Guild Wars 2

And last but certainly not least, Eredon’s Terrace, they don’t flip switches they shoot out lightbulbs.

Eredon’s Terrace:
TEAM BEAN

Ferguson’s Crossing; White and Nerdy
Team Al

Agreed, we could all, especially even myself, use to lighten up a bit. I remember checking on the tier 2 weekly thread and seeing that they were all getting along an even using using celebrities to represent their servers. (Ie. Team Steven Seagal, Team Flav and Team Lohan)

I think its a great idea! So from my interpretation, here’s SF, FC and ET.

Sorrow’s Furnace, the total kitten rock stars from Mars:
TEAM SHEEN

I remember there being a thread like this a while ago but for WvW details but through both search function and searching through 60 pages I was unable to find it, figured its easier to make a thread that is more close the the topic I’m interested in.

Let’s face it, ArenaNet has been pretty silent lately on all topics Glicko2, WvW matchups and ratings despite there being numerous threads on the topics on the first page of this forum section. Since most of our issues/complaints are based on both the premise of population and timezone coverage, I’m wondering if ArenaNet is willing to share some statistical information on all the servers so that we hardcore WvW participants who play this 95% for WvW can make the comparisons we need to make educated decisions about whether a situation is hopeless or not, whether we’re on the ideal home or not, whether the current match up or a different server being moved into or out of our tier is ideal or not, etc.

What I’d love to see is as follows:

For ALL servers WvW total combined map player number averages during 4 hour time period splits in GMT-5:00(for me personally) or in whatever timezone the server itself runs on over the past week, as well numbers of players online outside WvW and Structured PvP maps for ALL servers during the same 4 hour periods, and numbers of first-time server character creations for all servers within the past week.

An example would be: (Numbers are fictitious in this case)

Ferguson’s Crossing:

WvW numbers across all maps.
12:00-4:00 AM:
32
4:00 AM-8:00 AM:
41
8:00 AM-12:00 PM:
52
12:00 PM-4:00PM
125
4:00 PM-8:00 PM
127
8:00 PM-12:00AM
140

And so on for every server out there. Of course there would be a lot more decimals involved with the averages, that’s fine.

Then for the first time character creations per week(New server community members basically) would be easy enough:

Ferguson’s Crossing:
45 New First-time Characters during XYZ week.

And then:

Ferguson’s Crossing
Total number of players online on non-PvP maps during 12:00 AM-4:00AM: 45
And so on.

Anything of this nature, even similar if not identical would be an amazing tool for us who are serious about WvW.

Or as an alternative question, is there anywhere currently where we can view such information? I also realize that compiling lists like this would be quite a bit of work, but I believe in a sense they might also be equally valuable to the company as they are to us, so I don’t see why such information can’t be communicated. It would be to both our and ArenaNet’s benefit, especially since demonstrating clarity of position between the company and the players will help to build trust and more dynamic relationships between the Guild Wars 2 community members and ArenaNet. They could even be made to be released in the form of weekly charts like how we get the Updated world ratings, updated week by week. I’d love to be able to trace the weekly trends across all the servers, personally.

Arcadio.6875:

JQ, SoR, SoS, BG, Kain
TC, FA
DB, Mag
CD, YB, EB

The bottom half is more difficult to predict.

Clearly BP, AR, and NSP are competitive with one another. But is DR really a tier ahead of them? I don’t think this is the case. During the second Mag/BP/DR fight, the latter two servers saw some of their players transferring off. DR edged out BP by only 10k sending BP to T6. DR had to deal with Kain the next week when there was still free transfers. I won’t say DR has become weaker than the T6 trio, but I think they may be on the same level.

SBI and IoJ are still big questions. Just from the fact they both had an exodus of players, people were assuming they would drop to T8. They are performing much better than expected. IoJ managed to outscore DR last week. We need to see how they will perform in matches that don’t have CD/YB/EB.

The first week DH dropped to T7, they narrowly lost to HoD. Now they are winning by a wider margin. Perhaps DH would be competitive against the T6 trio now?

Similar story with SF. They were competitive with GoM and HoD before they dropped to T8 where they narrowly lost to FC. They are winning by a landslide now.

My sentiment is the same as this fellow here. Tiers don’t really make a good measurement system as there are some cases where there are 4 to upwards of 6 servers that in any combination could be extremely competitive within the same tier. Because only 3 can be fit into one tier, some end up higher than they might belong and some end up lower than they might belong. From there those that ended up somewhere off may or may not end up with competitive matches depending on how the dice rolled with servers raising/dropping from the free transfer period, and other factors.

So then in tiers sorted by server power levels with some fluctuations accounted for, I’d say. I’ve left a lot of room for correction in the power level guesses. This is mostly assuming the servers are also running at optimal strength and not suffering from population drops from holidays/being demoralized or anything. These are of course very broad guesses, hence why I give power level variation. I mean no offense to any server if I’ve done a injustice with your power level, I really have no place making guesses for tiers like tier 4, tier 2, and tier 1 but can only act off the info available.

As for tier 8, 7, 6, 5 and tier 3 I can make educated guesses based on the former tier 8 servers who got the majority of their population booms in tier 8 and judge on where they peaked. (Kaineng I put at tier 3, in tier 8 it had accumulated the vast majority of its major transfers by the final week, but it did seem to acquire a few more as it raised higher so it might not of been strong enough for tier 2 at the time it was still in our tier dominating.)

Tier 1 level
Jade Quarry; Tier 1- Strong
Sanctum of Rall; Tier 1- Medium
Sea of Sorrows; Tier 1- Medium
Blackgate; Tier 1- Weak-Medium(not sure which)
Kaineng; Tier 2 Strong- tier 1 Weak

Tier 2 level
Kaineng; Tier 2 Strong- tier 1 Weak
Tarnished Coast; Tier 2- Medium
Fort Aspenwood; Tier 2- Weak

Tier 3 level
Dragonbrand; Tier 3- Strong
Maguuma; Tier 3- Medium

Tier 4 level
Crystal Desert; Tier 4 Medium-Strong
Yak’s Bend; Tier 4 Strong
Ehmry Bay; Tier 4 Medium-Strong

Tier 5 level
Isle of Janthir; Tier 5 Weak-Strong (Probably Medium)
Devona’s Rest; Tier 5 Weak-Strong (Probably Medium)
Borlis Pass; Tier 5 Weak-Medium
Anvil Rock; Tier 5 Weak-Medium
Sorrow’s Furnace; Tier 6 Strong-Tier 5 Weak

Tier 6 level
Northern Shiverpeaks; Tier 6 Medium-Strong
Sorrow’s Furnace; Tier 6 Strong-Tier 5 Weak
Darkhaven; Tier 6 Medium-Tier 5 Weak
Gate of Madness; Tier 7 Medium-Tier 5 Weak
Henge of Denravi; Tier 7 Medium-Tier 6 Weak

Tier 7 Level
Gate of Madness; Tier 7 Medium-Strong
Henge of Denravi; Tier 7 Medium-Strong
Ferguson’s Crossing; Tier 7 Weak-Medium
Eredon Terrace; Tier 8 Strong-Tier 7 Medium

Tier 8 level:
Eredon Terrace; Tier 8 Strong-Tier 7 Medium

These still wouldn’t even either, and loaded with complex and unpredictable dynamic fluctuation like time zone coverage, cultural holiday population decreases, whether GW2 sales are up, what countries the sales of GW2 are up, and depending on the country if they have established trends to roll characters on certain “cultural servers” or not.

This is all in theory still, but its the closest I can guesstimate to even with the current population comparisons and score trends. Probably still would suck/be harder for some servers than others, as indicated by varying levels of power and therefore map control within the tiers, as well as the possibilities of Cross-server Non-Aggression Pacts and alliances being formed making it harder for the stronger server to yield the score they would normally, encouraging them to drop, etc.

Well to start, here’s my approximate guess on what’s formed in the current tiers. Some of it is complete guessing based on scores (tiers I have no experience with) and some is very educated guessing. (Tier 6/5 levels I can get a sense from how well Devona did, as well as tier 3 from Kaineng when they were in our tier considering that they might not of been tier 2 numbers yet from picking up more transfers as they ascended.)

Tier 1

Jade Quarry; Tier 1- Strong
Sanctum of Rall; Tier 1- Medium
Sea of Sorrows; Tier 1- Medium

Tier 2:

Blackgate; Tier 1- Weak-Medium(not sure which)
Kaineng; Tier 2 Strong- tier 1 Weak
Tarnished Coast; Tier 2- Medium

Tier 3:

Fort Aspenwood; Tier 2- Weak
Dragonbrand; Tier 3- Strong
Maguuma; Tier 3- Medium

Tier 4:

Crystal Desert; Tier 4 Medium-Strong
Yak’s Bend; Tier 4 Strong
Stormbluff Isle; Tier 5 Strong- Tier 4 Weak

Tier 5: (Really not sure with DR and IOJ)

Ehmry Bay; Tier 4 Medium-Strong
Isle of Janthir; Tier 5 Weak-Strong (Probably Medium)
Devona’s Rest; Tier 5 Weak-Strong (Probably Medium)

Tier 6:

Borlis Pass; Tier 5 Weak-Medium
Anvil Rock; Tier 5 Weak-Medium
Northern Shiverpeaks; Tier 6 Medium-Strong

Tier 7:

Darkhaven; Tier 6 Medium-Tier 5 Weak
Gate of Madness; Tier 7 Medium-Tier 6 Medium
Henge of Denravi; Tier 7 Medium-Strong-Tier 6 Weak

Tier 8:

Sorrow’s Furnace; Tier 6 Strong-Tier 5 Weak
Ferguson’s Crossing; Tier 7 Weak-Medium
Eredon Terrace; Tier 8 Strong-Tier 7 Medium

JaironKalach.4938:

Detharos.3157:

Disagree.

snip

So, what can you show me to prove to me that if this same Sorrow’s Furnace as it is was stuck into tier 7, it wouldn’t win with upwards of 250k, and that if Henge of Denravi fell we of tier 8 wouldn’t have great matchups with it as we did with Sorrow’s Furnace for the first two weeks?

snip

As I stated in the original post, I have no proof… This is my conjecture based on what I’d seen. The point of this thread is not to debate what is “true” but put all of our perceptions out there, and see how close/far away we are. I invite you to post what you believe is the correct version.

I see. I thought from the other thread you posted in you wanted to see some debate here and there though. I might make an educated guess and edit it into the post atm, but info I have to work with is incredibly limited based on servers I’ve seen first hand, how far they’ve moved up and how comfortably they moved up, a few supposed inter-tier dynamics. (because score doesn’t always reflect strength in situations like those where two equally strong servers battle it out and the third member is weak in comparison and only ends up on the map because the other two are busy with each other.)

What I will do when I make a guess, and suggest is establishing strength levels within the tier.

For a very rough example, you could have.

Tier 7: X Server- Strong
Tier 7: Y Server- Strong
Tier 7: Z Server- Weak,

Tier 7: X Server- Medium
Tier 7: Y Server- Medium
Tier 7: Z Server- Strong (Points and placement being effected by the factor of the other two slightly weaker servers focusing more on the stronger server).

The idea is that, when a server is strong by is tier standards, it has the edge in the numbers/coverage/skill to score connection, yet is a possible contender for the tier above yet at that present time is not strong enough to make it to the tier above, or maintain any presence in the tier above should it advance.

Disagree.

http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/14#NA
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/15#NA
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/16#NA
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/17#NA

By establishing a tier 9 and putting FC and ET in it, you’re making it out as if there’s a massive difference/tier wall between us of tier 8 and every server in tier 7. You basically make the assumption that if Henge of Denravi dropped into tier 8, they too will dominate with 300-350k+ just because Sorrow’s Furnace, a former member of tier 7 now is.

This may or may not be correct. Take a look at how close those scores are. Henge of Denravi was barely winning out against Sorrow’s Furnace. If anything things between these two would be called an even match. That SAME Sorrow’s Furnace, fought Ferguson’s Crossing with similar scores for two weeks.

And then what happened? Sorrow’s Furnace gets a population boom and this happens.
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/18#NA
And every next week the score was progressively made worse.

What was the source of this population boom they experienced is always debatable, but the fact is it is completely clear, and the score reflects it. Meanwhile the Sorrow’s Furnace that was on par with Henge of Denravi actually lost to Ferguson’s Crossing, and proceeded to pull off a small victory the next week in what was to be a clear back-and-forth situation until the unexpected happened. Now they even become stronger in the past 2 weeks with more coverage in a time zone I think they never had this much of before, during North American work/school hours. Their North American timezone slot grew massively, and despite losing some Latino guilds, from what would seem to be individual transfers of Latinos and others in those time zones doing a cultural huddle, their coverage in that timezone has not decreased in lethality at all.

So, what can you show me to prove to me that if this same Sorrow’s Furnace as it is was stuck into tier 7, it wouldn’t win with upwards of 250k, and that if Henge of Denravi fell we of tier 8 wouldn’t have great matchups with it as we did with Sorrow’s Furnace for the first two weeks?

The only wild card is whether HoD’s population increased significantly during the period Sorrow’s Furnace was gone. But then, so to has Ferguson’s Crossing ironically, the only problem with the server is that it is currently demoralized from having ended up with yet another overly populated opponent due to unpredicted circumstance and remains stuck with them for the unforeseeable future as despite winning with 350k+ SF is now losing rating.

If you want to say that what Sorrow’s Furnace has done with a population boom, Henge of Denravi could also, you need to prove it. The sheer score boards alone are massive evidence that if SF got paired up with Henge of Denravi as it was when SF fell, that it would probably crush Henge of Denravi just as badly as it crushes us, maybe even more drastically for all I know.

If anything, somehow time zone coverage needs to be taken into account more by the system also. Perhaps point trends at isolated time zones need to be a factor in determining who moves up and falls, because it makes no logical sense to pair servers with conflicting time zones even if the scores can be equal for these servers.

FC and ET can both hold their own and at times even server 1 v 1 against SF during reset, but the moment the SF night crew flips everything that strength is lost throughout the week as we log in to keeps and towers that have been flipped/all upgrades removed but are incapable of doing this same thing to our foes due to lack of timezone coverage.

Also, historical trend data might need to be purged from the system completely, if not the ratings reset. How well a server did in the past, or how poorly, is of zero relevance to the present if its population is completely different from that time due to population shifts during the free transfer period, large portions PvX players hitting up Wintersday and other events on specific servers changing the tier arrangements, and what not. They may even need to purge the history periodically so that it doesn’t taint a server’s position during periods of fluctuations by assessing its past performance. The past performance is irrelevant the moment a major guild in any given time zone transfers, and should no longer be taken to account at that point. The Glicko2 system’s problem may be that it takes into account too many things that it should not, and does not take into account too many things that it should. Entirely new algorithms might need to be added into it to make it relevant to something volatile like World Vs. World Vs. World. This is a series of tiers of THREE often fluctuating COMMUNITIES facing off what kind of is a literal war. This is not two individuals matching up against each other in a game of chess. If the system works for the latter, has absolutely no relevance to the former. I’d like to see if “MORALE” is a factor in tiered chess competition, cause as it stands a server that gets stuck in a horrible match up for weeks on end will suffer morale problems that effect it dramatically, when massive of players lose interest in continuing due to weeks of imbalanced match ups with weeks on the horizon.

wads.5730:

mucco.1867:

Except one-sided matchups will be the norm. Ask T8.

Glicko will freeze everyone in their current position, eventually. If in T4 green constantly does twice as many points as red+blue, and every week the results are the same, in a couple years their ratings won’t shift one point; despite it being a very imbalanced setup. If the intended goal is to freeze the ladder into whatever (usually bad) form it has at the moment, Glicko works perfectly.

With my system, you will NOT have two different opponents every single week because it’s not straight WULD. How many times do I have to repeat it?

except the current rankings aren’t balanced yet. so they won’t freeze where they are now. the system is self correcting over time. any imbalances will iron itself out. in the ideal case, the end result is all tiers have close matches, and their ratings don’t change. this is when you have balance.

Actually, SF has been dominating us with 300-350k+ points now for a couple of weeks already, and is continuing on that path this week yet is suddenly losing rating while dominating us. While I do speak for tier 8 specifically right now, many are saying HoD wouldn’t be very different. The problem is, that is an unknown. Both FC and ET did well against SF for two weeks before their population unexpectedly jumped. Be it from people returning from PvE wintersday hibernation, server transfers, or both is irrelevant. The Sorrow’s Furnace that lost in tier 7, and at that time by ironically a small margin is not the same Sorrow’s Furnace anymore. THAT SAME SF that lost in tier 7, and not by a massive margin, fought FC and ET and was bested by Ferguson’s Crossing in the first week of the match up, and pulled out a narrow victor in the second week of a great match up. Of course similarly HoD’s population may have changed since then too. And that’s the problem, these things will never be measured again. SF is losing rating for no sensible reason. Whether SF or HoD or any other tier 7 server is more suited for tier 8 IS something that CAN and probably HAS changed, therefore it should logically be granted a rematch in that tier, and fast. Yet as it stands, it could be dominating with 350-450k+ victories for a month and be strong enough to hold its own in tier 6 for all we know and yet we will never get to find out if Glicko2 keeps it paralyzed here as it is.

And it’s not just Sorrow’s Furnace that is ending up in situations like this, but tier 8 has a unique problem in that there is no tier below us to fall to. If the system doesn’t deem SF moving up as justified, even though it largely determines this through irrelevant information like historical trends it won’t get the chance ever.

If what others have said is true, which it is, in that the scores between two tiers are apples and oranges, then I ask you all: Isn’t it hypocritical to defend the Glicko2 system with that stance? If they hold no true relevance to each other, why is it that server’s like Sorrow’s Furnace literally need to dominate with 695 ppt at the EXACT SAME TIME the server above randomly starts doing very poorly and losing rating consistently (Something that may or may not happen.) to move up? Just because Sorrow’s furnace can win in our tier with 350k points doesn’t necessarily mean HoD could, or that it could not, or any other server in that tier. Just because SF can’t dominate us with 695 PPT if we don’t let them does not mean they couldn’t compete now, or even win in the tier above. That remains to be seen and tested.

Also, even with a close score not all servers in any one tier are made equal. For example, you have cultural centre servers like Kaineng that boasts one of the largest Chinese, Korean and Asian populations of any server in GW2. Pit that against a server that is a cultural centre for maybe North America, be it both US and Canada or whatever and you might get two servers that get near equal scores from doing a lot of PvDoor on each other when neither is present because their timezones do not align, and yet will see at times MASSIVE drops during periods like holidays in a way that Glicko2 simply cannot predict. One server might lose half its population during Christmas festivities and proceed to be dominated during that period, and regain its numbers and suddenly dominate the other server when half its population is busy celebrating an entirely different cultural holiday, and for a different period.

FilthyRat.4652:

LOL…you guy have you alliance and we will be here for many more weeks…look forward to so many more weeks of this. At least Fergs cam out on top of your alliance cause if ET did that would have been so much worst. You were right guy on FC they would just fold to you after you used them

Lol no, we don’t have an alliance at all. If we had an alliance, when Ferguson’s Crossing came under a focused attack from SF, ET would be obliged to come help us drive you out, and vice versa. We simply have a Non-Aggression Pact at best which individual members or guilds of our respective communities can choose to or not to honor at their own whims. What’s now in text is an inevitability a server that significantly outnumbers its two tier partners to face. Whether we spoke or not, we’d both be spending more time in our own borderlands and in Sorrow’s Furnace Borderlands/Eternal Battlegrounds than in each other’s borderlands.

Thus far it hasn’t made any massive difference that would hurt the Sorrow’s furnace WvW score much, or its ratings. Some of you have noticed your ratings and are naturally frustrated. That has nothing to do with us. Some of you seem misinformed here, so let me say that even if we hand over 695 PPT Sorrow’s Furnace won’t truly move up unless Henge of Denravi or any other tier 7 servers starts being consistently horrible. We’re all for SF moving up, but for that to happens us being dominated week in and out is not enough, simultaneously the server to be bumped down has to start dropping.

Someone else also mentioned the reason your server is losing rating quite nicely. It is not because we are fighting any more this week than last week, it is because Glicko2 is apparently making a projection of how well it expects your server to do based on historical performance, how much it predicts Sorrow’s Furnace should improve and because it doesn’t measure up to Glicko2 predictions it punishes your rating even though you dominates us every week with 350k+ victories. That’s not our fault, your enemy in this is not us for not handing over free points, its the Glicko2 system that is crafting the tiers and making moving up this complicated.

Hence why we have so many posts from members of both Ferguson’s Crossing and Eredon’s Terrace community members complaining about tier 8. Because the fact is, while servers in tier 2 experience this problem in a form, being in tier 8 and not having a safety net tier below us to fall to makes our tier have a unique problem with this system. Mind you even if an NA tier 9 was added and 3 servers with WvW populations equal to ours magically appeared out of thin air, the same problem would probably just occur in tier 9 instead of 8.

Those were some great fights tonight in SF Borderlands bay side, and also in EB when we shifted maps for some last bit of fun before we had to sleep.

Shout-outs to [CoSA] and all the SF that participated with them (Think I remember some guild with a “T” in its abbreviation) in the back and forth struggle between the Bay, bluevale and Bluebriar, as well as the fighting at Quentin and other towers in EB.

What was the guild/group that was functioning as Sorrow’s Furnace on call back up tonight? I saw the outmanned buff flip on and off as some large group must of been swapping maps to deal with threats we posed throughout different maps, but never realized who it was. (Probably CoSA I imagine though.)

Kukchi.6173:

<3 Maephina and I salute all the other commanders for your great cooperation and enthusiasm

You’re kind of late there dude. About 16 days late, to be precise. :P

Well for me (the one who made the thread) I don’t usually have much problem surviving on him aside from when I try to heal downed people and he pops his super attack. To be fair, I think a fair number of times in the recent runs I was the only one healing aside from maybe one other person on occasion. I guess I just have to be more vocal on healing the downed players during Alpha when I form a group. 90% of what gets me killed is trying to heal downed players and getting blown away by the super attack because it took too long with just me doing it.

Regarding the comments on melee range, I’ve run enough CoE in pre-wp lockdown days to know how this hotdog stand operates, thank you very much. I’ve seen the word “stack” enough times to puke at this point.

I heard rumour there was a small night crew gradually forming on our server. And when I pulled an all-niter recently I got to see it for myself. Great work guys! Glad to know someone has our back when we’re hibernating.

AoshiZ.7425:

So can we get to the point? Who’s in? Who’s out? Detharos from [WZ] guild are you guys going to participate? It is mutually beneficial.

SF people can you refrain from commenting it is also beneficial for you guys to get a challenge if I am not mistaken. Keeping this thread clear and concise would be appreciated.

Looks like WIF does not yet know as of this morning?

I’m just one of a few officers, but I will bring it up in teamspeak soon and see if we can agree on something. Truth be told we haven’t been attacking ET much lately anyways so not having to worry about any of them playing vulture when SF’s eyes turn to one of our maps (Which happens 85% of the time) could prove to be very nice indeed. In addition I’ve talked with SniffyCube A LOT and just plain like/agree with his thoughts. So if he and KWBH are in on this, I will definitely bring it up with my people and make something try to make something happen.

As for Sorrow’s Furnace, I wouldn’t get too angry over this. For one thing this pretty much seems to be a NAP at best (Non-Aggression Pact) and not an alliance. Its not like things will be super coordinated like 30 FC showing up out of nowhere in ET BL to help kill your troops and defend ETs land for them when they need help and vice versa. It literally amounts to the two simply staying out of each other’s way. While it should have an effect if its serious, I doubt it will affect the score dynamic much anyways, and if it does why stress out? It’d probably be more fun for you guys too if it does any good.

Also the big worry over something like this is, its easy to put pressure on it. SF need only focus on “Holding off” rather than aggressively expanding with one of its foes and focus the majority of its forces on the other. When only one side has trouble in its borderland and respective area, it would put pressure on it to break the agreement since it would only be benefiting one party at that point. Like someone else said, its not like you can just combine red and blue into violet. Pacts like these are usually shaky ordeals unless they develop into full fledged alliances.

Anyone else finding this combination a horrible thing? I appreciate dungeons taking a certain amount of skill to accomplish, but without an extremely practiced pro guild-only group where everyone runs at least 30+ fps all the time, it feels like its almost impossible to finish Alpha. One person makes one bad timing judgement on the roll, gets downed. Depending on the timing Alpha’s going to drop another mega attack on the downed player. For the people healing them, if they don’t hit “ESC” key to break out of the healing motion and roll fast enough, you just get more downed people and it quickly becomes a domino effect of people getting killed because rezzing downed players during a Subject Alpha fight can be particularly tough to do.

And now, we can’t res at wp and rejoin the fight. It just feels like this was a terrible decision to apply in a dungeon that has a boss with a one-shot/near-one shot attack. Shouldn’t Alpha’s damage or super attack frequency have been reduced to accommodate for this change? I appreciate the hp reduction on Subject Alpha but I don’t think it was enough; the skill/no-lagg requirements for CoE. exp are through the roof now and I will probably go from being able to accomplish 3 runs per day to 0 runs per day now.

Brutus Barbarossa.1452:

Detharos, you bumhurt much?…

first of all, tl;dr, seriously, you have some hate in you, sir.

Second of all, this pact is favorable to those who would like to work on their god forsaken World Completion in WvW BL maps…

So a commander has the idea to make an alliance with ET and you’re what… insulted? Get over it. It’s a game, so let’s play it. I for one need a POI and a Skill Point in SM… mumbles about POIs in enemy territories as he walks away

Bumhurt? Nah, I was chuckling while I read the post and replied to it. I was even tempted to post a one-liner troll comment instead of that post.

Now, as a final post, this will be the important one. Somebody asked what the question was. Now, as I see it the question is addressed to ArenaNet themselves.

The question is, Does ArenaNet care about tier 8?.

Now since it always comes down to this basis, let’s get down to the nitty gritty of what ArenaNet would be thinking if they did answer.

Ok, so you got our attention, what is it that you want? What is your main point? What do you want ArenaNet to do for your tier, and the servers within it?

Our main point is this; FIX TIER 8. Please DO whatever it takes. Don’t talk about it. Don’t make 2 month long concessions on it and then act in the next nearest month’s end. DO IT FAST.

Why? Because people who’ve been enduring 3 months of imbalanced matchups with another 2-3 weeks of it on the horizon and all mystery and coping with ruined ratings on the horizon after that are frustrated and are quitting the game, and our WvW power is going to shrink from the little it is long before your “Sooper Dooper prestige patch” even makes an appearance.

What do you of tier 8 suggest?

A few things. First it would help to read the thread posts, although yes you would have to skim through some frustration-filled comments. That’s the burden you’ve earned. There have been plenty of suggestions but here are some I’ve seen from other players that I do recall:

-Fix the math in your broken-as heck Glicko2 rating system. Tier 8 to Tier 7 should not have such a rating gap.

-Fix only the portion of rating gap between tier 8 and 7. Take some rating away from all of the other servers, and add it into the ratings of our tier 8 servers, so that SF can advance next week and that the damage done to the ratings of Eredon’s Terrace and Ferguson’s Crossing. Set SF to just a little below HoD, ie. 1010, and Fergs and Eredon set to about the 830/850 mark. While you’re at it, you might as well fix the damage to the ratings of other tiers that unpredicted server transfers ruined also. ArenaNet surely has the numbers and facts all available to them, they need only act on it manually for once instead of constantly speaking in defense of Glicko2. Glicko2 is not perfect, and it could really use some help in this particular application of it; in the form of some manual adjustments to help it produce balanced match ups more consistently and quickly.

-Server mergers of some low population servers and complete removal of tier 8

-Reopen free transfers but just to or between Ferguson’s Crossing and Eredon’s Terrace. So in the very least that in the sight of our servers weakening from people burning out, we could all hop to ET or vice versa and make one server with a WvW population that stands a chance. Since only now in hindsight with the rating reset cancelled, some of our servers’ players are now regretting that we didn’t do this when we had the chance to do it for free

And lastly, what the heck is up with people coming here from other servers and other tiers with absolutely no history in our tier or real knowledge about its inner-workings , annoyed with us for our few complaints and literally complaining about our complaining? You tell me, how could we not complain, how can we not be frustrated with ArenaNet when things are this way through NO FAULT of our own, when this system that is supposed to produce balanced matchups has punished only our ratings this harshly and and made balanced matchups take months more to occur in this tier than any other tier when a server has a population shift? And what about so many long-timers in our WvW maps that have stood through all the constant imbalanced matchups looking forward to the time when they could have balanced matchups for more than a month, trusting in ArenaNet and its systems to fix things, these same people who are loyal to the community they’ve participated in just about everything with and didn’t hop to the nearest safe haven when things looked bad, who’ve literally had to sit by and watch while countless players simply hopped to greener pastures when they had more than a 30, 000 points difference(something we’d rejoice if we had) and these same people boast in the forums of how much they are enjoying WvW now on their now(only because it was forced on them) permanent homes, and when some of these same people are coming in our threads calling us “Whiners”, “Weak” and mocking our few complaints we’ve had.

This is literally the only week I’ve seen a thread from our tier dedicated to complaining. NEWSFLASH we’ve been frustrated for weeks now, and have sucked it up this entire time and are only now running out of patience. We weren’t quiet because things were good, we were quiet just because we’ve been patient, because we’re more hardcore about WvW than many others in higher tiers even are. We’re not a bunch of whiny kittens for making threads like this, we have FAR more right to complain than even tier 2 does about the cases of slow tier 1 server advancement. Add on to this the frustration of ArenaNet members not replying to any of our concerns, bringing about a reset that actually would of been a good thing for our long broken tier and fixed the damage MUCH faster for our tier and cancelling it maybe 2 days before it hits (And yes I know it would of been bad for other servers. I’m not saying it was an ideal solution, in fact it was horrible. Manually tweaking rating gaps would still be a more fair, and much more effective solution. But at least the reset was sign of a coming change to us. Without it, we’re just back to the same old stupidly slow grind with broken ratings), in addition countless players from higher tier servers being completely indignant to our comments and at times even responding in inflammatory manners simply because they really don’t know at all what our tier is like, what our history is like, and simply don’t care. If you don’t care, why the heck would you read the thread, reply to individuals and even in some cases go so far as to dig up mos.millenium records (while not knowing jack about how they even came to be) and wielding them like a 3 year old trying to use a sniper rifle; hitting 0 marks with 0% accuracy when you try to use them, as if in some vain attempt to defend ArenaNet because when enough people of the same mind ironically WHINED about a good incoming change, ArenaNet listened. The same people complaining against us in our own threads, defending ArenaNet’s actions and handling of our tier are the SAME people who hypocritically call ArenaNet “A failiure of a company” and threaten to quit the game for future Skyrim installments when ArenaNet makes a good decision that you dislike.

Get real, of course we’re gonna be annoyed. Hell, I’m pretty kitten to see some of you have the gall to show your faces here. So if you don’t like the thread topic just because Ferguson’s Crossing, Eredon’s Terrace and ironically even many of the currently dominating Sorrow’s furnace players are saying things that don’t amount to participating in high-tier circle jerks like so many of you had when ArenaNet announced a rating reset.. then why don’t you just get the heck out of the thread?

Now let me be clear, no I’m not calling any of our opponents tier 1 level, duh. This is pure example of broken the rating system is. The fact is tier 4 level servers will dominate us with 695+ppt also probably, and the situation would be pretty much the same albeit less people dying right next to spawn points. And yes, this is a hypothetical situation, but if a tier 1 server for whatever reason be it purposely or coincidence fell down to our tier and regained its numbers this is what would literally happen. Is it fair that ironically when so many of you say we are weaker than tier 7, that a server like that would spend 7 times the time with us that it would with tier 7? The advancement rate in tier 8 is far too slow.

Also, tiers are designed to produce balanced matchups, not rank strength. While it is almost inevitable to happen anyways, let’s be honest there is no Dragon kitten-style scouter scanning server power levels in the tiers and balancing them accordingly. In theory you could have three equally matched servers in three tiers where each higher tier is weaker than the lower one, and because of the balanced matchups unless something changed drastically like a major server falling down it would stay that way for months. So yes, it is possible and in my opinion fact that there is a weaker server than the current Sorrow’s Furnace in tier 7. And the system should be made capable of replacing Sorrow’s Furnace with them in as little as two weeks, it shouldn’t take a month and a half as it is.

Now if you will, since so many of you rely so heavy on the mos.millenium matchups to determine anything for you, take a look at tier 8’s history. Ferguson, Kaineng, and Devona’s Rest had an amazing matchup for a decent amount of time in TIER 8. So obviously, tier 8 never having a good 3 way split is a myth. Let me tell you something else: it was transfers that strengthed Devona’s Rest and Kaineng so much. The moment DR started having those 300k point wins, it was already tier 6 level coverage, and when it continued into upwards of 350k and higher its numbers from that time peaked. From that point from what I read in the forums its numbers actually didn’t change much. Yet it advanced straight into tier 4 with little trouble where it finally was bested and then lost MANY fairweather transfer players yet still was strong enough to hold in tier 5 and has been there to this day. Now, take a look at how long they had to dominate us to move up, and how short a time they needed to move up in tiers above us. Take a look how Kaineng which pretty much became a massive power house the moment DR left, and rapidly grew was already to the point that it was tier 6-ish-5ish material before guilds like WM and RE transferred to it(They had numbers very reminiscent of the Devona’s Rest that dominated us at this point.) and when in the last two weeks WM and other guilds transferred to them it became an even worse slaughter. Yet look how long we were stuck with that horrible mismatch until they finally advanced, and contrast that with the time they’ve spent in every other tier since then.

Tell me, how is it “Working as intended” when a system supposedly designed to produce a balanced matchup has been able to produce one in tier 8 that lasted more than two weeks which history shows WAS BALANCED IN THE PAST BEFORE TRANSFER HELL, and now its been what, four months since matchups here were consistently balanced? Now also consider that the little rating we did have has taken a beating unlike any other before it from this grueling period of oversized servers “passing by” and that we won’t be able to reach a more appropriate rating number (once as high as 870-1k+ for Ferguson’s Crossing) for many months after the tier finally rebalanced, which nobody truly knows how long will take except for the minimum of the 3-4 more weeks it will take SF to advance.

Although I think the topic has mostly been handled, as I think its one of my posts that caused some confusion I think I will drop a line here to clarify something. Some of this will sound a bit repetitive so forgive me.

Nobody is arguing that Ferguson’s Crossing or Eredon’s Terrace belong in a higher tier. However, I did mention with a good amount of confidence that we could hold our own against certain tier 7 servers. The point in this which I believe to be fact and you can argue that if you wish, is that there are servers in tier 7 that as it stands deserve a spot in tier 8 much more than Sorrow’s Furnace does. I also state that I believe with its CURRENT numbers and coverage, should the keep up and not get demoralized from some slight challenge, SF will probably move comfortably up to tier 6 and that should they hit a wall, it would likely be in tier 5 which basically means I think they are a tier 6 server and with a little bit more experience and organization with their current numbers they’d easily be tier 5 also I’d say as they are very comparable to the Devona’s Rest that we fought in imbalanced matchups for weeks before they finally advanced to tier 5 unchallenged.

For those of you in higher tiers who continue to for reasons beyond my knowledge find yourselves annoyed with our posts, let me give you an example of one of things it is that annoys us enough to make these posts.

Say for example, for whatever reason a tier 1 server was put into our bracket right now and like us had a rating of about 650 to start with. The most elite of the elite, most skilled, most numbers, with the best coverage of tier 1. The reason doesn’t matter: They took a break as a server from WvW or whatever, just imagine what it would look like if it happened. Let’s even give this hypothetical server a name for lulz. THE TIER 1 SERVER, LAQUIFA’S KITTENSLAP. (Lukian is gonna love this.) 695 ppt to a single server in our tier. ALL THE TIME. Domination. We walk outside the spawn point in any location and die not far from our spawns, not able to accomplish even one breakout successfully because the enemy has every map queue’d all the time. We’d go through this for a week. Then another week. Then a third week. Then a fourth week. And then yes, a fifth week. And MAYBE even a sixth or seventh week. And then they’d finally move up. Imagine through that month + how agonizing and also costly it is to try anything in WvW. How people who loved WvW before get burnt out and start quitting. We lose individuals, we lose capable leaders and we get put BACKWARDS in WvW to a state even weaker than we were before because of how WvW has become absent of any fun. A literal burden to enter it and nothing more.

Now LAQUIFA’S KITTENSLAP finally advances. It dominates tier 7 equally as brutally as it did ours. And what happens? One week its there, and its gone after that. Then it’s stay in tier 6 is just as brief. Tier 5 is bypassed with as little problems. Tier 4 actually has a few small points on the board, but is wiped thoroughly nevertheless and it advances. Tier 3 makes an impressive showing in reset but is quickly 600+ PPT’d and within a day or two its back to 695 PPT. LAQUIFA’S KITTENSLAP advances to tier 2 where it battles it out for however many weeks it takes until it eventually stands again as a tier 1 server.

Now think about it, is it really fair that because of the way the rating system works, we should of had to fight this beast longer than the combined time it took for it to advance against tier 7, 6, 5, 4, and 3 combined? No, that’s not fair at all. Imagine the sheer damage done to our server in this hypothetical situation, the sheer numbers of old pros quitting WvW, the numbers of average WvW players quitting or demoralized and likely to never try seriously again, the sheer numbers of WvW first timers who wanted to give it their shot and lost their “WvW virginity” to some beast rolling 695 ppt and not letting anyone exit the spawn.

Notice how he put “FC” in the title interchangeably with his guild since its really only KRAK thus far that has had any contact with this fellow from ET. Not surprising because Krakarabbit seems to think that he and Ferguson’s Crossing are one flesh or something, and that if everyone on the server isn’t following his lead all is lost. Typical of him to do such a thing lol. Indeed, all hail Krakarabbit; Supreme Commander of our forces! Führer of Ferguson’s Crossing! With him at the helm, we will surely never lose and spend 8 hours attacking locations in vain!

The sad reality is though, KRAK is a non factor guild lead by a non factor leader. Most of us of just about EVERY SINGLE organized WvW participating guild have not been directly attacking ET borderlands except when its favorable/completely undefended(easy free points) already and it doesn’t take a big agreement to realize the simple logic that SF is the threat of the tier. WZ and TTA have been fighting SF head on for the past 2 weeks, and I haven’t seen KRAK anywhere but Lion’s arch or sitting near waypoints in WvW dropping lulzy recruitment messages.

Despite his so-encouraging words about a treaty with Eredon’s Terrace and avoiding their borderlands, it was Krakarabbit himself leading a portion of people to attack an SF-controlled tower in ET borderlands just 2 days ago during the very time ET was effortlessly beginning to retake their borderlands. The same guy who endlessly lead his people in vain to fight right in front of the tower gate with with SF’s spawn not a far way right behind them and defenders and likely arrow carts on the walls stuck in a deadlock that any commander with any amount of knowledge knows easily how to break. Things ironically didn’t start looking better for him until I sent him some backup from our borderlands when people asked “Where are we attacking” and mentioned that someone is attacking Eredon Terrace. I came to the borderland myself also and showed them the basic obvious tactic of using catapults from a safe distance when a gate is too hard to siege with rams. A concept, that somehow seems to have eluded the mighty Krakarabbit in that instance. Funniest thing is, when I decided to take a nice break and just hang out in WvW with my commander tag off, I noticed that while SF was busy flooring one of our keeps in our borderlands for like 15 minutes before I logged off, KRAK didn’t show up at all. They were still so occupied with that tower in ET BL. o.o Very productive.

But I must admit that was a nice break just seeing Krak doing something in WvW for once, even if as usual it sucked at it, unlike the rest of that week and the 3 weeks before that where they’ve literally been almost completely absent. It seems its leader spends more time sitting on his butt in Lion’s arch yelling some mindless banter of how people should join this “elite guild” (LOL)

And that’s typical Krakarabbit for you. He mentions us of [WZ] not being part of his fancy treaty as if he had some concession with us and we outright refused to participate in it. Unfortunately I wasn’t online much tonight but I can say I doubt Krakarabbit messaged any of our officers at all regarding this little arrangement, just like how he hasn’t joined in on the alliance between TTA and WZ despite having a great past with TTA, probably just because he dislikes our leader so much. Real mature right? Every other major guild agrees to start putting the bad pasts behind us and does some good for the server, meanwhile a certain someone hides in their little hole in Lagg’s Arch recruiting people all day long and doing absolutely nothing for WvW on our server 95% of the time. From the sounds of things, Lukian even contacted him regarding the new alliance and he simply voiced his disagreement with any alliance involving WZ and did what he and his guild always do, a whole lot of spending time in Lion’s arch and in the safe zones in WvW focusing all its effort on recruiting anything and everything they desperately can get, and probably never kicking inactives which would probably explain why his guild has little to no WvW presence and only leaves point defecits when it leads in any sense. A guild comprised of 85% inactives lead by someone with no real solid plan or strategy to accomplish anything long term.

The other funny thing is despite all his attempts too “win over the opinion of the server” if you will, even the random people realize that Krak’s presence is more detrimental than useful in WvW. These days members of WZ rarely need to speak up at all in map chat when Krakarabbit starts bashing us and trying to use us or Edwin Kern as a scapegoat for his failures. People from completely random guilds I’ve never seen seem to speak out for us, and the moment Krakarabbit leaves after his typical recruitment lines people from all kinds of guilds that I’ve never even seen before seem to make fun of that “elite guild” part openly in map chat.

Alright, I’m gonna make things easy for some of you from higher tiers who think that this is simply a case of a tier 7 server rolling tier 8 servers. Allow me to enlighten your minds.

MYTH: Tier 8 servers like Ferguson’s Crossing simply can’t match “tier 7” numbers, and will always possess an imbalanced matchup when a tier 7 server gets bumped down.

Now let’s observe the FACTS.

Facts: View the screenshots below. This is what happened during week 4 with SF, when they as a server started reaching their strongest peaks. Their numbers actually haven’t changed much since then. When just TWO out of Ferguson’s major WvW guilds, WZ and TTA worked together in unison and assaulted SF head on in their borderlands with a two-pronged push (WZ toward Bay side, TTA toward Hills side) during NA prime time. SF responded by pulling all of their standing forces at the time back into the borderlands to stop it and put up a worthy fight until their morale broke, and the result was this. The first screenshot was what happened when we made a few love taps on SF, and the second was when we really got serious. Starting at about 6:00 PM SF was constantly shredded in their holy lands, and our score rapidly rose from 130-ish ppt to 270+ in the blink of an eye. Before you knew it we easily held 320+ ppt for a good 3 hours worth.

Another fact: Also take into account the closeness first and second week of our matchup, continuing up until this notice of free transfers ending being made public where SF’s score magically jumps over the course of the next two-three weeks and by major increments.

So:

MYTH: Tier 8 servers like Ferguson’s Crossing simply can’t match “tier 7” numbers, and will always possess an imbalanced matchup when a tier 7 server gets bumped down.

MYTH BUSTED.

Easy.

And for those doubters wondering why we only bothered with an assault like that two or three times since SF’s numbers jumped, I’d actually ask members of servers like Maguuma, Dragonbrand to answer this question FOR us. What was it about Kain that invalidated any effort you made against them and quickly broke any reason you had to continue fighting against them?

That’s right, a massive night cap crew. We can push hard if we want to, but there’s no longer a point when the scores get so obscured from 12:30-5:00 AM. We simply see no reason to go through such an effort to build up something every night which will simply be removed and massive PvDoor vengeance meted out against our lands while we sleep. SF can outnumber us by a fair margin on NA prime time, but this is nothing compared to the number differences that happen while our server sleeps. We just haven’t been blessed with a “night crew”.

But if there’s any server in tier 7 that like us lacks a night crew but is strong during NA prime time, I say bring it on. Don’t be surprised when you find your score not being what you expected because of the illusion Sorrow’s Furnace put up while here if you get bumped down.

I still think the math behind the rating system needs some major tweaks. As it stands, tier 8 gets far too punished for simply.. being tier 8. No other tier ends up with the rating gaps ours always seems to have, yet there really isn’t a big difference between a authentic tier 7 server’s numbers/coverage and a tier 8 server’s number’s and coverage. As it stands if a “Rising Star” starts forming in tier 8, it causes much more damage due to the length of the ascension to our WvW population’s enjoyment of the game than it would beginning in any other tier. Paid transfers are finally in effect, but there’s still no guarantee that entire hardcore WvW guilds won’t ever transfer seeing as the leader of my 350+ strong WvW guild has enough coin in the form of item investments to literally transfer half of our guild to a higher tier if he so wished. What I’m saying is that, paid transfers aren’t going to stop any major guild wishing to transfer from making a unified gold pooling tactic to… transfer. Its still literally easily accomplish-able over the course of a week or two for 2-3 major guilds on any server or across multiple servers to make concessions and agree to transfer over to a lower tier server and again break a tier. And the problem is, if that’s tier 8 UNLIKE other tiers who ironically aren’t that much stronger than ours at all cough tier 7 cough we have to endure the brutal ascension of a bandwagon transfer server for upwards of one-two months longer than tier 7 or any other tier would have to.. and why? Because we’re that weak? No, Ferguson’s Crossing proved itself capable of beating this former tier 7 server and had enjoyed great matchup with them despite the disparities in night crew presence, up until they unexpectedly received a whole bunch of transfers. Furthermore the gap in points between ours and pre-transfer SF wasn’t actually very different from Henge of Denravi’s. Once again, its the same crap on a different day(and server), just like Devona’s Rest, just like Kaineng albeit nowhere near as bad as Kaineng. And yet in the end we will have been drilled by them for what will probably be turn out to be a total of a month and a half before they finally get the heck out.

Seriously, fix tier 8’s rating, or whatever math is behind it. Go ahead and make ArenaNet characters on all the servers of tier 7 , participate in WvW for a week through all the timezone periods and then try it on our currently demoralized and weakened, in comparison to one-weeks ago, tier 8 servers, and lastly on Sorrow’s Furnace and compare to see for yourselves if our server really is “35-45% worse” as your fail rating system always seems to falsely hint.

Tier 8 deserves equal treatment to other tiers, and whatever the broken/fail math is that is in play that causes 300+ rating gaps to ONLY happen in our tier, clearly needs to be fixed. It’s only too bad that there’s gonna be so many “QQ somewhere else plox things are fine” people popping out of the woodwork. Twice as annoying when 95% of them are the same losers who bandwagoned their sorry hides over to lower tiers because tier 5-tier 2 was “too hard for them”. And yes before any unnecessary replies occur, I know its balanced matchups that matter in the long run. I’ll be happy when things fix up in tier 8, but just because we might get a balanced match up a month from now doesn’t mean its perfectly right for our tier to be 400 rating points behind tier 7, a gap unheard of between any other tier. Funny thing is I don’t really care about advancing if we get a balanced matchup that actually lasts for once, however its still unfair in all regards if the populations in tier 8 literally have to WORK three times as hard as any server in a higher tier to advance. That’s the very definition of imbalanced. And as I mentioned earlier, the threats of mass transfers are still very real. I don’t know any level 80 that can’t make 30 gold easily in a few short hours of play within 2 days if they put their minds to it, enough to buy the gems to literally transfer to any server they choose. The threat of transfers is still out there, and tier 8 shouldn’t be designed less capable of adjusting to that threat than other tiers for no valid reason at all.

Basically, please fix your rating system ArenaNet.

So, I thought to myself tonight that I might as welll enlighten the generally boring lives of SF’s night crew as a going away present in this final week by demonstrating an unspoken of tier 0.2 strategy.

Behold the power of the middle-of-nowhere ram rush! The one thing that may be capable of defeating Kaineng.

With this unheard of maneuver, we were so empowered so as to push back and easily reclaim the camp. The secret lies 100% in building just one of the three ram build sites up to about 85% but then leaving it unfinished. Truly a powerful siege placement.

And yes, I have joined the Quagpack crew. <3

fishergrip.4082:

Detharos.3157:

@mrstealth

I’m not worried at all about SF, but the fact is they are the straw that is breaking the camel’s back. Not you tier 4+ servers. You guys come and leave for a week, but we are stuck with an imbalanced match up for another 3 months after we’ve been putting up with it and are just about sick of it at this point, for the past 3 months spare the odd week or so. And yeah, I’m quite familiar with the history. Also note that Ferguson’s population steadily grew from the Christmas boom. Also keep in mind that Ferguson’s Crossing’s scores during the DR era were often reflective of it playing PvDoor vulture while DR and Kaineng were at eachother’s throats.

Week 43 – 27-03 November
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/6#NA
Early signs of the troubles to come.

Week 44 – 03-10 November
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/7#NA

Week 45 – 10-17 November
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/8#NA

Week 46 – 17-24 November
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/9#NA

Week 47 – 24-01 December
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/10#NA
A rare change in pace! Is this the new era of balanced matchups for Ferguson’s Crossing?

Nope.

Being stuck in never-ending unbalanced matches is simply the plight of the weakest servers. If you have two servers that are weaker than every other server, they will remain at the bottom and get beaten by whoever happens to be the third server in t8. Destroying balance for all servers will do little to alleviate this problem.

And about SF, they will get about 0 points next week against Kaineng and EB. They could easily fall to T5 or lower, especially if the new rankings system allows for more volatility.

Not really. The bottom tiers were quite balanced in the past when free transfers didn’t ruin it, there’s no reason to expect there couldn’t be 3 approximately equal forces in the bottom tier like there were in the far past. And while paid transfers are now in effect, that 200+ rating gap that had existed between tier 8 and 7 WAS completely artificial, built by weeks of balanced matchups with no blowouts combined with higher tiers seeing blowouts, and further accentuated and exaggerated when transfers saw blowouts in our tier combined with the chaos of the fluctuating numbers in tiers above. The past ratings were whether higher tiers accept it or not broken, albeit not for every server or tier. But in the course of things, the numbers were thrown completely off by intense population fluctuation. And again, I’m not saying the current rating reset is being ideally executed. Combining it with 24 hour matchups until the tiers formed up authoritatively and accurately sounded like a brilliant idea to me, but clearly not everyone felt so. Again, supposedly new math in the system will come into play soon too.

And not to say that you in particular think this way, but I just don’t see why so many are jumping the gun in the forums as though this is the Guild Wars 2 WvW extinction event, if you get my drift. People could at least wait til the details of that up and coming “new math” are spilled before passing such negative judgments on the system.

Besides, seeing new faces will be fun in some ways no? Some lucky geeks could even meet their “soul mate” while fighting a server they wouldn’t of fought originally! Well not likely, but you never know.

I don’t even know why I’ve been at odds with that mrstealth fellow to begin with. If it were up to me, server tiers would of been arranged based on surveyed WvW population, timezone coverage and all the like rather than all the alternatives. As well as whether they’d move up or down.

See mrstealth, I respect your opinion but you seem to making the same mistake that fuels the problems with Glicko2 and ArenaNet’s past assumptions in the first place. The system and the assumption could simply not contemplate much less compensate for the dynamics that are present in a server. Population fluctuations was one (Our losing some guilds/people to DR at one point as far as I understand but eventually gaining the plus side of the Christmas boom.), but the huge thing is server WvW morale. See, people are simply not inclined to be forever present in WvW when it takes job-level dedication to maintain your position. For one thing, let’s be clear 300-400 point single server domination and 695 ppt aren’t very different. Actually in most cases they are probably not different as well. If your server is at the wrong end of a 695 ppt server, let’s face it odds are if your server tried really hard to be on the map at least in some sense it could be. In all likelihood servers in that case have had their morale broken. They’ve given up. They, or their WvW populations as a general whole, see no benefit, not even in the form of entertainment as to regularly attempt anything of significance in the WvW battlefield anymore. I’m sure you’re familiar with this. What I’m saying is that, whether Kain, or SF or any server dominated us with 300 ppt, 450 ppt, or 695 ppt is of extremely little difference. The effect of repeated losses while you dedicate the the former ppt levels is what leads to a server’s WvW morale ultimately breaking and it simply retiring for however many weeks for their opponents need to advance. If we got tired and disappeared from the map for the next week, SF would dominate with 650+ ppt and yet not be any stronger than they were the previous week. They’d simply have the advantage of their opponent’s morale being broken.

Also, the fact that Ferguson’s Crossing is so often present on the board at all is not because its opponent’s weren’t as strong as they were made out to be, it’s that our server has always had that determination. While many servers keeled over for Kain for example, our people constantly tried to make something happen against them, all the time. We clawed at them with everything we could, and still managed to often ninja and build up the occasional towers + keep and make them work for it. Ask them of Kaineng or Devona’s Rest, and they’ll be the first to tell you how our server never seems to be stomped enough to give up.

However, not to turn on our old spirit but many of us are tired of all this. We’ve put job-like hours into a mere game at times, some incredible coordination, and swallowed up even some of the hardest of guild prides to work together as a server just to maintain the little we have. Many of the core that has carried our server for so long, are simply exhausted from all this. If you ask me, they’ve waited more than long enough for a consistently balanced match-up without having to endure another 3 months of all this. And again, much of this WvW core if you will are hardcore players. People even servers like yours begged to have transfer over. People that did not quit when Kaineng came crashing us, and countless servers flaunted their “greener pastures”. Outside those lost to Devona’s Rest perhaps, very few transferred off at all in the grand scheme of things. The same people, some of which even left former PvX organizations to form dedicated WvW guilds that literally GREW purely from WvW recruitment during the time Kaineng was doing 650+ppt all the time.

Excuse me of I feel a little upset when someone says to such people: “You should wait another 3 months, it would of been better for all of us.”. With server WvW morale so hard at times to maintain at times, people need some hope of foreseeable change in the future. The rating reset brings this for us much quicker than the old broken ratings did. So excuse me if I don’t shun this system as so many others do.

Week 48 – 01-08 December
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/11#NA

Week 49 – 08-15 December
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/12#NA

DR finally gone. DominASIAN begins.
Week 50 – 15-22 December
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/13#NA

Week 50 – 15-22 December
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/13#NA

Week 51 – 22-29 December
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/14#NA

Week 52 – 29-05 January
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/15#NA

Week 01 – 05-12 January
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/16#NA
Finally a great matchup is born!

Week 02 – 12-19 January
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/17#NA

Week 03 – 19-26 January
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/18#NA
Woo SF’s transfers be kickin’ in!

Week 04 – 26-01 February
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/19#NA

Current NA Matchup- solid domination from SF
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/#NA

With the old system requiring SF to dominate us with 600+ ppt for 8 weeks to move up.

Yeah, that was a bit much. Also its easy for any scrub to look at some mos. millenium ranking history, but it doesn’t tell you a single thing about how a server obtained its scores. The vast majority of Ferg’s 100k+ scores during the time of DR onwards were from playing vulture while they big boys duked it out. Brutal, harsh fighting against superior numbered opponents during the prime time and struggling to barely maintain our borderlands when they come stomping in, and scratching a scarce bit of expansion from a few NA players with enough crazy dedication to log in at 4:00 AM and pick the few things they could.

When I say domination, I mean consistently doubling your opponents scores. 660+ ppt is nothing. When a foe has a score like that, your server takes the privilege of being non present in WvW and gets a nice rest, a nice break. You get to make 15 gold a day from the few dungeons you run in complete relaxation, rather than putting all your money into siege. When the domination is not so drastic, you put brutal hours and effort into WvW to make something work as best you can, despite the fact that a broken rating will never even allow you the chance to change your position for months. Months of WvW, that is in general not fun, and certainly not what you expected when you looked at youtube videos of WvWvW before considering whether or not to purchase GW2.

Again, you look at a rating history, and it tells you absolutely nothing of the dedication many players on our server put in, to the point of exhaustion and work-like hours at times, into something that is ironically supposed to be a fun game. It tells you nothing of the frustration of having to face off against opponents who have every single possession spare the breakout targets upgraded to brim with cannons and the works, fully fortified, filled the brim with supplies while we struggle to defend what we have in our BL/can take briefly because everything is wood and barely upgraded at best as per the enemy’s night team wiping the map every moment we log to get some rest, with there simply being no time to get our upgrades finalized before the enemy has enough presence to once again push us with greater numbers then we possess when we focus 100% of our numbers into a single map while that same enemy can push 1-2 maps simultaneously and effectively?

What does it do for the morale of an increasingly tired out hardcore WvW population on our server when every single instance in the recent past when our server possessed any amount of respectable points on the board came from playing vulture/lucking while DR and Kaineng fought each other head on, literally amounting us to an at the time non factor server should our foes seriously dedicate to the borderlands we were merely lucky to possess. All this only to get the illusion of having a grand and worthy matchup for a mere what? 2 weeks before transfers once again cheated us of our chance, and having to endure this while making a colossal and exhausting effort just to keep ourselves on the map and in our current position yet being stuck with things unchanging for another 3 months , 2- if we decide to stop existing in WvW and let SF simply blow us over with 650 ppt?

You entertain me more than WvW, I’ll admit that.

@mrstealth

I’m not worried at all about SF, but the fact is they are the straw that is breaking the camel’s back. Not you tier 4+ servers. You guys come and leave for a week, but we are stuck with an imbalanced match up for another 3 months after we’ve been putting up with it and are just about sick of it at this point, for the past 3 months spare the odd week or so. And yeah, I’m quite familiar with the history. Also note that Ferguson’s population steadily grew from the Christmas boom. Also keep in mind that Ferguson’s Crossing’s scores during the DR era were often reflective of it playing PvDoor vulture while DR and Kaineng were at eachother’s throats.

Week 43 – 27-03 November
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/6#NA
Early signs of the troubles to come.

Week 44 – 03-10 November
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/7#NA

Week 45 – 10-17 November
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/8#NA

Week 46 – 17-24 November
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/9#NA

Week 47 – 24-01 December
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/10#NA
A rare change in pace! Is this the new era of balanced matchups for Ferguson’s Crossing?

Nope.

mrstealth.6701:

Detharos.3157:

You people in the higher tiers have become selfish. I wouldn’t be surprised if half of those complaining are such servers, that received mass transfers and damaged the ratings of the lower tiers as you moved up. You look to paid transfers as if it alone were a solution to all the WvW and fail to consider the periods of population movement damaged the system as a whole. It’s therefore necessary to fix not only the core problem, (free transfers), but the outlying problems it also created as it continued unanswered (Busted ratings, etc.).

Yes things would of end up balanced eventually AFTER MONTHS MORE. And for the people who have been waiting 3+ months already for a relatively balanced matchup, and are forced to wait months more under a system of broken ratings, you’d ask them to “Wait some months more plox!” so that you can enjoy a good match at their expense? Just awesome people, just awesome.

So what you’re saying is that Sorrow’s Furnace should have to spend the next couple months falling down through 6-7 tiers so your server can have a better matchup? I’m not sure if you should be calling everyone else selfish.

Let’s say there is no reset and SF just moves up to the next tier. How is FC going to do against Henge or Darkhaven? Servers dropping down to a lower tier commonly do extremely well there. That matchup could prove to be far worse for FC than SF ever has been. There are far more imbalanced matchups than FC vs SF. Yak’s Bend dealt with far worse for the last month.

Take a look at tiers 2-5 for the last month. There have been a lot of matches with scores like 500k/50k/50k, which makes FC vs SF look pretty even. I see in the history that FC had a couple weeks like this versus Kaineng when their bandwagoning started. Kaining, Dragonbrand, and Maguuma are finally in a proper tier, now you want to subject everyone else to another 1-2 months of that so you can have a good matchup next week?

How is SF gonna be stuck with higher tiers for months? It’s gonna lose by a massive blow out to any real tier 1 or tier 2 server and get bumped FAR down to where it belongs pretty kitten fast. It certainly won’t take “months”. And trust me, I know first hand what a higher tier looks like. I was here for weeks of Devona’s Rest when they were at their strongest. I was also here for weeks of Kaineng when they were at their strongest in the history of their time in T8, both the pre-WM and post-WM period. I was here to see us rival SF almost equally until.. guess what? Yeah, that last minute ending of transfers announcement and SF suddenly getting a major population boom from transfers, added to its already rapid increase in dormant PvX players frolicking in Wintersday events returning to WvW. Aside from servers who belong in higher tiers that might be stuck in tier 7, I daresay under the previous BROKEN rating system, the moment Sorrow’s furnace reached tier 7 it would comfortably move up to tier 6 and possibly as high as tier five in relatively little time if they work on their coordination and strategy. I remember both the numbers of Devona’s Rest when it was at its greatest, and also Kaineng so as to accurately compare the numbers to make a projection for the advancement of SF. I wouldn’t underestimate Sorrow’s Furnace.

Think about it. How many good matchups have you had in the last few weeks already? Outside a brief week with SF before ironically, they got a transfer boom, my server hasn’t enjoyed being a major figure in its tier since just before Devona’s Rest got its mass transfer boom. That was what, 3 months ago? And you say its better if we have to wait another 2-3? And what about Eredon Terrace. Most of you in higher tiers don’t realize due to the points, but a lot of ET’s score comes from playing vulture while we in general have had to bear the brunt of SF’s wrath. The moment SF is gone and the dormant players come active again, Ferg will likely put them as far under us, as we are to Sorrow’s Furnace. In other words at that time, at their expense instead of ours, Eredon Terrace could possibly have to wait ANOTHER 2-3 months to get more balanced opponents depending on how that would turn out.

And how is it, you get 1-2 months of imbalanced matchups for servers like yours? Even if you end up with one single server on your level and one weak server, the sheer free points benefiting both from the nonfactor would send your servers up to the higher tiers in very little time at all. Tier 4+ servers will for the most part probably be back there in 3 weeks as far as I see it, not withstanding the fact that Arena Net intends to implement new algorithms to the system, likely to help this situation.

Personally, I find a skilled mesmer harder to deal with than a thief. At least tab/spamming attack keys helps you pick up the thief the moment its possible without needing to click on a moving target in a laggy environment. (Believe me, its quite the task when you frequently run on 15- fps in WvW.) With mesmers, tab or standard attack key spam will only avail you those cursed illusions. (And from what I’ve heard they have traits to cause killed illusion to apply conditions to the attacker, which makes that a completely fatal mistake if true.) And if you’re laggy and as a result have trouble picking up moving targets with left click, then good luck picking up the moving, frequently stealthing real mesmer apart from their illusions, especially when you have such a brief period before they shed your target with stealth all over again and produce another 3 illusions before you can see them again.

If I had the choice, I’d fight a thief in place of that any day of the week. A very skilled and well geared thief feels tricky and extremely dangerous to fight head on, yet it is possible to do so. In the very least with good instincts with thieves you get a sense of what you’re fighting and whether they are still close by or retreating to exit combat and heal. However, with a very skilled and well geared mesmer who utilizes those maximum stealth/illusion builds or whatever they are.. they literally feel intangible at times.

Genev.2450:

24hour matchup system wasnt that great either, the server i was originally on was in t2 after the 24h matchups, only to freefall down to… I think they eventually ended up in t8 where they happily exclaimed that the matchups were even.

Well before population fluctuations were not taken into account, that’s the thing. I’m sure there are a whole other variety of factors to consider, but without free transfers available unless a bunch of guilds decide to drop 500+ gold to transfer all at once, then the 24 hour match ups should work much better now. You know, without the server hopping to winning servers factor present. Of course there’s no such thing as a flaw-free system, but looking at the system current, and past, one can’t help that think better balancing can/could of been done and should of been done long ago already.

Well with all that said, it would of been much more sensible to combine this reset with the 24-hour matchup system until the tiers ended up as they truly belonged. Fact is we already know what servers approximately belong higher up and which don’t, only the broken ratings needed to be fixed so these 1-3 month blockages could be overcome. Nevertheless, the tiers merely need a little time to sort themselves out, and I admit there is no point in high tier servers having to blow out for a few weeks when 24 hour matchups arguably would of gotten us to the inevitable results much faster. I agree with the reset in its vision as a whole, it is better for the system as a whole. But the overall vision could be delivered far more efficiently with 24-hour matchups occurring til the most balanced matchups possible across the board came to be.

Too many of you folks are looking at the short term. You look at what next week’s match up will be, and maybe the week after that but are not thinking of a month+ from now. All the servers that belong in segregated higher tiers will end up their quickly and inevitably regardless with an outdated rating from a dead GW2 era out of the way. I can only speak for Ferguson’s in this, but with the crappy old rating with an artificial number generated from constant weeks of fighting servers who’s populations spontaneously grew to high-tier levels from mass transfers, we would of had to deal with Sorrow’s Furnace (who is probably on about tier 6 level and maybe 5 if they take their strategy up a notch) for literally 8 weeks+ which I believe is assuming they blew out completely, which they don’t when we and ET maintain our presence in WvW. This is after a month of fighting mega Kain, and many months of fighting the once mighty DR. And our server at this point, is likely on at least tier 7 level.

In a word, the rating for our tier and probably others also was completely exaggerated from the weeks of free transfers to our opponents, forcing us to fight vastly outnumbered/out-timezoned for months more than we should have to in order to get into a balanced tier. We’ve already been putting up with months of generally ridiculous, stressful, and not fun WvWvW against mega-servers.

You people in the higher tiers have become selfish. I wouldn’t be surprised if half of those complaining are such servers, that received mass transfers and damaged the ratings of the lower tiers as you moved up. You look to paid transfers as if it alone were a solution to all the WvW and fail to consider the periods of population movement damaged the system as a whole. It’s therefore necessary to fix not only the core problem, (free transfers), but the outlying problems it also created as it continued unanswered (Busted ratings, etc.).

Yes things would of end up balanced eventually AFTER MONTHS MORE. And for the people who have been waiting 3+ months already for a relatively balanced matchup, and are forced to wait months more under a system of broken ratings, you’d ask them to “Wait some months more plox!” so that you can enjoy a good match at their expense? Just awesome people, just awesome.

For us, putting up with (Probably a nice PvE break) with tier 4-2 servers for 2-3 weeks is much better than our previous time projections of being stuck with Sorrow’s. We’ve been waiting 3 months already to get a relatively equal three way split. Enduring SF for another 2-3 months would be incredibly unfair for us. Where as with the free transfers ended, this reset will be of small consequence to the top tiers in the long run. Those servers that belong in tier 4 and up will quickly blow-out their way back up there in little time and sort their inner rankings in the next weeks, while those who belong in tier 5 and below will quickly fall there and sort themselves out before long also. In the end “Across the board” balanced matchups should be reached weeks-a month quicker than they would of otherwise. In the end, this should be much more fair for the whole scope of WvW, and not just the individual balanced or unbalanced tiers being considered. All it will take is a little patience.

Gisei.5749:

Detharos.3157:

@SF night crew: Gonna be perfectly honest, I won’t miss you guys at all. I loathe PvDoor night crews.

What are those players suppose to do then? Sit in their Towers and Keeps playing cards?

Hah. Of course I don’t expect active players to do nothing when there’s an easy karma/coin train available. By all means PvDoor away, eventually your server will be paired against another with a night crew anyways so it matters not. Like Kaineng. That’s gonna suck. :P

On the topic of jump puzzles, had a nice 2 v 2 in the EB jump puzzle with some SF.

That was a very nice fight on the part of those two WWGD. Mesmer and a charr thief. Once we got our act together, it was an extraordinarily close fight with a downed state battle between myself and the mesmer and both of us literally incredibly close to killing the other for the win and rally. But in the end you guys took the victory.

Might have to start using the siamoth for stealth more often, that was pretty good.

It seems that in all likelihood, all three of our servers are probably gonna be brutally dominated for 2 week+ before we start to end up in more balanced tiers. This alternative is still arguably better than being deadlocked in the current matchup for 8 weeks+ as the old rating would of caused. Since our time together is coming to an end soon and we may not see each other for some time (Although another Ferg matchup with Eredon in the next weeks isn’t too unlikely I think) I would like to give a shout-out to those of you on all-sides from the North American timezones who’ve made this tier so exciting during our hours. There’s been more good battles here than most probably realize, and often the closest and most exciting fights came at the most unexpected of times, and in the most unexpected places.

@ET’S NA team, KWBH, TAC and all the groups and individuals that made ET so fierce: rock on.
@SF’s NA team (Sorry I don’t remember most guild tags except those COSA folks. They’re pretty fun to fight.), We’ve had many impressive fights, you will be missed. Good luck and keep up the good effort.

@SF night crew: Gonna be perfectly honest, I won’t miss you guys at all. I loathe PvDoor night crews.

Despite the unbalance in the current matchup, let’s try our best to enjoy what’s left of this week.

stereoblind.4736:

Is that where you guys were when we just took SM? Glad you got the jumping puzzle secure, honey. Missed you </3

You might wanna check on the Fergs cause I think they borrowed some of your stuff while you were giggling in the dark room by yourself.. oops

While it is true 90% of SF players in JP attack the moment they see you, it usually doesn’t matter as 90% of SF players in the JPs are terrible/inexperienced. I bet their main forces won’t even miss the 10-20 people they often have in the EB puzzle at all. Just a day or so back for example, I remember some SF guild [CDH] or something like that trying the usual antics with me in the jumping puzzle, and me literally massacring them in groups of 2-4 a two or three times in rapid succession til I had amassed 16+ full level 80 kills(literally not one of them was down-leveled.) with only one death to them in the EB jump puzzle, and this as a laggy 10 fps glass cannon ranger. In the end I still got to finish the puzzle, and got to bathe in Sorrow’s… sorrow. It got so bad that when I was running towards one of them near the edge above the water, they literally opted out, jumped off the cliff, but somehow died anyways.

What’s the moral of the story, that I’m just that good? Nah, its that the SF that typically funnel into the jumping puzzles are just that bad. Half of them are probably PVE players that are spending their first time in PvP ever, so there’s really nothing to stress out over with most of them.

ET however, or at least KWBH is cause for concern in there. Thankfully they don’t attack you most of the time, because when they do you know finishing the puzzle will become much more difficult if they do.

To start, I’d make the outmanned buff provide a significant stat boost (Precision, power, vitality etc.) that would scale higher or lower depending on the discrepancy between the outmanned party and the other servers. Of course I’d do the math to make sure it simply helps make the difference without making anyone too outright overpowered. I’d take into consideration the varying factors like character levels, and all that. (Cause nobody wants to see level 5s soloing full 80s because of a buff.) Outmanned buffs would also be paired with some new buff for outmanned servers (I’d probably call it Zealous Fury or something) that would cause attacks from outmanned characters to apply a debuff to their opponents that completely disables downed state healing when applied.

I’d also probably look into making new siege equipment. Probably I’d look into some kind of a high-hp turret that could pulse cripple/chill in a radius that could be placed in choke points to help prevent stealth siege rushes. (I’m sure I am going to get yelled at for this, but it feels like zerg gets too much of a free ride against good siege placement by simply meat wall rushing its way through rains of arrows and ballista shots or sending a lone stealthed mesmer to portal bomb 60+ people into them.)

Persephone.7436:

Pinko.2076:

The biggest winners are all t8 servers actually. The Elo hell of t8 is really mathematically difficult to break, and it was created artificially with transfers. It’s probably their biggest reason for doing this reset, because otherwise, t8 servers wouldn’t see the light of day besides a bandwagon.

I doubt T8 will enjoy the crushing they will receive in the weeks to come. The hardest part of breaking out of an elo hell is winning, something T8 wont be doing alot of while matched with T4/5.

JaredKincade.9761:

True, but it also means that all servers that want to get into Tier 1 will have to earn their way in, not exploit a dead servers uncorrected high rating to shoot into Tier 1.

No it means a ton of PvDoor and more dead servers. It means when Emery bay crushes IOJ and DR again next week they will move from T5 to T1/2. You think they can field even as many as SBI the “dead server” your referencing? I don’t.

Edit: to remove pot shots.

Actually, as it stands SF has demonstrated clear numerical and timezone superiority after its recent transfer boom prolly about a week and a half ago, yet with the current system will have to fight us for what, 2 months+?

SF already belongs in tier higher than 8. When it would, Fergs would probably enjoy great matches with some other server, however ET would get the short stick for probably half a year before it finally has two partners with near identical populations. So yes, rating reset is a great thing for tier 8. Significantly superior servers that get stuck in the tier shouldn’t have to steamroll for months to get out of it.

Whoever suggested pairing 24 hour matches with this new reset has best idea I think though.

[Edited by Moderator: Quote removed]

moutzaheadin.4029:

1 more for weirdness

See Sorrow’s Furnace? You really are like Kaineng (Pre-mass transfer) in more ways than one.

SniffyCube.6107:

you can actually edit those screenshots to block out chat, abilities, and pretty much whatever else you want

- and that guy seems pretty mad

Great advice. Excuse me while I do self-obligatory facepalm for not having thought of that.

It was a great day of WvW for Ferguson’s, that’s for sure. What started out as small-time plan on a whim to 3-golem rush a keep or two quickly grew into a full out joint operation between TTA and WZ. SF put up some pressure at first but quickly buckled under the two-pronged attacks leading Ferguson’s Crossing to takeover most of Sorrow’s Borderlands (all 3 keeps) and effectively hold a strong position in it for hours, until people started logging off for the night. We certainly got to cash in our share of points from that, and the fights with SF was a ton of fun. Note though that one tower (Sunnyhill I think?) stood the entire time as symbol of SF’s resistance. I hope SF will give due props to whoever it was that had them arm that tower so heavily.

It’s funny to think that TTA and WZ started out at such odds, and yet now we’re quickly becoming bro-guilds.

Edit: Drama moment is now censored.

VeTx.5340:

Detharos.3157:

Sup tier 7 peoples. I hope you all are ordering lots of lube in advance.

That’s cute. Sorry I didn’t order lube but I did order these.

Sorry if we go in dry.

I was referencing more to the lime bar, but I confess that is a pretty sexy screenshot.

I approve of this thread. I hope the score on tier 8 doesn’t discourage anyone from moving, ET fight like beasts. You’ll be shocked to see some of the things they can pull off when they’re cornered. Much less when they’re fired up.

(17 golem rush anyone? :P )

Pain.3756:

Anet: I know this is hard to hear… many talented developers have spent 4-5 years designing a game to be “fun”. In many ways GW2 is a AAA game and did some innovative things that MMORPGs for years to come will imitate.

Unfortunately this does not translate into a WvW environment that is fun for every server/match.

Current Tier 4 scores:

Kaineng: 50,856
Yak’s Bend: 15,131
Crystal Desert: 9,138

After 19 hours, Kaineng has proven they are superior to the other severs in this teir (congrats to them). We have to wait 149 hours (6 days) to attempt to be competitive once again.

Last week Tier 4 final score:

Maguuma: 497,675
Yak’s Bend: 83,648
Isle of Janthir: 33,157

I don’t have scores after 19 hours from the previous week but I know it was roughly the same deal. After 19 hours Maguuma had proven they were superior to the other severs in that match (again, congrats to them).

We had to wait for 6 days (149 hours) for our next chance to be competitive.

I urge Anet to get into emergency mode or at the very least, talk openly and often about this problem. Your player base will not wait around long.. anyone remember Warhammer online?

If I set the technical direction for WvW, which I obviously do not I would limit the WvW matchups to 24-48 hour periods until we can find a time to create an environment that offers a competitive matchup for the duration of the event.

-g

If you think that’s bad take a look at the score defecit of Ferguson’s and Eredon’s from being paired up against servers like Devona’s Rest and Kaineng for so many months. At this point either server could convert to tier 1 population out of nowhere, dominate with 695 ppt and still probably would need weeks if not a month+ to advance. While these servers just plow through most servers in as little as week until they reach the tiers they belong in, we’re stuck with them for weeks-months. How is that fair?

Ending free transfers simply isn’t enough. The damage is done, and for our tier and possibly others as well, it will take months to repair. I demand a points refund for tier 8 after SF leaves. And these people saying the “points system is fine and will fix itself” really should can it IMO. It seems they all come from higher tiers where this hasn’t damaged the point count badly. If such people were in tier 8 back in November and stayed until now, I doubt they’d be singing the same tune.

Sup tier 7 peoples. I hope you all are ordering lots of lube in advance.

Been a great night of fights thus far. Eredon’s Terrace has had an extremely impressive opener, and continuing into the night lots of epic fights from SF. Nice fights for all servers.

Gotta give a shout out to KWBH for their portal bomb tactics. Feels like you guys have been on crazy mode tonight.