Guild Wars 2

The issue is that the teleportation mechanic is still not 100% fixed/refined. The old version was better, but also allowed for exploits. This version is more inconsistent, but fixes some of the exploits. They still have a ways to go on making it work flawlessly.

mcwurth.2081:

so you got in the beta, get free upgrade that you had purchased already seperatly for gems, and now you want to trade the stuff for gems?? little greedy no?
use them skins instead of transmutation stones.

I have hundreds of transmutation stones

Referencing this post:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Heroic-Edition-Items-Delivered-to-Beta-Participants/first#post5033783

This is super awesome!

I have only 1 question.

Fearing that I wasn’t going to have access to these skins in the future I had purchased them on the TP for 800 gems (if I recall). Would it be possible that we can trade these armor chests in for 800 gems or for some other current gem based skins on the TP?

Anything that involves trying to force the players to do something in a specific way will always result in the above/below comments.

“Nothing’s wrong / Nothing to fix / It’s fine / Leave it”
or
“More challenging content / Make it harder / Do something about it”

The problem is that the player base is split on what they want.

A large portion want instant gratification and to accomplish goals within the smallest time period possible. Others want balance, fair game play, and non-segregating meta’s.

Each have some merit to be honest. Some players simply don’t have the time to get on and play in a dungeon for hours – so they resort to Zerk gear. Others want to feel useful in any situation playing what they want to play and to be allowed into groups not based on gear or skill requirements, but as simply being needed. Both paid for a game that has made it rather clear as to which side they lean towards of this spectrum.

The common complaint is that speed runners want “new interesting/challenging content”. But how can the devs create this?

Here is an example of how a player can speed run a dungeon solo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gMSucIhDTs

Here is an example of how a player can kill a boss that normally wipes teams solo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DdFLInk888

The point is – players will always want to abuse game mechanics to make things “easier” – so why bother adding “new interesting/challenging content”?

Previously proposed suggestions have been:
1) Make the AI smarter and randomize attack patterns
2) Make the fights harder
3) Change the gear
4) Force kill count > progression

The problem with (1) and (2) is that altering the monsters in anyway will make it harder for players who don’t play meta builds to get through dungeons – yet the change will be less noticeable to speed runners. In (3) we have players wanting to nerf zerk gear feeling it’ll fix the issue. In all honesty – It would by creating a perception of greater balance. Some feel the gear needs more risk, but risk comes from monsters currently who are predictable and controllable. Monsters telegraph skills with more than enough time for players to react in most cases, and thus we have almost no risk for veteran zerk players – especially since the attack patterns aren’t randomized and can be coaxed in some cases. In (4) we see a similar issue as in (1) and (2) – zerk players get an advantage and non-zerk players get penalized by increasing their time in the dungeon.

Since monster loot doesn’t scale with how long it’s been alive there is no incentive to slow the process down. If it did scale in this manner we’d see the zerk players AFK or set bot/macro’s to negate auto-kicking and then just farming the spoils later.

In almost any way you look at it – there is an upside and a downside – and everyone is going to make the downside look far worse than it really is.

Example:
Nerf Zerk Gear – Everyone will freak out saying “you’re penalizing good players and rewarding bad players”. When the reality is that you are balancing the game so that everyone has more worth and contribution to a party. “But this game doesn’t have a Trinity so go back to Gw1.” It’s true we don’t have a Trinity, but the fact remains that some people like being the support character – which they can’t have in this game – and if they try to support a Zerk player who isn’t very good – well, there just isn’t enough fast reaction healing/support that can be offered. In any case there is always a typically selfish rebuttal catering to the ideals of the offended party.

I fear no matter what anet tries – they will lose players either way due to this unfortunate and typically unfounded mentality. Creating the illusion of balance is the only salvation they have, but this will be very hard to accomplish without making it increasingly obvious that they picked one side and scaled it up or down to do so.

I personally wouldn’t mind more distinguished icons in some cases (ele vs engi), but I don’t think adding more content to the screen will help much – especially when considering Commander Tags and large scale battles (WvW Zergs / World Bosses).

I personally can crash when I spawn in Sparkfly Fen for Tequatle facing the water and then turn around to see the horde of players behind me. If I dare hit my Ctrl / Alt keys to display the name tags I will certainly lag into oblivion.

If you’re a Gw1 player – I can see where you’re coming from. But, the difference is how large and graphically demanding each zone is as it is already. Some computers just couldn’t handle it – and even if the option can be turned on and off – too many people don’t know we have an official wiki/forum or what their options menu is

It’d make more sense to force the kills in this respect.

Have a meter that shows (your kills)/(existing monsters). You may not progress to the next location until all the “required” mobs are dead. Problem Solved.

(Too many people will whine and complain that they have to spend 5 more min in a dungeon killing these easy monsters with their Zerk gear – for you I say – "oh i’m so very very sorry… -rolls eyes-)

Toxsa.2701:

Dragon Ruler X.8512:

Toxsa.2701:

Dragon Ruler X.8512:

abclemons.7093:

How about /mercy instead? There have been of times when my team is roflstomping the other side and it just wasn’t fun…. I’d love to be able to give the other guys a way out.

Not sure how yours would work…

In either case though I feel like rewards should be reduced proportionally to how long the game was going and (maybe – didn’t give this next thing much thought) the personal score they had acquired through the game?

Personal Score was the worst idea Anet implanted in the past, and soon removed.
It encourages people to be “useless players” that either double/tipple capping node, or focus on “killing and chasing off point” rather than defending nodes.

I have a feeling you care very much about personal score. My advice for you is to STOP CARING about it, so you are on the right step of becoming competent players.

Don’t care for it in the slightest…

The point was when you cap/decap a point you gain +10 to your personal score (i’m not talking about team score where the cap gives +1 per tick). This means that the higher your score – typically the more work you’ve put in and assistance you’ve given your team.

I fully understand that if you can bunker a point you receive +0 points over time and thus your score is lower even though you assist your team by maintaining the +1 tick. Therefore, I do also want to include that if the score proposal were to be implemented I’d feel giving +1 to personal score every 2 seconds that you stay in the ring would not be too crazy as it would then reflect your efforts to maintain that point.

Like I said before, higher personal score means NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING in terms of your contribution toward the game. It only means you run far alot, or you focus on tagging every possible foes. If your role in the team is to decap far and kill foes, higher personal score is inevitable. If you base the reward on this, people will try to do stupid stuffs, like chasing foes no end, triple capping, bunch of people go far for no reason and so on. Your “stay on node for personal score” is also a horrible idea because then people will just sit on node and not doing the rotation properly.

Seriously, make anything to do with personal score is a bad idea, so just drop it. This is exactly why Anet removed it a long time ago.

I think you’re wrong and i’m entitled to that opinion.

Personal scores don’t mean “nothing” they mean “something”, but what they mean currently may not be fully representative of what they were supposed to mean initially.

The fact of you gaining points in any way means you did something. I agree tagging foes in combat and other various oddities in the way of acquiring points skews this reality, but the fact of the matter is that if you have points you did something to help your team. Period.

However, a really good bunker player can help the team by making sure there is a constant tick on that teams side – yet their personal score would not reflect this. In fact it is actually possible that a bunker decides to sit on point that was captured by someone else on their team while at 0 points. If an attacker came in, realized they couldn’t win, and fled AND no one zerg rushed that bunker all game to decap that point – they could actually end the match at 0 points which results in no credit for that win at all. I’m not saying it has happened, but I am saying it is possible. Disregarding good bunker players is wrong because what it really means is that your team now only needs to worry about contesting 1 other point to stay ahead on ppt which is what wins games.

I’m not saying rotation is bad and let’s make all players want to use bunker. No. I’m saying reward the efforts and time of a bunker player at least a little. They can be a valuable asset to the team and game changers.

…

Putting it all together

First: Theorize a maximum value obtainable from the PvP Dedication Metrics and then create an appropriate scale dividing players into tiers of a chosen size.

Second: Sum the values of the PvP Dedication Metrics and assign the selected tier to that player.

Third: Pool 10 combatants based on the tier of the PvP Dedication Metric.

Fourth: Divide the teams in a way that keeps the sum of the team member’s Player Skill Metric sum as equal as possible.

My numbers may be off, but my goals were these…

1) Create a numerically less complicated way to rate player performance.
2) Personal performance metrics become more accurate.
3) Include a decay method.
4) Default players with PvP accomplishments into higher tiers.
5) Scale players beyond default tiers using activity and wins.
6) Find a way to balance teams through player metrics

As I said, my numbers may be off but the above was my aim.

Hopefully this gives ideas?

Evan Lesh.3295:

Our best bet is to create a system that lives side-by-side with the Glicko MMR. The original system does its thing and makes good matches while the new one can be a new algorithm, or a filtered glicko algorithm to give us more friendly numbers without negatively affecting matchmaking.

Thoughts?

Referencing this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glicko_rating_system

First off – I kinda do this looking at it O.o mind-poof
(I’m not a fan of statistics mumbo jumbo)

Starting off with gauging player skill

Player skill is difficult because of many factors. So much so that it may be almost worth it not to use this metric at all, but rather derive assumptions of “skill” from other more measurable data. I draw this conclusion from the following statements…

Looking at the personal scoring system you have in place objectively – I can gather that the larger your personal score, the more you’re doing in the match. But, I can also see how it leads to inconsistency.

Assume we look at PK’s for personal scores:

1 v ‘X’ fights:
Any kill points are rightfully yours.

‘X’ v ‘Y’ fights:
Things change here because of the ways to abuse the PK point system.

1 person downs the enemy > you run in and hit them a few times > you get points for the kill (bad)

The team downs multiple enemies > you use AoE > you get all the points. (bad)

Assume we talk about Captures

You cap the point alone – you deserve the points

1 person kills the defender (if present) and you come in and stand on the ring right before it caps – you get the points (bad)

You bunker a capture point the whole game – no additional points given (bad)

There are other variations on each of these that lead to inconsistent scoring thus there is no direct way to gauge player skill.
(I’m not even considering the point system in place since team wins should not directly impact personal performance scoring).

Proposed Solution

Metrics for “Player Skill”

Kill Count: Scoring based on a 5 -> 1 metric. You gain +5 points if you are the only person to have damaged the foe, and +4 points if you are one of two people damaging the foe AND have the lowest contribution rating, etc. Contribution rating would need to be determined by damage, condi’s, and CC’s used successfully on the target. This system would also need to account for OOC time. If a player runs from a fight and has temporary OOC, but doesn’t refill their HP bar or skill set all the way – the system should reduce the metric proportional to their peak status.

Captures: Scored 5 -> 1. If the point is neutral +1. If the point is capped and you neutralize it and leave +2. If the point has a defender and you only neutralize it before getting killed +3. If it was capped and you fully capped it +4. If it was capped with a defender and you fully cap it +5. For each ally who assists in the capture you get -1 (maintaining a +1 minimum if the capture is successful). This accounts for combat on point.

Bunkers: Scored For bunker players holding points – take the total time they stay on all points through out the match in seconds (rounding up or down to the nearest 10) – divide by 10 – and give points equal to that value. Note: They must stay on point for at least 10 seconds to have their time on the point counted (though they should not lose those 10 seconds so the timer should start at 0:10 if they meet the criteria). If the point neutralizes the timer stops. This way if you are an active cap’er or bunker your scores should be similar after the end of the match.

Revives: +10 per ally revived.

Metric for “PvP Dedication” (larger numbers to help with tiering)

PvP Presence Rating: Total number of games played multiplied by [the number of days the account has been active in the PvP arenas divided by the period] (“arenas” =/= the lobby and omits custom arenas – period could be anything – a month or the account’s active lifetime, etc), and then multiplied by [wins/loses] (Note: 1 < wins or loses < X). Remainders should round up or down accordingly. This way we can solve the “no decay” issue you mentioned since time is involved and the “random jumps” will be smaller if you tier this rating score and assign each tier a value. Example: 300 games in 10 days of play time over a 30 day period with 200 wins and 100 losses results in a score of 200. You could either use this raw score or assign it to (let’s say) Tier 10.

(To help default avid players into higher tiers when using time metrics)

PvP Rank Consideration: Scored 900 -> 0. Rabbit +0, Deer +100, Dolyak +200,…, Dragon +900.

PvP Achievements: Scored 5900 -> 0. Per Champion [Class] Title +100, Champion Brawler +5000.

Wins: +(Total wins within the selected time period * 2). Given how large the numbers are this allows “PvP Dedication” to somewhat adjust based on performance.

Continue…

Toxsa.2701:

Dragon Ruler X.8512:

abclemons.7093:

How about /mercy instead? There have been of times when my team is roflstomping the other side and it just wasn’t fun…. I’d love to be able to give the other guys a way out.

Not sure how yours would work…

In either case though I feel like rewards should be reduced proportionally to how long the game was going and (maybe – didn’t give this next thing much thought) the personal score they had acquired through the game?

Personal Score was the worst idea Anet implanted in the past, and soon removed.
It encourages people to be “useless players” that either double/tipple capping node, or focus on “killing and chasing off point” rather than defending nodes.

I have a feeling you care very much about personal score. My advice for you is to STOP CARING about it, so you are on the right step of becoming competent players.

Don’t care for it in the slightest…

The point was when you cap/decap a point you gain +10 to your personal score (i’m not talking about team score where the cap gives +1 per tick). This means that the higher your score – typically the more work you’ve put in and assistance you’ve given your team.

I fully understand that if you can bunker a point you receive +0 points over time and thus your score is lower even though you assist your team by maintaining the +1 tick. Therefore, I do also want to include that if the score proposal were to be implemented I’d feel giving +1 to personal score every 2 seconds that you stay in the ring would not be too crazy as it would then reflect your efforts to maintain that point.

abclemons.7093:

How about /mercy instead? There have been of times when my team is roflstomping the other side and it just wasn’t fun…. I’d love to be able to give the other guys a way out.

Not sure how yours would work…

In either case though I feel like rewards should be reduced proportionally to how long the game was going and (maybe – didn’t give this next thing much thought) the personal score they had acquired through the game?

My point is that when you are in a “Safe Zone” (Towns / HotM / etc) going to “in combat” mode should not be a thing.

The fact that the PvP Lobby is used for creating PvP builds (because you can’t create them anywhere else) means that this instance should cater to that single point. If I attack things in PvP I should be able to do /bow which resets everything on me and the target while dropping me out of combat so I can tweak my stuff right away.

As it stands – breaking combat is tedious since I have to run so far away from the target to do so – and then I have to run back. If it’s the NPC’s in the northern or south eastern section of the map – someone can attack them which can lead to that monster hitting me with AoE or just switching to targeting me instead. This makes creating builds more difficult if you’re near those regions and have trolls pulling things to stationary players.

So trying to test builds on “Target Golem (Indestructible)” or others near “DPS Trials Waypoint” is kind of a pain in the butt…

Why can’t we force out of combat to continue testing out builds?

Gw1: Master of Damage = same thing as golem + gave a DPS report

I would like that back ^

Anyone else agree?

Extremes are the best way to put an end to most debates.

~IF SOMEHOW…~
You Managed to get into a match AND everyone quit ie (1 v 5)…

(Anti-Troll guard unfortunately not existing for the following statement)
Would you really not want to /resign?

If you would want to quit: Why not advocate /resign ?
If you wouldn’t want to quit: I question the validity of your statement and life choices.

DISCLAIMER:
I agree there should be restrictions/limitations on how this should work.

Possible Issues:
1) Full Team /resign req + AFKer
2) Full Team /resign req + Troll
3) Partial Team /resign req + Troll Teams

You May Now Continue Discussion :O

anabasis.7346:

LTREEVEY.2348:

anabasis.7346:

The “random and harder to read attacks” idea is one of the most widespread and myopic suggestions ever. It punishes skilled and knowledgeable players that know when to use active defenses while rewarding unskilled players that use more tanky gear.

It promotes the use of passive defenses to soak up damage instead of using active defenses to prevent taking any damage.

Boss attacks should have tells, this is AI design 101. If someone is skilled and knowledgeable to see a telegraphed attack coming, he should be able to use his active defenses to avoid it instead of having to use tankier gear because attacks have become randomised so he cannot dodge them anymore unless he gets lucky with his dodges.

Even worse, those who defend this bad idea are doing it for the sake of gear stat variety which makes their cause even less justifiable.

How is using Tanky gear rewarded, if it takes longer to clear content and get the prize? Isn’t that why Zerk is the Meta, because you can loot faster/earn more over time?

Tells already exist in game, so in watching for the tell acting accordingly, we are in agreement, but how is looking for a telegraph rather than knowing a pattern differ if they both require an action from the player? I am more in favor of “varying patterns” than randomness.

There is merit in arguing for “randomness” and if people want other sets to be recognized as acceptable(because almost everything is viable), what’s less justifiable about that?

If you can’t figure out why random, unavoidable or harder to read attacks rewards reactive gameplay while punishing proactive and skillful gameplay I’m not gonna help you.
I just don’t feel like explaining to you such simple things like the sky is blue. You should be able to realize that in the blink of an eye.

You’ve completely missed the point. Random attack patterns doesn’t mean you can’t be proactive – it means you have to be more cautious when fighting.

An easy example is the Chieftain and Svanir in the PvP lobby. They hit really hard and can mess you up bad and fast if you don’t know the pattern. As soon as you learn the pattern they no longer provide a challenge and killing them is a joke. If it was random as to if the Chieftain was going to throw an axe at you or do a dazing leap stomp (made that up) or both for his opening attack you couldn’t just walk up and prep a reflect from a distance then when he gets close KB and upon return blind/KD/block the rest of his attacks while you kill him. No – if his attack pattern was random – you’d need to actually learn how to play conservatively with your skills while still trying to optimize damage dealt.

Not sure why this got merged?

anabasis.7346:

Boss attacks should have tells, this is AI design 101.

I agree with Tells but not patterns.

dom.2748:

You can’t “master” gear…

The reason nobody wears other sets is because they are not good. The stats either don’t work properly like healing power which is just weak and doesn’t scale at all. Or the mechanics simply don’t work correctly like condi. Condi stack limitations in PvE make it all but pointless. So the solution to balancing out the stat sets a bit more isn’t to break the optimal solution but to make the other solutions actually useful.

Personally I feel that if you walked around with no gear that your survival would be low and damage out put minimal. The gear makes the build. You set your traits up primarily on what you want to do, but then your gear typically compliments the traits. Therefore the same “build” could be used with different “gear” and if one set gives you great sustain and the other little sustain you have to spend time mastering the build because of your gear change – so in a sense you have to master the gear – not the build.

The rest I mostly agree with. The only thing I’ll mention is that as you mentioned we have 2 choices. We can make everything else far more powerful/useful or we can limit the abilities of the current “Meta” builds and thus the other gear becomes more viable than before.

Skoigoth.9238:

@Dragon Ruler X

Could you please explain to me why you feel this urgent need to “fix the zerker meta” in a concise and comprehensive manner?
Even after dozens of threads similar to this one, I still fail to see any valid reason justifying the bulk of the proposals presented here to “fix the meta”. Whatever that means…

Urgent? Not so much, but an opportune time? A bit more so.

With there being changes coming in HoT I figured now is a more opportune time to make a suggestion as the suggestion is less likely to be tabled and forgotten. If it raises an eyebrow and catches a dev’s attention then it has a better chance of being discussed among them and then possibly implemented. That is all.

As for a reason to fix the Meta? None, really. But it seems like such a waste for them to put in all these things into the game that no one ever uses. Creativity is dead in build design. I mean, who uses Magi gear atm? There are gear types omitted from play because they have little purpose or reason to exist since other gear types outshine them. So why have the gear at all then? New players come in and “research” builds only to find Zerk tactics. It just makes the game feel like there shouldn’t be other build choices, but rather only Zerk gear and it is your job to master that gear – which isn’t the feel that Anet wanted. Providing a reason to diversify the styles of viable and generally accepted play styles shouldn’t be such a big deal in my opinion.

Jelle.2807:

Nothing quite so elaborate is needed. All that needs to be done is for enemies to

A. Hit more frequently and have higher total dps, so you can’t use active defenses to avoid most of all damage (though still require active defenses to avoid a large part of it depending on profession)

B. Put party wide relatively unavoidable pressure damage, so some amount of party support and healing is necesary.

C. Not rally downed players on death. Rally on kill in pve has always been bad design and should be a pvp thing, it lets players go all out knowing they’ll rally anyway if they burst something down.

Edit: Also more enemies need cleave attacks so corner stacking dies horribly.

I fully agree with point C.

MattyP.6954:

Dragon Ruler X.8512:

I like your thoughts here, but I thought I’d point out that you penalized Zerk gear, just in a less extreme way ^^;

“Don’t Punish Berzerker gear, but it would be good to make other sets more interesting….Other examples include giving Berzerker’s Armor a chance to apply vuln on hit, Knight’s Armor a chance to gain retaliation when struck, Cleric’s armor increased Boon duration, etc.”

I do think even minor bonuses to the armor would be nice. A 4th stat may complicate things though when thinking of how it would need to be implemented and then all of the new stat combos that may arise from there on. This is why I leaned more toward what you had slightly mentioned which was some effect tied to the gear itself.

What I’m taking your thoughts as (forgive me if I misrepresent) is essentially Zerker stays as it is, but if you wear 6 pieces of zerker armor, you get (as an example) 12% chance to apply vuln on hit. What I’m thinking of, instead, is each piece of zerker armor provides 2% chance to apply vuln on hit.

The primary reason I’m leaning towards the latter is that your idea removes any incentive to mix your gear stats. With the examples I gave, it would be viable to wear a zerker/zealot armor mix so that you get the damage from the extra vuln stacks and additional lifesteal (I’m thinking the lifesteal would be really low, like .5% per piece, to keep it from being overpowered), but less lifesteal than full zealots and less damage from additional vuln stacks than full zerker. You could even see really funky sets that nobody would think of now like Dire/Zerker if people want to add some longevity to their vuln stacks (assuming Dire gets condi duration).

As for increased complexity, I don’t know if that’s necessarily a bad thing. They already have to balance a lot of these mechanics as far as trait stats and runes go, and I think that it would be less difficult to implement than set bonuses from a programming perspective. As for complicating future stat set releases, I don’t think it would be any different than a set bonus—either way they would have to come up with a new bonus for each stat set. It would just be a matter of dividing that bonus by 6.

I still like your ideas, but I do think there would be a bit of a complexity increase if we allowed 4 stat choices. We have 7 main stats (8 if you include giver’s type with the +boon duration). Allowing any 4 of those 8 to be mixed together results in up to 70
{ n!/[(n-r)! * r!] ; n=8, r=4 -> 70 } different combinations – now this may be me, but I feel that’s a lot.

My only issue with your ideas so far is that they feel like they still lack the balance of power concept. “With great power comes great responsibility” is the type of mentality i’m aiming for. We can amplify the Zerk gear in terms of how powerful it is, but hinder it (in some way) in terms of how survivable it is so that even skilled players get challenged this way. We could take your concept of allowing the gear to apply a +X% chance to inflict vuln on hit (which is a power increase) and couple it with a "you receive +Y% damage per piece you wear. This way you have given the gear an upgrade, but compensated for its advantage by applying a slight risk factor too.

MattyP.6954:

Don’t Punish Berzerker gear, but it would be good to make other sets more interesting.

Similar to the lines of the Gear Set Modifications (which I do think would be redundant with runes and punish mixed gear sets), I think that it would be interesting to have a 4th attribute on level 80 gear that could make more gear sets more interesting.

The idea is to give each stat combination (for armor, at least) additional utility that still ties in to the “feel” of the prefix. Zealot’s Armor, as an example, is a higher dps stat combo that provides some sustain, so it fits that it would get a stat such as “Steal x% of damage dealt as life” to give a sustain mechanic that is dependent on damage. Dire is a very high-sustain condition set, so it would make sense to give it “+x% Condition Duration” to allow Dire armor wearers to further benefit from long fights.

Other examples include giving Berzerker’s Armor a chance to apply vuln on hit, Knight’s Armor a chance to gain retaliation when struck, Cleric’s armor increased Boon duration, etc.

ANet could even get really creative with the effects like giving Apothocary’s a chance to convert a boon to a condition on hit, Settler’s a chance to convert a condition to a boon on being hit.

The difficulty would be finding the right values to add on these, particularly where “Chance to apply” is involved so that they are attractive but not unbalanced, but it does give us the chance to recoup some of the effects we are set to lose with the new trait system.

This, along with restructuring fights, would bring real diversity into the game without gimping zerker.

I like your thoughts here, but I thought I’d point out that you penalized Zerk gear, just in a less extreme way ^^;

“Don’t Punish Berzerker gear, but it would be good to make other sets more interesting….Other examples include giving Berzerker’s Armor a chance to apply vuln on hit, Knight’s Armor a chance to gain retaliation when struck, Cleric’s armor increased Boon duration, etc.”

I do think even minor bonuses to the armor would be nice. A 4th stat may complicate things though when thinking of how it would need to be implemented and then all of the new stat combos that may arise from there on. This is why I leaned more toward what you had slightly mentioned which was some effect tied to the gear itself.

Dinks.2478:

Meta is optimal. Break the current one and a new one will rise. Then soon we’ll just see posts like “How to fix the <newest> Meta”. People are so dense. There is nothing to fix.

Not true!

Think of Gw1 (if you played it). There were common “Meta” builds, but team compositions could change as variations were accepted more readily. In PvE the class you played dictated the “Meta” you’d have to follow if running a full Hero Team. This meant that there were “Meta Builds”, but this left choices for the player! As long as they were using the “Meta” or variations of the “Meta” they would typically be fine – the main difference is that they got to choose how to play and what to play while still being a part of the “Meta”.

Seyiwaji.4082:

there is no need for weapon swap, using signet recharge the phantasm,

I meant berserker(or) Duellist, since they are the most powerfull dps phantasm.
Impact.2780 understood what i mean.
The time gasp is only 3 sec to cast them. since Illusion Persona, is a base line with 3 clone you have minimum 4 second time until you’ll go back in time.

Then indeed you would have 8 ^^;

Wondrouswall.7169:

Just to touch up a bit on the suggestions:

2) You lost (my) favor when penalizing a certain gear set and these passive bonuses are already present through armor Runes which are more subtle and flexible. Would be wiser to approach altering the other, lesser valuable and under utilized rune sets and improving them to be further incorporated to different game modes through popular builds rather than add in a new mechanic.

3) Check the video link above. As to more random and harder to read attacks – no. Attacks that are predictable and allow players to read the telegraphs of incoming attacks is great game design as it allows players to feel a personal progression learning an encounter.

It’s always a mixed bag when reading these threads suggesting to ‘correct’ a certain meta. A majority of the time, the intentions seem to come from a good place, and you have placed some thought and collaborated with others to put forth your suggestion.

Even if you disagree with my response, at least we can agree on disagreeing, and I hope you take a bit of your time to watch the video link (if you have yet) to see how AI is being approached for the future. Kudos and peace to you.

1) In regards to your 2nd point: I assumed the penalty because of the bonus. An example would be that if you wanted to wield a 1-hit kill weapon the penalty is you are also a 1-hit kill to your foe. This balances the power by providing the player with a sense of risk you make the game more engaging in my opinion. My suggest may have been off numerically (as my note at the top suggested could be the case), but the concept of increasing their already huge power, but also penalizing the acquisition of it to a higher degree.

2) In regards to your 3rd point: I’m not saying make the actions impossible to read, i’m saying to make them faster, but weaker (which may have been hard to gather from what I wrote, apologies). This makes it harder for a power player to stay alive until they get skillful enough to do so, but it also makes the other players stay on their toes more too. Combine this with randomization and you have a more interesting combat experience which differs each time. I, personally enjoy games lacking in repetition more than those that are pure repetition.

3) I thank you for being kind in your phrasing and being understandable . You, madam/sir, have a wonderful time as well!

spoj.9672:

Dragon Ruler X.8512:

2) I fail to see how your statement “The better solution is just to create more varied and challenging content” differs from what i’m saying? I’m providing the challenge through the gear modifiers – and it rewards (not punishes) them IF they can master it. Also you must keep in mind that each bolded term in my post is a single idea. Picking the first and third options is just as valid as picking all 4 options.

Ok ill point it out. What you are doing is creating challenge by making the game more punishing. Basically increasing the frequency of being 1 shot and having no ability to recover. The alternative is by creating more challenging encounters which can become difficult without creating annoying 1 shots and overly punishing encounters which you cant recover from.

My only qualm with that is that if we create more challenging encounters without modifying various things like I was mentioning we are essentially sticking with my first statement “Make monsters tougher”, no? This punishes everyone because everything is now harder. I’d rather enhance some of the things that are already in place – including a balance of power system – so that everything has its ups and downs. I realize that Zerk gear has a downfall by not adding toughness or vitality, but this can be compensated by the traits and class you choose.

In addition, as i’ve already mentioned, the Zerk system as it is has a bit too much freedom. Yes, miss a few dodges in a row and you die, but miss a few dodges non-consecutively and you can still recover. This means that after you memorize the attack patterns or how to do a run you hold an advantage in terms of what you can accomplish vs what others can accomplish. By suggesting randomized attack patterns I was trying to eliminate the ability of people to just memorize a run and to actually challenge them by making it a true test of skill rather than memory.

Kordash.2197:

Another bingo … When will you guys kittening understand that there will ALWAYS be ONE AND ONLY ONE OPTIMAL way of doing things ?

Here it’s Berserker, could be anything else for what it matters, but you are trying to “solve” doesn’t need to be fixed, since everything you can use in this game is already VIABLE (it’s a fact, you can complete any content in a reasonnable time frame in full nomad’s if you know the encounters).

Don’t wan’t to play Zerk ? Don’t do it. Want to join that Zerk Meta party in the LFG ? Meet their requirements, and you’re fine. Want to be a kitten by not metting them and still join anyway ? Get the kick you deserve. Want to be a kitten and force meta plays on a party not asking for it ? Get kicked the same way.

At least, if you want to “fix” something, try to think how we could get a better condi system, to make it on par with direct damages builds. We all agree that condi builds needs a revamp in PvE.

But the meta is fine. Active defense > Passive defense. This is not a trinity game, we don’t need this to be mandatory here (though you can have it, it’s already in game).

1) You’re getting flagged for being rude.

2) By definition “Optimal: best or most favorable; optimum” which can be misleading. If two you can complete a dungeon using two different methods of equal effort within the same time you have effectively destroyed your statement. If gear and monsters resulted in this possibility then players would be able to see there ARE choices that CAN be made and reach the SAME results. So “ONE AND ONLY ONE” is horridly wrong, friend.

3) “since everything you can use in this game is already VIABLE (it’s a fact, you can complete any content in a reasonnable time frame in full nomad’s if you know the encounters).” By definition “Viable: capable of working successfully; feasible.” The fact that you can do anything in this game with whatever gear is entirely not true. Try completing AC P3 alone in Nomad’s gear. Post a video of someone doing it alone and I’ll eat my words, but so far I can’t see how you could kill everything within the required time and defend both generators – yet a Zerk build can. This means some things are more viable than others currently – which is what is forcing the Meta – the thing that many players seem to be so polarized on when it comes to change.

4) Why should players have to subject themselves to meeting gear requirements? If they were viable in their own way with whatever gear they choose then they won’t get kicked mid-run after the party realizes they aren’t Zerk. Am I saying this is going to stop the Elitist Meta Jerks in LFG? No! I’m saying that if we were dealing with players who were actually able to contribute in a noticeable way regardless of priming up in full Zerk gear then more players would be happy about the Meta’s.

5) They are working on the condi-system just look at the Bleed stacks post that’s pinned above all these threads….

6) You are entitled to your opinion, but this thread is about seeing if the ideas presented are good and how to tweak them to make them better – not for you to tell me something that has been ranted about by all the other Elite Meta Enthusiasts in every other Meta altering thread.

You’re missing a few points.

Each weapon has 1 phantasm – therefore if you want 2 phantasms to be recharged when using the signet you must swap and have used 2 phantasms to begin with.

Since phantasm summoning requires a target and the phantasm instantly attacks the target when summoned you will be placed in combat after the first summon.

This makes it so if you switch for the second summon you go on weapon swap cooldown.

This means that you can re-use the phantasm on the weapon set you have active, but you must wait until the weapon swap cool down is done to re-use the other phantasm.

Continuum Split/Shift will send you back to the point where you hadn’t summoned either of the two phantasms and your weapon swap will be reset.

This effectively means you can repeat the above statement which resulted in 4 phantasms creating 8 in total. (including the time for weapon swapping)

Once considering Chronophantasma you would actually have 16 phantasms to shatter with.

LughLongArm.5460:

The fact you will no longer get stats from traits will shake the meta hard. Full zerk will be much glassier compared to now, but the damage will not raise by much due to diminished returns on power. Also the changes to armor stats sets will be much more noticeable. Max dps builds would benefit from minmax with assassin stats to be at 80% crit chance. So lets let A.net work, I predict much more build diversity in terms stats sets.

Source: http://dulfy.net/2015/04/23/gw2-specializations-part-one-a-primer/

Where Did My Trait-Line Stats Go?
We feel that separating build choices from stat decisions provides greater build flexibility, so you’ll no longer gain attribute points through a given line. Where will these stats go? Here’s a quick summary:

1) Base player stats will be increased from 926 to 1000.

2) Base attribute points on equipment will be increased so that all the gear in the game will give higher stats than it did before. This should account for most of the missing points.

3)Each profession’s attributes will be updated to have half of their functionality be part of a specialization and half of their functionality will be a baseline for that profession. For example, elementalists now have a base attunement recharge of 10 seconds, which is reduced to 8.7 seconds when the arcane specialization is equipped.

These changes should keep the total stat numbers roughly the same as they were before, even though you’ll get them from different places. In addition to these changes, the need to unlock skills and traits will be removed from Player vs. Player entirely, and you’ll automatically have all the specializations available to you whenever you’re in PvP.

/Quote

This indicates that some of the stats are still tied to the specialization line chosen. :/

Time is certainly a factor, but I get the feeling mesmers will hide their rifts by placing a portal at their hiding spot, running to edge of the fight, completing the portal and porting back to activate the split/shift and then porting back to the fight since ending the split/shift will then port you back to where you activated it.

Ezeriel.9574:

Some of the future is looking bright; the dragon hunter’s traps look like they could wreck a zerker. 3k burning ticks, alone, may bring the zerker meta to an end.

Let’s just hope Anet does something, otherwise all the other gear sets are just a cruel joke on new players.

I want to agree, but you have to also realize that those traps will likely scale off Power and have the ability to Crit. To make the most devastating traps we’ll likely see zerkers using them.

Burning could be a powerful condition, but i’m sure anet will put restrictions on that because currently it’s possible to hit around 5k burning (using the stacking concept) or more if we played guardian and considered each source at near 1k each – which is for almost any player without condi removal death in less than 4 seconds. That’s not even accounting for other players and their burning.

spoj.9672:

Missing a few dodges does kill them. Have you actually played berserker in arah/fractals when not being carried by a guardian?

…your method just unfairly punishes them and unfairly rewards other gear. The better solution is just to create more varied and challenging content.

PS. Before suggesting solutions try looking at it from the perspective of an average berserker player. You are far too biased towards other builds.

1) I have played berserker in arah/fractals, but I have my oh **** buttons that keep me alive. I have died plenty of times, but missing a single dodge usually didn’t kill me out-right. Instead I typically was able to recover and be just fine.

2) I fail to see how your statement “The better solution is just to create more varied and challenging content” differs from what i’m saying? I’m providing the challenge through the gear modifiers – and it rewards (not punishes) them IF they can master it. Also you must keep in mind that each bolded term in my post is a single idea. Picking the first and third options is just as valid as picking all 4 options.

3) I’m not biased in the slightest – i’m advocating to allow other builds to become part of the Meta. I’m not specifying which ones should or how they should so bias is not an available tag for me. I’m strictly saying that varying the gear or the monsters in some way can provide a more unique experience.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Tldr:

Remove gear diversity, punish good players, reward bad players and make success depend on random rolls instead of skill and strategy.

I’m gunna have to go with no on this one.

1) Never said remove gear diversity. In fact I was increasing available options for gearing up. See point #3 as well.

2) Never said “punish” – There is a thread mocking the difficulty level of HoT already. Therefore I’m providing the “challenge” that all these good players want – while giving them a greater reward IF they can master it.

3) Not rewarding bad players. I’m providing them more options to make something they like with the play style they want.

4) Success is not to depend on randomness. The randomness is to increase the difficulty for the Zerk players while simply making things more interesting for other players (not as much repetition). Please see point #2.

spoj.9672:

For the gear set modifiers. So why is it that the all berserkers set gets a penalty in addition to a bonus? Berserkers already get squished very quickly if they miss a dodge.

Presently Zerk players have their “oh ****” buttons. Missing a few dodges doesn’t kill them, but with these modifiers it could. This places a much higher strain on players who are trying to use this gear, but also provides them with a greater reward if they can master it. It’s just that now there is a real risk involved. Part of the point of Zerk nerfing in most common threads started is simply that players choose this method because it’s the “fastest”. Well, if you die far more often and have to keep respawning because you make mistakes – things will even out a bit more ^^;

Perhaps I misunderstood – because that was what I was thinking he was trying for ^^;

Dionosio.5168:

Dragon Ruler X.8512:

Indeed, but I think we are forgetting our weapon swap cool down?

Doesn’t the continuum split/shift also have an effect on weapon cooldown? The description says cooldowns, so it should be included, i guess. Or the devs said something about it i don’t know of?

Indeed it does, but in that “second timeline” you must swap weapons to get to the second phantasm (the first one you summon will put you in combat). This means that if you try using the Signet of the Ether you would only be able to immediately re-activate that phantasm tied to your current weapon set. You would run into this same issue in the “regular timeline” too. At best you could reduce your weapon swap times by 2 seconds using “Warrior” Runes (unless Alacrity affects the weapon swap cooldown as well?).

But even so – you still run into the first weapon swap issue in either case since you’ll be considered in combat after the first strike (forcing the default 10 second swap cooldown).

I was discussing this with friends and we came up with some interesting ideas.

Starting with the least popular idea…

NOTE: The following are just examples of thought. By no means have the numbers been calculated to reflect appropriate values. If you see something that is too large replace it with something that you think is more reasonable for appropriate discussion below. Thank you in advance

Making monsters tougher
This idea is based on the concept of making monsters hit harder and have more health.
The problem with this was that it penalizes everyone and eventually it will do the opposite of what we want. The mentality will certainly change to “we need to kill this thing fast so it doesn’t kill us instead!”. which is not what we were aiming for.

Gear Set Modifiers
Gear sets were an interesting thought because it introduces a new level of choice for the players. These would identify the number of gear pieces you have on of the same type (like runes) and provide additional stat alterations accordingly. An example would be if you had all Knight’s gear on you gain “Knight’s Aura: Reduces incoming damage by 25% and Increases your Vitality and Toughness by 10%” or if you had all Berserker’s gear on you gain “Rage: You deal 50% more damage, gain +50% critical chance, but take 300% more damage when hit”. Having a minimum requirement of 3 armor pieces, and 3 trinkets to get the effects first tier effects (making the next tier 5 armor pieces + 5 trinkets, and the last tier all armor + trinkets + weapons matching) will make players make decisions on if they want to use a full set, part of a set and mix it with others, or part of 2 sets to get different bonuses. This way if a set is inherently strong there is now a real risk applied to the gear, but has a strong pay off (like the character Guts from Berserk). If a set is very weak like Nomad’s gear it could receive a stat modifier called “Ventari’s Power: Gain Power equal to 50% of your Toughness, Healing Power, and Vitality. Randomly gain a random Aura when struck (cooldown 15 seconds)” which would give the gear a bit more of a presence and viability in combat or parties.

Random Attack Patterns, ( + )Monster Attack Speed, ( – )Monster Damage
Part of the reason Zerk builds can survive is because monsters follow a very rigid attack pattern with few triggers to make them do other things. Making the attack patters more random and harder to read creates a true threat to a Zerk player because they rely on avoiding certain attacks to live. Players geared more towards sustain rather than damage will be able to compensate easier this will at least allow players to choose if it is worth going with a complete set of Zerk gear or if mixing in other gear types may help.

The Combo
Combining everything I mentioned above could work, but if you make the monsters too tough and don’t compensate enough with the gear sets then it’s just like it was before. Players will try to find the fastest way to get rid of the threat and we’ll still be on the dps tracks. Balancing the gear with special stat modifiers is a great way to add a new dynamic to the game and randomizing the attack patterns so we can have a new experience each time would be fantastic. It’s a delicate art, but I think with a little work and brainstorming this could be a great way to fix the Zerk meta.

These are just thoughts and by no means were meant to be taken 100% seriously. I was just trying to deliver the concept of what I have in mind.

Let me know what you guys think!

Indeed, but I think we are forgetting our weapon swap cool down?

I’m torn on it – I like the name, but I dislike the name.

Part of the reason I like it is because – dragon >.>

Part of the reason I don’t like it is because it has almost nothing to do with dragon’s.

I personally would appreciate ALL the elite specs if there was a story behind each one and how my character “evolved” into this new form.

I’d like to see racial skills evolve in some way, but I don’t think these listed here fit what I had in mind. These are “okay” trait lines, but there would need to be a bit more power/utility involved to make them seem more viable. As it stands, very few racial skills ever get used and simply giving a slight functionality boost to them isn’t enough to make you break away from a current “meta” play style.

Tbh – Anet doesn’t get that concept either it seems. The game is designed in a way that allows zerk players to exist and flourish. Zerk builds are minimal in sustain, but they have their “oh $h~1~t!” buttons. Thus, trying to break the current meta is difficult if the game’s design doesn’t change. Without finding a solution to this problem it’d be an awful shame to see a fair amount of work be put in to the game and have it be entirely for nothing. People may play builds other than Zerker, but it is because they’ve found a build that has synergy with itself and suits their play style. Currently there are few racial skills that have synergy with anything.

The last thing to consider is what happens if you accomplish this? Did you possibly just create a race that is now actually superior to others? Or did you create a system in which most players will now assume that specific classes should be specific races to optimize their use?

Not bashing your idea, but showing you the flaws that may be there so you can iron them out

From my limited understanding of that function I can’t say precisely what it is doing, but from a visual perspective I can infer a bit.

It seems that this is disabling Aero when it activates the game. I’ve seen my Aero turn on and off occasionally at random times and other times when the graphics display driver malfunctioned notification came up.

If this procedure you described truly had fixed the black screen issue (which I have been having recently too) then this is a major error in the program that the devs need to fix because the game should be able to operate around Aero – especially when there is a huge excess of system resources not being utilized (like in my case).

Other things I’ve noted have been that (quickly noting that I dual screen) when I experience the black screen sequence of events a few things happen.

Prior to black screen:
1) My game screen freezes
———Mouse still functions
———Audio seems fine and the game carries on as if I was still playing
————-PvE results in no/limited motion control from keyboard input
——————Some commands may get through becoming more start/stop motion type
————-Movement/Jumping/Skill Activation (mine or otherwise) is audibly
—————-transmitted
————-PvP timers continue ticking and matches may still begin
2) Selecting internet tabs on the other screen still work
3) Browsing may be uninhibited for a time but will eventually lock up

When black screen occurs:
1) Both screens black out for a variable time (yet identical between the two)
———Mouse still functions
———Audio seems fine and the game carries on as if I was still playing
————-PvE results in no/limited motion control from keyboard input
——————Some commands may get through becoming more start/stop motion type
————-Movement/Jumping/Skill Activation (mine or otherwise) is audibly
—————-transmitted
————-PvP timers continue ticking and matches may still begin
2) Game screen may…
———Recover
————-If in PvP the timers are then off by the amount of time I was in black screen
——————Ex: 11:30 seconds remain in a match and then the black screen hits for 10
————————-seconds. The remaining time will stay at 11:30, but now I will be 10
————————-seconds behind the clock. This was noted by abnormal shrine spawn
————————-times in Temple of the Silent Storm.
———Crash and Pixelate
————-Causes (Not Responding) to appear in the task bar on Gw2
——————Forces me to close the game or restart my computer
3) Second monitor will always recover normally

I think the people making this game run on different OS’s need to answer this thread >.>

An “Activate” button like in PvP Reward Tracks would be cleaner imo.

I believe we’ve covered the basics and understand how to use the mastery system and how its progression system works.

Now I’d like to actually “test” the parts that are going to be harder to acquire in the Beta. How about on this last test you guys unlock all the mastery traits for the beta accounts so we can test them out for you?

Can’t log into regular characters either atm?

Anyone else having a lot of DC problems atm?

Just some quick things to mention…

(Armor Class – Base HP – Profession) – ref. sources 1 & 2 below

1) T3 – T3 – Warrior
2) T3 – T2 – Revenant
3) T3 – T1 – Guardian

4) T2 – T2 – Ranger
5) T2 – T2 – Engineer
6) T2 – T1 – Thief

7) T1 – T3 – Necromancer
8) T1 – T2 – Mesmer
9) T1 – T1 – Elementalist

This list shows the natural balance inherent to the class of your choice

However, in regards to you Necro query – they have interesting options available to them (especially considering HoT).

Necros are typically seen as a condition heavy class (though in pvp they focus power due to the augmentation to that stat while in Lich Form).

The fact that they are typically condition heavy leads to a lot of mixed views on the class. In solo play this is great because it makes killing things easy, but in team play you could be rendered entirely useless. How? This is due to source counting in the game. As there is a maximum count of 9 sources that can affect a single target at a time you’ll find that occasionally you’ll be incapable of apply conditions (though this is rather rare due to duration times). Consider this: 9 characters (with no condition dmg stats) each simultaneously hit a target for 1 stack of bleeding that lasts for 60 seconds (not real, but roll with it). This effectively cuts off your ability to apply conditions to the target for the duration of those 60 seconds. Keep in mind, however, that most durations are short enough that they fall off quickly (Ex: 9 characters using 3 second bleeds 1 second apart each leading to only 3 sources still being active by the last cast).

There are other methods of play such as Minion Master (which is commonly frowned upon due to minion’s naturally low hp and armor), using Wells (which can be decent for support), high life force gain to keep yourself in Death/Reaper Shroud, and others.

The Reaper Specialization will be much different as it will focus on more melee type combat (though all other previous ranged options are still available). Due to their design you’ll be able to have natural damage reductions that will effectively make you seem more like a Medium or Heavy armor class due to the passive -15% incoming damage from having chill likely on all foes, -33% incoming damage when using Protection, and reducing the remaining 52% incoming damage to 26% by using Weakness. This is why they will be problematic in combat situations.

I suggest you read these pages for more information:
1) http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Necromancer
2) http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition
3) http://dulfy.net/2015/05/15/gw2-reaper-necromancer-elite-specialization-livestream-notes/

Sources used:
1) http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armor
2) http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Health

A side note for why you’re seeing the eyes go up in price is because there are only a finite amount of them listed at the price you first see. After you start reaching the point where they are almost gone you’ll see 2 things happen.

1) They will have naturally climbed in price due to people having constantly undercut their competition and those who were undercut are all that remain.

2) The remaining sellers may pull their items off the TP or buy out the remaining portion to fully control that market.

At this point it wouldn’t surprise me if someone came in and bought the rest of those items on the TP since it is possible for them to control the market of those eyes that way.

Everyone has a play style that they enjoy, but finding that can be a challenge. You’ll want to identify if you enjoy close combat or ranged combat and then figure out if you want to play support or not. From there you can start looking at classes that suit your liking, but keep in mind that you WILL have “Meta” elitists trying to tell you to play a certain way; don’t let them sway you (unless you like that style). You should play the game how you want to play it.

Thinking ahead with HoT coming up soon i’d make sure you’re reading up on the new changes and “Elite Specializations” that are going to be coming out as these (so far) have been drastically altering the previous paradigm in which these classes were tied to (Ex: Necromancer → Reaper = Ranged → Melee).

My only side note is that the game itself in many ways was not designed for “solo” play (Ex: Arah P4 >_<). I too play solo rather often, but I acknowledge the fact that I can’t do everything alone. Therefore, I build my characters to suit my needs, but I try to twist the build a little more in favor of “team play” – while still leaving the ability to switch back to “solo play” whenever I want.

Hopefully that helps?

“Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns is now available for prepurchase. Buy now to receive the Maguuma Trailblazer exclusive title and access to all beta weekend events.”

Source: http://dulfy.net/2015/05/19/gw2-upcoming-items-from-may-19-patch/