Guild Wars 2

GADefence.5634:

I do adore dego’s logic, it’s like if we went back to Doom’s day. He’d be blasting FPS do not have jumping and anyone who tries to add jumping isn’t making an FPS as FPS’ do not have jumping so we’re all obviously wrong and stupid.

I won’t lie that at the moment I can’t. That being said, a few probably will (I really do not feel like booting up MMOdatabase and spending half an hour arguing with you here). That said, minecraft doesn’t have tier progression. Neither did the sims. Amongst the best selling games ever, right?

Or how about the face book games that rank up millions upon millions of players a month despite basically being filler with no tier progression other then cool/pretty items? (Yes, you can technically argue that farmville has tier since I think you at some point unlock a 3×3 plow from what I saw my mom play of it, but it looked like you could buy that early – that’s not progression, that’s annoying you into buying it. Please don’t be stupid enough to argue this without understanding it). Holy crap, that’s more then a lot of the none-world of war craft MMOs combined! In a game with no tiers! Holy shnazz!

This game promised us no gear tiers, was doing well, and could have added stuff like guild halls to keep us happy and busy. Instead, nexon deceided to buy it out, change the game’s progress completely, and well . . . I don’t have the metrics, but from what I noticed logging into random locations, it looks like LA is filled with more people yet the rest of the world has dropped. The overall looks like more people dropped then joined.

Time will tell won’t it? I predict F2P by next years unless Nexon lets go and ANet can do some damage control.

“You guys can’t name any other TRUE MMO, that have gear stat progression, because there are none. "

I would like to point out that the reason for that is simple, and the very same reason that until jumping became standard FPS didn’t bother adding it.

It’s par the course. They can get away with it, but guess what? Wow, 30% subscription loss. Name me another MMO with over 3 million players, look at facebook and tell me the 6~ multi game million players you see there isn’t that same.

I also assume you think PS2 isn’t a real MMO.

Farmville, Minecraft, and The Sims aren’t really Primarily PVP games are they, I really don’t know, I don’t get into those games. Those games are about building stuff right? So how are those games anything like GW2? Apples and oranges if you ask me.

PS2 is an MMOFPS, a bad one, but it’s an MMO nonetheless. With gear progression to boot :P

Derk.3189:

DegoLocc.5976:

Treeline.3865:

Progression != Grind

No progression=bored at endgame, move on to another game, which is what casuals tend to do anyway.

Oh, but almighty GW2 is ALL endgame, right from the get go. You love adhering to what the company says SO much so you better believe this too.

I have been playing and enjoying MMO’s that play this way for almost 2 decades. Nobody tells me how to feel what to like. I play what I like, and don’t play what I don’t like. It’s simple.

Point is, I have seen this dog and pony show many times before, and you guys and all your complaints, will never change the fact that this game will always have some form of progression, where the guy with the uber stuff has an advantage on those who don’t. So go get your uber stuff so you can be viable, or be like me and don’t bother, just play how you want, and when you do beat someone who out gears you, you can then know the bliss that I play for.

Go underdogs. Down with bland arcade predictable variable-less mindless gameplay.

Strang.8170:

DegoLocc.5976:

Take gear progression out the game, might as well take gear out the game, and then what do you have? Super smash bros on a large scale? Another arcade beat em up. Stat progression with gear, gives battles interesting variables.

Cosmetic progression(it´s enough, and frankly i don´t know why you bought the game if it´s not…), horizontal progression: trying out new playstyles (without it taking weeks to regear), trying out new professions(without it taking months to level and gear them up), actualy experiencing the whole world (i call bullkitten on many of the players claiming to have done all the content)…vertical gear treadmill is not the one and only way of making progression.

We give the game a power plateu, we have a massive persistent ever changing world where the character you created and the amount of skill you can play with it determine outcome of your battles. Where you as a players are what matters, instead of data on a spreadsheet.

It’s simply not enough, and I bought this game because despite what their “manifesto said” I knew the moment they announced that they would raise level cap down the road that this game would be your standard grind. And that is good for the games longevity.

You guys can’t name any other TRUE MMO, that doesn’t have gear stat progression, because there are none. If it didn’t have that no one would play for years and years and years. GW1 was a fluke, it wasn’t an MMO and there is no other game like it. Either move on, or go back to playing it. And just accept what most MMO’s players want because that is who Anet is wisely after.

Treeline.3865:

Progression != Grind

No progression=bored at endgame, move on to another game, which is what casuals tend to do anyway.

Terok.7315:

DegoLocc.5976:

Terok.7315:

DegoLocc.5976:

Derk.3189:

DegoLocc.5976:

Basically they like the idea of MMO’s but don’t like the grind. So they want a more arcade type game.

I think they should play games more suited for them, ie: league of legends, and fighter beat em ups, where there is no gear.

They forget, if we all had the same gear out the gate, what’s the point of even having gear? Cosmetics? Yea we’ll see how long that holds your average MMO player.

Last I heard, 7 years+. Guild Wars 1 says it all.

But guild wars 1 is NOT an MMO, it’s not even marketed as one.
Playing guild wars 1 hardly means you’re an MMO player. lol.

Define MMO.

And the point is, Name one successful REAL MMO, that has no stat progression. And I will stop telling players that they are looking for their casual game in the wrong genre.

I don’t think I can. “Real” MMO to you seems to be a world of warcraft-esque game (i.e. treadmill). So trying to fine a non-treadmill game given your understanding of “real” MMO is a pointless endeavor.

world of warcraft is a horrible example of what an MMO should be, but it is still an MMO by definition, while GW1 clearly is not.

And aside from GW1 name another game you feel is an MMO, that has no gear progression, and you’ll be pressed to. And not just by my definition, but by the definition of the genre itself.

There are none, and there is a reason. Without it, it would just be a hop in and play arcade game flavor of the week. MMO’s force ppl to keep coming back, and some of us like to work our way up the ladder. Some of us will play this game for years. And new gear stats are breathes of fresh air.

GW2 already said they would raise level cap at some point, will you all be up in arms when that happens too, because all level 80 gear will be crap at that point, it will be about the level 90 gear. That’s how it works, WOW, didn’t start that, they copied the formula from much older MMO’s.

Onshidesigns.1069:

DegoLocc.5976:

Strang.8170:

DegoLocc.5976:

And the point is, Name one successful REAL MMO, that has no stat progression. And I will stop telling players that they are looking for their casual game in the wrong genre.

Because everything that´s been succesful in the past is automaticaly succesful in the future. And nothing new can ever be as good.

Take gear progression out the game, might as well take gear out the game, and then what do you have? Super smash bros on a large scale? Another arcade beat em up. Stat progression with gear, gives battles interesting variables.

“Stat progression with gear, gives battles interesting variables”
Horizontal progression that has more interchangeable skills and combos gives more interesting variables.

Their are no interesting variables in vertical progression. It’s all about overpowering your enemy and not skill.

That’s a matter of opinion, I find league of legends extremely boring, and unrewarding. I am sure, a good portion of MMO players feel the same way as I regarding the matter, cosmetic clothes, and limited interchangable skills are not enough to quench my endgame thirst, In fact, I like coming up as the underdog, while I am out geared, it’s the reason I have been playing since launch and just hit 80, I love the challenge of being the underdog. And there isn’t anything you, or extra credit helium voiced badly drawn cartoons can tell me about power creep being bad. I love the power creep, gives me something to try and kill for sport.

Strang.8170:

DegoLocc.5976:

And the point is, Name one successful REAL MMO, that has no stat progression. And I will stop telling players that they are looking for their casual game in the wrong genre.

Because everything that´s been succesful in the past is automaticaly succesful in the future. And nothing new can ever be as good.

Take gear progression out the game, might as well take gear out the game, and then what do you have? Super smash bros on a large scale? Another arcade beat em up. Stat progression with gear, gives battles interesting variables.

Gwartham Haldane.8459:

DegoLocc.5976:

Basically they like the idea of MMO’s but don’t like the grind. So they want a more arcade type game.

I think they should play games more suited for them, ie: league of legends, and fighter beat em ups, where there is no gear.

They forget, if we all had the same gear out the gate, what’s the point of even having gear? Cosmetics? Yea we’ll see how long that holds your average MMO player.

I dont want a arcade style game. I just dont want to end up in a game where the whole point of playing that game is to continually play chase the gear.

Lets see played UO for years with no gear grind.

Lets see played EQ for years with no gear grind. Game was to vast and open to have what is considered a “gear grind”.

Lets see played Dark Age of Camelot for years with no gear grind. They added a gear grind called Trials of Atlantis, and right after that the game went downhill and started losing subs.

Sadly, it would seem to me your more of a “WoW was my first MMO” type of person, where you don’t know anything but a gear grind so you have decided MMO=gear grind.

And lets also try and remember that wow introduced all them rts/beat em up players to the MMO world.

Actually I don’t play WOW, but played the other three you mentioned, and they all had stat progression, where higher level players with high level gear would pwn your face. AND for DAoC TOA brought stat changes? LOL, I played DAoC from beta, and there was ALWAYS stat progression, don’t know what you’re talking about, hell frontiers expansion wasn’t even the first to have stat progression. Realm Rank? Stat progression before that too. What are you on about? I think someone thinks they know something they really don’t.

Terok.7315:

DegoLocc.5976:

Derk.3189:

DegoLocc.5976:

Basically they like the idea of MMO’s but don’t like the grind. So they want a more arcade type game.

I think they should play games more suited for them, ie: league of legends, and fighter beat em ups, where there is no gear.

They forget, if we all had the same gear out the gate, what’s the point of even having gear? Cosmetics? Yea we’ll see how long that holds your average MMO player.

Last I heard, 7 years+. Guild Wars 1 says it all.

But guild wars 1 is NOT an MMO, it’s not even marketed as one.
Playing guild wars 1 hardly means you’re an MMO player. lol.

Define MMO.

MMO stands for MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE. Game but we all know it goes much deeper than that.

GW1 was heavily instanced coRPG, and the guys who made it marketed it as such.

And the point is, Name one successful REAL MMO, that has no stat progression. And I will stop telling players that they are looking for their casual game in the wrong genre.

Evagal.2584:

DegoLocc.5976:

Orion.7264:

DURR HURR IF THERES NO TREADMILL FOR MAX GEAR A GAME IS STATIC DURR HURR

We’ve seen the road this goes down in MMO’s, none of the scenarios we present are hypothetical. They are based on past evidence and experience. Good luck with your dying game.

Name one successful true MMO without gear progression.

GW1 was not a MMO, it was a co opRPG with some multiplayer tacked on.

Gw2 is an MMO, and a good one I might add. I am not surprised that Anet is thinking ahead and seeing the big picture for the betterment of their players and the game in the long run.

Yeah no, all those multiplayer aspects of GW1 were clearly tacked on.
Really?
The only reason people say “durr gw1 isnt an mmo” is because it isn’t an open world MMO.
It’s still technically an MMORPG.
Massively (yes,theres tons of players to play with,everywhere) Multiplayer (self explanatory) Online (duh) Role Playing Game (clearly)

No, people say it’s not an MMO, because it’s just not. It’s even marketed to players as a CORPG.

So, you really have no leg to stand on in that regard. But please continue to tell me how it’s an MMO.

Or for that matter, just name one true MMO that there is no gear progression, and all players are equal.

You talked about “proven experience and evidence” supporting your claim that gear progression is bad for MMO’s. So let’s see it? I’ll wait.

Because from where I am sitting, ALL MMO’s have stat progression. And it’s a proven science that it DOES work. And it works VERY well.

Derk.3189:

DegoLocc.5976:

Basically they like the idea of MMO’s but don’t like the grind. So they want a more arcade type game.

I think they should play games more suited for them, ie: league of legends, and fighter beat em ups, where there is no gear.

They forget, if we all had the same gear out the gate, what’s the point of even having gear? Cosmetics? Yea we’ll see how long that holds your average MMO player.

Last I heard, 7 years+. Guild Wars 1 says it all.

But guild wars 1 is NOT an MMO, it’s not even marketed as one.
Playing guild wars 1 hardly means you’re an MMO player. lol.

Orion.7264:

DURR HURR IF THERES NO TREADMILL FOR MAX GEAR A GAME IS STATIC DURR HURR

We’ve seen the road this goes down in MMO’s, none of the scenarios we present are hypothetical. They are based on past evidence and experience. Good luck with your dying game.

Name one successful true MMO without gear progression.

GW1 was not a MMO, it was a co opRPG with some multiplayer tacked on.

Gw2 is an MMO, and a good one I might add. I am not surprised that Anet is thinking ahead and seeing the big picture for the betterment of their players and the game in the long run.

Basically they like the idea of MMO’s but don’t like the grind. So they want a more arcade type game.

I think they should play games more suited for them, ie: league of legends, and fighter beat em ups, where there is no gear.

They forget, if we all had the same gear out the gate, what’s the point of even having gear? Cosmetics? Yea we’ll see how long that holds your average MMO player.

Correct Naughty :P

Columba.9730:

DegoLocc.5976:

Revolution.6301:

caiomacos.1694:

Martrim.1078:

This is an MMO

MMO’s are based on “more effort, more reward”
Stop trying to destroy a perfectly good MMO with the constant whining that all should be equal.

Stop trying to destroy a perfectly good MMO with the constant whining that you deserve better stats because you have more free time.

+1

Look most of us have lives. So making it more towards the folks that can spend 6+hrs playing everyday is ubserd.
The only happy people are with those with to much time on their hands. As for the rest of us…

MMO’s aren’t made for casuals in mind, by design, not even this one. Nothing new here why are ppl surprised?

GW1 was.

But there is no debate, just fact.
GW1 wasn’t an MMO, it was listed as a co opRPG with some multiplayer tacked on. The actual game world was instanced, and you only seen other players who were in your group, no one else. Basically the game was hardly massive, and was more a giant dungeon, for your group.

GW2, is an MMO, and MMO players expect progression, casuals don’t want it. But by definition, MMO’s are timesinks, and not designed for casuals.

NaughtyProwler.8653:

DegoLocc.5976:

I hope they keep rolling our new uber gear ever few months, crosses fingers

If I tell you once a week that your HP and charisma have been boosted by +5, will that satiate your desire for BIG NUMB3RS?

Only if I had to go through something brutal to achieve it, yea. But if we all got it, and all had the same stuff, what would be the point of even having gear?

Revolution.6301:

caiomacos.1694:

Martrim.1078:

This is an MMO

MMO’s are based on “more effort, more reward”
Stop trying to destroy a perfectly good MMO with the constant whining that all should be equal.

Stop trying to destroy a perfectly good MMO with the constant whining that you deserve better stats because you have more free time.

+1

Look most of us have lives. So making it more towards the folks that can spend 6+hrs playing everyday is ubserd.
The only happy people are with those with to much time on their hands. As for the rest of us…

MMO’s aren’t made for casuals in mind, by design, not even this one. Nothing new here why are ppl surprised?

aliksyian.7642:

Gear = time spent.
Gear =/= talent. Gear =/= skill.

In order to have a level playing field for players from “24/7 no sleep” to “a few hours a week”, gear should not be a factor in success.

Would you play chess if the other guy got three queens, simply because he’d been playing longer? (Some of you are probably saying ‘Yes, I love a challenge!’. Somehow I doubt you’d play that way for very long)

Level playing fields are boring. Go underdogs!
Variables make any battle more interesting.

I hope they keep rolling our new uber gear ever few months, crosses fingers

NaughtyProwler.8653:

DegoLocc.5976:

People are overreacting…….. As usual on an MMO forum.

I think you might be underreacting.

Because 10 people raged on a review recently? LOL, you are one funny poster, I love reading your stuff. :P

dalendria.3762:

Here is a link to the GW2 Amazon.com page.

http://www.amazon.com/Guild-Wars-2-Pc/product-reviews/B001TOQ8X4/ref=cm_cr_dp_see_all_btm?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

Many people have posted recently and rated the product low due the change in design philosophy.

Some people use the customer reviews to make purchase decisions.

Is this really what they wanted for this fun game? Why completely undermine your stated and delivered design approach?

This says it all:

One of several increasing 1 rating product feedback.

6 of 12 people found the following review helpful
1.0 out of 5 stars Not what was promised., November 19, 2012
By
Patricia M. Jackson – See all my reviews
= Fun:1.0 out of 5 stars
This review is from: Guild Wars 2 (Video Game)
Arenanet, the company behind this game, made ambitious promises that they were going to deliver a non-gear-centric, grind-free game that would be about horizontal progression and aesthetics. And that’s how it was…for three short months. Now, even after such a short time, they’ve apparently felt it necessary to start introducing new tiers of gear to chase after, and they’ve already stated that more are coming. I’m sorry to say it, but it has become just another failed me-too MMO cash grab. Spend your hard-earned money on something else.

322 reviews, mostly 5 stars, yea, this game is in real danger of failing alright……

Sarcasm/

People are overreacting…….. As usual on an MMO forum.

The artistic scope in this game, and even the loading screens is phenomenal, and I do hope the artists responsible get the praise they deserve.

You can 100% eternal battlegrounds, within 2 hours without engaging in pvp if your slick. Or at the very worst you might die a couple times, but still nothing to really complain about. It’s do able.

Thanks Anet, the event was fun, was a bit laggy during phase one, but the rest of the weekend was smooth for me. I think it’s awesome you guys are going all out with our events, even without having a community that pays a sub, it shows you guys, and gals are dedicated to bringing us new and exciting content.

I also love the fact that it was one time, makes the world seem that much more real and subject to permanent change to the world.

Just wanted to say thanks, and show you guys that there are those of us who did really enjoy the event, and the halloween was A TON of fun as well.

Post in here if you also really enjoyed the lost shores event, let’s try to keep this thread positive, thanks, have a great day!

Serbaayuu.3051:

This makes me really, really sad.

I’ve always wanted a game with one-time events that I can actually miss, that make me feel like I’m shaping the world, and have IMPACT because they don’t repeat every three hours for a full day or two.

And now, with this survey… well, it’s safe to assume that the people taking it will tell ArenaNet that they HATE HATE HATE one time events!

Why can’t the players who want a good game have nice things? Instead, the incredibly vocal group of players who hate anything that doesn’t get them the prime loot is going to be coddled. Again. And the players who want a game with unique events will be completely screwed, as always.

Maybe the next MMO will have them.

All we can do is vote and let them know a good number of us DID enjoy the one time event. It being a one time thing makes it that much more charming.

Akacia.1583:

they shouldn’t need real statistics to know the event weekend was a massive failure on many, many levels.

That being said it should open their eyes up to focus on the real problems with this game instead of just pushing junk out there, all the junk does is cause people to leave and hate on the game more – and the hate is fully warranted over this past weekend from the start to finish, from every little sub quest to the final battle. Every single thing was broken at some point.

The dungeon is the ONLY good thing to come out of it and that has a SERIOUS amount of work still needed to fix all those bugs in there.

Really instead of someone reading the first 100 survey’s they should just tell them to go fix something broken and get back to patching the issues of the game – oh and give us back the patch notes. Players want to know when things are fixed it looks good when you tell us that.

I enjoyed it. It was a lot of fun, and I got a 20 slot box!

scinder.8315:

Don’t see the real issues that people are complaining about, to be honest.

Exotic gear is very easy to obtain and yet you don’t need it to be successful.

Been told by a friend that I am not doing myself justice by not getting the best exotic gear I can get.
This was a month ago not after this patch. People have this mentality and have always had it.
It isn’t anything new.

Gear grind complaints after this patch? Seriously? People have been ‘grinding’ in this game since the beginning.
What exactly do you call running the same events over and over and over for loot, gold, karma..

I played GW 1 for a while and i’ve played GW 2 for a while. I much prefer the latter.

Oh and this is a very casual game. I can do whatever I want, whenever I want.
Don’t like what other are asking for? Arrange something yourself. Its not hard.

Yes, correct, ppl forget two things. GW1 was NOT an MMO.

GW2 however is.

lol grow up ppl. its just a game, and a very good one at that.

Debsylvania.7396:

People may be listing these items on the TP for 400-500g, but I have a hard time believing they’re actually selling at that price.

I participated in the final event last Sunday and didn’t get a precursor and don’t know anybody that did. I don’t doubt that there were very rare occasions where someone may have gotten two, but those had to be extremely rare occurrences.

this

Ozbaab.5021:

I feel terrible for everyone who can’t seem to see any difference between GW2 and WoW, I really do. I mean what if I too were naive and blind?

You do realize that WOW was far from the first MMO, right? WOW took that aspect from much older MMO’s. Endgame gear progression is a staple in MMO’s. It works, some of us like it. Even battlefield and cod first person shooters have progression as it’s good for the games longevity.

Anet is smart to have gear progression, if not 80 would be a boring place.

Yes, they should be hard to obtain, and no, simple cosmetic character progression is not enough to hold me as an endgame player.

Liquid.5961:

What problem? I actually like playing the game to get something worthwhile.

Me too.

I’m happy with the new gear, Anet, thanks for the best MMO, and thanks for making sure you maintain long term players by adding new content and gear, so our characters can continue grow past 80, thanks for not making this an arcade game.

I will be playing for years, as long as you keep it fresh and provide constant growth.

A step in the right direction for sure.

There is just as many ppl who want gear progression as those who don’t. Anet clearly made their decision, and they already have your money, so it’s up to YOU if you still play or not.

I know I will be.

GADefence.5634:

“Even COD had weapon and gear progression. I don’t see level 5 guys crying on BF3 forums because the max level 50 has better tricked out guns….

And hitting 50 in any Battlefield game IS a grind.

Grind is good, Imagine starting off BF3 will weapon and gear kits? Get old fast huh? That’s what you guys are trying to do here. That’s why it never works in MMO’s they aren’t meant to be “fair” for all. Just like life, you get what you put into it."

Actually, the last CoD game I played was 4 and the guns were pretty much 100% balanced. I only played BF:BC2 and the strongest gun was the starting SMG by far.

Also, there’s a few things – 1: Does everyone QUIT when they get 50? Didn’t think so. 2: Is it required? No, but played do like seeing the pop up that says “new X unlocked”. Generally most of those games don’t give you more powerful equipment, but more variety as you level.

And 3: It takes way WAY less time then 90 hours to max out all the FPS’ I played short of I think blacklight, which might take about 90~ hours.

If you hit 50 in bf3 in under 90 hours, then you are a gaming gawd and I bow before you.
And you’re wrong, cod and bf3 series for example, both have the best guns unlocked at the highest levels, especially the sniper/recon classes.

Conclusion is, progression, or treadmill works, it gives the games longevity, more than if they gave you everything at once, and everyone had the same stuff. Variety and variables are good, especially in MMO’s, it’s good for players, it’s good for game makers.

Gameplayers that disagree are free to go play arcade games until they bore themselves to death and jump from game to game, while MMO players stick with the same games for years, and most pay monthly to play, it’s a proven science, it works, we as players overall like progression. It isn’t going away anytime soon.

Anishor.6921:

DegoLocc.5976:

Donkey here! HEEEEHAWWWW!

I love the end game gear progression. Hitting a wall and never growing from 80 is a horribad idea in my opinion.

So why aren’t you playing one of the games designed for vertical progression from the get go. That have a lot more content for you to run through?

Rift? TOR? WOW? Aion?

Because all those games suck? And it has nothing to do with their gear progression. LOL.

The only game I can think of that did gear progression, and did it horribly wrong and that’s why it failed, was WARHAMMER online.

And I’m here because unlike you, I’m happy with gw2. “Why are you still here?” would be the better question?

GADefence.5634:

“If you like the game you are apparently playing with blinders on and simply don’t understand.

While if you post consistent negativity, you are a shining light to clueless ANet devs who desperately need your input to make thier game successful."

I like how it’s more of "If you like the current direction the game took, you’re not kitten

If you didn’t like it, you’re kitten "

The base issue is : What were you expecting? We were expecting what was advertised.

If you buy a CoD, you got what was advertised going in. If they, one day, updated it so it was UT, you did not get what was advertised, you got what someone else wanted. At this, the people who like UT will tell you to shut up, and the people who wanted CoD will complain. Yet, the people before hand who wanted UT were complaining, while the CoD players asked why you didn’t buy UT instead.

This is the issue, the fact most of you don’t see it surprises me to no end.

Even COD had weapon and gear progression. I don’t see level 5 guys crying on BF3 forums because the max level 50 has better tricked out guns….

And hitting 50 in any Battlefield game IS a grind.

Grind is good, Imagine starting off BF3 with ALL weapon and gear kits? Get old fast huh? That’s what you guys are trying to do here. That’s why it never works in MMO’s they aren’t meant to be “fair” for all. Just like life, you get what you put into it.

Donkey here! HEEEEHAWWWW!

I love the end game gear progression. Hitting a wall and never growing from 80 is a horribad idea in my opinion.

Raf.1078:

Interesting to watch the developing dynamic.

If you like the game you are apparently playing with blinders on and simply don’t understand.

While if you post consistent negativity, you are a shining light to clueless ANet devs who desperately need your input to make thier game successful.

The forums on every game out there shares this same mindset.

Its become so predictable, its downright hilarious.

On the nailhead exactly, LOL.

Gibson.4036:

Greetings, a pleasure to not have to debate with a lil snot for once, lol.
I read your whole post, but have to go soon and don’t have the time to break out everything in qoute’s like you did. But I’ll try to cover what struck me.

Firstly, our experiences obviously differ In the last two days I have seen more “whining” posts from the same 20 people, than I have heard actual constructive feedback supporting their argument, I mean the forum is riddled with, “how could you anet?” and “i’m leaving” threads, that are horribly insulting to the game makers.

In my experience, it’s the “I want it now, because I don’t have time” generation, and “why should you have anything that I don’t just because you play more than me” guys that I find extremely selfish, they want the game to be “dumbed down” and less complex for their needs because they simply “don’t have the time”.

Well there are those of us, that like taking the time, and having things to show for it, that’s why we love MMO’s over some console arcade game. I blame WOW, for the dumbing down of MMO’s and making them easily accessible for a crowd of arcade kiddies where never in the mindset of developers of old classic hardcore MMO’s

Now GW2 is NOT hardcore, IMO it’s already too easy. But, that’s another issue for another thread.

I think in reality people who want a simple, no time involved MMO, or something similar to what gw1 was are not looking for an MMO. I really think they are looking for another game like gw1 which is not an MMO. I don’t know where to tell them to look.

GW2 is a traditional, new age MMO, there is always going to be a sort of progression, and those who have been playing the longest will always have some, SMALL advantage, if players can’t cope with what that means, they should probably jump kitten now.

Another thing, I think you may have me pegged for a PVER, when I am not. Sure I play a lot of this games pve content, because I appreciate how anet executed it, not to say I didn’t wish it was more of a challenge.

I am actually a PVPer, and I love going up against someone who outstats me, makes it that much better when I beat them Being the underdog is really gratifying and I love it.

My main is only 78, with nothing but trash gear at this point, and I still think those who put in the massive effort to get legendary weapons, SHOULD have more than just a cosmetic award. Someday I will have one, but until then, I’ll probablly get lumped but quite a few that already do have one. But I am totally fine with that. That’s one of the charming things about MMO’s that make them different from other multiplayer games.

The media blog I mentioned is some video that has been linked about this topic, where these know it alls claim that “power creep” is bad for games, and basically says all MMO’s should try to be more arcade like League of Legends. They like everyone esle that whines, say they hate power creep, but give no real ideas how to do away with it, without turning MMO’s into standard arcade multiplayer games, which grow tiresome fast,.You can watch the hogwash if you go to youtube and search extra credit powercreep.

GADefence.5634:

“GW1 was not an MMO, it was a co op RPG, with some multiplayer tacked on.

GW2 is an MMO.

My point is, I fail to see why ppl get upset about a game being what it is supposed to be, an MMO. You obviously said it yourself, you like the “idea” of MMO’s, but to me it seems like you are more into RPG’s."

I love this malarchy. Next thing Cities XL was never an MMO and neither is Eve.

Also, while I’m at it, Portal isn’t a first person because it lacks the shooter part. It’s a 2D puzzle game, obviously.

MMO means massively online multiplayer. RPG means role playing game. Put them toghether and it means massively multiplayer online role playing game. Gear grind is a factor of it that can be turned on off. Fantasy is a factor of it that can be turned on off. What you need is two things : You control a dude, arrange his equipment, have many people online at once.

FPS means First Person Shooter – jumping is optional but generally there (it’s not in doom), aiming down the iron sights is optional but generally there (not in UT), all you need is two things : First person view, and a gun.

Next I expect to hear dawn of war 2 and supreme commander aren’t strategy games because gasp they aren’t starcraft. Obviously only starcraft must represent all strategy games and all strategy games without it’s exact setup must be some sort of “overland control game”.

GW2 was advertised as an MMO. GW2 was advertised as no gear progression. GW2 changed it’s advertisment and we are angry. Stop trying to tell me what I do and do not like based on what you think. Turkey and chicken are both poultry no matter how hard you scream turkey is not.

On a side note – I also love the idea of MobAs but have yet to play a balanced one. Does that mean I also hate mobas?

So instead of contributing to the thread, you rather throw a wall of text at me, questioning what I said. Being rude, and condescending little troll, because I know what I’m talking about and you don’t? Is that it?

Ok, I’ll bite, Guild Wars 1, was not an MMO, it is actually listed as a Co op RPG. Anet themselves will tell you that. Go ahead look it up.

Now, when you’re ready to sit at the adult table and contribute constructively, we will all be waiting. Until then, like your mom used to tell you, “If you haven’t anything nice to say, then don’t say nothing at all.”

Scourge.4317:

What gets me are the ones that feel the need to let everyone know they are quitting. Its never constructive i never see anyone try to have a civil discussion about what they think would make what they don’t like better. Its always “these features are terribad and the game is going to sink if its not changed”. And the ones that try to bring others into their pit of sorrow going on about what they hate then asking if anyone else hates it like they do. How does that help make the game better? How is it constructive?

There have been many constructive post but they always get pushed off the front page and disappear.

Most of those, are just ranting, and aren’t going anywhere.
They just tend to overreact, and think their one leaving thread will change Anet’s mind…..

Real players who are unhappy, just leave in most cases, and don’t bother with the forums.

xtorma.1283:

DegoLocc.5976:

xtorma.1283:

DegoLocc.5976:

GADefence.5634:

“There is always going to be players who just don’t get MMO’s and want everything handed to them with no time put in, they are looking for a “fair” arcade beat em up, in the wrong place.”

I love how I’ve played and gotten bored of nearly all MMOs on the market and generally enjoy most of them for a bit (until I need to start 100% grinding) so I must obviously want to play mortal kombat.

Sorry mate, square hole round peg, stop trying to force me through your pre conceptions.

Do you see the irony? You end up leaving because most MMO’s make you grind. Well that’s because that’s how MMO’s work. My point being, you are looking for a game that is not an MMO, but yet still trying to find it while playing MMO’s.

You’re welcome for the revelation.

Most mmo’s presidents didn’t create press releases saying you don’t have to grind either. I don’t need to link it to you right?

Competitive 8 vs 8’s with no attatchment to your level, all players have access to same skills, and gear, completely fair.
No questing, you just participate instead and get xp and credit…
That’s two common MMO “grinds” that GW2 killed right there off the bat.
Yea seems he kept his word to me…….. This game has less grind than any other true MMO out there.

That being said of course there is other aspects of the game, of this MMO, that need to have progression. If you can’t see past your own selfishness to see the whole long term picture, I really don’t know what else to say to you.

I don’t agree or disagree with you. I just think you have rose colored glasses on , and want to try and make people feel bad because they don’t own a pair. I play the game every day, and i love it. That does not take away from the fact that labeling people as whiners for expressing thier feeling about a product they bought is petty, especially when they have some cause to be concerned.

If I came off that way I apologize, I never called anyone in particular a whiner, if they had a constructive post. And I don’t have rose colored glasses or think the game is flawless.

But I DO have a personal opinion as well as the foresight to see that this game will need a form of end game gear progression, as long as it is an MMO. I may come off to be a strong debater, and not one who argues, or cries. I have just been around long enough to see this debate 100x over, on 20 other different games, over the last almost 20 years.

But this game is different, it really is. I respect Anet for what they have done, I can see where they are trying to go, and I’d hate to see them get derailed by a group of inexperienced players who don’t really know what they want, or whats best for them. Or have only played one other game they thought was an MMO guild wars 1.

Now that isn’t everyone of course, plenty of ppl are able to think for themselves, but a good number are also totally clueless, and then come to the forums spouting off about something their guildie told them was going to happen in the game. Instead of finding out for themselves and reading what the devs have said they plan to do, not what the players think this “is the start of them doing”.

Gibson.4036:

There are two kinds of people in this world. Those that understand the complexities of people, and those that think there are only two kinds of people in this world.

Which is to say, your simplification into “whiners on the forum” and “people just enjoying the game” is an oversimplification to the point of being meaningless.

I enjoy this game a lot. I tend to think about it when I’m not playing it, and look forward to when I can play it again. It frequently gives me a sense of wonder as I explore the world.

There are, however, choices I don’t like that the game’s owners have made. They have provided an official forum, and say they want feedback. So when I don’t like something, I make sure to let them know.

Does that make me a forum whiner? Or someone just enjoying the game?

Not at all, when done constructively like you managed to do here with your post.

In most cases however, the ppl who want to do away with gear progression come on here and rage about how they where lied to by Anet, and overreact in a number of ways, including, threatening quitting the game, trolling, or just generally getting frustrated because in their argument against those who support character growth past 80, they really just don’t have a leg to stand on.

That’s just how I see it anyhow.

I think 80% of people who want this game to be 100% fair for everyone with no gear progression are just lazy, and need a reason to blame some game mechanic for their mistakes and failures in game. They are the “entitled” “I want it now” generation. They are the ones who buy a singler player game, use all the cheat codes for the good weapons or w/e, and are completely bored and done with the game hours later, but yet wonder why.

They eat their sweets right before dinner and spoil their appetite, eat their carrot on the stick too soon, and think it’s the games fault. Never questioning their own actions, or caring to hear from MMO players of old who know and realize that pure cosmetic endgame gear is simply not enough to continue to play the same character for years.

The other 20% of guys on the other hand, have legit arguments for their side, and I respect them and their opinions way more than the foremost.

However in my opinion, endgame gear progression = good thing, despite what "penny arcade, or some helium voiced cartoon on “extra credit thinks”

Have a great day everyone, and lets all try to be more civil and not personally attack others who are respectful, but have a different opinion.

xtorma.1283:

DegoLocc.5976:

GADefence.5634:

“There is always going to be players who just don’t get MMO’s and want everything handed to them with no time put in, they are looking for a “fair” arcade beat em up, in the wrong place.”

I love how I’ve played and gotten bored of nearly all MMOs on the market and generally enjoy most of them for a bit (until I need to start 100% grinding) so I must obviously want to play mortal kombat.

Sorry mate, square hole round peg, stop trying to force me through your pre conceptions.

Do you see the irony? You end up leaving because most MMO’s make you grind. Well that’s because that’s how MMO’s work. My point being, you are looking for a game that is not an MMO, but yet still trying to find it while playing MMO’s.

You’re welcome for the revelation.

Most mmo’s presidents didn’t create press releases saying you don’t have to grind either. I don’t need to link it to you right?

Competitive 8 vs 8’s with no attatchment to your level, all players have access to same skills, and gear, completely fair.
No questing, you just participate instead and get xp and credit…
That’s two common MMO “grinds” that GW2 killed right there off the bat.
Yea seems he kept his word to me…….. This game has less grind than any other true MMO out there.

That being said of course there is other aspects of the game, of this MMO, that need to have progression. If you can’t see past your own selfishness to see the whole long term picture, I really don’t know what else to say to you.

GADefence.5634:

“You end up leaving because most MMO’s make you grind. Well that’s because that’s how MMO’s work. "

I don’t really see the irony. I like FPSers, yet that doesn’t mean I like all of them. I’ve played a lot of MMOs, I liked some of them (GW1, on again off again with STO, I played a few others for quite a while that I forgot over time). I just have a very keen edge to a grind fest now, seeing as I left GW2 within 2 days of the game announcing one after playing GW1 for 7 years and am now looking for a new fun MMO to play.

Again, I will put it to you – I like the idea behind most MMOs I just think they fail at their execution. Your square hole/round pegging me again. I like fighting games, yet I don’t play them excedingly frequently because I do really feel like playing mortal kombat again or street fighter, I did that enough when I was young. Still like stuff like little fighter 2. Obviously, must mean I hate fighting games. Haven’t played an FPS in a few months since blacklight went P2W, obvliously, must hate FPSs.

GW1 was not an MMO, it was a co op RPG, with some multiplayer tacked on.

GW2 is an MMO.

My point is, I fail to see why ppl get upset about a game being what it is supposed to be, an MMO. You obviously said it yourself, you like the “idea” of MMO’s, but to me it seems like you are more into RPG’s.

psirca.9452:

This is where your opinion should be on the topic.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Thoughts-on-Ascended-Gear-Merged-threads

Not in your own thread. Oh sure, we know, you want to be heard and you think because you make your own special thread where you insult people instead of stick to the topic you will be rewarded by the system because you brown-nosed, incorrect.

Reported once more for spamming, and clearly not reading the OP, accusing him of insulting anyone, and that is what you’re doing. I have seen you post this exact post in 10 other threads, and that is spamming. You are not an forum admin let them do their jobs.

Life is unfair.

Josher.9612:

I’ll go by the numbers. In the 1st month there were a lot of guild members logged in. By the second month, there were less than 1/2. Now, its less than 10 on during prime time. You think this is isolated?

That’s the way games work, they are always at their height at launch, then a few months later you get your player base that is going to hang around when the unhappy players leave.

NaughtyProwler.8653:

DegoLocc.5976:

There is always going to be players who just don’t get MMO’s and want everything handed to them with no time put in, they are looking for a “fair” arcade beat em up, in the wrong place.

This is so true. Man, am I ever a moron for buying an MMO sold on the premise of horizontal progression when all I really wanted was Street Fighter. What an astute observation! Bravo!

That is what you want, you just don’t realize it. League of Legends maybe? Point is, make everyone even and fair, and you have an arcade game, not an in depth long term MMO, with growth.