Guild Wars 2

Wanderer.3248:

Rangers … would be the first to adopt rifles, because of their accuracy

This is extremely far from true with early designs, however. Only until more modern manufacturing practices with precision boring and ammunition could the rifle be argued as more accurate than traditional ranged weapons such as the longbow and crossbow.

The crossbow is actually a far-superior weapon in regards to is merits for hunting and accuracy. This has even managed to hold true in our modern age. In many areas, the effectiveness of the weapon is in fact so potent for hunting that the weapon itself is illegal to own. Had the technology not been marginalized with the dawn of firearms and had it the time to garner more use in warfare, I would almost guarantee that many early firearm adopters would have not chosen said weapon over a more-developed crossbow.

That said, I still support rangers with staves as melee/nature support weapons. Thieves, warriors, and mesmers could make great use out of a crossbow, however.

Anchoku.8142:

If Rapid Fire decreased in damage as distance increased, that would tone down the damage and make it more realistic. In real life, damage decreases with distance and drastically decreases with sloppiness like trying to fire a bunch of arrows as fast as possible without much aiming.

Ranger needs more interesting, Ranger-like options for close in fighting more than a buff to the long bow.

The buff to the longbow was required to make the weapon functional.

S/D and S/T still remain by far the best choices the ranger has available. Glassy Longbow is a build that especially in sPvP kills a lot of sub-par players. It’s only really strong on those who really know the class (which usually means the players who swap to their melee sets when they should) in open-field combat against certain classes and builds. Otherwise, the weapon overall has remained largely unchanged and underwhelming. It’s why there’s not one pro player utilizing it, yet you do see the odd S/D ranger every so often in some matches.

warriorjrd.8695:

DeceiverX.8361:

In PvE maybe. Frankly I’d say there’s little increase to using one unless fighting stationary targets.

I know for a fact my pet makes literally zero difference in PvP formats because the attacks are so easily dodged and the movement patterns so slow.

Then use pets that offer CC and use CC yourself. Rangers have the most access to cripples and immobilize, utilize it.

That’s only true if you play S/D.

Further, that’s also only true if you play S/D and build around soft CC and that your opponent does not evade, use re-position skills, have access to cleanses, etc.

And that’s further only true if you’re running more effects to keep them locked down, in which case it’s very arguable that you could just build for more raw damage throughput as an individual.

There’s very little way to justify saying that pets offer a large portion of damage unless you build explicitly into BM and really spec your character out for utilizing the pet as your primary source of damage, which is only applicable/effective in a few scenarios.

Friend of mine I’ve been playing games with for a long time just hit 80 today as a new player.

He had no idea how to unlock the new traits and had no idea that he could buy them. He also had no idea that they costed skill points and had subsequently spent every skill point he had unlocking skills instead. So now he’s 80 with no traits.

Turns out he’s pretty upset he now has to grind out a ton of content to experiment with builds and play a functional character. I’m not sure if he’s going to be returning to the game.

It’s barely functional for veteran players. It’s not at all healthy for new ones… which defeats the entire purpose of the attempt, no?

The meta is solid.

The individual balancing problems which lead to said meta is not.

A perfectly-balanced game will not have a meta. Contemplate this.

If my gap closers/openers got cast times and could be interrupted I’d just straight up leave. There are already way too many long-lasting twitch-speed-activation defenses which mitigate a lot of aggressive play styles.

Being able to play aggressively and predict to utilize instant effects is what makes the game’s combat good. Everything on a tell just stagnates play and puts everyone running bunker sustain specs.

In PvE maybe. Frankly I’d say there’s little increase to using one unless fighting stationary targets.

I know for a fact my pet makes literally zero difference in PvP formats because the attacks are so easily dodged and the movement patterns so slow.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

How many times have they said there will never be a petless option?

We all rolled rangers, which was the pet class of the game. We did not roll archers, marksmen or anything of the sort.

The pet is not going anywhere. Deal with it.

I personally rolled one on the basis that they were described as “unparalled archers” and have mained ranged classes on games for what will soon be closing in on twelve years.

And through the countless stow options suggested in the past, I know I’m not the only one who wants to play as an archer.

Granted, longbow buffs made them a hell of a lot better, and I’m not asking for much more, but it’s the sad truth that there are many people playing or who have quit the game who wanted to play a dedicated archer character and can’t.

I’m not discrediting the nature-based character, and I’m very well-aware that stowing is never going to be an option despite the at-times mandatory need for it (like scenarios where bouncing projectiles are a huge problem which forces extra hits to be received and offers the ranger no means of dealing with this), but the option for the pet-less archer genuinely should exist, at this point preferably on another class.

Sarrow.2785:

Am I the only thief who feels that the outcome of a fight doesn’t rely on a traited steal landing?

I win fights all the time when steal misses or is on CD.
I lose fights/have to retreat all the time when steal hits.

I don’t think steal is a big deal really. The only reasons I trait it is because a) the other traits are bugged or underwhelming and b) if you have the option to load traits on to a skill and then reduce that skill’s cooldown, you’re effectively reducing the CD of all the traits as well. Any intelligent player will try to maximise the synergy of their build.

shrug

Yes, actually.

It’s just people see all of the effects the skill can perform and QQ about it being too strong.

I’m not saying a fully-traited steal isn’t strong – actually, it’s very strong, at least in the scope of the sPvP meta – the problem is that it’s only strong on the basis that it can be used to counter pretty much anything and everything, and that this skill is a requirement for thieves in sPvP on the basis that every single other build is totally useless and has no role anywhere. It fuels a build dedicated to counter-play that has little counter-play to it… or at least in terms of the scope of what its role is. The problem, though, is that because everything else in the meta is so strong, both teams and thieves in general are dependent entirely on this kind of counter-play to be relevant.

So these complaints stem largely over fundamental problems with sPvP and the meta in general as well as the fact that every single other skill for thieves has been nerfed to oblivion to the point where this is the only utility and ability that the community and ANet has left them with to remain viable (thieves as a class have been directly nerfed in every single balance update to date). As per most complaints pertaining to sPvP, the source has more to do with the format and past changes rather than what’s actually being complained about.

Nerfing steal builds as they stand without major overhauls elsewhere would kick the thief entirely as a profession out of sPvP relevance. And it’s only there due to a very niche role fulfillment due to the existing meta.

It’s why I still prefer WvW-PvP because there is no real meta in the smaller scale, and a lot more builds are viable. If you complained about steal being too strong in WvW you’d get laughed out of the format.

@LOS: Fun fact, Guard’s JI ignores it as well.

Again, I’m not disputing whether or not rangers should have rifles. Frankly, I’d prefer them to have the staff as an additional weapon and would prefer for thieves to get the longbow since there are already too many blind options for thieves and they lack a 1200 ranged weapon/attack altogether.

I’m merely just disputing what a lot of people claim that in the case of GW2 “ranger != archer” on the basis that the class description says otherwise, and that said firepower should be justified.

Carighan.6758:

I think the bigger issue is that these foods provide 40% of something when in trait points the balance is 10% versus 100 stat.

So either the trait return needs change to balance the lines there, or the food needs change to balance it there.

Not sure which I prefer.

It’s not even that, though. Consider things like Strength Runes. It’s a multitude of effects which when combined make durations get over the top to the point where none of them individually are to really blame.

I’d look into HiS. The lack of removal of DoT conditions is probably what’s killing you and that’s our single best outlet. It’ll let you remove excess torment on IR as well which other non-stealth builds cannot do.

How about…

…we just remove all +/- duration effects on boons/conditions since this problem stems largely from the process of stacking for a sustained or permanent effect rather than temporary which is what the whole point of boons is.

And then we can just alter base durations of everything accordingly so that they’re fair and not scaling improperly.

And then we can adjust condition cleansing/stacking rates and effects to fix their ridiculous binary success/failure based on game mode.

So people can still burst with 25 might, nothing gets baseline nerfed to preserve diversity game-wide, it allows room for further growth and development, and boons because short-term bonuses as they were intended to be while conditions require maintenance for sustained damage.

So then we can fix the numbers game-wide and make everything work properly as it should. Food/Rune/Sigil diversity increases and allows for growth for new effects.

And THEN if celestial proves to be mathematically too strong as it is now due to the changes made from ferocity, we can tone the numbers down knowing nothing else needs to change.

It’s like the problem could then be actually fixed at the source instead of being another crappy “low-hanging fruit fix” which in the past have properly adjusted nothing and are why we’re in this problem to begin with.

Either lengthen the frame to 1/2 second and cut the condition duration by 1-2s since the durations on condi thief builds are already high and it would yield too much evasion on D/D condi with minimal skill interaction (3 spam forever)

OR

Put the evade at the cast of the skill, and cut down the aftercast by 1/4 second to keep the same vulnerability period at the end as it is now, and cut the condition duration by 1-2s.

Problem solved?

You’re pretty much there. DD burst relies on Cloak and Dagger + Backstab for its effective damage, and that is best optimized around Power, Ferocity, and critical chance. This is best-done by Berserker-stat gear which has Power, Precision, and Ferocity as stats. Death blossom is one of the worst skills in the game, and while spamming it for bleeding stacks can be effective for groups of weak mobs, it is considered overall too weak to use and does far less damage than D/D berserker stab. Traits for PvE are usually as linked below to optimize damage throughputs. Mind you, this is strictly a PVE build for dungeons and bosses and will not function at all in PvP scenarios:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAoYVlsMpxpdPx0J0PNRLRtdHEdfgXvh2PQAEiA-TBCEwAEOBAbVCyc/R5ihHBAL1faqkqj+CAHJgAAIAczbezbezbGA-e

You’ll be using the fury gained from Steal -> Thrill of the Crime to bump up your stab chances while gaining out-of-stealth boosts to DPS from Revealed Training. You’ll just be cycling backstabs over and over.

For solo PvE on regular mobs (at 80), I’d consider this trait allocation substantially better for sheer killing speed by maximizing backstab damage through capitalizing on First Strikes’ effect:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAoYVlsMpxpdPx0J0PNRLBtdIi+L87N6+gAA-TBCEwAEOBAbVCyc/R5ihHBAL1faqkqj+CAHJgAAIAczbezbezbGA-e

For pre-80, however, go Trickery 2 for Thrill of the Crime, Deadly Arts 2 for Mug, Critical Strikes 2 for Furious Retaliation, and then Shadow Arts 2 for Shadow’s Embrace as a condition removal tool while you finish leveling.

The build is squishy, but so are thieves in general, and it is manageable with skilled play. Before level 80 it is usually recommended to use a Sword + Pistol setup (BP/Pistol Whip 5 + 3 rinse and repeat) due to fewer trait dependencies, built-in AOE’s/cleaves, better evasion, condition cleansing, CC/interrupts, and the blind field. Shortbow should always be an alternate for the reasons you’ve mentioned. That said, getting practice surviving on glassy D/D can be very helpful to make you a better player. Just remember other options exist if you find yourself stuck.

For leveling skills, I would recommend keeping what you have, unless again, you find yourself in a situation where you need other utilities. Don’t consider GW2 like most games where you commit to particular skills. Some of the best players switch in and out of skills just before entering combat to gain the upper hand. There really isn’t much of a one-size-fits-all for utility setups. Consider dagger storm as well for a utility. Its lower cooldown and AOE cripple + bleed + projectile reflection can help a lot in kiting situations when you’re low and on cooldowns.

For gear progression, usually what you get from loot and level-up rewards is enough to manage. I personally only bother upgrading when I find myself either dying or just not killing fast enough and my gear is out around 10 levels. Otherwise if it’s better than what I have, I use it. There’s no real need for rares or better before 80, and that’s when exotic becomes an easy-to-get staple through dungeons. Minor sigils of bloodlust should be all you really want or need until endgame, and I personally never really bother with runes, unless again I find I need the stats. Usually I just fill in the slots with Minor Runes of the Centaur/Citadel/Brawler/Elementalist/Hoelbrak/Mesmer (or other minor Power-primary runes based upon cost) for a static +60 power bonus if I deem it necessary.

You can overwrite runes and sigils on anything in the game without any cost or fear of breaking the armor/weapons. It will however detroy the old rune/sigil in the process, though. To get the old rune/sigil requires a lucky salvage or use of a black lion salvage kit (but destroys the gear), and to keep both intact, there are extractors available in the cash shop, but they’re pretty much not worth it since the cost of one is usually more than just buying the new rune, anyways.

kaikalii.4198:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

kaikalii.4198:

I can do it with D/D, D/P, P/P, even without using weapons at all, but I can’t seem to do it without dying when I run S/D. Fighting actual people, I have no problem, but that many veterans just overwhelms me when I don’t have stealth.

If you don’t have stealth as S/D, how you do stealth up as D/D?

Lol Cloak and Dagger?

That was the point of the question lol. CnD is used for stealth on both D/D and S/D and OP says he has no stealth on S/D but can solo camps fine in D/D because of it.

Though soloing camps should be substantially easier on S/D than D/D. The better cleave, condition cleansing, in-out damage avoidance, weakness on autos, better evades, and CC off of Tac Strike for heal interrupts makes it substantially easier to do.

Einlanzer.1627:

It’s so hard for people to understand that “Ranger” does not mean “master of ranged weapons”, it means “wilderness roamer”. And, yes, while real-world rangers do and have used firearms, that doesn’t mean it fits within the context of this game world.

Rangers are the only class that has access to both Short and Longbows in addition to a third option (axes), which gives them versatility, and especially now that Longbows have been buffed they are probably the most proficient class at long range.

So, in short, Rangers don’t really need Rifle. I’d prefer another melee option.

While I agree with what you’re saying with the regard to the weapon options (would much prefer melee staff myself), a lot of people who argue about the whole ranger vs archer thing forget to look at the official class description.

“Unparalleled Archers” should implicate superior ranged firepower.

I believe Body of Koda (Heavy Leggings from Honor of the Waves) has a mesh alignment issue with humans. I tested this on both my male and female characters, and this piece of armor really likes to misbehave in that it does not align correctly with a single piece of armor in the game and has very rigid angles at the waist (see screnshots), and on females, it has a gap between the lower stomach and waist on some other armors.

I’d like to see this fixed if possible since it’s a really unique piece of equipment and there is nothing else like it for heavy armor available.

Thanks.

http://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad295/NooFaiL/Random%20Stuff/BodyofKodaIssue0_zpsbc41be7b.jpg

http://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad295/NooFaiL/Random%20Stuff/BodyofKodaIssue1_zps1b457a9f.jpg

SYPHA.9283:

lordkrall.7241:

Actually the only time they advertised the whole new content every two weeks was during the time when there was new content every two weeks. So not really anything lied about there.

They are most likely also going back to the two week release schedule starting on Tuesday when S2 returns.

We also did have new content (depending on who you ask) less than two weeks ago with the added stuff to the Halloween festivities.

If you do want a refund you will have to contact support. Keep in mind that a refund will only be considered if you bought the game directly from them and within 6 months from now.

Nor have they made any new adverts recanting their original claims.

C’mon a hardcore GW2 fan would not call this Halloween event NEW content. Yes S2 is starting soon, but it only has 5 episodes left. That is 10 weeks. Some where in there will be the X-mas event….hey which is old recycled crap from last year as well.

As dead as this game has become {evidenced by mega-servers and last month they offered free weekends to play …..TWICE} i would gladly pay $100 for a new X-pac comparable to the Day 1 map.

Hell, i would pay $100 bucks now to get the OLD GW2 back. They have severely watered the game down for filthy casuals.

I hope you get your refund. Actually, no. I hope you don’t so you just get fed up and leave for once. Then we don’t have to deal with this kind of attitude.

Your measly $100 with all your demands is lower than what a lot people blow on a given week for new skins. Get over yourself.

Donari.5237:

A point I’ve made before but feel is germane to this thread: These forums are not toxic or overwhelmingly negative. Sure, I can see that some of the complaining does scare some people off (at least, some folk post “I looked at the forums after a hiatus and based on them I’m still not coming back.”) Yet there are also fun threads, civilized debates, CDI’s, and truly nasty posters getting infracted and banned.

My paid AA time isn’t up for a couple of weeks but it’s been a couple of weeks since I logged in. Any time I vaguely get the urge I just look at the AA forums and bam, the urge is gone thanks to the foulness there. Whereas I am frequently urged to a GW2 session just because someone posted something interesting to see in the game.

Most of the complaints here are constructive. The ones that aren’t get pointed out as ridiculous, with a remarkably low amount of bile for such a large online community. Rejoice, I say! Rejoice in how nice this forum is!

Quite. A lot of people talking about forum toxicity here don’t have the slightest clue about what real forum toxicity is. This community is one of the best in the MMO genre.

Nobody’s asking for a new class. Just the option for ranged DPS with no pet dependencies. That’s sufficient to fulfill the archer archetype, no? Rangers ARE the pet class. Rangers ARE NOT to be played as ranged-combat mains, as per the words of ArenaNet despite the misleading class description. Rangers ARE the byproduct of combining the original standalone Archer, Warden, and Beastmaster classes in early development of GW2 due to the lack of versatility each dedicated class would have had. I’m not talking about classes but roles. You cannot play a viable archer as a style of play in GW2, because that style doesn’t actually exist. That’s just a fact.

And most people which want the change want to play dedicated archers. Did you partake in the CDI at all?

Would be okay with ranger rifle, though I think melee staff with some support nature magic elements would be more fun, suitable, and entertaining. Who doesn’t want to hit someone over the head with a bifrost? :P

Thief really should just get longbow. There are already too many blinds available and the role is mostly fulfilled by the pistol. There is no dedicated archer build available in the game, though, and thief since the shortbow nerf has lacked a 1200 range attack/weapon altogether.

Pretty much the CDI only brought RtW, marginally faster pet response time, and what happened on 9/9 (although my suggestion included a lot of what was done, mine was done differently to avoid still-existing trait-dependencies/making traits be a smarter investment by making RtW passive and making the players choose between signets or remorseless). Beyond that, nothing will change. The developers downright refuse to make the pet optional and let archers have their way finally, and publicly stated this in the CDI despite the overwhelming support and at-times necessary requirements for making pets stowable such as from bouncing projectiles.

The problem is that longbow is also a relatively weak weapon. RF is bursty and PBS is good, but otherwise the kit is fairly mediocre. This is especially apparent in melee range, and the bow becomes very reliant on pet CC to deal enough damage in most cases. Unfortunately the idea is just one which won’t really work :\

Moral of the story? Demand for thief longbow/crossbow, since the archer isn’t fulfilled and never really will be by the ranger, the thief is down a weapon combination, and also lacks a 1200 ranged attack/attack weapon, and hope that the developers are willing to implement either a new weapon for thief or new weapons in general.

Haha, I am not, however my advice remains free as always

Lazze.9870:

DeceiverX.8361:

Because something something animals and rainbows nature animal something something BS.

Apparently a standalone archer is too difficult to allow, and anything more interesting too difficult to make fit into GW2 lore.

Ranger =/= Archer.

Precisely, and there is no option for the latter, despite approximately one-quarter to one-third of the playerbase as a whole desiring the latter over the former.

Pandaman.4758:

Well, there are only two reasons why people would stop complaining about anything:

1) It’s absolutely perfect in every way.

2) Everyone has given up on it.

Former is impossible and you don’t want the latter.

Nailed it.

That said, there is quite a bit of room for improvement, but nothing is perfect.

I think why most of the complaints originate is because everyone wants to play the game and those which are complaining genuinely on some level really like the game. The problem is that for many people there just isn’t a lot being done currently to keep people wanting to come back for more, so they complain in hopes to bring change. And I mean so in the nicest way: GW2 is a game made for everyone and on its foundation, has done a very successful job. It’s just currently a lot of people seem bored and want something fresh rather than just minor changes and alterations.

It’s not AFAIK. A thread was made about it and one of the game leads responded saying that in a player-driven economy, prices are up to what the sellers want them to be (I.E.: if this de-values ToT bags/is used to create a massive influx of tickets, then they do not care) since it does not affect the game (or profits) substantially.

If that has since changed, I don’t know. But I am currently operating under the response made about it a while ago.

Saturn.6591:

Fay.2357:

The thief is managing to do this because all of the opponents recorded in this video have the tactical command of a potato and the playing ability of a chestnut.

lmao

But yeah, iirc the guy who made the video even said that this build (without using weapons) can’t kill anyone who’s actually prepared. He also said that for example one of the eles he dueled in the video only lost in their first duel… the next four duels, the ele won. But since this is supposed to be a just-for-fun-video, he obviously didn’t include the fights where he lost (except the one at the very end of the video). Then again; he also claims that if he’d have actually used weapons, he’d have had quite an easy time killing those people again and again. That might be or might not be; but Dire+Perplexity+lots of interrupts is indeed quite strong and kinda hard to counter for most people (if you also have some other means to apply pressure, that is; which is certainly the case with the bleeds from caltrops/dodgetrops (great wordcreation btw lol)).

I think it goes without saying. Though comparing them to a potato might be a little too nice lol :P. P/D dire perplex thief is a disgustingly strong build which is extremely difficult to take down by any given class or build. While the people recorded weren’t playing well at all in those fights, it demonstrates that a given armor + rune setup is pretty out of control considering the recorder wasn’t exactly playing well either. It was funny and he was handicapped, but those plays were not exactly special. And in pretty much every fight he had, the dire gear’s durability kept him alive after taking damage. Weapons will help kill the enemy faster and maybe negate some hits, but beyond this, the damage taken would be pretty much identical. Given skilled players and the lack of aggressive evades, I’d say the outcomes would still have been similar.

I think a lot of it also has to do with aesthetics. Frankly, half of the reason I don’t use bear is because I think it’s ugly as all hell. :P
That said, custom skills and stats on pets like a trait line would be problematic. I won’t touch upon the details of developing a new system for it, but consider counterplay; you can’t predict what your opponent’s pet is going to do when you approach them. Is the Owl going to poison and immobilize? Will the wolf give AOE might? Does the pet deal burst damage or have a built-in KD on its auto-attack? It’s sadly something which wouldn’t really work. It’d also make smaller and more difficult-to-see pets used almost exclusively, as it would free up screen real-estate for PvE and make rangers and ranger-pets less visible/harder to click/watch animations in PvP modes.

Lazze.9870:

It’s a love-hate relationship.

Yup.

Either it lets you absolutely destroy something or you get absolutely destroyed by it haha. Being able to latch onto a stealthed thief or mesmer is pretty fantastic, and the damage it deals… well, it’s not small in terms of numbers :P

It’s a niche commitment weapon. There’s no going back once you enter combat, but you’re a menace while attacking. I think giving dodge rolls priority would probably be the only way I’d want it changed. It has a fun style to it and can function very nicely when used properly.

Knowing when to swap GS is the best advice, and depending on how much room you have, just keep kiting. If you’re really fast, you can get off an attack with the longbow and swap during the projectile movement to GS before the damage is registered so your weapon swapping won’t go on cooldown. This usually forces an engage and makes the enemy blow their gap-closers, letting you Swoop away from the fight to regain distance again while using either a pet cripple, immobilize, fear, or KD and throwing GS4 as another attack and cripple before swapping back to longbow for PBS and damage, with Hunter’s Shot and LR acting as a means of backup defense/disengage, further allowing enough time for a swap back to GS if they’re still alive and therefore letting you fight in melee properly.

The thing is, once they get to you, you have to either know they lack stability/blown cooldowns on gap-closers for long enough to let you keep using range/maintain the distance through positioning, or you have to fight with your GS. Depending on what you see for passive effect symbols on your enemies and their weapons, you can also get an inclination as to what their build is like. In some cases, it’s smartest just to let them come to you first (like a signet stab thief) and be ready for a twitch LR out of BV post-CnD/Mug followed by a quick GS4 block parry + pet CC with a follow-up GS5 CC lock + maul and heal to force them on cooldowns/low health, then swap to longbow for PBS while they finish getting up into more CC and unload barrage and RF into their corpse with Hunter’s Shot at the end for a reposition/stomp. The same can be said about other rangers, baiting them into PBS+RF on GS4’s block duration and then being able to swap back to longbow and hit them with your full damage.

Of course, if you really just have to escape or re-gain distance such as if they’re blowing a cooldown or something, de-target and swoop in the opposite direction pre-emptively to waste their skill until you can swap back to the bow again from a safe distance and pew pew at them.

Because something something animals and rainbows nature animal something something BS.

Apparently a standalone archer is too difficult to allow, and anything more interesting too difficult to make fit into GW2 lore.

Geiir.7603:

Belzebu.3912:

Since the OP is in a position similar to mine, I’ll kidnap this topic a bit.

I’m also new to thief and I want to start doing PvP exclusively, last night I tested a d/p build but I found out that with my ping (~300ms) I can’t do most of the teleport combos like heartseeker -> stealth for example, when I do that I end going somewhere and get lost completely.

So, can you guys suggest a more forgiving build, for example, I played d/d ele and shatter mesmer and it was fine, hopefully OP can enjoy such build too.

Thief is in general very unforgiving, so having high ping might make it difficult. S/P or S/D may be the best bet due to the extra survivability.

Pretty much this. If this proves too unforgiving as well then I’m sorry to say find another class. The profession is designed from the ground up to not take any hits, so if that’s proving to be a problem due to ping, there’s not much you can do beyond trying more evasive, tankier builds.

No, I’m pretty sure having more than double the base health pool and almost 70% more armor and the person playing explicitly using caltrops as a means of dealing damage through every single fight and in many cases NOT avoiding key bombs or attemping to negate damage in many instances or not having the endurance to do so is clearly not the result of those traits and damage avoidance effects being “the only thing keeping him alive.”

Not to mention he got low on several occasions/took damage which would have killed him on any other build from what is the direct result of not dodging and keeping low on endurance.

You’re seriously just QQ’ing now about thief base acro dodges being OP when what carried this player was dire perplex in every single fight.

I guess I’m one of the few in the minority that prefers the more subtle animations, even as a straight male.

I’ll quote myself about the running animation change as well. It managed quite a bit of upvotes.

DeceiverX.8361:

It wasn’t feminine before. It was over-exaggerated cutesy bordering on pathetic schoolgirl.

Women, or, rather, female characters, should be entitled to act in whatever way they please. That said, this doesn’t justify making an idle animation into something that can even be disputed as inherently more sexualized than a male’s. I’d actually be fine with both genders sharing a neutral idle animation pool. And that’s precisely the thing; we’re talking about an idle animation – something that has a default and cannot be changed. It’s therefore better to stick with the neutral animation. So what if players want to make their female characters look sexy? That’s what on-demand emotes are for. If you care to look sexy at a given time, you should be in control of that, but that doesn’t justify forcing players into having their characters to natively behave in such a way based upon their sexuality.

Clownmug.8357:

Dondagora.9645:

Clownmug.8357:

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

I do wonder if mesmer can achieve the same thing by having 3 clone death traits with DE (probably with energy sigil due to clone demands), mantra of distraction (plus harmonious mantra?) with perplexity, and condi duration food etc. But that would probably be pushing it since opponents need to be actively destroying clones.

You can’t create clones without a weapon.

Really? Nothing happens if you decoy with no weapons?

It still stealths and stun breaks as if you used it untargeted.

DeceiverX.8361:

Less to do with thief and more to do with Condi Dire/Perplex just being overpowered in roaming. Engi can do the same exact thing if not better.

Feline Grace and Vigorous Recovery + Withdraw makes this a lot easier for thief than other classes. I don’t see how engineer would be better unless they’re using kits which would disqualify them from a “no weapons” challenge.

No, what makes this work is Caltrops and interrupts on Sleight of Hand + BV + TW with Perplexity runes while just being tanky off of Dire gear. Engineers and mesmers have a substantially better utility exploit for Perplexity interrupt setups and more burst conditions.

It’s genuinely just Dire Perplex condi builds being overpowered in WvW roaming. As soon as these builds move to Carrion or Rabid specs and/or without Perplex they become fair if not relatively underwhelming. It’s a demonstration that class balance is pretty much futile as long as we have mechanics like this and hardcore might-stacking on defensive builds attached to gear which vastly supersedes other combinations.

I’m not defending condi thief, but this video has little to do with the evades as much as it has to do with the sheer killing potential of the abuse of a rune mechanic and how overall tanky dire gear is. Most of the evasion was used for offensive purposes for caltrops rather than defensively, demonstrating that evasion durability has little to do with the problem.

The problem lies not in class changes though, but just in might stacking builds + Runes of Strength. Frankly, it affects more than sPvP.

Could be that the DPS sets are given a little boost in overall numbers because of the inherently-high durability of all builds in sPvP relative to the rest of the game. Strictly speaking, there’s less reward in running DPS in most cases, and scaling on a lot of skills is cut paired with other stat capping, etc., to such an extent that they needed to increase the stats given to make the amulets somewhat viable.

Celestial, however, is OP on certain builds just because might stacking is too easy to do, so they reap the benefits of full DPS and being quite tanky.

Less to do with thief and more to do with Condi Dire/Perplex just being overpowered in roaming. Engi can do the same exact thing if not better.

It used to be a great skill early on. Getting two targets next to each other would have it deal more damage than a backstab. It’s currently just too expensive on initiative for the effect it’s only really ever used for, offers far too little damage, and is quite unreliable.

I’d rather see DB made into a slightly-weakened version of counterattack or something with the response hit being the condition stacks. It’d make D/D a lot more viable and give it the defense is needs.

T raw.4658:

DeceiverX.8361:

Faeyd.5094:

I don’t really get this position where some thieves think it should be toned down because it’s easier than their super hard man spec that takes real men to play.

Don’t you guys play all specs/modes depending on mood? Who’s actually playing ONE spec all the time in ONE game mode? I play SA heavy if I want to relax, last night I was playing pure glass signet burn build because I was fidgety and wanted to twitch and blammo people. I get WAY more reward (personal points, team support) by playing power so let the shadow lovers be so they can enjoy the game too (and I can enjoy it when I get bored of power specs and play defensive specs). All classes can be played this way… relaxing or twitchy. That’s good. Floor and Ceiling.

This game has been going the way of DAoC for too long now… whiners everywhere, class envy all over the shop and intra-class spec envy.

The problem with SA though is that it’s one way or another a massive source of thief nerfs elsewhere. There’s little room to buff/alter the class elsewhere when traits like SE and SR exist.

SE and SR aren’t that great. In all actuality 1v1 a non SA thief has the upper hand due to trickery.

Maybe not in sPvP, but go play around with them for a while in competitive WvW and then stop cold turkey running glass. You’ll discover your claim is quite false.

RollingBob.8502:

Does anyone use birds enough to comment on them?

From an animation viewpoint they irritate me less than any of the others on land. And they seem to be quick to engage fast moving mobs like in Orr. In fact they seem to pick up aggro pretty easy, maybe that is just me. I use a parrot on my warrior, maybe that biases me. I don’t count on pet DPS so much as want them to run interference.

Birds are weird. Quickening Screech has a longer animation time than the actual cast, so they’re slow to get into combat. They’re also pretty squishy. That said, they shell out immense damage – almost double that of most other pet classes, making them synergize nicely with RoA power builds since their crit rate is also quite high. I’ve personally had my Raven stacked with RoA might hit for along the lines of 6-7k per strike. From my experience, their F2 abilities once in combat have some of the fastest response time, also making the blinding birds useful for clutch damage avoidance or preventing stomps since they’re usable while downed.

I find them great as an alternate pet, and prefer Wolf/Raven the most due to reliable AoE fear and durability on the wolf with the raven providing a lot of skirmishing potential and damage.

Faeyd.5094:

I don’t really get this position where some thieves think it should be toned down because it’s easier than their super hard man spec that takes real men to play.

Don’t you guys play all specs/modes depending on mood? Who’s actually playing ONE spec all the time in ONE game mode? I play SA heavy if I want to relax, last night I was playing pure glass signet burn build because I was fidgety and wanted to twitch and blammo people. I get WAY more reward (personal points, team support) by playing power so let the shadow lovers be so they can enjoy the game too (and I can enjoy it when I get bored of power specs and play defensive specs). All classes can be played this way… relaxing or twitchy. That’s good. Floor and Ceiling.

This game has been going the way of DAoC for too long now… whiners everywhere, class envy all over the shop and intra-class spec envy.

The problem with SA though is that it’s one way or another a massive source of thief nerfs elsewhere. There’s little room to buff/alter the class elsewhere when traits like SE and SR exist.

I just want it at this point to be stowable in combat so I can stop taking double/triple damage on bouncing projectiles and being stealth fodder for thieves…

@red

You’re kind of lacking focus in your build. I see no synergy with the runes as you’re not running any shouts, and the very small amount of condition gear confuses me. It’s not going to have any impact on your condition damage and condi longbow doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense. I get that it works with axe, but I don’t think it’s what you’re after. For longbow main-set, I’d recommend something like this, which is what I’m currently using and finding to be very effective. It does require some practice as it is on the glassier side.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQJATRjMqUxaLLGsw1ig9gadAUAndHuXwI4aLKYVC-TVCBwAQ3f4sSQsKXwp+DgLJQWlU51FkSDBjnEQAAEgbezs5ND4m38m38m3sQACWAA-w

SotW is replaceable with SoS, although I like the stability and damage, and the gear is more or less a suggestion. Valkyrie parts can be considered if you want. Get familiar with quick-swapping GS as a defensive weapon for blocking projectiles on 4 and the evade/escape.

zaxon.6819:

ya wvw is like one big hotjoin server.. and it really dosent matter what spec you play. And you can play torch specs without pu. People fail to realize that your survivablitly comes alot from being stealthed,, more then it does from pu. Yes i get it the buffs are ok.. But the fact that you arent even a target in a fight matters alot more then PU itself.

I just want to say that this is not at all true. The survivability comes from dire gear with protection and aegis. I hit stealthed PU mesmers all the time because I know how to counterplay stealth well. The problem is that I can never kill them just because the build is so kitten durable and shells out so much damage at the same time while remaining mobile and punishing both pursuit and reset attempts.

Warrior is “good” for all game modes.

It excels in none but it’s useful in every.

Ele and Guard Excel in most. D/D Ele is bordering on OP.
Thief can excel, but it’s heavily-dependent on builds and matchups, and twitch reflexes and quick decision-making.
Mesmer is one of the most potent choices in WvW roaming.
Ranger is FoTM due to burst damage but has little use outside of melee skirmishing builds and poking people in WvW.
Engineer is OP.
Necros are gods in the hands of the right players in PvP scenarios, but don’t expect to be in record-setting speed-run dungeon groups in PvE.

It has to do largely with the complexity they’ve created, though. The meta builds are taken for reasons because their exclusive usefulness relative to other classes/builds is far better.

I’m not disputing that players will not choose the most efficient method. I actually said this exact same thing in my thread regarding why Ferocity was a failure before it was released (since it changed nothing regarding dungeon compositions as it was intended to and only increased toxicity while nerfing the effective yield of berserker’s damage per health which is already lower than PTV). I’m not also arguing against class compositions. The only way to incorporate other classes into a universal meta is make them all the same. Now, I’m not saying that some classes should not have their uses, either; just perhaps different areas of expertise across all modes. What I do believe, however, is that multiple build options within a class should be viable, even if these translate to different game modes and styles, and that this community is far too toxic about its meta strategies because simply put, the meta builds are just way too good relative to the rest.

One example being that I was recently kicked from a PvX guild, as were several other very old or even founding members, on the basis that we did not main classes/builds directly assigned to us by the guild leader for WvW. ANet talks about the NPE and player retention being a critical part of the game’s success, and my professional research in this industry makes me agree with them (though their execution of the NPE was poor but that’s another topic). With this said, toxicity in the community stemming from the meta being way too rigid with zero room for fluidity is ANet’s own fault by failing to make the game deliver on their promises of diversity, and has lead to many people just leaving the game. Yes, players are going to try to build most-optimally, but that does not excuse an absolutely abysmal balancing/role systems job where most specs are considered so non-viable that it leads to players not playing alongside their friends.

In most cases in solo roaming, though, experimental builds do not work, and you are often still pigeon-holed into building -condition food because of the insanity of the condition meta we’re in, truly also inhibiting build diversity.