Guild Wars 2

babazhook.6805:

I actually wanted to see how well a condi build would work with d/d as i tend to scoff at those that suggest a given build MUST be power or condition. I do have a few thieves so like to play around.

It suprisingly effective and I was 1v4ing people , dropping them and not using stealth.

Now whether one plays power or condition , I think one of the keys is getting that vitality up. It not just the one shots of power that will get you with too low a health pool , it those new condition stacks that can tick so high and take you down before you have time to react. As such in SOME ways the change to SE helps here as you can not afford to cleanse a weakness or a cripple on stealth over a tick of burning thats hitting you at 3k per tick hoping that gets cleansed at the 4 second mark.

i agree with that, so many thieves still go full zerk and maybe oneshot something if they are lucky and the enemy doesnt random dodge, blind, stun, cc, blink etc

I’ve pushed my health over 20k and still manage to oneshot or burst ppl down very fast
there is no need for zerk, not with the thief

and the patch made dd even weaker, meaning more thieves tend to dp
sadly

I still play dd post patch as well and came up with a high damage high sustain build, I’m not really having any problems, the only thing i miss is CiS
because with my new build i run 2,85k power, with 21,5k health and 250% crit dmg
but i still prefer the old system, yes we had less dmg, but honestly, who needed more dmg on their thieves? xD
even tho i have more power and crit damage now i still feel weaker than pre patch ^^

no that’s how i kill mesmers, i go stealth on their clones, but doing that on a condi mesmer will kill you if you take to long to kill him/trying to find him in stealth ^^

Vaide.6290:

DHawk.2687:

Vaide don’t stop playing DD, because if we all stop, more ppl will cry about DP bing op —> next nerf incoming, take cover.
besides, we play dd because we love the playstyle, don’t let anet take it from you. keep playing it, improve on it, just think, if you can win outnumbered fights with a nerfed dd thief, what will happen if it’ll ever get buffed again. don’t give up on DD

Thanks for the encouragement, I am definitely not giving up yet. D/D is by far the most rewarding and fun to play. I just hope they fix/buff the issue’s (SE for example).

Now that’s what i love to hear
let me know if you found something that made your build more viable, be happy to know that there’s another DD (semi) enjoying his class ^^

babazhook.6805:

Keep in mind the trait that blinds on stealth becomes all but useless and would need a redo.

you mean the trait that is now a gm (which it shouldn’t even be Anet!), the one noone uses since there is no sense in using it over SR, sadly.
i loved that trait, i needed it for DD, but well, SR is more important, so i have to go without it
and if you use CnD blind as argument, pistol #5 would also make CiS useless..

coso.9173:

I would but you said yourself you didn’t want to give much info on it…

because i want players to sit down and think and test things out, you will NEVER be as good as the one you copied the build from, take some time, look at what you got, and look at runes you would never expect usefull, you’ll be surprised what you’ll come up with, don’t just say, well he won’t give me his build, need to look for a new one.
If one fails, it fails, try another one, it took me 2 weeks to perfect mine, and I’m going ham with it, because i know it’s streanghts and weaknesses, since I’m the one who made it.
Give it a try

don’t play thief as glass build, there is no sense in it, I don’t play glass on my dd and win every fight against glass thieves, no matter what weaponset they use, and no I’m not condi
I’m still powerbased

sorry but i won’t let anyone convince me stop playing dd because dp is better, i know it is,
that’s one reason why i don’t play it, plus i can still kill DP thieves easy even tho they are my counter and PU mesmers also, but that’s not the point, the point is that the thief is being replaced with the mesmer, furthermore every other class had better buffs to their traits than the thief had, e.g. ranger marksmanship compared to thiefs new SE, the fact that CiS is a gm and that every class can go invuln except for the thief. I’m not saying tief needs invuln, I’m just saying thief has been left out badly and needs some tweeking

it works the same way but a PU condi mesmer will kill you without being revealed once, well until your dead. and yes we can trait into stealth, we get 1 second, mesmer gets the double amount. that would be fine if they wouldn’t be able to outstealth a thief, especially DD thieves

coso.9173:

D/D is fun to play but indeed doesn’t do much damage.
I’m just getting some better lv 80 equipment but I usually get killed pretty fast.
I still enjoy D/D the most though, I wish we cold get a way to make it more viable.

read my post above and rethink your build, i made mine very viable, so can you

true that
-i will write something here now because i need to use 15 elements for whatever reason lols :P

yes the heal isn’t the greatest but if you aren’t running trickster you will run out of initiative way to fast

Mortee, honestly, even if you manage a 100% crit rate, which i think is not possible, could be wrong tho, it won’t do you any good, you’ll just be onehitted by 90% of your enemies, re-think your build, sorry if i sound too harsh

Vaide don’t stop playing DD, because if we all stop, more ppl will cry about DP bing op —> next nerf incoming, take cover.
besides, we play dd because we love the playstyle, don’t let anet take it from you. keep playing it, improve on it, just think, if you can win outnumbered fights with a nerfed dd thief, what will happen if it’ll ever get buffed again. don’t give up on DD

JaeleCt.3967:

no doubt Dhawk. i dusted off my guard for some spvp yesterday after being frustrated with my thief. even without really knowing wtf i was doing initially, my guard was performing as well as my d/p thief, and by the end of the day it wasnt even a comparison…

the biggest thing I’ve been noticing is that like 90% of the tieves are still running full zerker gear, guys stats aren’t part of the traitlines anymore, your health is only 12k full zerk, how many times do you need to be one hitted to finally realize that full zerk, at least for DD and DP is dead.
Thief takes so much more skill post patch than almost any other class (imho). think outside of the box, don’t soully listen to the meta and come up with your own builds, as i have. I run a DD thief with 2,85k power, 21,5k hp and 250% crit damage, i can now withstand the damage in a 1v4 and even come out successfully most of the time with about 60% health left. I learned to work around all the nerfs, I’m not saying thief is op, i think he’s the weakest class atm. but using your traits, build effectivly and practicing on your skill will keep us alive. the only thing I really miss as DD is the old SE but mostly the old CiS, how the hell could they make that a GM, Anet pls…

HunterMcGregor.6843:

DHawk.2687:

HunterMcGregor.6843:

Yeah, triple stepping to someone, Crit’ing 7k with a CnD then a 11k Backstab is not fun… JUZ KEEDZZ

Critcal Strikes, Deadly Arts and Trickery. Mmmmmmmmmm. Can’t get enough of 2 hitting people.

Well personally, I only find this game fun when there is a risk involved. No defensive traits at all.

Just copy that build and you will be 2-shotting lights and mediums with ease.

No combination of weapons is “garbage”, just personal preference I guess.

I’m sorry but I can’t believe that you do a 11k backstab, I’m not trying to be rude, but I’ve been testing out so many different things with the thief post patch and simply math wise the backstab can’t go past about 9,7k
so if I’m missing something please enlighten me

Here is the build I use in WvW.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoYVlsMhunYpTwyJw/EHwE1OQXuUwHGnRboTgAIDA-TFSDwAHeAAP3fU+l4EAKBfp+DI9BAMBN4IAI5QAQKA9UGB-w

Power should be roughly : 3,050 after the guard stacks and Bloodlust sigil maxed.

Plus with the new trait “Flanking Strikes”, you will most defiantly stomp them within seconds.

sure, if you want to kill one enemy and run away, or miss your burst and instadie,
that build just screems one hit me please

zerk thief is not viable anymore, i have 2,85k power, 21,5k health and 250% crit damage, if a thief like you backstabs me, i turn around CnD backstab kill
easy, when will ppl learn full zerk thief is not worth it anymore

Vieux P.1238:

MidoriMarch.8067:

Stupid devs obv got no brain.
They didnt give a kitten about d/d….

Idk, i think the devs should focus on balancing thief players instead of trying to balance the thief class. I mean thief players have no skill’s. Except for does who does & can actually kill stuff.

saying thief players have no skill is a direct insult to all thiefs that have spent countless hours trying to master this class.
Yes we HAD superior damage but i came at high risk and took a lot of skill to pull off outnumbered fights,
of course there is the occasional 22222222222222222 thief, but saying thief doesn’t take skill is closed minded and probably coming from someone who doesn’t know how to play thief.

Same issue here, without CiS D/D thief has taken a major hit,
it really hurt me bad the first week.
but i found a way to turn my dd thief into a semi viable thief.
e.g. i easily 1v4 a group or roamers and defended a tower at the same time, i can zerkdive taking out 8 players when i’m really taking advantage of CnD and get out with about 75% health
due to the SE changes and CiS being non optional i had to mess around with my build a bit and came up with this, we DD thiefs need to be smack in the enemies face for CnD, meaning running full zerk gear would be pathetically dumb. 2 hits from an autoattack and your done for. so i keept all my trinkets and weapons zerker (except for the earring zerk valk) and made my armor valk stats, with the combo of gear traits and runes i run solid 21k health, 2,85k power, about 50% crit rate and sweet 250% crit damage!
This is all the info I’ll give you on my build tho, since i don’t like giving out builds i worked hard for and spent a great amount of gold for, just so others can copy paste it, i hope you’ll find to understand that.
anyhow with this build stuns don’t matter since they just fall off, you have enough sustain to compete in outnumbered fights and dives and have the power to oneshot thiefs, rangers, ele and mesmers if they run a glassy build.
using this build effectivly i managed to take out DP thieves PU mesmers and condi Engis which are as we know, post patch, pretty strong counters to the thief, especially dd.
With this post I’m trying to encurage you all to work on your builds and rely more on your skill then we have before, since we are all pretty nerfed. We all love our dd thieves and i won’t let anet ruin my class, all I’m really missing is CiS and the old SE.
Good luck you all

Advent.6193:

Honestly, I think they [ANet] may wish to look into shrinking the health-pool gap a bit.

• Currently, low-health starts ~10k, medium ~15k, high ~18k.
• This was from before they removed stat boosts from trait lines.
• Would not a more logical setup be: 12-12.5k, 15k, 18k? At least that would help the low-health classes even out a bit. As is, one can argue that a 5k gap from low to medium, followed by merely 3k separating medium from high … was unbalanced by default.

uhm, the lowest you can have with the thief is 12k… just fyi

DD is the weakest thief atm, but I also run it because it’s my fav way to play the thief
anyhow, please don’t go condi tank, that’s hardly even trolling the enenmy

i came up with a allround high dps high sustain (relativly high, considering thiefs situation) which has been pretty effective in a focusparty, solo and grouproaming, eg i even took out a 4v1 (one enemy being a omega golem) alone with success

I won’t post my entire build because that’ll just end up in ppl flaming because they might not aggree with me. but anyhow, i have about 2,9k power with full stacks, 19,6k health, 60% crit rate and 240% crit damage. I only have 3 ascended trinkets (2 rings and 1 amulet) the rest ist normal exotic
one hint, berserk is useless, you won’t onehit medium to heavy 80% of the time even with full dbs sigil build, we don’t have that power anymore. Try out Valkyrie…

Hint: Yishis

don’t craft it yet!
it’s a waste of time, money and mats
wait for the next (or the one after that) balancing patch that actually balanced thief too
don’t waste your stuff
if you play pve mostly anyway your fine with exotic and crafting armor for a broken unbalanced underpowered class would just harm you

This is solely my opinion, i don’t need anyone to flame me or call the thief op because he disagrees, if you don’t agree, just ignore me.
Thanks

what thief is good at now, running away xD
no but seriously, the only things you can kill are zerk necro ele and ranger
that’s about it, i won’t go into the why’s because ppl will just start flaming, thief is so op, like always…

what i can tell you, try to keep playing it and improve on your skill, don’t let a nerf (strong nerf) take away your fun with the thief.
and keeps me playing thief is, if i kill someone now (I play DD, meaning everything counters me xD) i enjoy it even more because i know i had more skill
and if you are able to manage or even be good with an underpowered broken thief, you’ll have a blast IIIIIIFFFFF he’ll ever get buffed again ^^
good luck bud

Mattigan.6395:

JaeleCt.3967:

Mattigan.6395:

in sPvP with Marauders in a d/d glassy signet build I can hit for about 8-10K on a backstab. Between the Mug, CnD , HS, fire/air procs, and between 5-10 stacks of might from signet use it usually ends the fight right there.

But that’s about all I can do. Shadowstep to run away if they recover or put on SoS, Endure Pain, desperate decoy activation, etc.

I am what Anet made me.

i tried d/d instaburst for a few games too. all that happened is i would jump in with cnd/bs combo. the person i was jumping’s passive auto invul/fear etc. went off. they turn and burst me right back, almost killing me if i had a utility off cooldown, outright killing me if they werent…

Yes, that happens quite a bit, too. Nightmare runes are the bane of all thieves, I feel.

But if I go into the less-then-stellar SA then my damage is marginalized while my sustain/survive is only slightly increased.

With thieves, or thieves at my level of play I should say, it feels like it’s all-in or nothing.

yup, and if you miss your burst, go say bye bye ^^
but hey, it’s balanced right? xD

what weaponset do you play? I’d guess DP

Arenanet please let someone out of your team who really plays the thief over long periods of time or better even as their main class, this patch hast nerfed us in so many ways it just makes thief look like a gimmic. In addition to that the only valuable build is D/P. I still want to play DD but the way you (sorry but you did) pretty much screw up our traits it’s almost unplayable. e.g. having Cloaked in Shadows being a GM trait along with Shadows Rejuvination is just a punch in the face for me.
You just simply cannot make the 1500 range on ranger and Illusionary persona on mesmer standard, they do NOT have to trait for something that powerfull and give us a F2
a simple F2 that makes about none to little difference in battle
Please but the thief on the same standard as the other classes, it just wasn’t a fair patch.
I could go on for hours counting up all the nerfs and lacks the thief has and that almost every class out damages, out sustains and out bursts the thief now.
But that’ll only make ppl flame again. Please don’t break the class more than you already have, we’d all (all thief players) would really appreciate some love for our class after years of nerfs.
Thanks for listening.

I’d like to see the backstab being more usefull, since it takes a lot of skill and timing to get the burst right (I play DD thief) the damage of max 9k is just not justified, considering a mesmer GS2 F1 combo will onehit almost every class in the game, or simply the ranger LB 2 will burst you down in a second, I want to see that they either buff Backstab and Cloak & Dagger dmg, just by a little bit, or nerf the damage on some other burst skill, eg. take out the vuln stacks from Longbow 2

Rin.1046:

DHawk.2687:

if you don’t even know how much stealth you can gain from SR you certainly aren’t a so called stealth user, so stop your bsing
FYI with the added second trait SR will give you 16sec, not 20
plus if you cannot knockback a thief out of hit or just simply kill him within that’s your problem, killing a thief is easy as hell!
even more now post patch

From the moment you stealth, when you first use SR, to the moment stealth ends (traited) it is 20 seconds. Jump in game and count it. I will accept that the last 16 seconds are easier to maintain and more effective at hiding your location than the first 4 seconds, but that doesn’t change that fact that the total amount of traited stealth from SR is 20 seconds.

that doesn’t help you one bit, beacause you cannot fully utilize those 4 seconds since you NEED to stay in the AOE field or else you will loose stealth and be revealed
and since everyone can see the field it just screems “hey I’m a sitting duck kill me pls” if you use it inside of combat or when trying to escape ( I’m not saying you are supposed to use it that way)
Meaning, you only have 16 sec at your disposal, the 4 seconds don’t contribute to the overall efektivness of the stealth

The thing is, TECHNICALLY the patch buffed every class, but everything was buffed more than the thief,
thief is litterally the weakest class in the game, the only classes he can still kill without having to much fear is beserk ele, necro and ranger
thats about it
the only real thing we got from the patch is the F2 which is nothing compared to the ranger or the mesmer

Yet the funny thing is, altho almost EVEY class can easily one bang the thief, half of our community is still crying about thief being OP
it’s really starting to become pathetic
if they keep whining like that, anet will nerf us again and again and again
as it has been since launch

funny think is that the passive heal is of SR is lower than the heal you get on the regeneration boon when entering stealth, my god this trait is so good it really deserves to be GM
not xD

Zero Day.2594:

Originally by: Zelulose.8695

What: Nerf Thief?
Why: Even I am not sure if this is a joke or serious but check out this link to find out for yourself.
They want Ele nerfed and mesmer nerfed, but I say, why not nerf this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ctFFUSMajs

Thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Nerf-Thief-This-vid-is-for-the-balance-team/first

dude I’m starting to think you really suck in this game, you call thief op because a glasscanon thief kills another glasscanon thief in 2-3 fast hits?
are you really that childish??
the only way to really do that much dmg with the thief atm is to go SO glasscanon that almost every single class can onehit you
WITHOUT STEALTH, WITHOUT BACKSTAB, meaning without the skillcap of the thief

in other words, l2p dude and stop kittening about a class that’ll instadie if you just sneeze in his direction, if you aren’t skilled enough to take out the weakest class, don’t try it or l2p as i said, but stop spamming your bs on forums just because you are kitten and need to be able to kill something
it is SO pathetically easy to kill a thief post patch

a little tipp for you nub, if you see a thief go stealth, don’t turn your back on him, spin autoattack, cc, stun, aoe, dodge, etc. COUNTLESS of ways to turn the thiefs burst into dust, just as i said (again) L2FP

HunterMcGregor.6843:

Yeah, triple stepping to someone, Crit’ing 7k with a CnD then a 11k Backstab is not fun… JUZ KEEDZZ

Critcal Strikes, Deadly Arts and Trickery. Mmmmmmmmmm. Can’t get enough of 2 hitting people.

Well personally, I only find this game fun when there is a risk involved. No defensive traits at all.

No combination of weapons is “garbage”, just personal preference I guess.

I’m sorry but I can’t believe that you do a 11k backstab, I’m not trying to be rude, but I’ve been testing out so many different things with the thief post patch and simply math wise the backstab can’t go past about 9,7k
so if I’m missing something please enlighten me

Marthkus.4615:

Acrobatics gives a 50% move speed buff while stealthed and perma stealth is not that hard to get.

that depends on the situation and the build tho

e.g. i play dd, if I’m alone without any mobs are walls i can hit, i cannot permastealth
d/p will run out of initiative fast if stealthing alone
etc

havin CiS is kinda an insult to D/D backstab thiefs, imo
because it makes hardly any sense to take it over Hidden Killer (unless your crit chance is about 85%+ anhow)
but that’s just my 2 cents

i liked thief pre patch tons more

try it out, you’ll never know if you don’t
i honestly don’t think it’ll be very good, but it’s worth a try, i could be wrong

plus everyone has a different play style, don’t souly stick to the meta, I’ve allwas had more success with my own build

Star.8401:

Thank you DHawk and Spirit for proving that no thread can ever have constructive criticism or productive discussion because two people can’t let their interweb egos go and believe their own selfish opinions are the only right ones.

Bravo for proving just how useless GW2 forums can be.

I never said that my opinion is the only right one, i was just sick and tired of hearing ppl complain about a class they, by the looks of it, don’t even play and are just mad because they aren’t able to counter it.
All I’ve been trying to do is set wrong information in the right direction

SpiritSpeakerOfHoelbrak.3980:

Dave.6819:

SpiritSpeakerOfHoelbrak.3980:

Dave.6819:

exactly why im thinkin to quit thief for good. THIS change and also “gain iniative every 4seconds while in stealth”. that trait was nerfed so bad too. used to be “whenever u gain stealth”. now on DP 1 combo of 5+2 is not enuff. even one combo is quite risky cuz u can land HS and reveal urself. so now u gotta do 5+2+2.. huge huge deal. iniative and condi was rly important for a DP Thief runnin SA.

for now just playin that glassy meta DP but i wish they could change back SA trait. this new “meta” is rly rly glassy. Anet we need you to give us ALL condis and Gain ini whenever entering stealth (like used to be)!

D/p thief before patch was bs op. Now it’s fair. I personally think invis classes are puss espically the ones that spam blinds every 2secs. With this change, thief can no longer hide and reset the fight 2million times.

its not puss or anytin. its just different type of defense. id be interested to see how you would react if your main source of defense would be nerfed. lets say your blocks/shouts/shelter/invuln signets/meditation condi cleanses or your vigor or whatever defense mechanism you have. im sure u’d just go and QQ in forums. Thief is fun, hard to play, challenging to master and has a different def. mechanism (hence why i think a well played Thief has a right to be OP. atleast Thieves takes some effort to be good unlike other classes). and its not like you cant hit us while we are in stealth anyway. but yes you are the type that wants only good stuff for your class so idk if theres even a reason to talk to u.

See the thing is all these defensive skills you speek of have this cool thing called a cool down. Im not sure you heard about it cause you know thiefs have like non of those, except for there utilities. like when you can blind/invis spam as a class your puss im sorry. Play S/D or another class that does not just revolve around a gimmick. And yes you can hit them in invis if they are idiots and are predictable. the greates thing Anet did for this game was make it so that thiefs invis condi cleanse did not remove movement condition cause not like you said i can hit them in invis

I’m starting to think you are either just a troll or that your mouth has been replaced with your kitten since everything you’ve been saying is BS
and btw, there is this extra cooldown called “revealed”
and the cd on utility skills is VERY high

so (once again) stop your kittening
no hard feelings right?

SpiritSpeakerOfHoelbrak.3980:

Dave.6819:

exactly why im thinkin to quit thief for good. THIS change and also “gain iniative every 4seconds while in stealth”. that trait was nerfed so bad too. used to be “whenever u gain stealth”. now on DP 1 combo of 5+2 is not enuff. even one combo is quite risky cuz u can land HS and reveal urself. so now u gotta do 5+2+2.. huge huge deal. iniative and condi was rly important for a DP Thief runnin SA.

for now just playin that glassy meta DP but i wish they could change back SA trait. this new “meta” is rly rly glassy. Anet we need you to give us ALL condis and Gain ini whenever entering stealth (like used to be)!

D/p thief before patch was bs op. Now it’s fair. I personally think invis classes are puss espically the ones that spam blinds every 2secs. With this change, thief can no longer hide and reset the fight 2million times.

sounds to me like you are just kitten because you have been killed by thieves over and over, without ever even playing one.
plus if you let him get away and reset that easily blame yourself, learn to counter thief, there are so many kitten ways to, especially now!

Rin.1046:

Maybe they can just make SE give you invulnerability and immunity to conditions while in stealth? Stealth seems so underpowered. All you can do is hit hard from it, heal in it, gain ini faster in it, make yourself harder to hit in most situations, and reset most fights using it. If only it could have more advantages. If only stealth was the thief’s only mechanic they needed to use. Then we wouldn’t have to worry about learning any other mechanic or learn to use other non-steal skills! /s

Seriously, this is a good change. And in my opinion a necessary one. Not all nerfs are bad nerfs. Some of them are necessary and good for the game. Just as the engi’s Lock On trait is also a good addition. Cleaving and AoE’ing areas, in the hopes of hitting a stealthed enemy, is not good enough imo. Yes, some professions can knock or fear you out of SA, but that is the price you pay for having a skill that can give you 20 odd seconds of stealth. There needs to be drawbacks for such a powerful skill. And the same goes for stealth in general. There needs to be more solid ways of countering stealth, and I am really happy (as a stealth user) to see Anet adding more counter options and adjusting the potency of stealth for the thief.

The meta is changing, this is something you cannot avoid. With so many changes to skills and traits, builds people got confortable with are very likely to need adjustment. For me, I now take something else on my skill bar to deal with immob. This is not a big deal, and I can still make good use of stealth, both offensively and defensively. This change is not as crippling as many are making out.

Learn to adapt. And if Anet finds hundreds of thieves are dropping like flies, because of this change, I am sure they will fix it. But I doubt very much that will happen, because those who enjoy the profession as a whole, and not just the stealth mechanic, will likely be happy to adapt and will find ways to cope with this change.

if you don’t even know how much stealth you can gain from SR you certainly aren’t a so called stealth user, so stop your bsing
FYI with the added second trait SR will give you 16sec, not 20
plus if you cannot knockback a thief out of hit or just simply kill him within that’s your problem, killing a thief is easy as hell!
even more now post patch

SpiritSpeakerOfHoelbrak.3980:

FlawlezZ.3178:

SpiritSpeakerOfHoelbrak.3980:

FlawlezZ.3178:

this is wvw with buffs. and still only 10k? where is your 15k?
you know you don’t use signet of malice nor signet of blood in pvp / wvw?
you know you can just block, blind or port away and that thief from first video is dead (he has used all his utilities)?

srsly?

My point is. when you have a class that can hit insane dmg when you cant even see them. that is broken. idk about you but im not gonna spam dodges just cause i think a thief maybe behind me. Like thief before (and i would argue still now) is just a gank class. they can unload so much dmg on you before you even see them just by using SR and talking up to you without you noticing. If backstab had a cast time and in mid cast the thief would come out of invis then fine. but no so the least they can do is making it so you can lock down that bs and actually fight. Thief has way to many escaps and ways to invis for people to be crying that going invis does not remove every condition.

what? you see them after the first hit. they are revealed for 4 seconds. when they place SR you know where they are for 4 seconds. you can see infiltrator arrow. you can see smoke field. you can pop signet, endure pain, obsidian flesh, use mesmer f4 to get no damage at all and thief can’t do anything against it

The first hit is the one the matter the most. i dont want to have to take 7k+ backstab dmg. but you pretty much have to if they walk in already clocked.

spirit I’m sorry to tell you this but you are simply talking bs
1: the ONLY way for the tief (full berserker gear) to one shot someone is by having all stacks maxed out, sneak up from stealth, hit the c&d backstab heartseaker combo, which still will mostly not one hit your foes (and technically isn’t even a one hit!!!)
this combo is only possible if you play a dd thief, which hardly anyone does anymore, so stop kittening
2. this combo is not used within stealth, you sneak up invisible, wait until you aren´t anymore than do the combo, while doing the combo you also are revealed, meaning the attacked player can see you 2 times and react to you
3. in the most cases the player being attacked has seen the thief, meaning not seeing him anymore (stealth) means he is attacking, so don’ expose your back, use a block skill, TURN around a few times, hit your autoattack, boom initial attack counter if done correctly
4. yes thiefs dmg has been slightly buffed, but every other class has been awarded a magure buff, meaning the damage is not high compared to the other classes, e.g. a warriors GS3 can onehit, a mesmer can onehit, ele can one hit, so can necro and lets not forget our favourite the engineer.

5. you keep kittening about SR which is the EASIEST deception skill to counter, just use a knockback or anything, it’s a big HIT ME sign for everyone, no thief will use it pre fight, well not the intelligent ones…
6. all stealth utility skills and shadowstep have a increadably long cooldown, and most of them HiS SR for eg have a delay, meaning the skill needs to be charged and does not give instant invisiblity

7. the lack of condi removal is a death sentance for thieves post patch (POST) due to the extream increas in their power, eg 3 ticks of burn will kill you in 2-5 sec if you are unlucky
8. due to our reduced health an immo means automatic death
and so on and so on

the only real buff the thief got i a F2 button, whoopdydoodaday

before the patch imo the thief was balanced, if you knew how to counter him it was really easy, if you didn’t and the thief was somewhat skilled, see ya so long

but now post patch almost every class has more sustain and raw damage output than the thief, plus the nerf to his invisibility makes it even worse.

i have several friends who played thieves in ESL etc. they all say the same, don’t touch him and play something else if you don’t want to hate your fav. class

If you disagree go play thief yourself, have fun being kitten d by classes that shouldn’t be able to just onehit you and need 3+ backstabs just to get to 50% hp

arenanet pls just make the thief more valuable to players and focusparties again. It’s simply pathetic in it’s current state.

PS: to Rin or whatever your name was (sorry^^) no i don’t only need my stealth to survive, pre patch, because i didn’t die from one single hit all day long. and even post patch i wouldn’t need it, if as i said you could withstand more than a sneeze in your direction!!

Rayti.6531:

DHawk.2687:

Rayti.6531:

DHawk.2687:

Shiki.7148:

maddoctor.2738:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Odd since bleed wasn’t buffed…

I guess stacking to 1500 isn’t a “Buff” for bleeding

Tell me the class that stacks bleeds that high on their own please? Because I’m pretty sure this is only a buff in PvE. I’m not even sure the condition-cap is even increased in sPvP.

His point is that just the fact that condi is basically stackable unlimited it is a buff no matter what

I wouldn’t call it a buff but finally making conditions work and not negating all dmg that comes from the people who apply bleeding after stack number 25…

That’s true, but that should only be on the pve side, wvw and pvp is totally unbalanced since 2 shots of a condi engi can kill you if you don’t get rid of the condies asap
The problem is that you cannot really counter a condi build atm, because if you don’t use all your removes instantly you die, and after using all of them the condies will be re-applied anyhow and you die, since condies only need to run/Kyle/mostly run away and since they mostly have high tankyness you cannot kill them as raw dmg dealer alone
It took 3 thieves using a backstab with 3k power and 230% crit dmg at 100% crit rate to get a condi ranger half health, but 1 of his traps deals 10K dmg with the first tick of the condis
No this is not made up or anything of such sort, I have it recorded if ppl don’t believe me
The only way to counter a condi is to play a stronger condi or to have him totally oblivious to what’s happening
And that just simply isn’t any balance at all

That’s why I think it’s not the dmg itself that needs to be nerfed, but the amount of stacks certain classes can apply (on their own, not talking about the 1500 cap), and the frequency of it.

Nerfing dmg would not change a thing, except that a few more stacks will be needed to do the job. And since everyone and their granny can apply some kind of conditions… You will get those stacks and still die just as fast.

I still don’t see why direct dmg builds even apply conditions. It would make much more sense to only apply them when you specifically spec for it…

Yes exactly
And what you describe is simply but the reason why a condition remove is somewhat useless, because the condi are back within 1 or 2 sec

Extreme.8350:

Pickles.9436:

welcome to the new meta. Please wait at least 2 months before complaining about said meta, so everyone has a chance to just spec into it.

I’m hoping for power, toughness, vitality really…

That was the meta in wvw for so long and those toxic players would tell rangers and condi players to uinstall now let us rangers have our fun

You mean lay a trap and run away, yeah now ain’t that skill

Rayti.6531:

DHawk.2687:

Shiki.7148:

maddoctor.2738:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Odd since bleed wasn’t buffed…

I guess stacking to 1500 isn’t a “Buff” for bleeding

Tell me the class that stacks bleeds that high on their own please? Because I’m pretty sure this is only a buff in PvE. I’m not even sure the condition-cap is even increased in sPvP.

His point is that just the fact that condi is basically stackable unlimited it is a buff no matter what

I wouldn’t call it a buff but finally making conditions work and not negating all dmg that comes from the people who apply bleeding after stack number 25…

That’s true, but that should only be on the pve side, wvw and pvp is totally unbalanced since 2 shots of a condi engi can kill you if you don’t get rid of the condies asap
The problem is that you cannot really counter a condi build atm, because if you don’t use all your removes instantly you die, and after using all of them the condies will be re-applied anyhow and you die, since condies only need to run/Kyle/mostly run away and since they mostly have high tankyness you cannot kill them as raw dmg dealer alone
It took 3 thieves using a backstab with 3k power and 230% crit dmg at 100% crit rate to get a condi ranger half health, but 1 of his traps deals 10K dmg with the first tick of the condis
No this is not made up or anything of such sort, I have it recorded if ppl don’t believe me
The only way to counter a condi is to play a stronger condi or to have him totally oblivious to what’s happening
And that just simply isn’t any balance at all

Shiki.7148:

maddoctor.2738:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Odd since bleed wasn’t buffed…

I guess stacking to 1500 isn’t a “Buff” for bleeding

Tell me the class that stacks bleeds that high on their own please? Because I’m pretty sure this is only a buff in PvE. I’m not even sure the condition-cap is even increased in sPvP.

His point is that just the fact that condi is basically stackable unlimited it is a buff no matter what

Not op, are you kidding me? I have recorded futage of a condi ranger laying one trap and the first tick of the 5-7 applied conditions doing 14k dmg to thieves and in addition to that, we encountered a condi mesmer who single handedly destroyed a tank necro (with activation of a full death shroud) within 3 seconds.
I’m taking over 1k dmg from just 2-3 stacks of burn, which takes about nothing to apply.
Furthermore the argument that we have condi clense is somewhat pathetic, because of the fact, that as soon as you cleansed they’re back in a few seconds, so you just wasted 1-3 skills and all that gave you was a longer death, congratulations.
In addition it is kinda unfair that mist condi players only need to run away and apply the condis, due to their high tankyness you have no chance of killing them and you almost instadie to his condies. It’s a joke in its current state and takes NO skill whatsoever to play condi.
No one cares about pve, you can leave it like that for pve, but bring it back to the pre patch state maybe a little bit better for both pvp and wvw, or you’ll see either condi only all the time or just a huge number of players leave guild wars.
This is not an objective opinion but a neutral fact which I can prove, as I said with recorded gameplay.
Arenanet pls balance the game!