Showing Posts For Eater of Peeps.9062:

No MMR Hell? Prove it and WIN

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

You got to diamond, you may have taken the salty road, bare foot, with a 300lbs bag on your back, but you persevered. Probably learned a thing or two about carrying two bodies to victory.

You will always climb out of MMR hell and get your max as long as you’re trying, and don’t give up.

Maybe but he shouldn’t have had to. The system is poor and we now have the math to prove it.

what math proves what…… he already said he would pay the guy who successfully challenged his math and it was challenged. You might not agree… sweet.

Not everyone should be able to cruise through the lower tiers but i carried the hell out of my teams through sapphire. If a player at my skill level can carry at those tiers…. it really makes me 100% sure its not bad MMR that is keeping people in those divisions.

I think you missed the other “thread” https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/The-nature-of-MMR-hell/page/2#post6063062 with more math in it and confuse your unique case and perception with something that has inferential value.

You have no way to compare your journey to where you are to those of others and conclude that the difference is your skill. Knowing all the variables included in the equation, it is supremely pretentious to even flirt with that idea.

There are several models that show it’s more than likely that what many call “MMR hell” exist within this particular MM model.

I didnt miss the thread. But its a model and in no way a real representation of what is actually going on as he had to make assumptions to make the model. He admitted those things.

More and more it just seems like a bunch of babies with dunning kruger.

Im sorry season 1 allowed you to grind your way into legendary and now you cant…..

If me assuming other people are having l2p issues is pretentious then so be it.

Ive been playing this game for quite a while and i know im not the most skilled player yet i was able to carry hard through sapphire.

But you are making assumptions about me and my road through the divisions as well… i fail to see any difference other than your self serving opinions.

The models yield a lot more supportive objective evidences than your anecdotes when the time come to conclude on the topic. Brushing aside all that you do not like to keep your anecdotes and conclude it’s mostly a l2p issue while having no clue about others nor any way to compare their journey to yours is most definitely pretentious.

Beside, in the light of these models an the fact you are 1/5 of an ever changing team, I think the ppl thinking they are responsible for more than they factually can be in the outcome of these matches are the ones behaving like babies with Dunning Kruger issues. Maybe some ppl need to stop believing their own hype and just enjoy their good fortune.

Oh, and what assumptions did I made about you and your road? I said you had no way to compare to others and that is not an assumption. It is a fact.

I’m not believing my own hype and if you think 3 years of pvp experience talking is worthless than I would say the same from someone who has only been pvping for a year is less than worthless.

I’ve admitted I’m not an elite player yet I’m able to carry at lower levels.

The models being created are not objective, everyone making them is looking to further their own agenda…. wouldn’t call that being objective and you aren’t being objective either.

My anecdotes are just as viable as all these mmr assumptions. Because neither of them are end all beat all.

Ive been pvping more than 14 yrs on gw (my primary thing to do on both games) and since beta on both. I’m hardly a noob or a newbie to gw pvp. I didn’t grind to my 54% win loss ratio last season (began seas 2 at this level) any more than u did. I have had a much easier time going thru ruby than I ever did thru emerald. And btw, it was an absolutely a horrible, demoralizing experience being stuck solo q in emerald w. players who were brand new or clueless or vanilla against, many times, premades synced on ts quickly on their way to legend at my expense.

I will say this to u. If this system proves I was stuck in emerald, cuz I suck cuz my losses only begat me more losses (losers are paired with losers against winners), ankitten ow in ruby cuz I did nothing but grind, and I need to face reality that I am not as good a player as I thought I was, then I would say that the same system should make you realize that your wins got you more wins (winners are paired with winners against losers) and your easy short grind to wherever you are should make you realize that perhaps you are not as good a player as you think you are just cuz you are in an upper division with a winning train ride ticket to the top.

So um, yah w/e.

(edited by Eater of Peeps.9062)

Goodbye My Lover; Goodbye My Friend...

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

You people are all delusional. The OP is stating something that isn’t even mathematically possible unless there’s a prob w/ the coding. Basic statistical math would indicate its almost impossible to sustain 65 losses in a row unless the system is skewed.

How do all of you explain that I had a 100+ losing game streak and got stuck at emerald tier 1 for 3 weeks, and tanked my mmr/win/loss ratio, and had to spend countless days teaching brand new players how to pvp while being pitted against pro league teams of 3 and 4 (I was solo q) on days 1 and 2 of seas 2. At that time, people told me, after years of pvping on gw, that I was in the tier/div I belonged – that I sucked, and I just needed to “get gud.”

I am now 3 pips from diamond, and have for the most part, gotten thru most of ruby w/o too much frustration. Tell me, am I where I belong now in ruby cuz of my skill, or was I stuck in emerald tier 1 w. a humongous losing streak for weeks cuz I’m really a tier 1 emerald skill level player?

Which is it, cuz it can’t be both! There’s another poster in the forums who has screen shots w/ proof he/she is both a legend player and a ruby player simultaneously. My skill alone cant explain both a rise to almost diamond (which I hope to hit before end of seas) and a huge losing streak that kept me near the bottom for weeks of very frustrating and demoralizing play.

There are many posts, including this one, which clearly show the system is designed to have losses beget losses, and wins beget wins ad infinitum. To punish losing players by stacking the deck against them is cruel. Even if we assume everyone at the bottom, or suffering a losing streak deserves it, the system penalizes them further.

It’s kinda like taking all the worst people (assuming ur all accurate), throwing them in a pit, throwing in potentially infinitely better opponents (according to all of you naysayers) and then tying anvils on the backs of the losers and telling them to fight their way out of the pit. Guess who’s gonna win? This is what people are complaining about in terms of the inherent unfairness of the coded system itself. Get a clue.

The system is coded to favor winners with more winners against winners and to pit losers with more losers against winners. Its pretty basic and pretty skewed, and it penalizes people who are losing so that they get even more demoralized. Also, how can they “get good” if they are perpetually assigned losers as teammates with anvils on their backs?

I suspect if the truth is that I must face the reality that I am not as good a player as I thought I was and I’m where I belong (emerald? or ruby? or diamond if I get there?), that each of you winners in ruby/diamond/legend may not be as good a player as you think u r. Perhaps the same skewed system that stuck me in emerald with more than 100 consecutive losses (mathematically impossible on a randomized basis) also placed u in ur higher divisions where u live the delusion that ur a better player than u really are. This would certainly explain the blowouts being experienced in ruby/dia/legend and would also explain the kittening many people are griping about as the same loss streak hits them in sap or ruby or dia or legend or wherever. Maybe its their skill and they’ve topped out – or maybe not. Maybe they don’t even deserve to be there in the first place [and I know this personally to be true in some instances, because some of the ppl posting in here I recognize and I have kicked their butts many times in pvp over the past 2 1/2 yrs (and before that in gw1)].

MMR, you killed PvP for me for good

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

You’re all missing the point. Its a team. One man, regardless of skill cannot carry a team. However, one man can sink a team. In addition, a coded system can impose penalties on players for losing.

How do you all explain that I had a 100+ losing game streak and got stuck at emerald tier 1 for 3 weeks, and tanked my mmr/win/loss ratio, and had to spend countless days teaching brand new players how to pvp while being pitted against pro league teams of 3 and 4 (I was in solo q) that blew thru the system early in seas 2. At that time, people told me, after years of pvping on gw, that I was in the tier/div I belonged.

I am now 3 pips from diamond.

Tell me, am I where I belong now in ruby cuz of my skill, or was I stuck in emerald tier 1 w. a humongous losing streak for weeks cuz I’m really a tier 1 emerald skill level player? Which is it, cuz it can’t be both. My skill alone cant explain both a rise to almost diamond (which I hope to hit before end of seas) and a huge losing streak that kept me near the bottom for weeks of very frustrating and demoralizing play.

There are many posts, including this one, which clearly show the system is designed to have losses beget losses, and wins beget wins ad infinitum. To punish losing players by stacking the deck against them is cruel.

Even if we assume that everyone at the bottom, or suffering a losing streak deserves it, the system then penalizes them further – its kinda like taking all the worst people, throwing them in a pit, throwing in potentially much better opponents (according to all of you naysayers) and then tying anvils on the backs of the losers and telling them to now fight their way out of the pit. This is what people are complaining about the inherent unfairness of the coded system itself. Get a clue. Its a coding issue. Its an extra liability that the coding has placed on losing players.

And remember, a team can lose for countless reasons, none of which may have anything to do with anyone’s skill – think dc’s, emergency afks, accepting gold to lose, deliberately losing for friends, teaching pals how to play in duos cuz u don’t care about pvping, being brand new to pvping on a free acct, facing a pro team, afkers, frozen skills/lags/stucks/glitches, teammates w/ underpowered or vanilla builds, etc. etc.

You mmr hell deniers all just wish your easy breezy rides to the top were truly indicative of your personal skill. That might be true. But it just as easily might be total bs, and like you all always say to me, maybe I’m not as good a player as I thought I was, and maybe, neither r u. Maybe ur not as good as u think u r and ur high div placement is not really indicative of ur skill (which explains ruby, diamond and legend blow outs).

(edited by Eater of Peeps.9062)

No MMR Hell? Prove it and WIN

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

i think you can just trust Anet and take their word that the system is based for skill and unworthy players wont be able to grind anymore unless they abuse MMR in some way (like many did in s1)

Really, then how do you explain that I had a 100+ losing game streak and got stuck at emerald tier 1 for 3 weeks, and tanked my mmr/win/loss ratio, and had to spend countless days teaching brand new players how to pvp against pro league teams of 3 and 4 while I was in solo q. At that time, people told me, after years of pvping on gw, that I was in the tier/div I belonged.

I am now 3 pips from diamond. Tell me, am I where I belong now in ruby cuz of my skill, or was I stuck in emerald tier 1 w. a humongous losing streak for weeks cuz I’m really a tier 1 emerald skill level player? Which is it, cuz it can’t be both, and my skill alone cant explain both a rise to almost diamond (which I hope to hit before end of seas) and a huge losing streak that kept me near the bottom for weeks of very frustrating and demoralizing play.

There are many posts, including this one, which clearly show the system is designed to have losses beget losses, and wins beget wins ad infinitum. To punish losing players by stacking the deck against them, is cruel. Even we assume everyone at the bottom, or suffering a losing streak deserves it, the system penalizes them further – its kinda like take all the worst people, throwing them in a pit, throwing in potentially infinitely better opponents (according to all of you naysayers) and then tying anvils on the backs of the losers and telling them to fight their way out of the pit. This is what people complain about the inherent unfairness of the coded system itself. Get a clue.

People offering gold to AFK

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

I was offered 20 g to lose a match. I didn’t take it. However, another player on my team about 2 mins in basically went afk, running in circles in far corner of map. Obviously, that person took the bait. I reported them both. I certainly hope Anet, at a minimum, banned the guy who offered me the gold to quit.

Legend Player Can't Make It Out Of MMR Hell

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

Pass me the account info. I’ll get it out of “mmr hell” and into legendary for you.

Sure you will. If you’re so hot, do it. You can do it all by yourself. Just make an alt account. Deliberately tank the character – get the win/loss ratio at about 47% or lower – usually takes about 100 losses – you usually need a long consecutive streak to catch the loss bus. Now start streaming. Breeze your way to legendary from there. Do it. Prove it.

Or shut up.

Sorry I upset you. Pass me your info too and I’ll get you out of emerald.

You didn’t upset me. I’m in ruby. Why on earth would I pass my acct info to u? Just pair up w/ me and get me out of ruby. Or, make an alt acct yourself, tank it, and then stream the ride up. GL!

Why would I team up with you to carry you out of ruby when the whole point is to show that getting to legendary can be done solo even with low mmr as long as you improve your game.

People need to stop making excuses and improve at the game. Coming to the forums and complaining about mmr hell is never going to help you.

I play 10 hrs a day. I spend 20 mins a day on forums. Nuff said.

Getting to legend w. mmr hell is not doable, possibly impossible. Ur talking about getting to legend solo, and getting better as u rank up. That’s not what the rest of us r talking about or complaining about. MMR hell is a losing streak that can’t be broken, until it ruins ur mmr and tanks ur win/loss ratio and then u get matched w/ more kitten players against better opposition, and u lose more, and the cycle repeats endlessly. Real fun.

U know not what u r talking about, cuz ur talking sunny oranges when the rest of us r talking bad apples.

What are you basing these assumptions about mmr on? Did you get a quote from an Anet employee saying these things, or are you just taking them off the top of your head? It seems like the ladder. MMR is hidden, nobody knows what their mmr is. Even if you lose a bunch of games in a row, it doesn’t mean you have low mmr.

I don’t know what my mmr is. All I know is I am in a losing streak that basic math would indicate is not statistically possible unless the game is skewed for me to lose. And yes, anet devs have discussed the coding and many players have provided proof of how the calcs/coding work, and have provided proof that mmr hell is real.

Me thinks u doth protest too much my friend. Me thinks u got carried, and u think ur special, or else u r a snobby pro that thinks somehow the rest of us, whose game play has been ruined on gw pvp, are jealous or not as good or that our play time doesn’t matter. I’m mad, not cuz I cant have a stupid backpack, or be a pro (don’t think I’ll ever be that good!). I’m mad because all I do all day long is play w/ ppl who don’t know how to play, and after 14yrs of pvping on gw, I think I get how to play. Its not fun. Do you understand that? For the first time in all the years Ive been playing, the experience is hell – not fun.

Also, if all I do all day is play w/ kitten players, how do u think I’m supposed to get better, if the problem really is me? Which its not.

Legend Player Can't Make It Out Of MMR Hell

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

Pass me the account info. I’ll get it out of “mmr hell” and into legendary for you.

Sure you will. If you’re so hot, do it. You can do it all by yourself. Just make an alt account. Deliberately tank the character – get the win/loss ratio at about 47% or lower – usually takes about 100 losses – you usually need a long consecutive streak to catch the loss bus. Now start streaming. Breeze your way to legendary from there. Do it. Prove it.

Or shut up.

Sorry I upset you. Pass me your info too and I’ll get you out of emerald.

You didn’t upset me. I’m in ruby. Why on earth would I pass my acct info to u? Just pair up w/ me and get me out of ruby. Or, make an alt acct yourself, tank it, and then stream the ride up. GL!

Why would I team up with you to carry you out of ruby when the whole point is to show that getting to legendary can be done solo even with low mmr as long as you improve your game.

People need to stop making excuses and improve at the game. Coming to the forums and complaining about mmr hell is never going to help you.

I’m already legend, how am i supposed to “improve at the game” on my alt ruby account when i get teammates with downs syndrome?

Played 2 matched today, on my alt account, solo capped mid, won a 2v1 at mid and also won 2 other 1v1’s while capping home and supported others at initial mid fight and won that fight as well and also helped in various team fights on different nodes… still lost because the enemy team as a whole out rotated us and my team members were doing i dunno what while i was soloing 2 ppl.

regardless of what you say I am having to play at 120% to even remotely win a game in ruby, the amount of effort is 10x that of legend games, where as in legend if i play normally like not having to do 2v1 bullkitten to turn the match around, i can win because my team mates support me.

I played 5 games on my legend account today and won all 5 games – some were close but still won.

U just need to get better at ruby, cuz rt now, in ruby, ur where u belong!

As for legendary, w/ 5 straight wins … well, idk, just play like the ruby player u r, and maybe you will lose! Get gud! Get a better build! Get a better class!

Wtf r these ppl talking about on here?

Legend Player Can't Make It Out Of MMR Hell

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

Pass me the account info. I’ll get it out of “mmr hell” and into legendary for you.

Sure you will. If you’re so hot, do it. You can do it all by yourself. Just make an alt account. Deliberately tank the character – get the win/loss ratio at about 47% or lower – usually takes about 100 losses – you usually need a long consecutive streak to catch the loss bus. Now start streaming. Breeze your way to legendary from there. Do it. Prove it.

Or shut up.

Sorry I upset you. Pass me your info too and I’ll get you out of emerald.

You didn’t upset me. I’m in ruby. Why on earth would I pass my acct info to u? Just pair up w/ me and get me out of ruby. Or, make an alt acct yourself, tank it, and then stream the ride up. GL!

Why would I team up with you to carry you out of ruby when the whole point is to show that getting to legendary can be done solo even with low mmr as long as you improve your game.

People need to stop making excuses and improve at the game. Coming to the forums and complaining about mmr hell is never going to help you.

I play 10 hrs a day. I spend 20 mins a day on forums. Nuff said.

Getting to legend w. mmr hell is not doable, possibly impossible. Ur talking about getting to legend solo, and getting better as u rank up. That’s not what the rest of us r talking about or complaining about. MMR hell is a losing streak that can’t be broken, until it ruins ur mmr and tanks ur win/loss ratio and then u get matched w/ more kitten players against better opposition, and u lose more, and the cycle repeats endlessly. Real fun.

U know not what u r talking about, cuz ur talking sunny oranges when the rest of us r talking bad apples.

Season 2 experience - the slow roll

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

How nice for u. Come play on my acct and see what its like trying to rank up.

My path to Legendary

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

I see from ur graphs that u never got caught in mmr hell. So the fact that ur win loss ratio hovered around 46% at start of season (or now) is not that material. What is material is that you, by ur own proof, never got caught in a horrible loss streak. If you caught a horrible loss streak (which I may remind u, can happen due to many circumstances having nothing to do w/ ur personal skill – including playing day 1 of seas 2 and getting trounced by pro leagues and dealing w/ teammates on free accts brand new to pvp), ur win/loss mmr ratings combined w/ ur huge loss streak would make ur ascent back up to legendary much more painful and prolonged, if not impossible.

My experience in diamond division

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

Your ranked winrate is 46% according to your API key, and you have a bazillion games. The matchup you posted is unfortunate, but I’d say you should be happy you made it as far as you did.

Based on the data id speculate that you got Legend in S1 based on volume, and are exactly the kind of player matchmaking was changed to combat.

Or else he’s a great player, who has gotten caught in the downward spiral of mmr hell, where loss begets loss, hence his win/loss ratio has tanked.

And r u saying that at the top at legendary u r all now Thrilled w/ the player base? How nice for you that u never have to encounter a kitten player. What about the rest of us? What does our game play look like ea game, ea day? O, that’s rt – u could care less. U only care about ur gameplay. Thanks a lot. Guess when the game dies and there’s no more money for esports u will rethink whether it would have been better to fight kitten players on the way up, taking it slower to the top, and then to have to occasionally play a player who had the temerity to grind it out to the top anyway (even tho their precious skill was lacking).

Gotta make sure everyone that the pros are not inconvenienced by anything. Do it at the expense of all the players … and possibly the game.

What a snob.

Legend Player Can't Make It Out Of MMR Hell

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

Here’s a tip for anyone who thinks that they’re stuck in any sort of “MMR Hell” or w/e:

Play a high mobility, high spike DPS roaming class.

Here’s why: When you play a meta team fight class, you do great in even fights and even fights slightly against your favor. However, when you have teammates making bad rotations or not supporting you, then you’re at a big disadvantage.

With a roaming class, you can adapt to bad rotations and +1 fights to turn the tide or at least decap points if you have teammates charging into outnumbered fights. You can also quickly rotate to steal beast kills and such, which is a lot easier in games with lower skilled players.

Consider the Thief, Revenant, or to a lesser extent, Mesmer class (mesmer isn’t the roamer it used to be with the old power shatter builds shifted out of the meta, but it’s still not bad).

Think of it this way: Being an expert dog trainer is great when you’re paired up with dogs, but if you’re in a room full of cats, you’ll get a lot farther following the cats and reacting to what they are actually doing than trying to teach them to do what they should be doing.

One of the classes I play routinely is meta rev. I also play meta reap and medi dh and meta ele. That’s all I play. Still stuck in mmr hell. Changing classes or skills or playing meta doesn’t help. Neither does “get gud.” Neither does pairing w/ pros (unless I can find a 4 man pro team to “carry” me at this point. You fail to realize the problem, and the extent of the prob. There is no easy fix to mmr hell.

Legend Player Can't Make It Out Of MMR Hell

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

MMR hell is no excuse for being less than ruby. You just need to get lucky and draw a good team 3-4 times in a row. I have usually 15-20 loss strikes, than i go 5-10 pips up in ruby than again 15-20 loss strikes, but that should be enough to go trough the lower divisions.

You obviously didn’t play day 1 of seas 2. If you did, you obviously caught the win gravy train.

Legend Player Can't Make It Out Of MMR Hell

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

Pass me the account info. I’ll get it out of “mmr hell” and into legendary for you.

Sure you will. If you’re so hot, do it. You can do it all by yourself. Just make an alt account. Deliberately tank the character – get the win/loss ratio at about 47% or lower – usually takes about 100 losses – you usually need a long consecutive streak to catch the loss bus. Now start streaming. Breeze your way to legendary from there. Do it. Prove it.

Or shut up.

Sorry I upset you. Pass me your info too and I’ll get you out of emerald.

You didn’t upset me. I’m in ruby. Why on earth would I pass my acct info to u? Just pair up w/ me and get me out of ruby. Or, make an alt acct yourself, tank it, and then stream the ride up. GL!

Legend Player Can't Make It Out Of MMR Hell

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

I still can’t wrap my head around the fact that people are still arguing about whether or not MMR hell exists or not. It’s ridiculously obvious to me.

Top tier players simply don’t want it to exist because if it is actually properly fixed then next season these players wont have as easy of a time.

Use common sense here: look at you teammates, do they play the same as you? Look at all these “top players” streaming, do their teammates play the same as them?

When you see some ESL player streaming from a brand new alt acc with a fresh MMR of 1 (which can be argued as above average) and they start going at it, the players they are paired with get closer and closer to their level as they proceed – Hence this absolutely DOES NOT disprove MMR hell.

When you see a GOOD player streaming who claims they are stuck in MMR hell, look at their teammates, look at what their teammates do, it is so obvious to me. When you see someone winning 1v2s while they have 2 teammates capping home at the start of a game, or you see the same person constantly running far and dying the whole match… It’s just so obvious.

I’m disappointed in the community on this issue.

The only way an ESL player will prove it to me that they can pull out of MMR hell, is if they make an alt char and deliberately tank the mmr to a substantially low mmr (presumably something around a 47% win/loss ratio) and THEN start streaming their crawl back to the top. Then we can really see how hard it really is, and we can also see how frustrating an experience it is for them.

Until then, they just need to be quiet and more humble.

people already did that

No one has tanked their mmr/win/loss ratio and then streamed it. No one has shown a win loss ratio of about 47/48% and then moved up. Losing 15 games does not create low mmr and does not even necessarily start the loss train. They need to tank it good – 40 or 50 straight losses, 100% solo que with no exploits, and then some more either losses consecutively or intermittently. Then stream the ladder climb.

Lmao, what a joke. People have streamed all kinds of accounts to legendary. I have personally have already done a no-HoT f2p warrior.

Not good enough. We have to throw FIFTY games first. As in cause 200 other players to lose, intentionally. I don’t think I could lose 50 times if I were AFK, not to mention what a kitten move it would be to even try.

Ya’ll are grasping at straws looking for any excuse to avoid the obvious: you are not very good.

Taking a new char w. a 50/50 win/loss or 50%mmr is not the mmr hell ppl are talking about. The fact that you state what you state makes it perfectly obvious you don’t understand how the system works. And yes, I acknowledge the problems associated with tanking your mmr only to claw your way back up the top, and the hurt that would be involved to other players – however, unless a person does this, there is no other way (except believing them and empathizing with them – something you clearly won’t/don’t do – tho u should ask yourself y so many ppl r in here complaining so vociferously) to experience the unnecessary punishments the present system inflicts on ppl caught in a downward loss cycle. I don’t recommend anyone actually do it, but until someone does do it, all I can say is that the naysayers/trolls that constantly admonish that ppl caught on the loss train qq too much should just recognize that they don’t understand the severity of the problem and can’t imagine what it’s like until they actually experience it themselves and show it via streaming so ppl understand and get the proof they claim they so endlessly need. I would think that OP’s posts should prove the mmr hell is a very real thing and has little or nothing to do w/ personal skill.

Legend Player Can't Make It Out Of MMR Hell

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

I still can’t wrap my head around the fact that people are still arguing about whether or not MMR hell exists or not. It’s ridiculously obvious to me.

Top tier players simply don’t want it to exist because if it is actually properly fixed then next season these players wont have as easy of a time.

Use common sense here: look at you teammates, do they play the same as you? Look at all these “top players” streaming, do their teammates play the same as them?

When you see some ESL player streaming from a brand new alt acc with a fresh MMR of 1 (which can be argued as above average) and they start going at it, the players they are paired with get closer and closer to their level as they proceed – Hence this absolutely DOES NOT disprove MMR hell.

When you see a GOOD player streaming who claims they are stuck in MMR hell, look at their teammates, look at what their teammates do, it is so obvious to me. When you see someone winning 1v2s while they have 2 teammates capping home at the start of a game, or you see the same person constantly running far and dying the whole match… It’s just so obvious.

I’m disappointed in the community on this issue.

The only way an ESL player will prove it to me that they can pull out of MMR hell, is if they make an alt char and deliberately tank the mmr to a substantially low mmr (presumably something around a 47% win/loss ratio) and THEN start streaming their crawl back to the top. Then we can really see how hard it really is, and we can also see how frustrating an experience it is for them.

Until then, they just need to be quiet and more humble.

people already did that

No one has tanked their mmr/win/loss ratio and then streamed it. No one has shown a win loss ratio of about 47/48% and then moved up. Losing 15 games does not create low mmr and does not even necessarily start the loss train. They need to tank it good – 40 or 50 straight losses, 100% solo que with no exploits, and then some more either losses consecutively or intermittently. Then stream the ladder climb. They can do it just as an experiment (though the poor people they play with!) and see what happens and how fun an experience it is.

But no one has done this thus far. No one. And saying they have just makes it seem like what people are saying isn’t true, which it is. Someone needs to do it. Really lose hard. Just do it and prove it. And incidentally, even if one pro player is successful at doing it, which I doubt they will be without a lot of time and aggravation and frustration, how many other players (especially those average ruby or diamond players who presumably make up the bulk of the pvp player base) will be able to replicate it without giving up or quitting altogether. And why should they have to – they actually have to work harder at playing then if they caught the win train. Fair, I think not.

Legend Player Can't Make It Out Of MMR Hell

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

From ruby MMR hell is real, but if you can’t get out of emerald or sapphire, that means you’re a trash, really, with honesty! How in earth some ppl can’t win 3 ina row? or 4 in a row? For me it is unreal when I see players saying that’s not their fault they can’t get out of those divisions!

You obviously didn’t play days 1 and 2 of season 2 solo q for 10-12 hrs ea day and get unlucky. I got trounced on day 1 by pro leagues blasting thru and afkers who thought seas 2 was the same as seas 1 and brand new players on free alt accts with vanilla builds and completely clueless about strategy.

If I am “trash” player how did I make it up to ruby? Wth – more of the sos. And believe me, it was not fun carving up out of emerald to ruby w. a low mmr. How did I have a 54% win/loss ratio at beginning of seas 2 but now its below 45%? How does that happen – really? I got that much worse in seas 2 than in 1 – and how am I ruby now, if I am a “trash” emerald player where I belonged. Wth, more rudeness and cluelessness.

Also, is the OP who is legendary really just a “trash” ruby player or is he a great legendary player? Why couldn’t he/she get out of mmr hell on his account, yet breeze to legend on his alt acct? How do u explain this = and is he garbage or not?

Really, what u r seeing is the same thing I saw immediately – ppl get stuck and they get stuck at different levels – and while it can have something to do with their personal skill, and may in fact be 100% due to their personal skill, it can also, just as easily be due to other factors besides their personal skill, and have 0% to do with their personal skill (as evidenced by OP’s “proof”).

Legend Player Can't Make It Out Of MMR Hell

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

I still can’t wrap my head around the fact that people are still arguing about whether or not MMR hell exists or not. It’s ridiculously obvious to me.

Top tier players simply don’t want it to exist because if it is actually properly fixed then next season these players wont have as easy of a time.

Use common sense here: look at you teammates, do they play the same as you? Look at all these “top players” streaming, do their teammates play the same as them?

When you see some ESL player streaming from a brand new alt acc with a fresh MMR of 1 (which can be argued as above average) and they start going at it, the players they are paired with get closer and closer to their level as they proceed – Hence this absolutely DOES NOT disprove MMR hell.

When you see a GOOD player streaming who claims they are stuck in MMR hell, look at their teammates, look at what their teammates do, it is so obvious to me. When you see someone winning 1v2s while they have 2 teammates capping home at the start of a game, or you see the same person constantly running far and dying the whole match… It’s just so obvious.

I’m disappointed in the community on this issue.

The only way an ESL player will prove it to me that they can pull out of MMR hell, is if they make an alt char and deliberately tank the mmr to a substantially low mmr (presumably something around a 47% win/loss ratio) and THEN start streaming their crawl back to the top. Then we can really see how hard it really is, and we can also see how frustrating an experience it is for them.

Until then, they just need to be quiet and more humble.

Your Top 5 Suggestions to ANET sPvP

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

throw the whole system out and start over

don’t punish people – don’t restart seas 3 with players being burdened with low mmr or low win/loss ratios for w/e reasons – scrap it all and start over w. everyone on a level playing field (I started the season at 54% win/loss – I am now below 45% – how is this possible in one season, esp after years of pvping – and which one is reflective of my “skill” – season 1 at 54% or seas 2 at 44% or neither or w/e)

why shouldn’t good players have to endure bad players – as a “bad” player with low mmr, I am forced to encounter and play w/ “bad” people all day long everyday. I never get to play w/ “good” players – I’m not allowed because of the present system. How can I improve then? How can I tier up? How can I ever find out if its my own personal skill that put me here – or something else like a win begets win/loss begets loss system (or perpetual pairings w/ losing/new/low mmr players so … have some more losses pls)

teams of 100% soloers should never be pitted against pre-made teams of 2 or 3 or 4

Make it all 100% random, w/ no class duplication (or balanced so that 2 mesmers exist on both teams, etc)

Don’t ever allow amber players w/ ruby players, unless the opposing team is matched identically (i.e. 1 duo of ruby/amber per team, etc) – I mean what’s the pt of being in ruby, for ex, if ur team is 2 ambers, 1 saph, 2 rubies (all solos – no duos/teams) and ur opp is 5 solo rubies (or worse, 4 rubies premade w/ 1 solo ruby)- how does this happen?

Consider factoring in length of time/exp players have in pvp as a threshold for placement – certainly after playing 2000 games I must be a better pvper than a brand new player – altho my current win/loss ratio (and presumable low mmr) would suggest otherwise (how can this be, unless I’m unbearably stupid, but even then pure random match-up would suggest it would be almost impossible to encounter a 100 game losing streak). Brand new players with vanilla builds should never be paired with experienced players, unless the opposing team has the same disadvantage.

NO rerolls ever – no logouts mid game to get achieves on other chars – if u log out, u lose a pip (but ur teammates don’t lose a pip – but they don’t win one either if they win) – I have seen ppl using rerolls to exploit in so many diff ways its disgusting – u get what u get when u load in – makes it more random/more challenging and actually separates the men from the boys cuz then it truly is more based on skill and the ability to flex/adapt to w/e ur presented with.

Ban repeat afkers/bot/match manipulators and penalize their individual pips after multiple offenses

Balance skills/classes rather than rotating the classes who get OP meta this season

Don’t have OP tanky builds and if there’s a healer on one team, the other one must have one also – I have seen too many games where the entire game is won because of a single healer or single tank that 4 teammates just couldn’t kill (why they bother to try rather than rotate I’ll never understand), so the cap never changes (yes, this is how it is at the bottom)

Eliminate downed states in rpvp- if u down a player, they’re dead – the whole synchronized stomp, pull and double rez w/ ur pet, dead but not really dead, dead but rezzed, down but then inexplicably instantly somewhere else on the map w/ full health or rolling thru base portals in downed states or any # of other ridiculous things I have seen, whether legit or exploit should be eliminated – matches would be over quicker too and the play more intense (tho u could extend pts needed). This would put ppl in q availability sooner and there would be faster skill play, more indicative of skill rather than gimmicky, he was dead but then two teammates rezzed him, and then they downed me but my teammates were interrupted rezzing me or it took too long for my rez, etc – it would get rid of all that useless bs that makes games tedious and less to do w/ skill and more about gimmicks/tankiness or “rezzing skill.”

Stop punishing poor/weak/new players and average players and some good players caught in the hell of mmr-mandated perpetual losses for the benefit of pro players who just wanted to “get there faster” and didn’t want to have to do what I have to do all day everyday – teach ppl strategy and skill and builds and simply how to pvp, only to endure endless abuse from both losers and winners and smug gloating from the pros – not fun

Punishing players by relegating them to an endless, or potentially endless losing streak is demoralizing, not fun, not necessary and counter-intuitive to profitability and longevity of the game – pls don’t sacrifice the game to serve a few smug epurts players that will rise to the top no matter what anyway – it just might take them a little longer, and along the way, the games might be a little more diverse and challenging and fun and require actual flexible personal skill than gimmicky synchronized builds with 1,2,3 focus/stomp/next tactics (think HOH IWAY).

I personally would like to see 100% random, solo with teams at the top composed of non-synced solo players whose stats match ea other (from all their individual games) and like a box of chocolates they never know what they’re going to get or be up against

Ruby division makes people hate PvP

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

This is very simple, its not a reward track. It’s a rank system, and technically works. Sapphire/Ruby should have your most average players with a close-to 50% win rate in that division, making it hard to work out of, but not fall too far back, too.
.

Up to ruby it is actually essentially a reward track.

Yes, I realize early parts are like a reward track. I think that is their attempt to make it “somewhat” fun for everyone. But that doesn’t mean everyone “deserves” to have Legendary. I feel the way it is set up is actually very generous… It’s still prestigious to get to Legendary, but most people can at least make it to ruby if they put in the time and effort, so they can at least wrack up some of the smaller rewards. That’s perfect if you ask me. The problem with Leagues right now is entirely entitlement, unfortunately, the game has pushed that entitlement because “it’s a casual game” and “everyone can be a hero”. They finally added ONE thing that pvpers can use for a little ounce of prestige and PVErs and entitled solo-quing casuals feel they MUST be able to reach legendary or it shouldn’t exist at all… I hate to come off as harsh, but why?

The only valid excuse/complaint I see currently is that the PVE legendary back piece isn’t in the game yet. And I agree, that’s annoying, but beyond that, it’s ONE prestigious thing in the game… Just let it be…

I play pvp not for the backpiece – couldn’t care less about it. This response doesn’t sound harsh, it sounds pompous.

To be at legendary in seas 2 is not something u should feel particularly proud over and be so snobby or elitist over. This is the one season in rpvp when ur win actually seems like it doesn’t mean much – u rode the win train to glory – bfd. How much was due to your actual skill and how much was due to coding – pitting you with winning players against losing players – seems like a glorified fun fest for you and misery for those caught in the losing train.

For you to really feel elitist and proud, and for someone like me to actually admire you, I would suggest this gameplay – 100% solo que, totally random match-ups on both teams. No ability to ts or coordinate or reroll or mod/manipulate. Individual wins/pips are then matched up and the people rise to the top – is it a grind? Perhaps But it is then much more indicative of your personal skill and if ur in the No.1 team then, composed of only players who are also at same win/pip total, then I will admire you then and you can feel free to lord it over everyone.

Until then, I would suggest several things:

This system now promotes team IWAY type of play and everyone saw what happened in gw1 HOH after iway became the only way to play – it was the highway for everyone else and it was a ghost town long before the game died;

Modesty and humbleness would serve you well, as you just sound like an elitist who doesn’t really deserve it and you prolly got there by gimmicks, or riding coding designed win streaks so w/e;

Deliberately tank your win/loss mmr rating – get it really low on purpose – then carve your way back up to legendary – stream it and prove it – you claim you’re where you are from skill alone, so do it – prove it. If you’re as good as you say you should easily be able to sail thru to legend or certainly diamond before seas 2 ends, even if you start today, just be sure your win loss is about 46% or lower when in amber. Once you do this, and prove it (stream it), then you will have my respect. However, I would genuinely like to hear what your experience is like in doing this – was it fun? was it demoralizing? did you get better? was it frustrating? did you feel like your personal skill served you or helped clueless teammates? did you like playing pro level better? did you like playing like a pro with noobs who said you don’t know how to play (cus they will). Just curious.

Otherwise, maybe you should think about shutting up, cuz u know not what you’re talking about – ur only spouting off from the preferred coding win train and it doesn’t sit very well with many of us who got fed into the machine for reasons having nothing to do with our personal skill levels.

Its funny that you think its prestigious to be at the top with your backpiece right now. I don’t covet it, and I’m not sour grapes. Gratz to you that you got it and that you feel the way you do about it – that is sincere. However, my gaming experience in pvp has been ruined. So I hope it was worth it to you. And I’m truly wondering why, of all things, you should feel prestige about it – I don’t think anyone at the top, given the current coding and winning begets winning and losing begets losing designed system, should feel particularly proud of their winnings. If it were me, I would be kinda ashamed (imo) cuz I would know that my quick wins doomed some players to a hell that they may never be able to carve out of ever (especially if anet doesn’t reset mmr or redesign the system) – and believe me, that hell is not fun. Not fun. Do you hear me? Is it getting thru? Its not fun – and this is supposed to be a fun game for everyone . Fun = you know, a game. Fun. This is not fun! But how nice for you! Surely there must be a better way for you to prove ur mettle as the fantastic player I’m sure you are, and for me to still have fun doing something I used to love in a game I used to love.

(edited by Eater of Peeps.9062)

How did this match happen?

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

IF anet is going to randomize matchmaking, by putting you with whomever is available, then why are we also being penalized by mmr? Either make the whole thing random or not – this halfway stuff is bs and not well thought out. I mean, really, the pros couldn’t simply just progress thru random teams and eventually make it to the top where they belong (qq some more pros!) – no they had to be paired with the winners begetting more wins and getting to the top quickly (and us losers with more losers begetting more losses). Wow, what a huge price to pay – a slower ascent, but a much happier player base or a fast ascent and people quitting in rage left and right.

How did this match happen?

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

I agree with this assessment. I have been on teams with 4 necros, and against teams with 4 necros. I have seen 3 mesmers a warrior and a necro against 3 necros an ele and a druid. Guess which teams wins?

In addition, now that I am in ruby, I find another thing really shocking. Since my mmr is presumably garbage (since my win loss ratio is now approaching something like 44%) with at least one 100 game losing streak, and since I do solo q, my teammates can be composed of anybody with a low mmr like me. I have lost games where all 5 opponents were rubies, but on my team, I was the only ruby player and the others were 2 sapphires and 2 ambers. How does this happen?

What does it mean to be in ruby division when I am paired with sapphire and amber players (cuz that’s all that’s available that has garbage mmr). Why am I not paired with ruby players with better mmr than me (cuz that’s all that’s available) to take on ruby players who by design have better mmr than me. Nope, the system gives me sapphires and ambers with low mmrs reflective of mine, in order to ensure I keep losing, rather than risk pairing me with a winning ruby player or players that might risk lowering their mmrs by playing with me (at least per the system design anyway) against all ruby opponents.

So really, I’m in ruby division now, but I’m still in mmr hell, cuz I’m still being paired with low mmr sapphire and emerald and amber players! What does it really mean to progress then? What does being ruby really mean?

What a system!

Post group compositions for defeated matches

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

I agree with this assessment. I have been on teams with 4 necros, and against teams with 4 necros. I have seen 3 mesmers a warrior and a necro against 3 necros an ele and a druid. Guess which teams wins?

In addition, now that I am in ruby, I find another thing really shocking. Since my mmr is presumably garbage (since my win loss ratio is now approaching something like 44%) with at least one 100 game losing streak, and since I do solo q, my teammates can be composed of anybody with a low mmr like me. I have lost games where all 5 opponents were rubies, but on my team, I was the only ruby player and the others were 2 sapphires and 2 ambers. How does this happen?

What does it mean to be in ruby division when I am paired with sapphire and amber players (cuz that’s all that’s available that has garbage mmr). Why am I not paired with ruby players with better mmr than me (cuz that’s all that’s available) to take on ruby players who by design have better mmr than me. Nope, the system gives me sapphires and ambers with low mmrs reflective of mine, in order to ensure I keep losing, rather than risk pairing me with a winning ruby player or players that might risk lowering their mmrs by playing with me (at least per the system design anyway) against all ruby opponents.

So really, I’m in ruby division now, but I’m still in mmr hell, cuz I’m still being paired with low mmr sapphire and emerald and amber players! What does it really mean to progress then? What does being ruby really mean?

What a system!

Legend Player Can't Make It Out Of MMR Hell

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

I’ve been saying this since day 2 of seas 2. MMR hell is real, and I am so tired of ppl saying its not, or that its my fault. From what I can see, my being trapped and pitted with crappy players has little to nothing to do with my personal skill. I’ve even started playing worse now, partly because I don’t care anymore (too demoralized) and partly because that’s all I see, so my own gameplay is now sinking to the lowest common denominator. I never get the chance to get better cuz I’m not around players who play well anymore so I wouldn’t even know what it looks like to “get better.”

What was the purpose of all this? Really, just so legendaries could have a quick time getting to the inevitable top? And the game is ruined for the rest of us? Really? I love gws – I hate to think how many people have quit cuz of this stupid decision and lazy coding with no respect for those not in legendary status.

Legend Player Can't Make It Out Of MMR Hell

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

You lose games because of crappy teammates, which leads to a drop in your MMR that leads to even crappier teammates. This is what you claim.

According to what you say, it is not your fault that you lose the games. OK
By any stretch of imagination, if you keep dropping in MMR and get paired with more crappy teammates, you also face more crappy opponents. If it is not your fault that you lose these games, you should be able to tip the balance in favor of your team. That is how the system works. Or are you convinced that the system treats you in biased fashion and specifically provides YOU crappy teammates while the opposing team consists of better players?

This is a load of rotten cabbage, just like every other thread in this forum that complains about the imaginary concept of ‘’MMR hell’’.

This reply is a load of rotten garbage. There is a MMR hell and you’ve obviously never gotten stuck in it. Is that cuz you’re so good? You can sway your team? Prove it. Do what I said above.

I was stuck on my main pvp character on the second day of seas 2. I got stuck in emerald tier 1. I got there from day 1 players thinking they should manipulate system by afking again, pro teams blowing through on ts, pre-mades okittenainst solo players, vanilla builds, brand new players who came on free accounts, dc’ers, and just plain noobs. I play a lot. I had a loss streak of about 100 give or take. Once I started losing (not realizing I should quit, cuz it was day 1 afterall), I just played harder and harder – no not grinding. I still lost. One good player, and sometimes even or 3 good players cannot turn a game.

The entire time I was stuck in emerald tier 1, I heard stuff like this. Just get good. Its all garbage – you’re where you belong. Its personal skill. I can tell you those responses are a load of garbage from a bunch of smug jerks who rode the win train to the top – yes the win train – not personal skill – at least not entirely – they were paired with other winning players. I was consistently paired with losing players. And our opponents were often pros on their way to leagues. Yah, completely fair. I can remember compositions of 4 pro players and a solo (3 necros, an ele, and some random) against my entire team of solos – thief, necro, 2 mes, war, and all on vanilla builds but my meta reap. Carry that right?

I am now on my same account in ruby. I made it the hard way. Solo que up out of mmr hell. I will never make it out of ruby. I can remember days, no weeks, of teaching people literally how to pvp. They are better players for it, but I have the losses.

What I want to know is – am I an emerald player with emerald skill – cuz I was stuck there for almost three weeks of solid game play 10-12 hrs a day or am I a ruby player – now to be stuck in tier 1 forever (cuz with a win loss ratio now approaching something abysmal I will never progress out of ruby) or am I a ruby player with ruby skill?

Just answer that please. Am I emerald where I belong or am I ruby where I belong – cuz my skill hasn’t changed. After 14 years of pvping on gw, and since pvping in gw2 since beta (my fav thing to do on the game) I didn’t all of a sudden “get gud” in a few weeks (less than a full season 2) to progress from emerald to ruby.

On the other hand, if I’m a ruby player, where I belong, then how do you explain my getting stuck, and being at the bottom teaching ppl how to play for more than 3 weeks (which believe me, there is no other hell than that in all the games I’ve ever played in my life – it was the worst experience ever). How can I have such a garbage win/loss ratio when at the start of the season it was 54%. How can I have a loss streak of 100 games if I’m a ruby player.

Give me a break.

Most importantly, why would anet think it would be nice to make losing players play losing players. They would never have a chance to win. Even if all the losers actually lost because of only their own personal skill, and it was truly reflective of only their personal skill, and then they were all thrown in a pit together to lose together endlessly, why would anet think this would be a fun experience for anyone?

(edited by Eater of Peeps.9062)

Legend Player Can't Make It Out Of MMR Hell

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

Pass me the account info. I’ll get it out of “mmr hell” and into legendary for you.

Sure you will. If you’re so hot, do it. You can do it all by yourself. Just make an alt account. Deliberately tank the character – get the win/loss ratio at about 47% or lower – usually takes about 100 losses – you usually need a long consecutive streak to catch the loss bus. Now start streaming. Breeze your way to legendary from there. Do it. Prove it.

Or shut up.

S2 From a High-Level Player's View

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

“… where the algorithm grabs a game outcome and modifies it with a predicted outcome, weights it with a function of deviation, and normalizes it, using throughout your opponents rating and deviation.

your win rate has little to nothing to do with your current mmr." ?

Huh? The algorithm “grabs your game outcome … but has little to nothing to do with your current mmr?” O, I c, win/loss (game outcome) has nothing to do with mmr and vice versa! Right.

I have had the coding thoroughly explained by someone who knows. I get how it works.

I stand by what I said. If you have a losing streak of about 10-20 games for whatever reasons (and it could be anything, and on the first day it was many things), the algorithm codes it so that you will lose 66% of the time, and likewise, if you have a win streak of about 10-20 games, you will win 66% of the time. That is the end result and net effect of the algorithm, however you guys choose to explain. Just do the simple math.

S2 From a High-Level Player's View

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

Wow, that really cleared it up! Not. I wasn’t confused, you just misinterpreted what I said, but w.e. I do appreciate that you took the time to explain ur view of mmr vs win/loss differentiation, as it may help some.

The net result is still how I described it.

So... Griefers.

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

Also, there have been so many that have said to me – “qq.” You’re just mad and frustrated because you lost and you’re blaming it on others. Take a wake up pill – I’m sure, like so many others are, and so many others have said to me, that it must be your skill: i.e. – A good player should be able to carry an entire team, never mind one little afk’er.

Gee, are you complaining that your mmr is getting tanked cuz of others? I thought mmr was only reflective of a person’s individual skill level!

Don’t tell me you actually lost games because of a teammate who didn’t give his/her all – I.e. a flamer/afker/griefer – and you couldn’t carry the game to victory? If you did win, what are you complaining about? If you lost, and you believe it was due to an afker/griefer, why do you expect this situation to be corrected simply because you are frustrated by it, when so many peoples’ complaints of getting stuck in tiers due to losing streaks caused by the behaviors of others falls on deaf ears and is summarily dismissed by smug “higher skilled” players?

S2 From a High-Level Player's View

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

You know Yasi, I would. But now I won’t. Being pressured to prove myself is not something I care to do so you believe me. Believe whatever you want. Doesn’t make me a liar or you right.

Insanemaniac – “there is no such thing as a hardcoded win rate … to give you an unwinnable match or 2 after a win.” If you do the mathematics, as your mmr lowers, the end result is that if you win, let’s say 40% of the games you play, you will be partied up with players who also win 40% of the games they play, therefore the odds of you coming up against a “worse” team then you is only 39% and the odds of you coming up against a better team than yours is 61%. This applies to each of your teammates as well since their low MMR is what also got them placed on your team. By contrast, the other team has a 61% chance of winning (a substantially greater chance of winning than your team’s 39%).

Thus, the artificial skew/favoring of winning streaks over losing streaks and the correlational rewarding of those winning streaks by matching up players with similar mmrs and vice versa.

S2 From a High-Level Player's View

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

Also Basket, if u r such a cas player, then why all the passionate posts filled with generalized and specific suspicion and toxicity? I am a hardcore casual player. I solo q as well. I hope you don’t hit your plateau (and I suspect you won’t cuz u have the benefits of the warnings posted on these forums), which you certainly might do if you offer to help out lower tier players!

S2 From a High-Level Player's View

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

I play my meta reaper and meta rev and dh on my main. I play necro on my alts. I am less familiar w. my non meta build on my alt than the builds I play on my main. There, Yasi, I’ve thought about it. Now what? So where’s the rub? You’re wrong in your assumptions, kitten many are on this forum.

Basket – your last post says it all. You’ve only played 20 games this season.

I played all day day 1, day 2, day 3, day 4. Remember, many of these problems were unknown in the early days of the season, hence the voluminous amount of posts. No one knew what was happening. I didn’t figure out what was going on, and the extent of it, and the significance of it for long lasting effects, until several days in, after coming to the forums and reading, and comparing my own experiences with others. I thought I had gone insane and was caught in the Twilight Zone. I just kept losing and losing no matter what I did or how hard I tried. I have never experienced that in all my years playing gw. Had a friend not told me to check the forums, I might have never figured out what was wrong, and the full extent of it, and seen how my experience seemed to differ from others, yet be the same as others at the same time.

I’m in emerald, not amber. I carried teams thru amber as well. In emerald tier 1 and 2, you can get both amber and emerald teammates (time of day/mmr, etc) and you can get pitted against all emerald, emerald/saph, or all sapphire teams (same considerations). Plus, you have a built-in coding mechanism that not only pits you against a superior team intentionally, it codes it so that you only have a 33% chance of beating them!

I wish I could get some matches where ppl knew to even run to mid node.

Several pros have offered. How do you know I haven’t accepted their offers? Why do you persist in making assumptions that are continuously wrong? Ask my pro league friends their genuine opinions as to whether I suck. I don’t admit to being a pro player, or even necessarily a good player. But I know I’m a much better player than where I continue to be stuck, even with pro player assistance.

S2 From a High-Level Player's View

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

I do pvp on my alt for the funner pvp experience. However, I have a personal attachment and pride attached to my main char, as I am sure you do. I would like to have the achievements completed (don’t care about the backpiece). Is that wrong to want the achievements? Why do you care why I play, and what my personal reasons are for wanting to get the achieves on my main as well as my alts?

S2 From a High-Level Player's View

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

I have many typos in my posts cuz I type so fast (hence the 10 mins) and don’t bother to really edit (so sry to all). Sometimes I catch them, sometimes I don’t. I meant you can start a free account or a HoT account and play ranked pvp, which is what I did, since I have both. Players on the game have seen me and know me on all of my accounts, but whatever.

And I never said anywhere I got to ruby in one day. Never.

When you plateau, and you start losing, I will say to you to keep trying to improve to get to say diamond, or ruby, or leagues or whatever it is that’s your goal. If you keep playing when You personally plateau (I never had the option of “plateauing”), and you keep losing, you will then experience what I experienced that first day. Your mmr will tank, and you will start getting matched up with players who are worse and worse. At that point, not only will you have “plateaued” (and remember, I didn’t get the chance to “plateau,” as my mmr was driven down day 1 while I was still in emerald by pro leagues stomping on solo quer’s), but you will start to lose mmr. The mmr coding is then designed for you to win 33% of the time. You now have an uphill battle out of your “plateau” – you have reached your personal skill level (in your case, probably true, but in many other’s cases, not so much, since many other factors were responsible for driving down their mmrs that first day, and in some instances, still persists today), and you are coded to win only 33% of your games, and you are paired with teammates who are worse than your teammates on your last game (if mmr is truly a reflection of personal skill, which it is not). On the other hand, your opposition has none of these limitations, cuz they may all be on a winning streak. They may also be a team of four. In addition, it’s even more disastrous, if, as you’re trying to get out of your plateau (you know, “stuck”), you are solo queing, and you have no idea who your teammates are, you cannot organize/synchronize/communicate with them and you have no idea what their true respective skill levels are.

Sorry you feel I have made outrageous claims. These claims are real. Some of the pro players who have offered to help “carry me” are seeing that what I am posting is real firsthand Think whatever you want. Or put your money where your mouth is and help lower mmr players with skill out of their disastrous and exceedingly frustrating and demoralizing play experience. If you find that all the players at the bottom who are stuck really suck, what will you have lost? If you find that what I say is true on the other hand, what will you have gained? Humbleness if nothing else, I suspect.

S2 From a High-Level Player's View

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

In my original post I had a typo I wanted to correct so I did so, and since there were no replies to it at the time, I did so.

I want to address what you and Basket said as well.

I resent you, in essence, calling me a liar. It is a violation of forum rules. You do not have to believe me. I do not have to prove anything to you, and I certainly don’t have to show you my PvP API keys.

I have many people who are actively involved with my experience and can verify for you that what I am saying is the truth. I see one already has. I have no reason to lie. What in the world would be my reason for lying? I mean, think about it. If I suck, and I’m just complaining, I will be stuck forever anyway, so what good will come of all the complaining? I am trying to make anet and other players aware of a significant, probably unintended (at least in practice if not in conceptualization) problem with the software coding for seas 2 ranked pvp, as it is grossly penalizing solo q players, especially those who played day 1. Hopefully other players can learn to avoid some of the mistakes that I made that first day (by playing all day when pros were going thru, or not taking a break of a few days when you get a losing streak, etc.) and can avoid the frustrating experience I am having.

Also, it only takes me 10 mins or so to type my posts. That’s what graduate school will do for you. If you don’t want to read wot, or its tldr for you, move on to twitter soundbytes where most people don’t learn or hear anything. Please also feel free to block me on the game. I find block is a very useful function for players who never want to hear or learn anything from anyone.

As to Basket’s comment. I purchased 2 HoT expansions on 2 diff accts prior to seas 2. You can also get gw 2 main game for free and play ranked pvp.

Also, I don’t mind giving gw money. I love the game! That’s why I have been playing it for 14 yrs. Its my favorite game. Why do you think I am so passionate about what I believe is a serious coding mistake? I hate seas 2 of ranked pvp, and it has ruined the pvp experience for me, and since it is my fav thing to do on the game, and it appears I will be stuck in emerald solo q forever w/ no way up or out and my mmr ruined for all future seasons, yah, Im thinking of quitting.

However, there have been many very cool, understanding players who have offered support and help. I am in a state of indecision at present. I want to keep playing. I love all aspects of gw2 (though there is room for improvement in many areas of the game), but as to whether this ranked pvp change will be a dealbreaker, this jury of one is still out deciding.

Please keep your toxic, judgmental opinions about me and my personal experience to yourself, and keep your posts limited, like I did, to your own satisfaction or dissatisfaction with your own experience playing – it is very rude and unwarranted otherwise and you keep doing it, adding to the toxicity and personal player attacks.

And while you are not directly stating I am a liar, you are certainly implying and suggesting I am and challenging me to prove I am not. No thank you, I will pass on the challenge. I don’t think I will engage in any further toxicity with you. Think whatever you like of me, and try to discredit all that I say as much as you like. When losing mmr happens to you (if and/or when it does) you will then finally have a different perception and personal player toxicity and attacks will no longer seem like something you feel some personal need to do.

S2 From a High-Level Player's View

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

Well to Basket and insane maniac – I resent you calling me a liar (in essence) and negating my exp, or claiming that if I play as much as I do (I do), that surely I would be out of my stuck positing in tier 2 emerald by now, so I must suck and be where I belong.

I am now in ruby on my alt after 3 days of playing. My alt had a clean slate when I started playing, as it is a new char. I could have been a brand new player to pvp, being thrown into the system with experienced players, starting at the exact same place as them, but hardly of the same skill level. However, I do have skill. That is why I am in ruby now.

Nonetheless, on my main, where I also play pvp everyday, I am stuck in emerald tier 2 (I ranked up from tier 1 yesterday where I had been since day 1). My “rank up”/ladder exp on my alt was completely different than my “rank up”/ladder exp on my main re: moving up/down the ranks.

You people in here on winning streaks obviously haven’t experienced a losing streak and have no idea what the losing streak “unskilled” pvp players are complaining about. Until you do, you might want to think about all of the unsensitivity and harshness out there being expressed against players who have already been kicked really hard by a messed up system that penalizes losing streak players.

I might remind you, you lose as a team. Consequently, your personal mmr is adjusted according to the play motivations and skill levels of each and every one of your teammates you play with on every game. Hence, your personal mmr is based on your overall team composition each game and many other factors, including your personal skill as well as the personal skill level of all your teammates.

Also, many factors were present the 1st day of the season, that are not present today, including pro leagues blasting thru the system and trouncing solo quer’s (who were hardly on a level playing with them, since they couldn’t coordinate or be on ts with their teammates or have gimmicky synchronized op stomp builds) and artificially driving their mmr into the ground that day (before people figured out to stop playing if you lose a few and come back later – and how nice for some of you that you figured it out quickly).

Also, how do you explain that I am now, after 3 days of playing, in ruby with my alt, yet I am stuck in emerald on my main? I have breezed thru the ranks on my necro on my new alt, yet on my meta reaper main I am stuck in emerald.

Am I a bad, “unskilled” player, or a good “skilled” player? Am I a complainer, or am I a happy camper? And no, I am not a liar.

Please. Those of you slamming “unskilled players” (whatever that is, according to seas 2), you are all just riding the wave of happiness that happens when the system projects you will have a 66% win ratio if you catch a winning streak for whatever reason (especially true/likely if you do not play a lot, or you started the season either new or with an above 50% win/loss ratio, or you did not play the first day, or you have the benefit of reading forums and following the advice to quit playing for a bit if you lose).

Wait till you plateau. Then you will catch the losing streak, and then you will be a loser, and your mmr will tank and then you will be an “unskilled player with low mmr” stuck wherever you are (perhaps in diamond, lol, if you are lucky). So which will it be then – you are an “unskilled player with horrible mmr” stuck in diamond forever, or will you be a “skilled player stuck in diamond” with a horrible mmr who rode the magic win bus to get to diamond – or will you just stop playing so as to not destroy your mmr. I suspect the latter.

As to why people cannot get out of being stuck in emerald or amber or low sapphire. Have you seen the quality of players in emerald tier 1? They are drawing from ambers. These are people who do not pvp, don’t know what nodes are, think getting the highest score means they’re the best, one on one in mid map, etc.

While I may not be pro league, I am also not representative of the types of players I am typically paired with. Its almost impossible to move up if your team routinely consists of, for example, a mesmer, war, necro, ele, and ranger, and 2 are from tier 4 amber and 1 from emerald tier 1 and 1 from emerald tier 4 and none of the teamamtes are playing meta (or even good builds for that matter) and none of them are experienced or skilled and your team is pitted against a team of 3 meta reapers, a dh and a healer ele, all from sapphire tier 1 with average skill and experience or higher. Who’s gonna win?

Anyway, I think there are many people out there with significantly different experiences than the so-called “skilled” players, and I do not think they are trashtalking. They are frustrated and upset (especially, if like me, you love strong ranked competition pvp) and are good players being artificially penalized. And the proposed solution of playing unranked is not satisfactory, since it has now become the training playground, where people play out new classes/skills or 1 v 1 each other in a corner of the map. Hardly the same as ranked, and hardly fun.

As to how much I play, I play 10-12 hrs a day, and since seas 2 started its all been pvp. Sometimes I give up and go to unranked. Sometimes I’m on my alts. But its all pvp, and the majority of it is ranked pvp. In the first 4 -5 days it was exclusively ranked pvp on my main trying to get out of being stuck in tier 1 emerald – 10 hrs a day in ranked pvp on my main.

I have a scenario I would like each of you “skilled” players to try. Go create a free HoT alt char. Go into ranked pvp. Breeze thru to ruby or higher. Then go help those players you know or believe to be skilled players caught in a nasty downward mmr spiral stuck at a tier. See how easy it really is to “carry” them up and out. If you play with them, and in your opinion they suck and are where they belong, move on and pick another player. I will guess that you will see many are good players and that it is exceedingly hard, if not impossible, for you and that “unskilled” player to progress. Further, as your own mmr tanks on that alt char (if it does) watch what happens to your own personal ability to get out of a long losing streak (and remember, some of those players who are experienced and good players got “stuck” in their tiers/losing streaks on day 1 of seas 2).

You may want to think about your own talk here, as it feels pretty harsh to me. I am a player who can see your "skilled’ point of view easily, as I have had the same type of happy experience with the seas 2 system on my alt, but I also know firsthand, the very real and upsetting losing/stuck experience many players are experiencing on the flip side, and rubbing their noses further into the ground by being callous is not helping the situation at all. It’s actually pretty harmful and toxic on a human level. It also contributes to making good players who love gw want to leave forever. Better think about the consequences of what type of player base will be left (new casuals) if you are too harsh a critic about a system you haven’t experienced the negative effects of, regardless of your skill level.

All these S2 threads....

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

I haven’t trash talked anyone. I am now in ruby on my alt. However, on my main, where I play pvp everyday, I am stuck in emerald tier 2 where I have been since day 1. My “rank up”/ladder exp on my alt was completely different than my “rank up”/ladder exp on my main re: moving/up down the ranks. You obviously haven’t experienced a losing streak and have no idea what the losing streak “unskilled” pvp players are complaining about. Until you do, you might want to think about all of the unsensitivity and harshness out there being expressed against players who have already been kicked really hard by a messed up system that penalizes losing streak players.

I might remind you, you lose as a team. Consequently, your personal mmr is adjusted according to the play motivations and skill levels of each and every one of your teammates you play with on every game. Hence, your personal mmr is based on your overall team composition and many other factors, including your personal skill and the personal skill level of all your teammates.

Many factors were present the 1st day of the season, that are not present today, including pro leagues blasting thru the system and trouncing solo quer’s (who were hardly on a level playing with them, since they couldn’t coordinate or be on ts with their teammates or have gimmicky synchronized op stomp builds) and artificially driving their mmr into the ground that day (before people figured out to stop playing if you lose a few and come back later).

Also, how do you explain that I am now, after 3 days of playing, in ruby with my alt, yet I am stuck in emerald on my main? I have breezed thru the ranks on my dh on my new alt, yet on my meta reaper main I am stuck in emerald. Am I a bad, “unskilled” player, or a good “skilled” player?

Please. You’re just riding the wave of happiness that the system projects will have a 66% win ratio if you catch a winning streak for whatever reason (especially if you do not play a lot and you started the season either new or with an above 50% win/loss ratio, or you did not play the first day, or you have the benefit of reading forums and following the advice to quit playing for a bit if you lose). Wait till you plateau. Then you will catch the losing streak, and then you will be a loser, and your mmr will tank and then you will be an “unskilled player with low mmr” stuck wherever you are (perhaps in diamond, lol, if you are lucky).

Anyway, I think there are many people out there with a significantly different experience than your own, and I do not think they are trashtalking. They are frustrated and upset (especially, if like me, you love strong ranked competition pvp) and are good players being artificially penalized. And the proposed solution of playing unranked is not satisfactory, since it has now become the training playground, where people play out new classes/skills or 1 v 1 each other in a corner of the map. Hardly the same as ranked, and hardly fun.

You may want to think about your own talk here, as it feels pretty harsh to me. I am a player who can see your point of view easily, as I have had the same type of happy experience with the seas 2 system on my alt, but I now firsthand the very real and upsetting losing/stuck experience many players on experiencing on the flip side, and rubbing their noses further by being callous is not helping the situation at all.

All these S2 threads....

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

its not season which sucks its players

its not posts which sucks its posters.

trashtalking good players on forum wont get you out of your loss streak, you should stop verbally abusing your team and read your skills and that should be enough to easily get to ruby

S2 From a High-Level Player's View

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

total bs. I played 10 hrs a day in solo q and was stuck for 8 days on the same bottom tier of emerald, where I was sunk the first day (when I also played 10 hrs a day)

then a friend finally offered to help. In 20 mins of play I gained a whole tier. How is it possible that I couldn’t break out in over a week, what it only took 20 mins to do when I teamed up w/ another? If I suck, then just having 2 shouldn’t have mattered, as I have been paired on many teams w/ duo pair ups (other ppl). No, I think the difference is, my friend and I are both good players, and we were able to carry the team. One person alone cannot do it.

So w/e. Grinding doesn’t help or get u anywhere.

S2 From a High-Level Player's View

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

This is from higher level diamond and rubys complaining about hour long ques in another thread.

claytonmorby.3751

No I completely agree that it sucks and needs a solution, sorry for being a kitten just my natural state.

I took a break for a day and because it was the same exact 10-12 people for like 12 straight matches in ruby. I think what this season clearly shows is that the divisions themselves need to be reworked. The population can’t support the number of divisions and tiers to have good matchmaking. Also if people like us are on a 12+ game win streak, then kitten maybe we should skip emerald and sapphire. But oh wait that can’t happen cause anet made a hybrid reward track/league instead of a true competitive ladder :p

I guess its not a true ladder after all.

People have been saying this would happen for days. People are getting burned out with losing match after match. My matches are working out about 50/50. But as soon as I lose 3 games I stop playing PvP for the day. No point in wrecking my MMR. If most players are doing this it would thin the numbers. Some might be doing this but I know of people who have just stopped playing ranked PvP as the have been stuck in the same place for days.

I know for there to be winners there has to be losers. But the current system seems to take this to extremes. I read a post yesterday that a player was claiming the couldn’t move out of T1 amber. I’m T4 emerald and I’m being matched up with sapphire players all the time. I don’t expect to be handed anything, but when I’m getting stomped or being the stomper, games are not challenging. They seem to be one-sided slaughters.

I’ve had a few close matches in the last week probably about 7 in total.

just fyi, it is actually normal to face players from higher divisions when you are in t4-5

What when you’ve just broken in to T4? I’ve only seen them in the last 2 days. So I can only go on my own experiences.

Just about everyone has made this point now..

The problem was last season couldn’t be used for placements, as the divisions were meaningless. I hope they implement this going forward

They are still meaningless. play enough and long enough and you’ll keep going to you hit a division that once you can lose T’s you won’t progress anymore if you are not good enough.

S2 From a High-Level Player's View

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

Oh yes I do

how would u know? do u live with me?

I spend ten hours a day or more on this game in pvp, which anet can verify easily

I am stuck in the same pip/tier for over a week

so w/e man, don’t try to discredit me or call me a liar. I am not a liar. I don’t need to be a liar. This does not require courage at all to speak on the forums, and I have no interest whatsoever in discrediting the game – I love the game!

S2 From a High-Level Player's View

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

I spend 10 hrs a day trying to grind out of the emerald tier the pro leagues all sank me to that first day.

no you dont.

The Ultimate Answer to Season 2

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

it wont get better. My mmr was driven down abysmally that first day. I played against pros, and no one told me to not hot join that day. no one told me that my mmr would be driven down abysmally and that losses, by coding, would beget more losses. I didn’t know to stop playing. I played more than 12 hrs that first day trying to recover. little did I know I was just sinking myself further. I am now at the bottom of the barrel, playing against clueless ppl and newbies. I am stuck there forever, and my pvp gaming experience is ruined forever, as I cannot get out of 1st tier emerald, because on the final pip I am matched against organized teams, while my solo q teammates from amber stand around 1v1ing mid map. Time wont sort this out or heal it. There is no way to recover from the damage done, and my gaming exp has been ruined (along w/ my ability to ever play a decent player again). After about 600 games or more played this new season since that 1st day, I am still at tier 1 emerald (where I was driven that day by organized pro teams). You just don’t understand the damage done.

The pros are enjoying their league match-ups off of my back. I am “carrying” newbies by spending 10 hrs a day “teaching them” how to play spvp. Wanna watch that on twitch?

The Ultimate Answer to Season 2

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

I think you are mixing MMR and PIPS. For season 2, MMR is being ignored and you are instead being matched with others who are at a similar PIP level as you.

In the PIP model, you can have a newcomer to ranked being matched with a pro league player at the beginning of the season. That’s the cause of the issues. It will eventually get better, but the beginning is painful.

S2 From a High-Level Player's View

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

I spend 10 hrs a day trying to grind out of the emerald tier the pro leagues all sank me to that first day.

Nice the pros are getting victories and enjoying their pvp experience and exchange warm wishes and gloat, and discuss how the system has been good to the esports players.

However, the pros all got their organized victories off the backs of players like me.

It would have been nice if someone would have warned me that 1st day that a slew of organized and coordinated pro teams on ts w/set stacked builds, were going to stomp and trounce their way thru innocent players like me who, as usual, pushed the solo q hot join button that first day. I played all day and didn’t know/realize that mmr was formulated so that losses would beget more losses and I should stop playing when I hit a losing streak. As a solo quer, I got teamed with other random teammates with whom it was literally impossible to coordinate/communicate.

Hardly a level playing field.

While I can appreciate the pros all had an agenda, and their goals/feats and esports concerns were significantly more important than my hardcore casual player interests, I am stuck at emerald, where the pros all drove me down to that first day, and I am now stuck forever because of the mmr coding (unless I get organized help from 2 or more pre-made “teammates”). I am now playing 10 hrs a day against ambers who do not know how to pvp at all. All I do now in pvp is try to teach people strategy, all day long, in the hopes I can get a random team that will win one. Not gonna happen. And the toxic responses from the high scorers of the lost matches (you know, players who do most damage but never cap, etc) is nothing less than soul draining. So usually, I just stop talking altogether and give up and ride the magic loss wave endlessly around in a loop.

My play experience has been ruined. Hope the backpiece is worth it. Just sayin – you might want to think about what you all are doing, and at what cost to others.

Why did not a single elite player warn solo players that first day to not push that solo hotjoin button that first day as the pro leagues blew thru the system on their way to their playing field, as the consequences of doing so has ruined my entire ranked spvp gameplay forever.

Want to come watch me teach newbs how to play pvp on twitch all day? Didn’t think so.

First Legendary PvP Backpiece?_?

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

I spend 10 hrs a day trying to grind out of the emerald tier the pro leagues all sank me to that first day, when I was also playing for about 12 hrs. Nice the pros are getting backpieces (which, incidentally, I am not covetous of, I don’t even want one), and now exchange warm wishes and gloat about it.

However, the pros all got their organized victories off the backs of players like me. It would have been nice if someone would have warned me that 1st day that a bunch of pro teams, organized and coordinated pro leagues on ts w/set stacked builds, were going to stomp and trounce their way thru innocent, ignorant players like me who, as usual, pushed the solo q hot join button that first day and got teamed with teams composed of other randoms for whom it was literally impossible to coordinate or communicate with. Hardly a level playing field.

While I can appreciate the pros all had an agenda, and your own goals/feats and esports concerns that you felt were significantly more important than my stupid little hardcore casual player interests, I might remind you all now, that I am stuck at emerald, where you all drove me down to that first day, and I am now stuck forever because of the mmr coding (unless I get organized help from 2 or more pre-made “teammates”) ankitten ow playing 10 hrs a day, literally against ambers who do not know how to pvp at all. All I do now in pvp is try to teach people strategy, all day long, in the hopes I can get a random team that will win one. Not gonna happen. And the toxic responses from the high scorers of the lost matches (you know, players who do the most damage but never cap, etc) is nothing less than soul draining. So usually, after about 4 hours, I just stop talking altogether and give up and ride the magic loss wave endlessly around in a loop.

My play experience has been ruined. Hope the backpiece is worth it. Just sayin – you might want to think about what you all are doing, and at what cost to others. Why did not a single elite player warn solo players that first day to not push that solo hotjoin button that first day as the pro leagues blew thru the system on their way to their playing field, as the consequences of doing so has ruined my entire ranked spvp gameplay forever.

But yah, hey Marvin, grats to you. Want to come watch me teach newbs how to play pvp on twitch all day? Didn’t think so.

First Legendary PvP Backpiece?_?

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

Congrats, Marvin! And what the hell, Java already no-lifed his way to legend…

Yah IKR. I spent 2 hours per day playing and I already feel it’s too much. He’s too.. devoted xD

First Legendary PvP Backpiece?_?

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

How nice for you. Congratulations! I truly mean that. Sort of.

I must admit, I am somewhat conflicted. I have been contacted a lot, both by mean trolls (I know, I suck) and kind souls and also by people who understand the system is defective and punishing to solo que players. I would like to share with you my experience, which I am sure is quite a bit different that yours, as you enjoy your backpiece (which btw I don’t want myself or care about for me) and your enjoyment/confidence about your placement in the leagues.

Recently, I took the advice of many and made a free alt char on a HoT account and immediately went into spvp. In one day, I am in sapphire, caught on the winning side tide. How is this possible? How can I be a sapphire player on one account in one day on an alt char playing the same exact build as I did on day one with my main but be stuck at 1st tier emerald on my main. What’s the difference? How is this possible? Did my skill really improve dramatically in 6 days (despite the fact that I purportedly suck on my other character after nearly 3 years of pvping on it). The only difference I see is the playing field. There is a point to this post, and it is apt and on point to your posting of your victory achievement.

I would point out to every naysayer out there, the system is flawed and abusively punishing – not against skilled/non-skilled players but against losing players.

I would like to remind everyone you can lose for any reason, sometimes your fault, but sometimes totally beyond your control (lag, dc, etc) and sometimes the fault of your teammates who might be close to you in rank when first joined for whatever reason (such as they don’t play much or they advanced in seas 1 for unscrupulous reasons or whatever), but whom are unskilled or simply pvp inexperienced as to strategy, hidey holes (to avoid fire), rez skills, etc. etc. Sometimes these people think being the high scorer makes them skilled at pvp, and you can never convince them otherwise.

Believe me, as it should be patently obvious to everyone by now, I scrutinize my own play pretty harshly. If I have screwed up, I am the first to admit it and attempt to correct it. I play because I like strong competition. It is the best part of the game.

However, I would like to remind people of a few facts:

1) I play a lot. Yes a lot. I mean really a lot.

2) On day 1 I played a lot. On day 1 there were numerous factors present that day, all day, that are not so prevalent in spvp currently (and for that matter, since the day after until currently). For example – there were many people playing that day who still thought it was a good idea to lose a bunch of games since they thought, since they hadn’t bothered to read patch notes or forums, that it was still a good idea for them to not play as much as would normally be expected in a true competition, like as in afk or faux type play which was somewhat prevalent in seas 1.

Another example – many people solo qued that first day, including myself, and we were often matched in teams consisting of all other solo players or some duos, many of whom, while presumably good or average players, may not have been playing meta builds or may have been weaker classes (mes, war, etc) and all of whom were definitely not on ts. Unfortunately these random solo teams were inexplicably pitted against 4 man pre-made teams from the pro-leagues with set/gimmicky op builds, ts, rerolls and stomp tactics. Many of these games ended in 500 to 20 losses etc.

Because I played a lot that day, I encountered it a lot that day. What is to be done in that situation? What should I have done differently against a premade team on ts w/ coordinated builds? Especially when most of us were surprised that was being allowed. Were these pro players better? I honestly cannot say – presumably because we got trounced I would assume so. But honestly, how would I know for sure? It was hardly fair. We were hardly on a level playing field. No, not because of skill (though I presume they are all better), but because we were not coordinated. We were not on ts. We did not have set builds with set strategic coordinated pounce tactics. So consequently, as much as I would like to listen to the elite pvpers, it was off of my back that they breezed thru the first day of pvp and rose in ranks quickly.

By contrast, in addition to being matched w/ potentially less skilled players, the fact that many of us got trounced that day by pros, which was intended because seas 2 was designed to push the pros to the top quickly and reduce their wait times for matches and to quickly get a little bigger pool of potential players for them in diamond or up, it was done at my expense, and the expense of others like me. My mmr was driven into the ground, and rapidly. Was it my fault? Am I a bad player? I don’t even know anymore. I thought I was good. Now I am at the bottom because my mmr was tanked at the end of day one.

3) Once your mmr slips below a magic number (presumably 49% win/loss which is probably a losing streak of about 20 games give or take) the coding mechanisms kick in. The fallacy here is that the software coding actually takes into account certain variables to determine your individual skill. But that is not the case. The only thing it takes into account is win/lose. You’re either a winner or a loser. If a loser, and loser enough (for whatever reason) you will get stuck. If a winner, you will win, until finally you plateau, and you begin to lose, and then you are a loser, and then you get stuck. The sad fact is, many people who were eager to play the first day, who played a lot, were subjected to play that is not present in the matchups today. The pros are already out of there. And they are out of there because of me and others like me. Their wins are represented by my losses. These are pros on coordinated teams with ts. Why didn’t someone warn me not to press the hotjoin/solo q button that first day? Why didn’t someone warn me that if I did that, the one game I love, and the one activity I loved the best in the game, would be ruined for me forever.

4) Once you have lost enough games, you will keep getting matched with poorer and poorer players. Since I did a tremendous amount of playing that first day, I kept encountering numerous variables that had nothing to do with my skill. Try as I might, and play as hard as I might, I couldn’t convince people to not go afk, I couldn’t control lag, I couldn’t beg pro leagues to not stomp us. Is it my fault? Everyone keeps telling me it is. I get it, I suck. In any event, I made it to emerald, but couldn’t make it past that because of an unfortunate losing streak. Now, because the deck is stacked against me, since the coding intends for me to lose 66% of the time, and since I am paired with poor or new players, I am forced to play in a continuous loop of losses with a couple of spikes of wins.

5) One person, no matter how skilled, cannot carry a whole team. One person, no matter how skilled, cannot coordinate with random people to effectuate strategy, especially if against legendaries on ts.

6) Contrary to what so many people assert and believe, your mmr is not calculated based on your skill. It is only based, for you, on your wins/losses experienced by your entire team. Does it mean if you lost a game, or a whole series of games, that you lost because of you? Possibly. Does it always mean that? Possibly. However, equally possible is the fact that you yourself experienced a loss which might have been due to player #3 one game, player #4 the next game, pro elite opposition next game, afker next game, lag or dc next game, your fault next game, close game/good game next game which you lose, player #2’s fault next game, etc. You get the point. Its your win/loss ratio that is being evaluated and only that. It is not your personal skill, kitten many people have suggested and insist (presumably because they are still riding the win wave).

7) Teams in sapphire or ruby do not want to “carry” me to a win to raise my mmr. They do not want to jeopardize their mmr or have a loss. Perhaps there is a kind pro team of 4 willing to do this for me, especially since they blitzed thru day 1 lower tiers off of my back (and the backs of my teammates). Most of my teammates have quit. I am still hanging in, tho I am feeling very demoralized and sad that I have lost a game and activity I love, and if these elite players are so confident and happy with their skills and play, I would really appreciate it if they would step up to the plate and offer to help me out. What could it hurt them? They have already gotten where they want to be because of people like me. Where is their conscience? Where is their benevolence?

So that is why I think my experience may have been different from many others. I know that quite a few hardcore players that were playing that first day quit the game in disgust. I watched some guy in Lions Arch giving all of his stuff away. I will probably go out the same way, though people are telling me to hang in, to play on my alt, and to wait it out until seas 3, when hopefully I wont continue to be penalized for what has happened. As it now stands, I will never claw my way out of emerald 1st tier, earned that first day and on which I suffered my losing streak which brought me below 49%. I have since played the same meta reaper/meta rev/dh builds for 6 days straight for 10 hrs or more a day, and without help, it cannot be done. Am I that poor a player? Is anyone this bad a player? I am currently probably at around 200 games lost and about 20 wins (about a 10% win rate, which appears to be pretty equivalent to most of those in the “loss” cycle.) My alt would suggest otherwise. My experiences thus far with playing with others would suggest not (many I have played with or against have been quite supportive of my skill and have told me I am a good player, and I have not solicited their input).

So decide for yourself whatever you want to think, just as I am grappling with my decision whether to quit gw after 14 yrs or not. In the meantime, I welcome any top tier players to help me out. That is my point here. I welcome the invitation to “carry” me up and out of 1st tier emerald. You just might find out, I am really not that bad. Or perhaps I will find I am. Either way, I don’t see it as a risk to anyone, just a small investiture of some time and some kindness.

Thank you for considering it. And grats on your wins/achievements.

Unhappy/Confused about Matchmaking

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

I have been contacted a lot, both by mean trolls (I know, I suck) and kind souls and also by people who understand the system is defective and punishing to solo que players. So I will address what you have stated above madvisions in your effort to not be unkind.

I took the advice of many and made a free alt char on a HoT account and immediately went into spvp. In one day, I am in sapphire, caught on the winning side tide. How is this possible? How can I be a sapphire player on one account in one day on an alt char playing the same exact build as I did on day one with my main. What’s the difference? How is this possible? Did my skill really improve dramatically in 6 days (despite the fact that I purportedly suck on my other character after nearly 3 years of pvping on it). The only difference I see is the playing field.

I would point out to every naysayer out there, the system is flawed and abusively punishing – not against skilled/non-skilled players but against losing players.

I would like to remind everyone you can lose for any reason, sometimes your fault, but sometimes totally beyond your control (lag, dc, etc) and sometimes the fault of your teammates who might be close to you in rank when first joined for whatever reason (such as they don’t play much or they advanced in seas 1 for unscrupulous reasons or whatever), but whom are unskilled or simply pvp inexperienced as to strategy, hidey holes (to avoid fire), rez skills, etc. etc. Sometimes these people think being the high scorer makes them skilled at pvp, and you can never convince them otherwise.

Believe me, as it should be patently obvious to everyone by now, I scrutinize my own play pretty harshly. If I have screwed up, I am the first to admit it and attempt to correct it. I play because I like strong competition. It is the best part of the game.

However, I would like to remind people of a few facts:

1) I play a lot. Yes a lot. I mean really a lot.

2) On day 1 I played a lot. On day 1 there were numerous factors present that day, all day, that are not so prevalent in spvp currently (and for that matter, since the day after until currently). For example – there were many people playing that day who still thought it was a good idea to lose a bunch of games since they thought, since they hadn’t bothered to read patch notes or forums, that it was still a good idea for them to not play as much as would normally be expected in a true competition, like as in afk or faux type play which was somewhat prevalent in seas 1.

Another example – many people solo qued that first day, including myself, and we were often matched in teams consisting of all other solo players or some duos, many of whom, while presumably good or average players, may not have been playing meta builds or may have been weaker classes (mes, war, etc) and all of whom were definitely not on ts. Unfortunately these random solo teams were inexplicably pitted against 4 man pre-made teams from the pro-leagues with set/gimmicky op builds, ts, rerolls and stomp tactics. Many of these games ended in 500 to 20 losses etc.

Because I played a lot that day, I encountered it a lot that day. What is to be done in that situation? What should I have done differently against a premade team on ts w/ coordinated builds? Especially when most of us were surprised that was being allowed. Were these pro players better? I honestly cannot say – presumably because we got trounced I would assume so. But honestly, how would I know for sure? It was hardly fair. We were hardly on a level playing field. No, not because of skill (though I presume they are all better), but because we were not coordinated. We were not on ts. We did not have set builds with set strategic coordinated pounce tactics. So consequently, as much as I would like to listen to the elite pvpers, it was off of my back that they breezed thru the first day of pvp and rose in ranks quickly.

By contrast, in addition to being matched w/ potentially less skilled players, the fact that many of us got trounced that day by pros, which was intended because seas 2 was designed to push the pros to the top quickly and reduce their wait times for matches and to quickly get a little bigger pool of potential players for them in diamond or up, it was done at my expense, and the expense of others like me. My mmr was driven into the ground, and rapidly. Was it my fault? Am I a bad player? I don’t even know anymore. I thought I was good. Now I am at the bottom because my mmr was tanked at the end of day one.

3) Once your mmr slips below a magic number (presumably 49% win/loss which is probably a losing streak of about 20 games give or take) the coding mechanisms kick in. The fallacy here is that the software coding actually takes into account certain variables to determine your individual skill. But that is not the case. The only thing it takes into account is win/lose. You’re either a winner or a loser. If a loser, and loser enough (for whatever reason) you will get stuck. If a winner, you will win, until finally you plateau, and you begin to lose, and then you are a loser, and then you get stuck. The sad fact is, many people who were eager to play the first day, who played a lot, were subjected to play that is not present in the matchups today. The pros are already out of there. And they are out of there because of me and others like me. Their wins are represented by my losses. These are pros on coordinated teams with ts. Why didn’t someone warn me not to press the hotjoin/solo q button that first day? Why didn’t someone warn me that if I did that, the one game I love, and the one activity I loved the best in the game, would be ruined for me forever.

4) Once you have lost enough games, you will keep getting matched with poorer and poorer players. Since I did a tremendous amount of playing that first day, I kept encountering numerous variables that had nothing to do with my skill. Try as I might, and play as hard as I might, I couldn’t convince people to not go afk, I couldn’t control lag, I couldn’t beg pro leagues to not stomp us. Is it my fault? Everyone keeps telling me it is. I get it, I suck. In any event, I made it to emerald, but couldn’t make it past that because of an unfortunate losing streak. Now, because the deck is stacked against me, since the coding intends for me to lose 66% of the time, and since I am paired with poor or new players, I am forced to play in a continuous loop of losses with a couple of spikes of wins.

5) One person, no matter how skilled, cannot carry a whole team. One person, no matter how skilled, cannot coordinate with random people to effectuate strategy, especially if against legendaries on ts.

6) Contrary to what so many people assert and believe, your mmr is not calculated based on your skill. It is only based, for you, on your wins/losses experienced by your entire team. Does it mean if you lost a game, or a whole series of games, that you lost because of you? Possibly. Does it always mean that? Possibly. However, equally possible is the fact that you yourself experienced a loss which might have been due to player #3 one game, player #4 the next game, pro elite opposition next game, afker next game, lag or dc next game, your fault next game, close game/good game next game which you lose, player #2’s fault next game, etc. You get the point. Its your win/loss ratio that is being evaluated and only that. It is not your personal skill, kitten many people have suggested and insist (presumably because they are still riding the win wave).

7) Teams in sapphire or ruby do not want to “carry” me to a win to raise my mmr. They do not want to jeopardize their mmr or have a loss. Perhaps there is a kind pro team of 4 willing to do this for me, especially since they blitzed thru day 1 lower tiers off of my back (and the backs of my teammates). Most of my teammates have quit. I am still hanging in, tho I am feeling very demoralized and sad that I have lost a game and activity I love, and if these elite players are so confident and happy with their skills and play, I would really appreciate it if they would step up to the plate and offer to help me out. What could it hurt them? They have already gotten where they want to be because of people like me. Where is their conscience? Where is their benevolence?

So that is why I think my experience may have been different from many others. I know that quite a few hardcore players that were playing that first day quit the game in disgust. I watched some guy in Lions Arch giving all of his stuff away. I will probably go out the same way, though people are telling me to hang in, to play on my alt, and to wait it out until seas 3, when hopefully I wont continue to be penalized for what has happened. As it now stands, I will never claw my way out of emerald 1st tier, earned that first day and on which I suffered my losing streak which brought me below 49%. I have since played the same meta reaper/meta rev/dh builds for 6 days straight for 10 hrs or more a day, and without help, it cannot be done. Am I that poor a player? Is anyone this bad a player? I am currently probably at around 200 games lost and about 20 wins (about a 10% win rate, which appears to be pretty equivalent to most of those in the “loss” cycle.) My alt would suggest otherwise. My experiences thus far with playing with others would suggest not (many I have played with or against have been quite supportive of my skill and have told me I am a good player, and I have not solicited their input).

So decide for yourself whatever you want to think, just as I am grappling with my decision whether to quit gw after 14 yrs or not. In the meantime, I welcome any top tier players to help me out. You just might find out, I am really not that bad. Or perhaps I will find I am. Either way, I don’t see it as a risk to anyone, just a small investiture of some time and some kindness.

Unhappy/Confused about Matchmaking

in PvP

Posted by: Eater of Peeps.9062

Eater of Peeps.9062

Right now I maybe have 1 win per 3-5 matches.

It’s not fun to non-stop lose…
It’s not fun to play unfair matches if you had 55% win ratio in previous season.
It’s not fun to hear that you have to keep losing until your mmr or matchmaking will be balanced.

Game has no point of playing or buying if it don’t give any type of fun or satisfaction for your effort.

For now as casual i can say that playing ranked is waste of time and a lot players will say the same. I love pvp but many ppl will just quit.

I am really Astonished. really…. i’ve read dozens of post like this at this point. and i feel really sorry and bad for seeing players actually quit becouse of a system i’ve beed waiting since long long time.
I am just screaching my head atm…. what to say to stay constructive, help and meanwhyle dont hurt anyones feelings.

so. Back in time when i started pvp i havnt even touched ranked for a long time. i was thinking like: hmm ranked.. ranked means competition in every game and obviously i can feel i’m a beginner so lets get better and mby then i can show off some ranks later. Imo i’ve hit the 1k unrankeds way before i even started to think about ranked.

The thing is that the newly implemented MM algorythm NO LONGER supports grinding based progression like the previous ones. This means that progression is enchanced by the skill level of an individual and not the bare will to progress. League system was implemented to indicate one’s mad haxor PvP skills with a tiny icon next to his/her name so everyone can see how big his E-PENlS is. Now, becouse the smurfing and abusing has been (mostly)fixed and the league is skill based, a mediocre random player can no longer have the same E-PENlS icon as an ESL player at least not as fast.
To get to the point. If someone is enduring a humilating 15lose streak or barely reaches 20% winning in this season should ask himself: “Am I prepared to play the most competitive part of the game? maybe not. Maybe wanting to be faster ranked up than way better players than me is a bit eager behaviour… Mby i should go practice a bit more so i can later suprise everyone with how good i am!”