Guild Wars 2

leman.7682:

Leave Allie alone. She’s just doing her job, and is great at it lately, mind you.

I agree that the patch month ago messed more than it fixed, but things are going in the right direction now. I cannot believe that one can claim that our (necro’s) survivability was hammered this patch. It was improved, by large. There is still a long way ahead, but we’re moving there.

Everyone needs to realise, that the tournament is coming and some kind of status quo needs to be maintained until it concludes. After that, I am sure, new balance patches will come and we will see another set of changes – buffs and nerfs.

oh i know allie’s doing her job , and im not trying to be mean / insulting to her……but then you said one of the main issues right there , the game is being balanced (or feels like it) just for the purposes of the tournament , and ppl that arent into that stuff are feeling the heat from that (ie pve’ers) and our survivability? unless your going with spectral armor all the time (ie limiting our build choices , aka not a good thing ) your just as squishy before in DS , just not able to absorb those big hits anymore , ive tested this vs a champ centaur in harathi hinterlands (group event , was trying to duo it with a thief since he was asking for help alot) , holy crap have i never seen my DS drop so fast , this is with 20 into spit , 20 into DM and 30 into curses , i went down so much it wasnt even funny , i got down to the point of death upon down , thief was fairing much better in survivability at that point , DS was getting torn to pieces and as a condition mancer , i guess we dont have as much LF generation? >.> im sry but trying to say our survivability was improved is far from the truth……..were getting torn to shreds in pve now , and i just dont feel like loggong onto my necro anymore….my main toon since beta / launch……-_-

nakoda.4213:

/facepalm

there is no such thing as a pve “meta”

there are monsters to kill.

can you kill them? check.

problem solved.

any notions that you must be certain specs just to play pve are purely player manufactured and entirely irrelevant.

well lets keep this mostly about pvp , but just in response to your statement , ever try a MM necro? so much aoe cleavage attacks in dungeons that make that the most undesired spec in the Necro skillset , old MM lovers are sadded by this because it was their favorite way to play necro , even if it wasnt the only way……so these notions arent out of dilussion or thin air…… if you play a necro at all make one a MM spec and see what i mean…..youd be surprised…..but thats off topic here lol

Allie i talked with ppl in game and im hearing alot of them actually in favor of the old seperation of pve / pvp skillset we had in GW1 , it was a great system that many ppl love and still feel would actually help the game and the ppl from hating the pvpers and the pvers…..as much as this is a diff game , some things are so good thakittens always good to bring them with you…….as in other things in life , if ppl have experienced them in their prime , ppl always love the classics…..the same concept is here with the old skill seperation of pvp/pve we had in GW1……. and yes someone did bring up a valid point about WvW earlier.

That point was with the old split of pvp/pve skills , how to categorize WvW , it was in that other thread i was suggesting this before , it would be a more challenge in WvW due to npcs being there , it applies a PvPvE feeling , a slightly new concept in mmos lately (not a bad one mind you) that would add challenge of trying to decide to balance it on pvp or pve because the 2 can be balanced diff , ignoring the fact that alot of WvW is a zerg fest for the most part to begin with XD so then that could be the only challenging thing there , though since alot of it is a zerg fest i slightly feel keeping it balanced on the pve side due to the npcs being there wouldnt be a bad thing myself.

the only build id like to see actually viable is MM…..but this wont happen ….ever….theyd have to rework alot of things in pve so dungeon stuff doesnt aoe cleave everything to death , so hope has been shattered to see the best type of Necro since GW1 brought back to life , instead we are now those affliction locks from wow (with a few ppl TRYING the power builds , but conditionmancers are more common) and balance is being done soley on pvp for some reason , in turn HURTING pve more……i posted in the pvp forum to make the seperation of pvp and pve skills again like it was in the original gw…..but then got a response of “the games are too diff” and “dont want to do something old , want to do new stuff” type of response………..hope for this game surviving long for ppl that arent JUST ONLY into PvP is shorter every day , with new mmos around the corner , anet has to ask , which crowd is bigger and less whiny , the pvp or the pve crowd? can tell you which one even if its blatently obvious that to not notice which ones are which youd have to be so blind that you couldnt hit a freaking barn.

Kamui , if you read around the pvp threads , theyve stated they are NOT going to do the same system we had back in GW1…..sad i know….i LOVED that system since it prevented PvP from destroying PvE and vice versa.

Nay of the Ether.8913:

Enundr.9305:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Someone said before GW = Guardian Warrior.

The idea of just messing up the entire necro class for the tPvP thing at Pax is a lousy thing to do. There is also PVE and WvW, but neither was considered. Necros are still struggling to get into groups, and a lot of players only want guardians and warriors. Why? Because necromancers have poor DPS, and rubbish defense…. and then they remove our only defense against spike damage. Why not remove the class from PVE then while you’re at it?

Lets face it. Making the necromancer class focused on attrition is a bad idea for PVE, when you consider PVE discourages condition builds, and encourages DPS. And the fact that bosses all have Defiant means we have no defense what so ever. No wonder the necro is so unpopular in PVE. Same with the ranger by the way. If you only balance the ranger for tPvP, you’re going to have a lot of very disappointed PVE players, who are wondering why everyone but the guardian is getting the short end of the stick.

im pretty sure at this point with all the threads about STOP BALANCING THE GAME FOR TPVP and yet we still see balance being done for TPVP solely , is a pretty big sign there is no more hope for this game , that anyone that doesnt focus on TPvP will be ignored. its about time to move onto a new game ladies and gents , this is a sad truth , but a truth nonetheless. i hope Anet enjoys that small tPvP group they keep catering to as they drive the bigger group onto the next mmo.

yes and YES. Split it already. I’m still arguing the DS overflow was wrong, but at the bare minimum, split the skills . I understand it’s hard and takes time, but guess what? The players see that too. They see the time and effort that was spent on splitting them and appreciate it. their appreciation spills over directly to gem sales, and thus (a small amount) of money in your pockets (and a large in NCSOFT’s) so everyone is happy. How can you lose that way? We’re not asking for insane buffs. We just want to be able to play our class without putting in twice the effort with half the reward. That’s all.

well dont expect it happening , i brought this up in the pvp thread where their attention is at the most , and the responses i got generally states it wont be done cause they dont want to do something that was already done in GW1 , that the game is too diff (not exact words mind you but you can find the responses from Allie in there) , so my hopes of this game actually getting fixed so pvps and pvers can both enjoy it are shattered , itll be focused purely for pvp and thats the end of it.

Kravick.4906:

Fenrir.5493:

I hope they address the thing that they have so much deathshroud that is just OP, before this it was fair but now they have like 3 bars of health, they should give this class another thing to move and not make them tanks, this is not good aproach because they are becoming really OP by having so much health.

Actually, all they did was fix a bug.

First, necros took double damage while in death shroud. Second, instead of only giving us 66% of our base health pool, death shroud now gives us 100% of our base health pool. So now all the claims that we have two health bars is correct, as before we had only 2/3rds of what we were originally supposed to have, and we took double damage.

lol im trying to figure out where you guys are getting this much LF pool , with 20 into spite and 20 into death tree (and 30 into curses) i see a champion centaur in hinterlands drop me as fast now as it did before , just now i dont have that survivability vs a spike dmg in pve ( i would post in the pve /class forum but those forums are completely ignored at this point) , so yea there was no noticeable increase to our LF in pve atleast , still no good survivability , this is trying to use it defensively and still get mowed down btw……..this patch was a tremendous joke to Necros…..you ask ppl ingame that arent in the spvp / tpvp stuff and youll hear the same stuff.

add to that , it was a crit proc , why wasnt it put in lower power or higher precision trees? noneo f that made sense either…..

Engels.8537:

Sabre.1275:

The game is better now than it ever was. But balance patches will continue to improve the game.

…

pretty much Eng….. lol

Engels.8537:

JonathanSharp.7094:

I say play it a while and then see how you feel.

It feels bad, really bad,

couldnt agree more , as far as pve (like ALOT of ppl do rather then tPvP or sPvP) im seeing my DS life force drop just as fast as before…..so still waiting to see how it was “fixed” ? lol beyond now not having a solid defense against a dungeon boss , still not seeing any part of this patch that was remotely good for necros , seems to only have benefited the powerhouses that already exist (looking at you thief class).

but he does raise a valid point there HiSaZuL , the conditions thing…..why is it like this if necros are more heavily conditionmancers as their best source of dmg if theres another your dmg turns negligible? why was it like this and not MM being remotely viable? minions are useless in anything that isnt Open World PvE , that is something that needs to be looked at seriously due to condition caps being nearly manageble by one person , in turn negating the effects of another conditionmancer…….tell me whats wrong with that? a fix for minions would be greatly loved right now with all the crap thats being thrown at us to sate pvp needs……

whether if it was a bug or not , it was beyond fun , one of the things i always look forward to and a life saver…..that fun has been taken away……and alot of this is due to the pvpers……this game has gotten a lot sadder and not as fun…….i guess at this rate itll be time to move onto another mmo and hope they stop listening and destroying the pve aspect of the game because of pvpers…….yes this is a true point , pvpers end up destroying the pve aspect of ALOT of games , why? cause they B*** and MOAN nonstop due to someone smacking them silly , instead of getting back up , learning what you did wrong and trying again…….they decide to try to destroy that class so theirs can reign supreme (even if their class already could if they could actually LEARN about their class and its functions) in pvp , destroying pve in turn. i remember this in rift , where the best mages ended up struggling to be on the same dps lvls as the worst rogues / warriors , and clerics becoming god mode in pvp after a certain RR…..one day….well see mmos that completely seperate these 2 aspects or just flatout stop listening to the whiners in the pvp section and test it out themselves.

LastDay.3524:

Enundr.9305:

LastDay.3524:

Deified.7520:

I agree, i never wanted dhuumfire. I dont think any necromancer wanted it or was expecting it.

I wanted Burning. Heck, my Necro has been fire themed for ages.
Although I was thinking of an off-hand Torch, not a trait.
For example if the torch could self-inflict Burning you could use it with Well of Power for Aegis.

As for other games with Necros using fire…
Diablo 2 was the first game with a Necromancer that I remember playing.
One of their summons was a Fire Golem.
That Necro was also the reason I eventually found GW1 and then GW2.

I think that Burning on Necro is great in of itself, it just shouldn’t work so well with Terror builds.

It it had been something like “Vampiric Bite inflicts Burning”, or just in a trait position where it can’t be combined with Terror it’d be perfectly fine.

If we had to choose “Use a Terror build OR use a Dhuumfire build” we wouldn’t have everyone running the same build.

yes there was a mission back in GW1 as well with fire golems that came to cantha from the ring of fire , a fiery minion though , is still not the same as the necro causing the burning him/herself , they reanimated corpses that had the property of fire already.

Yeah Necros in GW1 and Diablo 2 were quite different from one another.

To create a Fire Golem the Diablo 2 Necro just accelerates air until it bursts into flames due to the friction, then he instills a spark of life in the resulting fire.
All they need is air and life.

maybe , but thats not the same as wielding fire as a weapon itself , thats the reanimation process , which tend to be diff then wielding fire magic (like an ele for example) as a weapon , necros in core essence are those that practice raising the dead and plagues usually , i cant imagine beyond animating fire golems a necro actually wielding fire as a weapon (a torch maybe? XD )

necro never needed burning , plain and simple , remove it , reverse all the freaking changes that were just done to them cause theyre pretty useless in pve now , trying to figure out where these ppl are saying they last longer with the “fix” to DS , cause champs still eat through it just as fast……lol much….

DXIEdge.2789:

It was a bug. Unintended.

We freaked out when our teleport spots left, and you know what happened? We were told it was unintended. We were using a part of the game that should not have been there.

Same thing here. If you enter death shroud and you take 20k, the remainder should go to your health pool, which is the 2nd highest in the game ill add.

Quit complaining that a bug was fixed. And there is a little more emphasis on PvP right now because PvE is getting new content every 2 weeks and a major selling feature of GW2 is about to occur.

ok ill stop you at that last part , new content every 2 weeks? you do realize most / if not all , are temporary content right? i wouldnt call that new content , i call it temporary at most. its short and due to it being limited , ppl burn through it fast rather then taking time and enjoying it , not that the content is bad but your mistaking in that sense , what happens 3 months from now? you dont experience current content because its TEMPORARY. please dont try to say were getting new content , theres no new main story expansions yet , no new land masses (in current map , which if youve done exploring , can see some possible ones that have been intentionally walled off btw).

Lily.1935:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Thanks Folly!

ilr.9675, I definitely understand your point of view, but understand that observing the CoC/ToS is very important on these forums. I would post on there more, but I think my PvP title makes people think I only ever care or think about PvP (which is definitely not true). I don’t think it’s possible to estimate how many skills we would have to split, but I can say that if we feel it is absolutely necessary for the health of the game, we will split a skill/trait.

It is absolutely necessary for the health of the game. I’m a huge fan of Guild Wars. I love the game with all my heart. It is number 1 on my top 10 games of all time. I will defend the game to my grave. I will not, however, Defend Guild Wars 2 in the same way. The reason being is you are making the same mistakes you did in Guild Wars 1 expecting that the outcome will be different just because the skill system is different.

However what you need to understand is that the similarities that the 2 games hold are glaringly obvious to a PvE player who has played both games. The Damage scaling and health scaling for example might function on 2 completely different systems, but the end result of what you are trying to do is the same. So the same problems arise from this as it did in the first game.

There needs to be a split between PvE and PvP. personally, I believe that there should be a split between PvP, PvE and WvW, but that is getting ahead of myself. Going back to what I said earlier, I’m being warn down by the balance problems that are cropping up in PvE because of the balance being made for PvP players. Where some professions might be fine in PvP, they are suffering greatly in PvE because of the balance required for PvP.

A Huge example of this is the change you guys made to death shroud. By making the damage bleed over, combine with the fact that the necro doesn’t have ways to block, teleport, stealth, or go invulnerable in a pinch it leaves them at the mercy of many of the enemy attacks to take them in full. Before the update I was doing fine. Not great, just fine. After the update I am now struggling more then ever in situations where my glass cannon Mesmer wouldn’t have a problem surviving. I understand that this change might be good for PvP, however a change like this to already undesirable profession harms the over all usability in that format and further continues stagnation of combat in the meta.

This also posses a problem considering that Your PvP and PvE have 2 sets of rules for combat and engagement. Where as In PvP you might be able to bring a large number of CC to try and limit your foes options in the engagement, in PvE the enemies don’t use the same skillls that you do and have a completely different way of attacking then a player would. Thus balancing the system on one of them will always cause problems with the other.

GW1 had the advantage in balance on this part as the enemy forces all used most of the same skills that you as a player had access to and followed the same rules of engagement. However, even GW1 proved that the split between the skills was absolutely necessary even with a much closer resemblance between the 2 formats.

So in conclusion, assuming that it isn’t needed, or very little of it is needed is a disservice to your PvE community.

yes pve and pvp do need to be seperated , the one that would be challenging due to the npcs being there is WvW , in essence you look at a PvPvE type of situation making that one a tough call to make. PvPvE isnt a new concept , but its still a fun concept nonetheless , WvW is the new part / change to the PvPvE thing and i love it myself , granted i didnt play DaoC i think it was? Anyway , i can see issues arrising in trying to balance WvW just because its the mix of PvPvE thing , adjust it with pvp and taking down the npcs might be more troublesome , as those of us that played warhammer online :Age of Reckoning saw where you had mini bosses before the king fight that 2 shotted tanks and 1 shotted anyone else , while dealing with other players , theres challening and then theres ridiculousness , i prefer the challenging myself , but then we have to be careful here when trying to balance a pvpve type of thing , one wrong step and it could bring up ALOT of complaints.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Guild Wars is a very different game from Guild Wars 2. I understand the sentiment (I myself was a Guild Wars player, Spearmen 44/50!), but we did not build a new game to be just like an old one. While we can certainly gain inspiration from it, comparing the two skill systems is not very helpful because they are vastly different.

well i played alot of things , and as far as the older generation of gamers remember , some things never needed to be changed , that they were GREAT concepts to have that didnt make the game bad , and promoted it to boot for such a great part of it that it successfully did that. I grant i missed out on EQ1 and such , came in just before wows launch but started on a little “kiddie” type of mmo , which was fun beyond belief for me , as its sequel is now making its way to america (iRO) , but thats offtopic on that XD I think doing that seperate skill system like we saw in GW1 will save alot off grief for ppl and can have a team dedicated for pvp balance and one for pve balance. that way complaints are just mostly left up to pvps at a majority while pvers wont get hurt by the ones complaining in pvp , and vice versa.

PS i wasnt an alliance / guild battle person , i was always a fort aspenwood / jade quarry guy , i love objective based pvp (aka i love wvw here)

Allie Murdock.8152:

Thanks Folly!

ilr.9675, I definitely understand your point of view, but understand that observing the CoC/ToS is very important on these forums. I would post on there more, but I think my PvP title makes people think I only ever care or think about PvP (which is definitely not true). I don’t think it’s possible to estimate how many skills we would have to split, but I can say that if we feel it is absolutely necessary for the health of the game, we will split a skill/trait.

now allie i say this cause alot of us are feeling it atm (ppl that are upset that is) , we WANT to see the same seperation of pve and pvp that we saw in GW1 , its what most of us came here loving the game for , ive played enough mmos to tell you decisions made to balance based on pvp that affect pve utterly desroy one aspect , and vice versa with pve destroying pvp. thats why the complete seperation of the 2 skillsets should be done again , with pve versions and pvp versions of skill. it was a great system and i feel it would mitigate alot of these complaints if they were kept seperate again. sure there will be other complaints about pve but alot of the complaints now are pvp “balancing” pve inproperly. We WANT to see the very same thing many of us loved GW1 and were hoping to see in GW2 , it was one of the things i bragged about when this game was first coming out , how my friends were skeptical cause of the pvp balacning pve thing , i bragged how great GW1 was doing it , and lately i feel like ive had my foot in my mouth the whole time since then……please look into FULLY seperating the skills again with pvp versions and pve versions. it was a great system that kept the game alive in the first one (as far as ppl who like to pve and pvp , and those that only liked specific pve or pvp). there will only be more hate that other mmos have to suffer with because they dont understand this as well , cause its a great system to do which gets rid of alot of grief from ppl that are upset about it.

LastDay.3524:

Deified.7520:

I agree, i never wanted dhuumfire. I dont think any necromancer wanted it or was expecting it.

I wanted Burning. Heck, my Necro has been fire themed for ages.
Although I was thinking of an off-hand Torch, not a trait.
For example if the torch could self-inflict Burning you could use it with Well of Power for Aegis.

As for other games with Necros using fire…
Diablo 2 was the first game with a Necromancer that I remember playing.
One of their summons was a Fire Golem.
That Necro was also the reason I eventually found GW1 and then GW2.

I think that Burning on Necro is great in of itself, it just shouldn’t work so well with Terror builds.

It it had been something like “Vampiric Bite inflicts Burning”, or just in a trait position where it can’t be combined with Terror it’d be perfectly fine.

If we had to choose “Use a Terror build OR use a Dhuumfire build” we wouldn’t have everyone running the same build.

yes there was a mission back in GW1 as well with fire golems that came to cantha from the ring of fire , a fiery minion though , is still not the same as the necro causing the burning him/herself , they reanimated corpses that had the property of fire already.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Enundr.9305:

vicious.5683:

Enundr.9305:

thank you Engels……and ill bring this point up…..Burning…?….BURNING?
What part of the aspect of death is ever considered BURNING?!?!?!
We are NECROMANCERS , not ELEMENTALISTS!!!!
WE BRING THE COLD TOUCH OF DEATH IN GRENTGHS NAME!!!! NOT BALTHAZAARS!!!!

In Short , REMOVED DHUUMFIRE , NOONE wanted it , reverse some of the nerfs (aka the terror dmg nerf). We are NECROMANCERS , we bring the cold touch of death , not the hot burning wrath of balthazaar , we reap terror into those that fear death.

;-P

the human gods are dead, Grenth is no more. And they are just human deities, not charr, norn, asura or silvary. Those races necros don’t pray to Grenth and don’t get their powers from that fallen god.

In GW2, necromancers are like no other game/story necromancers. Where are the zombies, skeletons, ghouls? We have just non-humanoid meat and bone parts bound together to create some weak, pathetic and abhorrent critters.

Is natural that necromancers from the present started looking for new sources of power, like the former god Dhuum.

there are no demons being summoned , we are not warlocks , hence no fire , we reanimate the dead (aka NECROMANCER) , not just raise skeletons zombies and ghouls , the only thing remotely close to a demon is the shade , and thats a creature from the underworld , not a demon in of itself. we are still necromancers , we are not warlocks that use fire , or elementalists either.

Necromancers don’t have “death shroud”, or any kind of abilities that draw on their life force, and they don’t have Life Blast. You know who does have powers that draw on their life force to create blast attacks? Warlocks (Eldritch Blast). So by your logic, they need to get rid of Death Shroud as well.

you do know life force is life taken from OTHERS (hence why its generated from attacks and such , similar to a vampirism thing) , warlocks end up sucking their own life to fuel their own spells (replenish man , etc) and demonic energies as well for power , NOT life force. Necromancers reanimate dead , plague bringers , necromancers are about Death , nowhere ever do they use fire , not even NPC necros have ever used it , you will find any refernce to death will involve the cold element , not burning , burning is WARLOCK related , life force can be used by either warlock or necro , though necro is more commonly viewed by it while warlocks use “fel” energy. know the classes from games past my friend ;-) ive always been a huge necro person and nowhere do necros ever do anything to do with fire (beyond lit up candles for rituals and such)

vicious.5683:

Enundr.9305:

thank you Engels……and ill bring this point up…..Burning…?….BURNING?
What part of the aspect of death is ever considered BURNING?!?!?!
We are NECROMANCERS , not ELEMENTALISTS!!!!
WE BRING THE COLD TOUCH OF DEATH IN GRENTGHS NAME!!!! NOT BALTHAZAARS!!!!

In Short , REMOVED DHUUMFIRE , NOONE wanted it , reverse some of the nerfs (aka the terror dmg nerf). We are NECROMANCERS , we bring the cold touch of death , not the hot burning wrath of balthazaar , we reap terror into those that fear death.

;-P

the human gods are dead, Grenth is no more. And they are just human deities, not charr, norn, asura or silvary. Those races necros don’t pray to Grenth and don’t get their powers from that fallen god.

In GW2, necromancers are like no other game/story necromancers. Where are the zombies, skeletons, ghouls? We have just non-humanoid meat and bone parts bound together to create some weak, pathetic and abhorrent critters.

Is natural that necromancers from the present started looking for new sources of power, like the former god Dhuum.

there are no demons being summoned , we are not warlocks , hence no fire , we reanimate the dead (aka NECROMANCER) , not just raise skeletons zombies and ghouls , the only thing remotely close to a demon is the shade , and thats a creature from the underworld , not a demon in of itself. we are still necromancers , we are not warlocks that use fire , or elementalists either.

Edit : also we dont reanimate humans / charrs / sylvari / norn / sentient beings due to that falling under the evil type of necromancer that ends up being shunned by society (aka the ones that work with Zhaitan) our necros reanimate dead , but they also have some morals (guild wars standard) to not reanimate sentient beings (hence why we see devourer , rats , worm , shade(underworld creature) and flesh golem (a bunch of parts from diff creatures)) , if we started reanimating ppl we would be shunned from our homes completely (still a bit off from how a necro should be but still doesnt justify us weilding fire , we are NOT warlocks)

as Afya said , its to keep us quiet , why else isnt there more PERMANENT pve content then? last i heard theres no real plans for an actually expansion (aka pve content) , as well as nothing yet about new landmasses (aka stuff in current map that isnt full blown expansion but opening these areas up even when in game you see the pathways to such areas shut with no subtelty at all in trying) , though its always in the air about added new areas in current map , as far as anything thats been said theres no plans to expand , SS was prob the last one well see for awhile beyond the living story stuff , while slightly entertaining , gets old fast since its burned through in a day or 2 , depending on how much time you spend in the game / how much you want to try to get done knowing the content isnt permanent. The devs need to stop focus on just pvp at this point or this game is going to be a complete lost cause as the ppl that enjoy pve (bigger group then the pvp btw) will move onto the next mmo because of the negligence towards pve to favor pvp , and most of us GW1 players want to see REAL SEPERATION of the 2 like we saw back in GW1 , which might actually help this a bit more. im not holding my breath that well actually see this anymore though , there are other mmos coming out not too far from now that offer good times (or shall depending on your PoV).

Somoe.3621:

Bas.7406:

Roe.3679:

War Mourner.5168:

You do realise most of this thread was from before people discovered that our LF went from 60% to 100/120% right?

Shenanigans. This buff was right in the patch notes as soon as they were released. Everyone just QQed about it before seeing what it meant.

I do feel bad for the PVE Necros who were relying on a sketchy mechanic, but my build got substantially buffed with this patch. I can finally sustain in a fight instead of hoping I kill someone before my life force is gone.

We were well aware of the buff ahead of time. The buff only affects consistent damage applications without burst. With a lack of stability/invuln/block/vigor, or any other way to eat burst it was an effective nerf every time your DS went below 40 percent.

The issue is that players, who call everyone else QQers, are comparing full DS with Spectral armor on against a bunch of Hot join heros who don’t simply knock you down until Spectral armor is gone and then just free kill you. Sure if two guys train on you while you have a full DS with Spectral armor you will laugh at them, but when DS is down, you die against one semi decent player who knows you have limited access. Plus you just stupidly blew your only stun break to simply absorb damage.

So any smart player would simply let you pop it to absorb and then stun you and dance on your humorously badly played grave. Heck, if I was playing a necro against you, I would laugh as you popped Spectral armor than fear you away while it was on and corrupt boon it and kill you.

The change only mitigate consistent non-hammering damage. Any burst damage or control plus damage build will destroy you just the same. The players who don’t realize this haven’t played against anyone with a semblance of skill yet.

You say people that don’t agree with you just resort to calling others QQers but then turn around and basically tell them to L2P?

Nice.

you talk like the ppl that are calling ppl with complaints here QQers arent doing the exact same thing =O

nice ;-P

Kilger.5490:

glorius.1235:

Kilger.5490:

I dont want to sound like Im trolling but I thought we were fine before the patch and now I think we’re OP. But the complaints really confuse me, so maybe theres something I’m not understanding. What ev.

How much do you play WvW?

Thats all I play. I run power spec, which works really well. I’ve played half the classes and none can pressure an enemy zerg like the necro can. Perhaps it just works better for my playstyle than for other people.

you are one of the very few vs the bigger crowd of necros that it works for then XD the majority of other necros (as far as the vocal ones anyway) are finding the class getting destroyed while other classes that need to be toned down , stay as OP as ever….

Morbridae.8607:

Enundr.9305:

thank you Engels……and ill bring this point up…..Burning…?….BURNING?
What part of the aspect of death is ever considered BURNING?!?!?!
We are NECROMANCERS , not ELEMENTALISTS!!!!
WE BRING THE COLD TOUCH OF DEATH IN GRENTGHS NAME!!!! NOT BALTHAZAARS!!!!

In Short , REMOVED DHUUMFIRE , NOONE wanted it , reverse some of the nerfs (aka the terror dmg nerf). We are NECROMANCERS , we bring the cold touch of death , not the hot burning wrath of balthazaar , we reap terror into those that fear death.

;-P

+1

Last time I checked, fire was undead worse enemy. :-s I ask myself if any Dev is playing a necro.

but yes i would say its blatently obvious devs have not actually played a necro , but instead tell us “give it a try” when most of us are complaining AFTER trying it. i just /groan when i see this stuff and pray future mmos learn to not cater to the freaking pvp crowd that is ALWAYS the minority of the mmo crowd that ends up imbalancing the game , UNLESS they can seperate the 2 like GW1 did….obviously we didnt see that here….and its a sad day for those of us who looked forward to this game SOOO much…..

Morbridae.8607:

Enundr.9305:

thank you Engels……and ill bring this point up…..Burning…?….BURNING?
What part of the aspect of death is ever considered BURNING?!?!?!
We are NECROMANCERS , not ELEMENTALISTS!!!!
WE BRING THE COLD TOUCH OF DEATH IN GRENTGHS NAME!!!! NOT BALTHAZAARS!!!!

In Short , REMOVED DHUUMFIRE , NOONE wanted it , reverse some of the nerfs (aka the terror dmg nerf). We are NECROMANCERS , we bring the cold touch of death , not the hot burning wrath of balthazaar , we reap terror into those that fear death.

;-P

+1

Last time I checked, fire was undead worse enemy. :-s I ask myself if any Dev is playing a necro.

well its not necesarily FIRE thats undeads worse enemy (though i wouldnt call it good for them either ;-) ) its usually the holy light (aka monk / paladin type of light that they invoke to BURN the undead with it) thats the undeads worst enemy , still necromancers have NEVER used burning in any game thats ever had them that im aware of , sure there are some concepts for diff types of fire (fell flames from wow , cold fire (not sure where i remember that one from but its more a blue flame thats chilling to the bone but still burns)) still a necros concept is about death , death is NOT associated with flames (flames can kill yes but its not associated the same way with death itself) , death is focused more so along the chilling touch , aka cold , never burning , necros (in regards to human gods) are representing grentghs might , grength is death and frost , Balthazaar is war and flames. so the concept of WHY we were given a burning still eludes me. and its the reason necros got alot of attention and these uneeded nerfs. so much of it not making sense other then having a reason to support the “golden child” classes (aka thieves , mesmers , and warriors i think..?) that go untouched when they need some fixing , like perma stealth backstab thieves that are near death , conditioned out the wazoo , go stealth and back to full health with no conditions on them. and they do this solo , vs 2+ ppl repeatedly.

Lily.1935:

Enundr.9305:

rager.4963:

Enundr.9305:

rager , minion master was one of the core builds ppl LOVED in GW1 , thats what some of us want to see again , but right now thats clearly never going to be the case as all we see is conditions being the only remotely useful (and relatively subpar vs raw dmg) build we have , weve been pidgeon holed into specific builds because of this , which was against the initial beliefs were being said for the game…..how any build could be just as good as another……lol at that XD and yea things need to get fixed or this is done , where the only ppl left is that tPvP that keeps “balancing” the rest of the game / players out. there are other good mmos around the corner , its best to prioritize which group is more favorable to appeal Anet , the minority tPvP or the majority PvE / WvWvW group , make your choice and sleep with it , cause the games future will rely on it……and the tPvP group isnt exactly expanding in size

I played a little bit of guild wars 1. My friend was a healer and I would summon a bunch of minions yelling at him to keep them up..He said it was the worse time he ever had trying to keep them alive the longest he could lmao. I enjoyed watching him do it.

actually there were some good builds where the necro could keep them up him/herslef , though a healer also comes in handy , in prophecies (before faction and the first major necro nerf) you could summon enough minions to solo missions if you did it right , that was prob the most justified nerf they ever recieved , though ill still miss being able to raise an army and destroy my enemies XD

The minion master never lost its value in GW1. It was always useful. And the monk isn’t supposed to heal your minions. That is your job. You are supposed to keep them alive. And in return the monk keeps you alive.

GW2 minions and most other necro builds are complete garbage. And another problem this update made was now Death Magic is even worse to take then before. So we now have 2 trait lines that are extremely bad and low and behold, both of them are our defensive traits. Not saying that death magic was good before the nerf, because it wasn’t.

ah well you misunderstood me , MM was ALWAYS great in GW1 , i was poitning out how it was initially with no minion limit , it was still fun and ALWAYS useful till the very end , just like SS rits (my other fav class) , i wish we could see MM actuallyb e viable for those of us that arent focused on tPvP…..but i guess thats all some ppl keep balancing the game for >.>

best suggestion would be to undo the last patch lol

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Enundr.9305:

actually there were some good builds where the necro could keep them up him/herslef , though a healer also comes in handy , in prophecies (before faction and the first major necro nerf) you could summon enough minions to solo missions if you did it right , that was prob the most justified nerf they ever recieved , though ill still miss being able to raise an army and destroy my enemies XD

I agree. The huge mobs of minions were fun, but ultimate made some PVE missions in GW1 too easy. I was sad when they nerfed it, but it probably was deserved. There were still some necros post-nerf that could maintain decent armies of minions in PvP, and those were nasty opponents.

yep , but since it was in pvp it had its own pvp version of skills , ie diff cast times / CDs in regards to minions , wasnt easy to do but dam those guys were beasts and rightfully so…..nothing remotely compareable to this hollow shell of its former self.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Someone said before GW = Guardian Warrior.

The idea of just messing up the entire necro class for the tPvP thing at Pax is a lousy thing to do. There is also PVE and WvW, but neither was considered. Necros are still struggling to get into groups, and a lot of players only want guardians and warriors. Why? Because necromancers have poor DPS, and rubbish defense…. and then they remove our only defense against spike damage. Why not remove the class from PVE then while you’re at it?

Lets face it. Making the necromancer class focused on attrition is a bad idea for PVE, when you consider PVE discourages condition builds, and encourages DPS. And the fact that bosses all have Defiant means we have no defense what so ever. No wonder the necro is so unpopular in PVE. Same with the ranger by the way. If you only balance the ranger for tPvP, you’re going to have a lot of very disappointed PVE players, who are wondering why everyone but the guardian is getting the short end of the stick.

im pretty sure at this point with all the threads about STOP BALANCING THE GAME FOR TPVP and yet we still see balance being done for TPVP solely , is a pretty big sign there is no more hope for this game , that anyone that doesnt focus on TPvP will be ignored. its about time to move onto a new game ladies and gents , this is a sad truth , but a truth nonetheless. i hope Anet enjoys that small tPvP group they keep catering to as they drive the bigger group onto the next mmo.

rager.4963:

Enundr.9305:

rager , minion master was one of the core builds ppl LOVED in GW1 , thats what some of us want to see again , but right now thats clearly never going to be the case as all we see is conditions being the only remotely useful (and relatively subpar vs raw dmg) build we have , weve been pidgeon holed into specific builds because of this , which was against the initial beliefs were being said for the game…..how any build could be just as good as another……lol at that XD and yea things need to get fixed or this is done , where the only ppl left is that tPvP that keeps “balancing” the rest of the game / players out. there are other good mmos around the corner , its best to prioritize which group is more favorable to appeal Anet , the minority tPvP or the majority PvE / WvWvW group , make your choice and sleep with it , cause the games future will rely on it……and the tPvP group isnt exactly expanding in size

I played a little bit of guild wars 1. My friend was a healer and I would summon a bunch of minions yelling at him to keep them up..He said it was the worse time he ever had trying to keep them alive the longest he could lmao. I enjoyed watching him do it.

actually there were some good builds where the necro could keep them up him/herslef , though a healer also comes in handy , in prophecies (before faction and the first major necro nerf) you could summon enough minions to solo missions if you did it right , that was prob the most justified nerf they ever recieved , though ill still miss being able to raise an army and destroy my enemies XD

rager , minion master was one of the core builds ppl LOVED in GW1 , thats what some of us want to see again , but right now thats clearly never going to be the case as all we see is conditions being the only remotely useful (and relatively subpar vs raw dmg) build we have , weve been pidgeon holed into specific builds because of this , which was against the initial beliefs were being said for the game…..how any build could be just as good as another……lol at that XD and yea things need to get fixed or this is done , where the only ppl left is that tPvP that keeps “balancing” the rest of the game / players out. there are other good mmos around the corner , its best to prioritize which group is more favorable to appeal Anet , the minority tPvP or the majority PvE / WvWvW group , make your choice and sleep with it , cause the games future will rely on it……and the tPvP group isnt exactly expanding in size

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

The more I think about this, the more and more it’s appearing that this nerf was a knee-jerk reaction to prevent their golden child classes from being very publicly and shamelessly roflstomped by necros in the upcoming PAX tournaments. I can’t blame them for this; business is business. They need to maintain the appearance (illusion?) that their professions and game as a whole are reasonably balanced.

Of course, that’s not the necro community’s fault. ArenaNet painted themselves into that corner with the ill-conceived Dhuumfire addition. Unfortunately, it’s the necro community that will now pay the price – at least in the short-term – through hastily cobbled together nerfs designed to “balance” tPvP for PAX.

The hope is – once PAX is over – they will return to a more reasoned and thoroughly tested balancing. The even greater hope is they will finally come to the realization that this game is not now nor will ever be a viable eSport. Then we can finally end the lunacy of balancing 99% of the game around the needs of 1% of the population (or whatever statistically insignificant percentage of the GW2 population is represented by the tPvP-ers).

ArenaNet, your profits are in your gemstore and future expansions – if any – and catering to the vast hordes of players who play PvE/WvWvW; not the tiny percentage that play tPvP. Either balance around the majority or split the skills between the different game modes as was done in GW1. But for the love of the five gods, stop balancing the game around the vocal minority that is tPvP.

thats a sad reason to do the nerf, for the tPvP at pax? lol? i hope someone brings this up at Pax then ….cause id love to see the reactions there. it would quite frankly expose how poor of a choice this was , cause i cant see that many on the necro (forum wise that is) community that even thinks this patch was REMOTELY good. id like to see skills back how they were in original GW , pvp seperate from pve…..but at this point i see no hope in that happening or good decisions made in balancing necros or any other class that isnt one of those “golden child” classes.

rager.4963:

For me it says a lot about a company that leaves classes with skills that don’t work or just plain not fun.

Pets, and life steal reworked looks like it is needed.

Don’t get me wrong I don’t mind esports, but if esports ruins the fun of the game. That is when I do mind.

WVW is kinda what my friends and I played GW2 for. It gave us that DAOC feeling that we so craved. Something warhammer online was suppose to give and fail to do.

I am going with the safe bet and playing a mes right now, however…I would drop it in a heart beat for a necromancer that is fun and works how it is being sold.

me too…….we wont see it though…..i miss my GW1 MM…..XD
Right now its play thief / war / gaurdian or go home mostly (as far as anything outside SPvP , i really dont care for SPvP , no interest in it at all and im fearing its destroying other parts of the game because of the few that do)
I see thieves still havent been touched (ie stealth spam , backstab builds that can go stealth when fully lit up with conditions and near death , come out full health and no conditions , REPEATEDLY , while hitting you like a truck) im saddened at the way this game is heading , there will be other games though……and if things dont get handled here properly , itll lose whats left of anyone that loves playing something other then one of the classes that dont get touched but need a good touchup to those MMOs (im sure you can guess atleast ONE of those upcoming ones)

PMilkos.9103:

Enundr.9305:

PMilkos.9103:

Some of you people here have to be smoking some pretty good stuff… They doubled our deathshroud health and you call that a nerf because apparently 50k+ hp on a heavy healing class is not enough these days…

Anyway, necromancers are fine, and in fact very powerful as long as you know how to build them. If you are building them glass cannon and then complaining that you’re too weak then it’s your fault for making a stupid build – you took the one class with no active survivability mechanics and no burst and went all-out offence on it, what exactly where you epecting. And max condition caps is a problem common to ALL condition builds of ALL classes – condition elementalists, rangers etc are in the same boat and “suck” just as much in that regard.

What can necromancers do better than any other class? AoE. AoE anything – conditions, damage, heals, you name it, we can do it (if we spec into it). We can dive head-first into a pack of mobs that would shred anyone else to pieces and kill them all without breaking a sweat. You just have to understand that the full offensive build you see on warriors and thieves simply won’t cut it here.

Just don’t run minions. They are bad. Just… bad. Every single one of them. They’re only passable until you get enough levels and skill points for a proper set of skills.

ok so just so were clear , we have NO BURST , and NO ACTIVE SURVIVABILITY MECHANIC that other classes tend to have ALOT of and still rip us to shreds (yes even those of us that ARENT GLASS CANNONS) and its our fault? sounds legit. and conditions cap , yet we have no burst or any REAL dmg beyond conditions , still sounds legit bro.

Just so that we’re clear, I’m talking about PVE – I don’t give a rat’s kitten about PVP.

Regardless, necromancers may not have any fancy means of survivability, but what they do have is the ability of being an absolute immovable object. We have the highest health, along with warriors. We also have very powerful heals, unlike warriors. Once our heal is down, we can use DS. Once DS is down, our heal is back up. After that, we have Lich form/Plague form. And once that is down, our heal AND DS are back up.

I don’t know what exactly it is you’re facing, but it should not be able to just shred through 60k total health + heals…

And if you say we have no real damage outside conditions then you have not ever tried stacking a few wells on top of DS 5 and 4. Because stuff tends to evaporate…

havent been in a dungeon lately , but do please go take that strategy to Lupi , im sure hell evaporate ;-)

renmei , burning makes absolutely no sense for a necro to have. no necro even needs it (assuming people know how a necro is supposed to generally be themed around in ANY game) , we need burning removed , minions BUFFED to actually be useful. but we wont see any of this , well still be OP again (while thieves are stealth spam / backstab insane dmg) and just get whacked with the nerf bat.

PMilkos.9103:

Some of you people here have to be smoking some pretty good stuff… They doubled our deathshroud health and you call that a nerf because apparently 50k+ hp on a heavy healing class is not enough these days…

Anyway, necromancers are fine, and in fact very powerful as long as you know how to build them. If you are building them glass cannon and then complaining that you’re too weak then it’s your fault for making a stupid build – you took the one class with no active survivability mechanics and no burst and went all-out offence on it, what exactly where you epecting. And max condition caps is a problem common to ALL condition builds of ALL classes – condition elementalists, rangers etc are in the same boat and “suck” just as much in that regard.

What can necromancers do better than any other class? AoE. AoE anything – conditions, damage, heals, you name it, we can do it (if we spec into it). We can dive head-first into a pack of mobs that would shred anyone else to pieces and kill them all without breaking a sweat. You just have to understand that the full offensive build you see on warriors and thieves simply won’t cut it here.

Just don’t run minions. They are bad. Just… bad. Every single one of them. They’re only passable until you get enough levels and skill points for a proper set of skills.

ok so just so were clear , we have NO BURST , and NO ACTIVE SURVIVABILITY MECHANIC that other classes tend to have ALOT of and still rip us to shreds (yes even those of us that ARENT GLASS CANNONS) and its our fault? sounds legit. and conditions cap , yet we have no burst or any REAL dmg beyond conditions , still sounds legit bro.

renmei , most wvw zergs have LOTS of condition removal (aka gaurdians) , so condionmancers are only a slight annoyance , but an annoyance nonetheless. and your right , with the insane burst dps a thief can dish out , its amazing that some of this stuff is even happening and trying to call it “balanced”

also dont expect thieves to ever recieve a nerf , its been made clear at this point that wont ever happen , its been the most complained about class because of stealth abuse and we see NOTHING for it. i see catering to the thief community and its sad. at this rate the game will be run into the ground (bad thing too for ppl that have an eye on a certain mmo thats roughly “arround the corner”).

thank you Engels……and ill bring this point up…..Burning…?….BURNING?
What part of the aspect of death is ever considered BURNING?!?!?!
We are NECROMANCERS , not ELEMENTALISTS!!!!
WE BRING THE COLD TOUCH OF DEATH IN GRENTGHS NAME!!!! NOT BALTHAZAARS!!!!

In Short , REMOVED DHUUMFIRE , NOONE wanted it , reverse some of the nerfs (aka the terror dmg nerf). We are NECROMANCERS , we bring the cold touch of death , not the hot burning wrath of balthazaar , we reap terror into those that fear death.

;-P

Softspoken.2410:

Enundr.9305:

Softspoken.2410:

Enundr.9305:

Softspoken.2410:

rager.4963:

Took a break since release, came back to see what is up. Was in the mood for a necro. Use to love them in EQ and other games.. Come to the forum to check out pet builds and stuff.

Holy kittens batman. The aura in this forum makes me want to cry. Is necromacers really that bad?

How bad are pets? I mean I see people saying they are bugged, but they got to be useful for something right? I don’t see them leaving them worthless for this long.

In the forum’s defense, the most recent patch had a few nerfs in it that were pretty unexpected, so there’s a lot of recent upheaval.

In my opinion, the only major bug with minions right now is that Flesh Golem despawns if it enters deep water. They’ve actually gotten downright snappy in their response times with recent updates: I urge you to try them yourself and see how well they do or don’t react to your commands.

its not necesarily a bug , due to that the water skill set doesnt allow flesh golem to live , only got plague form in underwater combat (aka deep water) , so the flesh golem cant chase anything underwater.

It sort of is? All other minions, regardless of if they are equipped on the underwater bar, are capable of crossing water as long as the necromancer is not submerged. They don’t do anything once they’re in there, to my knowledge, but they don’t self-despawn. Flesh Golem can actually run itself into deep water without the necromancer even entering swim mode, and sacrifice itself for no apparent reason.

To be clear, it isn’t about actively using Flesh Golem underwater, since that’s clearly marked by the game as impossible. It’s the way a deep enough puddle to trigger ‘swimming’ mode is a sort of landmine that will instantly kill Flesh Golem, even if nobody else in the fight is underwater.

all other minions are able to be used under water normally…..as in their skills can be equipped in the utility slots…..the flesh golem cannot be equipped in the underwater elite skill slot XD

Yeah, I don’t think you’re reading what I’m saying. It shouldn’t matter if the flesh golem can be equipped underwater, since it’s not about using it underwater, but about making it go across / over water.

you had said deep water , as in water you can submerge in? if its trying to go across water deep enough that you can go into swim mode , it gets dismissed due to that Fleshy isnt an underwater capable minion , even if your on land , he got sent into the water (usually commanded to charge?)

At most necros can apply the MOST TYPES of conditions , while focusing on bleed and poison , more then one class , and of course Fear , one of the necros prime conditions (which got nerfed insteado f the uneeded Dhuumfire -_- ) , they have virtually no strong direct damage while focusing on conditions , but as i said if there is more then 1 condition spammer, necro starts being useless. and as far as Dungeons , MM is going to fall HORRIBLY and still be useless , now with DS getting a nerf / buff (depending on how you look at it) our one major survival skill is now weaker and cant save us from a bosses OMGWTFBBQSAUCE instant kill / down attack , where as other classes can keep up vigor , block , inv , etc . aka have way more survivability skills the necro can ever throw out…..just lol…..im ashamed to even be a necro after this patch……

Softspoken.2410:

Enundr.9305:

Softspoken.2410:

rager.4963:

Took a break since release, came back to see what is up. Was in the mood for a necro. Use to love them in EQ and other games.. Come to the forum to check out pet builds and stuff.

Holy kittens batman. The aura in this forum makes me want to cry. Is necromacers really that bad?

How bad are pets? I mean I see people saying they are bugged, but they got to be useful for something right? I don’t see them leaving them worthless for this long.

In the forum’s defense, the most recent patch had a few nerfs in it that were pretty unexpected, so there’s a lot of recent upheaval.

In my opinion, the only major bug with minions right now is that Flesh Golem despawns if it enters deep water. They’ve actually gotten downright snappy in their response times with recent updates: I urge you to try them yourself and see how well they do or don’t react to your commands.

its not necesarily a bug , due to that the water skill set doesnt allow flesh golem to live , only got plague form in underwater combat (aka deep water) , so the flesh golem cant chase anything underwater.

It sort of is? All other minions, regardless of if they are equipped on the underwater bar, are capable of crossing water as long as the necromancer is not submerged. They don’t do anything once they’re in there, to my knowledge, but they don’t self-despawn. Flesh Golem can actually run itself into deep water without the necromancer even entering swim mode, and sacrifice itself for no apparent reason.

To be clear, it isn’t about actively using Flesh Golem underwater, since that’s clearly marked by the game as impossible. It’s the way a deep enough puddle to trigger ‘swimming’ mode is a sort of landmine that will instantly kill Flesh Golem, even if nobody else in the fight is underwater.

all other minions are able to be used under water normally…..as in their skills can be equipped in the utility slots…..the flesh golem cannot be equipped in the underwater elite skill slot XD

Pelopidas.2140:

stun breakers or fear builds can kill perma stealth thieves, ok not easy on 1v1 but its the point of high the high burst class to be good in 1v1..wells and immob work good on them too:)

on topic: Dont hear the whiners, necro has very nice dps either zerk or condi or hybrid, has some very fun skills, nice aoe and can be extremely fun to play.
It;s kinda always this aura in class forums, people love talking how much anet sucks:))

fear builds have slightly been nerfed with this patch……lol and a thief was taking 2 on (me being the condition necro bleeding the guy to death tagged alongside with a gaurdian next to me) , the little sob was able to spam stealth and get back to full health , no conditions left. guy was near dead too back out of stealth with FULL health. wells dont seem to do too much better , the guy could drop in on marks too and not appear / trigger the marks till after hes left me at half health (rabid gear set with traited Blood / Death Magic btw so im not a super squishy target)

Softspoken.2410:

rager.4963:

Took a break since release, came back to see what is up. Was in the mood for a necro. Use to love them in EQ and other games.. Come to the forum to check out pet builds and stuff.

Holy kittens batman. The aura in this forum makes me want to cry. Is necromacers really that bad?

How bad are pets? I mean I see people saying they are bugged, but they got to be useful for something right? I don’t see them leaving them worthless for this long.

In the forum’s defense, the most recent patch had a few nerfs in it that were pretty unexpected, so there’s a lot of recent upheaval.

In my opinion, the only major bug with minions right now is that Flesh Golem despawns if it enters deep water. They’ve actually gotten downright snappy in their response times with recent updates: I urge you to try them yourself and see how well they do or don’t react to your commands.

its not necesarily a bug , due to that the water skill set doesnt allow flesh golem to live , only got plague form in underwater combat (aka deep water) , so the flesh golem cant chase anything underwater.

Amun Ra.6435:

I think they may might be actually trying to discourage necros from entering the tournament…

i could believe that……and promoting perma stealth / back stab thieves…..lol……when you can see one near death and a stack of bleeds go stealth and come out at full health…..REPEATEDLY……yea…..

Navzar.2938:

Enundr.9305:

say that vs a group of condition cleansers MightyAltroll…..lol have i ever seen a condition necro ever feel so useless…..and like i said , a perma stealth thief does insane burst dmg , and can go stealth and come out full health……yea …….sry but conditions are nothing if they cant actually kill , and these thieves prove it every day , and dont even get viewed as remotely OP

What, a group of people specialized in condition cleansing can own your condition only builds? So unfair!

show me a group specialized in killing perma stealth thieves…..ive seen one take 2 of us on easily. and lol you just made me think of this one WvW battle , on defense at bay and there was an entire wall of gaurdians charging us…..o god the condition cleansing……so….flipping….USLESS to be a necro that day XD

vicious.5683:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

…(we) are currently the strongest condition class in the game.

as it was meant to be since the beginning of times.

necros are average/bad in other builds

and thats the one issue in of itself , more then 1 condition spammer = pointless , since bleeds cap at 25 and a single necro can maintain a stack of 20 on average , and usually someone else has a bleed , meaning more then 1 of that class is completely pointless if all theyre meant to do is spam conditions.

say that vs a group of condition cleansers MightyAltroll…..lol have i ever seen a condition necro ever feel so useless…..and like i said , a perma stealth thief does insane burst dmg , and can go stealth and come out full health……yea …….sry but conditions are nothing if they cant actually kill , and these thieves prove it every day , and dont even get viewed as remotely OP

and that aura yo ufeel? is the aura of ppl who are tired of every class save for a few like thief , that get nerfed being as OP , yet youll see those other classes doing way more amazing feats (perma stealth thief / backstab thief ) that you can light up with nearly every condition in the game , near death , they go stealth and come out full health. that is the aura you feel , that all these other classes get needlesly nerfed while others that NEED a nerf , dont get touched at all.

the minions are generally useless , save for Flesh Golem Elite skill , none of them feel remotely viable , especially in dungeons….which makes me weep…..since ive always loved pet classes and i played MM in GW1 , do not go for a MM build , or rely on pets outside of flesh golem , thats all i can really say……