Guild Wars 2

Obscure One.4357:

Dan.2940:

So please, explain to me how you know what needs to me nerfed, and WHY you think it needs to be nerfed, because right now it looks like you just want thieves to stop being annoying, even though you can kill them easily. Which to me, doesn’t sound like a valid reason for a nerf.

Not looking for a nerf. Looking for a complete overhaul from the ground up on the entirety of that infantile class.

Obscure One.4357:

The problem is not what the thief can do it’s what the thief can’t do.

Why do thieves spam stealth and heartseeker/unload/clusterbomb? Because the devs designed this class so !#$%ing poorly that this is all they can do. Don’t point at the player and say “oh you just have no skill, and that’s why you play a thief.” you need to point at ANet and say “oh you just have no skill, and that’s why you made the thief.”

The class is terribad, so bad in fact that it can only do one thing well (so well it borders on exploitation of game mechanics causing thread after thread of “QQ nerf thief!”) and be about as effective as a pile of hot sick horse !#$% at literally anything else.

The whole class is over-specialized to the point of absolute infantile simplicity, that’s the problem. Saying you want ANet to nerf stealth and HS spam is taking away the only !#$%ing thing the class can do, which is why Thief zealots will troll you every time you mention a nerf to spamming and stealth.

Problem: the whole Thief class stinks worse than a week old diaper wrapped in burnt hair and crammed inside a road killed skunk that got hit by a gravel truck four or five times. Save for one hyper specialized, game breaking, and childishly simple play style, the thief is a horrible class.

Solution: kill it and burn it…or just kill it with fire…then like the mighty Phoenix let it rise from it’s ashes as a valid, well rounded, and challenging class to play.

If you wanted to understand where I was coming from you could’ve actually just read this thread so I didn’t need to repost old news.

Ah, i had yet to see this post of yours, i had assumed you were like the many other thread posters complaining for a thief nerf…. I was defending the class because nerfing the class the way it is now would pretty much destroy the class. A total rework of the class, as long as it’s done the right way, would be interesting, but i doubt Arenanet would scrap what they have and make thieves work completely different.

Obscure One.4357:

Dan.2940:

Obscure One.4357:

Dan.2940:

You’re quick to judge a class by a few popular builds, there are many builds that don’t rely on stealth.

Dan.2940:

Thieves are FAR from OP, and in most cases/builds, stealth is the only thing keeping a thief alive.

So many builds don’t use stealth to stay alive only most of them.

Truly you have a dizzying intellect.

EDIT

Taking my sentences out of context would make me sound confusing wouldnt it? I was first referring to glass builds, which rely on stealth, then i was making note that there are tons of builds that don’t rely on stealth. If you were to nerf the builds that DO rely on stealth, you destroy those builds all together.

There’s no context presented for which I could have removed them from. You made two conflicting statements, I pointed it out and now your attempting to defend yourself from an indefensible position.

Now, if I may provide you with crucial information that all the typical thief zealots always assume when anyone calls for a nerf to that class. I never once said OP or that I have any problem with fighting a thief…go ahead…scroll up…snoop around. I main Engineer, I shred thieves like a twinkie tossed into a fat camp, but it took months of dedicated play to learn to counter thieves…and when I say thieves I mean the only ones that’re a threat, the big damage ones that constantly stealth. A thief I come across better !@#$%ing stealth and do so frequently or he’s dead faster than you can say loot bag. If it doesn’t stealth and doesn’t do massive damage and its a thief, its what we call a “bad thief” and I’m sorry but I won’t consider sucking a viable build.

Now, the principal is it should take a sizable amount of skill and complex understanding of a class to do something that requires the same to counter. Well as I mentioned I was replicating the results of the highest DPS build in probably 6 hours of play, and by 10 hours was doing it consistently, and by 12 hours I was straight wrecking kids…but apparently everyone who plays hot join is trash has no skill and doesn’t count…

What are you even talking about? You took a quote from one response i had, and then a quote from another response and merged them together… In one case i was referring to glass thieves, in the other i was referring to thieves in general…

Why are you here complaining about thieves if you are able to easily kill them? If they are no problem for you, why does it bother you so much that you believe they need to be nerfed?

Unless i am missing something, from the guy that played thief for 14 hours and seems to know the class inside and out, what you’re saying is comparable to me saying:

" I have no problem fighting engis, they are easy to counter, but they have too many kits, nerf please."

There are 2 reasons that “thief zealots” as you call them, like to defend their class…

1. In most cases, they know their class the best (most experience playing thief) and everyone complaining about the class has yet to play it, or has played it for a short period of time. You main Engi right? So if a bunch of random people on the forums who have little to no experience on an engi started shouting that engis were OP and needed a nerf, just because they got rolled by one or can’t beat them, how would you react to that?

2. They obviously want to defend the class they play the most.

Now for me, i’m defending thieves because I have seen way too many of these posts complaining or overreacting on how thieves need a nerf. I said it before, but i play 5 different classes, I’m not biased to thieves. I PREVIOUSLY mained thief and didn’t consider ever playing anything else, since then i have changed, but i still know the class really well.

So please, explain to me how you know what needs to me nerfed, and WHY you think it needs to be nerfed, because right now it looks like you just want thieves to stop being annoying, even though you can kill them easily. Which to me, doesn’t sound like a valid reason for a nerf.

Obscure One.4357:

Dan.2940:

You’re quick to judge a class by a few popular builds, there are many builds that don’t rely on stealth.

Dan.2940:

Thieves are FAR from OP, and in most cases/builds, stealth is the only thing keeping a thief alive.

So many builds don’t use stealth to stay alive only most of them.

Truly you have a dizzying intellect.

EDIT

Taking my sentences out of context would make me sound confusing wouldnt it? I was first referring to glass builds, which rely on stealth, then i was making note that there are tons of builds that don’t rely on stealth. If you were to nerf the builds that DO rely on stealth, you destroy those builds all together.

sbr.8170:

I am glad it is that high, I was afraid of what would happen in WvW if everyone was able to portal everyone else everywhere. What a nightmare.

They made it clear that the gun would be unusable in WvW and sPvP, so it would really only be useful for jump puzzles and pve stuff.

Removing the leap finisher would once again nerf thieves to the ground.
Increasing the amount of initiative on heartseeker would be the easiest fix, it would prevent people from spamming 2, and allow for a shorter stealth duration… HOWEVER, even doing that risks nerfing the weapon set drastically.

Well there is a vendor that sells Experimental Teleportation Guns, which do the exact same thing but are really cheap to buy:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Experimental_Teleportation_Gun
I don’t understand why you would spend more than you have to for a one-time-use object, i thought the portal gun would be unlimited uses.

Xenon.4537:

I think the simplest fix would be to put a 5 second icd on the smoke field leap finisher proc.

Thieves don’t have cooldowns, increasing the initiative use on that skill would nerf D/P S/P and P/P thieves into the ground. Then you’ll get thieves complaining that their class needs a huge buff.

Obscure One.4357:

Dan.2940:

More people complaining about thieves stealth?
For the people complaining about it, have you actually played the Thief class?
Let me answer that for you.

No, no you haven’t.

You are asking Anet to nerf a class that you have little to no knowledge about?

Mesmers should be nerfed, and not have clones or phantasms, and guardians? Lose the virtues. Oh, what about warriors? They should be nerfed because 100 blades hits too hard.

Thieves are FAR from OP, and in most cases/builds, stealth is the only thing keeping a thief alive. If you have played the class, you would know that thieves are easily counterable, even if stealthing. Please STOP these whining threads on how thieves are OP, stealth is OP, remove stealth, remove thieves, rework the class…. You either need to get better at the game, or play the class to actually learn to counter the class, because in all honesty, it’s really not hard.

The same counter argument to the same argument. I nearly didn’t need to even read the post to know what it said.

Your ignoring the design flaws of the class in your admission of them. A visible thief quickly becomes a dead thief if he stays that way for any great length of time. It’s the basis for the class’ entire defensive mechanic. When I come out of stealth its when I’m immobilizing or basilisk stunning them in a smoke field off of a Backstab. If I cant get that setup, I don’t engage, and this no-skill-required class will let me stay in stealth until the end of time if that’s how long I need to wait for the opening. Everything else is just a blurr of HS spamming it which normally goes 8-9k backstab, ~4k heartseeker, ~5k heartseeker, ~6k heartseeker, ~7k heartseeker, and then I break off because that last HS rolls in as the revealed debuff comes off which puts me back in stealth (smoke fields for the win). If they survived that spike, one more backstab for 8-9k normally puts them down and then I refuge stomp. If initiative is ever looking like a problem I just activate a Signet and get at least another HS out of it (Signet Use trait).

You want to know how I know this is broken? I straight decimate people with it and I have a grand total of about 14 hours of play experience with the class. The skill ceiling is so low to master, yet the skill floor to counter it is so high that the problem is obvious yet time and time again the thief zealots show up waving their pitchforks and chanting its fine and everyone who loses to a thief is just a nub that needs to learn to play.

The class does one thing extremely well, and that’s be a petty one-trick-pony troll. Oh look…the thief stealthed…oh look he backstabbed again…oh look he’s spamming 2 again….oh look he stealthed yet again…oh look he’s using unload now…f’n troll.

I took the advice that you and those like you give and played the class and mastered it’s most optimal DPS build in one Saturday afternoon. The class is an unchallenging licence to troll, nothing more. The sooner you thief zealots realize that, the sooner we can band together and fix the !@#%ing class and its myriad of bad designs.

You’re quick to judge a class by a few popular builds, there are many builds that don’t rely on stealth. Doesn’t mean that you should nerf stealth when there is an option to use it or not. You mastered 1 DPS build in one day? How does that work? You playing against a bunch of low levels or hotjoin heroes? Any decent player won’t be easily ganked by a DPS thief build. That’s like me playing the class you normally play, beating a bunch of people who aren’t good at the game and me coming here to say that i mastered the class and it needs a nerf. It’s quite obvious that, unless you’re some kind of ESports pro, you went against less than decent players.

I’d love to see footage of your mastery with this class!

You say that people like me say that you guys are noobs because you can’t counter thieves, but if you’re seriously complaining that thieves stealth is OP and is design flawed, you must have been ran over by enough thieves to complain about it right?
I have 5 level 80’s i’m not biased to thieves, i just KNOW the class enough to understand that it’s not OP, and with thieves running glass builds, easily counterable. So i mean, if you’re having problems with them, you can only see why we believe you are inexperienced players. What class do you main? I’d love to know.

Aeolus.3615:

Dan.2940:

More people complaining about thieves stealth?
For the people complaining about it, have you actually played the Thief class?
Let me answer that for you.

No, no you haven’t.

You are asking Anet to nerf a class that you have little to no knowledge about?

Mesmers should be nerfed, and not have clones or phantasms, and guardians? Lose the virtues. Oh, what about warriors? They should be nerfed because 100 blades hits too hard.

Thieves are FAR from OP, and in most cases/builds, stealth is the only thing keeping a thief alive. If you have played the class, you would know that thieves are easily counterable, even if stealthing. Please STOP these whining threads on how thieves are OP, stealth is OP, remove stealth, remove thieves, rework the class…. You either need to get better at the game, or play the class to actually learn to counter the class, because in all honesty, it’s really not hard.

There are more evil damage sources in wariror than 100b, i kinda agree with you, as thiefs need this mobility and at the momment thief is far from being the OP class from the game, one thing that makes tiefs reset combat or retreat is the damage players can make to them as example guardian with hammer 5 to lock thiefs and then change to 2h sword and blend, with a zerk+valk build for sure will kill or down most of the thiefs.

Now the problem is outside the 2h weapon set and with a bunker build (~25k health ~3.4k armor)i dont have many counter to it otherwise just being a punch bag and eventyally die due meditations or shouts being recharging and im w/o any defenses but that is the gw2 mechanics thats forces professions to use more some weapons than others IMO, hope the add of new traits and skills on further versions will solve this.

P.S sorry about the bad English.

My statement about warriors, mesmers, and guardians was just sarcasm to show how the whiners on the forums sound like. I did not mean for that line to be serious at all.

All classes can counter a thief, so there should be no excuse about having low HP or toughness which leads to a thief 1 Hitting you. If you decide to specc glassy, you can’t expect to stay alive for a long time, thieves that backstab for huge damage are also glassy. It’s true that thieves can be glassy and have stealth to protect them, but AoEs work wonders in those situations.

More people complaining about thieves stealth?
For the people complaining about it, have you actually played the Thief class?
Let me answer that for you.

No, no you haven’t.

You are asking Anet to nerf a class that you have little to no knowledge about?

Mesmers should be nerfed, and not have clones or phantasms, and guardians? Lose the virtues. Oh, what about warriors? They should be nerfed because 100 blades hits too hard.

Thieves are FAR from OP, and in most cases/builds, stealth is the only thing keeping a thief alive. If you have played the class, you would know that thieves are easily counterable, even if stealthing. Please STOP these whining threads on how thieves are OP, stealth is OP, remove stealth, remove thieves, rework the class…. You either need to get better at the game, or play the class to actually learn to counter the class, because in all honesty, it’s really not hard.

Trying to decide between a racial elite and a non racial elite?
ALWAYS pick the non racial elite….. The racial elites are nowhere near as strong and usually have extremely long cooldowns. Now, if you’re strictly PvE and just want to use something to be different, go for it, but PvP wise, racials are pretty brutal.

Hey Evolut, I have been playing with you guys for the past 2-3 days now and was considering settling down for one of the slots, I main Thief/Engi but i also play Guardian and Ele. Time slots and TS are no problem for me, however on Mondays, Tuesdays and Wednesdays i might not be able to stay up as late due to work on the next day. Let me know what you think!

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Why would I want to vote for the good canidate? this isn’t real life. I want the game to be interesting and exciting, not good and boring.

Also the only thing that really matters is that Evon’s fractal is 100x better from what we know. If Anet wanted to make it an even fight there wouldn’t be 5 dev posts supporting Evon and 0 supporting Kiel. They would have revealed some juicy secret about the reactor that made us interested. They would of put the minigames and trail portals near each other instead of putting Evon’s in plain view close to the WP and hiding Kiel’s back in a corner. They wouldn’t have sent us 20+ “support reminders” with 2s a token and a giant VOTE FOR EVON slapped on them. And they wouldn’t have made a pirate election where one of the candidates isn’t a pirate and doesn’t like treasure…

That’s not entirely true, a dev from the fractal team mentioned that he is really excited for what the reactor fractal will bring, based off of the brainstorming ideas they have already made and that he is a Kiel supporter because of it.

However…. I think the election is a bit one sided… i mean, now that Anet is constantly coming out with new RNG skins, the Black lion key discount price seems a lot more useful than WP cost reduction. Also, Anet knows that a huge majority of their players are previous GW1 players, who were big fans of the original game and would love having a Abbadon fractal.

Ellen helps the innocent? More like the NPC characters in the game that don’t have anything to do with us or our personal gain for voting for her. After all, do you play a game to satisfy fake characters or you and your friends? Evon makes you rich, making you and your friends happier, making you want to play the game more. We don’t know the exact details of the abaddon fractal, how it played out, so saying “offers to give us things we are familar with and already know” is only half true.

Even with Evon being this more sinister character, it makes things a lot more interesting. Ellen Kiel is just like any other supposed HERO that we have seen in this game, plain and boring.

Sup Sap!
I wouldn’t mind giving it a shot, I remember playing with you a few times and your strategies seemed to work.

Just wondering, how often would we be tourneying and what time zone?
Also, is there a class preference for that last slot? I’ll be sure to message you in-game today when i get home.

EDIT
Just read the thing about being in 200+ for leaderboards. To be honest, i was at 100-150 at one point and then swapped servers to play WvW more and totally stopped tourneying, no clue where i’m at now, leaderboard rating seems to go up and down like crazy.

Mif.3471:

Dan.2940:

i’ll stick with Evon with my guarenteed epic God battle

So epic that the Devs who design Fractals are more excited about Thaumanova…

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

I’m hoping for Kiel. But I have a vested interest because my team will probably be working on the fractals.

---

To shed some light on my bias, our team brainstormed up a bunch of fractals for you guys to pick from and then we settled on the best two. I got pretty excited about Thaumanova, given what we intend for it to entail so I’m Kiel supporter all the way.

Lmao, i thought it was pretty obvious that the devs are voting for Ellen and making forum comments for her to even out the Polls…. It’s pretty one sided to Evon right now and the devs have no clue of what is gonna be in the fractal… They haven’t even started building them yet… they won’t build either until they know who gets elected.. Which to me is wrong… They know how much we want BOTH fractals, so just give us both -_- , i’d rather them spend the time on building both fractals then a new mini game that people only play for the achievements…

EDIT
I read a response from a dev working on the fractal, it seems that they would make the reactor fractal quite awesome aswell, its ashame they couldn’t make both…. TBH as long as both fractals bring something awesome, i don’t care who wins…

Order of Venvardis.6073:

Dan.2940:

To be honest i had never even heard of the explosion til now, and it still doesn’t interest me… Whatever happened at that lab obviously wasn’t as big of an impact as the fall of abbadon or we would know about it….

Having only played Guild Wars 2, my knowledge of the events of the first game isn’t too expansive. I hadn’t heard much about the “fall of Abaddon” until now. It obviously wasn’t a big deal since I don’t know about it.

Truth is, I want the reactor fractal because it will reveal new information/scenes that NONE of us know about, rather than a fractal that will cater to the players of the original game and leave the newer folks left with less of an impact. Watching human gods battle would be cool, but bound to be less exciting than everyone is making it out to be, and not nearly as relevant to the current-day issue (in Tyria) of the explosion that could be linked to other important issues in the world. There’s no way it will be “just a little asuran lab accident.”

Lol, you havn’t played GW1 right? So you wouldn’t know…. The fall of abbadon was a HUGE deal in the first game, its long since that event in history happened, that’s why you have no clue that it happened in GW2… I’ve played both games, and i didn’t know about this reactor until now… something that happened recently. This is why the Abbadon fractal needs to win xD, so you people who have no clue about it can learn and see just how epic it is….

I honestly wish they would just put both in since that is what the customer wants.. It’s not like i don’t like the idea of the other fractal, it’s just we don’t know what to expect from it… Everyone is just conjuring ideas about it to make it seem more epic… Ex. They were experimenting with dragon magic, so a dragon will be created from chaos magic, tear a hole in the universe, suck in FotM and spit out the characters from bioshock.

Ruin.7350:

Dan, I do see myself as a “Master of all classes”. I also find it strange that you denounce my strategy (despite the profession responsibilities changing for every map) without being more specific. If you’re going to criticize my strategy, don’t over generalize. I don’t make a habit of responding on these forums, so if anyone has issues my set up, I don’t suggest you voice them here.

See, you’re taking it the wrong way, i was expressing my concerns with your ideas/strats because from my side i don’t see how it could work, which is why i brought it up, for you to explain how it could. As someone who may be interested in a team, i’d rather know what i’m getting into before deciding whether i want in or not.

Now, from my experiences with fighting against you once or twice, i know you’re a pretty good player, but to claim you’re a master of classes? Now, ill just give an example, you mention that the engineers should be generally in charge of holding a point right? Why are they using grenades then? Wouldn’t bombs get the job done a lot more effectively?

Just giving my 2 cents….You can choose to just totally ignore me since you seem to not take criticism too well, but if you’re gonna take full control of a teams ideas, strats, builds, you best make sure you know these strats and builds are effective if you want any chance of winning games.

Bread.7516:

Dan.2940:

Can someone post a screenshot of the sword?

prepare for disappointment

http://dulfy.net/2013/07/23/gw2-aetherized-weapon-skins-gallery/

Is… that… a sideways weed whacker?

EDIT
Woops i was looking at the axe, the sword looks pretty similar to the Charr one… rapier deff looks better

Can someone post a screenshot of the sword?

dunnberry.2964:

Thermuva ripped a hole in space and time…this can also possibly affect the mists with chaos magic being mixed in…that should be all you as a bookah need to know, or will understand for the complexities of discussion for other info on the reactor is simply too much for your debacle human brain to handle

Someones a little too serious about RPing as an asura…
You mention chaos magic being mixed in with the mists, but you yourself don’t even know what that means… BOOKAH. i’ll stick with Evon with my guarenteed epic God battle, instead of having a bunch of magic dust being thrown in my face.

Mif.3471:

Dan.2940:

I’m not sure how you can compare a Thaumanova Reactor explosion to experiencing a battle with a God. To be honest i had never even heard of the explosion til now, and it still doesn’t interest me… Whatever happened at that lab obviously wasn’t as big of an impact as the fall of abbadon or we would know about it…. .

And once again, you prove my point:

By arguing about how important Abaddon is, while dismissing the value of the Thaumanova Reactor, they’re demonstrating how the GW franchise has placed importance upon human lore, while leaving the lore of other races to feel inconsequential and tacked on.

Sure, i proved your point, but that is only because the human lore made way more of an impact than the asura lore… If you disagree i’d love to hear how Inquest are a greater threat than the enemies that are/were in human lore.

I may be greatly underestimating the importance of this explosion, but explain to me how they have given any hints to it being important at all? This explosion has been hush hush so we have no clue what could have caused it… Maybe it was Primordus, as far as we know it could very well just have been a wild skritt! We know for a fact that the fall of Abbadon made a huge impact and are a little more guaranteed to receive a fractal we will enjoy and find interesting.

I’m not sure how you can compare a Thaumanova Reactor explosion to experiencing a battle with a God. To be honest i had never even heard of the explosion til now, and it still doesn’t interest me… Whatever happened at that lab obviously wasn’t as big of an impact as the fall of abbadon or we would know about it….

I agree to an extent that by voting kiel we would have a fractal that could be followed up on since it was a recent event, but it does not nearly spark my interest as much as the abbadon fractal… I’m pretty sure 90% of Guild Wars 1 fans want something from the game that brought them to playing Guild Wars 2… It’s nostalgic….

IVIUIEI.9631:

To transmute legendary to a level 10 weapon, u can only get the skin but not the stats

Correct, but that is the question, if you transmute a legendary just for the skin, to another weapon, would it receive the upgraded stats mentioned in the blog? My guess would be no, but i wanted a confirmed answer from Anet

ZudetGambeous.9573:

You people are tiresome…

It is happening. It is going to happen as they say. Either accept it or find a new game.

/thread.

I’m sure the posters in this thread are aware that it WILL happen, but Anet can still change their rules on how to obtain these ascended pieces and their stat difference… If you don’t speak up and tell someone that they are doing something wrong or make Anet aware that the mass population of their customers have a problem with what they are adding, they will never do anything about it.

First off, i don’t have a legendary, and don’t plan on obtaining one anytime soon, this is a question straight out of curiosity and to receive an answer to tell my friends who DO have a legendary…

Many players have transmuted their legendary to keep the skin but change the stats of the item, with the upgrading of legendaries, will transmuted ones receive the upgrade?

If so, does that mean people who transmuted their legendaries onto weapons UNDER 80 will receive level 80 stats on their legendary? (Ex. Level 10’s running around with transmuted Twilight with lvl 80 stats)

Alright, first of all, did Anet not admit to ascended pieces being a big mistake and that they should never have added them in the first place? Now they add more? Uhm. What???? I honestly don’t understand the need for better stats than exotic stats, at a certain point it should come down to skill, not stats.

Some might argue that the stat difference is small and that it won’t make much of a difference, however now there’s 6 more pieces of equipment with better stats, AND weapons… I’m pretty sure that will be a big stat difference in comparison to someone wearing full exotics…

Now, even after all of these new stat boosts, i don’t mind it staying in PvE, but JUST PvE. If someone is able to kill a mob faster than me because they have better stats, i don’t mind, but bringing those stats to WvW, to get an advantage over other players starts crossing the line to everything Anet said they wouldn’t do.

Kamui.5726:

So after reading all these post, this is the conclusion:
1. you have to have Elixir S
2. you have to have a stun (example: Supply Crate)
3. you have to react quick enough to hit the thief within the 3 second window while they have reveal debuff
4. you have to trait defensively (example: protection injection)
5. must have toolkit for gear shield to negate initial burst
6. there was more but point made….

Yep lot’s of versatility here to the build you want to play….. -_-

I hate fighting thieves myself and it’s hard to avoid/get away from them due their high mobility. I think stealth needs something else to it, maybe an increase to the debuff time or they get the debuff even if they don’t attack, but then thieves would just complain and ask for something else to be buffed.

No no, please, continue down the list, because there were a ton more suggestions, and if you aren’t already implementing at least of of those suggestions in your build, what are you even running? Full gadgets? There are TONS of ways to counter a thief, especially as an engineer…. You don’t have to make your build revolve around killing just thieves, there are so many options to counter them that you are probably literally running a utility right now that can do it….

Do you play a thief to suggest that the stealth debuff should be increased? They did that once, and guess what? They changed it back! Wanna know why? It made the thief class clunky and ruined the classes flow of attacks. So please don’t suggest that they nerf a classes mechanics so that it’s easier for you to kill them. You are an engineer, do i have to literally list more things you could do to counter them? Yes?

1. Static Shield
2. Magnetic Inversion
3. Rocket Boots
4. Slick Shoes
5. Flamethrower
6. Bomb kit
7. Grenade Kit
8. Elixir S
9. ALL turrets
10. Supply crate (Worst case)
11. Elixir X (Worst Case)
12. Traiting for it (Worst Case)
13. Net Shot
14. Tool Kit

If you’re an engi, and you aren’t using ANY of these things, i’m a little scared for your build.

I find it weird that you would plan out everyones build for 1 specific strategy…
It’s pretty crucial to have a team that is very flexible build wise due to the constant flipping of maps. Some strategies and builds work better on some maps than others… Also, if you’re trying to find people who are really good at their one specific class, i don’t think you should be deciding their build…. Unless you claim to be a master of all classes…

Zindrix.1750:

Dan.2940:

Zindrix.1750:

Xom.9264:

dovrak.4376:

Helcor.9527:

Pavel.8531:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Fighting-thieves-in-WvW

Helping you out. Btw I am a thief and engis(good ones) are even worse than guards to 1v1.

Thief damage is high. Too high.

Didn’t you face fresh air S/D eles? or actually shatter mesmers? They’ll take you down whitout even going stealth. And necros can burst equally high these days. To say that thieves burst is op isn’t only false, it’s outdated.

Thieves burst is OP because they can do it over and over with no danger of dying due to stealth abuse. Other classes need to commit if their combo is countered they are in the fight win or lose. Stealth mesmers can get away also but their reset time to abuse stealth is much longer then thieves they also do not have the movement skills.

This is exactly the issue. Thieves don’t have the vulnerability other classes have by being seen before they launch into their combo. And(as I’ve noticed), if they feel like they aren’t going to win the fight after 5 seconds, they will just stealth and run away.

The stealth traps in WvW aren’t the answer to this problem. They’re not used at all and stealth for WvW should really be reviewed.

Uhm, ever heard of AoE’s? If not, problem solved. Thieves are still vulnerable in stealth, but you just can’t see them. Its like trying to burn an invisible piece of paper. Any AoE spam around you or whoever they are attacking will discourage them to keep doing so, or they will die. Assuming the thief is running backstab, they are glass and need to get close to you, which means standing in your AoEs will rub them the wrong way.

Thieves running away shouldn’t be a problem for you, they gave up and accepted their defeat… Sure it’s annoying, but who really won the battle? So many people seem to have a problem with thieves, but how many of you actually tried the class? You’re asking Arenanet to nerf a class that you havn’t even tried. If someone whos never tried Engineer before started saying they were OP and need a nerf, broken class, etc. How would you react?

You can’t AoE every area after they stealth. The only way to know for sure is if they had stealthed in a small enclosed area, at that point, it was kind of dumb to stealth anyways. I’m not calling for a nerf to thieves, I could give a crap about them, however I think the stealth mechanics could be modified. Obivously Anet is aware of this problem because they took the time to implement those lame traps in WvW.

Maybe like every other game, direct damage could remove them from stealth? Maybe if they have conditions on them, you can see where the damage numbers are coming from without actually being able to target them, and you can still AoE the area?

Guess you didn’t read my full response. I said to AoE the area in which you are standing, or where your ally is being attacked. That way they can’t get close to you without being hit by your AoEs, and if they do as much damage as the one that attacked OP, that one condition should be enough for them to run. ( i’ve run full glass as a thief, i know how it works) But either way, Engineers are like the pure counter to thieves… You got turrets (which completely mess them up), bombs, grenades, flamethrower…. Conditions tend to rip up thieves, especially glassy ones.

Zindrix.1750:

Xom.9264:

dovrak.4376:

Helcor.9527:

Pavel.8531:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Fighting-thieves-in-WvW

Helping you out. Btw I am a thief and engis(good ones) are even worse than guards to 1v1.

Thief damage is high. Too high.

Didn’t you face fresh air S/D eles? or actually shatter mesmers? They’ll take you down whitout even going stealth. And necros can burst equally high these days. To say that thieves burst is op isn’t only false, it’s outdated.

Thieves burst is OP because they can do it over and over with no danger of dying due to stealth abuse. Other classes need to commit if their combo is countered they are in the fight win or lose. Stealth mesmers can get away also but their reset time to abuse stealth is much longer then thieves they also do not have the movement skills.

This is exactly the issue. Thieves don’t have the vulnerability other classes have by being seen before they launch into their combo. And(as I’ve noticed), if they feel like they aren’t going to win the fight after 5 seconds, they will just stealth and run away.

The stealth traps in WvW aren’t the answer to this problem. They’re not used at all and stealth for WvW should really be reviewed.

Uhm, ever heard of AoE’s? If not, problem solved. Thieves are still vulnerable in stealth, but you just can’t see them. Its like trying to burn an invisible piece of paper. Any AoE spam around you or whoever they are attacking will discourage them to keep doing so, or they will die. Assuming the thief is running backstab, they are glass and need to get close to you, which means standing in your AoEs will rub them the wrong way.

Thieves running away shouldn’t be a problem for you, they gave up and accepted their defeat… Sure it’s annoying, but who really won the battle? So many people seem to have a problem with thieves, but how many of you actually tried the class? You’re asking Arenanet to nerf a class that you havn’t even tried. If someone whos never tried Engineer before started saying they were OP and need a nerf, broken class, etc. How would you react?

OP let it be known that thieves with that kind of damage go down just as fast as they can take you down, if not faster. I guarantee that all it would have taken to beat that thief was a few conditions (Hint Hint, You’re an Engi, use AoEs). The build he is using is quite common, its a D/D backstab build, meaning, you should literally watch your back. It’s extremely simple to counter if you know the mechanics of a thief, i suggest playing one for a bit in sPvP if they are that much of a problem for you.

By no means are thieves “OP”, that power comes with a cost….
I love hearing that thieves are OP from a bunch of Engis…. Prob one of the most OP classes in the game, whether you believe it or not.

Oh, and i play both classes, so i believe i know what i’m talking about.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Dan.2940:

Some armor such as P/T/V can’t be bought on the TP. I think it’s a fair relateable argument that we have to spend ALOT of time in PvE to even be able to WvW, to your argument about not wanting to step foot in WvW to get an achievement.

Funny enough, I thought pvt armor could be bought with WvW tokens.

PVT armor is also karma obtainable. You can earn plenty of karma in WvW.

But you would have to run to Orr to get the actual armor, which means going to PvE.
Badges is a way to earn armor, but if you already have crappy armor, it would take forever to kill enough people to obtain enough badges to buy it. So why would we waste a week attempting to kill people who have the highest stats while we are rocking blues and greens.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Dan.2940:

Oh really? So you got it the first day with those zergs being a big problem? That’s odd…. Think it took me 2-3 days in PvE to get my full armor and weapon sets. Oh, and did i mention that the only way to get the cool items from the new events is to do PvE content? Guess i should let Arena net know to make it so they can change what they have been doing since start-up and make it so you can get those cool items by doing PvP.

Like I keep saying. It’s not the zergs that are the problem. It’s the griefing campers. that just sit there and hold known chokepoints for hours.

And please don’t compare getting your entire weapon and armor set (most of which can be straight-out bought and don’t require dungeon running, FYI) to getting a single achievement. Those aren’t even on par and you know it.

How can we obtain this gold to buy the weapons and armor off the TP? Force us to use our credit cards? Some armor such as P/T/V can’t be bought on the TP. I think it’s a fair relateable argument that we have to spend ALOT of time in PvE to even be able to WvW, to your argument about not wanting to step foot in WvW to get an achievement.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Dan.2940:

Yes, taking people sentences out of context does tend to make their logic sound “flawed”. I was relating what you guys are asking arenanet to do to something that is completely insane, because guess what? What you’re asking them to do is insane. The achievement being placed there may not have been a smart idea, but whining does nothing right? Unless you actually want them to remove the achievement now? In which case you’re being selfish to everyone who got the achievement and earned those 5 points. You just want 100% completion for your own personal NEEDS. Once again, its NOT required.

All this time you’re wasting on the forums complaining, is more time you could have spent trying to get the achievement, because i am 99% sure Arena net will not remove it. Your logic is impeccable.

*sigh* Again. I have the achievement. I got it day one and then portalled people for two hours while helping maintain a three-server wide truce.

We’re not asking them to remove it. That is just a bad idea at this juncture. We’re politely requesting that they don’t put an objective like that in there again.

And please don’t bring up the tired old ‘but it’s not _required_’ thing again. Technically nothing we do in-game is required. So that invalidates any argument along those lines.

Oh really? So you got it the first day with those zergs being a big problem? That’s odd…. Think it took me 2-3 days in PvE to get my full armor and weapon sets. Oh, and did i mention that the only way to get the cool items from the new events is to do PvE content? Guess i should let Arena net know to make it so they can change what they have been doing since start-up and make it so you can get those cool items by doing PvP.

EDIT
“And WvWers don’t keep their mouths shut about it. They bring it up each and every time a PvE player ever mentions not wanting to engage in WvW.”

What i meant was, we don’t make forum posts complaining about it. I’ve seen at least 10 posts about this achievement being a problem. Our thinking is, if you can make an arugment saying that you don’t want to touch WvW/PvP content, we don’t want to touch PvE content either. Should it not work both ways?

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Bovinity.8610:

You PvE guys get ONE achievement tucked away in OS JP

Sorry to be nitpicky here, but this is the third achievement down there.
Another three in the other three jumping puzzles.
Plus various waypoints and POIs that took some of us months to complete.

A lot of players have put in significant effort already getting map completion as well as the “normal” achievement at the end of all the “sanctum” jumping puzzles, and left there knowing that they were DONE. Not interested in WvW; never again to return.

Until…

So, I think that makes a little bit of a difference, too.

You’re right, the time to get 3 achievements = the amount of dungeon time in PvE it took me to get my full armor and weapon sets. Then Guild missions for ascended gear, and fractals so i could get a cool weapon skin, and dragon bash so i could get shattered dragon wings, ETC.

I don’t agree with arenanet putting achievements in WvW, especially ones that require you to own a castle, or tower, but you PvErs decide to actually complain about it, while WvWers keep their mouths shut about being forced to do PvE content if they want anything worthwhile.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Dan.2940:

Oh, so you want it so that you can enter the JP, get your achievement right away and never return to that disgusting place?

No. We don’t want to enter it in the first place. I don’t see why you haven’t figured that out by now.

Dan.2940:

Well then i want to get 100% map completion for only completing 50% of the map.

Reductio ad absurdum. You may want to avoid logical fallacies if you want to make a decent point.

Dan.2940:

I’ve done the achievement twice now, unless you are bad at JP’s you should not have a problem making it to the end. The zergs pretty much died off since the first day, and if not? Come at a different time or bring your own zerg or sneak past them….. I don’t understand why some of you want to be spoon fed in a MMO.

The puzzle itself is fun. The zergs are not a problem either. It’s the camper groups that just sit at known chokepoints and kill all that pass. Groups that are drawn there as they know that PvE players will be there and they want ‘free kills’. If those groups weren’t so prevalent and persistant then these discussions would have died off long ago.

That isn’t wanting to be spoon-fed, and alluding that we do is quite insulting.

Bovinity.8610:

The PvP/WvW community is far more hostile towards others in forums among other places. Especially towards PvE players.

Yeah, sometimes we do get offensive. Partially because of stuff like this. PvP/WvW players are already used to having to PvE if they want to get any achievements or keep a decent cash flow, or see any content. But we generally don’t throw a tantrum about it. It’s just how things are.

Hmm. So having well thought out complaints is throwing a tantrum now? Or is that only because we disagree with you? Don’t answer that. We already know the answer.

Note that all the harsh and hostile voices have been from the WvW community. That’s not just a coincidence.

Yes, taking people sentences out of context does tend to make their logic sound “flawed”. I was relating what you guys are asking arenanet to do to something that is completely insane, because guess what? What you’re asking them to do is insane. The achievement being placed there may not have been a smart idea, but whining does nothing right? Unless you actually want them to remove the achievement now? In which case you’re being selfish to everyone who got the achievement and earned those 5 points. You just want 100% completion for your own personal NEEDS. Once again, its NOT required.

All this time you’re wasting on the forums complaining, is more time you could have spent trying to get the achievement, because i am 99% sure Arena net will not remove it. Your logic is impeccable.

Bovinity.8610:

The PvP/WvW community is far more hostile towards others in forums among other places. Especially towards PvE players.

Yeah, sometimes we do get offensive. Partially because of stuff like this. PvP/WvW players are already used to having to PvE if they want to get any achievements or keep a decent cash flow, or see any content. But we generally don’t throw a tantrum about it. It’s just how things are.

You PvE guys get ONE achievement tucked away in OS JP and it spawns stuff like this where you’re acting like ANet came to your house and kicked your dog. In some ways, seeing that as PvP/WvW player, it’s a bit annoying.

It’s like being a starving third-world kid and seeing some fat American start a war over there only being 19 nuggets in their 20 piece McNugget box. =D

This guy, i like this guy.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Here’s an idea Anet should remember for next time. If you’re going to set something Living Story related down in OS, do it AT THE ENTRANCE! That way everybody can get it without being ganked all the time.

Oh, so you want it so that you can enter the JP, get your achievement right away and never return to that disgusting place?

Well then i want to get 100% map completion for only completing 50% of the map.

I’ve done the achievement twice now, unless you are bad at JP’s you should not have a problem making it to the end. The zergs pretty much died off since the first day, and if not? Come at a different time or bring your own zerg or sneak past them….. I don’t understand why some of you want to be spoon fed in a MMO.

“It is absolutely intended that you can fight people in the JP. The fact that so many people are piling into the map to get the achievement is good for any and all of you who are capable of laying the smack down on them, and, if they manage to fight back is hopefully going to encourage some of them to stick around and play WvW. If you don’t want to get killed by other players, don’t play WvW. Plain and simple. The achievement isn’t required for getting the meta-achievement on purpose.”
~ Devon Carter (Arenanet Dev)

Uhm, do i even have to say anything? For you whining completionists, have fun with your 99%. See how far your whining got you?

Meanwhile i finished the JP 2 nights in a row, there was only a zerg on the first night. Guess it’s impossible to finish the JP though, right?

DaddyBoJangles.6012:

I went into EB this morning before work. I saw maybe 5 people. 3 of them on opposing servers. Got it done without anyone greifing. Last night when I tried there was an allout war in that place. Just try doing it at a non peak time if you can, I understand it sucks if you can only play at night(I myself only play at night) but for stuff like this I try to squeeze it in before work.

“Ugh… you know, there’s two people in this world…
People who will whine and complain until something gets done, and people who actually do something about the situation. People who don’t wait around for the world to mold to their liking.”

You are a living example of what i was talking about. You went and did something about the fact that the zergs usually are active during the afternoon. Oh and would you look at that, you got the achievement. How about more people do this and less complain? Sounds more productive to me.

Dedlaw.9130:

Dan.2940:

I don’t get where you get this information that WvWers dont like to do the JP, i do it with my friends all the time, and all we ever do is WvW, with the occasional pve for armor and new events (Like this one).

I never claimed they don’t like JPs. I claimed that for most the JP’s reward was not worth the aggravation to them. If this were not the case it wouldn’t have been dead in the first place.

Dan.2940:

Are you saying there shouldn’t be any PvP achievements then? Because PvErs want to be completionists? I agree that it shouldn’t be tied in with a pve event but PvErs can avoid it, like they avoid the sPvP achievements.

I never once said remove PvP achievements. I said they shouldn’t aim to revitalize a dead PvP area (most notably one that is designed around ganking) by trying to attract PvE players. That they are using an achievement to accomplish this is irrelevant. My point would remain the same regardless what they used as an attraction.

And again, the “pve can avoid it” argument does not change the fact that it’s bad idea.

Dan.2940:

something that isn’t necessarily a bad thing

And that is what’s at the core of our disagreement.
I DEFINITELY think it’s a bad idea.

Ok wait a second, let me try to clarify. PvErs don’t want to do sPvP achievements right? Even though there’s prob 50 achievements there. You were saying how PvErs are “Completionists” and go Gung Ho on getting ALL the achievements right? So why would they avoid 50 sPvP achievements, and flip turkey because they can’t get 1 pve achievement worth 5 points?

Now you’re saying, a lot of people don’t do the JP anymore because the reward is bad, you’re telling me its a problem for you now to do the JP because you want 5 achievement points? If its so much of a problem for you or any PvErs, simply avoid it. There is absolutely no reason to argue on a forum saying its a big deal if you hardly ever went in the JP to begin with.

It seems like this 1 achievement is being blown out of the water. Just because the achievement technically falls under PvE, but by entering WvW and this Jump Puzzle you allow the risk of being attacked by enemies, so wouldn’t that be PvP? Now tell me how that differs from the 50 sPvP achievements that they refuse to get.

Jemmi.6058:

Dan.2940:

Ugh… you know, there’s two people in this world…

People who will whine and complain until something gets done, and people who actually do something about the situation. People who don’t wait around for the world to mold to their liking.

Whining about a measly 5 achievement points? You guys know how ridiculous you sound? If you are not about the PvP life, stay out of WvW where zergs are EVERYWHERE. Sure its annoying to be JP griefed, i don’t approve of it, but it’s never going to change so you have to learn to adapt.

There are THOUSANDS of achievements, why would you complain about 1 achievement that’s worth 5 points? You either accept the challenge and ACHIEVE your ACHIEVEMENTS or just sit with thumbs up your butts complaining on the forums.

Just in reference. My complaints are unrelated to the achievement points. I like the jumping puzzle and wish I could actually go do it. However, everytime I go, I get ganked. It’s lame.

I wouldn’t even mind the PvP if it wasn’t designed so horribly. It encourages you to get attacked by a swarm. Perhaps if OS was created instanced with max 5 people per side. Then at least you could have some fair and interesting fights that happen while you are jumping.

As it is now, you go in and are merrily jumping along, and boom 20 guys are right behind you. Enjoy.

Is that fun for anyone? Maybe. I don’t understand why.

I understand your frustration with that, i hate when that happens to me too, but that happened even before the kite was added and is just more frequent to happen now that the kite is there. Getting ganked is part of the JP as much as getting ganked in WvW is part of WvW. Anet developed this JP to be different from the others, to have that PvP aspect to it, if you don’t like it, maybe do other Jump Puzzles? If you wanted everyone to be friendly in a zone where you can attack others, it isn’t going to happen.

Dedlaw.9130:

Dan.2940:

how does it lure in PvErs for 5 points?

As you already said, completionist would be one reason. Another would be that AP now have value due to the reward system so players will want to be gaining every point they can.

Dan.2940:

if for some reason a PvE player wanted ALL the achievements, they have to deal with this crap and its at their own choice.

You can also use this claim if, hypothetically, Anet decided you need to pay 100g to finish a specific dungeon path. Just because completing it is not necessary does not make it any less of a stupid idea.

Dan.2940:

The complaining on forums about the issue, does nothing. Arena net can’t stop people from camping the JP, they did it even before this kite was added to the map.

Preventing it wouldn’t be necessary if they didn’t encourage people to go in there in the first place and none of the complaining on the forums would have been necessary.
And maybe the complaining does not change anything. But neither does defending it.

Dan.2940:

They also added the kite to the JP because it was so dead, its obvious to see that. Would you really rather them just remove the achievement? How would that be of any gain to anyone?

It was dead because no WvWers wanted to go there. If they wanted to bring a dead WvW area to life, why target PvEers by putting an achievement there? That’s like removing arrow cart blueprints and only making them available by doing Arah path 4. Wrong target audience

I don’t get where you get this information that WvWers dont like to do the JP, i do it with my friends all the time, and all we ever do is WvW, with the occasional pve for armor and new events (Like this one). Are you saying there shouldn’t be any PvP achievements then? Because PvErs want to be completionists? I agree that it shouldn’t be tied in with a pve event but PvErs can avoid it, like they avoid the sPvP achievements.

The only reason i am defending Anet is because i just don’t understand why for every new patch or update, there has to be whiners for something that isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Look at it as a way to get more achievement points, more options. Not a way to make OCD PvErs rage because they are missing 1 achievement in the event chain.

Rottaran Owain.6789:

Dan.2940:

I snuck past them with stealth, even if you’re the best player in the world, you can’t always predict where someone is in stealth. Believe it or not, people who camp the JP are usually people who prefer trolling over actually fighting, a lot of them are bad players who hide behind the fact that they have a larger group than you.

In fact, there’s several places where you can easily put a trap in between random jumps that will immobilize, stun, chill, or cripple anyone who goes over with no way of avoiding it. Some of which will instantly kill via fall damage any who trigger it.

Honestly, the fact that you think stealth is some sort of catch all in an exceedingly linear jumping puzzle boggles my mind.

Did i say i was invincible in stealth? These campers aren’t some kind of evil geniuses to leave traps everywhere they THINK i’m going to go. From your previous comment, apparently people have to be less than decent for me to beat them in a fight? I never said i was a God, and you don’t have to be one to sneak past a zerg, don’t play this out like it ISN’T possible.

Edit
Just thought i would also add, don’t you think your thinking is a bit linear for a jumping puzzle? You assume i can’t condi cleanse, restealth, shadowstep, shadow refuge, roll for intiative, withdraw if i was caught by a trap?

Dedlaw.9130:

Dan.2940:

Ugh… you know, there’s two people in this world…

People who will whine and complain until something gets done, and people who actually do something about the situation. People who don’t wait around for the world to mold to their liking.

Whining about a measly 5 achievement points? You guys know how ridiculous you sound? If you are not about the PvP life, stay out of WvW where zergs are EVERYWHERE. Sure its annoying to be JP griefed, i don’t approve of it, but it’s never going to change so you have to learn to adapt.

There are THOUSANDS of achievements, why would you complain about 1 achievement that’s worth 5 points? You either accept the challenge and ACHIEVE your ACHIEVEMENTS or just sit with thumbs up your butts complaining on the forums.

I did the achievement during the Pirates LS and I’ll be doing it again this time too, and for all the upcoming times they keep thinking this is a good idea. Doesn’t mean I’m going to sit back and shut-up about how stupid it really is.

Like you said, the achievement is bringing life back into the JP. There’s a reason regular WvWers didn’t go there. The effort and annoyances are not worth the gain. It’s just a place where trolls went for cheap-kils. So instead of making it more attractive for WvWers (after all, everyone keeps repeating how this is a WvW territory, so WvWers should be the target audience right?), they decide to lure in PvE players. How stupid of an idea is it to lure them into a WvW gankfest that even regular WvWers avoid? Making the reward 5 points or 50 doesn’t change that.

TBH as a WvWer, i don’t mind the challenge but that’s my own preference, so with that aside, how does it lure in PvErs for 5 points? They can do the PvE achievements and can completely avoid this kite. If for some reason a PvE player wanted ALL the achievements, they have to deal with this crap and its at their own choice. The complaining on forums about the issue, does nothing. Arena net can’t stop people from camping the JP, they did it even before this kite was added to the map. They also added the kite to the JP because it was so dead, its obvious to see that. Would you really rather them just remove the achievement? How would that be of any gain to anyone?

Ugh… you know, there’s two people in this world…

People who will whine and complain until something gets done, and people who actually do something about the situation. People who don’t wait around for the world to mold to their liking.

Whining about a measly 5 achievement points? You guys know how ridiculous you sound? If you are not about the PvP life, stay out of WvW where zergs are EVERYWHERE. Sure its annoying to be JP griefed, i don’t approve of it, but it’s never going to change so you have to learn to adapt.

There are THOUSANDS of achievements, why would you complain about 1 achievement that’s worth 5 points? You either accept the challenge and ACHIEVE your ACHIEVEMENTS or just sit with thumbs up your butts complaining on the forums.

Rottaran Owain.6789:

Dan.2940:

( If you think im all talk, last night we had 2 servers camping the JP with full out zergs, we found a way to sneak past them and kill them all, and let me tell you, it was fun and satisfying.)

If they were decent, you would not be able to sneak past them, let alone beat them without vastly superior numbers.

I snuck past them with stealth, even if you’re the best player in the world, you can’t always predict where someone is in stealth. Believe it or not, people who camp the JP are usually people who prefer trolling over actually fighting, a lot of them are bad players who hide behind the fact that they have a larger group than you.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Katz.5143:

SynfulChaot.3169:

That’s my guess as well.

I mean, I understand the intention of getting people in WvW. Unfortunately it draws the exact wrong kind of WvW player for getting anyone to ever want to return. These caches/kites are only making WvW less appealing.

While what you say is true, there have been enough threads complaining about wvw being required for map completion for them to have a clue that this would be unacceptable to the same group of people. And while I play wvw a lot and enjoy the pvp there, I don’t like the jp. The only time I even go there is when I KNOW a Mesmer is porting people for the siege chest.

On a different topic, they should add more ways to earn achievement points for people in wvw. I do enough pve to get them because I like both but for people who are strickly wvw, there should be away for them to get more points.

There is a difference between the introduction to WvW that mapping provides and the introduction to WvW that being griefed in Obsidian Sanctum.

I first really saw WvW due to mapping. I still stop by on occasion. If my first experience were to be the grief-fest that some immature players make Obsidian Sanctum? Yeah. I’d not want to go back. Not at all.

Note: I still disagree with WvW map complation needed for world completion, but it is a much lesser evil.

stof.9341:

RyuDragnier.9476:

ANet, what the hell are you smoking to keep putting it here? There’s a kitten good reason why nobody does Obsidian, and it’s because of griefers, campers, etc.

Obviously, ANet saw that as a problem. The goal for that map IS a PvP fest. And the lack of participants can only be fixed by giving better rewards inside, which is exactly what ANet did. In a way that you cannot exploit those rewards in anyway and you are not losing much by not doing it. It’s genius really.

Bringing in more skilled PvP players is the way to do it. Not bringing in PvE players with PvE builds and gear. Players that are basically free kills to the properly built, geared, and experienced PvP/WvW players. Not genius. Short-sighted.

These caches/kites are bringing life back to the JP, whether its with a zerg or not. Too many people believe that in a PvP jump puzzle, people shouldn’t attack you or try to give you a challenge because you just want the loot/achievement. Where is the fun in that? You would rather just do your normal daily routine of completing the JP with no challenge? If you think this JP is not designed for PvP, i guess you also believe the traps on the map are just for looks?

Either way, the achievement is worth what? 5 points? The zerg is part of the challenge and if you want the achievement, you’re gonna have to work for it. Arenanet knew fully well that it would draw more players in to grief the JP.

( If you think im all talk, last night we had 2 servers camping the JP with full out zergs, we found a way to sneak past them and kill them all, and let me tell you, it was fun and satisfying.)

RyuDragnier.9476:

ANet, what the hell are you smoking to keep putting it here? There’s a kitten good reason why nobody does Obsidian, and it’s because of griefers, campers, etc. And you’re thinking that getting lower level people that don’t like PvP in such a place is wise? Here at Ebay we’re fighting TC and DB, the TWO servers without a downtime. And you expect any of our players to actually be able to do this JP with them spawn camping it? Are you NUTS?

Ryu, i was at the JP yesterday too, while they were griefing, we killed them. Learn to live and forget, it is a PvP built jump puzzle after all… I totally understand your frustration, I’ve been in your position too, but i don’t believe you understand how boring the JP would be without people in it, camping or not.