Guild Wars 2

NeXeD.3042:

Crinn.7864:

PvP balance is fine as long as you don’t play a necro.

Necro really isn’t as bad as everyone is making it seem. I have a feeling its going to have a place this season once the builds settle down.

Trying to solo queue on one is still cancer though. It’s not so much a viability issue as it is a “this really sucks to play as”

Euthymias.7984:

The vine doesn’t instantly spawn as I have seen some who would stun-break PBS (mostly mid range) before it could appear to grab them, or walk out of the spot/gap close if they were further away.

They are breaking before the trait is proc’ed. The immob still goes off the moment the trait is activated, same as Entangle.

In any case its the only Grand Master trait that actually has a good use outside of CA and has some benefit to Core Ranger so I cant readily agree to it getting nerfed into garbage when its just above average as is. If it changes from pulsing, it’ll need to be a reliable instant bind at least.

You do realize that Ancient Seeds is a druid trait not a core one right?

Also it’s significantly stronger than the majority of grandmaster traits in the game, and I would argue that it’s the single strongest offensive proc in the game.

[quote=6510347;Euthymias.7984:]

Fluffball.8307:

Poelala.2830:

To suggest balance on the skill of a certain player is a null argument. Balance should be made for skill caps, not the lowest common denominator.

The balance skill cap is that you simply walk forward. I’m not sure what you’re even arguing. The lowest common demonstrator is someone who can’t find their W key…

The immob as far as I can tell is instant application. You need resistance to walk out.

PvP balance is fine as long as you don’t play a necro.

Okami.7049:

There are 9 classes total, don’t most Guilds typically have more than 9 players? It’s also not a big deal to ask in chat for a specific class. Doing nothing is also shoving the issue under the rug and hoping nobody notices, which is arguably worse. This solution at least allows diversity and eliminates the segregatory problem. What is everyone going to do if/when Warriors get nerfed into the ground for being ‘top’ pick? Besides whine and complain of course.

Whats the point of diversity? To be inclusive yes?
But if you’ve created a rule that says all comps must use a fixed class then guilds must start excluding existing players simply because they already have that class slot.

Raid guilds build their comps around the players they have. For instance my guild doesn’t have any engis or thieves so we don’t use such comps even though condi engi would be good in w4. However with your rule we would have to drop two of a our existing players in order to bring in other people all to fulfill a arbitrary rule.

It’s sounding more and more like people are too lazy to accept change instead of actually wanting to better the game, not just with this but with everything in general lately. It’s either ‘my way’ or ‘no way’, which is pretty sad.

People want to being able to build teams based on merit, not arbitrary rules. Raid comps are done the way they done because it’s the best way for both the guild.

What would you recommend then, instead of Lahmia’s suggestion?

That underperforming classes be buffed to where they can stand on their own merit,

Lahmia’s suggestion is literally GW2 version of affirmative action.

Okami.7049:

Honestly, I might not lol I personally wouldn’t want to get dragged into the drama. I bet those against it are the ones who just speaking out for selfish reasons instead of caring about the game as a whole. Either way, your idea is a good one in my book and you have my support.

So basically you are making zero effort to understand the opposition and are just throwing around straw mans.

If you are going to engage in a argument you should bother to understand the opposing side lest you being arguing from ignorance which is what you are doing now.

Okami.7049:

Oh I agree, we should be accepted regardless of our class. Lahmia suggested a great way to ‘force’ all classes to be accepted in Raids without really changing anything.

That’s not a solution. That’s a “lets shove the issue under the rug and nope nobody notices”

It also screws over guilds big time because a lot of guilds do not have raid ready players for every class. You end up with a lot of “We can’t raid today because our Xclass player isn’t online”

Methuselah.4376:

People keep making comparisons to top DPS classes and say how necro is useless cause it doesn’t offer so much damage nor so much party support. Well I am sorry then, don’t play necro. That is NOT what necro is about. Necro is about self sustaining and weakening the target, dealing good damage (just because it doesn’t 1 shot everything doesn’t mean that the damage is then by definition bad) and staying alive to deal that damage continuously. It is true that the profession’s strengths tend to be undermined in PvP and raids…but Guild Wars 2 is not just about PvP, not just about freaking raids. Would I like the profession to be OP? Yes, I would. Am I unhappy with necro being as it is? Not even close as I enjoy it tremendously.

The problem with necro is that it’s strengths are all in things that are irrelevant. PvE places no value on large EHP because the amount of EHP required to survive is marginal.
Moreover we are low mobility and low DPS which makes us one of the most arduous classes to play in Open World.

Necro is a fun class to play up until you play something else and realize how much better literally every other class is in every type of content.

We are not good in PvP.
We are not good in WvW roaming
We are not good in Raids
We are good in backline WvW zergs.
We are the least time efficient class in Open World.

I’m sick and tired of every other class being able to do more with their AAs than my necro can do with the entire skill bar.

Shaogin.2679:

Crinn.7864:

Shaogin.2679:

LinhZeri.6412:

Also to add to that Necro vs Druid situations.. why exactly is a necro not good vs a Druid? Oh wait let me see oh Ancient Seed.. guess what I just had a rant about being completely over tuned trait?. That is right… Oh yeah say all the condi cleanse you want… that’s fancy talk for perfect situations . If you use the cooldowns on your transfers you become a sitting duck as even the targeting on those roots are garbage. I play all classes mind you so I know what I’m talk about.

You don’t sound like you know what you are talking about actually. Druids beating Reapers has very little to do with Ancient Seeds. It is due to the fact that Reapers are very easy to kite and Druids can take them out from range.

Yeah but Ancient Seeds prevents the necro from dodging which is literally our only damage avoidance. Getting hit with Ancient seeds in a team fight is almost always a death sentence.

Immobilize on a class with so many options for condi clear/transfer is hardly a death sentence. In a 1v1 against a power druid, that is the precise skill to save your condi transfer for. Not to mention, you can still destroy projectiles while rooted with reaper shroud 2.

Do you know what happens when you clear a pulsing immob? You’re still immobed because oh right it’s pulsing.

The entire reason AS is soo stupid strong is the fact that it pulses. If it wasn’t pulsing it would be no different than any other immob trait.

Shaogin.2679:

LinhZeri.6412:

Also to add to that Necro vs Druid situations.. why exactly is a necro not good vs a Druid? Oh wait let me see oh Ancient Seed.. guess what I just had a rant about being completely over tuned trait?. That is right… Oh yeah say all the condi cleanse you want… that’s fancy talk for perfect situations . If you use the cooldowns on your transfers you become a sitting duck as even the targeting on those roots are garbage. I play all classes mind you so I know what I’m talk about.

You don’t sound like you know what you are talking about actually. Druids beating Reapers has very little to do with Ancient Seeds. It is due to the fact that Reapers are very easy to kite and Druids can take them out from range.

Yeah but Ancient Seeds prevents the necro from dodging which is literally our only damage avoidance. Getting hit with Ancient seeds in a team fight is almost always a death sentence.

The fact that composition plays such a huge part is why people don’t want it. Players want agency in their comp because nobody wants to get comp screwed. Players are always kittened when you take away agency.

The fact of the matter is that “Yes” is not going to magically result in balanced comps. In order for the MM to actually create balanced comps you’d need a matchmaker capable of dynamically determining the purpose of build and it’s potential synergy with other builds. That would require delving into machine-learning which is well beyond what a game studio can realistically achieve.

Because clutch rallies bring some much needed excitement? Also turnarounds make the game more engaging because they mean you can’t slack off.

WvW has the limit to stop half the zerg from rallying off one guy.

Cynz.9437:

You know, he said “… all the PvE players are in bronze where their skill level is.” But here is fun fact, Sindrener (top player on LBs, pro league player etc., one of the best thieves in game) actually raids and runs fractals frequently. Where does it fit the statement made by Cinn? Hence why i am asking, what is definition of “PVE’er”.

He doesn’t fit any definition which is why the entire concept of the evil-PvE’ers-out-to-ruin-pvp is myopic.

Kreweless.2196:

The desire, or at least interest, in winning.

If there is one thing PvE’ers understand, it’s time efficiency. The pip gains for winning are substantially better than the pip gains for losing. Anyone that can do basic math knows that the time requirement to get ascended if all you do is lose is huge, and by huge I mean just shy of a thousand matches in order to get a full set.

The current incentive system does not provide any motivation for losing. This whole “cearbears” crap is nothing but a imaginary scapegoat that salty players came up to explain why they are losing.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Crinn.7864:

… all the PvE players are in bronze where their skill level is.

Of course the entire concept of a “PvE’er” is kinda stupid, they are no worse than any regular bad pvp’er. Of course most people just call all bad players “PvE’ers” regardless of whether said person actually does PvE.

well it is kinda true to some extent though.
at least for the few people that i know of.

for example, some people, in my friend list, i know they seldom pvp, but participated in the last season anyway, i look at their wins loses rating etc and well the numbers are not very good.

I couldn’t care less about how much or how little PvP they do as long as their rating is where it belongs.

You can’t stop bad players from queuing and there no difference between a PvE’er and some random new guy with delusions of grandeur.

Justine.6351:

um that is exactly what shroud does, -50% damage taken, infact its better than protection, it just doesn’t last forever. And necro do infact have access to protection aswell.

We have extremely limited access to protection in very short durations. And yes we do have some other sources of of scaling mitigation. But as literally the entirety of the PvP meta shows that mitigation is so far behind the curve.

50% mitigation on shroud is pathetic once you realize that our combined LF gain + healing is still less that a quarter of what a typical meta class does in DPS. (I’m also not entirely sure the 50% mitigation actually works given the fact that I’ve see 10k hits on shrouded necros with some consistency in sPvP)

The DPS in the meta is way beyond what our class can handle. I was in a match with Nos the day the patch dropped and watched him get deleted.

… all the PvE players are in bronze where their skill level is.

Of course the entire concept of a “PvE’er” is kinda stupid, they are no worse than any regular bad pvp’er. Of course most people just call all bad players “PvE’ers” regardless of whether said person actually does PvE.

Ario.8964:

I’d be okay with it if I got an auto basi every 10 sec on my thief.

Can my necro get auto CttB too?

Mitch.4781:

Plus the damage was NOT that strong to compensate for the fact glass cannon eles can be easily one shot. An Ascended zerk set has around 11.5k hp. There was no vitality compensation to make up for the decrease in damage ability.

Irrelevant, all defensive weaknesses can be handled by simply understanding mobs.

If the reward is high enough, players will learn it, and then stack it to oblivion. Ele was nerfed because there was literally no point to playing anything else as far as DDs are concerned.

Hence why necros are one of the lower dps classes as they have much more survivability and a huge hp pool.

Which is also why Necros are never used for any remotely serious content. High buffer health has no value when you can get by on 10k hp.

You only need as much defensives as the bare minimum to survive. Since the bare minimum in this game is 2 dodges there is no reason not to use eles.

notebene.3190:

This isn’t a complaint, I don’t know enough about much of anything when it comes to combat numbers and min/max-ing and things like that. I’m sure my build is pretty lame, but I get by. I do ‘notice’ how Meteor Shower has changed, but for the content I’ve been doing, and my build, I don’t think it’s going to have a huge impact on me.

What I’m trying to figure out, and not seeing in the patch notes (it didn’t jump out at me) that anything changed with Barrage for Rangers, what the difference between the two are that Meteor Shower would get the 0.5 seconds, but not the other skill? They kinda seem the same to me, just from a damage perspective?

Literally just damage. Barrage’s damage is so low that it’s only really worth using against lot of targets. (like a AoE should) but Metoer shower did so much damage that that you used it regardless of circumstance. Moreover on large hitboxes the skill would hit the target mutlitple times per tick which increased it’s damage even more. Meteor shower turns eles into a DPS god that no other class could compete with.

Justine.6351:

Not really sure how realistic a change like this would be.

A controllable regenerating damage shield that reduces damage by 50%, gives access to another skill bar while allowing continued recharge of all skills on the primary bar.

The change does not make shroud any stronger than it is. Nor am I proposing that our LF be buffed to where we can indefinitely sustain ourselves against a spike.

Moreover I’m just proposing changing the mechanic so that we have equivalent sustain to everyone else.

Protection will always mitate 30% of incoming damage. If you get hit for 10k it mitigates 3k, if you get hit for 1k it mitigates for 300. That is what I mean by “scaling”

Cynz.9437:

Actually zerker thief would be at risk constantly simply because he has no way to tell which passives are up on target. One passive can mess you up so badly on zerker thief, you will probably end up at spawn.

I’m sorry I can’t think of any passive that is going to kill you. Maybe if your one of those thieves that just AAs into EP while the warrior wails on their face.

All zerk thief means is that you have to be on the ball with evades, rotations, and positioning.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

If you play pvp exclusively, what is your need for ascended armour, which is mostly useful for fractals?

If all I do is PvP, what need do I have for crafting?

Yet I have to do crafting in order to get my PvP rewards.

R O C.6574:

When I think high risk, I think Berserker Thief

No zerk thief has a extremely low margin of error. Margin of error is not related to how risky it is.
The margin of error for performing a major surgery is very low, but a surgery done by a experienced surgeon has very little risk.

High risk would be something like going for niflhel beast when the other team’s thief’s whereabouts are unknown.

Aenaos.8160:

How’s that any different than before the patch?
Damage overshadows all other aspects of combat to the point they are almost invisible,but it’s been this way for sometime now.

Before the patch we had actual teamfights. Now it’s just dead bodies everywhere.

Seriously, my necro was killed in a match earlier before the falling-to-downstate animation even completed.

In PvE necromancers are gods of selfishness capable of soloing all sorts of content that other classes struggle with. Even high level fractals can be cheesed with quintuple necro comps.

In PvP necromancers are completely dependent on team support and have the worst self-sustain of any class.

Why is there such a dichotomy between PvP and PvE? Because Necromancer defense is built around LF gain and LF gain does not scale with damage taken and there is a massive deference in damage taken between the modes.

To make a example: In raids which are the highest difficulty of PvE, a druid will only need 6k HPS tops to keep the entire group up, and that’s a worse case scenario where everything is going wrong and the group is taking all sorts of avoidable damage. However the DDs of that raid group will be doing 30k DPS each. Players deal over ten times the damage of even high end PvE mobs.

Necromancer LF gain is fixed, it doesn’t change based on scenario. In PvE our LF out scales the mobs easily and we are gods, in PvP it’s horribly under scaled and we cannot keep ourselves alive.

Our LF needs to be scalar based on incoming damage. We should have LF sources that work relative to the incoming damage. This would normalize our defenses so that we aren’t gods in PvE, and aren’t chattel in PvP. Such a change would be good for necros regardless of PvE or PvP. PvE would be helped because with necros not being PvE gods anymore we could then get real DPS buffs. PvP necros would be helped by not being fodder.

Okami.7049:

Necromancers are about self-survivability and is usually the best class for soloers.

Necromancers have the worst survivability of any class including revs in WvW and sPvP, and are 100% dependant on team support.

Necromancer in pvp is the exact opposite of what how it functions in PvE. Largely because of how much more damage players do compared to mobs.

FrownyClown.8402:

Only reason druid is used in dps builds

Support traitlines shouldn’t be used in dps builds, but when you’ve got a trait that godly……

What makes me salty is that they didn’t give the buff to sPvP which is a gamemode that condi necro could really use the help in.

Like seriously condi necro already got replaced by power necro in the last season, yet condi necro gets nothing while power necro gets huge buffs.

Astralporing.1957:

and people screaming on forums that power damage is OP because it can down in seconds someone that didn’t spec against it.

No they wouldn’t because power attack are unique per class. So they’d be complaining about whatever skill happened to be the largest crit in their combat tab rather than making gross generalizations like they with condis.

Fluffball.8307:

Break stun quickly and you can walk out without even clearing the immob. The seeds take a while to grow. Or if the ranger is a bit slow on the attack you may not even need to break stun, just get up and walk away while the seeds grow onto nothing.

If I stunbreak it before they can proc AS, then AS is still off cooldown and Druid has far more dazes and knockdowns than I could possibly have in stunbreaks. And of course once e gets the inevitable AS proc, he can just LB2 me into oblivion.

Should be a single immob, not a pulsing immob that also applies cover conditions.

You misspelled Druid in the OP

AncientYs.8613:

can someone tell me whats a “continuum rift” and why there are so many of them? is it an item or a skill? what tf is going on in those pictures?!

It’s a thing that is spawned when a Mesmer uses Csplit. However right now it’s bugged to where the yellow label text does not disappear when Crift despawns.

It’s a bug with one of the Mesmer’s skills.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Continuum_Split

Anet is definitely aware

Cynz.9437:

Have you fought warriors yet xD?

Nightfall and then well of corruption when NF ends. What are warriors?

I could have done without the condi buff. The skullgrinder spam is real.

Seems defense has gone out the window. Since the patch teamfights seem to be over in seconds. Power necro basically hardcounters itself with it’s own burst. LB ranger hit me for 90% of my Demolisher Necro’s HP on his 4>2 opener, but I still managed to kill him ~10 seconds later. I mean shoot I was in a match with Nos and he went down in the first ~20seconds.

I’m seeing fights where both teams will have 2-3 dead at the same time. This isn’t PvP this is flipping murder.

leman.7682:

I have to agree with the PvP sentiment that others expressed – tested the GS/Shroud on golems and it feels like there are some okay skills in there (GS3 and GS4 stand out, minus the wonky animation on #3), but honestly most of it is still too situational to make it worth taking.
Not to mention that you can’t really skip staff or warhorn so that’s not enough. Other than that there’s really nothing much.

Nightfall is disgustingly good now though for handling nodes. Also Soul Spiral with Onslaught and DPerceptions is basically 100blades but better.

The new League tab is amazing

Pecar.1236:

RS 6+5+3 and you have 36-39 stack of bleed on target

For how many seconds?

Supreme.3164:

Crinn.7864:

Supreme.3164:

Between reapers, druids, chronomancers etc etc, you get filled up with condis within a second, playing d/d ele in this times and ages..it’s suicide

Condi necro is dead idk what your going on about.

I think you have huge problems of l2p if you can’t do anything on reaper..like are you kidding?
The class has been used by every single esl team- 2/4 of wvw zergs ar made up of reapers…

You complain a lot about necros…but the problem it’s just you

There haven’t ESL tourneys in half a year. We are in a different meta now. Power Necro was already more popular than Condi Necro before today’s patch and with the changes Condi Necro cannot keep up.

Rickster.8752:

Then they should be done in small changes but frequently. Instead we get tiny tiny changes every 3 months. Nothing changes. No new builds. Condi necro has run the same traits, same weapon sets and same skills since HOT released. This is crazy. It is the same for other classes.

necro is actually a terrible example. We went Signet Chillomancer > Corruptionmancer > Blood Magic Signet Corruption > Procmancer > Power Boonstrip, and I’m expecting another change shortly. (for power anyway, cNecro is probably dead now)

Warrior is probably the most static in terms of build, but it’s gameplay is solid.
The class balance in this game is largely close most of the “balance” complaints are either plebs or people bemoaning that their one super favorite special build isn’t meta.

Burtnik.5218:

Soltar.9643:

So i assume youre a software programmer urself then? im also fast when it comes to thinking about what to change but im just too uninformed to blame them for that long timeperiod when i dont even know how long it takes to implement such changes.

You mean this (pic)? Yeah so hard to do m8.

Somehow I think MMORPG balance is a little bit more complicated than FPS games.

Gwaihir.1745:

Well values such as cd timers should be stored in such a way so that a single value can be edited per game mode and all algorithms using that value will now use the new constant. That doesn’t take much time.

This.

Balance patches are done slowly not because of manhours, but because they need to do proper data collection. It typically takes at least two months for the meta to shift out and often longer. S5 was a good example because it caused a bunch of meta shifts independent of any class changes.

This isn’t a MOBA where you can just whack random things with a sledgehammer every 2 weeks and call it balance.

Pregnantman.8259:

Its actually for the best. If you remember the first iteration of Dhuumfire, you know what I mean.

You do realize condi necro was already offensively underpowered before the patch right? We have the longest ramp time in PvP with the lowest burst once ramped.

Our soul purpose was to kill support eles, and engis, but now Ele and to a lesser extent engi has better cleansing in this patch in addition to other misc buffs.

But hey we should obviously been left in the dirt just because of a two week balance screwup that was literally years ago.

Condi Necro is dead, and unfortunately being a Lich isn’t viable either.

steelheart.7386:

This was one of the worst patches ever with zero real nerfs to anything and a bunch of nonsense buffs. I mean really. They must have a tiny staff working on this game. 10% nerf to warrior healing and 16% nerf to the heal trap for Guardians. WTF is wrong with these people?

To be fair, the balance discrepancies where not that big and where only really a issue at low MMR. Stuff is a lot more balanced out at the higher levels. Larger changes would have just cut those classes out of the meta completely.

Supreme.3164:

Between reapers, druids, chronomancers etc etc, you get filled up with condis within a second, playing d/d ele in this times and ages..it’s suicide

Condi necro is dead idk what your going on about.

Meanwhile Condi Necro just got eradicated from existence…..