ok well say it like this , why bring aoe down when it doesnt need it , and bring these said classes / possible builds that are single target up to par with thieves insane damage + perma stealth that heals (aka pretty good survivability) or warriors high damage with gap closers and Stability / defy pain? (note: not saying warriors cant be killed just saying theyre up their with thieves in regards to heavy hitters in WvW/SPvP). Why not bring some of the classes that feel incredibly weak aoe and single target skills up to par with the heavy hitters? theres no need to nerf aoe , as ive said in another post most of the time aoe kills me , thats from a mass focus fire from a group / zerg and NO amount of nerfing to aoe would fix that without breaking it to a useless state.(Example: WvW Enemy Zerg defends the east Keep in Borderlands (believe usual name for it is Hills) where they get pushed to the keep lord and just aoe the ONLY DOORWAY into it and have ballistas setup as well preventing a group from entering , the issue is theyre at a solid chokepoint thats easily defendable with heavy focus fire , solution? put more then 1 entrance rather then make aoe less effective , there are far more ways to make aoe not actually seem AS USEFULL for raw damage but rather just as a form of control and not tick off alot of the community)
Well, why not go p/p and build for condition damage. Would that work?
normally yes , but P/P DOES technically have SOME aoe , the flame skill is a cone aoe , the poison shots are also in a sense a cone aoe (as in bullets can sometimes hit a target just behind the designated target) , stick glue aoe , auto attack is a very small aoe that the bullets explode and do a bleed i believe? and the other skill that consuses targets is a chain aoe , so……no…..aoes all over save for rifle. so long engineer , time for the age of Thief Wars to begin ;-D. (sry havent played my engineer in awhile to remember all the skill names XD)
well i don’t usually post on the forums but…in my opinion if you nerf the AOE thats going to take alotta fun out of the game, didn’t arenanet say in the world of tyria its all about skill if that is true then the skilled players should have no problem with aoe just as it is,watch for aoe, its the unskilled players that dont move out of the aoe that get roasted.
i do believe they did say something about being able to get things done in different ways? why destroy one of said ways? doesnt that sort of contradict the statement? why not leave aoe as is and just bring single target damage up to par with thieves and warriors? i mean in pve dungeon mobs have WAY too much health , especially some of the bosses (i expect alot of health but they sort of have an insane amount , i believe ive heard specifically the ones in HotW Explore?)
So while an aoe nerf is being discussed armies of 20 golems are still being portaled to reinforced gates and destroying them in 3 seconds with time warp and capping a tower or keep much faster than the waypoint resets so no oppurtunity for resistance can be made. And then the golems are waypointed to safety. 2000 supply worth of siege portaled to a gate then waypointed away.
Not to mention AOE is already so gimped because of the 5-target cap that a defending side could not take those golems down before they get the door down.
In the field, as a bunker Ele I will routinely stand in AOE as I can comfortably outheal the damage long enough to stall a push or halt a rout on our side using counter-CC. The idea that AOE is too strong in WVW is laughable.
I would prefer to see the AOE 5-target cap removed and only then look at reducing AOE damage based on distance from the geometric centre point/line of the AOE that same way DAOC did it. eg: centre of the AOE = full damage, close to edge of AOE = half damage.
WVW desperately needs mechanics that punish zerging/balling up so that more group-based strategies can flourish, or at least have the tools that they can counter zergs through skilful play. I find it ridiculous that the current game mechanics reward/encourage zerging/balling up/turtling in order to mitigate already woeful AOE damage when every other area of the game seeks to punish this behaviour.
i agree , as i said in an earlier post when we saw CD zerging our keeps all we could do was try to aoe to stall them. nerfing aoe is only promoting zerging (and stealth spamming thieves). Your idea of the center point of aoe being stronger then the edges is a very nice suggestion imo and id love to see that done (obviously wont happen if theyre trying to nerf aoe here cause that would make them OP ;-P). If anything the thought of aoe being too powerful right now is being suggested by 2 groups , stealth spam thieves , and ppl that just dont want to move out of aoe (either lagging to no end or just too lazy to do it , either case is not a justified reason to nerf aoe or make claims that its too strong).
To those that say do not stand in the red circles. Well when an objective is being sieged if you want to even try and defend it then you are standing in a red circle. At least I am because I am not even able to shoot over a 2×4
ive never had an issue like that unless i stop trying to move away from the circles. most of the time im just not paying attention though tbh XD never been killed by an aoe. ive had to get focused down by a rangers longbow before i get dropped (thats aoe AND single target attacks mind you). AoE is not the issue here , we all know it.
Edit for Joke : At least AoE is not an issue for those of us that cant stealth ;-)
Just wondering are you a Ranger? Reason I am asking is i am getting quite frustrated at how useless I feel in certain situations. Like the one I mentioned. I am not able to hit anyone from a keep wall unless i jump on a tiny little ledge or use my ONE AOE ability which really does not cover much than the top of the wall and maybe a foot or two past it because for some reason the game feels I can not shoot or maybe it’s see over a ledge about half a foot high. By having to get on that stupid little ledge, to get off a shot or two I am in red circle the whole time if the enemy is not completely incompetent that is.
Also are you saying you have not seen players die all the time in just this manner? Because I have just started to revive players in this very situation instead of even trying to engage the enemy and it happens all the time. ALL the time.
Now I am not saying players should not die to aoe or anything like that and i really feel there are way more important issues to be “fixed” cough “PETS F2 abilities” “PETS being little more than useless outside of PVE” “Not being able to stable a pet and having it constantly appear if i drop more than five feet in a jumping puzzle” COUGH and maybe some other classes have issues lol.
But as others have said in this thread regarding AOE. AOE should not be doing more single target damage than single target skills. Couple that with many AOEs not needing to have LoS to be able to hit targets and they really really should not do more damage than single target skills that need LoS to use or that cant be used because of some stinking little ledge i keep stubbing my big toe on.
no havent really worked on my ranger yet , so far ive been doing Necro , Engineer , Warrior and Gaurdian (gaurdian is more there for support and reflecting things back when on wall defense).
Ok heres the point of AoE (besides the only decent way to get a thief stealth spamming that is somehow not broken / op beyond all belief?) , AoE is the thing we have to prevent Zergs from bull rushing keeps / towers , actually making fights Last Long rather it just be something that goes by in mere seconds. If it went by in mere seconds it would be extremely boring , AoE is there to try to hold back a bigger force then what you have at your tower/keep (and trust me ive seen CD outnumber us at FA for ALONG time till recently so it ends up being a big help). nerfing aoe at this point would only be helping the zerg and not ppl defending. This possible nerf to aoes is only catering to Zergs and Stealth spamming Thieves.
Edit: its a form of control with damage that is sub-par as it is.
(edited by Enundr.9305)
Just listened to the initial developer session where the topic of this thread was first mentioned. The only specific problem I recall being discussed is that players were getting through some dungeon encounters by spamming AoEs. The fellow charged with discussing changes to WvW was not the one who brought the AoE issue up. If players can avoid red circles, the AI should be able to as well.
well when talking about AI , alot of the hostile ones end up having a significant amount of health and good dmg , sad when its in an escort event that theyre paper thin in health and no damage ;-D
transcriptWe are encourage people […] to break away from large mass mentality of zerging
transcriptWvW is about large scale massive battle mentality where individual players are not as important
Anyone else think these statements are hilariously contradictory?
Course they are and reducing the effectiveness of aoe will make zerging even more prominent. They state there have been complaints about aoe spamming. Well I haven’t seen 1. If its in SPVP then change the balance for SPVP only, they can do that.
I dunno about it making zergs more prominent. I am a Ranger and I can basically not do much when im in a keep or tower being sieged.
It goes like this. I slowly creep up to the edge of keep/tower and look to see if i can spot any Mesmers. As carefully as I can i try to hop on on the ledge that is not even as high as my kneecaps because if I dont then I cant hit anything even though my kitten bow is hanging over the bloody wall. Finally I get on the ledge after falling off/being pulled off a few times and im dead in 2 secs or less from AOE by a toon/toons i cant even see because they are not even in LoS.
Nerf Aoe but let it hit double the players sounds good. Seriously soo many players HAVE to hang onto being able to kill a ranger in less than 3 secs that it clouds their judgement. If there is not some better balance put into the game far more players will be lost than those who ragequit because they cant stand outta LoS and clean off keep walls in a couple secs.
Anyway I am sure other classes can be used in my example instead of Ranger but its my only 80 so is what I know. I will point out that I never never never even try to stomp anyone any more I just use my one aoe. Which does hit downed players kitten hard. I just got sick of chasing every class but ranger around the field even after they are downed lol.
ive seen what your describing happen , and never seen someone get killed by AoE , ive used the one kit the engineer has to yank someone off , prior to that i let ppl know i was about to do it. what you saw was Focus Fire of single target skills , NOT aoe.
Oh really? Well what classes can focus fire single target me down without being in LoS and not using AOE? Not trying to be rude because i very well maybe missing something and if so I wanna know.
believe you said you got pulled / fell off then dead in 2 seconds? that in how it is said might make it sound you got yanked Outside to where invaders are coming from therefore right into their grasp LoS not being an issue. or you meant your still ON the ledge and you possibly got pelted with siege weapons all arrayed against your keep/tower.
To those that say do not stand in the red circles. Well when an objective is being sieged if you want to even try and defend it then you are standing in a red circle. At least I am because I am not even able to shoot over a 2×4
ive never had an issue like that unless i stop trying to move away from the circles. most of the time im just not paying attention though tbh XD never been killed by an aoe. ive had to get focused down by a rangers longbow before i get dropped (thats aoe AND single target attacks mind you). AoE is not the issue here , we all know it.
Edit for Joke : Atleast AoE is not an issue for those of us that cant stealth ;-)
transcriptWe are encourage people […] to break away from large mass mentality of zerging
transcriptWvW is about large scale massive battle mentality where individual players are not as important
Anyone else think these statements are hilariously contradictory?
Course they are and reducing the effectiveness of aoe will make zerging even more prominent. They state there have been complaints about aoe spamming. Well I haven’t seen 1. If its in SPVP then change the balance for SPVP only, they can do that.
I dunno about it making zergs more prominent. I am a Ranger and I can basically not do much when im in a keep or tower being sieged.
It goes like this. I slowly creep up to the edge of keep/tower and look to see if i can spot any Mesmers. As carefully as I can i try to hop on on the ledge that is not even as high as my kneecaps because if I dont then I cant hit anything even though my kitten bow is hanging over the bloody wall. Finally I get on the ledge after falling off/being pulled off a few times and im dead in 2 secs or less from AOE by a toon/toons i cant even see because they are not even in LoS.
Nerf Aoe but let it hit double the players sounds good. Seriously soo many players HAVE to hang onto being able to kill a ranger in less than 3 secs that it clouds their judgement. If there is not some better balance put into the game far more players will be lost than those who ragequit because they cant stand outta LoS and clean off keep walls in a couple secs.
Anyway I am sure other classes can be used in my example instead of Ranger but its my only 80 so is what I know. I will point out that I never never never even try to stomp anyone any more I just use my one aoe. Which does hit downed players kitten hard. I just got sick of chasing every class but ranger around the field even after they are downed lol.
ive seen what your describing happen , and never seen someone get killed by AoE , ive used the one kit the engineer has to yank someone off , prior to that i let ppl know i was about to do it. what you saw was Focus Fire of single target skills , NOT aoe.
ok lets just go ahead and say it , WHAT ABOUT ENGINEER? arent virtually most of the kits aoe? turrets already feel useless , grenade / bomb kits are aoe , flamethrower kit is cone dmg / control , elixir gun = lol in damage? so what happens to engineers in general here if aoes are being toned down? ive already made suggestions to remove one of the engineer kits (preferrably bomb kit since its a close range clone of grenade kit) and replace it with a experimental rifle kit for single target damage. so if were seeing an aoe nerf here , does that mean if engineers want a solid form of damage theyre going to be pidgeon holed into a rifle glass cannon build? sorry but i have had no issue with AoE killing me so much as running into a massive zerg. AoE is more so used as a form of control , never seen it outright kill scores of enemies.
I dont think thats a bad Idea Lewis , but then comes the issue where its an MMO vs the listed games were not mmos (i believe?). you have alot more to deal with then something thats not as constant / doesnt affect as many people. i dont doubt there are clever ppl out there , its an issue where actions can affect the community as a whole rather then an isolated game.
Hello , ive been thinking after reading some posts about people not liking armor on Charr and Sylvarri , how it appears just as human armor put onto them and it doesnt feel right for those races. Well ive had a thought come across my mind. Add Cultural Crafted Armor (and weapons can be thrown in too) making them cost either karma or coin to learn from the trainers. Just a thought into them. (apologize in advance if there was another post suggesting this.)
I dislike the fact that sometimes my minions can be easily crushed(even with the +50% hp trait) by some random AoE Spell making summoning them a waste(Kholer from AC and Lupicus from Arah are good examples), any chance to reduce AoE/Cleaving effects received by minions or making them more resilient to them?
I would also like to point that some minions skills have a really long cooldown and they could be somehow shorter or at least affected by the % cooldown on minion spells trait, I mean for the cd/dmg/use it has the bone fiend utility use(root and a little more dmg) is laughable
As to the part where the minions die to easily it seems everything that is non player (pets , minions NPCs that have to be defended for an event) die way to easily and end up driving people insane , annoying people, etc. And as far as ive seen with flesh golem (melee minion) ive noticed if i jump off a ledge with it summoned and i dont die (so could be an incredibly short ledge with no ramp/staircase down) the golem teleports to me and wont attack things unless i command it to charge for awhile. So i think that further points to possible pathing issues. (sorry if someone else pointed this out as well , just woke up and havent gone through all the posts XD )
soooo……if it hasnt always been there as far as all the times ive hit it , and the transformation is labeled with the names from the calderon forest event…..sorta sounds like a bug?
this is the first time ive seen it then <,< cause it hasnt always been like that XD even more so if you hover over the transformation buff its labeled with the names from the calderan forest event as well.
Ezeriel , really about engineers? i have one at 80 and those kits are scaling horribly and end up being useless ( grenades are nice for WvW Wall defense ….not much else but our only REAL competant kit) , warriors are one of the classes deemed OP so a necro not doing as much condition dmg then one no matter what spec (sorta laughing cause i have warrior and necro and im lolololing over mobs left and right with conditions and winning). so trying to compare a DECENT class to an OP class? doesnt fly man. and Engineer kits arent scaling that well , ive dropped engineers as easily as any other non op class. so yes engineers need their kits to actually scale better , and condition necros are sorta eating things up if the mob isnt a condition remover.
hello , on fort aspenwood for the event to capture the Temple/Altar of Melandru in Cursed Shore at the Verdance Waypoint , when the fight to take down the risen priest of melandru is going on leads up to a point where he goes immune to damage and summons acolytse to heal him , ok so we try to do that but we end up being turned into the random animal forms from the Calderon Forest events and it prevents us from doing any for of on par damage for the event , therefore the priesti s back to full health in an instant.
its not a punishable offense if your even talking to people , it shows your an actual player and not a bot. why this was even passed as a ban raises some serious questions now cause ive been all over the map too farming DEs whenever possible. And yes it is not a punishable offense at all , though like someone else said its not bad to take a break and get some fresh air ;-) , do your brothers make any form of communication in /map chat or /say when other people are near? it might help reduce the chances of being claimed as a bot or multiboxer.
as Dee just said those are a good portion of the reasons why the combat seems that way , not the holy trinity. As i saw earlier up the post , you already have several games that try to be “wow on crack” and none of them do that well….some have gone a F2P (or a close to a F2P mode anyway) , you dont need the holy trinity in the sense wow has , it doesnt work here.
ive made a standard procedure before i think of reporting someone , i make several attempts to communicate with said player , party invites , whispers and /s. if i dont get any form of response and see them continuously running off to do other stuff then its hard to deny that the said player has a high chance for botting , even if you have chat filtered you can see a party invite and in turn leaves very little in their defense. i think thats a fair procedure ppl should consider checking for bots imo as far as a player can do.
bring the dervish back , i think it would be interesting to see it in a GW2 setting….;-)
now i could be wrong about this but the mursaat werent exactly populated at the end of GW1? and with regards to Harpy as a race , i dont think that would be possible , theyve never been friendly and have been more close to an animal nature that can speak rather then sentient like centaurs , not saying impossible mind you …..just very unlikely. yes you see them talk like i said , but most of it is references to some kind of queen of sorts? it doesnt seem like they could be remotely close to a playable race level of intelligence regardless.
i could imagine , should they add the Tengu (comeone we all see that area thats walled up at LA and Caledon Forest ;-P ) expansion that this area might get touched up on for some reason. or possibly a free content update again like lost shores? who can say. i have always wandered around trying to look at it myself….
well ive had a suggestion after getting my engineer to 80 , havent particularly worked it out , but as i noticed we have 2 kits basedo n aoe explosives (grenade and bomb) i was thinking , why not replace one (bomb most likely) and replace it with a new type of kit dedicated to more strong and competitive single target dps , sort of like an experimental rifle. and this is aimed more at PvE , having it worked out in pvp might be a different thing. But as with what i called it , Experimental Rifle keeps it in line with the engineer theme , inventing new gadgets , weapons , toys , etc. lets face it engineers lack a strong single target dps , grenade lobbing is solid aoe dmg + condition stacking , though generally not enough to full blown down someone unless your sitting ontop of a wall in WvW. But also adding some diversity between kits , 2 kits based around aoe explosive ? needs to change 1 of them , flamethrower (cone attacks rather then a single target dmg , much less actually GOOD damage and more focused on Control) , Elixir Gun (more of a support kit) which does virtually nothing in damage , though ive still managed to pull it out in pve to do some healing. But just a thought.
As Sicktor said , that would be an ideal suggestion. The Free waypoint is also nice , but there should be more incentives for race exclusive stuff at their capitals. whether discounts when stocking up on salvage kits , gathering tools , or anything else. There has to be incentives for everyone to hang out at their homes.
in regards with why OP wants them removed from Monthly , Monthly / Daily generally ensue PvE environments , killing enemy players for the monthly is a pvp action , where as you have a monthly pvp and its not in there for some reason? its why theres 2 seperate dailies / monthly , one for pve , the other for pvp. and im sure some ppl would LOVE to randomly argue saying WvW is also a pve , if you have to kill a player for credit , then thats pure pvp. end of story.
Carrying a whole team with guardian-rivalling sustain and utility is oh so satisfying.
i dont care if ppl think the class is OP or UP or whatever , dont go and say you didnt make such a claim though , with that line right there you just did comapre it saying it rivaled a gaurdian when in your post after someone called you out you say you didnt. and onto the topic , i generally run with elixir gun on my hotbar for some heals , use the human healing skill Prayer to Dwayna or whatever its called , and generally switch out the other 2 utility skills as needed , in regards to elite i switch it out between support drop and mortar. the class is fun , maybe not necesarily as strong as other classes for one reason or another , but its fun even as support.
OP , you are right in regards to pvp / WvW without a doubt , in pve they do a pretty solid support job though , in regards to overall damage Engineer is way behind , this is a comparison to a ranger and a warrior i see the engineers damage is still lacking , i enjoy the class mind you but it does need more touchup in regards to bringing it up to par with any of the classes that are generally not insane in damage (thieves warriors mesmers(though mesmers arent that bad unless the player is REALLY GOOD)). The class is really fun it just lacks that punch for all the gadgets and tools it has , i could say it feels very sluggish as well.