Guild Wars 2

Playing the same build as before. But then, my P/D build has yet to be effected by any nerfs or changes.

Built to outlast and outsmart my enemies. Not burst them down with a combo that only works on cooldown.

For a crit build I’d definitely recommend either lightning or blood.

I am not left handed, but I did rebind several keys. For me, 5-0 have been rebound to Q, E, Z, mouse 4, mouse 5, and center mouse.

I’ve found that a standard 5 button mouse is generally all you need, although some people go a little crazy and buy a razor naga or somesuch with like 30 keys. I think if I was a left-handed gamer I would invest in an expensive mouse like that, since it would be useful on any game I played. YMMV

The editing seems good. You avoided using too many crazy special effects or covering the screen with useless info. I liked seeing when the guardian removed conditions. I didn’t like seeing DB spammed so much. I know it’s how dagger thieves apply bleeds, but there were a couple times there where you drained your init and didn’t have many options. I’m not an expert on D/D, but it seems like leaving yourself with such low init is a bad idea.

Other than that it was a nice short and clean vid.

I know I repeat this a lot, but take a look at Yojack’s build. It’s good for just about any form of PvP.

I just hit 80 on my warrior today. Copied the build exactly, bought some 80 yellows(non-exotic) and went to town. It took a little getting used to after playing a thief, but once I started to learn what I could and couldn’t get away with, I really felt the reliability of the build.

You’re not going to make people explode like a glass cannon build, but you’re going to be very hard to kill, dish some really good, solid damage, AND be an asset to your group with shouts.

ZLE.8293:

The only thing that is bothering me is that channeling skills continue to follow you in stealth.There is quite a topic about this,so i don’t wanna start another,just saying.

Agreed. It’s very irritating.

My thief’s weakness? NPCs that keep attacking me even though I’m in stealth. Mesmer clones/illusions, ranger pets, even other Thieves Guild pets. So god kitten annoying.

But other than that particular bug, people who know how to intelligently drop AOE after I stealth can really put a hurt on me and force me to play much more defensively.

Guardians are a tough fight with my P/D. I’ve fought a few that did hellish amounts of damage on top of their innate toughness.

Sometimes it takes waiting out the entire duration of your stealth to get back HP and initiative, and for cooldowns to tick off. It’s not a fight you’re going to win quickly, and I think that’s what kills most thieves: they’re all built for burst and fast wins, and when it doesn’t go well, they run out of options and lose.

I don’t use pistol whip OR heartseeker. La de da!

Seriously though, it seems like Anet kind of missed the point here. It wasn’t Pistol Whip that was the problem. It’s the combination of skills that thieves have access to use in combination.

Small nerfs to quickness, and maybe initiative costs should be the first steps. NOT outright damage cuts.

I admit that missing with C&D can be a little annoying. Not only did you not do any damage, but you also didn’t stealth, AND burned some initiative.

But really this is just a matter of practice. Get better at your class instead of asking for crutches. If nothing else, you should be glad that C&D doesn’t have a long cooldown that gets burned for nothing on a miss like other classes. If you have the initiative(which you SHOULD if you’re not spamming), just aim better and hit it a second time.

Practice my friend. Practice. It’s YOU that should get better, not the class.

I think a better solution to changing how SB works is to give thieves an alternative to it that forces a choice. As you said, the reason why most thieves use the SB is because it’s just that good. But if there was an alternative that made thieves stop and think about which they really wanted to use for their build, then that choice could lead to a better balanced class.

The 1200 range sniper rifle would be a good start, without having to take anything away from the existing weapon set that thieves have.

I don’t want to suggest specific abilities for such a weapon, since I’m not a game designer by trade. But I’m fairly certain Anet could come up with something decent.

Just my 2c:

Earlier I was in WvW, running supply. Suddenly I just started getting afflictions stacked up, and was immediately stunlocked. I died without being able to do anything, even using a stun breaker.

I figured it musta been a player culling problem. But it wasn’t until AFTER I was dead that the 30 man zerg decided it would render on my screen.

Definitely not fun.

What’s really funny about all these people defending the whacky theif-design is that… they really beleive it takes skill to use a theif.

There are ways to use a thief skillfully. Just because you have the capability to inflict massive burst damage doesn’t mean that the application of that damage needs to be done stupidly.

Good players > Bad players. No matter what the class is.

Almost any glass cannon build from any class can down people in 4 seconds if the target stands still. This isn’t an issue of thief being too strong, it’s an issue of the OP not bothering to take defensive or counter-measures.

If you’re under heavy fire from someone, you don’t just stand there and take it. The result of that should be obvious. There’s a reason why you have dodges, interrupts, knockdowns, evades, invulns, blocks, fears, heals, etc, etc,…..

Alternatively you can counter attack and blow the glass cannon up first. Force him to either die, or stop firing.

In PvP, 4 seconds is more than enough time to react. So, really, there’s nothing much more to be said other than: L2P

Listen up, all you prospective pvp video makers: THIS is the kind of fighting we want to see. I don’t care about your crit highlight reel. Show us clean, smooth, long cuts of you fighting, even if you occasionally get downed or killed. Skip past the rez timer and fast forward the parts of you running between points, with minimal text to point out what you were doing/thinking. No stupid moviemaker special effects either!

Nice work, Hid. I enjoyed it. You kept you calm and showed some serious awareness of the battlefield and good supporting fire. That part at 7 minutes where you shadow refuge and call for backup, but stayed out of the capture ring so the enemy didn’t know you were still there: excellent!

This should be titled “look how bad these players were.

Quoted for great justice.

I get so tired of seeing these posts. Some group of idiot players who don’t even know they have a dodge key, much less blocks, counters, evades, or invluns.

News flash! Glass cannon builds are strong against bad players! Read all about it!

I agree with the OP in principle, but there’s a reason why people in WoW PVP geared so heavily for hitpoints. It would allow them to survive focused fire and spike damage long enough to react. As more people become aware of what a thief and other glass cannon builds are capable of, they’ll start speccing and gearing for survival as well.

I think Anet definitely has some design issues with the current state of PvP, both structured and WvW. But if I was a betting man, I’d say they’re more inclined to leave the initial response to players, and give them time to work things out.

One of the biggest issues I had with WoW PVP was that Blizzard just couldn’t leave anything alone long enough for players to fully realize the potential of the game and their classes. It caused a cascade effect where the moment something was changed, a new and worse strategy was created by players because of it. I’m really hoping Anet is taking more of a hands-off approach.

Furthermore, speccing to get vigor on steal and endurance return on dodge requires 15 in acrobatics and 20 in trickery. This doesn’t leave anywhere near enough points for a true burst, backstab build that can blow you up in seconds. Which means that unless you’re also a glass cannon build, if you’re smart you’ll be able to avoid or mitigate enough damage to counter attack or neutralize the thief combo.

Edit: Tested the endurance build, btw. After steal, even with vigor, you can dodge three times back to back before having to wait for around 3 seconds for enough endurance to dodge again. After that 4th dodge, you’d have to wait another 3 seconds.

So….another misunderstanding of what thieves are supposedly capable of cleared up, hopefully.

phaeris.7604:

So apparently what thieves are doing during the whirlwind is dodging constantly. Due to their traited endurance gain they can dodge 4-5 times in a row so giving them complete invulnerability during the initial whirlwind….

So that would explain why all i see are evade signs whenever I try and counter.

So yes, if a thief chooses not to dodge during the whirlwind you can hit him……or he can just keep dodging non stop.

See, you’ve already learned something! Dodging is not invulnerability, although they are similar in nature. The thief is not just outright immune to damage during the spin, they have to expend resources and they have to hit their dodge key to do it.

Also, the most a thief can do is dodge 3 times back to back without stopping to use something that also restores endurance, which probably ends either daggerstorm or whirlwind. The trait returns about a third of the endurance used to dodge.

All this theory crafting is nice, but there is really no way to counter an 8k steal, 8k cloak and dagger, 9k backstab which all happens in a very short amount of time. Not to mention trick-shot consistently hitting for 2.5k and 6-7k cluster bombs.

Show me a video or even an unedited screenshot of steal doing 8k. The Jinzu backstab build can put out some amazing numbers against classes that are also glass cannons. It can be frustrating to be blown up that fast, but “A very short amount of time.” is not the same as instantaneous. You can stun break out if you’re on the ball with your reaction time.

Yes, all out offense is very powerful for the Thief class. It’s using it’s strengths to the maximum. That is NOT the same as an “I win” button. You either adapt your own style to survive and fight, or you’ll just keep getting beaten. So stop complaining about other classes and start actually looking at the hard numbers and strategies of what your class can do. Don’t just give up and say “OP NERF! QQ!!!111!11!!”

That’s what guys like Yojack have done. How do you explain the difference between what you guys are saying about all thieves having an easy win against warriors, and guys like him saying they haven’t run into much trouble with thieves? One of you is trying different things and innovating and getting better, the other is giving up and calling for nerfs when they lose.

Dodge -> Block -> Endure Pain -> Dodge -> Fear Me

Fear me is a bit scetchy, since it won’t work on a thief in Bladestorm, but works wonders against Thieves Guild.

I actually jumped into a sPVP match on my thief specifically to test this. I sought out a warrior and stole from him. The tooltip does not say anything about being invulnerable. When I used the whirlwind, I gained no stability or invulnerability buffs. I was also being hit for damage while spinning.

Daggerstorm does give stability, and it also reflects ranged attacks. However, afaik it doesn’t grant immunity to melee or AOE attacks.

I’m not sure what you’re seeing when these thieves steal from you. But even if there is immunity, that doesn’t mean you have to sit there and take the damage. Dodging, then blocking, then dodging again will nullify a lot of the damage. GTFO with abilities like 3 and 5 with the greatsword, works wonders also.(you’ll need to drop target with 5 to be effective). If there’s cover nearby, pillar-hump like you’re playing wow and LOL as the thief rages at seeing “Obstructed” pop up for all his attacks.

As for thieves seeking out heavy armor classes…..etc….other games….etc: GW2 is not ‘other games’. Stop thinking of it in terms of that and start innovating and changing your strategy, and maybe thieves won’t be your Achilles’ Heel quite so much. If thieves are doing the same thing every time, they’re predictable. Use that predictability to beat them into the ground.

You will never ever win against a competent thief.

As a thief player I encourage you to keep thinking this way. It makes my fights that much easier.

As a player I encourage you to not assume you’ve lost before the fight even starts. You can NOT win fights against anyone thinking like that.

Do your homework. Check all sorts of different builds. Be open to changing your playstyle.

A good place to start would be the Yojack Build thread here in the warrior forums. Several people have switched to that build and had a lot of success. It won’t magically allow you to roflstomp all thieves, but it’s one proven way to increase your chances.

Another way to go is to play a thief for awhile. Get some serious in-depth knowledge of the class. Once you understand your enemy, it’s that much easier to beat him. I guarantee you that over half the stuff that people spout off about what thieves can do is outright false or just defeatist and filled with misunderstanding and ignorance. Let’s start with this thread:

Whirlwind stolen from warriors making the thief invulnerable: False. We might gain stability(I wasn’t able to test it accurately), but still take damage while spinning. I literally just tested this before posting. Thieves can take damage during whirlwind stolen from warriors. Use this as an opportunity to either dodge or hit back as hard as you can. Glass cannon thieves don’t have many HP.

Daggerstorm only reflects projectiles, not melee. Another opportunity to strike back with powerful melee attacks. Daggerstorm also does not do anywhere near 7-8k unless you somehow manage to get hit by every single dagger that fires, which would require you to run around the thief at around mach 6. Against a single target, daggerstorm barely even does as much damage as an auto-attack unless there’s a combo field, in which case that’s teamwork, not just the thief.

Haste+Pistol Whip+immob poison: Immob venom is 4 seconds. This is what you should be saving your stun breaker for. Also, Pistol Whip’s stun is only 1/2 seconds. You can literally walk out of the AOE of half of it.

Heartseeker Spam: Easily dodged under normal circumstances. Any thief who spams it is NOT someone you need to be overly concerned about. Use a stun-breaker if needed to get out of immob.

Being kited: Warriors have plenty of anti-kite tools. If you can’t figure out how to avoid being kited by any class, then you should probably go back to PVE.

Multiple thieves being stronger than multiple of any other class: Give me a break. Really? Every class has some extremely powerful combos if you take the time to look for them. Hell, even just two axe-warriors spamming are dangerous as hell.

Thief nullifying damage: Ok, stop. You know that stealth is not immunity, right? Just because he disappears from your screen doesn’t mean you can’t still hit him. AOE is your friend. Learn to anticipate how long stealth lasts and what a thief is likely to be doing while in stealth. Were his HPs low or did he spam a bunch of attacks when he disappeared? Then he’s probably running for cover to regain some health or reset the fight. Were his HP high? He’s probably setting up an attack. Keep your cool and be ready. Practice and understanding how stealth works is key.

Orb effects scaling too well on theives: Lolwut? You’re going have to elaborate on that one. The orb buff is the same for everyone. It doesn’t magically give thieves more stats than everyone else.

Mostly what I see are people getting mad because they got killed by a thief. Guess what? That’s not the class beating you, it’s the player. If you take the time to learn what a class can and can’t do, and change your own play and build accordingly, you’re going to do a LOT better. Instead of blaming the class that beat you, take yourself to their forums and start asking intelligent questions. What did the thief do to kill me? What was my build when I got beat? What can I change to try and counter it?

Or you could just throw your hands up in the air and call thief OP and keep losing.

If its backstab and pistol whip from the same person, what’s likely happening is he, starting out with dagger mainhand then swapping to sword\pistol for the finish. Likely he,s using the immobilize venom to lock you in place for the backstab followed by the pistol whip stun(which is only .25 seconds).

It possible the thief is also using the Haste utility skill to damage you more quickly, or the basilisk venom to stone you for another full second.

These kinds of builds are all out offense glass cannons. Stun breaks are pobably your best bet. Mashing the dodge button can sometimes work, although escaping a thief can be tricky.

Also, knowing the difference between a full stun and just an immobilize is important, since it can determine if you need to use a stun breaker “like shake it off” or can get away with something else such as the horn.

Anyway, if you can manage to escape or break the thief combo, a lot of times these guys won’t know what to do or will have blown all their cooldowns but sometimes you’re just up against a better player and will lose anyway. That’s just the nature of the game.

I main a thief but am levelling a warrior alt. I’m not sure how you can be downed during a stunlock using a yojack build unless you’re undergeared going against a jinzu insta-kill thief.

Or maybe they have a triple orb buff and you don’t? They could also be sporting other buffs as well in wvw. Food or potions maybe.

Any way you look at it, the best way to learn how to beat a thiefis to play one for awhile. Jump into sPVP and try some builds out. Find out what difficulties a thief faces and then exploit them on your warrior.

Let’s see…downed state vs queue to get back into WvW…..hmmmm

Granted, the person logging out still steals the chance for loot from whoever kills them.

I’m on the west coast of USA, but I tend to play late into the night. I’ve been considering xferring to SoR, but is it really as barren at night as people are saying? The guilds you guys have sound pretty amazing, and well organized, but I’d rather not get my kitten handed to me every night when I spend most of my WvW time.

More than likely they just stand there in disbelief because they guy they were rezzing just died for no apparent reason because the game hasn’t told their client your thief even exists yet.

I don’t doubt that this is a good use of Haste, but don’t get too excited. Or rather, enjoy it while it lasts, because once Anet gets a handle on this issue, many thieves are going to be in for a shock as to how different the playstyle is when people no longer suffer from randomly not seeing thieves come out of stealth.

It’s a little uncanny watching you play. It’s like watching myself play, but your gear is clearly a LOT better than mine. Actually, since I learned how to play Thief by watching your first video, that’s not very surprising. xD

I have to say, after watching the back and forth between SoR and DH in an attempt to see what server I wanted to end up on as a night player, I’m impressed with both. Yes, there’s been some hacking going on, and a few players letting that get out of hand, but the level of match and quality of combat that’s been going on from both sides is VERY impressive. Even Sorrow’s Furnace has had it’s moments over the past few days, although it looks like they’re starting to lose the war.

It’s going to be a difficult choice for me to choose which one to support, but I’m 99% certain I’m going to make one or the other my permanent home. I think you guys should be proud that you’re setting such a good example that people want to come to your servers.

OP, if you aren’t enjoying your thief, switch classes. There are plenty more to try.

I’m in the process of finishing up my warrior to 80 to give it a try in WvW. For the record, I didn’t say I didn’t enjoy my thief. Up a couple of posts earlier in fact, I said " I LIKE playing thief, and I am good at it."

I’m just a little dissatisfied with thief in WvW. Spam CB, profit. Whee…. :/

I’m not going to get into a class vs class breakdown of every ability. Elementalists don’t swap weapons because they swap elements; resulting in 4 sets of weapons instead of only 2 that everyone else gets. Mesmers and Elementalists don’t rely on stealth to stay alive, so of course trying to play one like that will result in you ending up dead.

As for Warriors, I suggest strongly that you go read Yojack’s build in the warrior forums, then come back and talk to me about how many dodges and escapes they have.

Heartseeker spam is so predictable and easy to overcome it’s not even funny. Any thief that relies on it will be easily overcome.

lol… wait… you did mention EXP in your post… uhh…

You may not know this, but you continue to accrue exp at level 80, gaining skill points which can be turned in for legendary components and recipes.

Stiv and Elithrar do bring up some good points.

But I don’t see how people can defend using Cluster Bomb so much when other builds that rely on using the same attack over and over, such as Heartseeker or Deathblossom, are almost universally hated. That’s kind of what goes into my feelings on WvW. Why is CB the only really good attack for sieges? Shouldn’t we have more options, even if it’s only an auto-attack?

Keeps and towers need supply to operate—and you need supply to siege them. Camps may not be huge on a raw points level, but having no camps will hurt you severely.

And as I said, thieves are just fine at taking camps. But so is any class. It’s when a thief decides he wants to help directly with a siege that there’s problems.

We don’t have good AoE? Find a group of enemies, pick out any warrior. Steal ^ Dagger Storm ^ Whirlwind = best aoe in game?

And how well does that tactic work against people on top of a wall? Not very well, I imagine. Ah well, back to CB spam! Wheee……

rekina.6078:

EVERY OTHER CLASSES FEEL LIMITS!! Why you can’t stand one single limit when you have multiple dash, 6 or more dodges, guaranteed escaping with stealth, dominating damage with HS, such survivability and versatile utilities? WHAT other classes have those spec in a single profession?

Because we don’t get all of that at once. Unless I’m missing the secret cow level where you unlock the 30/30/30/30/30 spec and loot the carrionknightrampagingvalkyrie armor set that gives you unlimited endurance and permastealth.

/sarcasm, in case you missed it. :/

Thieves, just like every other class, have to spec into a role. Sometimes that role is glass cannon, blow you up in 3 seconds. Other times it’s extreme survival and evasion. In order to do one thing very well, we give up power in another area. This isn’t unique to thieves, nor are thieves immortal gods of the battlefield, despite what some people would have you believe.

It is a pretty sad state of affairs when someone says “I can take 1v1 easy and 1v2 most of the time” and then finds room to complain!?!?

For the record, I never said it would be easy! My exact words were: “1v1 or even 1v2, I can take almost anyone.” Which isn’t all that bold of a statement when you stop and consider what ANY fully geared level 80 can do in WvW when specifically looking for such situations.

Also, just because I can take on 1v2 doesn’t mean I get away with that every time. I’d like to think I’m an above average player, but I’m by no means the best. I watch the videos, I read the strategies, I experiment with gear and builds to suit my own playstyle. then test it in sPVP where everything is equal. But there are many amazing players of ALL classes out there. It doesn’t happen very often, but I’ve been completely outplayed by players of all classes.

Other classes have their own issues, I don’t doubt for a moment! However, that doesn’t invalidate my opinion on this, nor does it preclude rebalancing for other classes either.

In the end all I was really doing was expressing my confidence in my ability to play the Thief class. I LIKE playing thief, and I am good at it. I just don’t feel like it’s up to par in WvW during sieges. This is a very narrow and specific aspect of the game, and not me claiming that Thief is massively UP or needs huge boosts or buffs.

I LOL’d.

Nice work. Keep it up!

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

I frigging hate taking down a thief in WvW or sPvP. That is the one class that I can’t figure out.

In sPVP I love the class. But then, there aren’t any sPVP maps where you assault a wall filled with ranged NPCs, arrow carts, and enemy players.

I would also like to know how people are getting such crits. Please, for the second time: post your spec and build. A nice video of this amazing siege tactic would be nice too, although I understand that’s not something you can just whip out of nowhere.

However, I feel with the way thieves are set up, this isn’t too bad. Our class is built more for 1v1, and I think that it’s a decent tradeoff to have less damage output when fighting large groups of enemies at a time. And to top it off, we’re the best class when it comes to chasing, and escaping. So what we lack in group damage, we more than make up for with mobility and 1v1 damage potential.

As I posted in the WvW forums, that just means Thieves are strongest in the areas of WvW that matter the least. Scouting or ganking small scale groups is fun, but doesn’t get your server any points. Capping supply camps is important, but again is the least beneficial, and has the most short term effect on scoring since they trade hands so often.

The more significant battles in WvW(taking towers, keeps, and orbs) leave thieves at a disadvantage. At best you’re spamming Cluster Bomb over and over, and hoping that people don’t just get out of the way. At worst you’re moving into dangerous proximity of the enemy zerg or walls.

This is the nature of my issue with the class.

Actually, what I want is the same 1200 base range weapon set that EVERY other class has available for use so that I can perform on equal footing in siege situations. Instead of a single attack.

Also, I never said that melee was useless. I said it was ‘weak in most situations.’ ZvZ, stepping out of line tends to get you slain, even as a thief that can sometimes stealth to get away. Melee can’t be used from the top of a wall, and dog-piling on enemies who are stupid enough to be outside the walls alone and running for a gate can be done more effectively from range, including immobilizes and stuns.

SB and P/P again suffer from 900 range. Which brings me back to either spamming Cluster, or putting myself in a position of extreme risk in order to get any other shot off. Everything a thief is gets boiled down to mashing the 2 button for sieges. And I’m pretty sure it’s well established by Heartseeker that spam strategies are not what Anet intends for people to be doing. Nor is it very much fun to do so, regardless of the supposed effectiveness of perfectly timed shots.

All of this contributes to what makes me feel like Thief is lacking for WvW. The class is strong in the areas that seem to matter the least in WvW.

Anyway, thanks for the input, guys. I guess it’s time for me to go buy an expensive SB and reinforce my 2 key. :/

I wanted the opinions of both the thief forum(where people were more likely to understand the specifics), and the WvW forum where a broader base of WvW experience could chime in. I expected a bit of hazing from the WvW forums, tbh, but it was worth a shot on the chance someone had good advice.

Kolly.9872:

Interesting… because for me the more I WvW as a Thief, the more I like it
sure I have to admit the it requires time to master this class and not every build or weapon set is the best for WvW..
but this doesn’t occur to every class?

No, not every build and weapon set is the best for WvW. But thief options are apparently limited to “use SB; spam 2.” if I’m reading what people are saying right. Or rather I should say: “Spam 2 with great skill and practice.”

So much of what makes a thief a thief just isn’t at all useful in taking anything with walls. Steal doesn’t work. Most stealth skills are useless from the top of a wall(except refuge). Melee is weak in most every aspect of WvW.

I’m not trying to say that thief is BAD at WvW. All I’m saying is that I just feel really limited in my options.

Oh, I have no problems in open field WvW. But open field doesn’t earn points for your server outside of camps. I’m specifically having problems with sieges. Gate assaults and defense and the like.

1v1 or even 1v2, I can take almost anyone. Picking people out of a zerg isn’t the issue. It’s doing the things that actually mean something long-term for your server where I feel thief is very weak.

900 range is almost crippling in any kind of siege situation. Choking Gas and Cluster bomb are mediocre, but mostly due to being condition based and again, only 900 range.

Every other class has a 1200 or better range option, why not thieves? And if you have a siege specific build you’re using, please share it with me, because I’ve spent hours trying to figure something out.

I don’t really have the tools to do anything other than pick off stragglers, or assassinate people in open field zerg vs zerg fights.

I mean, sure, I can occasionally scorpion wire someone off a wall if I’m lucky and it’s not obstructed or just outright misses. But the 900 range limit, lack of decent AoE, and melee-heavy attacks of the thief really limit what I can do besides assault supply camps and kill yaks.

I just get really annoyed whenever I end up in front of a gate or on the walls defending. I feel like the Thief is really kind of useless in any sort of assault or defense situation. I guess I could run supply, but that is a pretty thankless task, and doesn’t generally net me any EXP or Karma. Granted, controlling camps and supply is an important part of WvW, but I don’t like feeling as thought I’m being pigeon-holed into that role.

Am I off base here?

(double posted in the thief forums)

I don’t really have the tools to do anything other than pick off stragglers, or assassinate people in open field zerg vs zerg fights.

I mean, sure, I can occasionally scorpion wire someone off a wall if I’m lucky and it’s not obstructed or just outright misses. But the 900 range limit, lack of decent AoE, and melee-heavy attacks of the thief really limit what I can do besides assault supply camps and kill yaks.

I just get really annoyed whenever I end up in front of a gate or on the walls defending. I feel like the Thief is really kind of useless in any sort of assault or defense situation. I guess I could run supply, but that is a pretty thankless task, and doesn’t generally net me any EXP or Karma. Granted, controlling camps and supply is an important part of WvW, but I don’t like feeling as thought I’m being pigeon-holed into that role.

Am I off base here?

(double posted in the WvW forums)

REALLY trying to avoid HoD and hours long queues for WvW. I’m not trying to jump on the bandwagon, I just want a slight quality of life improvement from the virtually dead WvW action I’m getting right now.

I’m pretty unhappy with my current server’s night population. There are lots of people on, but it seems like none of them are very interested in WvW. There are some pretty hardcore dedicated people that DO participate in WvW, but there’s not much we can do when outnumbered so badly.

So I’m trying to refine my search for a good guild and server. There are many good guild posts in the Guild forums, but often they don’t have enough information about what I’m specifically looking for. I don’t even really care if a server is currently winning or not, as long as they have enough people on, and interested in trying to win in WvW.

Total server population I can easily see in the server list in-game. But that’s not the same as WvW population. Can anyone can point me in the right direction? Is there a good way to find out what I’m looking for?

That’s a pretty impressive guild description. If you put the same effort into running the guild as you did that description, I’m sure you’ve got a great thing going.

My question for you is: How active is Sanctum of Rall in WvW during the off hours of the night. Like someone posted above, I also am most active during the small hours of the night, usually after 10pm PST. I’m not very satisfied with my current server(we have almost no night presence in WvW), and it’s very frustrating to try and play when you’re constantly up against 2-3 times your own numbers from each of the other servers.

No joke Vexus. Half the time I’m amazed at how much people heal even WITH my poison ticking on them.

However, Mange has a point. The trait to increase duration is on the weak side, especially considering how many different ways thieves have to apply poison.

I did this and ended up staying with the class. Now level 80 and loving it! Beating people so hard they send me PMs asking what my build is and how I beat them.

The Thief community as a whole is pretty helpful. Don’t be afraid to ask us questions, even stupid questions. There’s a lot of good info, and we’re more than likely to help.

I have to agree with Metaphorm. All too often you see these videos that are a montage of all the best moments that someone cut out of hours worth of play. It’s nice to see a highlight reel every now and then, but it’s not a very good representation of what the class or the player is actually capable of. And some of these guys think they’re ‘keepin it real’ by showing them getting killed once at the end of the video. Don’t make me laugh.

Show us footage of REAL fighting. Win, lose, mistakes, perfect plays, everything. The good players will appreciate it, so long as you fast forward past the boring bits(NOT cut it out completely).

Take what follows with a grain of salt. I haven’t engaged in any tournament play yet myself, but I’ve been spending a lot of time in sPVP recently, since WvW is full of exploiters and hackers.

I run a Pistol/Dagger outlast build, with gearing for toughness and condition damage.

From what I’ve seen Mesmers generally don’t have a lot of burst damage. They can be almost as hard to pin down as a thief sometimes, but I’ve never felt threatened by one unless they have backup, at which point it becomes a very annoying fight. I’m not saying they can’t burst, since my in-depth knowledge of how Mesmers play is slight. I’m just saying I’ve never seen one do it.

So try the outlast build. As long as you can identify and stay on target for the real mesmer instead of the clones, you shouldn’t have any problems taking them down. Although it will take longer to kill them than you might be used to, which can lead to them either running for help, or lasting long enough for help to arrive. Use your own teamwork to counter.

Deadly Arts 30 (V)(VIII)(XII)
Shadow Arts 20 (V)(IX)
Acrobatics 20 (III)(VIII)

Hide in Shadows
Spider Venom
Devourer Venom
Signet of Shadows
Your choice of elite

It takes a little getting used to having a slower paced style. Heavy initiative use is generally bad, and good use of stealth, kiting, and dodges are key. You’ll be simultaneously weakening you enemies with venoms while healing. But this build can take on anyone 1v1, even Mesmers and Guardians if you’re careful.

The main weakness of the build is the lack of stun removal. If you’re up against a nasty 1v2 situation and the two people time their stuns/immobs right, they can put a serious hurt on you. Even a well timed single player with stuns can be trouble. But if you keep your cool, usually you should be able to pop Hide in Shadows or C&D to potentially reset the fight.

Fate.5961:

Around what time period are you usually on? We have an aussie here, but we can’t rely on his playing time. He’s up all night and drinks during the day.

I only work part time, so I’m on all sorts of different times of the day and night, but most of my time I put in after 10pm PST. That’d be on GMT-7 time, which would put me right around primetime for Australia and other oceanic times.

I’m sorry, I’m not really looking to help build up someone’s night crew from scratch. I’m interested in joining a guild who’s already well established and is looking to add seasoned players to their team.

Thanks for the post tho. I wish you luck with your efforts.