Guild Wars 2

MadVisions.4529:

Mr Godlike.6098:

Right now I maybe have 1 win per 3-5 matches.

It’s not fun to non-stop lose…
It’s not fun to play unfair matches if you had 55% win ratio in previous season.
It’s not fun to hear that you have to keep losing until your mmr or matchmaking will be balanced.

Game has no point of playing or buying if it don’t give any type of fun or satisfaction for your effort.

For now as casual i can say that playing ranked is waste of time and a lot players will say the same. I love pvp but many ppl will just quit.

I am really Astonished. really…. i’ve read dozens of post like this at this point. and i feel really sorry and bad for seeing players actually quit becouse of a system i’ve beed waiting since long long time.
I am just screaching my head atm…. what to say to stay constructive, help and meanwhyle dont hurt anyones feelings.

so. Back in time when i started pvp i havnt even touched ranked for a long time. i was thinking like: hmm ranked.. ranked means competition in every game and obviously i can feel i’m a beginner so lets get better and mby then i can show off some ranks later. Imo i’ve hit the 1k unrankeds way before i even started to think about ranked.

The thing is that the newly implemented MM algorythm NO LONGER supports grinding based progression like the previous ones. This means that progression is enchanced by the skill level of an individual and not the bare will to progress. League system was implemented to indicate one’s mad haxor PvP skills with a tiny icon next to his/her name so everyone can see how big his E-PENlS is. Now, becouse the smurfing and abusing has been (mostly)fixed and the league is skill based, a mediocre random player can no longer have the same E-PENlS icon as an ESL player at least not as fast.
To get to the point. If someone is enduring a humilating 15lose streak or barely reaches 20% winning in this season should ask himself: “Am I prepared to play the most competitive part of the game? maybe not. Maybe wanting to be faster ranked up than way better players than me is a bit eager behaviour… Mby i should go practice a bit more so i can later suprise everyone with how good i am!”

I would definitely be interested in this. I have been contacted a lot, both by mean trolls (I know, I suck) and kind souls and also by people who understand the system is defective and punishing to solo que players.

I took the advice of many and made a free alt char on a HoT account. I immediately went into spvp. In one day, I am in sapphire, caught on the winning side tide. How is this possible? I can I be a sapphire player on one account in one day on an alt char playing the same exact build as I did on day one. What’s the difference? How is this possible? Did my skill really improve dramatically in 6 days (despite the fact that I purportedly suck on my other character after nearly 3 years of pvping on it). The only difference I see is the playing field.

I would point out to every naysayer out there, the system is flawed and abusively punishing – not against skilled/non-skilled players but against losing players.

I would like to remind everyone you can lose for any reason, sometimes your fault, but sometimes totally beyond your control (lag, dc, etc) and sometimes the fault of your teammates who might be close to you in rank when first joined for whatever reason (such as they don’t play much or they advanced in seas 1 for unscrupulous reasons or whatever), but whom are unskilled or simply pvp inexperienced as to strategy, hidey holes (to avoid fire), rez skills, etc. etc. Sometimes these people think being the high scorer makes them skilled at pvp, and you can never convince them otherwise.

Believe me, as it should be patently obvious to everyone by now, I scrutinize my own play pretty harshly. If I have screwed up, I am the first to admit it and attempt to correct it. I play because I like strong competition. It is the best part of the game.

However, I would like to remind people of a few facts:

1) I play a lot. Yes a lot. I mean really a lot.

2) On day 1 I played a lot. On day 1 there were numerous factors present that day, all day, that are not so prevalent in spvp currently (and for that matter, since the day after until currently). For example – there were many people playing that day who still thought it was a good idea to lose a bunch of games since they thought, since they hadn’t bothered to read patch notes or forums, that it was still a good idea for them to not play as much as would normally be expected in a true competition, like as in afk or faux type play which was somewhat prevalent in seas 1.

Another example – many people solo qued that first day, including myself, and we were often matched in teams consisting of all other solo players or some duos, many of whom, while presumably good or average players, may not have been playing meta builds or may have been weaker classes (mes, war, etc) and all of whom were definitely not on ts. Unfortunately these random solo teams were inexplicably pitted against 4 man pre-made teams from the pro-leagues with set/gimmicky op builds, ts, rerolls and stomp tactics. Many of these games ended in 500 to 20 losses etc.

Because I played a lot that day, I encountered it a lot that day. What is to be done in that situation? What should I have done differently against a premade team on ts w/ coordinated builds? Especially when most of us were surprised that was being allowed. Were these pro players better? I honestly cannot say – presumably because we got trounced I would assume so. But honestly, how would I know for sure? It was hardly fair. We were hardly on a level playing field. No, not because of skill (though I presume they are all better), but because we were not coordinated. We were not on ts. We did not have set builds with set strategic coordinated pounce tactics. So consequently, as much as I would like to listen to the elite pvpers, it was off of my back that they breezed thru the first day of pvp and rose in ranks quickly.

By contrast, in addition to being matched w/ potentially less skilled players, the fact that many of us got trounced that day by pros, which was intended because seas 2 was designed to push the pros to the top quickly and reduce their wait times for matches and to quickly get a little bigger pool of potential players for them in diamond or up, it was done at my expense, and the expense of others like me. My mmr was driven into the ground, and rapidly. Was it my fault? Am I a bad player? I don’t even know anymore. I thought I was good. Now I am at the bottom because my mmr was tanked at the end of day one.

3) Once your mmr slips below a magic number (presumably 49% win/loss which is probably a losing streak of about 20 games give or take) the coding mechanisms kick in. The fallacy here is that the software coding actually takes into account certain variables to determine your individual skill. But that is not the case. The only thing it takes into account is win/lose. You’re either a winner or a loser. If a loser, and loser enough (for whatever reason) you will get stuck. If a winner, you will win, until finally you plateau, and you begin to lose, and then you are a loser, and then you get stuck. The sad fact is, many people who were eager to play the first day, who played a lot, were subjected to play that is not present in the matchups today. The pros are already out of there. And they are out of there because of me. Their wins are represented by my losses. Why didn’t someone warn me not to press the hotjoin/solo q button? Why didn’t someone warn me that if I did that, the one game I love, and the one activity I loved the best in the game, would be ruined for me forever.

4) Once you have lost enough games, you will keep getting matched with poorer and poorer players. Since I did a tremendous amount of playing that first day, I kept encountering numerous variables that had nothing to do with my skill. Try as I might, and play as hard as I might, I couldn’t convince people to not go afk, I couldn’t control lag, I couldn’t beg pro leagues to not stomp us. Is it my fault? Everyone keeps telling me it is. I get it, I suck. In any event, I made it to emerald, but couldn’t make it past that. Now, because the deck is stacked against me, since the coding intends for me to lose 66% of the time, and since I am paired with poor or new players, I am forced to play in a continuous loop of losses with a couple of spikes of wins.

5) One person, no matter how skilled, cannot carry a whole team. One person, no matter how skilled, cannot coordinate with random people to effectuate strategy, especially if against legendaries on ts.

6) Your mmr is not calculated based on your skill. It is only based on your wins/losses of your entire team. Does it mean if you lost that you lost because of you? Possibly. Does it always mean that? Possibly. However, equally possible is the fact that it might have been due to player #3 one game, player #4 the next game, pro elite opposition next game, afker next game, lag or dc next game, your fault next game, close game/good game next game which you lose, player #2’s fault next game, etc. You get the point. Its your win/loss ratio that is being evaluated and only that. It is not your personal skill, kitten many people have suggested and insist (presumably because they are still riding the win wave).

7) Teams in sapphire or ruby do not want to “carry” me to a win to raise my mmr. They do not want to jeopardize their mmr or have a loss. Perhaps there is a kind pro team of 4 willing to do this for me, especially since they blitzed thru day 1 lower tiers off of my back (and the backs of my teammates). Most of my teammates have quit. I am still hanging in, tho I am feeling very demoralized and sad that I have lost a game and activity I love, and if these elite players are so confident and happy with their skills and play, I would really appreciate it if they would step up to the plate and offer to help me out. What could it hurt them? They have already gotten where they want to be because of people like me. Where is their conscience? Where is their benevolence?

So that is why I think my experience may have been different from many others. I know that quite a few hardcore players that were playing that first day quit the game in disgust. I watched some guy in Lions Arch giving all of his stuff away. I will probably go out the same way, though people are telling me to hang in, to play on my alt, and to wait it out until seas 3, when hopefully I wont continue to be penalized for what has happened. As it now stands, I will never claw my way out of emerald 1st day. I played it for 6 days straight for 10 hrs or more a day, and without help, it cannot be done. Am I that poor a player? My alt would suggest otherwise. My experiences thus far with playing with others would suggest not (many I have played with or against have been quite supportive of my skill and have told me I am a good player, and I have not solicited their input).

So decide for yourself whatever you want to think, just as I am grappling with my decision whether to quit gw after 14 yrs or not. In the meantime, I welcome any top tier players to help me out. You just might find out, I am really not that bad. Or perhaps I will find I am. Either way, I don’t see it as a risk to anyone, just a small investiture of some time and some kindness.

masterfoo.6320:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

I have asked people, and begged people to carry me. I have looked for teams willing to pair up. No one is willing to risk a downward adjustment in mmr for any reason.

So, seeking a team is out. Since the game is coded for me to win only 33% of the time, and my mmr is now so low that I am in the game with people brand new to pvping, my experiencing pvping is beyond frustrating.

So I actually have a very similar perspective of Zuko, and happen to be a member of one of the teams in the top 10 NA currently, on my main account. I have taken advantage of sales on HoT, and have two extra accounts, of which are already ranked up once or twice, but aren’t high sapphire like my main. On my alt accounts I have found that my w/l ratio has stayed very similar (nearly undefeated), even queuing with clearly non-meta classes, such as kill-shot warrior and etc. Not to brag about personal skill, but my perception is that with a little bit of communication and queuing with some decent players, anyone can get out of terrible losing streaks.

In fact, I am considering starting a guild where we specifically recruit both losing streak players, and other decent pvpers who are willing to help. Let me know what you think! Feel free to pm, mail, or whisper me if anyone is interested.

Well, at least Ive stopped crying in real life. Its been hard to accept that I wont be playing GW anymore. I am now accepting that I cannot escape tier one of emerald. I am doomed to be there forever, because I played a lot early on and due to unfortunate circumstances (like getting trounced in my solo que by organized/ts/rerolling/meta pro league) and other unfortunate teammate garbage I am now stuck at the bottom with no way up or out.

I have asked people, and begged people to carry me. I have looked for teams willing to pair up. No one is willing to risk a downward adjustment in mmr for any reason.

So, seeking a team is out. Since the game is coded for me to win only 33% of the time, and my mmr is now so low that I am in the game with people brand new to pvping, my experiencing pvping is beyond frustrating.

Be clear. I primarily love to play pvp only for the strong competition. I do not like coaching noobs, teaching strategy, just like the rest of you riding your 66% winning streaks (yes the game is coded for you to win 66% of the time) – you don’t want to carry people. Yet I have to do that with the bottom players all day long. I don’t care about a backpiece – I don’t want it.

Many people think I belong where I am. I disagree. But more importantly, there is no way up or out if you cant get a team. People are getting stuck in different divisions (lucky then to be stuck in sapphire or ruby cuz at least there the players are somewhat decent). I did group up with a sapphire team who begged me to stay with them after 2 losses, because they admitted I was better than all of them who were in sapphire division.

I am tired now. The game has been ruined for me. I am not going to slog away at the bottom forever, with no hope of it ever changing, cuz I win two, and immediately lose 3 cuz of pairings caused by coding mechanics combined with absolutely clueless players.

So, you can all say what you want. Think whatever you want.

I just want to say I will be giving my stuff away – I have tons of materials, gold etc. I want to be nice to the players who play gw. I have always loved this game. I am a nice person and am an honest, good player with integrity and skill.

I will be giving my stuff away, probably this weekend. After 14 years, Im sorry to go, but I wont play at a frustrating bottom level forever where I cant get out of it and no one will help.

If there is anyone out there, before this weekend, who would like to offer help to carry me, I would greatly appreciate it, as I don’t really want to quit. I love GW. I loved pvping. I am sure anet didn’t really want this disaster (and all of you with your winning streaks who think how great it is – whatever).

I will freely admit it for all of you skeptics and smug people as well. I suck I admit it. I truly mean it. I suck. I am terrible. You will be risking a ding to your mmr if you help me.

Please help me. I am begging. That’s what people on these forums tell you to do. I am doing. I am terrible. Really awful. I have been practicing pvping for 14 years on GW so Im probably not going to improve. But at least if someone carries me to sapphire, if I suck, I would know it, cuz I would continue to play, and I would drop down in mmr, and I would be no threat to anyone next season.

I am looking for any kind souls who have a good team, willing to help craptastic me move up artificially. If not, please hang out this weekend in the lobby. Free stuff for everyone. And then you can all have the joy of not listening to me anymore.

Lol. You obviously have not yet hit your losing streak. You don’t understand the coding mechanics.

If, by any chance, you hit a losing streak, either because you are not as good as you think you are, or you have met your top limit match, or your teammates dc due to lag/power failure/work gotta go, etc., or they are afk (like if you get a stomp after first cap and score is 50 v 10 and they think you cant recover so they go afk), or your teammates are new and don’t play much so they are not actually as good as you are but they have a higher mmr cuz they never play and they actually don’t have any idea how to play or win, or they think if they score the most points in the game or kill the most people that is the point so they don’t suck, even though you lost, or you lost and its only one game right? Well you get the idea. It could also be that you get stomped by a pro team, tho mostly they have moved on and that only happened to the unfortunate few who jumped on the bandwagon early on and played alot.

Here’s my advice: Just don’t let your mmr win/loss drop below 50% – that’s when the bad stuff happens. That’s usually a 10 game losing streak. It might be because you’ve hit your skill limit. But it might not be (as in examples above).

Remember, your personal mmr is not calculated only using your own skill level, it is also reflective of every single teammate you played with in every game. If you lost because of a bad player on your team, or some unfortunate occurrence like lag or dc, well then, you lose, and that adjusts your personal mmr down. Have you met your true skill level match? Maybe. Maybe not.

However, once you get about a 10 game losing streak, for whatever reasons, and your mmr or win/loss ratio drops below the magic 50% range, the game is coded so that you will only win 33% of the time, and your opponents are coded to win (those on a winning streak) 66% of the time. So pray it doesn’t happen to you.

People are getting stuck at different levels. Well, is that reflective of their skill level? Maybe. Maybe not. But once stuck, that’s it. You’re basically there forever.

So good luck. Ride your win wave as long as you can. But watch out, cuz its coming at you.

Lol. You obviously have not yet hit your losing streak. You don’t understand the coding mechanics.

If, by any chance, you hit a losing streak, either because you are not as good as you think you are, or you have met your top limit match, or your teammates dc due to lag/power failure/work gotta go, etc., or they are afk (like if you get a stomp after first cap and score is 50 v 10 and they think you cant recover so they go afk), or your teammates are new and don’t play much so they are not actually as good as you are but they have a higher mmr cuz they never play and they actually don’t have any idea how to play or win, or they think if they score the most points in the game or kill the most people that is the point so they don’t suck, even though you lost, or you lost and its only one game right? Well you get the idea. It could also be that you get stomped by a pro team, tho mostly they have moved on and that only happened to the unfortunate few who jumped on the bandwagon early on and played alot.

Here’s my advice: Just don’t let your mmr win/loss drop below 50% – that’s when the bad stuff happens. That’s usually a 10 game losing streak. It might be because you’ve hit your skill limit. But it might not be (as in examples above).

Remember, your personal mmr is not calculated only using your own skill level, it is also reflective of every single teammate you played with in every game. If you lost because of a bad player on your team, or some unfortunate occurrence like lag or dc, well then, you lose, and that adjusts your personal mmr down. Have you met your true skill level match? Maybe. Maybe not.

However, once you get about a 10 game losing streak, for whatever reasons, and your mmr or win/loss ratio drops below the magic 50% range, the game is coded so that you will only win 33% of the time, and your opponents are coded to win (those on a winning streak) 66% of the time. So pray it doesn’t happen to you.

People are getting stuck at different levels. Well, is that reflective of their skill level? Maybe. Maybe not. But once stuck, that’s it. You’re basically there forever.

So good luck. Ride your win wave as long as you can. But watch out, cuz its coming at you.

Phil.8901:

Start from facts:

I don’t hear any good player complaining. They have short queue, they win, they have win streak and they go up. They’ll reach quicker the higher division. And this is good because best players deserve to be in the higher divisions.

I hear a lot of complaining from other players category. Basically the reason is always the same, I get matched with bad player qq I can’t carry them, I’ll quit GW2, GW2 matchmaking is terrible, etc. etc. I’m pretty sure this category of players do always the same mistakes like other players they like to blame.

If I’m wrong just record some “cantcarrythem” games and upload them on youtube and we really see if it’s only your team mates fault or there is “something else”.

The truth is that this matchamking is showing what is your real level and it’s saying “dude, you’re not good enough to carry enough games to go out from amber or emerald. You need to improve”

That’s all, some bad game can happen to everyone but if you are in a super long loss streak well I’m sorry but it’s not only a matchmaking fault.

I know many players like the fact they could reach legendary division in the last season, fighting only subpar players but honestly the old matchmaking was really terrible, punishing high skilled players because they moved a lower rate than bad players.

Good players have thousand of hours spent in spvp trying to improve their gameplay, a PVE player can’t pretend to have the same progression than a good pvp player.

You need to work on it like other players did.

This is supposed to be a competitive environment. If you want to go up, you need to be better.

Well, I will address some of your eggregious misassumptions.

Personally I presume I did not have a low mmr at start of seas 2. I was in ruby, 100% solo, 2 pips from diamond. I didn’t make it cuz the last 2 days, players made a mad dash and tried to “breeze thru wins” using old losing strategies from seas 1, and it hurt my ability to get diamond and prolly my mmr too. But whatever. With a high number of games under my belt, and a 53% win ratio, I don’t think my mmr was reflective of a lower tier player. I breezed thru amber and 1st tier emerald in less than an hr day one.

Then all of sudden, my skill seems to have vanished! I started losing. The first games lost were due to afkers etc who still thought losing games was still a good way to win this season ( I would never engage in such tactics, I always try to win). I had some dc’ers. I had some who threw games for friends. We also had a few got stomped by rerolling/op/gimmicky teams on ts. Fine. I guess spvp is now a team sport exclusively.

In addition, once I started losing, mmr started matching me w/ poorer players (day 1-2 of seas 2). I play alot. I couldn’t save all the matches. Sometimes you just get matched w/ ppl who r not a good fit (rerolls wont help or not available) or who don’t know how to play spvp. I even loaded in on occasion with 4 v 5 and yet I still lost a pip, even tho it was right from the beginning.

I am not, as arrogantly implied by many, upset about facing better players. In fact, that’s what I like about spvp – the competition. That way I can get better if I need to.

People at the top often smugly mention that they don’t like to carry people who “don’t know what to do.” What do you think I am encountering? How come it is perfectly okay for me to encounter people needing to be carried endlessly, but not you? I don’t understand. I paid the same amount for this game as you.

I take offense every time someone deminimizes my frustration, and that of others, especially since in my case, I have been playing pvp on GW for 14 years.

I am not paired with people in my skill level. I did not sink to this level because of my personal skill.

Think about it. My mmr is not calculated solely (or even necessarily primarily) by my personal skill level. It is calculated by the sum total of all the games I have played, and thus includes, and perhaps is primarily the result of, the personal skill levels of all my teammates, as well the desire/ability of each and every one of my teammates to play.

This isn’t about right or wrong. There have been some horrible miscalculations and design flaws that are horribly skewed, and not panning out according to the “purist” model as designed, and consequently, the system is punishing longstanding, loyal members of the gw family, as well as punishing most casual pvp players, which unfortunately anymore, is most of the gw2 population base.

Remember, as I face more and more losses it will be impossible for me to claw my way up, and in the interim, I am forced to play beneath my own personal skill level (contrary to what you may think), and it is quite frustrating and demoralizing. My last 4 matches even had players who admitted they deliberately dc’ed or went astray. I even loaded in again recently with a 4 v 5 match. The players were reported, chat recorded, as needed, but so what – I still lost my pips and my downward spiral continues. What was it exactly that I was supposed to do to refine my play? I am at the bottom playing with people who don’t know how to play. There is no support. I can kill 1 v 4, but so what. If my teammates are doing nothing and 1 is afk, and the rest quit because of this, or they don’t care (cus its just one game after all), how is this my fault or reflective of my skill? How will I ever go up? One person cannot carry a team. One person cannot cap two points simultaneously.

Also, as to those eternal suggestions that players at the bottom can always go play unranked, cuz that’s where we presumably belong, is again offensive. Without ever seeing any of us play, how would you know where our skill level is really at? Besides, in unranked, players go there to fight one another one-on-one mid map or to test builds and the waits are very long. Also, most of the players in there are just as bad as what Im currently getting paired with, yes, thru no fault of my own. No fault of my own. Are you hearing that? Im not in denial. I am not a bad player. I was recently paired with 4 people, all of whom were in sapphire. They told me I was awesome, they begged me to stay, but they tried to three cap, yes three cap, and we lost. They asked me for advice. They were all in sapphire. Are you hearing me? How would going to unranked help me or anyone else, even presuming we need help and need to get better (and btw I don’t personally need help – since playing spvp since beta has taught me how to play by now). How is this suggestion a solution? People actually tell me to go do something else – go play in unranked. Why don’t we all just go to pve too, and never pvp?

I am entitled to refuse to play w/ friends. That is my prerogative. I am 100% solo que. If anet wanted all ranked pvp to be team based, w/friends, then anet should make it mandatory that all people form a team in order to play ranked pvp, and should also eliminate the hotjoin button. Also, btw, my friends don’t want to risk lowering their cumulative mmr, by carrying a “kitten player” cuz the match-ups offer them no team support and players are often clueless about strategy or builds and sometimes, even with 2 good players, you still can’t save the team to rise up out of the lowest tiers. Yah, its not fun. I am not enjoying it at all. I have been stuck on the same tier of emerald since the first day. Its been more than 100 games. Are you really suggesting that anyone is this bad? Really? After 14 years of playing?

I don’t want to be carried. I have never been carried in pvp. I play 100% solo, and always have and always will. Its a preference. I don’t want to feel forced to do what “top players” think I should do to fix my dilemma, or to improve my fun level or skill level.

Also, my cumulative mmr is now shot forever. I will never be able to claw my way out of the bottom, probably not this season, and possibly never. Its not fun. Its the antithesis of fun. If you want to come carry me, please do so.

However, I will continue to empathize and support the same frustrations other players are experiencing as well and are quitting the game over. I don’t want GW to die. I want anet to try to fix it.

Don’t presume I play ranked pvp for the backpiece either. I don’t care about the backpiece at all. I don’t even want it. I play pvp specifically because I like strong competition. Now I must endure frustration endlessly and believe me, its not fun. Its not competitive. I am just a teacher now. My patience is beyond over. Ive stopped talking in real life. I am demoralized and upset.

Contrary to what you say and imply, at least at it applies in my case, no matter how many times you say it or imply it, I am not a bad player. My mmr is the cumulative result of the skill levels and motivations of the teammates I get paired with, along with my personal skill and other external factors like lag, dcs, etc. I can get punished very badly if my teammates are bad. I am living proof of that.

Please do not think I have not considered your viewpoint. I just think until you walk a mile in my shoes for one day in pvp, under the present system, that you are showing an amazing lack of understanding of the issues.

I have never felt the need to come onto the forums for anything in 14 yrs of playing gw. Now I am just plain tired. The few friends I had on here quit. I am sad. But, by all means, you should not only enjoy your own experience, you should pass judgment on what it is you think I need to do.

Nase.3972:

There’s a lot of players claiming they’re constantly being paired up with bad players and implying they didn’t make a mistake during the game. It’s entirely questionable that this many people are complaining about it and are refusing to believe that they too are “subpar”. This isn’t about mmr or pre-mades vs. PuGs, this is about players in denial of their position on the “skill chain”, like food chain. There’s people thinking going far is not ideal and would rather stream into mid to get stomped rather than changing positions. Or the taboo label players placed on rushing lord while you’re ahead at 350, which isn’t a wrong move unless you’re streaming in getting rolled individually. Adapt and be open minded about strategies as well as composition rather than adopt what you’ve heard as concrete facts.

There’s ways of going about things and rather than blame others, polish the minor mistakes you’ve made rather than what others make. If you’re climbing up the ladders, you should be working on your own skills, not worry about what others do. Yes there are newbie players who don’t understand rotations and compositions, but mentor them rather than berate them and shun them from PvP, don’t complain when he makes the same mistake on your team next game. Yes there will be times when you literally can’t do anything.

I doubt all of you who do complain about others on your team are as good as you think you are.

Flame me.

Edited for grammar mistakes.

I just have to say, I just joined up with 4 players, all in sapphire. We played one game as a “test.” This was after they quizzed me to death about builds, rank, etc. After we played they told me I was awesome. We lost. They three capped. Three capped. Only they didn’t succeed. Big surprise. We had a chat about strategy. They did what I suggested. We capped two and held for a long time, but they fell apart, over beast. They begged me to stay. I quit and went back to solo. They were all 4 sapphires. I was better. They told me I was better. This is not bs. Believe me or not I don’t care. Its so sad. I love pvp, but I will never love it again, I can tell I have to be stuck with noobs forever.

Torafugu 1087 – Absolutely the best suggestion I have heard yet from anyone! Why not? Seems like the perfect solution! Higher you go in mmr, the more you get the handicap.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Torafugu.1087:

high MMR have nothing to do with skill. once you reach a certain value the system carry you up. Acting high and mighty just confirm you need a system to carry you up.
If you are really good, you should ask for a system that works the other way, that higher your MMR, the worse your team gets, so YOU need to be better to carry them. how does that sound ?

Torafugu.1087:

high MMR have nothing to do with skill. once you reach a certain value the system carry you up. Acting high and mighty just confirm you need a system to carry you up.
If you are really good, you should ask for a system that works the other way, that higher your MMR, the worse your team gets, so YOU need to be better to carry them. how does that sound ?

Torafugu.1087:

high MMR have nothing to do with skill. once you reach a certain value the system carry you up. Acting high and mighty just confirm you need a system to carry you up.
If you are really good, you should ask for a system that works the other way, that higher your MMR, the worse your team gets, so YOU need to be better to carry them. how does that sound ?

Well, what happens if I am lucky or skilled enough to claw my way back up to ruby or diamond this season after a 102 game losing streak (w/a few wins).

Am I still a "poor player” then, when all the “good players” have moved up prematurely before me. When I am finally up in ranks, if I can overcome my mmr death spiral, then what am I then?

How will I be characterized then? Will I still be a bad player then?

Will you tell me that I learned to get to diamond rank in less than two months from learning how to play during seas 2 pvp, despite the fact that after 14 years of playing nothing but pvp on gw, I started it out as a purportedly below average player.

Or conversely, is it that I am a good player and I rose to the top because I am a skilled player. If this is the case, why do I have to, as you put it, endure “hell” as a “poor player?”

Which is it? If I end up being good at the end, how will you explain my experience now? How can I be bad now, with a 100 plus losing streak, but get good in so short a time to rise up and be a good player by season end (if, as I suspect, I can). Please explain this rationale to me

Especially when you consider my mmr is not reflective of only my own personal skill level, but also the skill levels and personal abilities and motivations to play of each and every one of my teammates I encounter and am paired with, as well as some extraneous factors as well such as lag or power failures, etc.

This is not a fun experience for me. Being forced to read top players views on this, compounds this frustration. There is a lot of self-serving, smug discussion out there.
There are a lot of directives to poor players as to what they should do and how they should play the game.

This season of spvp reminds me of the old Hall of Heroes in gw1, when people could only get in with a team of 8 premade. The teams had to be Iway, or it was no-way or the highway for the rest of players. Then it became go away. There was a lot of toxicity that was driven by players who were actively engaged in, and proud of their Iway successes. For those players who wanted to hotjoin hall of heroes, or who wanted a team composed of anything but Iway, the option became less and less of an option. Eventually, Hall of Heroes became an empty pavilion long before the player base dropped off.

Its not nice to rub peoples noses in a string of failures, or poor skill, or tell them to play something else in the game like unranked or pve. Such statements show an amazing lack of understanding about the frustration people experience, and are perhaps a little short-sighted about the potential damaging effects of not only poor system designs or choices but also of championing those changes as though they benefit most of the players, or in the end, the game itself.

Please remember, it is not personal skill by itself, solely and exclusively that determines one’s mmr or one’s matchmaking placement or one’s individual game match-ups.

If this is team arena, then we are all in it together, for better or worse, to carry the poorer players and cheer on the greater players, and when any one person fails, we are all affected and in the end, we all fail. So sad. I love GW. I do not love spvp anymore.

And I am not a bad player, not matter how much top players don’t believe it, or how much people may not like me or like what I say.

Further, having to claw my way back from the bottom to the top is the antithesis of game fun. It is humiliating. Not because I can’t take a hard fall (believe me, in my lifeI have taken many a hard fall and bore it bravely, objectively and well). It is humiliating because I do not feel I deserve it. Thus, the protest. Its like a person with a doctorate having to take a job as a janitor. Its not so much that the job is bad, or frustrating in and of itself, its because the person doesn’t belong in that position from anyone’s viewpoint.

In addition, now the system is punishing me even more than a random system would, since my low mmr is making it harder and harder for me to ever win or gain tiers. All of this is occurring why, exactly? Why couldn’t the good players just rise to the top in random match-ups like they inevitably would no matter what, without an extra penalty added to those who lose, like a negative handicap to make it even harder.

I watch the leagues. I watch gw streamers. I am the guy who buys the products. What did I do? I bought the game and all expansions. I spent money in the gem store. I speak highly of the game and recommend it to people. Why am I having such a miserable experience? Why are you not hearing me? Why are you not believing me? Why do you not care? Why is this okay?

Oh, I forgot. I am not worthy. I am a terrible player. I do not deserve to win or be heard. You can find me in pve or unranked where I belong, now that you’ve all kicked me sufficiently well. What a hard pill to swallow. But believe me, I am grateful for all that I have learned from the game.

ronpierce.2760:

Jelzouki.4128:

If all the better than average players progress and the less than average are left behindbat the start of the season doesn’t that mean the less than average willbface the new players and each other? Then its only a matter of them increasing there skill level by watching top tier streams or tournaments in order to get better? So this matchmaking actually makes sense then..

It does make sense, but the first week or so until the good players are out of that division it’s hell on poor players. That said, that’s part of competition, and why I urge people to just play Unranked. People like to get their feathers fluffed over it, but I mean… That’s what it’s there for, for people who don’t want the hussle and bustle of Ranked game play and getting thrown around. Maybe a week after Unranked people would get their confidence (and skill?) up a bit and the better players would have moved on, and try again.

I made a mistake in my post above. I did not use any tactics to “breeze thru wins.” I never have and never will. I have a typo in the reply above which I did not catch. The sentence was supposed to read teammates used tactics to breeze thru wins by employing mmr adjusting strategies that resulted in losses of games and loss of pips and personal mmr for me.

Well, I will address and hopefully correct some of your more eggregious misstatements and misassumptions.

Personally I presume I did not have a low mmr at start of seas 2. I was in ruby, 100% solo, 2 pips from diamond. I didn’t make it cuz the last 2 days, tried to “breeze thru wins” using old losing strategies from seas 1, and it hurt my ability to get diamond and prolly my mmr too. But whatever. With a high number of games under my belt, and a 53% win ratio, I don’t think my mmr was reflective of a lower tier player. I breezed thru amber and 1st tier emerald in less than an hr day one.

Then all of sudden, my skill seems to have vanished. I started losing. The first games lost were due to the afkers etc who still thought losing games was still a good way to win this season ( I would never engage in such tactics, I always try to win). I had some dc’ers. I had some who threw games for their friends. We got stomped by rerolling/op/gimmicky teams on ts. Fine. I guess spvp is now a team sport exclusively.

In addition, once I started losing, mmr started matching me w/ poorer players (day 1-2 of seas 2). I play alot. I couldn’t save all the matches. Sometimes you just get matched w/ ppl who r not a good fit (rerolls wont help or not available) or who don’t know how to play spvp.

I am not, as arrogantly implied by many, upset about facing better players. In fact, that’s what I like about spvp – the competition. That way I can get better if I need to.

You mention that you don’t like to carry people who “don’t know what a node is.” What do you think I am encountering. How come it is perfectly okay for me to encounter people needing to be carried endlessly, but not you. I don’t understand. I paid the same amount for this game as you.

I don’t see any psychological mumbo jumbo, unless of course, anyone with emotions, opinions, and a brain is having psychological mumbo jumbo.

And please, try to refrain from telling people like me that our frustration is silly and insulting. I don’t really appreciate it. Please don’t demean my experience. I take offense at your efforts to deminimize my frustration, and others, especially since in my case, I have been playing pvp on GW for 14 years.

I am not paired with ppl in my skill level. I did not sink to this level because of my personal skill.

Think about it. My mmr is not calculated solely (or even necessarily primarily) by my personal skill level. It is calculated by the sum total of all the games I have played, and thus includes, and perhaps is primarily the result of, the personal skill levels as well the desire/ability to play exhibited by all my teammates.

This isn’t about right or wrong. There have been some horrible miscalculations and design flaws that are horribly skewed, and not panning out according to the “purist” model as designed, and consequently, the system is punishing longstanding, loyal members of the gw family, as well as punishing most casual pvp players, which unfortunately anymore, is most of the gw2 population base.

Remember, as I face more and more losses it will be impossible for me to claw my way up and in the interim, I am forced to play beneath my own personal skill level (contrary to what you may think), and it is quite frustrating and demoralizing. My last 4 matches even had players who admitted they deliberately dc’ed or akitten. They were reported, chat recorded, but so what – I still lost my pips and my downward spiral continues. What was it that I was supposed to do. I am at the bottom playing with people who don’t know how to play. There is no support. I can kill 1 v 4, but so what. If my teammates are doing nothing and 1 is afk, and the rest quit because of this, or they don’t care (cus its just one game after all), how is this my fault or reflective of my skill?

Also, as to your suggestion that players at the bottom can always go play unranked, cuz that’s where we presumably belong, is rather presumptuous. Without ever seeing any of us play, how would you know where our skill level is really at? Besides, in unranked, players go in there to fight one another one-on-one mid map or to test builds. How would that help me or anyone else, even presuming we need help and need to get better (and btw I don’t personally need help – since playing spvp since beta has taught me how to play by now). How is this suggestion a solution. You’re actually telling me to go do something else. Why don’t we all just go to pve too, and never pvp?

I am entitled to refuse to play w/ friends. That is my prerogative. If anet wanted all ranked pvp to be team based, w/friends, then anet should should make it mandatory that all people form a team in order to play ranked pvp, and should also eliminate the hotjoin button. Also, btw, my friends don’t want to risk lowering their cumulative mmr, by carrying a kitten player cuz the match-ups offer them no team support and players are often clueless about strategy or builds and sometimes, even with 2 good players, you still can’t save the team to rise up out of the lowest tiers.

Your own statement says it all: You “don’t feel the need to carry someone who barely knows what a node is.” Yah, its not fun. I am not enjoying it either.

I also don’t want to be “carried.” I have never been carried in pvp. I play 100% solo, and always have and always will. Its a preference. I don’t want to feel forced to do what “top players” think I should do to fix my dilemma, or to improve my fun level or skill level.

Also, my cumulative mmr is now shot forever. I will never be able to claw my way out of the bottom, probably not this season, and possibly never. Its not fun. Its the antithesis of fun. If you want to come carry me, please do so.

However, I will continue to empathize and support the same frustrations other players are experiencing as well and are quitting the game over. I don’t want GW to die. I want anet to try to fix it.

Don’t presume I play ranked pvp for the backpiece either. I don’t care about the backpiece at all. I don’t even want it. I play pvp specifically because I like strong competition. Now I must endure frustration endlessly and believe me, its not fun.

Contrary to what you say and imply, at least at it applies in my case, no matter how many times you say it or imply it, I am not a bad player. My mmr is the cumulative result of the skill levels and motivations of the teammates I get paired with, along with my personal skill and other external factors like lag, dcs, etc. I can get punished very badly if my teammates are bad. I am living proof of that.

And why is it, finally, that you emphasize your suggestions with italics, and bolding, but that is not considered drawing attention to your posts over and above what others have posted by using capital letters or other punctuation to emphasize theirs? You seem to have a nice understanding of forum rules, hence your suggestion to me as to how to post my replies. Please elucidate for me what you know of the rules that makes bolding and italics ok, but other punctuation, font types, capital letters, or other formatting means of typing emphasis are not ok. I would appreciate an education in this regard instead. Thanks for your anticipated help in this regard.

Please do not think I have not considered your viewpoint. I just think until you walk a mile in my shoes for one day in pvp, under the present system, that you are showing an amazing lack of understanding of the issues.

Also, please remember I am new to the forums. I have never felt the need to come onto the forums for anything in 14 yrs of playing gw.

ronpierce.2760:

jessiestiles.9437:

A lot of the people with overemphatic praise do seem to have a complete lack of empathy, ie the ability to comprehend someone elses situation without having direct experience, and cognitive function to possess foresight. Both of which the OP eloquently displayed. These are human qualities we begin to develop an awareness and understanding of as toddlers and hopefully by adulthood are greatly matured. It seems almost non-existant in some of you. I don’t know if it’s pathological or maybe the win streak affected your dopamine levels interfering with your ability to process information. It is a tad disturbing.

I’m sure if they were in the same boat having that unique perspective would impact their feelings about this topic.

That’s sort of a two-way street. For lower MMR players (who would have been lower MMR before this catastrophe, or they’d have been on the rising side, instead) it feels unfair that you have to face anyone better than you.

For people with Higher MMR, the story isn’t the same. From my perspective, it’s nice to see people actually on teams with people in their bracket, that way, I don’t feel the need to carry someone who barely knows what a node is. Prior to now, my frustrations with PvP would be having to deal with people who goof off, then start raging in chat or AFKing. So in a sense, before now, I was the one with the problem, but people being carried certainly didn’t mind getting wins that were far-beyond unearned.

The psychological mumbo-jumbo is a far-reach, and is quite silly. The only psychology here is “everyone wants something different, and if it’s not what they want, it’s wrong”. This includes people who want even matches (both low tier and high tier) and people who only feel the Divisions should matter for who you face, so long as people are teamed with people in their skill range.

No one is ‘right’ or ‘wrong’, people have unique needs and wants, and that’s not possible to deliver on them all. Certainly the low-tier players are the most frustrated, and it’s understandable.

But while I empathize to a degree, I can’t empathize with someone who refuses to understand that there are other modes that suit their needs already, refuse to get better, refuse to find friends to play with them, refuse to do anything to help themselves, and only wish to complain until Ranked turned back into a reward track- Glorified Unranked, as it was. That’s what annoys me the most. I’ve come up with many answers, including future solutions, while I’m met with people bashing their heads on their screens with “No, no, no, no because, no.”

I get it, people are frustrated, but people aren’t listening to me. It is the FIRST WEEK, of a mistake of throwing everyone in the same Division. That’s the big flaw of the system. The match making is not the issue because it DOES pan out with higher Divisions, as I stated. It’s the entitlement that people have that annoys me.

So what you don’t get your ranked pretty backpack in just 1 season? So try to work your way to Sapphire over a few seasons and get it, and spend more time in Unranked where it’s more fun to you? “NO,” that’s just a ridiculous suggestion… Why?

ronpierce.2760:

jessiestiles.9437:

A lot of the people with overemphatic praise do seem to have a complete lack of empathy, ie the ability to comprehend someone elses situation without having direct experience, and cognitive function to possess foresight. Both of which the OP eloquently displayed. These are human qualities we begin to develop an awareness and understanding of as toddlers and hopefully by adulthood are greatly matured. It seems almost non-existant in some of you. I don’t know if it’s pathological or maybe the win streak affected your dopamine levels interfering with your ability to process information. It is a tad disturbing.

I’m sure if they were in the same boat having that unique perspective would impact their feelings about this topic.

That’s sort of a two-way street. For lower MMR players (who would have been lower MMR before this catastrophe, or they’d have been on the rising side, instead) it feels unfair that you have to face anyone better than you.

For people with Higher MMR, the story isn’t the same. From my perspective, it’s nice to see people actually on teams with people in their bracket, that way, I don’t feel the need to carry someone who barely knows what a node is. Prior to now, my frustrations with PvP would be having to deal with people who goof off, then start raging in chat or AFKing. So in a sense, before now, I was the one with the problem, but people being carried certainly didn’t mind getting wins that were far-beyond unearned.

The psychological mumbo-jumbo is a far-reach, and is quite silly. The only psychology here is “everyone wants something different, and if it’s not what they want, it’s wrong”. This includes people who want even matches (both low tier and high tier) and people who only feel the Divisions should matter for who you face, so long as people are teamed with people in their skill range.

No one is ‘right’ or ‘wrong’, people have unique needs and wants, and that’s not possible to deliver on them all. Certainly the low-tier players are the most frustrated, and it’s understandable.

But while I empathize to a degree, I can’t empathize with someone who refuses to understand that there are other modes that suit their needs already, refuse to get better, refuse to find friends to play with them, refuse to do anything to help themselves, and only wish to complain until Ranked turned back into a reward track- Glorified Unranked, as it was. That’s what annoys me the most. I’ve come up with many answers, including future solutions, while I’m met with people bashing their heads on their screens with “No, no, no, no because, no.”

I get it, people are frustrated, but people aren’t listening to me. It is the FIRST WEEK, of a mistake of throwing everyone in the same Division. That’s the big flaw of the system. The match making is not the issue because it DOES pan out with higher Divisions, as I stated. It’s the entitlement that people have that annoys me.

So what you don’t get your ranked pretty backpack in just 1 season? So try to work your way to Sapphire over a few seasons and get it, and spend more time in Unranked where it’s more fun to you? “NO,” that’s just a ridiculous suggestion… Why?

As a meta dh, I routinely kill 3 or 4 by myself. So what? If none of ur team is capping, or they die instantly or w./e, guess what, u can still lose. Same when I play reaper or rev.

That’s why I say, MY MMR is not based on MY PERSONAL SKILL. It is based on my TEAM’s COMBINED SKILLS.

SkyShroud.2865:

so that how it works….
but wait…if i can 1v2 and kill both of them and yet lose the game because it is simply too hard to carry 4 person while fighting a team that have common sense, what does that means? im eternally screwed?

Yah, nice evasive response. Didn’t think u play like I do. That’s y u r where u r and I am where I am.

IF anet wants us on a team, PLS DELETE HOTJOIN BUTTON if ur JUST GOING TO PUNISH US FOR USING IT.

Cynz.9437:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Did u get to ruby “extremely easily” last season by playing 100% solo q and not throwing a single game and no ts and no rerolls?

Cuz that’s how I roll. And I didn’t find it “extremely easy,” and I am neither an average nor a poor player, but w/e think w/e u want.

I am sry but getting ruby requires literary grind, nothing else, since you didn’t lose tiers.

Did u get to ruby “extremely easily” last season by playing 100% solo q and not throwing a single game and no ts and no rerolls?

Cuz that’s how I roll. And I didn’t find it “extremely easy,” and I am neither an average nor a poor player, but w/e think w/e u want.

Cynz.9437:

It was extremely easy to get to ruby last season. Also, this season is not even 1 week old, average player got months to get to ruby and they will.

I was out of amber in less than an hour. I have been stuck in emerald.

As I said before, what do u say to me when I make it to ruby or diamond this season, just like I did last season. Am I good then? IF so, what am I experiencing now and y am I being called poor?

Link.1049:

Cynz.9437:

ronpierce.2760:

jessiestiles.9437:

snip

There may be a few swept up in unfortunate circumstances, but here’s my point. First off, these players got out on that team in the first place because the game saw them at a similar MMR. It’s not like they were placed with people that were significantly lower than their MMR (which can happen in Unranked, when they try to balance the MMRs across team). Secondly, because the old Unranked system tried to balance teams, people get under this assumption that because their win ratio is 50-55% elsewhere that they are at least average players or better. Many players have convinced themselves that they are better than they truly are, and that’s another unfortunate side effect of this new system. Some people are getting a dose of reality but they are the same people who blame the system rather than themselves.

Point is, I think people are over-attributing their losses to the “system”, and are under-attributing their losses to their lack of skill.

And I’m not sure why people get floored by the suggestion, but que up with a couple buddies to get yourself out of the rut you’re in. You have the power to fix the rut of you think you’re just being wronged, que with better players which should help your MMR.

Couldn’t say this better.

Also, this is Sunday 4 pm HotM. I don’t see that many amber icons. Apparently majority is NOT sitting in 100 games loss streaks.

This comes off as a bit clueless… getting out of Amber if you play enough is inevitable even with 100 game losing streaks, as you can’t lose pips. Getting to Emerald is tiresome but doable for most players. If you’re lucky to win a match once in awhile and have the patience to deal with broken matchmaking.

What you’re not understanding is besides that the reason you’re not seeing many Amber players is because many players are quitting. Would you keep playing a broken system after 100 loses in a row???

IM IN EMERALD NOT AMBER. I PLAY META, HOW NICE FOR U THAT UVE HAD A NICE EXP.

JUST FINISHED A GAME AFTER A 3 GAME WINNING STREAK WHERE THE GUY DELIBERATELY DCED AND THEN RECONNECTED IN & “LOL” & SAID “IDK IF UR NOT GUD.”

LOST A PIP! YAY! I KNOW, MY SKILL, RT? I KNOW, I should have been able to carry my team to victory against 4 reapers, but I couldn’t, even w/ my DH meta that I am practicing so hard (even in unranked).

O well, I just gotta GET BETTER.

Phaeton.9582:

Cynz.9437:

jessiestiles.9437:

Cynz.9437:

ronpierce.2760:

jessiestiles.9437:

snip

There may be a few swept up in unfortunate circumstances, but here’s my point. First off, these players got out on that team in the first place because the game saw them at a similar MMR. It’s not like they were placed with people that were significantly lower than their MMR (which can happen in Unranked, when they try to balance the MMRs across team). Secondly, because the old Unranked system tried to balance teams, people get under this assumption that because their win ratio is 50-55% elsewhere that they are at least average players or better. Many players have convinced themselves that they are better than they truly are, and that’s another unfortunate side effect of this new system. Some people are getting a dose of reality but they are the same people who blame the system rather than themselves.

Point is, I think people are over-attributing their losses to the “system”, and are under-attributing their losses to their lack of skill.

And I’m not sure why people get floored by the suggestion, but que up with a couple buddies to get yourself out of the rut you’re in. You have the power to fix the rut of you think you’re just being wronged, que with better players which should help your MMR.

Couldn’t say this better.

Also, this is Sunday 4 pm HotM. I don’t see that many amber icons. Apparently majority is NOT sitting in 100 games loss streaks.

Maybe the ambers on losing streaks quit to do something else more produtive and/or enjoyable and you are unknowingly arguing in favor of irrepairably damaged game.

OR majority don’t even post nor read forums. They actually play game. This is reality :P

And they’re not horrible at it. I played through amber late last week, and honestly felt pretty comfortable 1v2ing any two players I encountered.

Go on metabattle.com, run the build and learn your class. Sorry to sound mean, but I think anyone would advocate that to someone losing 100 games straight at amber.

I am skilled. I NEVER give up. AND I never rage at players, even when their down 500 pts to 0. The only thing that makes me rage is unfairness, smugness, and ppl who do what anet doesn’t want me to say on the forum – u know, not playing the way the game is intended for fairness. That’s it. So take ur sarcasm and use it on someone else. The rage is coming from days of being stuck in the same pip and being forced to play w/ bottom feeders for a long time.

ronpierce.2760:

Lol Easter of Peeps, I’m sure you’re an amazingly skillful player.
And don’t at all seem like someone who would give up and rage at the team if they are down 50 points.

ronpierce.2760:

Jelzouki.4128:

If all the better than average players progress and the less than average are left behindbat the start of the season doesn’t that mean the less than average willbface the new players and each other? Then its only a matter of them increasing there skill level by watching top tier streams or tournaments in order to get better? So this matchmaking actually makes sense then..

It does make sense, but the first week or so until the good players are out of that division it’s hell on poor players. That said, that’s part of competition, and why I urge people to just play Unranked. People like to get their feathers fluffed over it, but I mean… That’s what it’s there for, for people who don’t want the hussle and bustle of Ranked game play and getting thrown around. Maybe a week after Unranked people would get their confidence (and skill?) up a bit and the better players would have moved on, and try again.

geekanerd.4123:

Torafugu.1087:

“System is fine. If you’re on a loss streak, go unranked. No one is entitled to do well in ranked.”

The system is not fine. the only reason he’s on a loss streak is the losing streak itself. The streak reduces his MMR and low MMR causes more losses due to flawed MM.
It’s not rocket science.

Well, they’re right. Nobody deserves or is entitled to anything in pvp. But what a weird kittening marketing scheme: PvP League Season 2 on splash screen, ready-ups, hype, everybody come play pvp for shiny backpack. Oh, but it’s going to be really, really kittening miserable for /most/ of you, and you’ll end up resenting the game mode if not the whole game itself, stick to unranked because you’re bad.

If that was the plan the whole time, I think they’ve a real success on their hands, here.

I agree with this completely. After 14 yrs of gw Im pretty sure Im done. I pvp 90% of the time. I had a 53% win/loss ratio, made it to 2 pips short of diamond seas 1. Been on meta dh/rev/reap. Que’d w/ similar friends in beginning, not as team. Always 100% solo.

The prob w/ all this “reasonable” discussion fo the matchmaking system is that u all assume that the ONLY factor affecting whether a player advances up/ or drops down is their personal skill/mmr.

That is a sorry, sad joke. My first 10 game losing streak (while my friends w/ their lucky win streaks sailed rt into saph) was caused by multiple things BEYOND MY CONTROL and having nothing to do w/ my skill.

For ex – 2nd day. Started as emerald, tier one complete, 2 pips in 2nd tier. Then the kitten began. Ppl doing dailies, who could CARE LESS about their mmr/winning, etc. did NOTHING in my game. Not really afk, but not really playing. Really toxic. Then came the afkers who thought seas 2 was supposed to be like 1 and they thought they were supposed to lose a bunch to sail thru wins. Then I lost 2 to dc’ers/lag (anet fault). I actually lost a pip to a player dcing, who rejoined. Then came the 4 man premades of probable high mmr on ts. I had this in 3 or 4 games. I was paired w/ solos. I checked the chart at end of each game. Not pretty that solo randoms were forced to go against premade 4 reaper or other 2-4 meta build players. Then came the “rerolls.” We all join in. The opposition assesses our composition and “rerolls for a better offense.” No players on our team had alts to reroll. Oh well. Too bad. I could go on and on.

In any event, about 10 – 15 straight losses occurred. Then I started getting worse players. I still had some wins, but the player base was definitely not as good. I didn’t need to be carried, but frankly, no matter how good, if 2 or 3 players on your team are not seasoned pvpers, seasoned pvpers may not be able to “carry the team” against a team of all good/seasoned players, not matter how awesome they are, or how much they try. You add in bs stuff like unbalanced classes/skills/lag, etc. and u have an ugly combination of factors BEYOND A PLAYER’S control, all of which contribute to a player’s downward losing spiral.

Needless to say, once the spiral of doom starts happening, it becomes increasingly more difficult for a “good” player to “carry a team” of 4 bad players. It becomes impossible to raise mmr. I am now being demeaned by players whom I have trounced FOR YEARS in pvp, and being told I need to practice and I just suck and go qq. I am told once the really “good players” graduate, I will be ok and can start my ascent. I am 99 games down. I lol to think what my mmr is.

While I am the first to admit that if I suck, I suck. I am also the first to try and try and try again, to improve my playing. I play all day. I am quite smart. I am not disabled. How can I be 99 games down? How is that even possible, when the laws of statistics in totally random match-ups would dictate I would have a somewhat better win/loss ratio than 99/0.

Then to add in the smug explanations from the “good players” and awesome players that the mmr is working as intended is infuriating. Is this really working as intended? Am I really such garbage? Really? I may suck, but how is it that people I have one on one many a time, and beaten repeatedly for years, are way ahead of me? How can I be stuck at the same tier after 5 days of playing about 12 hrs a day (don’t tell me how much to play). How can I not be getting better?

I know why. Cuz I am now playing the dregs. I am paired w/ ppl who don’t even know what capping is, or that pvp isn’t one on one battle in the middle of map. So toxic too.

Please, save your well-intended, but smug and sanctimonious condescending explanations of the “purist model” of the mmr/match-up system for people who what, need it?

JTGuevara.9018:

Cynz.9437:

I think current system is way better than old one however they should have implemented qualification matches like in league. They go like this:
- there are 10 qualification matches that don’t affect your rating (yet) but you have to do them to get placement in leagues
- with each win you face better teams but also get better teams
- the more matches out of 10 you win the higher you get placed in divisions

Bad players land in lower divisions, better players land in higher divisions and usually don’t see each other so much xD

I also think that not losing tiers is bad thing. I think if you have no pips in a tier and continue to lose matches w/o wins you should lose tier even in emerald and sapphire. Example: infamous Bob is in sapphire tier 3, has 0 pips, he loses 5 matches in a row, he gets moved to tier 2 in sapphire.

LIES, this system is WORSE than season 1. Look at the results. Queues are getting longer, league Day 1: instant-30 sec now………..Day 5: 3-4 min

Why is that? PEOPLE ARE QUITTING NEWBIES AND VETERANS ALIKE
You ELITISTS that got CARRIED to your wins by teaming up/class stacking need to wake up and smell the coffee

THE SYSTEM HAS FAILED

LOL! I agree! I want a nice fluffy. Add some tea, soft music and lots of compliments about how my avatar LOOKS! LOL ty for this!

Silverstone.4539:

@ Eater of Peeps
sorry sounds like your taking it ever worse then I am.

There are parts of HotM that are not used. Anet should made a “PvP rehab” where with lots of fluffy animals, nice tress and just good feelings. where we can just chill and timeout when in a queue before it all starts again.

I genuinely think this would be a good idea

LOSING STReAK – error ABOVE – I meant losing streak – NOT WINNING STREAK. I CANT EVEN TYPE ANYMORE CUZ JUST TALKING ABOUT THIS MAKES ME UPSET! I get so mad every time some one makes a snarky comment (they just did it again). THESE R PEOPLE WHOSE BUTTS I HAVE KILLED MANY MANY MANY times over in pvp – now they r laughing at me like Im some noob. This is just Disgusting! I hate everyone right now. Go away. I even, for the very first time in my entire time playing GW pvp (cuz I am honorable, and I like to play the game the way it was intended to be played) DCED on PURPOSE out of rage quit. NEVER DONE IT BEFORE. MAD AT THE WORLD. NOW IM ENJOYING MY DISHONOR.

I couldn’t agree more. I am now at a 92 game losing streak. I had a friend who tried to help me 3 games. We won 1, lost 2. He told me (not cuz he is nice) that it is not me – its the noob players. Two people cannot carry a bad team, when the players r THIS BAD. I feel trapped in some hell. I am SO SICK of hearing ppl say, u just suck that’s y u have that winning streak (they haven’t played w/ me) or ur mmr sucks so that’s y u r that low – get better ! This after all the yrs of playing solo q pvp. I started the season ranked w/ my friends, w/ presumable high mmr(presumably cuz of high w/l ratio & last tier ruby) yet, due to string of dcer’s, afkers, match manipulators (too stupid to know mmr had changed so don’t throw games pls), stompers, team rerolls, etc,. etc, I was sent into a downward spiral so that now I cant get out of it. MY MMR IS TOTAL SH….T. I WILL NEVER GET OUT OF THIS. It was TOO Frustrating for my friend to even play 3 games and lose 2 pips at this level. He couldn’t do it, cuz the level of play was TOO FRUSTRATING. DITTO for me. NO ONE is this bad! Basic statistics, laws of chance/noobishness would dictate a higher win/loss ratio. The system is broken. THe ppl r toxic, and no matter how nice I start out my day, I end it at the same place in emerald tier 1, and I am upset, demoralized, kittened off at the world, jittery, toxic, and lashing out at ppl. I am not normally like this. I have played pvp on gw and other games for more than 15yrs (13 on gw), having fun. I HAVE NEVER FELT LIKE THIS, and have NEVER been the recipient of SO MUCH TOXIC FILTH in my life. Is it time to quit? I don’t want one more person to tell me I suck, to hang in there, to wait till “ALL THE GOOD PLAYERS MOVE UP”, to quit, to take a break, to wait a few days, to practice in pve or unranked, to get a better build (than DH meta, reaper meta, reve meta), to qq some more, to take it to the forums, to just man up cuz my rank is where it belongs and I need to adjust to the reality that after 13 yrs of gw pvp, I AM JUST THE WORST PVP SOLO QUER EVER IN GW HISTORY. I am not feeling like a nice person anymore. Don’t offer me any advice here EXCEPT TO TELL ME U FEEL BAD FOR ME cuz IT COULD HAPPEN TO U TOO. Believe me or not, believe that I suck or not, but the frustration is real, its unreal, and for the first time in all the yrs Ive been playing pvp (90% of the time I spend playing on gw) on gw 1 and 2 (since beta both), I AM THINKING OF QUITTING, CUZ, U KNOW, I SUCK. I am wondering if this is what ANET intended.? REALLY?

This is total sanctimonious bs! Im at basically an 88 straight loss streak (2 wins in between). NO ONE is THIS BAD. If you have pvp’ed EVER logic would dictate unless there’s something wrong with you, you should win A FEW MORE THAN 2! Give me a break.

Shadelang.3012:

The reason for this has been explained in a dozen threads now. The general consensus is let the kitten league sort out. We KNEW this is what would happen. Nearly every PvPer that asked for exactly for this system knew this would happen. The issue is alot of those people didn’t realize where there skill level actually was. Now that were being partnered by tier instead of by Win/Loss ratio people are getting harsh wakeup calls.

Let the max tier people get where they need to go. It won’t take the much longer to spread out. But making rage posts cussing out Anet for giving us EXACTLY what the vocal portion of our community asked for is not exactly bright…nor is it fair to Arenanet.

I agree with everything u say. I don’t understand y anet doesn’t start ppl out in tiers according to longevity playing pvp. That way, the skilled pvpers would be in a tier together. There would be no “carrying” of weaker players cuz they would have to work their way up out fo the tiers. Higher placed players couldn’t help lower players w.o sacrificing something. Newbies would all be tiered together. That way, if a player had been playing pvp a long time, but still wasn’t skilled, they would be weeded out and left behind in the bottom of the upper tier system. Skilled players, with less experience, would start out lower, but work their way up thru lower tiers, and then up thru the higher tiers (where they could then be carried if desired). They need to have solo and team, or if not that, then at least totally random, w./ no ability to “reroll.” They need to balance classes/skills better and not allow more than one class per match. That might actually show who has skill and who doesn’t.

As it stands right now, I am 88 to 3 in a recent 79 game losing streak. Ive won a couple today, but basically am still in tier 1 of emerald. I cannot get a team that does anything right. I actually was paired 4 times w/ a BOT. A BOT. Ridiculous. Im paired now w/ people who fight in the middle of map, don’t even KNOW to cap, kill nothing but try to kill everything one on one. I have afker’s, dc’ers and oppoisiton is filled w/ stompers (4 reapers and a solo) when my team has a Mesmer v/ pve build, a wr w/ no skill, ranger w/ no clue and a medium dumpy engineer or ele w/ no meta. This is my pvp experience now, after 2 yrs of solid gw2 playing. My first three days on seas 2 has my stuck in emerald tier one for 3 days. I am now losing hope I will EVER get out of it, as my mmr is RUINED forever. I kinda think Im gonna give up. I kinda think it may be time to go, cuz its so demoralizing.

Keep your chin up. Your not that bad. Ive gotten so bad, I can tell Im gonna lose the second the team starts talking (and not about strategy). I can just tell.

And yes, the ppl u r coming up against could very well be blitzing thru emerald on a win streak w/ their buddies helping them out, so you could get stomped, esp if the score is like 500 to 10 (talk about bad balance and reroll chump city).

Anyway, gl and hang in there. Don’t let it get u down … I guess.

Milan.9035:

I just want to get something strait. It feels unreal to me.

I got a losing streak early this season. I did get into emerald now mostly just grinding. never felt like I beat or lost to a team fairly.

So I am in t3 emerald and I got low mmr cause i lost a lot. A LOT. So when it puts me in a team it gives me people with my low mmr but I face teams with higher mmr but we all in emerald. Is this right?

I am just trying to understand why I am playing with people who are new to the game or that are clearly not experienced in pvp.

the game starts and the team triple splits, makes my heart break a little and i just let out a deep breath but i still give it maximum effort!

I know I am not this bad that my winrate is like 10%. I been playing this game over 2 years now and 90% of my time is doing spvp. I play pvp games all my life, grew up on street fighter and age of empires. I love competition!

The good news I hear is that once all the “good” people leave emerald I will have more fair matches. Sounds nice and hard to believe……..I wonder what the population will be like at that point….

Season 2 has been out for only a few days and I feel so exhausted from it already.

lighter.2708:

joke aside , every one including legendaries( i know because i’m legendary and most people on my friendlist are also legendaries) had really bad teammates in amber or even emerald..that’s why party exists..add some friends who are equal skill or better and blaze through that phase..that’s what a lot of players did anyway

Im sorry, but this is just so cheesy/sleazy. What about solo q players w. no friends, or no ts or who don’t like people or don’t like team play. What’s with them – they can just get kittened? Until they get so frustrated they quit, or they humiliate themselves by pairing w/ ppl who might actually be considerably crappier than they are at pvp to “carry them” sailingly thru a lucky streak of wins. There’s something really wrong w/ a system that requires THIS tactic as the FIX.
This is similar to the seas 1 – just lose a ton of games, then u will face noobs, and u can sail thru a ton of wins, to get a 50% mmr at end. I was the VICTIM of that mentality as a solo quer, as most of my teams had match manipulators who threw games, no matter HOW MUCH I WANTED TO JUST PLAY, or play fair, or play the game the way ANET intended/designed, never mind to win.

Now I get to pair up w/ someone, whether I like the solution or not, to “carry” poor sucky me (yah, rt) thru to ruby or something, despite the fact that my mmr is RUINED by losses beyond my control (Despite what ppl say, 1 player cant carry a whole crappy team against another good team).

Give me a break pls. This is disgraceful and just ruins the gw experience, and its a game I love.

Amen. There it is. That says it all.

InsidiousWaffle.7086:

Exploitation and farming? More like “You are being placed against players with more skill than you, and you need to wait for them to progress past you in order to find players of similar skill to play against”

This is such an arrogant bs statement. Youre saying u cant think of a single scenario where a good player might get caught in a death spiral of losses beyond his/her control – dc’ers, afker’s, match manipulaters throwing games cuz they didn’t read patch notes to c mmr is newly calc’d, rerolls, 4 players paired w./ ts against all solo q’ers, newbies, noobs, rage quitters, rerolls (y the kitten is that EVER allowed), bad team compositions, unbalanced skills/classes/players etc. Give me a break. I am in a 72 loss streak. I do not suck, after 12 years of playing gw pvp. Please. Youre just so rude and shallow and wearing blinders. You must be riding high on a lucky mmr streak combined w/ some skill. I am riding on a death spiral unlucky streak despite considerable pvp prowess. Please.

I am having the same exact prob seas 2 – living in the same bottom feeder hell. Started the season, w. my friend (solo qed tho, didn’t pair up cuz we play diff times). I actually had a slightly higher mmr than he does – dragon rank, made it to ruby – about 50% ratio or a little higher. Ive been pvping in gw for 12 yrs, and gw2 since beta. Do it every day. Play meta dh, meta rev, meta reaper.

last seas I was 2 pips from diamond, but didn’t make it cuz of all the afker’s and match throwers – u know – throw a skill every one min, or stand outside the cap zone. Everyone told me, hang in there – it’ll be better seas. 2

Started in same place as my friend. Got paired w/ ppl who thought they should throw games some more (they didn’t think to read patch notes) – I told them mmr had been fixed and they told me to kitten off. Kept playing, won a few, then lost 4 in a row due to various situations (teams on ts, rerolls, bad compositions, 1 dc, etc. Kept hanging in there, but lost 3 more – bad team composition in 2, and 1 w/ 2 complete noobs who kept fighting ppl in mid of map and doing nothing else but dying. Got paired lower and lower.

I am now in a 72, yes 72! game loss streak. I am in some Twilight Zone hell where the players r noobs, newbies, clueless, afk, dcing, or just stupid re: strategy. I don’t feel Im ever getting out of this. Ive been stuck in tier 1 of emerald for 2 days solid. Meanwhile, my friend, whom I TAUGHT how to play pvp, is sailing thru sapphire, caught on a lucky streak of supportive players. And no, HE IS NOT A BETTER PLAYER, and no, I do not suck (I can hear the self righteous noobs right now who are in sapphire or above, whose butts I know I have slammed in gw2 pvp MANY A TIME before, thinking just that).

I feel like many. I have been playing gw for 12 yrs, all of it primarily pvp. I am a seasoned veteran player. I am not enjoying the game for the first time ever, and am actually being told, all I need to do is either practice in pve (the troll response) or buddy up w/ a team to “carry me” (I exclusively solo q and don’t like team pvp, tho I can do it), take a break of several weeks until the “good players” get their legendaries and stop playing (and I get to continue getting matched up w/ garbage teams), or quit. The latter sounds most appealing, tho I love gw and don’t want to. I am soldiering on at the moment, but it is very demoralizing. Especially all the talk about all the “skilled players” having reached their appropriate placements and all of us “less skilled players” sinking to our bottom feeder placement. So sad. So demoralizing. It would actually be less demoralizing if I did suck, cuz I am ever the realist, and don’t mind at all being sucky at stuff, or new to stuff. I would practice then and beat it. But this seems like it has NO FIX!

LOL Danika – I also got r 12 HoH/HA, max rank alliance pvp, max Codex, max GvG, max FA/JQ, and R 10 TA in addition to r 12 RA. RA was DEFINITELY the hardest, least gimmicky, most random, most skilled based pvp I ever had to do period (in GW). Go try it out. Play it legit. 100% RA solo q. Tho bear in mind when I did it, there were no buffs or advancements for successive wins.

So w/e. I guess your implication is that I suck. But I don’t think so. Im not here to brag. Im here to establish that surely w. all this experience at pvp, including dragon rank in gw2, almost diamond last season, I am not so BAD that I should be sustaining what is now a 69 game losing streak. Please.

Darknicrofia.2604:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

I got rank 12 by doing pvp in RA – solo que – totally random – the hard way. NO ts.

lol you meant rank 12 gladiator?

I thought you meant rank 12 HA/Tombs for a sec.

lol RA is not even real pvp