Guild Wars 2

critickitten.1498:

Whack away at that straw-man. It’s not doing you any good.

I think you’re confusing the difference between a straw-man and an intentional point. No worries, though.

critickitten.1498:

That doesn’t mean that the people getting paid don’t care about it. I’m pretty sure they do, if it means their game stays running. They aren’t going to make a decision that decimates their popularity and population significantly. And while you can continue to pretend that this is merely “doom-saying”, it’s not. It’s experience. Other MMOs have done this before. It’s not a new or surprising notion that if players stop getting rewarded, they stop playing. And I’m fairly certain that these evil loot farmers are funding the game more than you and your “crowd” are, by simple fact that they are the majority.

Yes, you’ve made it clear several times now that you will take your business elsewhere should the loot be removed from these open-world boss events. And I’ll say to you the same thing I said to someone else earlier: Players like me want to play the content because games should be challenging, enjoyable, and fun. Players like you have made it clear you’re just here for the loot. And so you already have one foot out the door, because what are the odds that you will continue to stick around these open-world boss events once the loot offered by them becomes outdated or no longer needed by you?

Zero, apparently.. since you keep claiming you’ll abandon them if the loot is removed. Not only that, but since many are claiming their only remaining link to the game is the loot provided by these boss events.. I guess a bunch of you will be searching for another game once those boss-chest rewards become outdated. Which type of player do you think any sane developer is more interested in investing in long-term?

critickitten.1498:

Something did change….they increased the amount of loot, after months of people pointing out how sub-standard it was.

Now you’re mad because all of those evil greedy players are spoiling your fun. Never mind how much fun they might be having!

Please explain the nature of your “fun”. What exactly is it you’re appreciating while participating in an event where the number of players showing up generally requires you to arrive in the zone at least 30-60 minutes early during prime time to reserve a spot, server performance is struggling because of the number of players in the area (likely 2/3rds of which can not even be seen at any given time due to culling), and the boss dies in a handful of minutes via a slaughter that could not be labeled as an “epic battle” by any stretch of the imagination?

Is it the “exciting” event you find fun? Or that practically risk-free reward at the end? Just curious.

Aequitas.6402:

Alternatively, they could just do it like with the miniatures – just add a ‘fashion’ tab in your bank where you can store your clothes.

They could, but it’s a drag going back to the bank whenever you want to switch outfits.

I have to admit, I’m not a fan of seeing people running around in a costume while adventuring. And the more silly the costumes get, the less I’ll like it. I just have this idea that heroes should like heroes and not clowns.

My apologies to any clowns reading this that are also heroes.

Anyway, if a change like this were to happen, I would appreciate having an option on my client to disable costume visuals from my perspective. I don’t care if you look like a clown, so long as I can’t see it.

I have nothing against clowns.

Lynne.8416:

I’m sorry OP, but I have to disagree with you. Anet allows you to play the game your way. IF you choose to PvE via the hearts plus follow all of the chain events. Then you can be in “awe” when monsters like the shatterer appears.
But there are those that choose to level their characters via WvW or Dungeons then try to get additioanl “loot” by farming each “chest spawning” monster.
The problem with your suggestion is that now you are depriving PvE only people their ability to receive decent drops.

It is impossible to be “in awe” when monsters like the Shatterer appear when the sheer number of players present combined with the game’s inability to handle them results in a completely lackluster experience.

So, where is your pity for the players who are being deprived an epic experience?

As others have helpfully suggested, for those players that are only attending for the loot.. there are other ways to get loot out to them. And I guarantee you that is going to be an easier route than providing a whole new set of “epic experience only” content for players who are just after fun gameplay.

In other words, it’s easier to move the gimme-gimme-loot crowd somewhere else than it is to recreate a set of additional epic world-boss content for adventure-loving players. Frankly, the former bunch would be satisfied with just visiting a rare-drop vending machine. Less demand on the server, too.

Goloith.6349:

I’d like to know the answer to this too. It looks like you can legitimately multibox below:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/account/Policy-3rd-Party-Programs-Multi-Boxing-Macros/first#post354869

What’s giving you that impression? Maybe we have different definitions of multiboxing, but what you want to focus on here is stipulation #4 :

Dual- or Multi-Boxing

1. You may use more than one account at the same time.
2. You may use more than one computer at the same time.
3. You must be actively playing on each account.
4. And as stated above, you may not program your keyboard to perform functions on more than one account at a time.
a. For example, if you press W on your keyboard to move forward, a single character on a single account should move forward. The keystroke or mouse click should not perform functions on more than one account.

edit: why in the world did this get moved to the Suggestions forum? Players Helping Players would have been better.

Quick Mouse.7635:

Edge.4180:

If I’m a level 80 character that is just beginning crafting, I need to be able to go to low level zones and obtain low level crafting resources. Obtaining T6 mats would be of no direct use to me.

Aside from that, you can already obtain equipment drops suitable for your actual level no matter how low your level is being downscaled. My level 80 character received a level 80 shield off a level 4 spider just a few days ago.

This is somewhat true, but lower level mats are so cheap your time is probably better spent doing 1 run of CoF and just buying the mats you need, and probably still have gold left over

Not really. It’s been my experience that lower level resource drops come much more quickly and easily. I can get T1 blood every other kill, if not nearly every kill. I can’t say the same about T6 blood.

And not all of those lower level resources are cheap, particularly some of the mid-level ones.

Why not take your own advice? Take the lower level resources you’ve farmed, sell them, use the coin to buy the higher level resources you need. There’s even mystic forge recipes to upgrade material tiers.

Quick Mouse.7635:

Also, like the above poster said you can get lvl 80 items in low-level zones, but you also get mostly low-level items.

That has really not been my experience at all. If anything, I feel like I mostly get drops for my own level (which, can actually be annoying if you’re hoping to salvage lower tier cloth and leather).

Water mobs definitely have their own invulnerability bugs that need attention. I have mobs in the water going invulnerable on me for seemingly no reason, even when I fight them at their spawn location and am in melee range with them.

If I’m a level 80 character that is just beginning crafting, I need to be able to go to low level zones and obtain low level crafting resources. Obtaining T6 mats would be of no direct use to me.

Aside from that, you can already obtain equipment drops suitable for your actual level no matter how low your level is being downscaled. My level 80 character received a level 80 shield off a level 4 spider just a few days ago.

I do agree that we’re still too powerful when down-scaled.

Baolun.8316:

The Secret World (which was designed from the start to have a cash shop selling loads of different outfits) also has a good solution to this – your wardrobe is its own window, where you select, say, pants, and then pick from a list of all the different pants you own. Clothing never takes up any room in your bags, just goes straight to the wardrobe when you buy it.

I strongly recommend this type of system to any game that plans to make money selling costumes.

This is really the type of change I’d prefer to see.. being able to access any town clothing purchased on my account from any character, at any location, at any time, without it using up any “physical” space while in storage.

Were that the case, I’d probably be buying town clothes as fast as the developers can make them.

Ghanto.9784:

Oh no, we are “getting it”. We just don’t think you’re getting the fact that AN isn’t going to give people LESS incentives to do the events because you and a relative few others want them for yourselves – to do just for fun, I guess.

You might be unpleasantly surprised. See, you have players like me who want to play the content because games should be challenging, enjoyable, and fun. And players like you who want to play these events just for your loot handout. The latter also seems fond of threatening to quit the game if said loot is removed from these open-world boss events.

Do you know what that means? It means you already have one foot out the door. So, what are the odds that you will continue to stick around these open-world boss events once the loot offered by them becomes outdated or no longer needed by you?

Zero, apparently.. since you keep claiming you’ll abandon them if the loot is removed. Not only that, but since many are claiming their only remaining link to the game is the loot provided by these boss events.. I guess a bunch of you will be searching for another game once those boss-chest rewards become outdated.

So, now that you understand that, why don’t you ask me again which type of player I think any sane developer is more interested in investing in long-term.

Ghanto.9784:

But after you do it for fun once or twice, what will be YOUR incentive for wanting to keep going back and doing them? How many times could you kill a boss before it wasn’t very much fun anymore?

Before you know it, hardly anyone except some new players or existing players with new characters would ever be doing them – and they in turn would abandon them once they’d done them once or twice and the fun factor had run out. The end result would be a bunch of bosses/events that very few people would have any interest in – and then they’d be crying for new content, which in turn they’d find something to come on here and complain about.

Well, let’s see.. if I find an event entertaining, I pretty much participate in it whenever it happens to trigger around where ever I happen to be playing. You know, because I’m playing for the fun gameplay and not strictly for the loot. So, I guess you could say my participation in these boss events will only be limited by my random lack of presence in a given area.

Fortunately, these events can be beaten by a handful of players who happen to be in the area, so neither your presence nor mine is required.

Seriously, you’re trying to paint a picture where events just aren’t ever getting done without treasure chest lures, and that’s just not happening, even with the events that only offer XP, coin, and karma for a reward.

Ghanto.9784:

The bottom line is that there has to be some compelling reason, and a utilitarian one, for the player base in general to want to KEEP doing these events over and over, and any alternative that is just as compelling as loot drops would result in the same kinds of problem people are already complaining about here – they’d just be complaining about the new alternative instead of loot.

You seem to be describing a “grind” scenario. I think ArenaNet is trying to move away from those. Granted, they’re doing a poor job at implementing it, but at least they’re saying that’s the goal and trying to improve.

Blude.6812:

Basically if you don’t like don’t do it, but nerfing it for the people that like it isn’t the answer.

Actually, I do like doing world-boss events, but they’re being spoiled by the problems that have been detailed in this post, most of them occurring when too many players attend the event.

I’m curious where you’re “nerfing it for the people that like it isn’t the answer” philosophy was when my enjoyment of these events was nerfed by introducing the recent loot changes – which in turn ruined my enjoyment by attracting more bodies to these events? Because I liked these events, pre-patch, a lot more than I like them now.

Sure, there were still problems before the loot change, but they’ve only been made worse by improving the loot on the proverbial lures.

Does your philosophy change depending on which way the benefits are blowing?

Bartas.4908:

I finished whole stage 2 with dulfy.ney help in less than an hour today. Do not get OP point at all.

I think your method of finishing it may actually be the point.

Vayne.8563:

It’s a good analogy if some people like it. My wife likes it. I don’t particularly but it’s her kind of thing. She likes searching for stuff. There ARE clues in game, once you read stuff and look around. It’s like those very very old fashsioned adventure games where you had to find stuff. And people BOUGHT those games. Not me, because it wasn’t my thing, but my wife loves finding stuff. It becomes a challenge to her.

And it’s not quite a needle in a haystack. You do know the zone and you know the approximate place it spawns…ie, along the refugees trail.

Actually, no. The potential spawn locations for these items (which are randomly chosen for each server) are within the spawn locations for the Dredge/Flame Legion invasion events. They’re not along the refugee trail, many of these are far from it. And there are no clues beyond being told which zone they’re in.

Had their actually been clues, then it might have actually been cool. As it stands, it literally is just holding down CTRL while running around from one invasion event spawn to the next (because that’s about the only way you’re going to see it).

Aberrant.6749:

Yup these events have been ruined by farmers. It’s very common to be place in overflow on your own server due to guests who only want their rare/chance at a precursor. One look at the price of ecto’s to see how many more rares are being farmed from these now mindless events.

What’s silly is that you can easily make more doing CoF… but then these players couldn’t just afk and watch TV with auto attack going…

Yes, it’s not like there aren’t other ways of earning loot out there, it’s just that they’re not as effortless as logging in and whacking on the proverbial loot pinata for a few minutes.

Death Reincarnated.3570:

edge

You’re speculating, and ArenaNet denies it.

Back in reality, however, what has actually happened is the addition of more ways to remove ectoplasm from the economy.

Didn’t we "speculate’ that loot drops were kittened up before the patch? Proove me wrong. Go play PvE (non meta boss or dragon events) for a week and see how many yellows, heck even greens, you get. Oh and lets see how much trash/nothing you get in between.

Either I have hit DR or the loot distribution is more kittened up (for me) than before.

I received a level 80 rare on the first mob I smacked yesterday. I think it was a level 4 spider. No, I am not kidding. I said to a friend on voice-chat “Sweet.. rare on my first kill”, so I happen to remember it.

I play about an hour or two a night and (if actively participating in events or what not) get at least one rare a session.

However, what does that really prove beyond the fact that rares still drop? Instead of me wasting time “proving you wrong”, why don’t you just prove you’re right? You, after all, seem to be the one with something to prove.

I think it was a mistake to advertise the entire event at all, particularly as some kind of “living story”. I get that they wanted to a) advertise something for February’s content and b) justify the work put into it.

Problem is.. they’re going on about this “living story” with this living, breathing, evolving world and I’m thinking “Isn’t this the type of thing the game was supposed to have from the start”? To me, this is just the type of content I always expected to be a part of the game, not some new side project. Maybe they over-hyped this sort of mechanic prior to launch; makes it hard to appreciate its introduction now.

I would rather point to the Flame and Frost event and say “oh.. yeah, this is the sort of thing you find in GW2 every day.”

Ghanto.9784

.. basically getting good drops is a valid and compelling motivator for people to kill bosses. You and all the other “horizontal progression” fans need to wake up and realize that, despite you being a very vocal minority, most people who play the game aren’t going to kill bosses or do any of these other events just to get cosmetic goodies to show off their cool looks or do it for some kind of bragging rights.

If I can step in here.. I definitely realize that. I think I’ve clearly stated more than a few times that attracting less people to these events is actually the goal, partly because the numbers being attracted to the event now are creating problems and draining the fun from these boss events.

To steal a response from you.. you and all the other “I will take my ball and play elsewhere” people need to wake up and realize that these events can be completed with a fraction of the number of players attending them now. You’re presence is not needed there to complete them. In fact, you’re only ruining the experience for people who are not strictly there for loot. And, personally speaking, I don’t mind if you stop coming, because I would very much like to start enjoying this content rather than being trapped in a mindless, loot-hungry zergfest.

I don’t understand why people aren’t getting this. It’s like you keep threatening me with outcomes that I’m actually hoping for. What do you expect me to say? “No, wait.. don’t go..”

Not trying to be a jerk, it’s just you guys really need to find another “downside” for your counter-arguments. If ArenaNet can find a way to improve these events so the risk matches the reward, and countless numbers can assault a single point without performance issues or difficulty scaling failing.. then by all means, keep the loot and stick around. If not.. I’m ok with you finding somewhere else to farm loot.

XxTAFxX.6741:

[edit] that vid you posted i don’t see any lag,and someone died lol.

Yeah, it helps when the game only renders a fraction of the players actually in the area.

SadieDeAtreia.8912:

OP tl;dr:

Stopped reading right there. Why do you think I would ever read any further when you announce right off the top that you can’t be bothered to read what I’ve written?

That’s just silly.

Death Reincarnated.3570:

edge

Rare loot has been improved in that now there is (much) more of it entering the system through these boss chests…

And concurently removed from other parts of the game. This is the only logical way to let player have what they want without “destroying” the “precious” economy.

I’ll bet that, in general, players receive the mob drop chest less, they receive more salvageble junk than greens/yellow, and increase in sellable junk or nothing when playing PvE.

I know what I see, and it smells suss to me.

You’re speculating, and ArenaNet denies it.

Back in reality, however, what has actually happened is the addition of more ways to remove ectoplasm from the economy.

Edge.4180:

Only time I have seen mobs go invulnerable is when they’re performing some scripted action (moving to a specific location, or forcing players to focus on a different phase of the fight like dodging asteroids, etc), or someone is attempting to exploit them (hitting them from a location where they can not hit back), or bugging out (usually underwater). The last one is the only part I see that needs fixing. The rest seem like non-issues and I don’t understand the complaint.

I just want to clarify on this comment I made earlier. Besides the obvious “fix the underwater bug” request I’m keen on, my main problem with the invulnerable flag is often in the way it’s presented.

There is an event-chain south of Lion’s Arch where a particular pirate enjoys raiding a particular burial site. Every so often she teleports to a specific location, goes invulnerable, and red warning circles begin to appear all over the ground.

I understand that she is invulnerable because we’re in a different “phase” of the fight.. the “focus on avoiding the exploding blasts and not the pirate” phase. My problem is that there is no in-game reason as to why she’s invulnerable, she just is. Why not throw a bubble effect around her, or have her temporarily vanish in an obvious puff of smoke? Something that says “I can’t be hurt right now, and here’s why”.

Because, really.. no matter how many times she does this there are always players blowing cooldowns on her while she’s invulnerable. The text “invulnerable” and the invulnerable state icon are clearly not getting the message across to these folks, and I really don’t see the harm in improving the presentation to make it all at least a little bit more rational.

A mob needs to go invulnerable as per part of the script? That’s fine. Just.. don’t be tacky about it.

XxTAFxX.6741:

Edge.4180:

If my goal was to just show up and collect my ecto, I guess I wouldn’t care. But that is not what I want these events to amount to.

you don’t always get an ecto unless you buy the 100% salvage kit,and even then you don’t always get one.
anet makes money if ppl buy 100% salvage kit for real cash.

Sorry, I have many stacks of those salvage kits tying up bank space and have never actually spent money on one. I get them as Daily rewards occasionally, so..

XxTAFxX.6741:

The other option is you have a stack of ectos already and now they are lower in price,so your stock is not as worth as much as it was before.

Tbh i think your a person that wants to control ectos prices on the tp,and this is why you’re kicking up such a fuss,it’s was never about the events imo.
that’s why you keep going on about nerfing the loot.

LoL. I must say, I find the different theories about my reasons to be amusing from a certain perspective, particularly when I’ve plainly explained my reasons in detail a number of times now. You can believe what you want to believe. I just can’t help but wonder what’s going through your head.. “He says he wants this content to be more fun.. but what kind of gamer really thinks that way? How ridiculous! Who does he think he’s kidding, and what’s his angle??”. Have fun with the analysis, I guess, you’re going to keep doing it no matter what I say.

XxTAFxX.6741:

Also the lag was always there before the change of the loot table so i’m not going to take that as an excuse.

I absolutely agree that the lag was there before the loot change. I also absolutely believe it has gotten worse since more people started showing up because of the loot change. Why does that surprise you?

XxTAFxX.6741:

And as for always going into over flow,well i’m on a very high populated server and i went there today 2 mins before claw was suppose to start and i was not put in overflow so that’s a lie as well.

Meanwhile, there were so many complaints and thread spawning about the overflow issue that they had to keep merging them into one mega-thread. I guess we have a forum full of liars or something..?

XxTAFxX.6741:

Give it up anet is not going to change it now.

Do you really think I expect ArenaNet to look at this thread and say “Huh.. we should remove loot from boss chests..”. Before you say the wrong answer, I will just tell you: no.

What I do expect them to do is what any good designer does: Look at a complaint/request and try to figure out what the actual problem is and the best way to go about fixing it. I’m well aware that developers often feel that players don’t really mean what they ask for, and that it’s the developer’s job to figure out what they really want.

In my case, I’m asking for an improved world boss experience. I’m offering a suggestion on how to get there because I want to at least put something forward and not simply come on here and rant (like so many of the posts in this thread are unfortunately doing). Hopefully others will put something forward as well.

Shousa.6870:

I for one think that any tactic that involves you having advantage is a good tactic. I can never grasp and probably wont the reasoning behind this invuln thing. They can sugarcoat however they want it, but it in my mind higher ground is the most basic logic behind any tactical warfare. If you can not attack me move away from me but in no way it shoud become invuln

This has been a necessary evil since back in Everquest. Whether it’s mobs becoming invulnerable, summoning you to them, or teleporting on top of you.. the gist of it is simple: players should never be able to attack a mob in a way that it can’t fight back. There is no reward without risk. You are not at risk when you stand on top of a roof and use ranged attacks on a creature being controlled by AI that is not smart enough to reach you or properly respond to the threat you represent.

Debsylvania.7396:

Edge.4180:

So that I can better understand, can you please explain what exactly it is you’re appreciating while participating in an event like “Secrets of the Swamp”, where the number of players showing up generally requires you to arrive in the zone at least 30-60 minutes early during prime time to reserve a spot, server performance is struggling because of the number of players in the area (likely 2/3rds of which can not even be seen at any given time due to culling), and the boss dies in roughly a minute’s time in a slaughter that could not be labeled as an “epic battle” by any stretch of the imagination?

As for your comment about rares, ectos are never out of style. I agree that most are always hoping for a precursor to drop, however (who wouldn’t).

I don’t know what game you’re playing, but in mine, I don’t have to show up early. I’m boggled that you say you have to reserve a spot. Really? Hmm. I have experienced no lag at all, either.

There are more people these days to fight the swamp boss (and the other dragons), but contrary to your description, they last considerably longer than a minute.

Are you taking your level 80 into the swamp? That could factor in to your experience somewhat. I’m sorry your experience is so dismal.

Sounds like there’s a population issue… or something going on… or maybe you’re exaggerating just a wee bit. At any rate, I’m having a good time as are the people I play with. You know what they say… YMMV.

From the moment he can first be targeted, he dies in roughly 1 minute and 20 seconds. And that group was going slowly enough that he actually almost got a second round of portals off.

Now, you can go to Youtube and find older videos of this event where people are dying and being revived, and the fight is lasting 10+ minutes.. would love to be in one of those Behemoth fights but I haven’t seen anything remotely resembling that since the last patch.

Debsylvania.7396:

I don’t “farm” these dragons. I probably kill each of them once or twice a week. I like doing it. I find it fun. Shame on me.

You are really not a part of the problem, then.

Debsylvania.7396:

If others “farm” them, I don’t begrudge them the time and trouble, nor the loot. I’m not going to spend my time trying to dictate how other people play. The only relevant or sensible thing I can do is enjoy the game, and when I stop enjoying it, I’ll move along to something else.

This is where we differ, though. Because when I arrive at a boss event looking for an awesome and exciting challenge that is made trivial and/or frustrating by the quantity of players farming these events.. it’s difficult for me not to resent their presence (and a number of other problems) because I came to enjoy something and am not.

If my goal was to just show up and collect my ecto, I guess I wouldn’t care. But that is not what I want these events to amount to.

OdinBudd.5298:

I think the people who are saying “where do you want people to farm” are dead on. ANet may not “want” farming, and may try to discourage people from doing it, but they still will and they will look for the fastest, easiest way to do it.

I don’t know where I’d want them to farm, but I know I would prefer what is potentially the most epic PvE content in the game to be the equivalent of a loot pinata joke. So, anywhere but on these world bosses, I guess.

I’m not sure what the solution is; it seems most suggestions require a minimum of two changes.

If the content is made more difficult (meaning it can continue to properly scale with the numbers of player showing up).. it might draw in fewer people, and at the very least they would be earning their rewards. However, that still leaves the problem of the servers being seemingly unable to handle any kind of heavy load without the presentation suffering.

These events are really at their best when there are fewer people present rather than many. How do you discourage players from zeroing in on any one single world-boss event without placing one in every zone or removing the lure (loot)? To be fair, each zone does have some sort of meta-event, but for whatever reason most seemed to be regarded as not cool enough to be at (even before the loot change).

Debsylvania.7396:

Edge.4180:

These events have become a joke. Nobody is there because they’re interested in the event, nobody is “saving the world”.. they’re only interested in the loot. I deserve more of a reward for completing an event like “Prevent the pirates from stealing supplies from the Priory camp” than a loot pinata like “Defeat Tequatl the Sunless”. People are attending these events for the wrong reason, a reason that sounds a lot like “I can get a rare for two minutes of work”. What a huge waste of design and potential.

You’re painting with a very broad brush. Please don’t presume to speak for everyone. I very much appreciate the presence of these world boss fights as well as the prizes doled out at the end. A rare at this stage of the game isn’t much more valuable than receiving a green, so it’s not like the rewards aren’t as over the top as you describe. The potential to win something better, a precursor for example, is part of the fun. I don’t understand why you begrudge this to so many.

So that I can better understand, can you please explain what exactly it is you’re appreciating while participating in an event like “Secrets of the Swamp”, where the number of players showing up generally requires you to arrive in the zone at least 30-60 minutes early during prime time to reserve a spot, server performance is struggling because of the number of players in the area (likely 2/3rds of which can not even be seen at any given time due to culling), and the boss dies in roughly a minute’s time in a slaughter that could not be labeled as an “epic battle” by any stretch of the imagination?

As for your comment about rares, ectos are never out of style. I agree that most are always hoping for a precursor to drop, however (who wouldn’t).

Only time I have seen mobs go invulnerable is when they’re performing some scripted action (moving to a specific location, or forcing players to focus on a different phase of the fight like dodging asteroids, etc), or someone is attempting to exploit them (hitting them from a location where they can not hit back), or bugging out (usually underwater). The last one is the only part I see that needs fixing. The rest seem like non-issues and I don’t understand the complaint.

KorbanDallas.7389:

Towards complaints about the loot drop being so good it brings everyone in : As a person who barely ever received green drops on my first character, it’s nice to feel rewarded after a tough battle with treasure that’s befitting of it. Before everyone showed up to the dragon events because of the loot issue, it felt extremely unrewarding to sink that much time on a single dragon (what with so few people helping), just to be rewarded with a box of some whites and a few blues (if I was lucky). The only reason I killed the dragons at all before was simply out of the drive to say I bagged all the dragon lieutenants (verbal bragging rights, yep).

I’m struggling with the parts of your comment because you used the word “tough” to describe these boss events. There are maybe a handful that can be classified as non-facerolling or even challenging, but the majority of them are far too easy when large numbers of players are participating in them. Some of the stages of these boss events are powered through so quickly that you can literally miss them before you hit something, the toughest part being getting credit for participating.

As for “a box of some whites and a few blues (if I was lucky)”, I must be extremely lucky, because I have never seen anything worse than a blue from a dragon chest. Now we’re getting guaranteed rares, and the truth is there are far more challenging normal events out there that don’t reward a box of 6+ pieces of equipment (including a guaranteed rare).

Avatar.1923:

here is a quesion for all of you;

we KNOW FOR SURE that there is a lot of PVE FARMERS in this game who will always go where there is the MOST REWARD, because they are ok with repeating content for ever.

so, WHERE do we put these guys?
right now its world bosses and maybe some dungeons.
considering itll be impossible to balance everything perfectly, where would you prefer to put the high reward pig pen so that this fat amount of players dont ruin the content, or, even better, improve it?

I absolutely love your question and hope it sparks a better discussion going forward. +1 from me.

I think this is likely most frustrating for role-players, who (without reasonable, non-forced in-character reasons) view the activity as immersion breaking. Despite the fact that some will just laugh at anyone role-playing a character in a role-playing game………. I think the frustration is reasonable.

They can always choose another Daily task, but when the choice for a fifth boils down to ambient killer or something they personally loathe doing even more.. you have one of those “stuck between a rock and a hard place” situations, which no one enjoys.

Lafiel.9372:

What is “the wrong reason to do a world event”. I ran into a world even by chance and did it. Is that a wrong reason to do it? Should I have gathered my hatred over days and days, sworn revenge for my dead parents who sent me to the circus at a young age and waited day and night for jormag to spawn only to kill him and loot that corpse full of wonderful blue items which the generous merchant bought off me for 70c.

No, there’s nothing with “running into a world event by chance” and participating in it. In my opinion, that’s a great reason to jump in on a boss event.

There’s also nothing wrong with killing mobs for loot. However, let’s review some details:

• 1) Upwards of 30 – 50 players (or more) are showing up at these boss events, in a game that can not currently handle that many players participating in the same battle without creating performance and lag issues, and for events that do not currently scale in difficulty properly to present a challenge that justifies the rewards being given.

• 2) Many of these players stand around idle for 30 – 60 minutes prior to the event beginning, essentially competing for a PvE resource (in a game that is supposed to remove competition in PvE) as they attempt to reserve a spot at the event and not end up in overflow. The entire time they contribute nothing to the zone beyond pushing the map towards its population capacity, and potentially creating a situation where active players attempting to play the game are winding up off their home server and away from their home communities, and reduce the number of active players available for other events in the zone.

• 3) Many of these players move from boss event to boss event, from character to character, and even from server to server via the guesting function to farm rewards from as many of these events as possible.

• 4) Most players are participating in these events solely for the item rewards and care little about the event beyond that. Meanwhile, the players who are trying to show up at these events because they seek challenging, epic boss content in a server environment that can perform reasonably well.. they’re not getting that because of the points listed above.

Like I’ve said before, I like to see a treasure chest waiting for me at the end of my boss kills as much as the next person. But when that treasure becomes the focus of so many players, to the point where it starts to lure so many people in at a level that causes problems and such a toxic atmosphere.. there’s a problem.

Do people enjoy receiving loot? Definitely. Do people enjoy spending upwards of an hour camping a spawn point just so they can lag through an event for several minutes with a level of participating that amounts to just tapping your “1” key repeatedly? I honestly doubt it, and I think anyone being reasonable can say the same.

Unfortunately, they will continue to do so as long as the loot and said event are linked, and I feel that attaching an overly attractive lure to a disappointing, monotonous, non-fun task can potentially create a situation where players will eventually just become disgusted with (what they believe is) the only content worth doing, and eventually the game itself.

So, IF the boss events were actually fun and challenging..

..and IF they attracted smaller numbers of players, OR could adequately handle (in terms of performance and maintaining the proper level of challenge) the larger numbers they’re currently attracting..

..and IF they’re not creating a situation where particular maps are consistently pushing players off their home server, robbing resources from other events on the map and generally lowering the quality of play in that zone for all the players who are not standing around idle waiting on a boss spawn..

..then yeah, I’m all for boss events with treasure. But do you see that happening anytime soon? What’s very frustrating is this: if these things could be improved by simply introducing an easy, magic fix.. I suspect everyone in this thread would be demanding that it happen. But as soon as that “easy, magic fix” = removing loot from boss encounter, greed kicks in and people are all like “what problem..? I love camping bosses under these conditions.. everything’s fine.. move along, nothing to see here”.

(sigh)

I never said it was the best solution, but it would be nice if someone looked beyond the danger of losing their shinies and offered a better one. Too much entitlement getting tossed around and not enough problem solving. And, unfortunately, some of the problem solving (performance issues) is on ArenaNet’s end.

Lafiel.9372:

Why are people complaining about good loot. Is it because you don’t have time to do these events as much as other people and you’re selfish so you want these guys not to have the ability to do these kind of things too because putting more time in the game and getting rewarded more is unfair.

Or is it because you’ve made certain investments on certain items which have had a significant drop in price and you want anet to revert their changes so you can reap the benefits?

Seriously, these are the only two kinds of people I can imagine who “dislikes” good loot on world bosses.

No, not at all. I stated my personal reasons clearly in the first post of this thread and all subsequent posts I made since then. Anything you’re reading beyond that is coming solely from you.

(cont)

Ema.4953:

Americans get most things their way – take the lost shores for example that whole thing was done to purely suit US players. I personally think it’s good that the resets don’t happen in my peak playing time

LoL. Uh, no. The Lost Shores event kicked off in the middle of a work day for U.S. players. There was a ton of angry/frustrated posting about it at the time. It wasn’t done “purely to suit U.S. players”, more like “in spite of”.

For pete’s sake, almost every time they put out a patch, it happens right during the U.S. prime-time (evening) hours.

I’m pretty sure in theses cases it’s whatever is most convenient for ArenaNet.

Death Reincarnated.3570:

Since the patch I have gotten two piles of vial essence…these were the only two rares. The rest was 1/4 if not 1/3 junk/nothing, much less greens, fairly the same number of blues and whites and slightly more recyclable items.

The only way to get rares/exotics now is to do dragons and/or meta-events.

Loot has not been improved – it was reshuffled.

They have not reshuffled loot; they did not lower drop rates on normal mobs. Random is just random. It’s the same kind of random that makes me feel like ecto salvage rates have been nerfed, even though they haven’t.

Rare loot has been improved in that now there is (much) more of it entering the system through these boss chests. I mentioned this earlier but between just the Shatterer, Tequatl, the Maw, and the Shadow Behemoth alone, there are more than 44,000 rare or better items being generated each day on the U.S. servers. And that’s just a handful of events with very generous calculations (for example, it only assumes there are 25 people at each of those event, and anyone who has been attending them recently knows there are far more than that present).

And that’s only, what.. 4 out of 15 (?) outdoor bosses that drop a guaranteed rare now? Imagine how high that number really is.

Shadow Blade.1324:

Edge.4180:

Whether you agree or not, characters are idle when they’re standing around waiting for 30-60 minutes or more for a boss to spawn. When I refer to “taking up space”, I’m not talking about other people waiting in line to camp the boss, I’m specifically talking about space that could be used by players who simply have a desire to adventure in that zone. I’m mentioning this because you’re trying to argue that removing these “boss campers” will actually hurt the zone, an argument which is difficult to take seriously when most of the time these idle campers are not helping the zone in any shape, way or form.

not sure i understand what your trying to argue. new players in an overflow not playing to do that event and just adventure can do so in the overflow with no problems, in fact they have a better experience because there are less players zerging events. the whole community argument is BS as their friends can join them in the overflow and you can guest on any server ergo communities are cross server anyway, additionally you get dropped in overflow even when there are no big events going on or in LA. due to population numbers.

You may be unaware, unaffected, or simply don’t care. But many of these communities have unofficial designations. And while they are by no means official or supported, many players do pick particular servers for particular reasons. When they can’t play on those servers (because of population issues that have been created with recent changes) amongst other players who made the same choice for the same reasons, it can be frustrating.

This is a U.S. problem, unfortunately, not an ArenaNet issue. We’re the ones changing the clocks. Can’t just shift things around for us and cause a shuffle for the rest of the world.

IndigoSundown.5419:

I don’t believe that better chest loot was put in to make people go to otherwise under-utilized zones.

• There are under-utilized zones with no chest events.
• Chest events encompass a small fraction of the area of the zone; players coming to a zone only for a chest provide little impact on the “feeling” that a zone is thriving.
• Another mechanism was put in to address zone emptiness, area focused dailies.

Chest loot was increased to address a different problem. As much as ANet likes singular solutions that address multiple problems, chest loot was increased to address complaints about loot, not complaints about zone population.

I agree with this. In fact, between just the Shatterer, Tequatl, the Maw, and the Shadow Behemoth alone, there are more than 44,000 rare or better items being generated each day on the U.S. servers. And that’s just a handful of events with very generous calculations (for example, it only assumes there are 25 people at each of those event, and anyone who has been attending them recently knows there are far more than that present).

And that’s only, what.. 4 out of 15 (?) outdoor bosses that drop a guaranteed rare now? Thing in, if getting better loot out to the masses is really the goal, there are other ways to do that while still reducing the popularity of these boss events. Even just tweaking the drop rates on normal mobs can give us the same results, without ruining (what are supposed to be) some pretty cool boss events in the process. Might even lure some more max-level players out to Orr or Southsun.

Of course, that means players just can’t obtain tons of loot with minimal effort (something we shouldn’t be able to do anyway).. they actually have to work for it, and the entitlement crowd is likely to be against even that.

XxTAFxX.6741:

What i’m saying is take away the loot and it affects all dynamic events with chests.
not just the dragons.
Hence why mel and grenth gets done quite often now,where before they did not get done at all,unless a big guild wanted some karma gear from there.

I would not bother doing mel or grenth because the rewards would be rubbish.
now i do them most of the time.

So anet has done the right thing,the only thing they should do is make it so you only get one rare rather than able to get 2 or 3 sometimes.

As for the lag on dragons,that was happing way before the loot change anyway,so that’s why i never bothered to do them.
So that had nothing to do with the big zergs now.

However, those big zergs are only making the performance issues (and fun experience) worse, not better. And the number of people participating in them has only grown since the loot changes.

I actually don’t have a problem with temple events having treasure chest rewards. They are difficult events compared to some of these other encounters we’ve been using as examples in these thread, they’re difficult to camp because they’re less predictable (and my problem with camping is that people doing it excessively aren’t contributing to the zone), and a lot of effort is required to conquer them.

For those reasons, they’re less popular. And maybe that’s all we need to fix the other events (like the Behemoth, Shatterer, Tequatl, Maw, etc).. but let’s be clear about this: whether it’s applying that formula or removing chest loot.. the goal is to make the events I just mentioned less popular, because right now they’re too popular for their own good, and for all the wrong reasons (the rewards are ridiculously out of balance with the risk).

According to some people in this thread, any kind of fix that corrects that balance can not happen without the universe (or at least this game) imploding. I disagree.

Critickitten, for the sake of the discussion in this thread, this is the last time I’m going to humor you with a response. Going back and forth with you on these strawman attacks of yours are bloating the thread unnecessarily. And at this point I think you’re just trying to derail it intentionally, which I will not have a hand in.

Whether you agree or not, characters are idle when they’re standing around waiting for 30-60 minutes or more for a boss to spawn. When I refer to “taking up space”, I’m not talking about other people waiting in line to camp the boss, I’m specifically talking about space that could be used by players who simply have a desire to adventure in that zone. I’m mentioning this because you’re trying to argue that removing these “boss campers” will actually hurt the zone, an argument which is difficult to take seriously when most of the time these idle campers are not helping the zone in any shape, way or form.

If anything, they are actually causing harm. For example, when a new player (or new character) arrives in Queensdale to adventure and ends up on an overflow server because thirty to fifty or more slots are being tied up by players who are standing around in the swamp spending 30-60 minutes out of every 2 hour spawn cycle camping the Behemoth, these new players/characters are being separated from their chosen community to make room for loot farmers. That’s not a good enough reason. It’s not good for the player, and it’s not good for his home server. It may be good for you and your loot stash, however.

There is much more to this topic than the potential problems of overflow (which has its own threads on this forum), and those points have been detailed from the start, but it’s ridiculous to expect it won’t get mentioned when you’re putting forth nonsensical statements implying that these zones can’t function without campers who aren’t contributing anything to the zone besides a body count that causes it to reach maximum occupancy sooner rather than later. That is the extent of the overflow argument as far as it pertains to the topic of this thread. And anything you’re reading beyond that is a product of your own imagination.

critickitten.1498:

Edge.4180:

I guess you haven’t considered that since roughly a half hour (is it even that much?) of idle time is allowed, all a player has to do is alt-tab into the game long enough to tap “W” or “S” (assuming those are mapped to your movement keys) every half hour to remain online. So, yes, people can idle just fine.

Psst. It’s not actually idling if they have to regularly “check in” and move their character a little to be considered active. That means they have to be at the computer and checking the window regularly to stay logged in. Sorta the opposite of what an idle player does.

Perhaps you should explain to everyone the exact amount of time a player has to be inactive in the game before you consider applying the label “idle” to them.

critickitten.1498:

Edge.4180:

Whether they are actually doing that, or just standing around actively monitoring the boss spawn and chatting with their friends/guild, they’re not contributing to the activities happening in the zone while they’re parked there, and thus their presence definitely won’t be missed if they’re no longer coming to the zone. You seem to be arguing that the zone will collapse without them, that it will become a wasteland where there aren’t enough hands around to help with events, and that is ridiculous. Because these people camping the events aren’t helping anyone beyond themselves.

I’m arguing that the maps will be nearly empty without that regular influx of people, yes.

And judging from the responses in this thread being overwhelmingly against your idea, I’m probably right.

If, by “nearly empty”, you mean fewer people doing nothing but standing around at the boss spawn point waiting for the event to start, and in no way making any contribution to the zone.. then yes.

critickitten.1498:

Edge.4180:

No, sorry. If you actually want to know what my entire thread is about, read the first post in it. No speculating required; I laid it out pretty plainly. I even predicted the response I would get and what kind of players would be opposed to it.

It’s like magic.

Ah, but that’s clearly not what you made the thread about. Your arguments make that rather clear. You’re sick of being put into an overflow because of all these people that you perceive as “useless” eating up your slots. You don’t like how you can’t play the event because other people got there before you and are (in your opinion) “camping” the location for loot. Even though the newest patch makes it impossible to camp the bosses because they’re limited to one chest per day.

Can you point out the post in this thread where I said I was sick of being put into overflow? Sure, I imagine most people picked their server for a reason and prefer to play on it. But I think I’ve been pretty clear with my agenda in this thread and have not been rattling off complaints in it about “being sick of being put into overflow”. You seem to want it to be about that, though. Maybe you just feel that’s an easier position to attack. (shrug)

As for the rest, what you wrote:

critickitten.1498:

Unfortunately for you, you’re a minority, as this thread has clearly shown. This is a bad idea that makes the game significantly worse, and when even the people who regularly go out of their way to disagree with me on anything I say in this forum are actually agreeing with me on this, you should know that you’re wrong.

What I wrote umpteen posts again at the very start, before this thread had an opportunity to show anything:

Edge.4180:

(sigh) Unpopular post time.

I’m sure the community that just wants to be showered in rare and exotic drops will strongly disagree with this, but I really wish Arenanet would just completely remove chest rewards from these open-world boss events altogether.

As you can see, there are no revelations here (although you seem to be under the impression that you’re pointing one out). I am very much not surprised that people would object to an opinion that essentially results in “rarer” loot being less easy/convenient to obtain. I’m more likely to find plenty of players who think we actually deserve more loot even more easily than we can get it now. That doesn’t mean it’s a smart idea. That’s just the nature of the entitlement crowd.

critickitten.1498:

You do realize that it’s impossible to “tie up a map slot” without actually being at the computer that whole time, right? Because the game client automatically D/Cs anyone who idles in any map for a certain period of time (it’s usually a half hour or so), and so far as I can tell from my own testing of it, flipping through your character menu does not seem to count as “activity”. You have to move or interact with in-game objects to be considered not idle.

So your expressed “problem” of AFKers using up slots isn’t actually there. If you haven’t seen people moving, you haven’t stood there long enough to see if they’re actually standing perfectly still that entire time while their owner is AFK. I guarantee you that they’re not, because they’d D/C if they were.

I guess you haven’t considered that since roughly a half hour (is it even that much?) of idle time is allowed, all a player has to do is alt-tab into the game long enough to tap “W” or “S” (assuming those are mapped to your movement keys) every half hour to remain online. So, yes, people can idle just fine.

Whether they are actually doing that, or just standing around actively monitoring the boss spawn and chatting with their friends/guild, they’re not contributing to the activities happening in the zone while they’re parked there, and thus their presence definitely won’t be missed if they’re no longer coming to the zone. You seem to be arguing that the zone will collapse without them, that it will become a wasteland where there aren’t enough hands around to help with events, and that is ridiculous. Because these people camping the events aren’t helping anyone beyond themselves.

critickitten.1498:

Here, let me make one of my own and you can tell me how close to home this hits:

Your entire thread is a protracted complaint about how the guesting feature keeps pushing you into overflow. So you want to punish people who go to events for loot because they don’t play for fun like you do (never mind the notion that perhaps they consider it fun to gather loot, of course), and so the events are punishing and loot-less, only the people who play the game for fun will be willing to go to those maps, while everyone else will be running instanced content for their loots just like every other MMO out there.

No, sorry. If you actually want to know what my entire thread is about, read the first post in it. No speculating required; I laid it out pretty plainly. I even predicted the response I would get and what kind of players would be opposed to it.

It’s like magic.

critickitten.1498:

Edge.4180:

It’s difficult to take your arguments seriously because you keep making the mistake of equating “lowering open-world boss event participation” to “lowering game population”. Those are not the same thing. And, honestly, I think you keep making that mistake for dramatic effect.

When there is only one World Boss per map, yes, they most certainly are the exact same thing. Most people aren’t going to pop into Queensdale just to kill bandits. They go there because they’re a newer player or because they want to kill the Shadow Behemoth. If you make the Shadow Behemoth give no drops, Queensdale will start being a lot more empty as a result, because most people will have nothing to do there. And if the problem exists on every map in the game, then they’re not getting rewarded much at all, and other games start to look an awful lot more appealing.

I’m sorry, but that’s hilarious. First, we don’t need people “popping into Queensdale” to kill the Shadow Behomth, there are people who are already there because they want to play in Queensdale. Look.. Queensdale was doing just fine before the February patch that changed boss loot, and the Shadow Behemoth was frequently in a broken state and not spawning for days/weeks on end. The recent rush of population to kill him is not doing the Queensdale population any favors.

Who are you kidding? Sure, you’re partly correct when you say there will be a “lot less people”, but you forgot to finish the sentence. It should actually read “There will be a lot less people sitting around like a stump at Shadow Behomoth’s spawn point, tying up map slots that could be used by people who actually want to play in Queensdale.”. To which I say “Yay!”.

You make it sound like this game can not survive without its loot pinatas intact. What in the world were you doing with your playtime prior to the February patch? I can’t imagine how frustrated you must have been prior to leveling your first character up to the point where you could start camping level 80 rare drops. Oh, the nightmare that playing Guild Wars 2 must have been for you.

XxTAFxX.6741:

Also having 8 lvl 80’s the chests can soften the blow at times when i need to buy gear for my alts.
or need a load of ectos for crafting.
(but tbh i never farm the dragon events as i cannot be bothered with the lag.)

What you essentially seem to be saying is this:

1) These boss events are really only good for their loot.
2) You don’t like attending the boss events because you dislike the lag.

And, if accurate, that’s pretty close to what I’ve been stating is the problem with these events, and why fewer players need to be attracted to them. These boss events should not simply be about the loot, nor should they be a laggy mess that nobody enjoys.

One way to solve both of those problems is to remove the loot. Then, people are attending them for reasons other than loot, and they’re not as laggy because they’re not overpopulated (since we all know many people will simply not attend them without the lure of loot).

Fortunately, we don’t need to attract a ton of players to these events to complete them. They can be completed with just a handful of players, and those players that are attending the event are likely to find them a whole lot more enjoyable due to the improved performance and additional tactical options that open up once you remove the auto-attacking zerg.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

No, I do not monitor these events 24/7 but from my experience, most of the people who do them are just waiting for a precursor drop anyways and complain about blues/greens even before this loot system was put into place.

And that is a big part of the problem. I said this before: no designer works hard on one of these encounters thinking “I hope players are excited about the loot they might get from this..!”. That’s not the kind of appreciation and respect for the encounter they’re hoping players will have.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

I think a solution to your problem would be a way to fix the overflow/dragon lag. I think what you are suggesting is just a knee-jerk reaction to being unable to fight against a dragon due to the high population and you neglect the better solution of just figuring out a way for players to all make the dragon fight and not either lag or be put into overflow.

No, not at all. It’s actually a reaction to seeing upwards of 50 or more players camping these events for hours on end for a guaranteed rare and a chance at an exotic, many cycling through alts and even servers to tag as many of these boss events as possible.

It’s an activity that is consuming many a player’s game time, and anyone should be able to see that this kind of behavior can only be sustained for so long before players begin to loathe it. Nobody is having fun camping these bosses for extended periods and auto-attacking for two minutes once the bosses show up. They do it because they can do it, and in many ways feel that they need to do it because it’s being allowed and they can’t afford to miss out on the drops. Eventually, they will get sick of it, possibly to the point of growing disgusted with even the idea of logging in. And that’s bad for the health of the game.

That’s not even touching on the bad impression these events give to new players. The general consensus amongst the more vocal community seems to be that boss events are laggy loot pinatas. That’s not the message GW2 needs to be getting across.

critickitten.1498:

And any change which considers a lower game population to be a positive is probably not a good design choice.

It’s difficult to take your arguments seriously because you keep making the mistake of equating “lowering open-world boss event participation” to “lowering game population”. Those are not the same thing. And, honestly, I think you keep making that mistake for dramatic effect.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

The rest of the list, well, you didn’t respond to them so I can only conclude you conceded them as being valid points.

Now who is trying to score points on whom? Didn’t you scold someone twice recently in one of these threads for doing that to you?

No, I didn’t cover the other specific events in your list because I know you’re unable to monitor the status of all of them on your own server 24/7, much less all of the servers, thus making the list rather pointless. The truth is, you have no idea how often those locations are being completed.

Cripes, I have yet to participate in Laughing Gull Island because it has been broken on my server every single time I go by there, and I drop by that zone a lot.

critickitten.1498:

Edge.4180:

If by “most” you mean “more than half”, then sure.. probably. That is actually the goal, which.. apparently will work, according to you. I think I’ve been pretty open about suggesting there are simply too many players attending these events right now.

Ah, so your intention is to drive as many players away from the game as possible by making events less rewarding in a game where events are already poorly rewarded?

So, it is your intention to suggest that, without super-loot from these boss events, many players will leave the game?

I’m not going to retype it all because I already addressed the concern in your question here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Outdoor-boss-events-shouldn-t-drop-loot/page/2#post1603534

critickitten.1498:

You know what they say about assumptions.

You may have noticed that many events which spawn champion mobs, or which spawn a large number of mobs that aren’t killable with just a few people, don’t tend to get completed nearly as often.

And what do they say about assumptions, exactly? Because it sounds like you’re making a few yourself. Are you monitoring all the champion mobs in the world constantly to see if they’re ever being tackled? Most champions can be soloed, or killed by a duo or trio. Just because you pass them by with the thought that they’re “not worth it” doesn’t mean everyone else is.

critickitten.1498:

Time investment not being worthwhile is a factor in whether or not an event gets completed frequently. If you drain all of the rewards from open-world events, you will kill most people’s motivation to run them.

If by “most” you mean “more than half”, then sure.. probably. That is actually the goal, which.. apparently will work, according to you. I think I’ve been pretty open about suggesting there are simply too many players attending these events right now. I would prefer the people participating in these events are there because they’re interested in a challenging and fun event, not a guaranteed rare drop. Everyone in that latter category.. plenty of other things in this game for them to go do.

You spin it like it’s an danger I had not foreseen, when in reality it’s the entire goal I’ve pointed out numerous times.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I say unto you: Straits of Devastation. It is not uncommon to find it completely untouched as far as the three-front invasion scheme. It is not uncommon to find other Temples not taken, as well.

And that’s because it’s not at all uncommon to find the events in these chains breaking down in some way, making it difficult or impossible to complete them, which is why they keep getting patched. And you know this. In fact, they just fixed three more issues blocking the temple events in that zone in the last week and a half. And now players are struggling with a new problem brought on by the updated Orr mob skills.