What? Thats a lot of classes to list, and some of the main classes I have focused on since…forever.
But no, I don’t think spvp is much fun with bunker specs being king due to the game types available to us.
Sort of think engis are the worst thing about the game right now, not strictly speaking from a power level stand point but also just as fun versus an opponent.
Bunker builds are and always have been out of control, now there is sort of a counter in the form of conditions but that isn’t the best case scenario either.
Eng is big on condis, just sitting on a point in bunker spec and all around being the most annoying class in the game, in my personal opinion. Not trying to be overly negative on the class, just think it has created an extremely negative play experience. Granted a lot of this is also because conquest is the only game type.
Conditions hate on bunker builds and are good for the game…. Imo warriors are the only class that are completely at a loss as far as conditions go, but the class is sub par anyway.
If anything needs to go or be changed it is the new weakness and the ability for engi to both bunker and be crazy mobile. Also keep in mind its 30pts for necro burn on crit 10 for engi.
There are power and offensive builds that do fine against condition builds, strengthening turtling/bunker builds (which such a boon would do) just makes pvp horrible.
Isn’t weakness and blind a bigger issue than the actual damage anyway?
So you don’t want there to be any counter to bunker builds?
Winning over a weekend most people spend with family means nothing. =)
Still don’t have a reliable source of invulnerability/stability/quickness for stomps, necro is the only class without one.
It isn’t okay that it has zero synergy with condi builds which were supposed to be the focus of the class.
Warriors were already the worst class and relied the most on quickness, this is just cruel and unusual punishment.
Long live our bunker overlords?
Forum trolls are going to be forum trolls, so a lot of just play the game even when all SoR oceanic decide to run ikittenerg with members of TW and Choo who stayed up during the night. I don’t mind the fights because playing against overwhelming forces and still taking objectives, holding them and occasionally wiping a zerg that is almost double your size due to use of terrain is why I still play the game and why I didn’t rage-quit last night.
I see that some guys are talking kitten, its understandable SoR not so much capitalised on reduced numbers but is just doing smart play in focusing second seed. You have to keep in mind that last night we had 23 guildees in WvW last night + 8 or so malitia against:
Choo – 15-20
HIRE – 20
OCX – 10-15
TW – 5 or so
Others: 10-15All running around as a unit with a single commander, but seeing as we still had some good fights; fighting SoR in outer hills after they bought ghost tonics (caught you guys in a choke and by surprise), fighting them in garrison where they charged a 50 odd feet on the battlements through all of our CC and necro wells (I love these guys), and when we made a push with a CC/blowout train.
Meh, the fights were fun and crazy kitten was done. Even though the score didn’t really reflect the amount of effort my guys were putting in, we were chucked into a kittenty situation under poor odds and managed to get a good fight. I can be happy enough about that at least, thanks guys for holding on.
The #s are way off, but those were some fun fights.
Well, I have been in EB BL 24hours ago defending BG main keep from both zerg JQ and SoR.
The keep was surrounded by JQ zerg on one side and SoR zerg on the other in the closest towers.
The keep was out of supplies, no sieges, no more walls outter and inner nor gates.
There were waves of both zergs.
It was a farm fest… like someone previously said. We killed hundreds of them and they kept coming en masse :p Choo was cute and scared everytime they attempt running in ^^
SoR and JQ wasn’t hitting each others at all.
And it’s T1 material ??? Must be a joke…. I won’t give every guilds tags but if someone make a nice video of that epic fail from SoR and JQ please mail me.
Really… If Kaineng replace SoR => JQ will suffer hard believe me…
I am very disappointed in T1 it’s a level and quality of play way under T2 servers FA/TC/KN all would deserve your place 1000 times.
Overall I came to find out that I love T1 when skills beats numbers only lag can save you :p If not it would last 4 hours longer. haha
The T1 forum doesn’t look appealing neither… You guys really need to work on you.Titan War (PS-Redguard//CD-LORD//KN-RISE//BG-XXX)
Not sure who you were farming but SoR only kept backing out to keep farming you both inside, and at your respawn. Some people are delusional. =)
Whether or not balance suggestions hold as much merit from a casual player, quality of play experience (or issues of fun) should.
It is good to hear all opinions for different reasons, threads phrased like this however are terrible as you are likely to do more harm than good. Discouraging people from voicing their opinion is never a good thing.
Sounds like someone lost a fight and isn’t happy, which is an understandable reaction. @gvgdrama
Every server has zergs as well as small groups doing their own thing. No one server is a beautiful and unique snowflake in that regard.
T1 thread was a lot less toxic without BG, yet they seem to think they are the poor innocents being bullied? =D
Seems unreal to complain about SoR zergs. There have been plenty of guilds out this week who just run 2-3 groups and of course combine if need be to tackle a larger force. 15 of us trying to take on 2-3x our number would be silly.
There are many highly skilled WvW guilds on SoR, some of them are just smaller and harder to notice in the zerg balls.
Tried to do Arah story mode and it appears to bug out, can’t get on the chopper?
Guildy has had this happen to him multiple times.
I was able to complete this on another character months ago but seems broken now.
A game is usually balanced when everything is being complained about equally. When one (or two) classes tends to be called out by the rest of the player base there is usually an issue.
The only issue I see with calling the thief OP (and it is in WvW, maybe not Spvp) is that the stealth mechanic is one of the most negative any game designer could add to their game. Regardless of the MMO people are always going to hate the stealth class be said complaints balance related, or simply a negative play experience.
Not defending the thief here, just saying people should consider whether it just isn’t fun to play against versus an actual power level issue.
Can’t believe people are bringing up warriors in this thread, warrior damage is about as honest as it gets.
Have said it before, as have others, its going to be hard to balance the class until they fix the stealth/culling issues where an invisible player can kill you because they are not being rendered. Until that happens and people have spent some time playing without the culling… its hard to have a balance discussion.
I don’t see how ANY thief player can think it is fair that stealth is not working as intended in WvW, I certainly don’t.
Also wanted to add, as far as stealth goes while it is mostly a thief issue there is a the good WvW groups always hit their opponents after going through a stealth/invis field. With culling being hit or miss anyway, this tactic gives one side plenty of free kills before the other have even seen them load.
(edited by Dralor.3701)
Sad to hear this is account wide, assuming a good number of us switch chars based on situational needs, for variety, solo vs grouping etc. This will be especially brutal if the higher ranks will be difficult to obtain like high RR in other games.
Not sure what part of D/D there is to stun break since its just raw damage, also fail to see how it is possibly the worst weapon set when it has the highest burst. Unless that dude was just kidding?
Because D/D has ZERO utility. Let’s go through the skills 1 by 1 and I’ll show you:
#1. Auto chain is crap compared to Sword, and terms of condition spec is fails as well. Only thing good about it is Backstab which in most cases isn’t the best stealth attack.
#2. Heartseeker is great to close gaps and as a finisher. Great leap finisher as well. The problems arise in that HS is best utilized in a D/P build. In D/D its VERY situational if you want to live for any amount of time.
#3. Waste of initiative.
#4. Waste of initiative in 90% of cases
#5. CnD nuff said.
1-3 is available to D/P while maintaining a significantly better stealth upkeep w/ Pistol OH. D/P>>>>D/D period.
Sword/Anything #1, #2, and #3 skills are far superior to D/D. The only thing dagger has is BS damage of which is prolly the most EASILY countered ability in this game.
I’d get into Pistol MH but that’s getting into condition specs (which you are focusing on BS damage specs)
The most OP’d set up on a thief right now is D/P + S/D. This puts even P/D thieves down w/out much hassle….well if the person is remotely skilled that is.
<edit>
Also its quite obvious you do not play a thief. Any thief worth his salt will tell you the exact same things about the weapon sets. If all you wanna do is zergball….well it really doesn’t matter which class you pick let alone weapon set.
I’ve played thief tons. Not going to argue dagger has poor utility, all that matters to me is the weapon set’s burst damage. Living is no issue with escapes granted via shortbow, shadowstep and shadow refuge.
Not sure what part of D/D there is to stun break since its just raw damage, also fail to see how it is possibly the worst weapon set when it has the highest burst. Unless that dude was just kidding?
Learn to fight invisible players who can reset at will is not specific advice, there is in fact no advice you can give. The only two tactics that work are stalling while you run to safety, being a full bunker spec who they can never kill or running with a mob.
See that there is the attitude. We’ve tried explaining coming tactics, weaknesses, tendancies. Other players try to ignore it or talk it down. They don’t want to improve, they want free kills.
I’m really confused. As someone who plays a thief myself, everyone else does feel like free kills (when I’m on my thief!). Its really boring when the other player can’t fight back, there is almost zero interaction.
You’re D/D right?
Yup.
Learn to fight invisible players who can reset at will is not specific advice, there is in fact no advice you can give. The only two tactics that work are stalling while you run to safety, being a full bunker spec who they can never kill or running with a mob.
See that there is the attitude. We’ve tried explaining coming tactics, weaknesses, tendancies. Other players try to ignore it or talk it down. They don’t want to improve, they want free kills.
I’m really confused. As someone who plays a thief myself, everyone else does feel like free kills (when I’m on my thief!). Its really boring when the other player can’t fight back, there is almost zero interaction.
Learn to fight invisible players who can reset at will is not specific advice, there is in fact no advice you can give. The only two tactics that work are stalling while you run to safety, being a full bunker spec who they can never kill or running with a mob.
It is hard to make a call one way or the other until they fix culling, but even with that being said it would be more constructive if the other side simply didn’t say l2p.
Apparently a lot of crazy thief players out there! Its amazing so many must think their opponents are just border line handicapped choosing never to fight back?
At best a gear/skilled player can only hope to mitigate the damage of a WvW thief. Unless the thief is terrible, all it takes is forcing the other player to blow long cooldowns while relying on short stealth/teleport timers to reset the fight, over and over and over.
For what its worth, not hating out of spite or anything either. My first 10k+ WvW kills were on my thief but it has gotten boring, and its bad for the game.
Making it per account instead of per char would certainly help.
Missing events as well, so far three today because of this. Extremely frustrating and (in my opinion) unacceptable.
Not sure where our “80 man zergs” were last night but there was plenty of time during NA primetime we had the out manned buff.
Imo it only feels terrible against trap rangers, bunker specs are no fun too but its really the rangers that make being a warrior miserable.
Until solo queue and premades are separated there is no reason to play anymore.
It isn’t fun on either side when the game isn’t close, and the relatively toxic community which exists in most MMOs where a full premade thinks they are pro for beating a total pug.
The problem is whether its an actual balance issue, or a technical problem. Again thieves aren’t dominating all the Spvp tournaments, the problem is just the interaction between stealth/culling in WvW.
If the supposed removal of culling doesn’t balance the thief class in WvW then it is time to rage about it, until then remain calm and lets see if it solves the problem.
Some people have used 1h sword for mobility forever, its just taken some people a bit longer to catch on.
More viable builds would be nice however.
Please don’t confuse stealth being broken/overpowered with thieves themselves being OP.
It just needs to be fixed in WvW, the class isn’t dominating in spvp.
Stats are different in spvp but that is of course reflected both in the damage being dealt, and also mitigated. So as a whole the thief class is fine, its just a broken/buggy mechanic outside of spvp.
The problem is just how stealth works in WvW, where even upon attacking from stealth the thief takes a much longer time to load onto the screen.
Not sure what game you are playing but no, thieves do not become visible in WvW when they first make an attack.
In Spvp yes, I can see said thief as soon as the first move is used, or when I play a thief in Spvp people react as if they see me when I open on them.
In WvW I just sit there taking damage from an invisible source, when playing a thief in WvW the people I fight against do not react as if they can see me (if they aren’t killed outright in the opener).
I find it funny how people call WoW a broken kitten game (which it is), and then say anet should make gw more like wow. Hmmmm
I thought wow did a good job with stealth though. They didn’t have permastealthed killing enemies before the enemies could ever defend themselves.
Excuse me? WoW had stunlocking.
Stop trolling, please.
not trolling. I was addressing stealth, not other things. stop the personal attacks please.
That wasn’t a personal attack, I was pointing out that you’re trolling when you say stealth was fine in wow. You had guaranteed kills on people from stealth, unless they had a stunbreaker.
That’s not a problem with stealth. That’s an issue with stun.
Well then, if a thief kills you with Basilisk Venom -> C&D -> Steal -> Backstab combo before you even see him that’s not a stealth problem, since you can get out of it using a stun breaker. Sounds like issue with stun, right?
They didn’t have permastealth there
Apart from the whole being able to stay in stealth permanently.
There is a big difference between staying in stealth permanently, and having the appearance of permanent stealth while still being able to fully function in attack. The problem with thieves in GW2 WvW is they can take full action against you while not being rendered on the screen. In other games with perma stealth you can see the thief/rogue as soon as they take their first action.
Thieves are OP in WvW due to culling issues, once that is fixed they won’t be an issue.
Listing stability, stealth and quickness as unstoppable is silly. Mistform/elixer S stomps are in a completely different league.
Well I would just assume most people could agree it isn’t okay, you don’t seem to entirely disagree yourself.
Another example, though different for various reasons etc. and not that I like to talk about WoW, but look at the paladin bubble. This used to be a mechanic that was pretty terrible all around, of course they eventually made it so you could mass dispel dispel the bubble..enter a counter and interesting gameplay.
They don’t need to gut mist form or the elixer by any means, but some form of change(s) need to be made. Again, its just one aspect I find to be super poor and extremely frustrating. It should be an easy issue for them to address.
Taken from another thread, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRBcjsOt0_g
But I mentioned this earlier, there is no counter to the immune to everything stomp, its poorly designed. Again, with other forms of stomps maybe the person could be CCed, interrupted, killed etc.
To coin the term used in the video there is no counterplay to mist form or elixer s.
Sorry, I thought the goal was for pvp to be fun, balanced, and competitive.
That is a poor argument, they still have plenty of survivability and it allows them to stomp in situations where they shouldn’t be able to.
Usually there is something wrong with an ability in any game when it is an auto take, like mist form or elixer s. Both are good enough without the free stomp, granting the amazing defensive cooldown in addition to an invulnerable stomp is far too much.
As much as I hate to ask what really like some feedback on the justification for this.
i find downed state actually makes the battle unique,you have a chance to turn the tide around upon rally. Hope downed state stays in this game
I also think it is interesting/different from other games, just wish this one aspect would be tweaked.
Again, think stealth/stability/quickness stomps are fine. Just not fully immune to everything stomps.
My beef with it is that it is an unfortunate design decision, it is limited to two classes and has no player interaction. It also isn’t cool or fun for people on either end, even more reason for it to not be allowed.
Stability and quickness are fine, they allow for interaction with the other team via damage, CC, boon removal etc.
People are derailing a complaint about one mechanic into a class balance thread which this is not… I am only addressing the merits of people being able to be immune to everything while finishing a player off.
Putting mist form/elixir S on cd to stomp somebody will put himself in a position where he has no escapes at all. Your team can instagib him at this point.
How do they have no escapes? Both of these classes are usually bunkers, but anyway this isn’t the point of my topic. Please read what I have written below.
Plenty of classes use quickness, stealth, stability etc. to stomp but those abilities can still be countered. (or the player killed)
The point is two abilities are completely immune to any sort of interruption/damage. It doesn’t make sense, it isn’t fun and it makes for extremely poor interaction/counter-plays. A player should not be allowed to stomp with one of these abilities active.