Guild Wars 2

Osu.6307:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Osu.6307:

I love these "I’m a great wvw player so why oh why do I get kicked for playing a roaming class (ranger, thief, engi, mesmer). You are playing a roaming class. Go ROAM! If you really wanted to zerg, you would play a zerg class. Good commanders will allow crappy guardians into squad and kick amazing rangers, WHICH SHOULD TELL YOU SOMETHING!!!

so much for play the game your way. I will rebut this by saying that I think its funny that anyone would take wvw seriously in 2017 when there are no rewards or anything gained really by getting rank 1 server at the end of the week.

Your rebuttal is meaningless. Most of us who play wvw have been playing since launch, when the “rewards” were 1% of what they are now. We play because we enjoy the game mode. The reward is fun. If you want rewards like loot and gold, go run around in circles in silverwastes with the other zombies.

You say you can’t play the game your way, but what you really want is everyone else to play your way. Zerging is a team sport. Either play by the rules or get cut from the team.

Tolerant. Nice. And wrong.

Change the rules. Don’t allow boots from a non-full squad if there’s only 1 cmdr for any reason except afk.

Also, why does he have to go to pve? He wants the wvw shiny – it suits his aesthetics.

Monster.4802:

I’ll join in the conversation.

I’m a commander in a T1 server. I know there are many commanders that only aim for the “perfect” setup. They seem to believe that this will give them a major advantage in pug blob fights. The advantage is small, there are other factors that will help more in winning fights. But that means the commander need to improve him/herself and they do not want to face that.

Lucky for you. There are plenty of commanders that do not have the same view. They will accept any player that is pulling their weight, regardless the class.

When I tag up I do not mind having thieves and rangers in the squad. If you play your best I want you in. If you need a small break cuz you have kids and you just say you need a small break I will not kick you.

My only advice is to find the commanders that suit you and follow them. Maybe even join a guild that has this mentality.

Elitism is happening in any part of the game. My advice is to join the non elite groups as there are options.

I really like this post and I am glad u r not exclusionary. U give me hope that I can still play in WvW, a game mode I love in a game I love. Thank you for being a good cmdr!

My only beef is that when there is only one part-full squad on the land you want to be on in ur server and they boot u for some class requirement or TS requirement, where do u go? What cmdr do u follow then? None. Ur just out of game play until they step down.

Shouldn’t be like that. If a cmdr is not running a guild command, he should be open to the public, and if he’s the only cmdr on, he shouldn’t be allowed to boot ppl for any reason if they are actively contributing and the squad is not full. Simple solution. Everyone happy. We all do our best. We all try to win. We all get to play, which is why we bought the game.

Responding to Seera:

“It’s not unsportsmanlike to kick someone from a group that has reasonable rules, which his group had. Requiring TS is not unreasonable.

Oh, so he was supposed to ask you to get on TS everytime he noticed you weren’t on TS? Otherwise, yes remembering that you are deaf is something else that has to be remembered.

And how about taking a deep breath and and actually reading the replies from people who have explained the benefits of TS to you. You may be better trained at acting reflexively when something moves given that you’re deaf. Because you’ve had to train yourself that way since you don’t hear any visual tells. The majority don’t and react faster to auditory tells than visual tells.

And there are pros and cons to being strict vs relaxed and the points in between. For those that are strict, it means if the commander says something will happen, it will. Players don’t have to worry about the commander flip flopping. But players that aren’t meeting requirements don’t get the squad benefits. Nothing is all good or all bad and yes, it’s unfortunate that you fall under the bad side of strict commanders.

But as my mom says, your reaction made a mountain out of a mole hill. I used to do that, then I realized that it’s a waste of energy. And she also says to choose your battles. Your not going to make a strict commander make an exception."

My Response:

Requiring TS of a deaf person is unreasonable. (And none of his business really, and actually personally humiliating for me to have to reveal it to him, but w/e.) It is also unsportsmanlike and not the type of casual friendly play Anet wants and encourages. Its alienating and demoralizing. Booting ppl for having a Rank 80 class the cmdr doesn’t want and cant cope with in a non-full squad is also unreasonable and unsportsmanlike as well.

Cmdr wasn’t supposed to ask me anything. He asked for TS. I pm’ed him and told him I couldn’t. We had several pms about the reasons why I couldn’t – chief among them that I am deaf. He didn’t care. Plain and simple.

There is nothing here for Cmdr to remember. There is nothing for him to sort out/manage. There is nothing for him to check about TS as it relates to me, as he knows I am not on it, and cannot go on it and will never be on it. He either lets me in or doesn’t. He chose didn’t. I chose to react.

Idc that most “hearing” people benefit and improve their game play from TS. How nice for them. How great for the game mode (truly!). I am proud to have them as my teammates with their improved play.

I am not a gaming disgrace to any squad. I’ve been wvw’ing a long time, since beta. I think I get how to play. How do u justify the boot? Please tell me, I’m all ears.

I’m glad I can count on this rigid cmdr to not flip flop on his decision to use his leadership skills to be unreasonably and harshly exclusionary.

So nice that I don’t get the squad benefits. Good to know. I paid my money just like everyone else, and I had boosters running that day that I also paid real life money for (I am poor in game as well).

Yes, it is unfortunate for me that I fell under the “bad side of a strict cmdr.” I was punished nicely. And for what exactly? How did the squad benefit from my boot?

Mountain to me, molehill to u. I went on TC for the time I was booted and complained. How is that a mountain? Cuz u were annoyed? Me too. I was hurt, demoralized, alienated and humiliated that day. It felt like a mountain to me. My boosters were largely wasted, I got less pips (cuz running alongside the zerg rewards less pips), I got less protections. What did u get? And what precisely was the net team positive effect from my boot (beside the fact some don’t like me because I rarely, tho passionately and loudly, complain about unfair game play?

Don’t make a mountain out of my complaining. Pick ur battles. Being on here vociferously supporting a “strict cmdr” who engages in unreasonably exclusionary practices is not what I would characterize as a winning battle. But that’s me. U do what u want. I will do what I want.

Maybe I cant make the Nice, reasonable but “strict” cmdr change his ways. But I’m gonna keep complaining and doing w/e I have to do to help him hear my msg. Maybe Anet can make him change. Maybe they will hear my call for help to prevent others from being singled out, humiliated and booted to the corner or out of wvw game mode altogether.

So sad that none of the “cmdr has his rts” supporters can see fit in your hearts to soften arbitrary, exclusionary restrictions on game play in a casual game intended to be FUN! Believe me, it wasn’t fun that day at all.

Iris Ng.9845:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Reverence.6915:

holodoc.5748:

Reverence.6915:

Well, to be honest, if you’re following the tag, the correct thing to do is to join their teamspeak server if they’re advertising one. Otherwise, get off that particular tag and follow someone else, or put up a tag yourself.

There is no “correct” thing to do. If you are following an open tag (usually blue) then you are not obliged to do anything. TS is a courtesy on both sides, the one providing it and the one choosing to use it or not. However it’s by no means a required tool to play WvW efficiently or successfully.

I don’t frequent these forms too often anymore, but here’s a late reply

Yes, that is the correct thing to do. That person is leading their squad. They set it up how they want. If they don’t want to have someone not in teamspeak in their squad, that’s their right. If they don’t want non-TS users on their tag, that’s their right as well, especially since ANet refuses hidden/guild commander tags. You can go follow another tag, put up your own tag, or roam if you’re not happy with their rules.

Some good points being raised in this thread though

1. Disabilities

Yes. This is a huge problem. Those with disabilities should never be forced into teamspeak. I know I had a couple of people with hearing disabilities explain that to me so I knew to keep them in squad and not force them to join teamspeak. They even joined along later in advertising teamspeak. Also had a person that required hearing aids to hear, but still enjoyed being in teamspeak. Each person is different. Find a commander that is still happy to have you along.

2. Elitists in TS

Yeah… This is an issue. It’s extremely irritating to listen to. Having commanders call out random kitten and blaming random people that aren’t in their guild just feels bad to listen to. I’d leave the channel if that were the case

3. Noisy chatter

Okay, so it’s not for everyone, but TS3, for a lot of people, is a place to socialise with other people on your server. These are the people you have to play with day in and day out (server transfers aside). You’ll find a lot of times, that it will be the same people following specific commanders with a specific group every time. People will find their niche in their server and just hang around them. Each server is a huge community after all.

If you still prefer your music though, what I tend to do is to mute everyone but the commander, and have my music playing through my speakers, while TS3 audio goes through my headphones. Works a treat

---

Honestly, it’s generally better, if you’re following the tag, to join their teamspeak. If you can’t or won’t, just don’t join that tag. Such a simple solution.

So, what tag do I follow, when they’re the only game in town, and I/ve been booted, w. purchased boosters popped and a 2 hr que? O, don’t suggest I reroll and rewait, burning up boosters/food, etc. Don’t suggest I go solo, I have a zerg build and will just get picked off, hurting the server goals. Don’t suggest I run alongside the zerg, as it exactly the same thing as running with the squad w/o TS, only I get no protections so I die more (and the zerg doesn’t get my heals) so the zerg fails more (or alienates me by not rezzing, not healing, etc) and the server goals fail more often (than if I were in squad). I’m confused. Such a simple suggestion that doesn’t help.

I didn’t know you have such a global impact after getting dropped from the squad. Iirc, BG still won the skirmishes during the three hours you were engaging on your Team Chat conquest instead of scoring points. Many bags have been had.

Yes, and when I joined back in u got them faster. And when I was running earlier w/ u u got them faster.

I didn’t say I had a global impact. I said the squad did better with me in it than with me out of it. Think about it, if I’m throwing one or two heals at u u benefitted. If I killed 1 or 2 guys u benefitted. If I’m running alongside, I’m less effective, and squad is impacted. And if I’m on TC complaining and dealing w. trolls, no one is getting benefitted. Not a hard concept and still a truth, despite efforts to deminimize the impact of what I am protesting once again.

Feanor.2358:

Cynz.9437:

With recent changes to wvw, it became clear that classes like guards/war/necro/eles/revs (basically those must have in squad) get advantage over other classes in wvw because they are allowed into squad and allowed to zerg in wvw which allows them to gain ranks/pips faster in wvw. Meanwhile rest of the classes get kicked/forced into roaming due to their class design which results in less rank/pip gains in wvw.
Since wvw community and devs deemed it as fair and logical system i propose that zerg classes (guards, eles and co.) gain less shards/rewards/pips in other game modes (pvp/pve) compared to other classes (engis/druids etc.) to make up for the reward difference.

How, exactly, can anyone prevent you from following the commander/zerg with just about any class or build? So what if you’re not in the squad? WvW is actually the one game mode where class discrimination matters the least. Ask just about any revenant who wants to dps in a raid, for instance.

Um. Being in squad actually matters a lot. Its the immersive experience, not alienating and alone. If I want to be alone, Ill go pve.

If I run alongside the zerg, w/o being in squad I get less heals, rezes, buffs, pips, rewards.

A cmdr can block u from squad, even if its not full, for being deaf (need TS), for being a ranger, engi, etc., for not being willing to scout endlessly days on end, for dying too often (often unavoidable if ur helping others by rezzing), or any old thing they want (they just don’t like u).

Class discrimination in wvw is very real and actually matters a lot. And it shouldn’t be allowed. All who are willing/trying (not afk) should be able to play in a squad and reap the benefits. Stop endorsing exclusionary practices – we paid our good real life money as well (esp when we’ve popped boosters!).

Faaris.8013:

Then just play one of those classes. ArenaNet set the incentive, they might have wished for this.

If nobody plays Thief or Ranger in WvW anymore, maybe ArenaNet changes the incentives, or they don’t care which classes are played in WvW. You as a player are not excluded, you choose to exclude yourself from these rewards if you play a class that doesn’t fit the mode.

There’s no reason to change rewards in other modes to make things “fair”. How fair would it be if people simply played Guardian in WvW and Engineers in PvP/PvE and gain max rewards from all modes?

I know players who switch classes from fractal to fractal and it’s quite common to pick the class that fits a raid best when you join. Nobody is excluded, you get 5 character slots and can get up to 64. And as long as no players are excluded, I don’t see an issue with exclusion. Some classes are better for WvW than others, same goes for raids, fractals, PvE, PvP.

O yah, let me just go rank up another class to Rank 80 and I better make sure its what the paramilitary cmdrs want, cuz if they change it, I will have to start all over again and rank up another new class. O wait, Ive already done that 11 times. O good, at least I’m all set!

Here’s what I don’t get.

Anet provides new pips/rewards in an effort to get new players into wvw as the population was dwindling and becoming less robust and more grindy. It works! Yay, so many new ppl to the game mode that wvw is truly active, fun again, and nice long queues of ppl waiting to get in and help out. Yay! FUN!

And then the inevitable (in this game at least) occurs. The wvw veterans/elitists start complaining:

The ques too long!

Pvers in WvW – go home newbies!

No one gets rewards but us – not just us first, but it will take a newbie 2 yrs or more (if lucky enuf to be in a squad and they r moving/farming for at least 3 hrs a day) to even get what we will get, and they will give up and leave, and we will have our precious armor, but no one to play with or show it off to.

And no new rangers, engis, etc. Not allowed in squad. Must be in TS and not hearing impaired. Must adhere to paramilitary talk, unretractable rules, clickish elitism and inane TS speak. Must get serious. NO casual play. IF so, better bring ur solo build (why not just play in pve then?).

Less or No pips for u if ur a roamer, soloer, havoc grp, scout, or not accepted into a squad for any number of unreasonable and occasionally discriminatory reasons.

So now, what do we have? Casual pver’s who came into WvW expecting to have fun and get some rewards in a reasonable amount of time. What did they get? Grief and restrictive or non-existent play and chiding abuse for being new or something less than the veterans (of which I am one).

So what’s the end result? Pver’s left. O good. Back to same old dreary grind with same old ppl who do the same old thing in the same old paramilitary way to the same old effect. No ques in less than a week. No super fun active zerg play.

GJ everyone!

Seera.5916:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

So, what? Deaf ppl cant run in squads for whom TS is “crucial?” Why? Will I never get to play the “crucial” battles. I react the same running alongside it solo, and its the same net effect to the squad. In squad w/o TS = out of squad w/o TS. Same effect, same play. Being in TS w/ HEARING is arguably better than being w/o TS (tho that point is certainly arguable) – but, sry I can’t accommodate that all important request.

Tell me what I’m missing here. The squad wasn’t full. The cmdr wasn’t prevented from adding anyone. He didn’t comment on my play. He wasn’t prevented from using TS and neither was anyone else who wanted to use. The cmdr has no idea who has TS muted, and often doesn’t care from what I’m reading. I didn’t ask for typemands. I didn’t ask for anything. I didn’t cause the zerg to lose. In fact, when I joined back in w/ a smaller squad after some ppl were nice to me, we did substantially BETTER and won much faster/more aggressively. So I just don’t get it. What is it exactly that has your back up so much? What did I do wrong? Will I ever be good enuf to play?

Because it’s the commander’s call at how strict he wants to be with his rules. If the commander wants to play by follow all the rules no matter how full the squad is, then that’s his right. He does not have to wait for the squad to be full to kick those who aren’t following the requirements for the squad. And it’s not discriminatory or unsportsmanlike or any other such negative word you wish to use to do so.

Because the commander has to manage all of the members of the squad and remembering who is and who is not on TS when the squad is full and things are heating up may not be something the commander wants to do. So when taking over the squad, he dealt with clearing out those who were not filling the requirements to be in his squad. And that’s his right to do so. Remember all of the things that the commander has to do that was posted earlier in this thread? Remember who is and who is not on TS and for what reasons on top of everything else is above and beyond the call of duty for any commander. And should not be expected.

And maybe why the smaller group was doing better with you in it because they weren’t being drowned out in chat by someone going off for hours on end on one small incident. But that’s just one possible reason. Could also just be coincidence.

O please. It is precisely unsportsmanlike and certainly not the “friendly community” I keep hearing about. It was a very exclusionary behavior, which the cmdr had every “right” to do, but which I am complaining about and will continue to complain about. It was the cmdr’s call – no one disputes that. And he did regrettably do it. And I am reacting to his decision, and will continue to do so. It was quite egregious and personal in my op.

There was nothing here for the cmdr to “remember.” He asked for TS. I immediately pmed him and explained I was deaf and that I would like to stay in squad, where I had been successfully playing all day. I pmed him many times after that, quite politely and reasonably, to the point I felt humiliated in the face of his responses (and the responses of his team support) and then I began to protest after that. There was nothing here for the cmdr to managed. It was a partially full squad. I contacted him politely and explained my circumstance. I’m not sure what else ppl expect I should have done at that pt? Just gone away in silence so u can all have fun while I shut off the game? Thx for that. So fun, so friendly, so non-elitist, so professional. A good experience was had by all!

And for what exactly? Pls tell me exactly what the cmdr gained in my instance by booting me, when playing beside the zerg is the exact same thing as playing in squad w/o TS. Where was the harm? Where was the gain?

Reverence.6915:

holodoc.5748:

Reverence.6915:

Well, to be honest, if you’re following the tag, the correct thing to do is to join their teamspeak server if they’re advertising one. Otherwise, get off that particular tag and follow someone else, or put up a tag yourself.

There is no “correct” thing to do. If you are following an open tag (usually blue) then you are not obliged to do anything. TS is a courtesy on both sides, the one providing it and the one choosing to use it or not. However it’s by no means a required tool to play WvW efficiently or successfully.

I don’t frequent these forms too often anymore, but here’s a late reply

Yes, that is the correct thing to do. That person is leading their squad. They set it up how they want. If they don’t want to have someone not in teamspeak in their squad, that’s their right. If they don’t want non-TS users on their tag, that’s their right as well, especially since ANet refuses hidden/guild commander tags. You can go follow another tag, put up your own tag, or roam if you’re not happy with their rules.

Some good points being raised in this thread though

1. Disabilities

Yes. This is a huge problem. Those with disabilities should never be forced into teamspeak. I know I had a couple of people with hearing disabilities explain that to me so I knew to keep them in squad and not force them to join teamspeak. They even joined along later in advertising teamspeak. Also had a person that required hearing aids to hear, but still enjoyed being in teamspeak. Each person is different. Find a commander that is still happy to have you along.

2. Elitists in TS

Yeah… This is an issue. It’s extremely irritating to listen to. Having commanders call out random kitten and blaming random people that aren’t in their guild just feels bad to listen to. I’d leave the channel if that were the case

3. Noisy chatter

Okay, so it’s not for everyone, but TS3, for a lot of people, is a place to socialise with other people on your server. These are the people you have to play with day in and day out (server transfers aside). You’ll find a lot of times, that it will be the same people following specific commanders with a specific group every time. People will find their niche in their server and just hang around them. Each server is a huge community after all.

If you still prefer your music though, what I tend to do is to mute everyone but the commander, and have my music playing through my speakers, while TS3 audio goes through my headphones. Works a treat

---

Honestly, it’s generally better, if you’re following the tag, to join their teamspeak. If you can’t or won’t, just don’t join that tag. Such a simple solution.

So, what tag do I follow, when they’re the only game in town, and I/ve been booted, w. purchased boosters popped and a 2 hr que? O, don’t suggest I reroll and rewait, burning up boosters/food, etc. Don’t suggest I go solo, I have a zerg build and will just get picked off, hurting the server goals. Don’t suggest I run alongside the zerg, as it exactly the same thing as running with the squad w/o TS, only I get no protections so I die more (and the zerg doesn’t get my heals) so the zerg fails more (or alienates me by not rezzing, not healing, etc) and the server goals fail more often (than if I were in squad). I’m confused. Such a simple suggestion that doesn’t help.

Puck.9612:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Puck.9612:

kittening millennials……
@Eater of Peeps, buying the game gives you access to wvw, it doesn’t hire a group of people for you to play with.
You want a zerg that plays on your terms, buy a tag, start leading. No one is obligated to spend their play time, on a game they also payed for, doing kitten for you.

Cant afford a tag. Don’t want to lead. Purchase gives me access to advertised content, which includes commander led squads. No one said anyone is obligated to me. No one said ppl must do as I say when leading their squads. But I will call them out for their bad form, and I will do it as often as they do it. Maybe then, they’ll think about not being such a …… w.e.

You can’t keep complaining about being excluded from advertised content (squads) when the option to tag up yourself is available to you but you choose not to do it.

You also can’t keep acting holier than thou when you spent hours spamming team chat ruining the game experience for hundreds of people because 1 person offended you.

I don’t have 300 g. I cant be a cmdr, cant afford it – so its not a matter of choosing or not, its a matter of I’m poor in the game. Also, I don’t particularly want to lead, and admire and try to always reward cmdrs when I am in squad. Also, when there is a squad already running, w/ a cap limit on wvw population (not an unlimited pool of players or instances), how viable is it that anyone would follow me when there is already a much bigger squad running? Many times I have seen other people tag up, who not only get 1 or 2 followers at most, but they are subjected to derision by many players for no good reason. Not a particularly viable option, which I can’t afford anyway.

I have never acted holier than thou, Idk what u r talking about.

My game play was ruined as well. The cmdr could have solved everyone’s prob very easily. I would have been instantly quiet.

Zephyra.4709:

@ Eater of Peeps.9062

Sorry, this thread has really gone places since my last comment in here.

With all due respect, (I’m not going to read through every swathe of comments so I’m not sure if you already have tried TS) has the following scenario ever occurred to you that you had been in TS one day – were you ever kicked from that commander’s squad since that requirement alone is all that was requested? Putting myself in your shoes reaching that far the only issue one may have would be someone pursuing you regarding a specific question e.g; “Want stab 1 or 2?” and even then, it’d make sense for that pursuer to relay the question via typing in-game thus making your position in squad locked in.

If not I beg to probe, what harm would it be other than having a program running in the background (TS/discord etc), admittedly uselessly due to aforementioned disability(s), so, to you?

I understand your desire to play the game as advertised (not requiring TS), unfortunately I have nothing useful to suggest otherwise to improve upon that since the trend/advance in outlier programs has led players to band together via these very voice chat programs that exist and of course – it’s not feasible to revert back to the launch days of text-based gameplay “typemanders”.

I never asked for a typemander. I cannot access TS for 3 reasons, one of which is that TS can be a humiliating experience for deaf ppl. I know it is for me. TS is ok, mandatory TS is not cool.

Seera.5916:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Puck.9612:

Rashagar.8349:

Puck.9612:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Sarika.3756:

A commander is choosing to tag up. In their squad, it’s their rules. If the commander wants their squad in voice, that’s perfectly fine. You have a choice to join or not.

Not all voice comms are the same. Some are toxic, some aren’t. Please stop painting everyone with the same brush.

Play the way you want. Don’t join voice. But don’t be upset if that choice has consequences.

If you think voice doesn’t matter, then tag up and textmand. Set your own squad rules. That’s your choice, too.

If the commander wants their squad in TS, I have no choice. See the flaw in logic? I have no choice. I cannot join, and that’s what I want, and there is no reason why I shouldn’t be allowed in to a non-full squad. I can’t play the I want. I am upset. Their choices made bad consequences for me and everyone else in TC that day. I can’t tag up – I don’t have 300 gold lying around. It’s not my choice. I don’t have it. I don’t want to lead a squad anyway. So now what? I go off to the corner to play some other mode or by myself? Well, how great for me and everyone else similarly situated.

So you should be allowed to play the way you want but the commander shouldn’t be allowed to play the way he wants? That sounds pretty kittening selfish.

That’s always seemed like a particularly stupid argument when I hear it trotted out.
“I want everyone around me to play my way” and “I want to play my own way” are not the same degree of “want”.

The way the commander wants to play is with a group in voice comms so he doesn’t have to typemand. The way Eater of Peeps wants to play is to force someone that has shelled out gold for a tag, is willing to tag up for pugs and lead a zerg, to type for his benefit because he is too selfish to simply listen in voice comms.

So basically Eater of Peeps wants someone around him (the commander) to play his way. So……. selfish.

I’m not asking for typemands. The cmdr can use TS all he wants. He can communicate as quickly as he wants to those who can listen. I am not asking for typed commands – I am quite capable of following with no or very little commands. And if for some reason I die in a non-full squad w/o TS, how is that any different in end result than if I run alongside the squad w/o TS and die? It’s not. So what’s the prob w/ letting me in? It’s not like some much better player was prevented from getting in the squad (its not full). It’s not like I was playing the best I can. It’s not like I cant follow commands typed by anyone in or out of the squad. Its not like I can get on TS even if I wanted to, which I don’t cuz its humiliating. Its not like I cant follow the cmdr w/o commands. Its not like half the ppl on TS have it muted. So what gives? HOnestly, I don’t understand what all the beef/resistance is about. Is there some disadvantage the non-full squad is getting if I play in squad w/o TS that they doesn’t occur if I’m running alongside it w/o TS. Someone pls explain – this is a legitimate question, and if ppl r losing a benefit, I need to know so I can feel better and stop crying,

Because our eyes can only focus on one thing at a time.

If a commander is trying to pull off something that requires very precise timing and/or a lot of preparation, then TS is crucial. Because we can’t type and fight OR move at the same time.

Because the game has very strong anti-spam measures, commanders can’t repeat the same command, or similar commands in chat too quickly, or post commands too quickly or they’ll be prevented from posting ANYTHING due to spam control.

So, what? Deaf ppl cant run in squads for whom TS is “crucial?” Why? Will I never get to play the “crucial” battles. I react the same running alongside it solo, and its the same net effect to the squad. In squad w/o TS = out of squad w/o TS. Same effect, same play. Being in TS w/ HEARING is arguably better than being w/o TS (tho that point is certainly arguable) – but, sry I can’t accommodate that all important request.

Tell me what I’m missing here. The squad wasn’t full. The cmdr wasn’t prevented from adding anyone. He didn’t comment on my play. He wasn’t prevented from using TS and neither was anyone else who wanted to use. The cmdr has no idea who has TS muted, and often doesn’t care from what I’m reading. I didn’t ask for typemands. I didn’t ask for anything. I didn’t cause the zerg to lose. In fact, when I joined back in w/ a smaller squad after some ppl were nice to me, we did substantially BETTER and won much faster/more aggressively. So I just don’t get it. What is it exactly that has your back up so much? What did I do wrong? Will I ever be good enuf to play?

Seera.5916:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Seera.5916:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Puck.9612:

kittening millennials……
@Eater of Peeps, buying the game gives you access to wvw, it doesn’t hire a group of people for you to play with.
You want a zerg that plays on your terms, buy a tag, start leading. No one is obligated to spend their play time, on a game they also payed for, doing kitten for you.

Cant afford a tag. Don’t want to lead. Purchase gives me access to advertised content, which includes commander led squads. No one said anyone is obligated to me. No one said ppl must do as I say when leading their squads. But I will call them out for their bad form, and I will do it as often as they do it. Maybe then, they’ll think about not being such a …… w.e.

No one should have to say that people should follow the demands of a COMMANDER in a squad or be kicked. It’s something that should be instinctive. You shouldn’t have to be kicked out of squads of commanders with rules you don’t like. You should leave on your own accord

You are allowed access to commander led squads. However commanders are allowed to choose the criteria for their squads and can’t kick and invite those who break or follow the rules accordingly. There’s a kick function for a reason. That’s advertised content. You can’t say that you shouldn’t be prevented from access to advertised content and then turn around and say commanders can’t use advertised content.

I wasn’t allowed access to a commander-led squad. I was specifically prohibited from accessing it. In fact, I had been in it all day, and the new cmdr booted me. I did not break any “rules.” I followed the squad all day. I followed commands all day. I thought the kick function was added to wvw squads because cmdrs complained about afkers. I wasn’t afk. I wasn’t breaking a single rule. I wasn’t doing anything wrong. I was being singled out, humiliated, prejudiced against, and denied access to advertised content. The kick function btw is not advertised content. Show me where that feature is advertised when purchasing, because honestly, nearly every single complaint I’ve ever had about this game (which is hardly any) is because of the community abusing features, not using them as intended. Had I seen advertised that a commander is allowed to boot for capricious, abusive or prejudicial reasons, I would have given serious thought to not purchasing.

Please show me where commander led squads were advertised. Post a direct link to a blog post or something else by ANet that advertises that.

You aren’t able to join a SUBSET of commander led squads. Not all. So even if you do find something, you’re still not being lied to. “Access to commander led squads” is not “Access to all commander led squads” no matter how much anyone wants it to be that way.

Commanders have the right to kick anyone they want for whatever reason they want. The smart ones will have logical reasons behind it. Requiring TS is a logical reason and whether or not a commander wants to add the responsibility of remembering who is and who is not deaf of the members in the squad that aren’t in TS on top of the other duties the commander has to deal with is up to the commander. Or how strict the commander wants to be on enforcing their rules.

The ones who are rude and discriminatory will soon find themselves without a following because people gossip and word gets around. Or at least they won’t have the good players following them.

So stop wasting your energy getting angry and upset and going off on anyone you think falls into that latter category. It’s not worth it. Report those that you feel break the game’s rules and let ANet decide. It’s just an online game; you aren’t going to change their opinion or their behavior. Or anyone else’s.

I don’t have to do your homework for you. You look it up.

Aren’t I glad that its just a SUBSET right now! Lied to? I don’t understand. I don’t agree with your assessment about commander led squads.

I’m getting tired of agreeing with posters that Cmdrs have the right to boot ppl. I am complaining that the choice in this case to do so was unfair, prejudicial, punitive and without good cause, as every single reason justifying mandatory TS requirements that I have seen posted does not make sense or is logically flawed/advantages not as depicted.

Please stop stamping your feet. IT doesn’t help. Blocking me from accessing a non-full squad for the reason that I cannot use TS is not a valid reason for a kick. Its not good sportsmanlike behavior. It needs to be pointed out, so others are not humiliated or discriminated against or disappointed or wasting gold/boosters bought on the trading post. This isn’t about having a logical reason. Its about having a reason that isn’t solely predicated upon being unsportstmanlike or exclusionary with no good cause or net improved effect (as so many erroneously keep claiming).

To Ragnar’s post above where he stated:

“I never said TS will help a deaf person play better.

Its like an employer putting a requirement in a job-spec for “must have a masters degree in Finance”. Now you apply, and say “oh, yeah, I can’t get a masters degree because I have to use all my time and energy caring for my sick mum and infant sister”. Is the employer going to say “oh, fair enough, you’ve got a reason”? No. They’re going to say “thats unfortunate, but, this job still requires a masters”. Just because you have a reason, doesn’t mean you get to by-pass the requirements.

Or someone who can’t walk applying to be a firefighter. Sorry, but the requirement is for you to be able to haul around hoses, cut through wreckage and carry people down ladders. The fact that you have a perfectly valid reason for not being able to do those things is irrelevant, the requirement is still the requirement.

I’m not saying that a deaf person will play better for being on TS. I’m saying anyone, whether they’re deaf or not, who is not on TS will play at a lower level than someone who is.

Let me put this into numbers for you. Player on TS = 10, Player not on TS = 5. The requirement to join is “you must be a 10”. The fact that you can’t use TS for whatever reason, doesn’t stop you being a 5. You’re not on TS, so you’re still a 5. You don’t meet the requirement.

Now please try not to _"put analytical thinking aside and just spew out preprogramed phrases."

My Response:

Where to start?

1. Its not irrelevant – its the whole issue.

2. The entire argument in this post is that cuz I’m deaf, I don’t play as well as everyone in the squad on TS. I disagree. I am a better player than many in the squad that day, and TS won’t make me any better of a player.

3. No one has ever criticized my play. I played all day with the same ppl, and not once did anyone type anything to me to improve my play or criticize my play. The cmdr did not criticize my play, and I have run in zerg with him before. After 5 yrs of being a dedicated WvWer and 14 yrs on GW, I think I get how to play WvW and follow a cmdr. I don’t need TS and it won’t help me or the squad.

4. Banishing me to run beside the zerg w/o protections is the exact same thing as me running in the squad w/o TS (esp when its not full), only I die more, which hurts the zerg and hurts the server and hurts the end goal.

5. It’s not like a job search. I already have the job, I already purchased the game and am playing it. Its more like, oh, you (insert pink haired person, etc) pls stop working alongside all your fellow employees. Your new office is down in the basement alone. Some "nice people’ might come visit u once in awhile and let u come back upstairs to work alongside (but not with! not ever!) your better performing workmates. I bet most would not be ok with that.

6. Really? Anyone on TS is a better player than anyone who is not on TS? Hmm, bet there will be some resistance to that. I think its laughable especially since half the ppl on TS r not listening.

7. Player on TS = 10? Player not on TS = 5? Isn’t this elitist/superior? So I was booted because someone somewhere thought I’m not good enuf to be in squad, tho I can run alongside it and do the exact same thing and that’s ok? No one criticized my play. FYI, I don’t need TS to coordinate my actions w/ yours. Its just not that tough of a game.

10. Who decided those on TS are “10s” while those not on TS are “5s?” And that “5s” can never be as good as, or reach the levels of “10s,” so therefore, they should not be allowed to play. Ever. And for those of us who TS can’t help, cuz we can’t hear, we can just go away.

Yah, ur not saying TS will make a deaf person play better. U seem to be saying all those on TS r better players than any deaf person anywhere (cuz they’re not on TS and therefore they’re 5s and can never be 10s cuz they can never get on TS) and therefore, the deaf person will never, can never be good enuf to ever play w. a squad.

Did I misunderstand something?

PabbyGaul.9682:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Rashagar.8349:

Puck.9612:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Sarika.3756:

A commander is choosing to tag up. In their squad, it’s their rules. If the commander wants their squad in voice, that’s perfectly fine. You have a choice to join or not.

Not all voice comms are the same. Some are toxic, some aren’t. Please stop painting everyone with the same brush.

Play the way you want. Don’t join voice. But don’t be upset if that choice has consequences.

If you think voice doesn’t matter, then tag up and textmand. Set your own squad rules. That’s your choice, too.

If the commander wants their squad in TS, I have no choice. See the flaw in your logic? I have no choice. I cannot join, and that’s what I want, and their is no reason why I shouldn’t be allowed in to a non-full squad. I can’t play the I want. I am upset. Their rude choices made bad consequences for me and everyone else in TC that day. I can’t tag up – I don’t have 300 gold lying around. It’s not my choice. I don’t have it. I don’t want to lead a squad anyway. So now what? I go off to the corner to play some other mode or by myself? Well, how great for me and everyone else similarly situated.

So you should be allowed to play the way you want but the commander shouldn’t be allowed to play the way he wants? That sounds pretty kittening selfish.

That’s always seemed like a particularly stupid argument when I hear it trotted out.
“I want everyone around me to play my way” and “I want to play my own way” are not the same degree of “want”.

I want to play the game the way it was designed and intended to be played by those who purchased the game. I don’t want to be excluded from advertised content because some elitist joker decides he wants to ban people prejudicially (especially when the squad is not full). I don’t want anyone to play my way. I want to play the game in my own way. I want you to play the game in your own way. But I want to able to play what you play, especially when there is zero sum gain/no negative effect if I am in a not-full squad w/o TS or I am running solo beside it w/o TS – I do the same thing either way but get no protections, which makes me die, which ends the heals, which hurts the zerg, which fails the server goal. Makes no sense.

Also, the commander is the one who wants everyone around him to “play his own way (while he plays his own way as well).” I’m afraid its the same degree of want (coercion maybe better?), and its one-sided from the commander. As far as I’m concerned, the commander can play any way he wants, as long as it doesn’t infringe on my right to play too. And if it does, which apparently Anet condones, I will keep calling this rude and demeaning behavior out each time I am subjected to it because its bad form without regard for the feelings of others.

You are infringing on my right to play well.

And I am protesting decisions that infringe on my right to play at all.

Iris Ng.9845:

Rashagar.8349:

Puck.9612:

Rashagar.8349:

Puck.9612:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Sarika.3756:

A commander is choosing to tag up. In their squad, it’s their rules. If the commander wants their squad in voice, that’s perfectly fine. You have a choice to join or not.

Not all voice comms are the same. Some are toxic, some aren’t. Please stop painting everyone with the same brush.

Play the way you want. Don’t join voice. But don’t be upset if that choice has consequences.

If you think voice doesn’t matter, then tag up and textmand. Set your own squad rules. That’s your choice, too.

If the commander wants their squad in TS, I have no choice. See the flaw in your logic? I have no choice. I cannot join, and that’s what I want, and their is no reason why I shouldn’t be allowed in to a non-full squad. I can’t play the I want. I am upset. Their rude choices made bad consequences for me and everyone else in TC that day. I can’t tag up – I don’t have 300 gold lying around. It’s not my choice. I don’t have it. I don’t want to lead a squad anyway. So now what? I go off to the corner to play some other mode or by myself? Well, how great for me and everyone else similarly situated.

So you should be allowed to play the way you want but the commander shouldn’t be allowed to play the way he wants? That sounds pretty kittening selfish.

That’s always seemed like a particularly stupid argument when I hear it trotted out.
“I want everyone around me to play my way” and “I want to play my own way” are not the same degree of “want”.

The way the commander wants to play is with a group in voice comms so he doesn’t have to typemand. The way Eater of Peeps wants to play is to force someone that has shelled out gold for a tag, is willing to tag up for pugs and lead a zerg, to type for his benefit because he is too selfish to simply listen in voice comms.

So basically Eater of Peeps wants someone around him (the commander) to play his way. So……. selfish.

I wasn’t making the comment in reference to anything Eater of Peeps has said, to be honest I haven’t read much of it. So I wouldn’t claim to know what he wants. And from what you’ve said of it, I don’t really believe that you have much of a better idea of what he wants than I have.

I was just saying that the argument you attempted to use to justify whatever your stance was has been trotted out a lot to attempt to justify a whole host of stances, and it’s always struck me as a particularly stupid one, for the reason given above.

I was there when it happened. I’m on the same server as Eater of Peeps but playing on a different map with a havoc tag. It started with this person called out a well-known and reasonable commander on Team chat as a “pos” (piece of kitten) and threw tantrum about he got refused access to a pug squad because no TS. Apparently the pug squad in BG was having a bad time against a well oiled Maguuma squad and multiple loss usually resulted in commander reorganizing his group and demanding TS. So on the Team chat battle, his lieutenants have politely explained multiple times their TS requirement and even if Eater of Peeps couldn’t hear (as he claims his disability), his presence on TS will be accounted for an immediate invite, but Nooooope… Eater of Peeps refused and took it personally as an insults. He even went as far as calling out others who agreed with the reasonable request as “pos”. At this point, it became too cringy. This guy carried on his mud slinging, buzz word throwing, kid tantrum for a freaking 3 hours and clogging all the important calls across the map on team chat. Many times, he was asked to move on and bring his issues elsewhere; he brought out the victim card and accused us for bullying. I think many believe him a troll and blocked him, or at least that’s what my squad did.

If you ask for my opinion, he’s just a painfully new Mez.

Edit: oh right, the reason he raged about being exclusive from the squad even though he can follow the tag perfectly fine was about tagging credit, LOL.

I’m not a Mesmer – w/e. I guess people should never protest unfairness or baseless, prejudicial behavior.

I can follow a tag perfectly well. I do it all the time. I did it all that day w/o complaint or written suggestions of help from anyone. I complained about not receiving the protections, buffs, heals, and benefits/rewards of running with the squad. Why shouldn’t I? Why are you entitled to all of those protections and benefits, but I am not? Elitist much? I paid my money, just like you. I put in my time, just like you. I play well, perhaps just like you. But I can’t access TS so I can go kitten off.

Seera.5916:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Puck.9612:

kittening millennials……
@Eater of Peeps, buying the game gives you access to wvw, it doesn’t hire a group of people for you to play with.
You want a zerg that plays on your terms, buy a tag, start leading. No one is obligated to spend their play time, on a game they also payed for, doing kitten for you.

Cant afford a tag. Don’t want to lead. Purchase gives me access to advertised content, which includes commander led squads. No one said anyone is obligated to me. No one said ppl must do as I say when leading their squads. But I will call them out for their bad form, and I will do it as often as they do it. Maybe then, they’ll think about not being such a …… w.e.

No one should have to say that people should follow the demands of a COMMANDER in a squad or be kicked. It’s something that should be instinctive. You shouldn’t have to be kicked out of squads of commanders with rules you don’t like. You should leave on your own accord

You are allowed access to commander led squads. However commanders are allowed to choose the criteria for their squads and can’t kick and invite those who break or follow the rules accordingly. There’s a kick function for a reason. That’s advertised content. You can’t say that you shouldn’t be prevented from access to advertised content and then turn around and say commanders can’t use advertised content.

I wasn’t allowed access to a commander-led squad. I was specifically prohibited from accessing it. In fact, I had been in it all day, and the new cmdr booted me. I did not break any “rules.” I followed the squad all day. I followed commands all day. I thought the kick function was added to wvw squads because cmdrs complained about afkers. I wasn’t afk. I wasn’t breaking a single rule. I wasn’t doing anything wrong. I was being singled out, humiliated, prejudiced against, and denied access to advertised content. The kick function btw is not advertised content. Show me where that feature is advertised when purchasing, because honestly, nearly every single complaint I’ve ever had about this game (which is hardly any) is because of the community abusing features, not using them as intended. Had I seen advertised that a commander is allowed to boot for capricious, abusive or prejudicial reasons, I would have given serious thought to not purchasing.

Puck.9612:

kittening millennials……
@Eater of Peeps, buying the game gives you access to wvw, it doesn’t hire a group of people for you to play with.
You want a zerg that plays on your terms, buy a tag, start leading. No one is obligated to spend their play time, on a game they also payed for, doing kitten for you.

Cant afford a tag. Don’t want to lead. Purchase gives me access to advertised content, which includes commander led squads. No one said anyone is obligated to me. No one said ppl must do as I say when leading their squads. But I will call them out for their bad form, and I will do it as often as they do it. Maybe then, they’ll think about not being such a …… w.e.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Teamspeak matters and it makes a difference. If you’re following a commander who’s asking you to use it and you’re not, expect to a) not be invited to the squad/kicked from the squad or b) put in the trash group with all the other folks not on TS or using non-meta builds.

It isn’t a personal assault if any of these things happen to you and you shouldn’t take it as such. Some people have their reasons for not using TS, others just don’t want to. You’re not forced to but you need to understand that it’s the difference between winning and losing when it comes to serious fights. You can push PUG’s without TS all day long but when it comes to organized groups, and/or groups with most in TS while yours is not, yours is a lot more likely to lose.

TS does not automatically make people play better but it does allow for instant communication which in turn means faster and more co-ordinated play. In an environment where standing in the wrong position for a quarter of a second can be the difference between life and death, verbal commands can save a lot of lives.

With all that said, you can absolutely function and contribute without it. You are not useless if you are not in TS but you are at a disadvantage. This means you need to be extra alert and depending on your own instincts to survive while also trusting the commanders decisions and trusting your group to support you.

Some people cannot use TS for a variety of reasons but that doesn’t mean they need to act entitled. If you have a child, if you don’t want to listen to people yelling on TS, etc. etc. that doesn’t mean you need to attack people for telling you to get on TS when you can’t/don’t want to. Accept that it plays an important role in higher level zerg play and learn to function and contribute without it if you choose not to use it.

This is just a game after all and if you want to play it casually then you’re free to do so. You don’t need anyone’s validation if they think you’re useless without TS. Just remember that you’re still a part of a working body in a zerg even if you don’t want to use TS. You should want to do your best so as not to be a dead weight regardless of how/what you choose to play.

My response:

1. All the other “trash groups” – but its not personal? It’s not elitist? I beg to differ. Get over yourself. Your’e not that good and I’m not that bad. I am not going to conform, just for the sake of making nice/conforming, or letting you not be annoyed, because I CANT, and I refuse to let some petty person with an elitist attitude humiliate me without extreme protest.

2. He’s not asking me to use it. He’s demanding I use it, or quit until another cmdr comes on. I CANT USE IT.

3. I am being forced to. I got endless requests of just sign in, shut up, and play. I could do that, but I won’t cuz that’s tacit approval, condoning, acceptance, and quiet acquiescence (and humiliating in my case) to a really egregious unsportsmanlike demand by a person given some leadership power. Play nice, and fair, or go home. Y doesn’t the Cmdr go sit in the corner for awhile, watching the zerg, contemplating how he hurt people’s feelings needlessly, to no better effect for the game/zerg (I played the same either way) w/ open space in his squad on a casual game that is dying precisely in part because of alienating, demoralizing tactics like this.

4. I died more out of the squad than in it. How did that help the squad/zerg/server/goal?

5. I did contribute w/o TS. I played exactly the same, which is better than most.

6. Thx for telling me I’m not useless. I feel so much better. Insensitve much?

7. I am at a disadvantage and must be extra alert? Um. Duh. I’m deaf. Kinda describes my whole life dontcha think? That’s how I play in and of squad/zerg, GW, etc.

8. I’m entitled? LOL Ur a little off the mark there bud. I’m entitled cuz I’m deaf? Or entitled cuz I got the boot? Or entitled cuz I got relegated to the place of deciding between humiliating silent play (so u can enjoy urself) or quitting or leaving/rerolling/requeing, or dying alone alot w/ a non-solo zerg build, or taking it to the ppl. I chose the latter. I think you might have the whole “entitled” thing backward. Ur entitled cuz u have access to and can use TS and thus, fit the arbitrary requirement (and according to some, are therefore, by necessity the much better player and wanted/desirable for that reason). Ur entitled cuz u got to play w. a squad, which is what u wanted to do. How lucky for u that u met the “criteria” (another insulting term for me personally), how entitled! You got to play in peace. You got to play without being punished or humiliated or attacked. You got to do w/e u did. I didn’t, yet I paid the same as you, I popped boosters (before cmdr arrived) the same as you, I popped food the same as you, I kill, use skills, heal, just like u, I run like u, jump like u, cap like u. But u get to do w/e and I can get to go kitten off. Spare me ur “elitist” talk – elitists are just using that phrase as a weapon to justify their own disgraceful, entitled behavior.

9. I can verbally call out ppl who use abusive tactics anytime I want and you cant stop me and ur admonishments for me not to do that are falling on deaf ears (no pun intended). I will protest bad behavior that is harmful to me and the game all I want.

10. Higher level zerg play? I’m sure u will get resistance to that assessment from roamers/soloers/spvpers, etc. ITS JUST NOT THAT HARD PEOPLE! WvW is way easier (even in “difficult” higher level zerg play, LOL) than spvp or raids or even fractals for the most part. Also, the best cmdrs I have ever played w/ in the course of 5 yrs on WvW have NEVER required TS or even used it (mostly because they didn’t speak Eng.)

11. As to the rest of the comments, they’re just rah rah and pretty basic. Thx for letting me play the game at all, O Great Entitled One!

[quote=6617250;Ragnar.4257:]

Sarika.3756:

There are two issues here.

One is whether or not a deaf person should be required to be in TS. Which is pretty silly, and isn’t really what anyone is saying.

The other is whether or not a commander has the right to choose the rules for their own squad.

IT wasn’t just silly, it was demeaning and humiliating and embarrassing. U think I like having to say I’m deaf. U think I like being in here? WTF U think I should (I’m not gonna) put myself thru the added humiliation of logging into an app for ppl who can hear. NO THX.

The Cmdr has the rt. kitten No one is disputing that. I am disputing that he is using that rt in a really gross, discriminatory, prejudicial way that’s harmful to ppl, the game, and all who come here/play GW2 when it happens, and those other unfortunate few who get booted for w.e reason as well.

Should a Cmdr have these rts? I personally think no – but ultimately, that’s Anet’s decision. As of now, they appear to condone this type of bs. But that’s my op. U can disagree w/ that. But the Cmdr, just because he has rights, shouldn’t be supported for using those rts to abuse ppl or be discriminatory or be cruel. I mean, really, ur on the side of the guy that kicked a deaf person off to the corner to cry and wait 3 hrs (as some say) for a “nicer” more humane cmdr to come on? Y not go tell him to not be so mean and elitist. O wait, u obviously support that above all else. Never mind.

HazyDaisy.4107:

The hijacked thread 101.

I’m sorry but I stopped reading some posts, because at times it seems the poster is for TS and others it seems they are against it, it was hard to keep up.

TS is actually a really simple issue. If you don’t want to or can’t join TS then don’t. If the squad rules are you be on TS, then find another squad if you don’t want to or can’t comply. If you still have issue then find another server.

There was no other squad. The squad was not full. I ran alongside it, to the exact same effect as if I had been in squad, doing the exact same things, only without rank up, benefits, protections or help, yet I gave my heals/kills/skills/etc. Switching to another server doesn’t fix it, as many cmdrs do this, and switching costs real life money which I don’t have.

To: Seera.5916:

Your’e right! All protest/complaint should be silenced! I should take my boot graciously, so everyone else can play comfortably.

A cmdr has the right to be unreasonably mean. Then, I can either silently sulk in a corner, my day ruined, or speak out, asking others to not support this type of elitist play that precludes people unreasonably. I chose the latter. Why should cmdrs/players cite my behavior as undesirable? Because theyr’e annoyed? I was annoyed. Everyone should be annoyed. This type of behavior should not be tolerated by anyone on a friendly, casual game. Its an excuse to engage in bullying/prejudice.

Yes, I’m vocal. I used forums/TC to state my op to make ppl aware of the egregious end effect (being booted as well as prejudicial bullying nature of the boot) of the cmdr’s intractable decision. It happened again last nite, btw, and its not 1st time I’ve been a recipient of this behavior from cmdrs in WvW. If more cmdrs want to block a silent good player from the entire WvW cmdr-led squad experience of game play (something I’m sure Anet doesn’t want), then so be it. If I am disliked for calling out another player’s poor decision while in a leadership role, so be it.

Let’s be clear:

I was polite and gracious, at 1st, with this cmdr and his support players. They name called 1st, which does in fact excuse any “name calling” I did back. If I lost your respect and others’ respect because I mildly responded to being told to go kill myself and called every disgusting name in the book via TC/pms, so be it. I never swore, and rarely responded to really degrading commentary slung at me (why? because I protested abusive bullying behavior followed by grossly abusive language?). Yea, blame it on the guy who speaks up and no blame for the mean/elitist cmdr. Ok, I guess, since u didn’t condemn any degrading comments to me on TC, or cmdr’s gross conduct or support offered him for his arrogant actions.

I’ve never looked to be a victim. I’ve not portrayed myself as a victim. In fact, in your post, u object to my behavior because I was not a victim. You don’t like that I was vocal, and according to u, “name calling,” both of which I would characterize, if true, as aggressive behavior, and hardly the response of a victim. I don’t care if I’ve lost your sympathy – I wasn’t looking for it in the 1st place.

I’m here/on TC to make people aware that while they’re running with a cmdr, having fun, ranking up, getting protections and active fun zerg play, others have been kicked to curb, told to go away/stand in a corner to wait to get picked off, or told to play pve (cuz we who protest are all pvers) or different game, or to reroll and wait in que to play solo/havoc. I don’t like those options.

I won’t go away or never complain/bother anyone ever, because I love this game, and behaviors like this are unacceptable and ruin the game and make ppl silently leave the game in frustration/humiliation. It should not be condoned by anyone. You should rethink chastising the complainer and focus more on the initial activity prompting the complaint. I think in the balance, most players/cmdrs will be able to kitten the more egregious behavior and help call it out.

I would really appreciate it if ppl could stop erroneously pointing out how a cmdr has the “right” to do whatever he does. I have never disputed this. I agree, he does.

That doesn’t make it fair, kind, sportsmanlike or acceptable. That’s my complaint. He has the right. How he exercises that right should be scrutinized by all and called out by those who think its not nice to discriminate against disabled people or people rolling certain classes or w/e arbitrary bs is offered as plausible justification for bad behavior. Its gross behavior. I’ll say that every time a “commander has rights” supporter tells me my behavior is in question (ok if it is -not really the issue here is it?) when that avoids the very complaint prompting everything- namely, cmdr’s unjustified, unprovoked, prejudicial and punitive action against me and others.

Pls don’t lecture me on being gracious. I was gracious to the point of it being demeaning/humiliating. Then I fought back. Now you tell me to be a doormat? No thx. If that’s what you need from me to support my criticism against this bad behavior, and you can’t find within yourself a justifiable reason to step back and examine the consequences of bad behavior and your intrinsic support of it (and condemnation of complainers) then I don’t really want, and will never expect, your support.

If you need to block me to conduct business or maintain a non-scary safe space in-game, knock yourself out. If words annoy you, how much more annoyed will u be when it happens to u, when actions are put behind words (like what happened to me). You’re out – now stay out. Do you think that would feel good to u? Or to anyone? What about if the reason given is not arbitrary/harmless like u don’t have “pink neon hair,” but is instead actually harmful, discriminatory and abusive? At what point do u get involved and say that’s too far and shouldn’t be tolerated. And yet, its not only behavior that’s tolerated, its supported vehemently and nastily.

O g, I wish I could learn to run in a smaller grp, and learn to like it! If only I could be content/silent in my new role as the banished 1 for ….. o, that’s right, being disabled (oops, sry “not meeting the criteria” for inclusion) or outspoken. Much better to support the guy engaging in elitist behavior, cuz yah, um, he not only has the right to be a mean person without feelings/regard for others, he should be loved, honored, followed and protected by all (at least he’s not annoying!).

Ragnar.4257:

Phantom.8130:

Guys. The player is DEAF. They can’t hear what you’re saying in TS. TS will do NOTHING for them. Stop behaving like brainwashed cultists.

That is irrelevant.

The commander wants a squad which operates with the level of co-ordination offered by TS. The commander is under no obligation to run a squad for you, and may operate his/her squad however they see best.

The specific reason why someone may not be able to use TS does not alter this.

I may sympathize with those reasons, but sympathy =/= obligation.

How can you possibly think that another player must do something for you, whether they want to or not?

I agree. The commander is under no obligation to act like a human being. He can be classless, baseless, unforgiving, crude, w/e. However, he shouldn’t be punitive and he shouldn’t be abusive or prejudicial towards others. Its not nice. Its not good leadership or good gamesmanship. This is supposed to be a great community. This type of behavior is grossly demoralizing, humiliating, punitive and arbitrary. It shouldn’t be encouraged by anyone. If there were more than one commander-led-squad on that day then, I would understand it. Or if the squad had been full, and he wanted to get the “best” grouping out of the more than available player base. But this was a partially full squad on a prime play day with no other cmdrs/squads in EB. The exclusion resulted in a worse net effect for the squad/server than had I stayed. So WTF. The claimed reasons for the exclusion are BS. It was personal and punitive. And I don’t know why, unless there are just some players who don’t like me and encouraged the cmdr to boot me.

Also, I do agree with you. The commander can do as he pleases. In fact, he did do as he pleased. He excluded me from running with the only partially full commander-led squad in EB for a long time while I had boosters running and was ready to continue to play. That is his prerogative. Apparently Anet condones it. It seems very unprofessional, very unsportsmanlike, very unkind, and frankly non-sensical and elitists. He can do it. He did do it. I will defend his right to be a jerk all day long. He can punish me (for what?) and be an exclusionary person. But that doesn’t mean I won’t call him out for it. It doesn’t mean I won’t make everyone aware of how outrageous I think this type of behavior is under these conditions. I will do what I want, just as he did and will continue to do as he wants. I do not say he MUST do as I say. I say it is disgraceful that he does what he does. And he is not the first, alone, or the only.

Responding To:

“I was there when it happened. I’m on the same server as Eater of Peeps but playing on a different map with a havoc tag. It started with this person called out a well-known and reasonable commander on Team chat as a “pos” (piece of kitten) and threw tantrum about he got refused access to a pug squad because no TS. Apparently the pug squad in BG was having a bad time against a well oiled Maguuma squad and multiple loss usually resulted in commander reorganizing his group and demanding TS. So on the Team chat battle, his lieutenants have politely explained multiple times their TS requirement and even if Eater of Peeps couldn’t hear (as he claims his disability), his presence on TS will be accounted for an immediate invite, but Nooooope… Eater of Peeps refused and took it personally as an insults. He even went as far as calling out others who agreed with the reasonable request as “pos”. At this point, it became too cringy. This guy carried on his mud slinging, buzz word throwing, kid tantrum for a freaking 3 hours and clogging all the important calls across the map on team chat. Many times, he was asked to move on and bring his issues elsewhere; he brought out the victim card and accused us for bullying. I think many believe him a troll and blocked him, or at least that’s what my squad did.

If you ask for my opinion, he’s just a painfully new Mez.

Edit: oh right, the reason he raged about being exclusive from the squad even though he can follow the tag perfectly fine was about tagging credit, LOL."

You were there but not there? Obviously, you were not there as your post is replete with untruths and mischaracterization.

It didn’t start with my calling out anything. It started with the commander booting me, refusing to listen, and commanding the same squad I had been in all day which was nowhere near full.

I have run with this cmdr before so I am familiar with his “reputation.” Not all agree with your opinion, but my beef is not with his ability or your personal opinion as to his merits, it has to do with the decision he made to be not nice and exclusionary. It was very mean, and quite personal until I decided to make it public. You denigrate me for that, but have nothing but respect and support for the behavior this cmdr showed when he had the ability to use his leadership power/control fairly and not prejudicially, especially when the squad wasn’t full?

I did not call cmdr swear words. I did throw a verbal rant on TC because I was quite upset. I wanted to play and couldn’t. The circumstances were unwarranted and humiliating. The choice to boot me did not result in the thing the cmdr wanted as banishing me to the zerg hinterlands results in the exact same thing as if I had been in the squad w/o TS (only w/o protections I die more, so in effect, its actually a worse result than if he had just let me stay, like I had been all day). It’s gross behavior, unreasonable, rude and I took it quite personally. It was humiliating for me to think about turning on TS as a pointless, humiliating exercise in futility. Kinda rubs my nose in it, don’t you think?

You are completely wrong about your characterization of events. BG was winning before this commander came on. We had been winning pretty much all day in EB. The preceding commander tagged down cuz he was tired. That’s all. Then the new one comes in, and its insta boot for me when he hears I cant TS – for no good reason. He did not criticize my game play. He never criticized it before this day either, tho I have run with him in zergs before. If he would like to offer written advice as to what he would like to see from me personally, he can certainly do that, and I will respond. BTW, we had been a well-oiled machine all day. I wasn’t on TS then and I was in the same squad all day .

I was told get on TS or ur out. I was booted. I have multiple reasons for not having access to TS, not the least of which is that I am deaf (and there are 3 other reasons as well). I refused politely. I asked politely multiple times to get invited back. I gave legitimate, good, unavoidable reasons. I was blocked/kicked to the curb. I took it quite personally.

I’m not “Claiming” I have a disability. Shame on you. But, even if I were, which I am not, what in the world difference would that make? Another insensitive, mean suggestion. That day was full of that kind of comment, and much, much worse from the commander’s supporters and others. Why not claim I murder babies too?

I call people “POS” when they are being extremely abusive towards me first. You conveniently left that part out. I responded to their namecalling and abusive behavior towards me. I complained in chat, and didn’t swear. I got responses that were like Lord of the Flies – attack the weak one. Nice bullying, gang mentality, but w/e. I fought back. So what. Nobody asked you, or people like you, to throw the first punch. You could have been mature and seen that I was quite upset and frustrated and mad, and responded kindly and perhaps pm’ed the commander and pressured him for his behavior, instead of attacking me for complaining in TC.

I carried on for as long as the cmdr precluded me from joining. I tried to join thruout his entire time as cmdr, to no avail. He could have instantly stopped my rant by inviting me, especially since he never once had a full squad. I would have shut up immediately. But no, his choice to play, my choice to react, and react I will until he stops, because his behavior is rude and his requirements don’t even accomplish what he insists they do.

I was bullied that day. I didn’t pull the victim card, tho I was a victim and I did complain. I was also a victim of further bullying, to which I reacted as well. You had choices too you know. As for your squad blocking me, to each his own. If you fear words, protest, change, freedoms, ok. GL w/ that.

Ragnar.4257:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

I don’t want to be excluded from advertised content because some elitist joker decides he wants to ban people prejudicially (especially when the squad is not full).

Other players are not “advertised content”, they are people.

You have no “right” to a squad. You have no “right” to a commander. The only thing you purchased with the game was the right to log in, create a character, and do these things for yourself.

A squad is just a group of players. They are under no obligation to include you in their group. What’s next? Demanding people invite you to their guild because guilds are “advertised content”?

Admittedly, Teamspeak is often not needed. There’s no need for it when roaming, scouting, PvDing or when you’re steamrolling the enemy. But when it comes to big fights, anyone who thinks they’re just as efficient without TS as with it, is simply ignorant of what a well co-ordinated group is capable of achieving. Being ignorant doesn’t make you stupid, it just means you’ve never been shown.

Be open to being shown, and you’ll discover.

I was the same when I started, it never even occurred to me that the game could even be played at a level so astronomically above what I was already doing. No, I’m not talking about loud-mouthed children shouting “BOMOMBOMBOMBOMB”, I’m talking about the difference between dropping your bomb within 2s of your team, compared to dropping your bomb within 0.2s of your team. One of these will result in the enemy popping defences and healing up, the other results in a pile of bags.

You may think you’re 100% efficient without teamspeak, but you simply haven’t considered how much more efficient you could be. If you’re happy being 50% efficient, then fine, but that doesn’t give you a magic pass to insert yourself into groups who want to strive for 100%.

“Advertised content” does refer to players. We are in agreement.

Why don’t I have a “right” to a squad? Who decided that? Why don’t I? Why do you have the “right” to exclude me from content I paid for? We’re not talking guilds doing their own things, or players playing any way they like. We’re talking exclusionary, behaviors not yielding the “results” everyone claims.

If I am in a squad w/ TS I can’t hear. I get no benefit from it. I play the same. If I am in a squad w/o TS, it is the same exact thing. I play the same. If I am booted from a squad, and forced to run solo, I do the exact same thing. I play the same. The only difference is, I get no protections or benefits.

You cannot improve my play thru TS. Sorry, but there it is. So now what? 1 squad, 1 cmdr for how many hrs they are on, and I am completely foreclosed from participating in the wvw squad/commander game mode advertised as a main feature of the game? If all commanders do this, I won’t be able to play at all in a wvw squad ever. Aren’t I glad most commanders are not exclusionary like this? Yes I am, cuz otherwise I wouldn’t get to play at all.

A squad is not just a group of players. It’s a group of players following a commander. I want to do that, and be part of it. The squad was not full. I play the same no matter what. I cant improve thru use of TS.

If only 1 cmdr is on, and the squad’s not full, what’s the justification for this punitive action. This is true also in those cases where cmdrs boot people for not having certain classes. Perhaps a little more credence if the zerg is full, but punitive if its half empty.

Guilds are not the same thing. I’m not prevented from playing content if a guild does not let me in, as there are other guilds that will take me. There were no other squads that day – no option to select another. There simply aren’t that many commanders to run with. Also, I’m pretty sure guilds cant advertise for, and not get banned for saying things like no atheists allowed, or blacks not welcome, etc., Here, I was banned, in essence, for being deaf.

I’m not arguing TS may be helpful/more efficient for most players. I don’t have access to it, so its meaningless as applied to me. TS will teach me nothing, and will not make me a better player. Sorry you don’t realize that – it should be obvious. Wanting the best squad possible is an admirable goal. However, TS does not achieve this/ensure it. Many people in TS are not listening or obeying, goofing off, AFK, alerting enemies, on trading post, wasting supplies, etc. It’s a personal attack. It’s mean-spirited. I give my best. I play my best, and I’m as good as most. I’m a dedicated quiet player. But I won’t stand by and be “steamrolled” into quiet submission when I am being subjected to humiliating treatment on a game I love.

You’re not “showing” me anything, nor do I value or respect opinions that support unsportsmanlike practices.

I am neither a new nor unaccomplished player.

I applaud groups striving for perfection. I try to play the absolute best I can play every day. I often find these cmdrs you so vociferously support do a lot of wasted action and stand around a lot – not particularly efficient – esp when boosters/food are popped. They could be much more efficient, but from my personal experience, nearly every one of em rejects and avoids/blocks/attacks any criticism of their game style/play or tactics. And again, in case you hadn’t realized, I’m deaf, and by necessity, TS cant help improve my personal game. Think about it.

Also, its 1 thing if everyone in squad is playing 100% (which they never are) and the squad is full. Then your argument might hold some sway. But this was a partial squad. So I would be running beside it anyway, only w/o protections/benefits, and dying more, thus hurting the zerg and the end goal.

Rashagar.8349:

Puck.9612:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Sarika.3756:

A commander is choosing to tag up. In their squad, it’s their rules. If the commander wants their squad in voice, that’s perfectly fine. You have a choice to join or not.

Not all voice comms are the same. Some are toxic, some aren’t. Please stop painting everyone with the same brush.

Play the way you want. Don’t join voice. But don’t be upset if that choice has consequences.

If you think voice doesn’t matter, then tag up and textmand. Set your own squad rules. That’s your choice, too.

If the commander wants their squad in TS, I have no choice. See the flaw in logic? I have no choice. I cannot join, and that’s what I want, and their is no reason why I shouldn’t be allowed in to a non-full squad. I can’t play the I want. I am upset. Their choices made bad consequences for me and everyone else in TC that day. I can’t tag up – I don’t have 300 gold lying around. It’s not my choice. I don’t have it. I don’t want to lead a squad anyway. So now what? I go off to the corner to play some other mode or by myself? Well, how great for me and everyone else similarly situated.

So you should be allowed to play the way you want but the commander shouldn’t be allowed to play the way he wants? That sounds pretty kittening selfish.

That’s always seemed like a particularly stupid argument when I hear it trotted out.
“I want everyone around me to play my way” and “I want to play my own way” are not the same degree of “want”.

I want to play the game the way it was designed and intended to be played by those who purchased the game. I don’t want to be excluded from advertised content because some cmdr decides he wants to ban people unreasonably (especially when the squad is not full). I don’t want anyone to play my way. I want to play the game in my own way. I want you to play the game in your own way. But I want to able to play what you play, especially when there is zero sum gain/no negative effect if I am in a not-full squad w/o TS or I am running solo beside it w/o TS – I do the same thing either way but get no protections, which makes me die, which ends the heals, which hurts the zerg, which fails the server goal. Makes no sense.

Also, the commander is the one who wants everyone around him to “play his own way (while he plays his own way as well).” As far as I’m concerned, the commander can play any way he wants, as long as it doesn’t punish me. And if it does, I will keep calling out this unsportsmanlike behavior each time I am subjected to it because its bad form without regard for the feelings of others.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

People still demanding that the game be made easier for them?
Some of us who’ve played since GW1 hit the streets feel the level requirements are just find. Well done anet.

Pretty sure the OP said he was beta gw 1 and 2. Lowering the level requirements for rewards does not make the game any easier. Dumb decision again anet.

PabbyGaul.9682:

Oh mighty Anet I thank thee. Thou hast starved the gluttonous insatiety of the candy questing pver in wvw through your stalwart defense of that which is unattainable by them. I feel soon they can return to their ummutable pveland to squish 5 frogs and pretend AI is the true end game. You have enriched us with their bags and we have bathed in their tears. Do not stray from the course lest these snowflakes stay and beg for wxp-train in map chat. In your name we pray… Anet.

LOL. Piece of advice – get over yourself. The person (OP) you’re complaining about has played gw 1 and 2 since beta in all forms and will kitten you all over the map. Pretty sure last time I saw him, he was standing over ur avatar corpse.

Artaz.3819:

I’m OK if ANet lowers the rank requirement if they give us Legendary armor at higher rank.

If you are grinding out the PIPs as intended, you’ll easily make the r2000 requirement in the time period. If you are afk/PIP farming, you will not.

In a year from now, this PIP system will seem “fair” honestly. And since WvW doesn’t get touched often, this is the only way to keep people active and participating for that long.

I cant grind out the pips as intended. I am booted from squads/zergs and I often scout or sometimes, yes, sometimes, the commanders run around aimlessly or stand around inordinate amounts of time burning up boosters/food/etc. and they cap or kill next to nothing, and hence my grind, which is often beyond my control, drags on interminably despite my best efforts.

Sarika.3756:

A commander is choosing to tag up. In their squad, it’s their rules. If the commander wants their squad in voice, that’s perfectly fine. You have a choice to join or not.

Not all voice comms are the same. Some are toxic, some aren’t. Please stop painting everyone with the same brush.

Play the way you want. Don’t join voice. But don’t be upset if that choice has consequences.

If you think voice doesn’t matter, then tag up and textmand. Set your own squad rules. That’s your choice, too.

If the commander wants their squad in TS, I have no choice. See the flaw in logic? I have no choice. I cannot join, and that’s what I want, and there is no reason why I shouldn’t be allowed in to a non-full squad. I can’t play the mode I want. I am upset. Their rude choices yielded bad consequences for me and everyone else in TC that day. I can’t tag up – I don’t have 300 gold lying around. It’s not my choice. I don’t have it. I don’t want to lead a squad anyway. So now what? I go off to the corner to play some other mode or by myself? Well, how great for me and everyone else similarly situated.

HazyDaisy.4107:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

HazyDaisy.4107:

In the old days, a commander would map switch to throw off an outrageous pug following that wasn’t in TS. Now a days ques make that hard to do, so what is perceived as sissiness could very well be business as usual. If you are a pug that insists on following a tag but don’t want to follow the tags rules as silly as they may seem to you, then you have 1 of 3 options.
1) Join TS then mute everyone.
2) Don’t join TS or the squad, but follow anyway at the back of the line.
3) Do your own thing.

As far as what you could expect to hear in TS, map chat and team chat is usually a good indicator of the seriousness, silliness or vulgarness you’ll encounter.

Your suggestions are incorrect and here’s why: If you join TS and mute it, what’s the point of any of it – even the requirement – its pointless, frivolous to insist people be on TS only to have them completely ignoring it in all regards. Also, following at the back of the line/zerg is the exact same thing as being in the squad and not on TS or as being on TS and muting TS – there’s no difference – as a player you’re following a commander without benefit/distraction of TS and as a zerg you’re getting the exact same experience from the player who follows or is not in TS or is in TS with it muted and as a commander there is no benefit either way because the player will make mistakes or not, flag enemies or not, expose the zerg or not, or die/kill or not regardless of TS (assuming they really want to play and are not just in there sabotaging the zerg). While TS may help some, it hurts others’ play and some people just can’t do it – why penalize people by making a third party app a meaningless requirement – especially when squads are not full and there is only one commander on a map and a que? As to the last suggestion I would say this – if I wanted to roam and kill solo, I would pve or pvp – why are you forcing me to do that on a map which is intended to be played as a zerg – a unique and very fun thing in the gaming world. I want to fight in a zerg with the squad to get the benefits and to help out – keeping me from joining a squad only makes me hate the game and the players – not a good thing for this game which I love and would like to see around another five years.

Your rebuttal is incorrect and here’s why. Points 1 and 2 are troll suggestions.

I disagree. I don’t think either point 1 or 2 were promulgated in jest or as troll suggestions. I think the person meant them, as I heard this all day the day I was booted from squad. IF the person did mean them as troll suggestions, shame on them. I am being serious about this issue as it brought me to tears the other day.

usnedward.9023:

Let me be clear lol. I am not deaf I have a certain hearing loss that does not allow me to hear at certain levels. I can use TS but volume levels need to be to high that everyone in the house would go nuts. I have tried earbuds, muffs and what have you but it is too cumbersome and NOT recommended due to volume that is needed. If no one is home I will use it but rarely is that the case and so I play without TS. If it is needed I move along as there are always others to run with and I am not going to whine out there about it as my issues doesn’t need to be in the game and I deal with it.

Some of the worst commanders people complain about actually are some of the better commanders I run with with no issue. I apologize this has taken over the OP so let’s get back to the topic. TS or other software like it need to be in game without a doubt. Not everyone will use it because they don’t want to, can’t or for whatever reason. The more in TS the less death by typing happens. Most commanders I run with I am familiar with their path and how they do things so I cope with it all by following the pin.

I always follow cmdr. Apparently, that’s not good enuf. All I can say to you is that you will one day be booted for not having TS and then you must do something else, and you cant play the way you paid for the game for.

“So a cmdr who has … squad in TS is going to communicate faster and more often than a text commander. It’s up to the person to communicate what they are capable of doing though.”

I agree. No one’s disputing TS is helpful for many, and that those who avail themselves of it are arguably helping out the squad more than those who are not on TS (highly debatable). But to exclude well playing, or poor playing eager participants from a non-full squad is elitist, unkind and serves no good purpose. Mandatory TS is unfair and doesn’t achieve the goal of making the zerg better; being in squad not on TS is the exact same thing as running beside squad alone without TS, except then neither player nor squad has maximized play for the greater good of the server/zerg (via protections of the squad). Seems stupid. Mandatory TS in partly full squad makes no sense.

“A good commander wishes the best from everyone and sometimes that is hard to achieve. "

I will try to not dish out a spiteful rant after having experienced an act of exclusion from elitist types – I will try to give them my best behavior, so they can play in peace and have fun with their part-full squad while I go off in a corner and wait to get picked off, thinking about all the bad things I did. Why am I being punished? What did I do? Cmdrs who engage in these practices do not get my respect. They often get derision, non-cooperation, and vocal response.

“Talking (or typing) to the commanders and what you can and cannot do will help the commander get an idea of what both you and they can do. They may make exceptions, or decide whether to or to not avoid certain situations knowing the community around them. There are going to be some bad people and bad commanding, but TS is not a device used to pull apart communities.”

I always follow the best I can. The cmdr is not interested in what I can do. The cmdr booted me for no TS, despite playing the same squad all day. Not a community issue, unless players who don’t like me managed to pressure the only cmdr who took over the only squad to exclude me (and others). Inexcusable, bad behavior when the squad is not full. TS didn’t pull apart the community – tactics chosen did.

“When someone who is hearing impaired comes along, simply put, people don’t know what to do with them in terms of command relay.”

What to do with me? Let me play and help out, doing the best I can.

“After all this, it’s still entirely up to the commander on how to run a squad, but do not let the cmdr’s actions prevent you from having a good time.”

Too late! My day was ruined. I was in tears. What did I do? why did I get grief, when the cmdr’s behavior elicited the rant? Because I was upset? Yah. Better I should go off to an emotionless world so everyone else can have fun without being called out for unsportsmanlike behavior.

“If you don’t want to join TS then don’t. People who are not in TS are not useless. They still matter and by just playing and having fun are still being useful in some way.”

O, g. Thx for that. I feel vindicated as a worthy player. I have some worth after all. I am not “useless.” I am still useful “in some way.” Wow.

“Going back to TS, … it can be a little frustrating when you don’t get a group, but it should not deter you from playing.”

A little frustrating? When you want to play in a not-full squad, being booted is more than frustrating – it’s humiliating, demoralizing, isolating, maddening – worse than last guy picked on a team. Having a disability I fully understand what it is to get picked on, but to endorse and rationalize this behavior with reasonable articulateness doesn’t make it any less harsh.

“When I first started to WvW way back whenever I had no idea what was going on because I didn’t know TS was being used, but I followed commanders whether they wanted me there or not. I asked questions about what to do and generally had a good time. "

When I started beta WvW and ever since, no one used TS and we all did fine – we won tournaments (2 full zergs vs. our zerg in our keep) and no TS cept a few players. I understand TS is helpful – but it should never be an exclusionary tool – esp when banishing a player to run beside a non-full squad w/o benefit of protections is inane and nonsensical. Doesn’t cmdr want benefits of whatever I bring to the table? Don’t they want me to stay alive and help out? Banishing me to the zerg hinterlands to survive on my own seems counter-productive to the zerg/server goal. I’ve yet to hear good reason as to why TS should be (or if an elitist cmdr desires it) …. mandatory!

“I have known commanders for remembering names and allowing access into groups despite not being in TS because they have shown they can hold their own and can provide without a voice communication system.”

Oh wow, only wish I was good enough to prove my merit and get in a squad. If only I was a better player at WvW (or GW which I’ve been playing since gw1 beta). So wistful. I promise to try harder. Gimme a break. 10 skills, run, hit door, hit/kill players, heal, move, build, supply up, go. Hard stuff. After 5 yrs of WvW 3 x a week, I got it. No one criticized my play; it wasn’t why I was booted. I hope I find a cmdr who sees the good in me, and allows me into their not-full squad, tho I must admit, I don’t think I’ll be able to “provide” anything w/o TS.

“So say you are not in TS or squad … ; a cmdr might ask you to tank up even tho commander’s own group is a bit more glassy. It’s not that cmdrs don’t want to help.”

If a cmdr boots me, I will do nothing to help him out. Makes for bad blood. If a cmdr wants my help, and my heals/skills/kills, he needs to not exclude me from his precious non-full squad.

“They do not care that you are hearing impaired.”

Nice. It’s a casual game. It should be played by all to the best of ability within level of desire/ commitment to play. I want to play. I give my all. Yah, off to the curb I go.

“As harsh as that may sound commanders use squads and TS as a way of organization.
If there is no communication the group falls short of what it can do.”

It is harsh. You’ve just admitted a person trying to play a game that doesn’t advertise it requires TS to play certain game modes as intended gets to face a “harsh” reality of: we don’t want you, go away because your disability or inability to access TS makes you unwanted. It’s not the harshness of words that’s offensive, it’s the harshness of endorsements of non-sportsmanlike, exclusionary, elitist behavior.

“If the commander only wants certain people in the squad they can make it happen. It doesn’t matter how good or bad commander is at what they do, or how well people could perform with or without TS communication. If they don’t want you in their squad you are not getting in their squad. TS is never mandatory …”

So, don’t play with the zerg. That’s my choice? 1 commander, 1 zerg, get out it’s my squad, ur useless even tho squad’s not full. Mean Girls. Makes sense. Go play somewhere else alone, die, but please, by all means, have fun! Think I’ll pass. Game advertised I could run with a commanded squad, no TS needed! TS is mandatory.

“It is possible to survive without being in the squad or a lone party in large fights, you just have to play differently. If you don’t know your commander at all or what they want from their group then play to your own survivability. "

LOL I play to my own survivability, cuz it’s my only choice running solo next to a non-full squad. Makes sense – running alone beside a zerg is exact same thing as running in squad w/o TS – how is cmdr gaining anything?

“It comes down to whether you trust cmdr or not in such a situation, and reading your cmdr.”

If I’ve been booted, he’s not my cmdr. If he sent me off to die alone, I will never do anything he asks!

HazyDaisy.4107:

In the old days, a commander would map switch to throw off an outrageous pug following that wasn’t in TS. Now a days ques make that hard to do, so what is perceived as sissiness could very well be business as usual. If you are a pug that insists on following a tag but don’t want to follow the tags rules as silly as they may seem to you, then you have 1 of 3 options.
1) Join TS then mute everyone.
2) Don’t join TS or the squad, but follow anyway at the back of the line.
3) Do your own thing.

As far as what you could expect to hear in TS, map chat and team chat is usually a good indicator of the seriousness, silliness or vulgarness you’ll encounter.

Your suggestions are incorrect and here’s why: If you join TS and mute it, what’s the point of any of it – even the requirement – its pointless, frivolous to insist people be on TS only to have them completely ignoring it in all regards. Also, following at the back of the line/zerg is the exact same thing as being in the squad and not on TS or as being on TS and muting TS – there’s no difference – as a player you’re following a commander without benefit/distraction of TS and as a zerg you’re getting the exact same experience from the player who follows or is not in TS or is in TS with it muted and as a commander there is no benefit either way because the player will make mistakes or not, flag enemies or not, expose the zerg or not, or die/kill or not regardless of TS (assuming they really want to play and are not just in there sabotaging the zerg). While TS may help some, it hurts others’ play and some people just can’t do it – why penalize people by making a third party app a meaningless requirement – especially when squads are not full and there is only one commander on a map and a que? As to the last suggestion I would say this – if I wanted to roam and kill solo, I would pve or pvp – why are you forcing me to do that on a map which is intended to be played as a zerg – a unique and very fun thing in the gaming world. I want to fight in a zerg with the squad to get the benefits and to help out – keeping me from joining a squad only makes me hate the game and the players – not a good thing for this game which I love and would like to see around another five years.

Jayne.9251:

Learn who to support as a commander and who not to.

If they are arbitrarily kicking people out of squads, follow a commander that doesn’t.

Soon, the more inclusive commander will get the following, while the other guy will be scratching his head wondering why he’s alone.

Otherwise, get your own tag and tag up and create the environment you want on map.

You have choices. So does the commander on map. If you don’t like it, then create your own.

Sorry, but this is so disingenuous. Most times, there is only one commander on a map, especially in EB. Also, the glib suggestion of tag up yourself assumes the player isn’t new, is rich with spare gold (not really a “choice”), and wants to lead.

Jim Hunter.6821:

kdaddy.5431:

Jim Hunter.6821:

If you are following a tag and they are using TS you should join them in TS. I’d rather have a smaller organized group than have a bunch of rally bait pugs kittening up the fights.

If you aren’t on tag do whatever you want. Someone tells you to get in TS because they are to lazy to read scout reports in map chat tell them to go kitten themselves.
(Although I’ve personally been using it more while roaming because the PvE players are constantly spamming team chart with useless kitten.)

No No No,

Let me tell you. I am on CD and i believe i was there because i remember someone getting upset about the commander a right hand person saying if you are not in team speak dont talk.

I can tell you literally with 100% conviction nothing could be done. This commander ran from every zerg vs zerg fight. When the enemy zerg just jumps at you and your commander runs everytime.

1/2 the zerg is thinking we fight, 1/4 of the zerg notices that the commander turns into Usain Bolt when he/she sees a enemy and then the rest of the group is like why did no one back us up?

Seriously it was right after we attacked bay.

They set up about 6-8 catas at bay, we have a larg zerg. Those of us on catas took the walls down. The commander literally left us to attack hills and 1/2 the zerg died on the attempt at bay.

I honestly thought the commander was trolling us, they were calling for help from all maps since they have had our Bay on our Home BL for 20 HRS.

After taking hills and a tower the commander did it again when we went for the next tower on the bottom next to bay. The map when dead after this because everyone was tired of being wiped and the commander and his/her guild leaving what ever group is attacking the wall.

Think of Aladdin when Abu grabs the sword and all the guards are like “AHHHHHH he has a sword” then the boss guy goes “you idiots we all have swords” the commander was the 4 guards afraid of the monkey with the sword.

Joining them in TS would of helped nothing

That literally has nothing to do with what I said……. but to play devil’s advocate were you in TS? Maybe the commander was saying things like, “pull back so we can catch them in this choke”, and then the half of your zerg that wasn’t in TS charged into them and got destroyed forcing the commander to run.

No one is saying you have to talk in TS but if the commander is using it to drive the zerg you should hop in and listen or go do your own thing. The only good excuse for not doing so is if you are hearing impaired.

First of all, I am hearing impaired as you will see if you read my post about a similar experience. Second of all, your reasoning is faulty. If people are not in the squad, and they run alongside the zerg, they are not on TS and will make the same mistakes. So why make TS a useless elitist requirement when it changes nothing? The commander should always factor in people who are not in squad or not in TS as affecting tactics/play. I played with many a commander from KNT and other guilds back during tourneys and we never had a TS requirement, and most rarely used it, but we won nonetheless and we were a well-oiled coordinated team machine. Good players just instinctively know what to do. Bad players make mistakes and learn from them to get to be better players. But either way, forcing a mandatory TS requirement gives/grants nothing to the zerg – its just humiliating for those who want to be in the squad with a commander and buffs/protections but can’t be. While I admit TS may be helpful to some, it should not be a mandatory game requirement, and it should not be used as an exclusionary discriminatory tool ever – it may improve game play, but having A TS requirement forces people to either run alongside the zerg without protection (which, I might remind you, they are running alongside the zerg anyway if within the squad without TS – but at least then they have protection and help win zerg battles) or to play solo which leaves them more vulnerable to dying and not helping the server and also leads to disgruntled play and chat and eventual attrition from the game and withdrawal from the community – its not good for the game or brand or community interaction. Helpful is not the same thing as mandatory. Booting someone from a squad when its not full and the player is playing/trying is irrational, rude and divisive/abusive.

Wow! It’s so great to see that other people are having negative impressions of TS requirements by squad commanders! I thought I was all alone! One commander’s TS requirement made me hate this game earlier today, and I literally was in tears at the end of it. Let me tell you my experience today:

I was on BG in EB all day Sunday. I was in full ascended guard gear with Bifrost and ascended greatsword playing a balanced (no, not a glass cannon) meta type build. I played for about three hours. I saw 3 commanders come and go, all without incident. No one criticized my play or build. I did not speak at all for the whole 3 hrs. I did my job, I killed, I healed others, I carried 25 supply, I rarely died (unless tagged at rear while trying to heal/save/speed others), I wore boosters and food and maint oil, I got and gave protections and everything was fine. It was like that for me all week long. Nice play. Quiet play. Mutually helpful play w/ good commanders. I am a dedicated wvw player and have been in wvw since beta. I am also respectful and kind to everyone, unless they are rude to me first. Then I am patient, but if it persists, I fight back and can get nasty too, though I don’t like to, cuz it upsets me and I’m here to play a game I love, the way it was intended to be played, and to not bother anyone.

So, I was in the same squad in EB all day. About 3 hrs and 3 commanders in, a new commander comes on. He boots me instantly. I don’t know why. I ask for an invite please. He announces TS only. I tell him I can’t. He says no entry into the same squad I’ve been in all day. There is no other commander. There is no other zerg. There is a que. The squad wasn’t full and never got full. I guess he decided for me that I was supposed to run around solo I guess, but I had already rolled my guard, and was not set for a solo roamer build. I don’t like running havoc groups that much, and prefer to run with the zerg and commander. I cant afford to be a commander myself.

I don’t see what difference it would have made to anything or anyone if I had been in the group. Its not like I was foiling any plans – I just follow the commander, which is what people were telling me to do anyway, without a squad – so its the exact same thing – run alongside the zerg without TS – only I don’t get any protections or buffs/rewards. So, how is having me run solo and getting picked off, especially when I have a zerg build, help anyone or BG at all? If I keep dying solo, how does that help anyone or BG – it certainly doesn’t hurt anyone, except our server, and me. How does it help or hurt anyone if I am in the zerg, especially if the recommendation is to run alongside it anyway w/o TS. I’m doing the same thing either way and the zerg is getting my same help or hindrance (for those of you who I know will now say, no matter what, that I’m a pver or I died a lot or whatever stupid lies or make-believe you will say) either way. So why the elitist bs? Why humiliate me?

The game advertising says, join us in wvw where you can run with a zerg squad led by a commander and you will have fun – come have fun with us in this game mode. There is no requirement on the box that says TS is required to play one of the game modes in the manner it is intended to be played and the manner in which it is advertised. However, despite paying my money like everyone else, I didn’t get to enjoy the same game play everyone else did for more than 2 hrs of Sunday play.

The commander booted me and said I couldn’t join. I pm’ed him and told him I was deaf, and cannot use TS. This was humiliating for me to have to convey this personal information to him, and to all of you, but I am hopeful now that by doing so now, some changes will occur to the TS requirement. It didn’t matter to him at all. In any event, he told me to join TS anyway and to just “pretend” to be listening. How humiliating and demoralizing. I feel like my nose just got rubbed in my own disability even further than real life does it. People can just be really mean sometimes.

When I protested his decision in team chat and asked to be reinvited to the same squad I had been in all day, I was personally attacked in escalating fashion for being disabled, for complaining, and for calling out the rudeness of the boot. People attacked me, and attacked my disability with as much insensitivity as I’ve ever seen in a game. So much for the “kind”, fun, casual community on GW2. Hardly anyone supported me, calling me a troll and a complainer because I kept it up. However, I was very upset. I actually starting crying after about an hour’s rant in team chat against the commander who booted me and all of the gross support he received from players. I got nasty pms about my complaints and my disability, and the commander got support for elitist, discriminatory, entitled, and insensitive, mean, and unkind behavior that was unnecessary, unwarranted, and in the end, meaningless (since my solo roaming caused more damage to BG than if I had run in the zerg, and since I ran alongside it in the same manner I would have if I had been in the squad, nothing was gained or lost by the squad or commander at all – only I suffered the loss and the added humiliation. People wanted me to shut up, so they could enjoy their game play, but not one of them gave two figs that my game play experience had been ruined. I was just supposed to be booted to the curb and then shut up so they could all have fun in peace, when all I wanted was the exact same thing.

People on this game and irl seem to have lost all empathy and sensitivity and kindness. I don’t know what’s wrong with the world anymore – manners and empathy cure a lot. It would be nice if these snotty paramilitary types would get over themselves and give people a hand and a hug once in awhile.

Please no more elitist, discriminatory, demoralizing and anti-GW2 TS mandatory exclusionary requirements anymore ever!

zomgbuffalo.5276:

Why do some people feel entitled to be able to achieve or own everything? We already have been over this with Elemental Sword… Please stop.

Oh, so only those with credit cards get to feel entitled? Or those who play a little shadier than the rest of us get to feel entitled? Please, I only see that the entitled call other players who wish they had things entitled. We’re not entitled. Why are you? What did you do, exactly, that was different from what I did. I play a lot. I pop boosters. I play well. I practiced until my fingers were sore in pve, before entering the hallowed grounds of wvw. Give me a break.

[Are you trolling? What are you doing? That’s close to impossible to only get 1 per night.[/quote]

Are you kidding?

Oh my. Give me a break. I play WvW all the time. A dedicated player in all modes.

I rarely post in here, except when I see trolling remarks in response to a player’s frustration. The rank requirement of 2k is egregious. I have been playing gw2 since beta and play wvw consistently. I have played many a night where I only got one rank up level, and that’s with an average wvw nite for me of about 5- 6 hrs. How does this occur?

1. The zerg commander won’t let you into the invite only zerg, or requires ts to join the zerg. Then you’re relegated to roaming solo with a zerg build, unless you want to relog out and rewait and reroll a solo build, which is something I never do, cuz if I’m gonna play solo, I’m gonna pvp or pve. Makes more sense. Or you can run alongside the zerg solo and not get any of the benefits or protections and not get much in the way of rank up.

2. The zerg just wants bags. I have spent 5-6 hrs running with a zerg and only capped 1 or 2 towers and a few supply camps (sometimes solo) because the zerg decided its bag nite, and they play in an open field against an enemy zerg and do nothing to cap or rank up.

3. You’re the perpetual scout. We don’t like you in our zerg cuz were elitists and we don’t like it when people complain we aren’t capping or we require ts, so we would ask you if you want to join the zerg, pls go scout. I have spent many a nite scouting to help out and for what? Certainly not rank. Certainly not the friendship of the people in here who are continuing on with the usual we are elitists and we want our special armor, and we will get it first and you can’t have it and please go away cuz all you do is complain. Please. Give me a break. People complain when things are either prejudicially unfair or basically unobtainable. People should listen to people who complain and stop attacking them. If you disagree, fine, but don’t attack. Stop calling people noobs., when clearly they are not. I am so tired of being called a noob by people I have beaten in pvp many times over, rezed them in pve, and ran over them in tournaments when wvw was actually full and awesome and coordinated, all without the need for ts or paramilitary command.

Rank 2000 in wvw is extremely long and difficult to get. Its arduous to the point of being demoralizing. I play this game, all of the modes, because I love the game, all of the modes. I don’t play for rewards, ever. However, it is nice to get a reward once in awhile, and everyone loves the pretty shinies and new armor and new weapons. Don’t make them like the purple pinnacle weapons that are so awesome but which after five years of playing almost daily for many hours a day, and maxxing achievements, I am nowhere close to getting any of them. Now the same for the cool particle effect armor. Just kinda turns you off.

I get the whole prestige thing; however, many players I have seen, for example in pvp, got their rewards and prestige pieces by not playing the game as it was intended. Yet, it is always those people who yell the loudest to not give out to everyone the thing that they got/have cuz gosh golly, they earned it. Yah, right. I play this game as much as anyone. I play wvw as much as anyone (I’m sure all you haters can attest to that) and I would be willing to bet that the first people to get the particle effect armor are the ones who earned it the least. And it looks like I won’t be getting it anytime soon, as I am only in rank 863 after five years of playing on a long, regular basis. Complain about that now why don’t you?

Also, what in the world is the reason for wanting it to be 2000 rank? Who is in support of that? Why make a reward so difficult that 95% of players will give up before attaining it? I didn’t say they didn’t have skill. I said they would give up.

Finally, as an observation: I Play lazy. Super lazy. I could play well, but I no longer have incentive to do so. I see so much unfairness in this game, and so many vociferous players advocating their fierce right to support a system that rewards players who don’t play the game as intended and punish those who do. I don’t see that wvw requires much skill, or much different skill than pve and certainly not more than pvp.
Its 10 skills, running and evading/killing. Big deal. Its not a big amount of skill required. So why all the incessant boring talk about skill and pver’s. Its a casual game now. People want to have fun. Have fun, make it fun, and reward people realistically. People will do grinding, they will wait, but they will eventually give up if the rewards are too remote and the community too toxic. Please behave and try to have fun, and give us a reward once in a while. And by the way, I like to show off elitist stuff as much as the next person, but it really rankles people when the entitled few rub players noses in it. Be kind.

Kitta.3657:

Sylvyn.4750:

Maybe with increased participation, the ranks will go faster, but prior to now, my average is probably about 1 per night….I’m on the 5-year plan…:)

Are you trolling? What are you doing? That’s close to impossible to only get 1 per night.

Spurnshadow.3678:

Looking at the timing of this post and the feedback I got from others, that was probably me commanding.

First off, I had no idea that OP was talking or saying anything because I have him on my ignore list. I remember him complaining ad nausium about one thing or another and being very poisonous. So, if you felt ignored by me, it wasn’t direct, it’s something inadvertent because I got tired of your endless vitriol from a long time ago.

The most important thing for me, and I mostly only do this in EB, is knowing who I can count on. If people are in TS, I know that people are going to be following my movements. Big fights require fast movement. Any delay, even a few seconds, can mean death. Also, I can communicate where I’m going longer term. I can get immediate feedback, I can count on what supply I have in squad and know that if I need something built, the people in squad, and in TS will get it built.

EB has been full of people not playing on tag, following directions, or not wanting to join TS for one reason or another. I can’t count on those folks. Commanding EB not in TS is not enjoyable to me. If I try to fight, they mostly run away.

Heck, even if people are in TS, but consitantly off tag, not scouting, not contributing, and are people I don’t know, I’ll kick them too.

It’s also a way to try to get people into TS. There are so many new players to WvW, some don’t even know we have a community TS. It can be very enriching to the WvW experience and provide more success.

I myself don’t like being in TS sometimes. Some groups chatter endlessly. I hate that. My suggestion to those of you who feel similar to me is to put your mute button on a hot key and un-mute when you get into a fight.

In the end, it’s the commanders prerogative. I’m here to have fun, just like you. I do not exist to sacrifice my fun for you. I did not sign a contract with Anet to be inclusive to every player in my squad. Fun for me, when commanding EB, is to have a closed squad and know that I can count on those people. If you don’t like it, don’t follow, or follow with the others, and do your best. Or go to another map, or start your own squad. If you don’t want to get in TS, fine. Just don’t expect to be in my squad while on EB.

Having given up on pvp, my fav part of the game, I returned to WvW. Really been enjoying it past 3 weeks – way more fun than pvp & better than in past – devs fixed a lot of earlier problems of this mode!

I run w/ zerg as necro, cuz if I run solo, I get picked off by some roaming cleaver or havoc band. I contribute a lot to the zerg, always pushing enemy players back and melting them with well build I’ve used for years (variant of new meta necro build).

I’ve always been on BG. I don’t care about bags. I prefer to capture enemy properties and get achieves, rather than bag accumulate. I run with BG zerg to help win. I like to win and play game as intended. I think GW did a great job creating its game.

However, when I read about WvW, GW touts that players work with commander teams (this game play is unique/exciting/expected). Roaming solo in WvW amounts to nothing more than running/getting picked off endlessly (unless in a havoc group, in which case, you won’t be capping SM or keeps).

So, running with zergs is not only beneficial to the server (esp as necro), but is only viable form of play in WvW. GW touts this play form as uniquely attractive. Its the only way players can immerse in full WvW experience – running with zerg to capture enemy bases.

So, I run with commander zergs. I help. I’ve never had a commander complain about my play, play style, claim I’m not contributing/not helping BG win, derailing plans or anything.

Last nite, only one commander was on when I played. After running with the zerg team for hours, he kicked me and refused to let me rejoin. I asked if I’d done anything wrong. He said no. He wanted everyone on TS. I don’t have TS, can’t access it or listen to it for personal reasons. Yet, it helps me to run with the team, as I can read team comments and links, glean plans and follow zerg to successfully help team without TS.

I don’t understand how not having a 3rd party app makes it ok for commander to kick me from the only zerg/commander run zerg on the map.

I thought this game mode was available to all players – that we can all participate in the zerg/commander/capture enemy bases experience. If GW2 has become a TS only/team only game, why advertise it as a solo player-friendly game?

This seems deceptive. I play and bought the game solo. The game said I could play solo, but that’s not the case. I can PVE solo, but nothing else. PVP is team-based (I love new feature letting solo joiners join players immediately post match). Most teams/pvp guilds require TS. Raiding is impossible without TS.

I feel if TS/3rd party app is functionally a requirement of 90% of game experience (to raid, play PVP and WvW), why is GW2 not advertising this fact on its products, official website, wiki pages, and forums?

It’s frustrating. I want to play the game. I feel I am being discriminated or prejudiced against, and advertising has not been truthful. If I need TS to run a raid, engage in PVP or WvW, or to experience these game modes to any reasonable extent (how do I capture a keep without a zerg), why is this not stated prior to purchase?

I asked this in chat last nite – players said to play at other times with friendlier commanders. I can’t play other times. I can understand kicking cuz you don’t have a certain game requirement, but to kick cuz you don’t have access to a 3rd party app seems ridiculous and prejudicial, especially against poor or disabled people (like the deaf). I could understand if there are other options available, or other commanders/zergs, but there was only one choice – so it was get TS and get to play or get lost – go do something else, play some other time, get killed running, to try to solo cap supply camps and ogres all night.

This seems harsh, unnecessary and discriminatory. I was surprised at how nasty and rude players were. I asked why I’d been kicked, explained I can’t access TS, and asked if I was doing something wrong. I was told I was fine and done nothing wrong but commander required TS to join (after running with team for hours). People got really ugly defending commander’s decision. One said I was getting free bags. I resent this – I worked hard to win, played hard and contributed a lot. I offered to give my bags to commander or other players cuz I just wanted to help BG win.

Someone please explain how this is supposed to work. I’m confused. I want to play. I want to run with commanders/zergs as the site advertises is the exciting thing to do in WvW. I want to help win. I can figure out what they’re doing. No one accused me of leeching/afk.

Please explain why the game says you can play all these modes, but the reality is different. I’m not trying to be a troll. I’m trying to understand. Please keep rude responses to yourself – I’m looking for helpful explanations. Thanks.

Win/losses are the only thing that matter when it comes to your mmr. When your mmr is low it will match you with other low mmr players against high mmr players, and hence, right out of the gate of every single match you are already at a disadvantage. On top of that, if your mmr gets tanked for any reason, such as afkers, game throwers (for gold or friends), newbies, casuals, or cluelessness, your mmr will follow/haunt you forever. You can’t cure it. I am living proof. I have just seen the same pattern over and over and over again.

Anet could have re-set mmr at the start of the season. THey didn’t. Now you can enjoy your low mmr/loss loop this season and well into all the other seasons as well, no matter how hard you try, how much you improve, how much you whine, how much you beg to be carried, how my you play, or how much you turn into a raging jerk because the game is sooooooo frustrating for solo quers with low mmr. And now that everyone quit and the game is dead and we have 30-40 mins ques, only to lose, well, that’s a recipe for permanent quitting.

Too bad. Cuz it was once a great game and pvp used to be so fun.

I just finished a 30 min que only to lose. 22 times in this season I have been 2 pips from diamond only to go back to 10 pips from it – I see the same pattern over and over. Also, the same people get paired with me over and over and they just go afk, or do nothing except dance around in the middle of the map. What is anet thinking? I too think I have had it after 15 years of playing gw. I loved pvp, but its broken beyond repair, the community is so toxic and the players so casual and clueless that all of the fun has gone out of it for me.

I will give my gold and materials away in Lions Arch when I do leave. Pretty pathetic that someone who plays pvp as long as I do can’t get out of ruby – I would have to be a total noob moron to not be able to get out of ruby after 3 seasons and playing nearly daily at pvp for hrs a day since beta, and I’m neither stupid nor a noob.

I’ve lost hope anet will do anything. I mean a simple change like resetting mmr and they didn’t even do it at the beginning of the season. Why not? No one has even been able to give me a good reason why not, especially when it might have gone a long way to restoring the fun and competition for people. Now there’s no one left playing on my teams but newbies cuz my mmr got tanked on day 1 of seas 2 and Ive been carrying it on my back ever since.

Great game. Totally ruined by anet’s refusal to make simple changes. There’s no one even playing the game anymore – even in pve or wvw. Why o why? Soooooo sad. But disgusted too. One more week of this stuff and I’m outta here.

gosh, not only is not fun, its depressing, sad, demoralizing, and oppressive if ur not a golden child winner cuz ur so gud.

Why penalize any players ever? Random matchups would at least be funner.

paShadoWn.5723:

sPvP is frustrating to you because you are a poorly constructed pawn. Pawns of my clan get a burst of inspiration each time they fail, and redouble their efforts.

Really insulting.

I think ur all actually mean, cuz really, intentional trolling? And it’s funny?