Guild Wars 2

Nethod.7068:

DHawk.2687:

i don’t get why most guards use shelter anyway, i used to play a full medi build before HoT, with the medi heal, healing for up to 15k, low cd and gives fury, yes it is an offensive heal and you need to be able to use it but the only benefit of shelter is the block, wow..
second now with HoT the heal trap is superior to shelter as well, 10k heal, blind, aoe regen, lower CD as shelter
the only reason most guards use shelter is as an oh kitten skill to get another block, honestly i think shelter is overrated and not as good as it used to be..

might of the protector in valor pool gives might per block and shelter can block more than once…(one random reason)

yeah but it has an icd now, so you only get 1, max 2 blocks out of it, not good enough for the high cd with low heal imho

this post is either QQ QQ QQ or trololololo
thief already is at the bottom of the list for most 1v1 situations,
there is no way to “one shot” as a single thief anymore, 1 because backstabs dmg is somewhat pathetic, 2 because almost every class has 1 to 2 invuln, one that autoprocs, so one shot is total bullkitten
last thing is, if you get ganked by 2 or more thieves, of course you’ll die, what do you expect, i guess we should nerf every single class that can work as a team, since 2 or 3 mesmer, warri, guards, etc will kill you that fast as well..

Silverkey.2078:

I hope:

• strong scrapper survivability nerf
• mild revenant shiro nerf (e.g. remove endurance gain on the stunbreak)
• druid pet nerf and search and rescue range nerf
• milld mesmer sustained damage buff (AA)
• partial revert of the thief AA buff and increase of survivability
• reaper condi damage nerf

I expect:

• more power creep

thiefs AA buff is a pve change to make the class more vialbe, which i think has worked well, thieves can dish out very good sustained dmg now on mobs while saving their ini for survivability
in pvp or wvw however the patch didn’t change anything, since as a thief you are so squishy that you can’t just sit there autoattacking ^^
i would aggree nerfing the staff tho, well actually !almost! every elite spec weapon haha ^^

where can anet chose “money” or “power creep due to dlc specs”? ^^

i don’t get why most guards use shelter anyway, i used to play a full medi build before HoT, with the medi heal, healing for up to 15k, low cd and gives fury, yes it is an offensive heal and you need to be able to use it but the only benefit of shelter is the block, wow..
second now with HoT the heal trap is superior to shelter as well, 10k heal, blind, aoe regen, lower CD as shelter
the only reason most guards use shelter is as an oh kitten skill to get another block, honestly i think shelter is overrated and not as good as it used to be..

for me the easiest way is to apply heavy pressure, not giving him any room to breathe
as soon as he is the one applying pressure you can really get in trouble
and really make sure not to heal him when he uses the glint heal
other than that most revs are relativly easy to kill, for me it’s the oposite of fighting a warri, instead of kyting and waiting for his invulns to go on cd and then having easy pickings i need to get him low fast and make sure he can’t really react

I’m fine with not getting extra ini regen, i think that would be too strong
but we should get some kind of benefit out of it, maybe something like no cd on weapon swap while under the effect of alacrity, wouldn’t be op but usefull in some situations imo

Rezzet.3614:

DHawk.2687:

Yashuoa.9527:

DHawk.2687:

mov.1246:

Scrapper got enough nerfs in the past, u just need to learn how to play against them.
Scrapper are weak against: condi, hard cc, kite. We must have a lot of blocks, invuln and evades because we lack condi cleanse, stability, armor, and range attacks.
The only thing that is patethic, is that you whine in the engi forum that we are too strong in your oppinion.

tldr; L2P

It’s funny reading this, I main a thief and read you saying you lack condi cleanse, stab, armor and range that’s why you need a lot of invuln, blocks etc
well i do not have any stab, bad condi cleanse, a 2 sec invuln noone takes, less armor and less range
so why don’t we buff thief to have all the sustain scrapper has? since that is your way of argumenting about the current state of scrapper ^^

Your arguments both dont hold. Scrapper doesnt have the burst Daredevil has, nor the mobility. Besides Daredevils are more about avoiding dmg, rather than blocking or healing it back up.
As weird as it sounds, Daredevils dont have less range than Scrapper.

Anyway, Scrapper needs a playstyle change to be a bit less good in 1 on 1 and a bit better in support.

Currently Scrapper is more allround with smaller weaknesses spread out, rather than really specialised in one area, with a big weakness in another.
They are build well for 1 on 1, which raises complaints.
Becoming more supportive and less powerful in 1 on 1 could fix issues, without nerfing them into useless.

scrapper might not have a DrD burst yes, but what good is a burst if the enemy player has 1 to 2 get out of jail free cards with invuln skills/autoproc invuln traits,
consistant high dmg with good tankyness if much more viable in 1v1 or outnumbered situations than 1 to max 3 good burst if you just end up doing 0 dmg due to silly autoprocs
and yes DrD has less range, unless you consider wasting all your gap closers at once for range, which still isn’t ranged dmg, it’s a gap closer
Hammer simply does too much dmg for what it does, there are enough engi players out there that aggree that the hammer makes every other set obsolete
I also like playing hammer, for the playstyle, but i feel cheesy as f doing so cause it’s simply easy mode on the scrapper, the dmg on most skills is very high yet the CD are really low, meaning you mostly don’t even need much more than the hammer and the heal turret to win a match
nerfing it’s dmg down and/or increasing CD would make rifle more viable as power set and open up more diversity amongs builds

daredevil is as easy as running staff+ bounding dodger that way you yank up to 3k hp By Dodging per dodge daredevil’s high mobility alone is a counter against hammer scrappers as long you have even one stun break they wont lock you down unless you are simply bad

thief does have cleanses if you dont know them that isnt scrapper’s fault
thief has a 15 second cooldown block and 2 seconds absolute invuln 2s evade > invuln as it ignores both direct and condi skills .

your question goes backwards to you what good is a defensive profession and build if it can be burst instantly like any other glass build?

1. if you pick bounded dodger as thief your mobility is 0
2. heal on dodge has a ICD and it’s not 3k hpa thiefs stunbreak is at least 50sec cd, least is 40, how long is hammer #5 #3 cd? don’t give me that kitten easy
3. yes thief has a nerfed cleanse on shadow arts, a trait line that makes no sense to take anymore, and it only takes away dmg dealing condis, which is ok in theory but horrible in practice, can’t remove vuln, weakness, slow etc.
4. Acrobatic is still a trait line that makes no real sense to take, especially because it’s basically a weak DrD tree, meaning if you take both you are missing dps or utility, if you take on of them there is no reason to take Acro over DrD as power build
5. even if you would take Acrobatic, noone except for noobs that instant die all the time take the invuln trait, hell i haven’t seen it on a thief 1 ever since it came out, why? because it’s useless, if you take acro, you take the condi cleanse that cleanses when you take dmg below 70%hp with a high icd, —> horrible cleanse against condi heavy builds
6. as DrD you have bandit’s defense which is a 1,5s block on 15s CD, a skill that is very situational and therefore isn’t often used or successfull, especially considering the amount of unblockable skills in the game you mostly don’t even succeed in the block, and furthermore you are acting like 1 single block on 15s cd is gonna make thief wreck other classes, scrapper has 2 blocks, 1 that even does dmg while blocking, what was the CD on those?? :P

the hammer on scrapper needs adjustment, the CD are too low/the dmg is too high
and it’s that way on porpouse, so anet can sell more copies of the DLC, which one of you all hasn’t noticed that EVERY elite is better than the base class, furthermore the elite spec line makes 1-3 of the other lines of the class totally irrelevant, e.g. thief, DrD makes acro and shadow arts basically useless
every single elite needs to be tuned down

Yashuoa.9527:

DHawk.2687:

Yashuoa.9527:

DHawk.2687:

mov.1246:

Scrapper got enough nerfs in the past, u just need to learn how to play against them.
Scrapper are weak against: condi, hard cc, kite. We must have a lot of blocks, invuln and evades because we lack condi cleanse, stability, armor, and range attacks.
The only thing that is patethic, is that you whine in the engi forum that we are too strong in your oppinion.

tldr; L2P

It’s funny reading this, I main a thief and read you saying you lack condi cleanse, stab, armor and range that’s why you need a lot of invuln, blocks etc
well i do not have any stab, bad condi cleanse, a 2 sec invuln noone takes, less armor and less range
so why don’t we buff thief to have all the sustain scrapper has? since that is your way of argumenting about the current state of scrapper ^^

Your arguments both dont hold. Scrapper doesnt have the burst Daredevil has, nor the mobility. Besides Daredevils are more about avoiding dmg, rather than blocking or healing it back up.
As weird as it sounds, Daredevils dont have less range than Scrapper.

Anyway, Scrapper needs a playstyle change to be a bit less good in 1 on 1 and a bit better in support.

Currently Scrapper is more allround with smaller weaknesses spread out, rather than really specialised in one area, with a big weakness in another.
They are build well for 1 on 1, which raises complaints.
Becoming more supportive and less powerful in 1 on 1 could fix issues, without nerfing them into useless.

scrapper might not have a DrD burst yes, but what good is a burst if the enemy player has 1 to 2 get out of jail free cards with invuln skills/autoproc invuln traits,
consistant high dmg with good tankyness if much more viable in 1v1 or outnumbered situations than 1 to max 3 good burst if you just end up doing 0 dmg due to silly autoprocs
and yes DrD has less range, unless you consider wasting all your gap closers at once for range, which still isn’t ranged dmg, it’s a gap closer
Hammer simply does too much dmg for what it does, there are enough engi players out there that aggree that the hammer makes every other set obsolete
I also like playing hammer, for the playstyle, but i feel cheesy as f doing so cause it’s simply easy mode on the scrapper, the dmg on most skills is very high yet the CD are really low, meaning you mostly don’t even need much more than the hammer and the heal turret to win a match
nerfing it’s dmg down and/or increasing CD would make rifle more viable as power set and open up more diversity amongs builds

Scrappers usually dont play with Elixir S on their utility bar + Elixir S trait, so they wont have those 2 invulns that you are talking about.
Some play with neither. Sure it can be nice vs power dmg, but you cant use any abilities while its active and if you have a condi bomb on you, than you will die while the invuln is active.

Also the strengths I mentioned from Daredevil can be useful (not only their burst but their mobility and +1 function too).
Not everyone has invulns and even if they do, bursting someone so that it procs is useful too (nor is the fight over when it procs).

Regarding less or more range. Scrappers have less gap closers than Daredevils and less ranged dmging abilities.

If you dont need more than the hammer and healturret to win a fight, than you fight people who really have no clue how to fight a scrapper. I think that you are exaggarating.

Scrappers are more allround with strengths and weaknesses spread out, rather than few big strengths and few big weaknesses (as some other builds).
So its less obvious how to tackle them. They are good in 1 on 1 (without dominating most/without losing hard to most. Usually slight advantage, slight disadvantage or stalemate), which probably raises complaints.
They have never been stacked or overly represented on tournies, so they cant be way to good either.

Making scrapper a bit more about groupsupport and a bit less strong in 1 on 1 could be good. That would keep scrapper good while weakening it 1 on 1 a bit.
Meaning it doesnt need a nerf, it needs a bit of a playstyle shift.

There are some others like reapers, druids and daredevils for example. who are just as good as scrapper. What about those?
Also when changing/nerfing a class, you have to keep the other classes in mind too. Changing/nerfing one class can make another class to strong.
A build can sorta keep another class their build in check. Thinking DH and Tempest with group reflects previous patch for example. As in if counters to a class get nerfed, that class can get to strong, without being changed itself. Or the other way around, a class becoming useful, because it counters a popular build.

to be honest the only really strong thing about reapers are their shroud, if you can kyte/survive the shroud the necro has 0 chance
Druids healing and perma daze is a bit off the top i agree, needs a bit of adjustment, plus the new pets are just stupidly strong, most druids beat other ppl in 1v1 not because of their skills, no because they just spam heals and let their pets do all the dmg
Daredevil, i mean come on, i strong hit and the DrD is so low he has to back out and reset or might even be dead, by your logic that hammer is a close range melee weapon it needs sustain and survivability then why are thieves so squishy (I know why I’m just making a point here)
I think the biggest error Anet ever made was to put invuln skills in this game, the warri i can understand, he should have endure pain as a skill, not trait, just like the guards renewed focus is fine since you can’t attack or do anything while invuln, but every other classes invuln or “get out of jail free” card/trait should be removed and the power creep tuned done, adjust skills to be balanced in dmg and we would have a more healthy skill based game
but that ain’t ever gonna happen

Yashuoa.9527:

DHawk.2687:

mov.1246:

Scrapper got enough nerfs in the past, u just need to learn how to play against them.
Scrapper are weak against: condi, hard cc, kite. We must have a lot of blocks, invuln and evades because we lack condi cleanse, stability, armor, and range attacks.
The only thing that is patethic, is that you whine in the engi forum that we are too strong in your oppinion.

tldr; L2P

It’s funny reading this, I main a thief and read you saying you lack condi cleanse, stab, armor and range that’s why you need a lot of invuln, blocks etc
well i do not have any stab, bad condi cleanse, a 2 sec invuln noone takes, less armor and less range
so why don’t we buff thief to have all the sustain scrapper has? since that is your way of argumenting about the current state of scrapper ^^

Your arguments both dont hold. Scrapper doesnt have the burst Daredevil has, nor the mobility. Besides Daredevils are more about avoiding dmg, rather than blocking or healing it back up.
As weird as it sounds, Daredevils dont have less range than Scrapper.

Anyway, Scrapper needs a playstyle change to be a bit less good in 1 on 1 and a bit better in support.

Currently Scrapper is more allround with smaller weaknesses spread out, rather than really specialised in one area, with a big weakness in another.
They are build well for 1 on 1, which raises complaints.
Becoming more supportive and less powerful in 1 on 1 could fix issues, without nerfing them into useless.

scrapper might not have a DrD burst yes, but what good is a burst if the enemy player has 1 to 2 get out of jail free cards with invuln skills/autoproc invuln traits,
consistant high dmg with good tankyness if much more viable in 1v1 or outnumbered situations than 1 to max 3 good burst if you just end up doing 0 dmg due to silly autoprocs
and yes DrD has less range, unless you consider wasting all your gap closers at once for range, which still isn’t ranged dmg, it’s a gap closer
Hammer simply does too much dmg for what it does, there are enough engi players out there that aggree that the hammer makes every other set obsolete
I also like playing hammer, for the playstyle, but i feel cheesy as f doing so cause it’s simply easy mode on the scrapper, the dmg on most skills is very high yet the CD are really low, meaning you mostly don’t even need much more than the hammer and the heal turret to win a match
nerfing it’s dmg down and/or increasing CD would make rifle more viable as power set and open up more diversity amongs builds

mov.1246:

Scrapper got enough nerfs in the past, u just need to learn how to play against them.
Scrapper are weak against: condi, hard cc, kite. We must have a lot of blocks, invuln and evades because we lack condi cleanse, stability, armor, and range attacks.
The only thing that is patethic, is that you whine in the engi forum that we are too strong in your oppinion.

tldr; L2P

It’s funny reading this, I main a thief and read you saying you lack condi cleanse, stab, armor and range that’s why you need a lot of invuln, blocks etc
well i do not have any stab, bad condi cleanse, a 2 sec invuln noone takes, less armor and less range
so why don’t we buff thief to have all the sustain scrapper has? since that is your way of argumenting about the current state of scrapper ^^

No I’m not crying out for thief buffs but i think some of the ppl in this forum like to overdo it a bit, scrapper is a very forgiving class to play, like it or not, that is why there are so many around nowadays,
yes it is true that hammer is kinda the only good power based weapon, but it simply does too much too good, it basically combines defense in offense meaning you as opponent are screwed no matter what you do (at least as power based player, not talking condi pleb :P)
the risk reward system with the scrapper is mainly relativly low risk combined with high reward
Anyhow, i know that most ppl will disagree, not because I’m wrong, but because they don’t want there easy mode to be nerfed, which is fine
I’m just pointing out some sillyness in argumentation and stating my opinion

instead of buffing the actual dmg of backstab they could change the way it actually does dmg to the enemy, implementing a system where the backstab ingores the armor value of the enemy but also reducing the dmg it has now might fix the issue, what I’m trying to say is that it does a consistent amount of dmg no matter what you hit, e.g. making backstab take 40% of the enemies hp pool no matter what their armor is, that would mean that it has good dmg accross the board but won’t one hit ppl since it doesn’t really scale with power as much. E.G new backstab hits a 12k hp thief, after backstab the thief has about 6-8k hp depending on how strong we want to make BS, fighting a guard with 20k hp, the BS would reduce his hp to about 12-15k
and so on, this way BS would not onehit ppl or thieves and mesmers accross the board but will do consistant good dmg no matter what you fight, since atm the power creep is so high and the risk to actually land a good backstab is very high but the reward is not even sub par, e.g. why does a Rev Hammer 2 or Ranger LB 2 or DH LB 2 do 9-12k dmg, but a BS that needs so much more to actually pull off 6-max9 (without silly sigil build + might etc)
the best solution imho would be to reduce the power creep of every class overall, but they would also reduce thieves dmg, which would mean it’s in the same state as it is now, just everything hits for less.

that’s the thing, for D/p, staff and S/d, maybe even S/p the patch was relativly fine, even tho the higher aa dmg imho is not that big of a deal, since every class kittens out invulns, immunes etc 100dmg more per hit (average) does not make a big difference, for me e.g., I play dd, no improvement what so ever, the biggest thing is that they moved fleet shadow into hidden thief, a trait that would HINDER dd effectiveness, Acrobatic is still just a weaker form of DrD, TECHNICALLY our condi cleanse on SA is nice, clearing dmg dealing condi’s first, BUT you have no way of clearing weakness, which will f you up bad, or slow, or vuln, etc. (only using sa for condi cleanse!) meaning that it is a downgrade from what it was before, second having CiS as GM is pathetic, every other class has falling dmg as minor, we have it as GM, plus that and blind on stealth is NOT worth a GM slot imho! as DD you used to play with SA for the condi clear, the blind on stealth and the regen in stealth and I for my part used fleet shadows as well, a combo no longer possible to us, yet something almost necessary for our survival, we have absolutely no utility on your weaponset, CnD is hard to hit, takes up half of your ini, is a high risk reward skill AND is weaker than shadow shot on D/p, yet our only way to gain stealth from our set alone.
we have no way to interrupt making one ranger using rapid fire a problem since it easly does up to 15k dmg, something you don’t easly hit with backstab anymore fyi
etc etc etc, the whole balance is around dp, a set a lot of us don’t like but are forced to use because every other dagger set is pathetic compared to it
adding in the fact that every other class does NOT need to be stealthed or behind the target to do massive dmg, eg rev hammer 2, s3. DH lb2, ranger lb2 etc
next thing is all the passive we need to get through while having none of our own (well now in acro 2sec evade) Nowadays stealth seems more like a hinderance in combat than anything else, and since so many classes can just reveal you know it doesn’t make any sense to even play a build based on stealth, HELL why does SR have a cd of 60, is a big kill me sign and reveal when you leave or get knocked (i understand the knocked out for counterplay yes) BUT the engi drone is a mobile SR with NO reveale or counter option, in addition to that an on demand daze and only has 40sec cd, yes it’s an elite but it makes sr absolute imo
there are a lot of issues with thief, most not because of the class itself considering only dp, but mostly other weaponsets and the pathetic amount of ways thieves are countered atm because of all the QQ about thieves being op

anyway these are just my 2 cents, i lost track a few times writing this sorry, long day
pls keep the flaming down guys ok

Choppy.4183:

DHawk.2687:

Choppy.4183:

Arewn.2368:

I don’t get it…
Not only did we barely get nerfed, while other classes did, we also received what is arguable the best end of the stick regarding buffs.
It doesn’t look like any other class got buffed more then warrior this patch.
Not to mention there’s no way you’ve had the chance to even try the changes, nor has enough time passed to see what new builds will emerge or what changes to the meta will happen.

Yeah, you’re right that he was being overly dramatic and premature. I’d put necro and thief buffs above warrior by a lot though.

Ultimately, it’s still too early to say.

thief buff is useless, so what if the thief does about 100more dmg on an autoattack, you hardly even notice it, acro is still useless, the other weaponsets are in an even worse place now and sustain hasn’t improved one bit. i could do 4k dmg with autohits, who cares if thieves get oneshotted by almost everything and EVERY class has some sort of invuln frame. thief is in the same state as prepatch.

Eh, the comment was about who was buffed more, not the end state of the class.

Also, iirc, thief sword got a 30% speed buff on the auto. That’s a significant buff right there. And, while I agree the fragility of thief is a problem in large fights or on a point, an invuln state for thief would be broken as hell.

It would be, thief shouldn’t have one. But at this point of the game there is no need for a thief, it’s best trait is running away, every other aspect of the class can be fulfilled by other classes better, hence the amount of buffs are irrelevant if they have no impact what so ever

Anomaly.7612:

Ha! Did you do a bug report on this and talk to a gm?

nah I’m taking a break, after this let down of a patch i didn’t feel like it ^^
and to be honest, as if anyone at anet gives a sh** xD

This is awesome, they give Basi Venom “unblockable” which is fine and all (should have been here earlier imho) but I’ve encountered what i hope to be a bug and have tested it out multiple times
if you apply the venom and actually hit an enemy with the venom who is blocking during the attack the dmg will go through, yes, but the venom won’t, yet the stack is lost, meaning you do not get the stun off, just the dmg. In addition to that if you are invisible and trying to land a backstab, the game will do an autoattack instead. I’ve tested this out with friends multiple times and it keeps happening to me at least 8/10 times
Meaning that basi venom atm if bugs out does NOT stun a blocking foe and will ONLY hit him with 2 auto attacks, meaning useless 90% of the time unless he’s at 5% hp lols

Choppy.4183:

Arewn.2368:

I don’t get it…
Not only did we barely get nerfed, while other classes did, we also received what is arguable the best end of the stick regarding buffs.
It doesn’t look like any other class got buffed more then warrior this patch.
Not to mention there’s no way you’ve had the chance to even try the changes, nor has enough time passed to see what new builds will emerge or what changes to the meta will happen.

Yeah, you’re right that he was being overly dramatic and premature. I’d put necro and thief buffs above warrior by a lot though.

Ultimately, it’s still too early to say.

thief buff is useless, so what if the thief does about 100more dmg on an autoattack, you hardly even notice it, acro is still useless, the other weaponsets are in an even worse place now and sustain hasn’t improved one bit. i could do 4k dmg with autohits, who cares if thieves get oneshotted by almost everything and EVERY class has some sort of invuln frame. thief is in the same state as prepatch.

hey, i have a charakter that has “Spark” Soulbound without ever equiping it to the Charakter, Anet won’t “unbind” it for me so i am curious, what happenes when i delete the char that Spark is soulbound to, will i be able to sell it then or will i have to destroy spark? Only answer if you know the answer for sure or if you know another way to be able to sell Spark without having to craft the legendary, thanks for your help

fumcheg.1936:

Spartacus.5243:

Just lol @ these sad kents complaining about thief. If you kittens would get good and play staff and my build. you wouldnt even ask for a buff lmao. im doing amazing.

can we already get this spammer banned?

Considering that all it takes to kill him is one backstab or one true shot
Funny how noobs hype staff, just like the noobs that call DH traps op, both are sets/builds that only work well/op against noobs ^^

lxghostxl.5097:

EvilSardine.9635:

Revenant hammer 2 is one of the biggest wildcards in the game actually. You can have two even mirror teams with evenly skilled players fight each other but if you were to swap in a hammer Revenant then that team would win hands down every single time.

A really bad player who just made a zerker revenant can stumble into a fight and do 10-14k damage every 2-3 seconds and win his side the fight with a single button press. Hell, randomly throw in hammer 3 and 5 along with 4k-5k auto attacks and it’s even worse.

They need to nerf this FOTM build everyone is running and buff everything else because right now it’s so easy to play Revenant is silly.

It’s sad that Revenant players want to be lazy and don’t want to learn any other builds.

I disagree on the revenant difficulty. When a hammer revenant shows up in ranks, they get focused down. Even in wvw it is not a one hit wonder like players say it is. Now a days you will see tons of group that have support healer class and droods can even dps anx heals. I dont think a serkef rev is that easy and this claims has to be proven because thinking and doing are 2 different things. A serker rev is very fragile and hammer is the only viable weapkn for range and bursting coz it does not work any other way, if we buff all other skills then it will trully make a rev an easy to play class because they are now even in melee with other classes. A burst thief alaways run after a rev in team fights or a scrapper with his buddies. Making hammer useless does not balance the game at all and most people are just not used to playing against rev build. I would ask you to put up a video on how eay it is as rev against good players coz nub playing against nubs does not prove any point. I play rev all the time and never felt it is as easy as you say it is. Wonder why people wont even dont complain about those bursty thief that kills every 15 sec whle rev needs planing, waiting, and hoping no one knows how to dodge or stay out of range and use terain. Slow attack and almost 16k hp with use of energy and per utility skills require tons of it.

Honestly that post was pathetic, Rev is one of the most strongest classes in the game, if not the strongest, in every fight, the team that has no rev or fewer will loose 9/10times hands down! Heavy armor, high base hp, blocks evades etc everywhere, insane dmg multipliers etc
Looking at hammer 2 (last time I checked its dmg coefficient was higher than on the backstab which is single target, from behind and out of stealth, hammer 2 is AoE, at Long range and can hit multiple times and that every 2 sec, imagine a DH can use true shot as aoe and hit 2 or 3 times (the same target)) even hammers auto attack does too much dmg, easy 4-6 k on every shot is just pathetic
And you claiming thief kills ppl every 15 seconds makes me cry, thief is somewhat the most useless class atm, every other class can do what the thief can, only better! Except for running away, thx dare devil.
Rev needs a lot of changes! E.g. S3 doesn’t get to be evade, 7 hits that cannot be interrupted, follow you, grant might and even follow through a port like blink or shadow step is pathetic, take away the invuln frame it basically gives and it’s fine
Glints heal needs to be more visible, most ppl have no clue it’s on and it’ll easily heal the rev full while still dealing a lot of dmg
Than when playing glint, being able to stack easy 15 stacks might, fury and speed while not even in fight, so your first engage will defiantly hit like 3 trucks is unfair considering thief e.g. Got nerfed when you got might in stealth, you just get it permanently without even loosing energy, pathetic.
Sword auto attack and hammer aa need to be toned down a bit, hammers range shouldn’t be 1200
Hammer 2 energy cost increase, definitely cd increase and range decrease
The attack does way too much dmg in a too big area to be considered balanced
Being able to one hit players with one skill at that range is insane, and you all know it happens in wvw all the time, I don’t care if some of you easy mode nubs disagree
I’m not saying every single change I said needs to be implemented
But rev in its current state is too strong, final.

Terissimo I fully agree with you and wanted to say thanks for that S/D build you posted on youtube, that build has been a lot of fun and kinda sorta reminds me of the old dd 1vx fights i used to love so much
just hope they make my fav set viable again, but what really needs to happen is to tone down the power creep, most aoe skills hit harded than a BS (which is as we all know, single target, requires stealth and has to be from behind to do most dmg, well i can just hit 2 on ranger and deal almost twice the dmg on 1500 range, but yeah..

1. don’t trigger the trap..
2. double dodge through the traps
3. block the traps with Shield or the wrench thingy (sorry don’t play engi^^)
4. stay at range
5. condi
6. kyte
7. use the elixer that makes you mini inside the traps
8. stunbreak ot of the traps
and so on, traps are patheticly easy to counter as soon as you know the mechanics

They did not ruin mantras, they fixed a bug making them perform different than intended
I’m not saying 100% aggree with the mantra change
but noone ruined it, it was a fix

yes it was a trait, WAS
now it was standard
and with the increased power due to the patch it was too strong
accept it

would you rather have 4 bounces and the base dmg cut in half??
my god one nerf and you are already crying for a buff

nekretaal.6485:

I don’t think a thief should be 1v1 anybody (maybe Mesmer)

Stick to decamping empty points and +1ing team fights.

then why even have a thief, other classes can do the same thing

besides the fact that you cannot permastealth unless you always have all your stealth skills on cd and use up your ini all the time
in addition to that you cannot do it while infight because you cannot weaponswap all teh time for pistol#5 shortbow#2
plus it only works when playing x/p
(yes d#2 will also grant stealth but bow works better)

well yeah, i can pick off the squishy targets at 50% hp
so can a ranger, or a mesmer
since most mesmer run rune of the traveler they don’t need an extra blink, they go stealth for 6 sec, run over, burst him down, blink out, done
same thing as thief, only thief uses up half his ini on the way there

Azure The Heartless.3261:

I lost to a thief, therefore they are fine.

Sorry, OP isnt enough to convince me.

now ain’t that logics hu ^^

Azure The Heartless.3261:

DHawk.2687:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Thieves now have to work harder for wins vs. any class, because they have only had defense applied to them when they are in stealth.

Since traits no longer allow a thief to spec for some mitigation, they must either spec glassy with high dps or tanky with low dps.

Compared to other classes that got resistances and mitigation built in that synergise well with their current playstyles, thieves have gotten comparatively little to help them balance against the general dps increases.

To maintain current effectiveness, the thief players need to either get better regarding tactics.

fyi i have more hp, more power and more crit dmg now than before the patch (22k hp to be exact)
i die in 3 hits, before the patch that NEVER happened unless a thief or warrior got you good
but now everything is a major threat to the thief
and even tho i have 600 more power and 30% more crit dmg my backstabs do 3-4k less damage than pre patch
anything else?

we’re dying in three hits because that power buff you have was taken directly out of your mitgation with the “traits no longer give stats” change. You may be stronger but other classes got both active mitigation buffs AND the power buff, so in the end thieves are ones getting blown up if they’re not stealthed.

yes, technically the thief got a slight dmg buff, a nerf to everything else
1st the dmg buff wasn’t needed
2nd almost every class was buffed more/got more out of the patch than the thief
3rd the best thing thief can do atm is run away, e.g. my medi guard outperforms the thief in every categorie besiedes stealth and mobility, that is just pathetic
but ppl keep crying about the thief being op, and the devs don’t give a kitten about the class, just check the patch notes, our traits are mostly still useless (best example acrobatic)
our sustain is non existant
gg anet you fixed the bugs we had in our traps, fyi the skills never used because they don’t benefit in any way
anet DESTROYED build variaty
honestly, if you love thief, keep playing it and relearn and get used to running away out of almost every fight since you are almost always at a disadvantage, or go play mesmer, he can do everything we can, just better, plus he has a shorter cd blink
instastealth
more stealth uptime
invuln
more hp
etc

DarknesSushi.5876:

since 2011?….i think what like 8 or 9 maybe?

when are we getting our reward for being anets Bit**
I’m sick and tired of noobs crying thief is op, pre patch he was imo in a good state, not too strong not too weak, and honestly if you knew how it was pathetically easy to kill a thief pre patch
now it’s just faceroll, every other class can do what we can, just better (besides stealth)
hell my guard is better in roaming than the thief atm
but yeah thief is so kittenn op, anet pls nerf us some more so the crybabies get their sugar

DarknesSushi.5876:

DHawk.2687:

he’s probably crying because anet took away the 4th bounce from mirror blade, like 99% of the mesmer community

imagine if was the trait that give 30% more damage if the enemy its not casting skill…..

the mesmer is still really strong, take 1 toy away and have them cry for weeks
how many times have we been nerfed now???

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Thieves now have to work harder for wins vs. any class, because they have only had defense applied to them when they are in stealth.

Since traits no longer allow a thief to spec for some mitigation, they must either spec glassy with high dps or tanky with low dps.

Compared to other classes that got resistances and mitigation built in that synergise well with their current playstyles, thieves have gotten comparatively little to help them balance against the general dps increases.

To maintain current effectiveness, the thief players need to either get better regarding tactics.

fyi i have more hp, more power and more crit dmg now than before the patch (22k hp to be exact)
i die in 3 hits, before the patch that NEVER happened unless a thief or warrior got you good
but now everything is a major threat to the thief
and even tho i have 600 more power and 30% more crit dmg my backstabs do 3-4k less damage than pre patch
anything else?

Gabriell.4856:

Dahkeus.8243:

Thieves got taken down a notch with the big balance patch, but it’s mainly because of how much other classes improved, particularly mesmers who thieves used to counter pretty handily.

Partially true. Don’t mind buffing other classes but they nerfed the thief at the same time.

Shadow Embrace took a hard nerf. Cloaked in Shadow would of been nice but they made it a GM! No one will take it over SR. Let’s not get started with the Acro nerfs.

If they didn’t nerf Acro and SA lines, Thief would be in a lot better position.

don’t forget that the only weapon combo that has any chance of success in the long run is dp

Tux kitten inguin.3049:

Can’t agree there. Directly after the patch I also had some problems. But right now, i am at the same point I have been before the patch. There are players from every class ich can beat 1v1 and also the other way around.
Thief may have less sustain than other classes, but that’s what the stealth and ports are for. I still like the thief at pvp. It has never been a face tank class and it never will be.
The point we still see them at every single match in the esl, is another sign its still a nice class and inside the meta.

you can’t compare pvp to wvw
in pvp thief is ok, not good not bad, just ok
but in wvw thief is just a joke

Rampage needs a damage reduction
it’s just silly

he’s probably crying because anet took away the 4th bounce from mirror blade, like 99% of the mesmer community

I’d like to see it reworked, not removed
(no i don’t use that rune)

I know it’s dumb, but anet made countless traits GM that aren’t even worth a minor state
giving the bounce to a master trait or lower will just result in mesmer being called op again
because we all know anet won’t adjust the traits in the near future imho if you add it back in, make it a GM trait and maybe add something like increased radius on GS#3

but that only helps to a certain point, let’s look at shooters, battlefield for example
your “skill” in that game is messured by your ingame lv, your kdr and your skill number (which is totally random bs btw^^)
but the thing is, stats are simply put just stats, they don’t truelly reflect another persons skill or lv
let’s say I’m a pro player and leave the game for 1 year and come back, my stats are the same, but my skill will be pretty low
and so on

baylock.1703:

Necrotize gets me could we get trait to add 1 bounce to mirror blade

technically a good idea, but i would make it a GM in the same tree as PU
to give players the insentive to not use this trait anymore or rather said increase the variaty of builds
since 1 bounce doesn’t sound like much you have to look at the damage increase that 1 extra bounce gives you, someone calculated it above if I’m not mistaking
since other classes have somewhat useless GM like thief e.g. gain 1 ini on weaponswap, woopdidoo ^^ I think it would make for a good balance

eversince the patch i left my main after 6 weeks of struggling to make it viable again
now I just play to see if they’ll balance it again, farming and trying out new classes and builds

ps might go back to medi guard

Lunatic.4928:

Putting my two cents here to not have to make another topic:

The ‘bug’ the mantras had, at least for Mantra of Resolve, was perfect. My build revolves around this Mantra (and torch cleanses). Honestly, I don’t care about any other mantras and if they get nerfed or buffed. But this condi cleanse during the ‘bug’ was essential. You couldn’t repeatedly cleanse yourself of 2 condis because you still had that 20 second cd (and an almost 3 second charge time) but more of strategically using it though. Now it’s complete and utter junk. Give some thought into reducing the CD or changing this mantra back to the ‘bug’ style.

yes my thought as well, make it individual for the mantras instead of simply changing all of them, having them adjusted to what their purpouse is would balance the class better than just flat out copy pasting a nerf throughout all mantras

@Gabriell just let the troll troll
he’s probably just kitten because he died to a thief and has to act up now as if he knew anything about our class
We’ve had this over and over on the forums

tbh you are acting like, just because your team won against a team that had 3 mesmers it shows the state of the mesmer class
there are so many variables, maybe the mesmers were bad, maybe your team was very good, maybe the other players in the mesmers team didn’t ptfo
maybe the mesmers didn’t care about capping flags and rather killed ppl tdm like
it would be the same if i said, i just lost against a necro, hmmm that must mean the necro is really strong and that’s why he won

Photoloss.4817:

PowerBottom.5796:

Ele not getting nerfed is weird, but I think they wanna use ele as a baseline now

Lol good one, where is our +50% damage buff on all skills? Where is our ability to support teammates both offensively and defensively in one build, without ruining our damage output? Where is our viable WvW zerg damage build? Where is our compensation for the burning changes, they didn’t even adjust staff auto?

are you kittenn kidding me xD

I honestly think the nerf to Mirror Blade was justified

reddie.5861:

did u ever play thief ur self? with new patch ur just beyond useless in WvW. like someone mentioned we are only good for flipping camps and sentry for the rest we cant do a jackkitten.

go with the blob? ur a melee who cant even handle 2 hits
use short bow your range is so short if u do 1 mistake as in step to much forward to early your dead..
thief is horrible nerfed in this latest patch none the less i keep playing it but dont act like thief is full of joy FOTM class..

the truth has been spoken, hail hydra

sorry but what is ToT? ^^
I’m bad with shortcuts

I switched back to my medi guard just to figure out, it’s better than thief in everything except for mobility (not counting stealth ^^)
I felt like anet punshed me in the face…

mimec.6719:

Dear Anet,

Why should I give you money for xpac if it is going to go toward more BS like this meta?
This condi stacking and God tier Ele and Mes classes have made this game so miserable to play.
Additionally, you have the audacity to ask your players for money to make more of this?
These changes were made to promote more build diversity? Not much diversity when every other player is Mes or Ele running the same copy/paste they found off the internet.

No thanks.

I’ll take my money elsewhere.

If you are leaving guild wars 2, may I have your stuff?
pretty please with sugar on top

Same goes for me, I love the D/D playstyle, but the patch lynched that as well
I’m sick and tired of having to be so extremly carefull in every fight not to make 1 single mistake or instadie (NOTE i have 22k hp and still drop within 2 sec) and basically having to be A LOT more skilled than my opponent or the ods of winning are pathetically small
the dmg is abismal and the sustain is non existant, 2 of my 5 weaponskills are somewhat useless or badly designed and the traits hardly help out at all

I stopped playing my thief and went back to my medi guard, I felt like I’ve been punshed in the face by anet after noticing that outnumbered fights are a piece of cake, the damage spike, dps and burst damage is higher on my guard and the sustain is a lot better
the only thing the thief is good at atm is running away
GG Anet!!