overflows are a feature that helps avoid the typical pitfalls of maxed population on maps in a popular game (read: queues), -snip-

While I understand the need for overflows, I don’t think they’re making the game more enjoyable. As I stated before, the problem with them is that players often find themselves in a sort of “limbo” where they’re not necessarily with the community they’re normally playing with, nor are the same events taking place.

Here is an example. The other day I was sitting around in LA, doing what I do, and someone in map chat mentioned that some players were taking on the Karka Queen soon and needed some help.

Excited, because…well the Karka Queen has been living a life of bliss since we all moved out of Southsun, so I opened the map and clicked the WP.

I ended up in some random overflow with no one around, and in the middle of a mob of Karkas. The Queen was nowhere to be found and so I WPed back to LA. A few moments later, everyone who had been there showed up and was talking about how it was cool to fight her again, and all the loot they had scored.

I was not able to be a part of my community or the event because of the overflow. It would have been worse if I couldn’t join my friends (as it happened during the Watchwork invasions).

Overflows are good, but they need to be looked at so players are still able to remain within their known community. If not, then there is no point in having servers at all, and ANet should honestly just make everyone in permanent overflow.

Hawkian.6580:

Disconnects are not intended -snip-

Car crashes are also not intended, but we can expect them to happen. No one wants to be disconnected, but this is the internet, and these things happen. Universal problem or not, no player should be penalized for something that is beyond their control.

ANet should implement a 2-5 min grace period for all players in the event of a disconnect. There is simply no reason not to.

Hawkian.6580:

There are very few actual insta-kill mechanics in the game. If you mean insta-down, then sure- depending on your class, HP, gear spec, etc, this can happen to you frequently… but it’s best viewed as an opportunity to improve. -snip-

The problem here is that you assume players care enough to improve. I tried the Queens Gauntlet and I have never raged so much in my life at the mechanics of it. I barely cared to continue, but those pesky achievements kept looming.

I’m not saying content shouldn’t be challenging, but I know from a lot of gaming experience there is a difference between something being challenging because it takes thought, skill, and timing, and challenging because it’s full of cheap mechanics.

Players don’t like to be downed, bashed around, knocked back, insta-killed, and constantly frozen. These mechanics make the player feel like they’re just rag dolls being tossed around at the mercy of the game.

Hawkian.6580:

Dulfy is an external resource. If you believe that you need to use it to complete tasks (hint: you don’t), then use it. -snip-

As I’ve said before many times on this forum, I have no issues with playing the game. What I’m not interested in doing is spending the little time I have randomly wandering the world hoping that I’ll randomly come across something I need…if I even know what I need.

This needs to be said time and time and time again. Hard content is fine, vague content is fine, grind is fine….as long as it is not available for a limited time. If you give me 3 months to track down dragon scales….fine….I’ll come across all of them eventually, but if you’re going to give me time sensitive content, then you need to give me some direction.

Why couldn’t Rox have said, “Maybe head over to….and look for dragon parts…..maybe try talking to some locals to see if they have seen anything.”

Oh…ok cool, I have some idea where I’m going and what I’m looking for.

Vol.5241:

Doesn’t matter if it’s time-gated. If you don’t want to (or can’t) log-in every day to do your dailies, then too bad! You dont’ deserve it! The achievement is there for people dedicated to the game. There is no reason why someone who refuses to do daily achievements should be rewarded those who do them.

I understand you want to have an achievement system that is not time-gated, but these time-gated achievements reward those who are dedicated enough to play the game day in day out. If you can’t do that then readjust your expectations or maybe stick to fixed achievements.

Sorry, Vol, but your logic is failing.

You don’t get awesome points because you have a life that allows you to log in every day. You don’t get a special badge that entitles you to free refills at Starbucks because you can afford the time to play every day.

It’s not about dedication and it never was. Time-gated content and achievements is not about separating the dedicated L33T from those pesky casuals. Your insistent need to counter everyones argument with nothing but, “If you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen” arguments are really not constructive, or even all that well thought out.

Please, try to contribute to this conversation with a little more understanding and consideration.

Vol.5241:

1.) Tough luck.

Nothing you’ve said is of any value, so I can’t even really respond to you. Sorry.

Coffee.7058:

I am sure it does a great service to most but it also holds your hand. The things you eventually find in the game extend your enjoyment and reward when you do figure them out.

I hid $1000 in your home town. You have one day to find it. Go!

A few people seem to disagree with a few points I’ve made, so I would like to expand a tad.

1. Overflow

To clarify, I have nothing against other players on other servers. I don’t have any issues battling along side others that aren’t on the same server as mine, I mean we’re all trying to basically do the same goal.

The problem I have with being booted to an overflow is that I quickly lose my sense of community. It feels like I’m in some sort of limbo that while is still Guild Wars 2, isn’t really MY Guild Wars 2.

What I mean is, if there is an epic battle, or something really cool that happens on my home server, and I was stuck in overflow, not only do I miss the event, but I miss the sense of community that comes with it.

For example, I heard Black Gate was one of the first servers to beat Tequatl. I can only imagine how cool that would have been to have that be the “talk of the town” in Lions Arch afterwards. For all of those on Black Gate who were bumped to an overflow, they will forever miss that sense of community, even though they are a part of that community.

It’s like going to opening night at a movie in your own town, finding out the show is sold out, and then find yourself driving 30 min to the next town over. Sure, you got to see the same movie as your peers, but missed out on all the additional social aspects.

I think a few have misinterpreted what I have said here. I’m not for a moment suggesting that there shouldn’t be overflows. I’m actually saying that if overflows need to happen, then they should first be prioritized by server. So, if you’re on Black Gate (or whatever), and there are too many people fighting a world boss, the overflow should grab players from the same server and fill up an overflow.

This should happen until there aren’t enough players to fill spots, in which case they can choose whether they want to be paired up with other random people.

This would mean that even if you were bumped to overflow, you would at least be with the people on your server. The same people you see running around in the game all other times, the same ones on your friends list, the same ones you’ve helped in that hard Jumping Puzzle.

3. Insta-kills

I like mechanics in games that make me think and respond. It is obviously much more interesting than standing there button mashing with one finger while eating a bowl of Frosted Flakes.

The problem is when the mechanics result in players spending more time dead, than learning. Dying in GW2 means that you have two three options.

1. You lay there until someone revives you.
2. You WP and run back to try again
3. You use a revive orb

All of these options are time spent not playing, and not learning.

If I show up to a boss fight and am hit with some unknown force (AoE, projectiles, etc), and find myself dead, by the time I make it back to the fight, it may be over. If I am getting downed constantly, but getting revived, I often find myself simply running around trying to figure out what is going on, only to be downed again (less energy each time).

This is not entertaining, nor educational.