Devs will never allow rangers to play without their pet in gw2 they said this numerous times.
They also said that rangers were going to be the jack of all trades prof, but that’s ele, they also said our pets were going to have “evolutions” like in GW1, and most recently they even said they were going to fix our utilities…
So… yeah, as you can see, what they say isn’t always what ends up happening!
@jub, actually sigil of ice will still proc, sigils of the same type IE weapon swap, on crit, stack per kill, are the sigils that don’t play nice with the SAME TYPE of sigil.
Well pets are good in PvP and are -ok- in dungeons (just about every non pet option is better atm though which needs fixing).
That being said, I don’t think this is what we’d need, especially since it’d leave the rangers using this without a profession mechanic, which ANET doesn’t want to happen…
Question: Why isn’t there an elite skill that removes the pet and buffs the ranger somehow?
Yes, why isn’t there ArenaNet ?
Lets make everybody happy and want to stay and play GW2^
quickfix
Agreed, as much as I love the pet I would like it tied to a utility, like comfort animal! Let me Rez my pet at little to no cost (other than the cast time) like in GW1 and I’ll be happy… Take my second pet if you wish ANET, I don’t care, I’d prefer one loyal companion over 30 random pets I cycle through any day!
I’d link the picture of someone’s absolutely AMAZING ranger prof mechanic, but I’m at work and that requires a lot of effort to search it….
Many players of many professions will swap utilities between fights. Sometimes you need more removal or maybe access to stability. Maybe you want to equip a ranged weapon for a particular boss.
Or sometimes you do what me and my friends do, which we call “GW1 style” and you go through without swapping ANYTHING once you step through the portal (other than hitting ~ to swap weapons), that being said this is hardly the “best” option, it’s certainly the more fun one….
You ever use combo fields to help your group blast heal, stack might, or proc weakness on your foe? Devourers make great dungeon pets since you can proc an abundance of might with it’s dual attack and RaO. Have you tried that? You can even try fortifying bond to get even more might on the pet. What about muerellow? Everyone like applying weakness to a boss. Muddy terrain, spike trap, and frost trap turn out to be great choices for skipping trash and/or chilling a boss. Do you make use of these? How much do you let your pet tank the boss as opposed to calling it back? Heck, I’ve been playing since beta weekend and I still wouldn’t consider myself someone who’s mastered all the details of ranger. At one point I thought I had it all figured out. But then I realized there was more options, more things to study, and more things to test.
You’d sacrifice much more damage by using the Devourer Vs. Cat or Bird than a few more might stacks RaO would give you.
And yeah, using snares isn’t exactly some masterful strategy that should have taken you very long to figure out.
And you lose out on a lot of pet uptime + control from using a cat/bird over a wolf, see how this stuff works?
How? Wolf pounce is telegraphed so blatantly and the pet even holds a moment to lunge at his target. Same for howl.
Yes they are, because you know sooooooooo many DUNGEON NPCs will notice those telegraphs and go “whelp better dodge roll!”
Oh wait….
On the hyena thing, it does benefit them most, as BM investment just adds to base stats rather than a percentage of base stats, however it’s not that big of a difference – a 0BM hyena has 47% of the power of a 0BM wolf, a 30BM hyena has 55% the power of a 30BM wolf. So it’s nice but not game-changing.
Sadly though the summoned Hyenas no longer benefit from BM points, it used to be having 2 Hyenas out was better than one wolf (purely damage wise), now they’re “equal”. This change happened back in November (Southsum cove)
@OP great post! It’s really helpful having this since I REALLY like putting points in BM, this will help for future theory crafting builds!
You ever use combo fields to help your group blast heal, stack might, or proc weakness on your foe? Devourers make great dungeon pets since you can proc an abundance of might with it’s dual attack and RaO. Have you tried that? You can even try fortifying bond to get even more might on the pet. What about muerellow? Everyone like applying weakness to a boss. Muddy terrain, spike trap, and frost trap turn out to be great choices for skipping trash and/or chilling a boss. Do you make use of these? How much do you let your pet tank the boss as opposed to calling it back? Heck, I’ve been playing since beta weekend and I still wouldn’t consider myself someone who’s mastered all the details of ranger. At one point I thought I had it all figured out. But then I realized there was more options, more things to study, and more things to test.
You’d sacrifice much more damage by using the Devourer Vs. Cat or Bird than a few more might stacks RaO would give you.
And yeah, using snares isn’t exactly some masterful strategy that should have taken you very long to figure out.
And you lose out on a lot of pet uptime + control from using a cat/bird over a wolf, see how this stuff works?
I see how it proves that pets are terrible in dungeons. Not much else.
You have the option of a huge DPS loss VS. Harder to keep alive but better DPS.
See how this stuff works? It doesn’t.
Um it actually -does- work, I can keep my wolf alive ~95% of the dungeon, birds and cats are made of paper and are only up like 70%, sure they deal a lot of damage, but they ONLY deal damage, and spend a large portion of the time limping around the battlefield being useless…
You ever use combo fields to help your group blast heal, stack might, or proc weakness on your foe? Devourers make great dungeon pets since you can proc an abundance of might with it’s dual attack and RaO. Have you tried that? You can even try fortifying bond to get even more might on the pet. What about muerellow? Everyone like applying weakness to a boss. Muddy terrain, spike trap, and frost trap turn out to be great choices for skipping trash and/or chilling a boss. Do you make use of these? How much do you let your pet tank the boss as opposed to calling it back? Heck, I’ve been playing since beta weekend and I still wouldn’t consider myself someone who’s mastered all the details of ranger. At one point I thought I had it all figured out. But then I realized there was more options, more things to study, and more things to test.
You’d sacrifice much more damage by using the Devourer Vs. Cat or Bird than a few more might stacks RaO would give you.
And yeah, using snares isn’t exactly some masterful strategy that should have taken you very long to figure out.
And you lose out on a lot of pet uptime + control from using a cat/bird over a wolf, see how this stuff works?
I ran a build VERY similar to this, except I used Runes of Ice for the constant 5% damage increase due to their perma chill.
Actually Obsidian, we’re pretty solid in WvW, because you’re either solo fighting against another player solo (like in sPvP), or you’re inside the zerg firing on targets and taking down things (like everybody else).
Or you’re throwing your pet into the fray as you give it cover fire with your catapult and cackle madly as you tear things asunder with your super beefed up pet and your siege weapon that doesn’t care about -your- stats =D!
Um guys…. If you use anything other than Barrage, 3, or auto attack at long range (1000-1500) you’re going to be doing worse DPS than you could.
At long range you may not even want to use barrage, you may only wanna use #3 and #1, now I would post all my test results…. But I was an idiot and posted them directly into what ever thread I commented on like 3 months ago….
But trust me, LB #1 is REALLY good at long range and will outshine SB#1 without fail (assuming you’re using berserker gear and aren’t going for procs).
Yeah. And Chopps still didn’t notice that your nick is Durzlla and not Durzilla xDD
lol i know a TON of people that call me Durzilla instead of Durzlla xD, like just about every guild i’ve been in xD
Well, i know that me, a support built LB ranger, with no food or other buffs have won every fair fire fight in WvW jumping puzzles against stupid shortbow rangers who were fully decked out in food buffs and sharpening stones (item not skill) and thought “Oh i can out dps that long bow ranger from 1200 away!!” i’ve been in.
Can shortbow rangers win in a skirmishy open field fight where they can dance in and out of melee range? Well yes, yes they can, but that’s kind of what that bow is designed for, where the longbow is designed as the stand waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay in the back and snipe people for big damage bow.
I find it funny how a lot of the forum posters pick to argue with someone who has little to no experience in the category they’re arguing in…
The PvPers argue with Chopps (a PvE ranger) and al the PvE players argue with me (a tPvP ranger, god i hate hot joins…), i mean seriously, it’s like me, a biology major, deciding i should go pick on my english major friend because he just referred to a mushroom as a plant instead of a fungus…
Yea, you’d want 30 in Skirmishing, probably 30 in power tree as well, for Longbow Increase with with Pierce Arrows also.
Food wise, I’m guessing what? Rare Veggie Pizza?
Yeah, that’d probably make up for the condi damage you’d be losing out on from wilderness, well that and the whole stats are higher in PvE thing.
EDIT: Ikittenerg fight you could always use Saffron Stuffed Mushrooms instead because there will be PLENTY of people dying.
(edited by Durzlla.6295)
Yeah i’m not gonna lie landing maul is a kitten,
Try turning your character into them as you are casting maul (lead them a little bit) and it should land. Also jump right after casting Maul to make the bear attack look more devastating =)
I have done the jumping thing not gonna lie lol, and i normally will try to lead them with maul yes, we -do- hit everything within the 180 radius, so i tend to aim it towards my targets allies in team fights since they normally don’t expect it xD.
@Zenith, oh, I don’t know how the ICD works? Please tell me more about how I don’t understand such a simple system!!
PS: it’s per player bro, not spirit.
Group effect, duh. The problem is how you exaggerate the ffect of a 1 sec burn proc on a 10 sec ICD.
I’m glad you+your hyenas can stack 4 secs of burning every 10 seconds. Too bad a condi engineer can do that even better and more reliably.
P.S. People, you could give spirits the toughness of a full pvt or cleric guardian with tough/vit traitlines and they will still die quickly. Lupicus aoe bombs and lv40+ fractal aoe is not something high toughness units live through. You HAVE TO dodge them. And minions/pets can’t dodge and they don’t have vigor to dodge as often if they got a standard dodge.
The main form of mitigation in pve is dodging and reflection. Minions/pets have neither, so they die. Nothing short of passive resistance/mitigation of damage+regen will keep up with the amount of aoe sprayed in pve and wvw.
You do realize that my build was designed for tPvP right? I’ve said this in every post i’ve ever commented on for it and EVERY SINGLE TIME someone brings up about how “Well prof X can do it better on the <insert random PVE boss fight with AoEs here>!”, yes that’s nice and all, but that’s not where i use the condi longbow build…
And btw… if i’m in a group with an ele or a guardian WHY would i bring my sun spirit? I’d swap it over to frost spirit or stone spirit because they’d be A LOT more useful in an instance where someone else is applying the burning..
God i swear half the people who make arguments about my build don’t even read the “It was designed for tPvP” part…
I wonder how useful It’d be to make a Rampager Armor SB/LB build for zerging…Since Barrage like you said would do 5 Stacks of bleed on everyone you hit with it.
If i were wearing rampagers i’d absolutely want to alter my build a bit, if it’s for WvW i’d probably take out the 20 points in BM and throw that in skirmishing and take the crits apply bleeding as well… it’d likely be pretty strong.
used to be usable in pvp since you could swap in and out pets midmatch, grabbing a random CC item in your down time was clutch…
But the terribly short range on the pet knockdown and 3 item random F2 that half the time wouldn’t work if you were moving… and how the items took time to pickup and replaced your action bar just made them useless besides that.I spent a few good hours trying to work out a use for the guys, gunk and elixer made me terribly excited, ethereal fields and invuln are amazing, but yeah just not worth it since they are 1 in 3 and to boot the invuln is on a 1s cast…
Well the invuln -does- last 6s (friend timed it), then there’s a mini healing spring (seed), and a mini heal (up to 3k healing) on that piggie, and then the whole Warthog has the Scale which is a lot stronger than gunk (I think it’s bleeding, poison, and weakness? I know it has weakness could be wrong on the others).
I find them pretty nice, i personally think that their charge needs to either 1) Be cast faster + reach destination faster or 2) follow the target for X duration until it either collides with them, or the time runs out.
@Xsorus, Not gonna lie i like your idea a lot more than mine…
@Zenith, oh, I don’t know how the ICD works? Please tell me more about how I don’t understand such a simple system!!
PS: it’s per player bro, not spirit.
Group effect, duh. The problem is how you exaggerate the ffect of a 1 sec burn proc on a 10 sec ICD.
I’m glad you+your hyenas can stack 4 secs of burning every 10 seconds. Too bad a condi engineer can do that even better and more reliably.
P.S. People, you could give spirits the toughness of a full pvt or cleric guardian with tough/vit traitlines and they will still die quickly. Lupicus aoe bombs and lv40+ fractal aoe is not something high toughness units live through. You HAVE TO dodge them. And minions/pets can’t dodge and they don’t have vigor to dodge as often if they got a standard dodge.
The main form of mitigation in pve is dodging and reflection. Minions/pets have neither, so they die. Nothing short of passive resistance/mitigation of damage+regen will keep up with the amount of aoe sprayed in pve and wvw.
You do realize that my build was designed for tPvP right? I’ve said this in every post i’ve ever commented on for it and EVERY SINGLE TIME someone brings up about how “Well prof X can do it better on the <insert random PVE boss fight with AoEs here>!”, yes that’s nice and all, but that’s not where i use the condi longbow build…
And btw… if i’m in a group with an ele or a guardian WHY would i bring my sun spirit? I’d swap it over to frost spirit or stone spirit because they’d be A LOT more useful in an instance where someone else is applying the burning..
God i swear half the people who make arguments about my build don’t even read the “It was designed for tPvP” part…
When I see a Ranger with a longbow, I close on them unless it’s simply too large of a zerg. They have one chance to gain some space from me unless they are using traps/muddy terrain and it is very easy to block or dodge roll it. Once I’m close to them, their #2 is only going to do the same dps as a shortbow ranger hitting me in the face (lol), #3 is going to put vuln on me, and #5 is going to force them to stand still.
When I see a longbow ranger, I see a free lunch.
You see… this is why we have 2 weapon sets, if the ranger let you close with the longbow and then was stupid enough to NOT swap to a melee weapon then they deserve to die and i’d hope you’d kill such a poor player…
It’d be really interesting actually if anyone has done the math. To see actual dmg coefficients between the 2 weapons to compare could be really valuable I think.
I’ve done the testing on shortbow vs longbow soooooooo many times, people just go “Well in a real scenario you don’t get to stand that far away!” or some other excuse and throw LB under the matt.
I mean, i’m sorry, when you’re a 30/30/0/0/10 build + berserker amulet in the mists, you can 3 shot the heavy target dummy with some lucky crits.
A LOT of the testing just goes “Shortbow behind does more damage than longbow at 1500 away!” well god i’d hope so because in a 30/30/0/0/10 build short bow (and longbow) get 10% more damage for flanking, which they don’t get on their longbow because they never flank during the tests…
Longbow > Shortbow when you take all your longbow advantages, not to mention longbow also can have burst and shortbow can not.
Well it’s also a lot easier to get that 10% flanking bonus while skirmishing at close range than standing at 1500. On the other hand, it’s unlikely you’ll keep full endurance very long for the +10% bonus from that marksmanship adept so I guess it kind of evens out.
Regardless, the main issue with the longbow is that it’s so much easier for your opponents to avoid the bulk of its damage. SB is constant, stable damage at any range, while LB relies on maintaining 1000+ distance and landing barrage. I heartily disagree with Anet’s comment that the longbow needs more defensive capabilities, IMO it just needs to connect more easily (eg. built in immobilize like warrior lb pin, faster channel time for barrage).
I was talking purely about damage (well LB has greater control too because of barrage and KB shot), but yeah, it needs some defense and ways to keep the gap open a bit longer, I think a short cripple on LB shot would be useful.
@Zenith, oh, I don’t know how the ICD works? Please tell me more about how I don’t understand such a simple system!!
PS: it’s per player bro, not spirit.
I’d prefer option C…
C: Make spirits REALLY powerful “totems” (IE every enemy in radius is constantly burned until the spirit dies), but leave spirits as super squishy.
And then how would the cooldown be affected? How would this affect protection? +10% damage? Swiftness (lol) ?
Being super squishy, coming from a mesmer with squishy clones, makes things not last very long … enemies usually don’t even have to think about them in order to accidentally kill them while going after you. I’m not for anything that doesn’t require additional thinking on the part of the players involved (both to use and to counter).
CD stays the same, and spirits don’t really move… so the whole thing behind them is to place them intelligently for a powerful effect that can be taken away quickly, like in GW1.
you still apply AoE burning from range with it
But it doesn’t, does it? The burning applies to one attack on one person, and the spirit MIGHT apply the buff to someone else. But “you” the player aren’t applying burning aoe, and the spirit isn’t applying aoe burning either.
Whether or not its viable isn’t really my issue, if it works for you then that’s great. But HOW it works, or might not work, does concern me.
AoE = Area of Effect, there will be 8 allies on the battle field, 2 of them i have direct control over 2 there is 0 control over, the other 4 can be yelled at over a voip on what to be doing. All 8 of them has a 35% chance (it’s hardly a small chance, it seems to happen the first hit you have the buff) to burn some poor kitten for 1s, that either = 8s of AoE on 1 poor kittener (has happenened many a times) or 1s -3s of AoE burning to each member of their team of 5 (normally what we’ll do)
Unless you’re counting a person as an area, burning from Sun Spirit isn’t AoE. The area of effect of the buff might be said to be AoE, but there is no AoE burning created here.
Through spirit of sun you can cause a group of people burn, that’s AoE if you ask me….
This is a great thread! Glad to see the discussions being had.
I’m noticing a lot of people wondering and estimating the size of attacks, durations, and things like that… I will talk with our balance team to see how they feel about adding more detailed skill facts to the spirits.
We’re aware that spirits need more than just skill facts – we’re working on resolving that as well.I’m actually going to recommend against doing that..
Because if you do a tooltip fix for Spirits, and nothing else…you’re going to get skewered on this forum rather badly.
which is why i said what it said…
If you want to “fix” spirits, you should do one of two things;
A: Make them invulnerable with a longer “summoning time” and more cooldown
B: Make them able to move from the beginning, with infinite summoning time, but buff their combat stats (toughness, vitality, AOE immunity)
I’d prefer option C…
C: Make spirits REALLY powerful “totems” (IE every enemy in radius is constantly burned until the spirit dies), but leave spirits as super squishy.
It’d be really interesting actually if anyone has done the math. To see actual dmg coefficients between the 2 weapons to compare could be really valuable I think.
I’ve done the testing on shortbow vs longbow soooooooo many times, people just go “Well in a real scenario you don’t get to stand that far away!” or some other excuse and throw LB under the matt.
I mean, i’m sorry, when you’re a 30/30/0/0/10 build + berserker amulet in the mists, you can 3 shot the heavy target dummy with some lucky crits.
A LOT of the testing just goes “Shortbow behind does more damage than longbow at 1500 away!” well god i’d hope so because in a 30/30/0/0/10 build short bow (and longbow) get 10% more damage for flanking, which they don’t get on their longbow because they never flank during the tests…
Longbow > Shortbow when you take all your longbow advantages, not to mention longbow also can have burst and shortbow can not.
Yeah i’m not gonna lie landing maul is a kitten, the thing has what may be THE MOST telegraphed attack on a player… then again in a team fight it becomes a lot better because you force the enemy team to either eat the maul, eat another teammates big hitter, or waste the dodges they don’t have because they keep dodging short CD big hitters…
That being said, if you go with a sword, GS, or axe/axe build you don’t need condi damage (still don’t think you should ever need condi damage) so you could always try playing around with something more like that if you haven’t already? I know Axe/Axe is actually becoming a lot more popular in tPvP from what i’ve seen (other than trap rangers ofc).
PS: More popular = I’ve actually -seen- several rangers running axe/axe instead of shortbow + traps.
It only checks to see if you have any boons. If yes, you and your pet get +5% damage, if no, you get nada. You do not get increased damage per boon.
It’s individual, if your pet has a boon it gets 5%, if you have a boon, you get 5%, but seeing as how there’s the 15pt nature magic talent you’ll be getting the 5% on both of you when you get a boon (until yours wears off and your pets keeps going due to the whole it probably got its own boon as well).
But yes, you are correct.
you still apply AoE burning from range with it
But it doesn’t, does it? The burning applies to one attack on one person, and the spirit MIGHT apply the buff to someone else. But “you” the player aren’t applying burning aoe, and the spirit isn’t applying aoe burning either.
Whether or not its viable isn’t really my issue, if it works for you then that’s great. But HOW it works, or might not work, does concern me.
AoE = Area of Effect, there will be 8 allies on the battle field, 2 of them i have direct control over 2 there is 0 control over, the other 4 can be yelled at over a voip on what to be doing. All 8 of them has a 35% chance (it’s hardly a small chance, it seems to happen the first hit you have the buff) to burn some poor kitten for 1s, that either = 8s of AoE on 1 poor kittener (has happenened many a times) or 1s -3s of AoE burning to each member of their team of 5 (normally what we’ll do)
Chopps, people’s biggest issue with you is that you say things that simply are not true.
I just finished testing what you guys were saying about Barrage and the various condition applicators and I found that:
- Sharpening Stone does apply the bleed per “wave” of hits, so it is possible to apply 5 bleeds to up to 5 different targets (this was true)
- Sigil of Doom does NOT apply poison to more than one target when you use barrage (so you lied)
- Weakness from spider venom applies it to the spider’s attacks (already knew this was a lie from you)
- Sun Spirit was only ever proccing burning on one target at a time, even when I traited for +15% proc chance and shooting at the large group of golems with sun spirit and barrage.
So the only thing that was true about your posts about this “awesome combo” is Sharpening Blades + Barrage. That makes less than 1/2 what you said be true. That’s not great and this isn’t the first time.
Huh so sigil of doom was nerfed since beta, I assumed that since SS worked on Barrages “wave” that sigil of doom did as well (since it is worded the same) and said it applied the poison to all of them.
This is saddening, but does not alter my choice of sigil….
You gotta admit that people can have a hard time thinking of this build as viable, when this is the kind of theorycrafting it is based on.
Thinking that you have been applying poison to a lot of targets, and writing that you see “damage numbers from bleed and poison all over the place” is not very convincing, when in the end all you did was to apply 5 stacks of bleeding.
I’m not trying to give you two a hard time personally, but i was suspicious about the build when i read the guide the first time.
Even if i REALLY wanted longbow and spirits to be viable, that is just not going to happen before we see changes from Anet.
Well seeing as how it still applies bleeding to the entire group of enemies the build is still VERY strong, the poison was just a bonus and I’m still using the sigil because it still fulfills the role of weapon swapping +attack = heal butcher.
As for the build being viable I KNOW it’s viable I have been using it for 2 weeks and we’ve lost even less tPvP matches since then and I’m the only one whose changed builds…
And in most cases seeing someone flash green and ticking for your poison damage is a pretty kittening good sign you put poison on them, but seeing as how there’s a bug that has “phantom poison” application (they do every visual cue for being poisoned but are not actually poisoned) its no longer a reliable way to test for it.
Idk why the spirits not viable you still apply AoE burning from range with it, the thing has a 900yd radius, ad can apply an maintain its effect on 10 people according to info from someone else on this forum. “Spirits apply their 6s spirit buff every 3s and prefer to put it on targets who 1) don’t have the buff, and 2) aren’t under the effects of the ICD.”
Questions about spirit health and whether ranger stats affects spirits could be tested like this:
- Place storm spirit near non-aggressive mob like a longhorn ram.
- Stand far back and order spirit to shock ram.
- Add up damage numbers as spirit dies.
- Repeat a few times, and then repeat a few times more while not wearing any armor or trinkets.
I did something like this awhile back and I estimated spirits had about 2500 health at level 80 untraited, but I wasn’t trying different armor setups or anything at the time.
Spirits do not gain any vitality from the master, they -do- gain some toughness however, how much I can’t say for sure I can say that it’s absolutely less than 50%.
This is what we’re talking about guys … before talking about a build and what it can/can’t do, it’d be great if you actually play-tested the build to make sure it can/can’t actually do those things.
Otherwise, I could talk about how my Mesmer’s scepter is awesome in a condition build because the autoattacks inflict confusion … and, of course, just leave out that it hasn’t done that since early beta … this would be the same as your posts.
Well, i have used my build and the phantom numbers that JK has been experiencing were present in my live action tests (i’m more of a trial by fire sort of guy), so i figured the poison was ticking on them too…
I had the same phantom numbers about 75% of the time while testing in the more controlled areas too and almost got on to say “You’re wrong” until i clicked on the golems to double check.
I can’t figure these phantom numbers out, but I welcome them.
Yeah… i’m not sure what they’re there for, but it seems to only be for poison.
This is what we’re talking about guys … before talking about a build and what it can/can’t do, it’d be great if you actually play-tested the build to make sure it can/can’t actually do those things.
Otherwise, I could talk about how my Mesmer’s scepter is awesome in a condition build because the autoattacks inflict confusion … and, of course, just leave out that it hasn’t done that since early beta … this would be the same as your posts.
Well, i have used my build and the phantom numbers that JK has been experiencing were present in my live action tests (i’m more of a trial by fire sort of guy), so i figured the poison was ticking on them too…
I had the same phantom numbers about 75% of the time while testing in the more controlled areas too and almost got on to say “You’re wrong” until i clicked on the golems to double check.
In TPvP you can contest points quite easily on a thief, But the ability to avoid dying (thus having to Res and come back) is incredibly powerful.
As for Argan, you play a D/P thief (one of the easiest specs in the game), and you’ve played one since September, I’ve played a Ranger, and I played a thief afterward..
So I know the advantage of stealth quite easily.
and I stand by what I said, the ability to reset a fight is incredibly powerful, to do it over and over again is Overpowered.
You can’t contest defended points, but i do agree avoiding the respawn timer and the whole giving the enemy team points for your death -is- a very powerful thing.
Chopps, people’s biggest issue with you is that you say things that simply are not true.
I just finished testing what you guys were saying about Barrage and the various condition applicators and I found that:
- Sharpening Stone does apply the bleed per “wave” of hits, so it is possible to apply 5 bleeds to up to 5 different targets (this was true)
- Sigil of Doom does NOT apply poison to more than one target when you use barrage (so you lied)
- Weakness from spider venom applies it to the spider’s attacks (already knew this was a lie from you)
- Sun Spirit was only ever proccing burning on one target at a time, even when I traited for +15% proc chance and shooting at the large group of golems with sun spirit and barrage.
So the only thing that was true about your posts about this “awesome combo” is Sharpening Blades + Barrage. That makes less than 1/2 what you said be true. That’s not great and this isn’t the first time.
Huh so sigil of doom was nerfed since beta, I assumed that since SS worked on Barrages “wave” that sigil of doom did as well (since it is worded the same) and said it applied the poison to all of them.
This is saddening, but does not alter my choice of sigil….
You havn’t used this Sigil since BETA? O.O
I started using the sigil again about 2 weeks ago with my new longbow condi build (guide on the forums is called “Shoot to Maim Boys!” ), i didn’t recall reading anything on it being nerfed and assumed it still worked the same lol.
That and it’s worded the same kitten so i figured it’d work the same where it applied to the entire barrage wave and not just one target. Going to check this myself to make sure… and i’m almost positive it applies to everyone on Path of Scars, so i may test that and piercing arrows too!
EDIT: Sigil of doom applies to literally only one person now regardless of the skill.
(edited by Durzlla.6295)
As someone with a Thief, let me say..Thieves are overpowered..
Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.
The ability to reset a fight consistently over and over again will always be the most powerful thing in a PvP game.
This is false in tPvP, the thief may be -the- weakest prof in tPvP for the pure aspect that they are TERRIBLE at contesting a point because their whole strength is getting away… something not so great in tPvP…
That being said, in WvW (and in VERY SPECIFIC tPvP builds) they are really really really powerful and are to be feared if specced and played correctly, but i’d hardly say they’re OP.
@jk thanks for the thief input! I personally knew a lot of the info (not specifics just roughly what you and the others said), but it’s nice to see it with more details than i knew, and i’m sure there’s PLENTY of people on this forum who knew none of it!!
Chopps, people’s biggest issue with you is that you say things that simply are not true.
I just finished testing what you guys were saying about Barrage and the various condition applicators and I found that:
- Sharpening Stone does apply the bleed per “wave” of hits, so it is possible to apply 5 bleeds to up to 5 different targets (this was true)
- Sigil of Doom does NOT apply poison to more than one target when you use barrage (so you lied)
- Weakness from spider venom applies it to the spider’s attacks (already knew this was a lie from you)
- Sun Spirit was only ever proccing burning on one target at a time, even when I traited for +15% proc chance and shooting at the large group of golems with sun spirit and barrage.
So the only thing that was true about your posts about this “awesome combo” is Sharpening Blades + Barrage. That makes less than 1/2 what you said be true. That’s not great and this isn’t the first time.
Huh so sigil of doom was nerfed since beta, I assumed that since SS worked on Barrages “wave” that sigil of doom did as well (since it is worded the same) and said it applied the poison to all of them.
This is saddening, but does not alter my choice of sigil….
What do you mean you don’t see anything justifying the numbers coming off? You mean a ranger thats burning your warrior down? Most of your stats come from the armor so maybe thats why your ranger doesn’t put off that condition damage? From my testing, my opinion is that 1000 condition damage is about where opponets really start to “feel” it.
This is true, not to mention most people ten to go high armor and healing power + low health so conditions will burn through them pretty badly, not to mention its not too hard to get over 1000 which causes even more pain.
@misterdevious
Well your #3 was testing the active, which I WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT, it’s the PASSIVE that gets extended to longbow range….
5) well seeing as I’ve barraged rangers, mesmers, and MM as I was testing my build and it applied bleeding to ALL hit and only removed 1 “stack” of SS, as well as openin strikes, sigil of doom, and all other on hit effects apply to everything hit by a piercing arrow you’re just flat out wrong here. Opening Strikes especially has been tested many a times on this forum.
If I didn’t refer to it I don’t disagree with it.
Provide some evidence of you doing this, and how are you targetting all at once to determine if it hit all at once?
I use the simple aspect of “bleed and poison numbers are flying off of their toon” to know if I hit them in combat, for vuln I’ve just tested in the mists because it lasts long enough to just click on the golems.
As a Condition Necro, and Condition/BM built Ranger I often see numbers that appear to be conditions, yet there are no conditions to justify the numbers I see. I’m sure everyone has seen this by now.
So just seeing numbers is not; “evidence of” something existing.
I’ve been working on a parser to capture everything that is happening, but it works one minute, and not the next. Once me and about six others can figure out how to get the parse working 100% of the time, I can correct many of the misconceptions, and misleadings many spread on the forums.
I’ll test it tomorrow to make sure I’m correct though, we’ve also epidemiced the mobs and they’d end up with 10 bleeding… Soooo I’d assume that’d do it, but again I’ll check it next time I’m on… If I remember…. Send me a mail IG so I don’t forget.
Quit theorycrafting, and provide videos please. You two could run naked, with nothing traited, and claim it is good, just because.
Well I put up a guide for my current sPvP build and I’ve explained several times why I can’t do vids, so if its such a big deal you have a video go make one, or, you know, play some tPvP with me, but oh wait, PvE is the only place stuff matters right?
WvW is the only place stuff matters.
You switch which aspect of the game only matters more often than I lose interest in things…. It’s quite astonishing…
It was sarcasm because you said; PvE is the only place stuff masters, right?
Or did you forget what YOU said? <face meets palm>
That was me quoting you from a previous post, I personally think tPvP is the only place balance really matters seeing as how WvW and PvE have good buffs and all these weird gear options and etc etc that create really OP builds cough health leaching flame thrower cough cough
Quit theorycrafting, and provide videos please. You two could run naked, with nothing traited, and claim it is good, just because.
Well I put up a guide for my current sPvP build and I’ve explained several times why I can’t do vids, so if its such a big deal you have a video go make one, or, you know, play some tPvP with me, but oh wait, PvE is the only place stuff matters right?
WvW is the only place stuff matters.
You switch which aspect of the game only matters more often than I lose interest in things…. It’s quite astonishing…
@misterdevious
Well your #3 was testing the active, which I WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT, it’s the PASSIVE that gets extended to longbow range….
5) well seeing as I’ve barraged rangers, mesmers, and MM as I was testing my build and it applied bleeding to ALL hit and only removed 1 “stack” of SS, as well as openin strikes, sigil of doom, and all other on hit effects apply to everything hit by a piercing arrow you’re just flat out wrong here. Opening Strikes especially has been tested many a times on this forum.
If I didn’t refer to it I don’t disagree with it.
Provide some evidence of you doing this, and how are you targetting all at once to determine if it hit all at once?
I use the simple aspect of “bleed and poison numbers are flying off of their toon” to know if I hit them in combat, for vuln I’ve just tested in the mists because it lasts long enough to just click on the golems.
Quit theorycrafting, and provide videos please. You two could run naked, with nothing traited, and claim it is good, just because.
Well I put up a guide for my current sPvP build and I’ve explained several times why I can’t do vids, so if its such a big deal you have a video go make one, or, you know, play some tPvP with me, but oh wait, PvE is the only place stuff matters right?
@misterdevious
Well your #3 was testing the active, which I WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT, it’s the PASSIVE that gets extended to longbow range….
I mean my god… I thought that was self explanatory, do you realize how OP a 1200 radius immobilize would be? I don’t even know why you thought it’d be the active that became that large…. Just….. How….
4)not a bug, siege are structures and this are immune to both boons and conditions making them immune to the procs on spirits of stone and storm
5) well seeing as I’ve barraged rangers, mesmers, and MM as I was testing my build and it applied bleeding to ALL hit and only removed 1 “stack” of SS, as well as openin strikes, sigil of doom, and all other on hit effects apply to everything hit by a piercing arrow you’re just flat out wrong here. Opening Strikes especially has been tested many a times on this forum.
If I didn’t refer to it I don’t disagree with it.
But you can land conditions while they’re stealthed…. It doesn’t give them invulnerability, see that thief who literally JUST STEALTHED in front of you? Hit him in the face with split blade now that his heals been used!!
Actually hit for barrage = first 5 waves of arrows, in addition if you run piercing arrows (or path of scars) that applies just 1 “hit” of sharpening stones/sigil/ venoms/what have you to everything hit and leaves you with 4 more hits of SS.
EDIT: you have to remember that a HIT means a SINGLE STRIKE, for example, if I shoot 1 arrow that passes through 20 people, that’s 1 hit and will apply its on hit effect to ALL 20 people, barrage works in one big hit to that area every X seconds (like lava font and unsteady ground for eles) and as such can punish as many people as the AoE can effect with your on hit effects.
However, skill =/= hit, if I were to use Rapid Fire (without piercing arrows) it’d apply the effect to the first X number of people it hits(or misses/is evaded/blocked by). Same with attacks like split blade and volley.
(edited by Durzlla.6295)
@awge, yeah QZ isn’t on my bar very often now, I bring it more for the whole “kill securing” thing in team fights, IE: almost killed their GC, CC warrior goes “Lawlz skull crack!” So I pop it and end their GC. As a burst tool… It’s, “ok” but I’d much rather take Sick’Em.
Also I agree that a lot of people are just SUPER DEMORALIZED that their build they spent all this time/money on just got boned with one nerf, they (ANET) really need to get something else to boost our QZ/direct damage to kinda compensate for those builds because they got hit HARD.
That being said, you can still -do- direct damage and be viable, but looking at before and after the patch is like night and day.
(edited by Durzlla.6295)
Durz, that favorite defensive build of yours was the one I was actually considering mentioning, since it sounds like a rather good one on paper (I was actually studying the various trait builds for about an hour and a half).
I’ve used it in tPvP a few times when my friends needed/wanted a bunker and it is REALLY good at that despite the lack of healing, and depending on your pet choice you can have some mean damage output.
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