Guild Wars 2

Chorel.1720:

Most of those small events you refer to take a couple minutes to complete. Dragons and other big boss events take 10-30 minutes to beat.

You’re exaggerating on the time by quite a bit, especially when talking about the state of these events currently (where they’re being zerged by upwards of 30 or more players).

Chorel.1720:

Why do something harder if you don’t get rewarded for it? If they spawned most people wouldn’t do them because they can get better exp/karma/money doing another event. You would have some doing the events but not the massive amount of people doing it now.

People like being rewarded. Who would have thought?

Why are you logging in to play a game? Hang on.. I answered my own question: You log on to play a game. We do that because playing games is fun, right? And people like to have fun, right? “Who would have thought?”, as you say. Seriously.. just wow. It sounds ridiculous whenever someone literally asks “where’s my reward for having fun?” . And if you’re about to suggest that these events aren’t fun.. then maybe you should reconsider your resistance to changing them.

Like I said earlier, these boss events can offer a little additional XP, karma, and coin to offset the additional time required in completing them. Maybe small buffs which persist within the current zone only (people scoff at that suggestion and yet are probably amongst the first to click on a guild banner buff). Or these encounters simply open up access to a karma vendor, or waypoints that are otherwise locked down, etc. Those are just quick and dirty suggestions; there are many things that can be offered besides a guaranteed rare and a chance at an exotic.

And if those suggestions don’t attract the numbers of players these events are currently attracting.. well that’s kind of the point. Because the current popularity (which is solely the result of gimme-gimme-greed) is ruining whatever fun these encounters could ever possibly offer on the merits of their own design. And no matter how well they are designed, that will never change until fewer people are participating in them.

ArenaNet needs to really take a hard look at this and ask the question “what’s the goal here?”. Because if the goal is to keep players occupied with repetitive loot acquisition and boss-event camping that is ultimately bad for the health of the game – mission accomplished. But if the goal is to provide quality entertainment, then these boss events have failed to do that in a big way, and they will continue to have that problem so long as players continue to be attracted to them for all the wrong reasons.

critickitten.1498:

No, you don’t find it fun. There are people out there who find it fun to play an event primarily for its rewards.

No, what you’re finding “fun” there is the reward, not the event. We could replace these boss events with me standing around handing a rare out to anyone that comes by and whispers me a joke, and you’d call that “fun” because you’re only there for the reward handout, not the experience. That’s the problem.

critickitten.1498:

What you are proposing is nothing less than the death of most open-world events, because instead of rewarding players for trying to run content (as any good game does), you are punishing them for not doing it. That doesn’t encourage people to play, it encourages them to find a new game.

Holy over-exaggeration. Maybe you haven’t noticed, but 99% of the events in this game do not offer you a chest reward at the end and are continually participated in regardless. And yet the world keeps on spinning..! Where is your “death of most open-world events”?

And, unfortunately, the new design seems to counter ANet’s philosophy.

I also worry this is going to turn into yet another one of those mini-games that throw you in a random group rather than allowing you to enter the instance with your friends.

(cont)

synk.6907:

World events in a non-instanced game world are going to attract tons of people. But catering to the community at large also means providing a reward for the participation. Look at the giant in Nageling — he has tons of health and takes a while to whittle down, even with a decent number of folks, while offering nothing more than typical event completion. Hang out in Diessa and count how many times someone notes the giant is up and folks respond with “not worth the effort” and the like. Because it’s not — the event offers nothing more than other events in the area provide for a reward but takes much longer to complete.

And yet, the Nageling is not always under the giant’s control. That’s because people do “bother” to defeat him. These people that think it’s “not worth the effort”.. that’s fine, because there are obviously enough other people who think it is since the event continues to be resolved even to this day.

And the same applies to these boss events. Contrary to popular thinking, these bosses do not require 50 players to defeat them. They can be beaten with a much smaller group, and that is all they ever need to attract. Even if the rewards were just a little extra karma, coin, and experience.. enough people in the area would take these events on (particularly if they were fun). And forget the upcoming redesign of these events.. the removal of the zerg alone is going to increase the challenge and the fun of these encounters. Even better, nobody is going to stand around for 30-60 minutes camping these events for a little extra karma/coin/xp because in the process of sitting around like a stump they’d be allowing other karma/coin/xp opportunities in the zone to go to waste.

I think one of the big disconnects with some of the people in this thread is that they’re convinced these events can’t be resolved without them or others of similar mind (either that, or they’re just nervous ArenaNet will test that theory), and that without the incentive of loot they’ll refuse to participate in that event. And I’m not saying “oh no!”, I’m saying “that’s fine”. Because life will go on without them, and these events will continue to be beaten whether those particular players choose to participate or not. Sure, the events may take a little longer to complete.. heaven forbid something like the Shadow Behemoth chain stretch out for 20-30 minutes (providing entertainment for the players involved the entire time) rather than being over in just 2 minutes after waiting two hours for it to spawn.

And the people who were just showing up for the loot, the ones who choose to no longer participate.. they’ll have to find another way to get their stuff. Maybe they’ll actually start spreading out around the world like ArenaNet wants instead of converging on specific points and going AFK. Some will threaten to just not play the game. And that’s ok too, those are just threats. Maybe some are even real, but I’m convinced that players can only maintain this stupid cycle of camping boss events for extended periods (to avoid overflow), and cycling through alts, etc, to squeeze in as many boss events as possible for only so long before it burns them out on the game completely anyway. What we have now is not only not fun, it’s not good for the health of the game long term.

synk.6907:

Exotic armor and weapon skins from dungeons are only available by running the explorable version of dungeons multiple times for even one piece, let alone a whole set. After the first run, is a player really doing this for fun? Isn’t this also a loot-oriented grind?

The difference with dungeons (beyond just the fact that there is a real danger to the characters, and players are having to work for their reward) is that no group’s dungeon is impacting the enjoyment of any other group’s dungeon. Everyone is separated into 5-man teams and playing independent of one another, which is not the same as an outdoor boss event where 30-50 or more players are converging on a single encounter and basically ruining the event for anyone who is not there mainly for the loot.

I said it before, but I’ll say it again: while the developers do plan to overhaul these events in an attempt to make them more fun, no change to the event itself is going to remove the frustrating performance issues players experience when an enormous amount of them converge on an area.

These are core technology problems that aren’t going away anytime soon. It’s not just a problem with “old events” that will be fixed when these events are reworked. We can assume at this point they have these problems in mind. And yet, take a look at the recent introduction of “The Gathering Storm” events. Raise your hand if you were one of the players out there on one of the days immediately following its launch, camped with dozens of other players out at the locations where Dredge/Flame Legion portals spawn, competing with everyone to tag mobs and finish off the related achievement while struggling with issues like lag and the sheer amount of firepower being thrown around.

These events are simply not fun when they’re overloaded with players, and they will always continue to be overloaded with players if anything beyond the smallest incentives are put into place. Dungeons don’t have this problem because of the restrictions on the number of players allowed into the instance. Open world bosses do.

(cont)

Dante.1508:

Edge.4180:

Dante.1508:

Because the rest of the game drops nothing…

Nothing? Really? I find it difficult to believe that you have obtained none of your gear outside of open-world meta-event chests.

Before the last patch (Feb) that implemented this, i had not seen a rare in open world in weeks (maybe a month) and i’d had one exotic drop ever in open world…one…in 1700 hours plus, you can say i’m exaggerating but i know the truth of it..

Before this Feb patch i was close to leaving Guildwars 2 because of the terrible drop rates i received, if they had not of implemented this i’d have dumped this game by now..

All my Equipment was earned from Crafting, Token Dungeons and the Trading post. I never got nice loot from chests till this last (Feb) Patch..

I play maybe two hours an evening and usually get at least one rare in that time (assuming I’m actually out killing monsters). But random is random, so there’s that.

However, the fact that you would quit the game over drop rates really tells me you are probably not the kind of player that appreciates a good adventure. Loot is obviously important to you (so important to you that it has caused you to think about leaving the game), and so I doubt anything I say that doesn’t include the phrase “buff drop rate” is not likely to appeal to you. Not trying to be offensive.. that’s just how I see it.

Kaizer.7135:

When I saw the Dragon boss fights I couldn’t wait to participate in them because they looked so awesome and fun to fight. Then when I got to fight one it was incredibly…….boring and unsatisfying, especially considering the VERY VERY VERY crap loot you’d get after it.

I’m glad you actually get something for sitting through a boss fight that the only strategy you need to use is mash skill 1 in the right spot.

They are boring, and a lot of the reason is because too many players are attending them. There are actually mechanics to these fights that go ignored and unused because in most cases the zerg can just overwhelm the event with minimal effort.

It’s one of the reasons I wish these events were less popular. And since it’s the loot that is making them too popular.. that’s why I suggest it needs to go. You would find these fights a lot more interesting if only 10-15 people were participating in them. Maybe to the point where you were more excited about the encounter, and less dependent on the loot as a consolation prize.

Tim.9850:

Getting rid of loot for boss events would be incredibly stupid and most people would agree with that. Either they changed something with their servers to cause this lag, or its due to guaranteeing a rare item for each fight, that has caused it.

If they got rid of good rewards for events, I would never do them again, and probably would stop playing totally. There are always new games coming out.

While I don’t agree that it would be stupid, I do agree that most people wouldn’t agree with this change. I believe I said that straight off at the start. At the same time, I also believe too many players have become focused on the loot. Too many players want rares and exotics to rain from the sky and don’t want to expend any effort for their rewards. With the current setup, these boss events are ridiculously easy, and yet people will actually argue that they deserve better rewards from them than we’re currently getting.

There is certainly no shortage of bad judgement out there.

Wryscher.1432:

Kintari.4172:

I agree with the general sentiment OP, but I probably would have stated it as “things that aren’t challenging shouldn’t give great loot, outdoor boss events currently are not challenging, especially when more players show up than the encounter was designed for”.

Giving loot from challenging outdoor boss events is all well and good, the problem is that these events right now are really non-events and require nothing more than the ability to fog a mirror.

This is the problem, not the loot. The Kriat event by teq is currently harder then a boss fight. Such a joke.

I doubt it would matter. The developers have already said they plan to work on these boss encounters this year to make them more engaging. We all know they scale poorly and most of them are pushovers when enough players are thrown at them. Even if/when they fix that, what they’re unlikely to ever anytime soon is the performance issues that occur when 50 or 100 players swarm a single event.

Right now we have an overabundance of participants because they all want loot, to the point where people are complaining about performance, lag, overflow, etc. What happens if/when the fights are made entertaining on top of that? The attendance isn’t going to drop, if anything it will go up and these problems get worse.

Well, I want loot as much as the next person. I also want these fights to not be so lame. And something has to give, because apparently we can’t have both. And I will choose cool boss encounters that don’t provide much in the way of digital rewards over, over lame boss encounters that are loot pinatas.

Sure, in a perfect world we’d have cool boss encounters that provide equally cool loot, and these servers could handle countless players converging on the same spot without rolling over and dying.. but that is not happening. It’s not working now, and it’s not going to work later. The current setup breaks too many of the game’s core philosophies. Were competing for resources, we’re just “swinging our sword again and again” through these encounters, and there is no appreciation for the event or the adventure anymore. People are just cycling through alts, events, and servers to tag as many of these bosses (for the loot) as possible. These bosses might as well spawn looking like a giant immobile treasure box that explodes into presents when you beat on it enough times.. we probably wouldn’t even notice the change.

I think they may have increased the population cap in these zones, because the performance seems even more ridiculous now.

critickitten.1498:

You’re the one who needs to visit Orr more often. On many servers, the temples remain locked for the majority of the game’s run time, until larger guilds come along to unlock the temples. I’ve done quick skims of Orr every time I’ve played and there is always at least two temples locked down on a regular basis, if not all of them. And my server isn’t a small server.

NEVER had a problem with temples except in cases where an event in the chain breaks down, which happens more frequently than it should. Always seems to be people interested in the karma vendor or just happening by and jumping in.

critickitten.1498:

So you want to make these events disrupt the map to such a significant effect as to make things extremely inconvenient for everybody playing the game….but you also want to remove all of the loot from these events so that people don’t feel even slightly inspired to bother doing them?

You basically want to force people to do the events or suffer the consequences, rather than doing them for the enjoyment or loot?

I….honestly have no idea what to say to this, so I’ll simply make one point:

You do realize that the primary reason most people don’t kill event-spawned Champion mobs in the world’s many maps is because they provide almost no valuable loot, right? May want to consider that before you suggest removing ALL open-world content loot from EVERY area in the game.

You are basically suggesting the death of all open-world event running.

You’re being a bit dramatic. You describe a game where nobody is completing events, and yet thousands of events are completed across these servers every day, and the only reward for them is a little coin, a little XP, and a little karma. You do realize some people just.. like to play the game, right?

You have also apparently never been to Orr, where parts of the zone shut down based on the status of events. And yet the world keeps on spinning..!

Seraki.2753:

Outdoor content gives people who are not connected to each other by guilds to enjoy group content with out pressure. Its an insanely great idea. Not only can people practice their skills working with others outside the pressure and sometimes psychodrama but often players do not feel like they are good enough to do dungeons until they improve their gear. With out the fun of playing dramatic content outside dungeons and pvp a lot of people would just leave, including my self.

What skills are you testing at these encounters?

And the following goes as well for the people who think they deserve loot after one of these boss fights.

Let’s look at the Shadow Behemoth. When the boss spawns, this is what players do:

1) Stand at distance and target its face.
2) Press your 1 key to enable auto-attack
3) When it leans forward past you to create portals, turn your character to point in its direction to allow auto-attack to continue.
4) When it leans back to its original position and can no longer be targeted, target nearest portal and press your 1 key to enable auto-attack.
5) When the portal is destroyed one second later, return to step 1.

Repeat that two or three times until boss is dead, collect loot, and then come to forum to complain about how you deserve better drops for your troubles.

Who are we kidding? Apparently the developers, since they keep making the drop rate better.

Rouven.7409:

Edge.4180:

I think once you remove loot from these encounters you remove the players who are only attending these events for loot.. and I am perfectly fine with them not being there.

Well, I’m sorry, but that’s a pretty egocentric view and not likely in the interest of the game. Scale the events so they get “harder”/more complex as more people participate sure, saying I want only people who share my sense of adventure being there – simply doesn’t work in an MMO.

Is it egocentric? Do you think any designer works on what s/he hopes will be an epic boss encounter and thinks “I hope the players are psyched about farming this for loot”. Or are they designing the encounter hoping players show up because their creation is cool, fun, and epic?

And, unfortunately, I don’t current technology in this game allows for epic battles that support 50 players.. so.. what do you do? Either keep them lame, or you scale them back to lure only a reasonable amount of people, and for the right reasons.

Rouven.7409:

Well, that’s what I’m saying – why do you think then that eliminating the loot totally would be a “solution” – and worse, at what cost?

There needs to be something added (mechanics, technical/server, maybe story) – not taken away.

I think once you remove loot from these encounters you remove the players who are only attending these events for loot.. and I am perfectly fine with them not being there.

That leaves people who happen to be in the zone, or in the area. And if the event is even remotely entertaining, they’ll come. They already do, even with basic events, even though the only guaranteed reward is just some coin, some XP, and some karma.

These boss events can be completed with a dozen people. They don’t need 20, 50 or more players there saving the day. My fondest encounter memories in this game are not these dragon fights where a ridiculous amount of players spam attacks, but instead cool tactical battles where maybe three players win against a champion.

Heck, if it were up to me I would disallow waypoint travel into a zone once one of these boss events started, maybe even shutting down all the waypoints in the vicinity of these boss events as well to slow down reinforcements and encourage people to play smarter.

Rouven.7409:

OP even acknowledged that the situation was like this before even when the loot was mediocre – but that is not a complaint because – there was no overflow.

Why do people seem to believe that nobody visited these events prior to the February loot patch? Because that was certainly not my experience. I could show up at any dragon event and find close to 30 people standing there waiting anytime in the past few months. And even then they weren’t there for the dragon, they were there hoping they’d score a rare or better. You could tell by the amount of griping that went on about unlucky loot post-kill.

I guess maybe some of you didn’t bother with these events prior to the February patch, but you’re mistaken if you’re assuming crowds weren’t already camping them. All the patch change did was make it more worthwhile (from the perspective of someone already standing there for the loot), while also luring some stubborn holdouts out of the woodwork.

I didn’t like the events then and I don’t like them now. Had you read my posts you’d understand that.

IndigoSundown.5419:

The proposed replacement rewards are not rewarding enough. Unless a buff is “too good,” people hardly notice them. Also, open world PvE is easy enough that such a this-zone buff is going to be seen as not worth the effort. Locking map areas away behind an event is an interesting mechanic, but the current manifestations of this are complained about (CoF and Arah, for instance). Adding more such will not go over well and will be perceived as a punishment for not doing the event rather than a reward for doing it.

My suggestions for rewards that might inspire players to participate in these events “for the right reasons” are just examples, and I’m sure any designer worth his or her salt could come up with many better ones.

That said, if these “lures” only attract 10-15 players to these events.. mission accomplished. I’m not looking to create a situation where players are coming from all over the world to participate in one of these events. That’s the problem we have now. And I’ll take quality over quantity every time. It’s not difficult to get roughly a half-dozen to a dozen players who happen to be in the zone to participate in an event.. I see this at practically any basic event already, and none of them offer boss chests as a reward. At any given time there’s probably around 5 players just adventuring in the area a boss event happens to spawn who are likely to jump in.

You know, a few months back I saw that Tequatl and Jormag were in their spawn window at the same time. I knew most people would go to Jormag, so I went to Tequatl. I was standing there on the beach looking at maybe 6 other players waiting for his spawn and, for the first time, I got nervous and excited about this fight. I was thinking “this is going to be fantastic.. finally a real fight with Tequatl”. I changed my traits and skills to be more group oriented and supportive, I started reviewing the abilities on the turrets.. this was going to be awesome!

Then Jormag ended and several dozen people from that event showed up on the beach before Tequatl had a chance to spawn. I sighed and switched back to my DPS loadout, waited for him to spawn, chose him as my target and hit my “1” key and sat back waiting to collect my treasure.

I don’t want 20, 30, 50, 100 people at these events. Especially when they’re showing up not to have fun and be challenged, but because of the all mighty loot carrot. There is enough content in this game to occupy people without sacrificing these boss events.

I’m going to use the Shadow Behemoth as an example. When you arrive in the swamps you’ll find upwards of ~50 players standing around waiting for the event to start. Many of them will have been waiting for over an hour, competing against other players via the “waiting game” for a spot on the map specifically so they could do this.

Are they standing there because they’re excited about the upcoming event? Or are they standing there because they want some loot? We all know it’s the latter, and to any designer that should be the wrong reason.

You know, it’s funny (and by funny I mean really sad).. the people who actually deserve the rewards are the ones completing the pre-events, not the ones pressing their auto-attack key and aiming in the direction of the Behemoth for two minutes. Because, when those pre-events start.. 99% of the people standing there in the swamp can not be bothered to lift a finger to help out with them. They would rather sit there and wait like a stump for another thirty minutes than spend two minutes moving outside the swamp and advancing the event.

We are rewarding the wrong people, and with the wrong things, and for the wrong reasons. Do not misunderstand me: I want to kill a cool boss and find a shiny treasure chest rewarding me at the end. But it does not seem like I can have that without having the garbage we have now, and if I have to pick the lesser evil I would rather have no chests and people only attending events because they’re genuinely interested in being there because it’s fun and they’re accomplishing something that has nothing to do with loot.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

OP, what you are suggesting is exactly how it has been for the last 5 months. The bosses dropped no good loot so people for the most part just ignored them. Why should they care if those temples/that part of the map is blocked off. If it didn’t drop any loot then why would they want to unlock it anyway?

I can’t help but think that we must have been playing different games. Because, since launch, every time I dropped by an event like Tequatl I’d find legions of players camped out there waiting for his spawn and hoping for good chest loot, and a few players new to the area hoping for a cool experience. Unfortunately, the former ruined the latter.

We have always had chest/loot rewards from these bosses, which is exactly the opposite of what I’m suggesting.

Rouven.7409:

What a wasted potential indeed if you designed those encounters and “no one” goes there or only once.

The people playing in these zones for “normal” reasons (i.e. not standing around waiting to collect their rare) will attend these encounters, especially if they’re fun and the designers give them reasons to (and those reasons don’t have to be loot). Queensdale, for example, will always have players in it, more than enough to challenge the Shadow Behemoth, whether his death spawns a loot chest or not. It does not need a hundred “heroes” from around the world descending upon it every two hours just to collect their shiny.

Tachenon.5270:

Big tough boss fights can be fun, but without something to show for it they soon lose their appeal. For me, at least. Also, locking part of the map away until a big boss is defeated… uh, we kinda have that in Orr already with some of the skill challenges. Not a fan of Orr. Thank goodness for guesting and TC.

I really don’t see the harm in allowing players to lose interests in particular world-bosses as they exhaust the content in zones and move on to different content. For some reason I’m doubting that, when creating these encounters, ANet envisioned players farming them multiple times a day, every day, like we do now.

These events have become a joke. Nobody is there because they’re interested in the event, nobody is “saving the world”.. they’re only interested in the loot. I deserve more of a reward for completing an event like “Prevent the pirates from stealing supplies from the Priory camp” than a loot pinata like “Defeat Tequatl the Sunless”. People are attending these events for the wrong reason, a reason that sounds a lot like “I can get a rare for two minutes of work”. What a huge waste of design and potential.

Agrios.1957:

It was frustrating to beat a massive boss and getting bluetrash, just to see another guy getting a precursor during a karma run in Orr.. It was too much RNG..

Now that world chests have good drops (some golds, and even exotics) at least we have motivation to them more than once.

I think the problem you’re describing revolves around the fact that you walked up to a huge chest post-boss event and then you were subsequently disappointed to see a bunch of blue drops instead of the items you really wanted.

That is not what I’m proposing. I’m proposing creating a situation where it’s common knowledge that these huge out-door bosses don’t leave behind treasure chests at all. Where defeating them simply rewards players on that map with something else.. like a temporary buff that only works on that map, or opening access to an area or waypoints on that map that is otherwise blocked off by the existence of said boss, or something interesting the designers can think up that doesn’t involve shinies attracting people from all across the game.

No loot to be disappointed about, in other words. Yes, it is completely in the opposite direction of where we’ve been going with recent patches.

Dante.1508:

Because the rest of the game drops nothing…

Nothing? Really? I find it difficult to believe that you have obtained none of your gear outside of open-world meta-event chests.

lisamee.2408:

Because of botting and/or gem shop sales, open world loot was nerfed the first month or so of the game. So now we have to acquire the treasures (that level 80’s want) in a strictly controlled and dictated way (dungeons, events, laurels).

I’m specifically talking about open-world meta events that provide treasure chests at the end of the event. And there is nothing stopping bots and other “illegal” farmers from taking advantage of these same events alongside legitimate players, “strictly controlled” or not.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Edge.4180:

Instead, make the events do something that gives players in the area a reason to beat them, like locking down a portion of the map until they’re defeated, or awarding victors with a buff only applicable to that zone.

I can see it now . .

“ArenaNet, y u gate content behind a world boss?!”
“ANet, ur so unfair, can’t get the cool buffs cuz i can’t kill the boss.”

There’s not really anything unusual about locking down portions of the map with events. Centaurs, for example, frequently take control of sections of certain maps depending on how events flow. The game was designed around that whole idea.

However, you are right in that players will likely complain about it all the same.

BioFringe.7945:

It’s really sad that this thread has continued on so long when there is absolutely nothing positive or constructive about it. It’s just a bunch of people making fun of others based on a difference of opinion. Nothing more. Nothing good will ever come from this thread other than some laughs for a few and some moans for others.

What’s even worse is that I had to listen to this ridiculous debate in LA map chat yesterday, which of course turned ugly rather quickly. It’s always a shame to see crap like this on the boards but to then have to deal with the same crap in game is just saddening. Very saddening.

I’m not sure I understand your frustration. Perhaps the fact that a similar topic showed up in map chat shows that it’s on the minds of some players. One of the great thing about the forums is that you don’t have to read every topic on the page. So, if this particular one doesn’t interest you, read something else.

I agree there is an abnormal amount of trolling being allowed to exist in this thread, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a legitimate discussion going on here amongst people who actually have a real interest in it.

Threads don’t need to be locked down just because they fail to interest you. Unfortunately, I think much trolling occurs specifically to get discussions shut down, and all too often forum mods fall for it rather than taking the time to clean out the thread.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Edge.4180:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I “work on the daily” because I don’t have other things to do most days. No, I don’t. I’ve got 100% world completion on my ranger, my computer stinks for doing WvW, and since I’m a ranger I generally avoid trying to pick-up-group for dungeons or Fractals. So instead? I do my daily, see if the guild is doing anything. If not? I screw around with small things for a while.

OR, you could just pick a direction in the game and go, and see where the adventure takes you. There are plenty of events out there to just stumble across and play in, often one leading you to another. And the best part with the original Daily was that you actually stood a pretty great chance of completing it and being rewarded in the process, because the goals were so purposely generic.

But now.. well, you better hope your random journey takes you across some very specific hoops to jump through.

. . . that’s what I do.

It’s almost exactly what I do. I say “almost” because the first thing is to pop open the daily and see if it’s going to be a hassle. Like “Maguuma Event”, “Shiverpeaks Slayer” , “Mystic Forgewright”, “Group Event”, the Fractals one, and WvW Caravans on the list.

Note, this combination was rather close to existing. It gave me an excuse to dip into WvW for an hour and help take a couple towers and supply camps. Oh, and pick up the jumping puzzle too at the end.

I pick a place I know and like, and go there. Or in the case of one day, I picked a place I hadn’t been back to in a long time (Timberline Falls) to check it out. (-shrug-) I am supposing for whatever reason because it’s also poking at my Daily it doesn’t count.

Sounds more like you’re picking the least annoying options in the Daily each day and then going to where you need to be to complete them. That’s different than the scenario I described.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

. . . is it worth noting that even the original daily setup (Kill count, kill variety, events, gathering) meant you couldn’t just sit in a dungeon or Orr and get them finished?

That’s certainly true, but two things here:

1) the same could be said about the Daily now. Maybe when the stars align you can choose five activities that can be completed in a dungeon, but not usually.

2) the original Daily was designed around players who didn’t have a lot of time on their hands (which is not the dungeon crowd). It was a way of rewarding them for even just playing the game a little every day. That is why originally the tasks were generic and, more importantly, why we were awarded in tiers. You received an XP boost for participating in a single event, and then again if you completed a total of 3 events, and then again at a total of 5 events.

Unfortunately, now the Daily has moved away from that and changed into a mechanic to occupy players at end-game who have, apparently, run out of things to do. And while I’m not suggesting it isn’t important to have things for players to do, I think the developers should have found better ways of accomplishing that without sacrificing the Daily and its original intentions.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I “work on the daily” because I don’t have other things to do most days. No, I don’t. I’ve got 100% world completion on my ranger, my computer stinks for doing WvW, and since I’m a ranger I generally avoid trying to pick-up-group for dungeons or Fractals. So instead? I do my daily, see if the guild is doing anything. If not? I screw around with small things for a while.

OR, you could just pick a direction in the game and go, and see where the adventure takes you. There are plenty of events out there to just stumble across and play in, often one leading you to another. And the best part with the original Daily was that you actually stood a pretty great chance of completing it and being rewarded in the process, because the goals were so purposely generic.

But now.. well, you better hope your random journey takes you across some very specific hoops to jump through.

(sigh) Unpopular post time.

During GW2’s development, I used to look at those Tequatl and Shatterer event videos and the furthest thing from my mind as I watched their footage was the question of how many times I could farm them a day for rare drops. And yet, now this seems to be the only question on the minds of most players.

I’m sure the community that just wants to be showered in rare and exotic drops will strongly disagree with this, but I really wish Arenanet would just completely remove chest rewards from these open-world boss events altogether. Instead, make the events do something that gives players in the area a reason to beat them, like locking down a portion of the map until they’re defeated, or awarding victors with a buff only applicable to that zone. And then players who are actually adventuring in these zones will have a reason to band together and beat these bosses, no loot-carrot-on-a-stick required.

I would love to see these world events entertaining only a fraction of the crowds they attract now (who are there for all the wrong reasons). I choose quality over quantity every time. This whole loot pinata thing is just ruining the entire sense of adventure this game was supposed to have. I’ll even suggest that it’s introducing elements that are counter to the philosophy of the game. Those bosses are like open-world resources, and we’re now practically competing over them as we fight to see who can out-camp whom, with the loser ending up cursing on an overflow map. And not because we care about the boss or the event, but because we want that loot drop.

Wasn’t this supposed to be the game that moved away from that kind of unpleasant competition?

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Hule.8794:

Dailies are good the way they are.
Only ones that i hate is killing vets in some areas.

Kill veterans in Shiverpeaks? Claw of Jormag’s got you covered. Or hang out looking for the events near Hoelbrak, they refresh fairly quickly.

Kill veterans in Ascalon? Events in Fireheart Rise have you covered. Or you can go take the fight to the ghosts of Ascalon City.

Kill veterans in Maguuma? Sparkfly Fen, or the Hidden Garden.

Kill a champion? Wayfarer’s Foothills, there’s the Champion Corrupted Wolfmaster. I think he’s probably the easiest champion to take solo for any class.

Aquatic Slayer? Bloodtide Coast, near the Inquest lab, you can rack up quite an impressive amount of kills on the Inquest or jellyfish to the north. Mind the shark nobody ever . . . ever . . . kills.

Crafting? Refine copper ore, jute scraps, and such.

Mystic Forge? Save some blue useless junk and pitch it in.

I should go on, but . . . eh, the only thing the change in dailies have done for me is get me to play my alts and get their world completion in motion.

Posts like this one that detail specific locations to beat specific tasks have completely missed the point. Actually, they enhance the point that it’s ridiculous how specific these dailies have gotten.

I’ll say it before and I’ll say it again: Daily gatherer, kill amount (generic), kill variety, events (generic) – the four challenges that were part of the original Daily at launch – should always be included in the list of choices every single day. These are all generic activities that the player can complete while simply playing the game (rather than setting time aside specifically to “work on the daily”).

Should the design of any system in the game really revolve around the concept of finding the 5 chores that are the least annoying?

Mark Katzbach.9084:

Hey everybody,

We’ve made some changes that should improve overflow issues on most maps. The team is also investigating larger solutions to help in the long term.

Any hints on what changed? I only ask because I’m still ending up in overflow. Just wondering what we should be expecting to see (rather, what are you considering to be “overflow issues”).

One of my friends has been really bummed about this. She usually has that quaggan out everywhere we go, but now that it sounds like a karka firing non-stop she doesn’t take it out anymore.

To suggest guesting isn’t contributing to the problem of people not being able to participate in these events on their home server, when guests are present at the events of said server, is ridiculous.

If the zone was only filled to capacity by residents of that server, that would be one thing. But that is not what is happening. Regardless of how many “natives” there are at these events, there are also guests present at these events while natives are stuck waiting in a queue. And that last part needs to change.

WHEN that is fixed, then we can start complaining about being stuck in overflow too often because of whatever changes were made to these events. But until that point, any guests occupying slots that should be freed up for full-time residents are going to be the targets of frustration, and understandably so.

Honestly, I don’t understand why the Krait were changed at all. They all had a variety of different abilities already.

Minion of Vey.4398:

It is in this case, since you can complete the daily without participating in ambient killer.

At the cost of doing something potentially more annoying, sure.

Should the design of any system in the game really revolve around the concept of finding the 5 chores that are the least annoying?

Kallah.3271:

Alright, I see what you’re saying now. How about Weald and Monastery events pop at 12:05, then, allowing players to know when to begin working on the pre-events for the Behemoth? That would then lead to the portal events, the disturbance in the middle of the swamp, and of course the big-ugly himself.

The events in the Monastery have their own chains, though, which are completely unrelated to the Secrets of the Swamp event. They happen when they happen, which is often based on when players happened to trigger and complete (or fail) some previous stage of the chain. There are no set times for those to fire off.

An example of an event that blocks the Secrets of the Swamp is the event “Return stolen kegs of ale to Abbot Mathias”. If that event is in-progress, “Secrets of the Swamp” will not start (and, honestly, it’s a little ridiculous seeing several dozen players standing at the bosses spawn point wondering why the Behemoth is late, but refusing to lift a finger to investigate why).

However, the Return Kegs quest only triggers if players happen to fail the event “Drive back the centaurs before they steal the monastery’s ale”. What if they don’t fail it (which triggers an escort quest as a follow up)? Or what if they do and it takes one server 20 minutes to recover the ale while another takes 5, and yet another avoids starting the event altogether? Too many pieces to juggle without just redesigning the world event.

Kallah.3271:

Edge.4180:

No. There are examples of pre-events that will not start until all other events in the areas used by the pre-event are clear and finished. It’s not possible to start all the pre-events at the same time without oddly and suddenly aborting all unrelated events in the nearby area (which is sure to annoy people who are working on those events).

Could you post an example of this, please?

Sure. On top of needing to be in the proper window, they very popular Secret of the Swamps event can not begin unless the Greatheart Weald and Eldvin Monastery are clear of events. This is because those locations are used as part of Secret of the Swamps event chain and, for whatever reason, the designers have chosen not to allow them to overlap.

It’s a little more complicated than that, but that is the gist of it.

Kallah.3271:

Edge.4180:

You’re just not understanding that the timers can not all be synced. There are different pre-events for these events and when those events are completed depend entirely on when the players in each server completes them. You’re arguing for a change that can’t even work.

Then synchronize the starting of the first pre-event in each chain, to a given point on the clock. It doesn’t matter if Server A starts a t12:05 and finishes Maw at 12:12, and server B starts at 12:05 and finishes Maw at 12:15. They both start the chain at the same time.

No. There are examples of pre-events that will not start until all other events in the areas used by the pre-event are clear and finished. It’s not possible to start all the pre-events at the same time without oddly and suddenly aborting all unrelated events in the nearby area (which is sure to annoy people who are working on those events).

You have to remember, ArenaNet is going through a lot of trouble to sell the idea that you’re playing in an organic, living world. I very much doubt that they’re going to be willing to just suddenly abort events and reset areas right in front of our eyes just to begin a world event on a rigid timer.

Healix.5819:

Edge.4180:

Uh, I would still be annoyed if I was constantly in overflow. I had the same complaint when they introduced Fractals to Lion’s Arch, or with the starting zones close to launch. I want to play alongside the community I chose to be around when I picked a server, not with a bunch of strangers from other servers.

If people are being pushed out of their chosen server onto an overflow server because guests are taking up available slots, there’s still a problem, regardless of whether there’s a world event going on or not.

Then you would be annoyed simply because there are too many people on your server, in which case, they might as well remove the overflow feature and introduce queue times so that you may avoid them. Would you really want to wait in a queue like WvW rather than be given a chance to play while you wait? You can’t fit an an entire server’s worth of players into a zone.

If all the timers were fixed, there would no longer be a reason to guest to other servers, since all servers would have the event starting at the same time. You could guest to another server after yours finished, in an attempt to find a server that’s slower at completing it, but by that point, you should have already joined the event, so unless your server is overpopulated, you wouldn’t have been in an overflow.

You’re just not understanding that the timers can not all be synced. There are different pre-events for these events and when those events are completed depend entirely on when the players in each server completes them. You’re arguing for a change that can’t even work.

Healix.5819:

The timers should be fixed. That way everyone knows exactly when the event will occur and it won’t matter what server you’re on or if you’re in an overflow. This is the only solution that won’t ruin something for someone.

Uh, I would still be annoyed if I was constantly in overflow. I had the same complaint when they introduced Fractals to Lion’s Arch, or with the starting zones close to launch. I want to play alongside the community I chose to be around when I picked a server, not with a bunch of strangers from other servers.

If people are being pushed out of their chosen server onto an overflow server because guests are taking up available slots, there’s still a problem, regardless of whether there’s a world event going on or not.

Veldan.4637:

Edge.4180:

Conner.4702:

I fear my system will just melt into nothing. Unless the fix specificly targets WvW.

Yeah, I’m concerned the problem is just being pushed off to the players. As in, the problem will be fixed as long as you max all the culling options and have a fairly new/beefy system that can handle the additional workload.. otherwise you’re out of luck. Hopefully not.

Even if so, why is this bad? You know a better system is gonna give a better experience in MMOs with lots of people around. You know this before buying a system, and before buying an MMO. If people with a bad system are still given the option to activate culling and have a smooth game with that, I don’t see a problem with this.

It’s bad because once a developer goes down this route, the amount of effort to fix the problem by developing systems more efficiently generally takes a nose dive. Instead of “we’re working hard on it”, you’ll start seeing responses that instead imply tweaking the settings on your end or upgrading to the latest hardware is the best you can hope for.

Developers tend to get very creative when they’re constrained and have to produce something glorious within confined parameters. When those constraints go out the window we end up with bad choices that lead to the culling problems we have now. And that’s exactly the sort of thing that happens when the problem gets pushed off onto the player.

Now, before someone flies off the handle, I am not saying that’s what will happen here. Only that it’s something that tends to happen in this industry and until we see differently it’s something to keep in mind.

Honestly, while I doubt anyone would agree with this and it would never happen in a million years, I’d love it if they just completely removed chest rewards from these events altogether. Make the events lock down a portion of the map and then players who are actually adventuring in these zones will have a reason to band together and beat these bosses, no loot-carrot-on-a-stick required.

I would love to see these world events entertaining only a fraction of the crowds they attract now (who are there for all the wrong reasons). Quality over quantity every time.

You know, during GW2’s development I used to watch the Shatterer event videos and the furthest thing from my mind whenever I watched the footage was the question of how many times I could farm him a day for rare drops. This whole loot pinata thing is just ruining the entire sense of adventure this game was supposed to have.

Horrorscope.7632:

Edge.4180:

There, what.. 24 U.S. servers? If just two players from each U.S. server guest over to another U.S. server for a particular event, that’s nearly 50 characters occupying space at a particular event.

It’s not difficult for guesting to cause problems quickly.

Good point, the comeback is 50 people isn’t much and any server with a timed boss can easily generate that and put many into an overflow, guesting or not. So net result is the same… RAGE!

50 people scattered around a server aren’t much. 50 people all in the same zone and at the same event.. is quite a bit. And if it leads to 50 people who reside on that server ending up in overflow, that’s 50 more complaints you have showing up on the forum.

There, what.. 24 U.S. servers? If just two players from each U.S. server guest over to another U.S. server for a particular event, that’s nearly 50 characters occupying space at a particular event.

It’s not difficult for guesting to cause problems quickly.

Blackmoon.6837:

Fiction has no place among our ‘moral landscape’.

If it did, then it wouldn’t be fiction.

Also, in game, I slaughter frogs. They make for good stews that I can feed my pet raccoon.

I may have inadvertently exploded your pet raccoon in the last Daily Ambient Killer. :/

Horrorscope.7632:

Nope, I’m being honest. People are telling others… “Go back to your server, stay off mine.”. No player owns the servers, it’s a choice like any choice in life, we all just need to deal with it. That is how I read “Go back…”, sorry.

Anet has given us the option to move as we like within their parameters. Anyone on any server has the same right to be there as the next.

What other mmo’s do is irrelevant, this is the parameters we have in GW2. Several other recent mmo’s are going with mega-servers, meaning one server with instance overflows. That way there is no “This is my server”, I would have preferred GW2 just do that, but I think WvWvW is the reason why we have different servers to fight for, which from reading that hasn’t seemed to be a huge hit. GW1 worked of the mega-server ideal.

Consider that these large boss events are resources with a limited number of uses. And people are temporarily hopping from the server community (Server-A) they originally chose to represent in order to use resources on another server (Server-B). And, in the process, they are making it difficult for people who call Server-B “home” to enjoy those resources that are a part of that server.

It is no more frustrating than having to compete for crafting resource nodes, which was intentionally done away with in this game. And yet here we are now, all trying to out-camp one another to get a shot at a particular resource, competing for the kill – that’s pretty far from the whole cooperation mechanic this game was built around, where you’re supposed to be glad to see other players in the world around you. These recent changes have caused us to lose something important.

So, people say “Go back to your server, stay off mine.” Sure, they may be nicer ways for them to word it but they’re all going to mean the same thing. Either exploit the resources on your own server, or make another server your home and exploit the resources there. But don’t expect to have a foot in both at the same time just so you can have your cake and eat it too, all at the cost of denying someone else a slice, and expect them not to be upset about it.

Simple truth is, people don’t want to wait for the events on their own chosen server to roll around, and (as is often the sad case) are all too willing to take steps to save time even if it means wasting someone elses time.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Interesting. I’ve never seen them used both ways, except for your own order.

You can use them both ways provided you don’t exit the restricted area that houses the gate. Once you leave that small area, you can only gain access to the restricted area around the gate in each order’s base if you’re a member of that order.

Seems pretty silly that you can’t present yourself as the Commander of the Pact forces attempting to return to Fort Trinity ASAP and gain access through any Order’s base. I’d love to see that awkward conversation playing out in real life.

Poledo.3256:

I see it from both sides really. I think the ire should be directed towards the situation not the people doing the guesting. They are simply using the resources provided by Anet in lieu of the free transfer system we had. There are a few who relish in the fact that they may be causing stress to others but in general I don’t think this is the case.

I think part of the frustration is that people (players who aren’t guesting to other servers) know any fix is going to end up ultimately limiting them in some way. The cycle always seems the same… receive nice things from the developer, watch nice things get abused, lose nice things in the fix.

It gets tiring always watching cool bits of a MMO you enjoy playing getting chipped away at because others seem to be always looking for ways to game the system.

Part of the problem is people will (despite not wanting to) choose Ambient Killer over other things because the choice is either a) running your character around looking like bunny/raccoon/pigeon slayer (which, by the way, is a bit frustrating for people who try to role-play in these games), or b) choosing an option that is more time-wasting and obnoxious instead.

The original Daily was nice in that it offered tasks that you general completed just by playing in the PvE maps, whether you were even trying to or not. Kill variety, kill amount, event participation, gathering.. all very generic tasks that fit well with any number of play interests.

But now, the choices are much more specific. Go to zone X and complete task Y. Kill underwater. Kill ambient creatures. Find 10 characters to revive even though your normal play session may only take you past a maximum of 2. Play Keg Brawl.

We’re no longer completing the Daily just by playing the game our way, we’re logging on and saying “which five hoops will I jump through today to earn a token for end-game gear” and working on the Daily instead of just having fun playing our way. And there’s a big difference. It’s a chore now instead of bonus for simply playing (which was its original intention, aimed at rewarding players who didn’t have a lot of time to play – ironic now since it chews up so much time on its own separate from normal play).

I love that we have options.. I just wish we had more options to choose from. Because I would like the option of choosing generic kill variety, generic kill amount, generic event, and gathering + one other task every single day. I certainly wouldn’t feel like I have to choose between killing ambient deer or Keg Brawl. Who cares if someone else thinks my selection is boring.. it’s what I enjoyed doing, and they have the option of choosing something else. Pushing me to play the game your way is just not cool.

For those interested, here’s one of the interviews:

MMORPG: Can you explain, in layman’s terms, what Culling is, and why it’s such a hot topic with WvW?

Habib Loew: Culling is essentially a process by which the server chooses to not tell players about certain other players. It was all about limiting the breakdown of resources from a client to server standpoint. The issue with it was that a huge battle would errupt and you would not see other players. It definitely had its drawbacks.

MMORPG: Back in January, one of the fixes for culling went into place, and it seemed to help a bit. But how will the changes coming in March eliminate this completely? There are a few skeptics in Bill’s (Murphy) guild that think it can’t be done.

Habib Loew: Hah, yeah we have seen a lot of the skepticism on the Internet. The change we made in January was really just a tweak to the system. It changed the priorities of Culling but did not eliminate it. The change in March will turn off Culling completely. You will now see every character within range of you. There will be several different options for how other players are presented to you, on the client side that you can choose from so you can control how it works for you.

Now, this particular developer is the “WvW Coordinator and Principle Programmer”, so maybe that’s why he’s mainly mentioning WvW (that, and the question was directed at WvW). Part of me tends to think that if you have a fantastic solution that fixes everything, you go out of your way to advertise that it fixes everything. Otherwise, you try to be as specific as possible. But, hopefully we’re all pleasantly surprised.