Guild Wars 2

Lightsbane.9012:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

They can’t even balance what they already have, and they want to add more to it.

even so, i think it’s needed. other games will be coming out that offer complete customization.

adding more weapons that chances are , arent going to be anymore balanced then what we see now wont help with that fact , something more solid like seperation of pve and pvp like what we saw in GW1 would def be a big step forward , in all likeliness giving some relief to the diff teams (pvp and pve teams working on balancing and stuff).

Bright , thats nice and all but i had a thief tonight just 1 shot my DS (30 spite , 10 blood , 30 (power tree) , so around 21k with Berserker gear and some Knights) , literally ONE SHOT the deathshroud and the 2nd hit dropped me to downed state , not sure how that happenes but if im not mistaken DS is supposed to have close to your own health right? so that thief just did 21k give or take dmg in 1 shot? sorta wtf right? sob didnt waste time going stealth again , pops DS one hit , pops my health in another hit. was a first for me so im sorta dumbfounded cause ive run berserkers in wvw before , even ran throug hthe middle of a zerg and survived as they start focus firing me down.

Edit : first attack was from stealth , 4 of us were chasing down 2 other thieves.

Imperatora.7654:

just wanted to give a little “inside” info.

I’m a game developer, I make MMOs for a living (no, I will not tell you where I work as discussing that could get me fired until the game is publicly announced).

“Whining” never gets things nerfed, math does. Now, a lot of people going off about something on the forums WILL get that thing looked at, but without math to back it up it will not be touched. I can’t speak to what aNet does, but at my company everything like a trait has a stat budget that we try to use to keep things level. Things like range, trigger conditions, effect, stackability etc all build up to give a “trait” a score.

If the score is too high, it gets adjusted.

that said, there ARE ways to improve your chances of having your balance requests heard and acted on:

1) Math. Saying “X is op/up!” is next to worthless feedback. Saying “X is op/up by this amount and here is the math proving it:” is far better

2) Include a test case. “X class did Y damage! NERF!” again, useless. Listing the exact conditions (buffs/debuffs, gear, full stats if possible, abilities) that the dev can use to recreate exactly what you saw is VASTLY more likely to get things addressed

3) Videos/screenshots are nice, but do not replace #1 or #2.

cant tell what gear the enemy is using last time i checked? dont know all the enemies abilities beyond the weapons they wield , in this game , videos are generally the basic thing you can really do , can screenshot the amount of dmg they did i guess but then thats the same thing as #3 , alot of things your saying here are nice in theory if the game supports that type of interface , we do not here . all i can say is with 30 in spite tree for necro (bigger life pool) 21k health , 100% full life pool when activating Deathshroud and a thief ONE SHOTS it , is enough to gaurentee that needs to be looked at. as in ONE ATTACK did 100% LF dmg , roughyl a 2nd healthbar (if im not mistaken its pretty close to your health? so then were looking at a single attack doing close to 21k dmg) , ive seen plenty to warrant “adjustments” for these classes and no action has been taken for them , they have been in that state since beta / launch and ppl have complained about it since then , as well as stealth not breaking upon recieving dmg as youve left the target lit up with conditions (aka golden rule for rogue types in mmos that use full blown stealth , you take dmg you lose your stealth , this applies with dots as well) yet only other classes recieve these weird nonsense nerfs when you have these other classes that are running circles around the classes getting nerfed already , NOT GETTING TOUCHED.

emon.1863:

Zenith.7301:

emon.1863:

Necro is still very good (i am not saing it is op!) in both specs : terror and power.
Yes only “block” is gone, but overall DS is improved and can take more dmg then ever.

Power necro is terrible.

Did you see how quickly rabid amulet necros were dying in tournaments? Imagine a valk or berserker amulet power necro going into the middle of a team fight and see how long he lasts with s/d thieves around.

Did you even try it?
Yes, S/D thief are painfull to necros, but they are also easy to kill.
Since atm DS is working much better and it is easy to maintain 70-100% of it most of the game, thieves are going down in 3-4 hits.

id like to see this , i just saw 4 of us trying to take down 2 of these thieves , they have an ungodly amount of survivability with the stealth spam and hit and run tactics (and hit like a truck (wvw viewpoint mind you)) , because i was following others around rather then solo i ran a 30/0/0/10/30 berserker build knowing i wouldnt last too long (even through i could run through a group of other class types that try to focus me down and just barely make it past them into a tower). These thieves were able to take so much punishment , go back to full health repeatedly , and as we were chasing them one comes out of stealth and 1 shots my DS (100% LF) and 2nd shot downs me. even in berserker that seems a tad overpowered , ive never seen conditions take down a berserker build that fast (yes ive seen ppl running around with berserker builds). even as a power necro those thieves take ALOT of punishment , good survivability , and heavy dmg , DS is now paper thin (as that thief proved right there when he 1 shot the thing with 30 spite)

Now heres where i raise a question to you Allie , if theres a pvp team and a pve team working on stuff , then why dont we see that seperation of the 2 like we saw in GW1 (ignoring the “new / diff game” response) ? it would save alot of grief for both teams that do any of the balancing for their respective departments , players also want this done as well , so why isnt it done beyond “diff/new game” ? i daresay its not impossible as when you enter the pvp area of the game you get a diff trait set to mess around with , reset , change etc nonstop. in turn why do we not have the seperation of the 2 then if when we go to the mists pvp area we get a diff trait set to work with?

Edit : You can ask around the player base , IN GAME not on forums (though iwouldnt disregard their responses either) , none of them will really agree that the answer for not having the seperation of the 2 being “diff/new game” is ever going to be a viable response , infact its a system most mmos that have pvp options SHOULD be doing , pvp players destroy / ruin pve , and vice versa , its a never ending conflict between the 2 , ive stated how another game (will avoid the name to save any trouble) was doing balancing based on pvp (even more so they had diff devs designated to diff class archetypes) , balancing also being done to 1 class by the devs of the other classes , to the points where 1) the mage STRUGGLED to be as good in the dps charts as the worst rogues / warriors , and the cleric (healer specs) turned into god mode in pvp. In that example you saw mages being nerfed due to pvp complaints and end up being USELESS in pve , and then you saw clerics (healer types ) getting so good to handle raids easier that they also went into the god mode point in pvp.
In short , the seperation of the 2 systems is a GREAT IDEA for ANY GAME.

Banjal.7328:

Using Full Zerker gear will get you 2 shotted no matter what class you are.

by thieves yes , by a big group of non thieves? no lol , i can manage to get past all them , if hurting…..lol

Blaine Tog.8304:

What level are you? Don’t listen to anyone who tells you thieves are hard to beat; besting them requires you to know the matchup but once you do, you should be able to either kill or chase away anyone but a thief who is much better at Thief than you are at Necro. If you’re sub-level-80, though, you should really avoid getting into duels, especially with glass builds.

hey blaine , tell that to the thief that just 2 shot me (build is 30/0/0/10/30 100% LF pool) , 1st shot from stealth destroyed my DS , 2nd shot dropped me to my knees (aka downed) get over yourself if you think thieves are nowehre near OP as hell.

ryokoalways.3450:

Of course he bypasses the marks. You don’t drop marks pre-emptively against a stealth thief. He can just dodge roll through them to nullify them. You need to save them for when revealed is active, and force him to burn his utilities.

And I didn’t say spam fear. Having a lot of fear doesn’t mean you spam them. With condi burst you can down a thief in the 3 seconds of reveal that he is vulnerable in easily. This means his only mechanism of defense is his stun breaker (most likely shadow step). Once that’s gone, if the thief has reveal, it’s a death sentence.

And you don’t need greater marks anymore. It’s not a requirement on staff at the moment.

he doesnt dodge roll through them , theyre literally still on the ground when he starts wailing on me , im not that blind to have made a post and not noticed something like that , and now after doing wvw with a 30/0/0/10/30 build at 100% LF a thief just 2 shot me (1 shot took out DS in 1 hit from stealth , other just dropped me on my knees to downed state) , yea total balance here XD

your right , a split is necesary and ive suggested it , but its already been said in another post here that they will NOT be doing this , though i ask ppl if they think it would be good , and most of them WISH for the same system we had in GW1……<shrugs> , quoted the response i was given as well and you could almost feel the jaw drop in their reactions to reading what was said after suggesting the pvp / pve split. oh well , dont expecti t to happen basically , ppl start noticing this will never work cause its all balanced on pvp and nothing for pve , i see less ppl on everyday on friendslist and guild roster…..=\

Grandmaster Lee.9568:

Hey I was looking for help in a Deathshroud / Spectral build in WvW. Would probably use for small battles. I was thinking either 30/10/0/0/30 and go full Berserkers OR Valkyrie armour and go 20/20/0/0/30. I would be using mostly spectral skills. I need help deciding also if I should go Staff & Dagger/Warhorn or Staff & Axe/Focus or even Dagger/Warhorn and Axe/focus. I want to know first off if this is even viable. Any help would be appreciated!

careful with that type of build , ive got 30/0/0/10/30 , got quite literlly 2 shot by a thief (from 100% LF pool DS , literallly 1 shot that) , only saw him do 2 attacks , 1st was from stealth which destroyed the DS in 1 shot , the other just flatout took me out before i could react. DEF DO NOT USE BERSERKS cause thats what i was running gearwise as well , so yea….lol so great how a 2nd healthbar works in defense XD

ryokoalways.3450:

Thieves do not have enough stun breakers to fight off all the fears.

Once you force their stun breaker and close on their strike point (so they can’t shadow return to generate the necessary distance), it’s pretty much over.

Now with the significantly tankier DS, it’s also much easier because necro should easily be able to draw the fight out to well over 20 seconds, guarantee at least 2+ chances at landing doom. You may miss one doom, but you should never miss more than one.

1v1 I don’t feel any particular pressure from any thief build at the moment. Condi cleanse is largely ineffectual because, as the name suggests, it’s condi “burst”. You just make the thf explode in 2-3 seconds. The only time you would lose is if your opponent is much better than you.

now here is something i bring up to “fear them” strategy , in WvW there was 2 of us trying to take this thief down , when this thief was stealth spamming i had us surrounded by staff marks (ie he wants to touch us , hes going to get nuked from marks) , this thief BYPASSED the marks , running through them and not getting feared and everything while managing to drop me to half health (pre DS nerf) , so there is ONE of our fears ignored (and spectral wall fear = lol on trying to rely on that against anyone that actually pays attention? XD ) so somehow they found a way for marks to not even touch them at all , negating ONE of our easy access fears (next to DS fear) , sorta makes it hard to fear spam them then if this is the case (yes i had greater marks equipped too)

Afya.5842:

It’s a really shame we have to rely on food to complete a dungeon……

that whole patch brought shame to necros in pve lol your LF pool drains just as fast as ever , and now we dont have that big dmg absorb feature (that nearly every other class has with enough vigor , blocks , etc) necro got shafted hard all for the sake of pvp….lol dont you love balanced being done for pve directly from pvp view only? XD

Kratos , you should learn yourself , thieves have always been complained about being ridiculous with stealth spam since day 1 , theres a reason for this. as far as this game applies it stealth IS godmode (in pvp situations anyway) , dmg doesnt break it , they usually come out of stealth at full health , all conditions removed , and they hit pretty hard. lovely how your post is all L2P (aka have no idea on the actual topic here , hence resorting to that without any details)

spoj.9672:

I tanked a jade maw laser with 100% lifeforce the other day. It only took me down to 30% lifeforce. Not sure why jade maws attack is so weak rofl.

Was in full beserker gear and only 15 points in soul reaping.

care to upload a video of this ? ;-)

Targuil.3741:

If you are powermancer, just generate enough LF to absorb the damage, you should be able to generate quite a bit in few rotations.

If you are conditionmancer, may the god have mercy on your soul for alpha will not.

and everything about that sounds legit right? about being forced to spec in a certain wait to even function in a dungeon? lol…..

Charak.9761:

JonathanSharp.7094:

with a major Pax tournament right around the corner.

Watch your PAX tourny have no viable team other than guard/mes/war

wont be surprised , though i dont particularly waste my time checking this stuff out at PAX , as ive said in other posts , i dont care for pvp , i like WvW a bit , in small doses , but not flatout regular pvp (ie spvp or tpvp).

And thats a fair point about the dhuumfire + terror thing , i would suggest put them both in grandmaster spite so their dmg is a you pick one or the other , and at this point im not exactly afraid of a ban , a gaurentee its time to move onto the next game knowing that all of us that are here are complaining about the same thing and then resort to “silence” the ppl complaining (not a new tactic as some mmo devs have resorted to it , and ppl laughed when it happened cause their games DIED going to the desperate change from P2P and F2P model (not COMPLETELY F2P like GW2 is mind you) , if alot of ppl have been complaining about a subject , then you know somethings wrong and needs to be looked at , if instead the company chooses to ban the ones complaining rather then looking then they let their friends know that are in the game to stop playing , in turn knowing nothings going to get fixed , rather swept under the rug tactics instead.

Back to the topic though , yea dhuumfire + terror in one grand master trait so you cant have both doing the insanity that got us here would be a good thing , i still dont see a necro ever using fire lorewise (this game and others , as ive pointed out before the only time youve ever seen a necro “wielding” flame was with the fire golems in GW1 , even then that wasnt the necro wielding fire magic , but instead reanimating creatures that were “fire touched” for lack of better words , lore wise theres never been anything for necros wielding flames , torch could be the one exception due to its not really a “weapon” but more of a ritual situation type of item , and thats why it could work better then the logic for dhuumfire (where dhuumfire shows more towards wielding fire magic like an ele). id trade the dhuumfire for the torch anyday , especially as it is now.
And with the DS thing , ive tested it in pve (20 DM , 20 Spite , 30 Curses) , no spectral armor , BiP , signet with power passive / mass condition spam on use , epidemic , flesh golem and consume conditions , rabid gear all around (gee guess what type of necro i am ;-) ). this was tested in Hirathi Hinterlands on a group event (duo’ed with a thief) , i got downed SO much cause DS was getting torn to pieces , showing no signs that we werent still taking double dmg (aka DS LF pool is going down per hit the same amount as before) , running out of energy to dodge , while the thief stayed up for quite a while , downed 2 or 3 times while i got downed to the point of death on down. there was enough testing the DS there to show to me that it wasnt improved at all , still taking as much dmg as before , and now without that extra absorption we had for pve purposes. the only reason ppl think DS is taking so much more dmg now then before , is ppl are using spectral armor in combination with DS , in turn saying you want to survive ? then your only choice is spectral armor , as in pvp you see ALOT of condition cleansing , especially in WvW , so trying to rely on weakness to act as a defense turns up as null.

and i went and tested this in a group even (duo’ed with a thief) in hirathi hinterlands , champ mob , it drains just as much per hit as it was before , like i said 20 DM , 20 spite , 30 curses , no spectral armor since i dont want to be FORCED into bringing a skill like that and ahve to combine it with a class mechanic to survive when other classes have way more options (condition mancer if you didnt tell by my build) , BiP , (signet with passive power and multi conditions on use , sry forgot name) , flesh golem , and epidemic (and consume conditions for heal) . running rabbid gear , S+D / Staff. i got torn to shreds trying to avoid attacks and using DS defensively when he started focusing me down , the thief outlasted me in surviving , a THIEF who DOESNT HAVE a “2nd healthbar” that made necros the target of part of our nerfs.

Skyro.3108:

Enundr.9305:

Skyro.3108:

There have been a lot of subtle Necro changes that have flown under the radar amidist all the Dhuumfire rage. For example:

-Barbed Precision was buffed from 1s base duration to what I believe is now 2s (haven’t tested it specifically but it’s definitely noticeably longer)
-LF drains MUCH slower due to damage now. Again I haven’t tested it thoroughly, but that’s mainly because I’ve put GW2 on the side burner for now as I’ve been getting into dota 2 but again it is quite noticeable.
-The projectile speed on Staff auto-attack and Dark Pact are MUCH faster. This was a huge quality-of-life complaint from Necros and I’m glad ANet finally changed this.
-Spectral Armor I felt overall was buffed, however Spectral Walk was nerfed, but counterbalanced somewhat by LF now being tankier point-for-point.
-You forgot about Tainted Shackles which is pretty good :P
-Longer duration on Poison from #3 chain on Scepter.

And those are just off the top of my head. There’s no doubt in my mind Necros are stronger now than they were pre-patch, and by quite a large margin.

it drains slower if your not taking hits yes , but your still taking just as much damage (and now dont have that shield against bosses in pve , aka your biggest and practically only form of defense in pve , all for the sake of pvp , thank you pvp crowd for screwing the pve crowd AGAIN)

I meant that it drains slower per hit, meaning each % of LF absorbs more raw damage now than before. I believe the LF degeneration of 4%/sec is still the same.

Yeah I can see how losing the ability to absorb a big hit and have it not spill over to hp is pretty big in PvE, although PvE seems ridiculously easy in this game except I suppose if you get into the higher end of fractals, is that what you’re talking about?

fractals and any boss fights that you dont exploit to win ;-) necros defenses are near to null in pve boss fights (as ive said before weakness is almost next to not as useful on bosses , and DS not being able to absorb those big hits now really hurts the need for necros in pve outright)

Cogbyrn.7283:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Benji.9203:

Elixirs are not the equivalent of minions. I think you have your eye on turrets.

On reading this, I realized that I haven’t slotted a minion skill since last October. Are the melee minions bothering to attack consistently now? Because this is what I remember…

My minions attack consistently in PvE.

they do bug out on occasion and just stand there going “kitten kitten kitten ” all day long , but not as frequently now , still useless in dungeons though pretty much only really valid in open world pve , occasionally in solo roaming in wvw , and very rarely in spvp

Skyro.3108:

There have been a lot of subtle Necro changes that have flown under the radar amidist all the Dhuumfire rage. For example:

-Barbed Precision was buffed from 1s base duration to what I believe is now 2s (haven’t tested it specifically but it’s definitely noticeably longer)
-LF drains MUCH slower due to damage now. Again I haven’t tested it thoroughly, but that’s mainly because I’ve put GW2 on the side burner for now as I’ve been getting into dota 2 but again it is quite noticeable.
-The projectile speed on Staff auto-attack and Dark Pact are MUCH faster. This was a huge quality-of-life complaint from Necros and I’m glad ANet finally changed this.
-Spectral Armor I felt overall was buffed, however Spectral Walk was nerfed, but counterbalanced somewhat by LF now being tankier point-for-point.
-You forgot about Tainted Shackles which is pretty good :P
-Longer duration on Poison from #3 chain on Scepter.

And those are just off the top of my head. There’s no doubt in my mind Necros are stronger now than they were pre-patch, and by quite a large margin.

it drains slower if your not taking hits yes , but your still taking just as much damage (and now dont have that shield against bosses in pve , aka your biggest and practically only form of defense in pve , all for the sake of pvp , thank you pvp crowd for screwing the pve crowd AGAIN)

AKA they said you were taking more dmg due to some bug before , but you see it gets drained JUST AS FAST as before even in 20 spite (i have quite literally seen NO DIFFERENCE when i tested it (even if not 30 it still should have been something more noticeable , only thing i noticed was i die just as fast while trying to avoid attacks and play defensively with DS) the only way you mitigate dmg more now is with Spectral Armor (aka FORCED UTILITY if you dont want to die , so our build diversity shrinks due to this poor design aimed for pvp purposes)

Skyro.3108:

I don’t know how anyone in their right mind can think Necros are weaker now than they were pre-buffs, unless I’m misunderstanding the OP. Most knowledgeable Necros knew they were pretty close to be pretty balanced pre-buffs from a tPvP-perspective.

yes but alot of us are complaining about a PvE perspective , not pvp , the reason pve’ers are here complaining is because theyre only listening to the pvp section , its been said a couple of times here and other spots on the pvp forums , we are incredibly weak in pve , more specifically in dungeons , more so cause our real defense is DS , but now it doesnt absorb the big hits , and our other form of defense is weakness and such , ever see how little that does for bosses and other mobs in dungeons in general? we are the WEAKEST in pve (not paying attention to engineers , havent really played mine in forever) , the only class that doesnt bring stuff to the group (pve wise) is thieves (no real buffs and such , just RAW DMG that can outshine a condition necro). and even in pvp even below average thieves can abuse the stealth / backstab spam , going into stealth at below 20% health (give or take) , stacked with conditions (20 bleeds , poison ) and come out at FULL health , REPEATEDLY , all while hitting like truck in raw straight up dmg. guess how many condition cleansers youll see in pvp and wvw? way more , wanna guess how easily you can negate raw straight up dmg? not as often / easily as straight up dmg.

Faelun.7563:

Allie Murdock.8152:

The Boz.2038:

I actually wasn’t talking about you, but about said thread. In 24 hours, that thread generated more dev comments and actual balance changes than the entire Necromancer subforum has in a year. THAT is what I am disgusted by.

Please understand that my job is to make sure the feedback of the sPvP players is properly communicated back to the company (note my title). The reason why I communicated in that thread was because that is my job. We have other community coordinators that are focused on other parts of the game.

The reason why I focused my communication in that thread is because it was loaded with constructive feedback, which should always be promoted. No, it was most definitely NOT the only thread about Necromancers. Also, it was NOT the only thread that I posted in regarding the Necro changes and feedback.

Now, with that in mind; This was a change that was SPLIT between PvP and PvE. The change ONLY happened for PvPers, and it was a quick turnaround due to the fact that the tournament was starting this weekend.

This does NOT mean that we ignore the Necromancer forums. This does NOT mean we don’t make changes that benefit PvE. This does NOT mean we don’t have hotfixes specifically to help PvE players.

Appreciate your feedback, but many of the things you are claiming are simply not true.

What bothers me most of all is that these changes were seemingly made based on the feedback and personal experiences of the vocal users of the sPvP forum as opposed to being made based on empirical data and evidence collected by the anet balance team.

thats def what it seems like , im usually a PvE / WvW person but when it was made apparent that only the SPvP forum was being listened to , us pve’ers came form our repsective class forums onto here to make our voices heard for a change….or atleast try >.<

Fenrir.5493:

Yes burning should be only on warriors,eles and guardians since they have poor acces to conditions, then nerf it.

but then i have to raise a question how a warrior would be producing fire (exlcuding a fire weapon itself) , they are masters of martial prowess , not magic……give warriors heavier bleed abilities if anything. Theyre not master enchanters (we saw this with Dervishes back in Elona , still would LOVE to see this clas brought back btw)

Atherakhia.4086:

Make it do the same damage as poison and put revealed on the target for the duration of the burn.

i approve of this ;-) consider the s-storm necros are dealing with , we could use ONE good thing atleast.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Norn is indeed probably the best race for WvW necros due to Snow Leopard.

More generally, Necros are incredibly strong from WvW. Marks are great area denial (as well as AoE damage and CC when tossed into a zerg) and our utilities are some of the nastiest in the game. One thing, you have to make sure you position well. Though we can output serious damage and control, we don’t have any blocks or invulnerable effects so if you’re in the wrong place, you’ll get crushed (strategic use of Flesh Wurm and Plague form can help mitigate this, though).

marks are good unless your looking at a stealthed thief that can apparently bash your face in to near half health (pre patch) before even triggering the marks XD but yea WvW is ideal for staff necros

A talent so high up in the power tree thats a crit proc that makes no sense……lol

LastDay.3524:

Enundr.9305:

LastDay.3524:

Enundr.9305:

pretty much , all for a skill/trait NO NECRO WANTED

I did.
Stop talking for me, thanks.

has doubts that you actually did…..but that your here just to troll the forums cause you couldnt care either way….;-P

My first exotic armor was CoF.
My hybrid set has had a Fused Dagger for quite some time.
My Zerker/Knights mix set uses Fused Gauntlets and CoF shoulders.

Also I remember suggesting torches as off-hands for Necro multiple times.
I’m also working on an Incinerator… Well, more or less.

I’m sure you can find some of my screenshots around, I’ve been here since before the launch.
I don’t know what more I can offer to prove my claim, but I was absolutely overjoyed to see Necro finally get burning.

ok first off over half of that has no grounds for proving the point , 2nd , adding a torch isnt a bad thing but thats an entire skillset right there being added , not a SINGLE TALENT that ends up screwing all other skills because of it , no real build diveristy was added in this case , and in return for that , DS gets nerfed PvE wise (yes NERFED you take as much dmg if you dont pidgeon hole into a specific skillset (ie wasting utility slots for Spectral Armor , etc) rather then using a build you prefer , and i dont say this out of blind rage , i tested this in Hirathi Hinterlands on a champ centaur , duoing it with a thief , specced 20 into DM , 20 into Spite , 30 into Curses , NOT using spectral armor , and holy crap you die just as fast now as you did before , nothing was fixed other then not being able to asborb that heavy hit now , aka our major source of defense was nerfed).

All because of a SINGLE trait and ppl crying in pvp , that pve gets ruined for alot of ppl. Seperating the 2 skillsets would have been better like it was back in GW1……but no you didnt provide anything to back up the statement (yes i was here back in BWE2 so still waiting for that to be anything valid here? =P )

Requiem.8769:

So don’t use it?

the reason isnt a use it or dont , the reason is because of an unwanted “addition” the class is getting nerfed as a whole unjustly….ppl try to say your more tankier now , but in PvE , your dieing just as fast as ever , in some cases you feel squishier then before….so your forced to go with spectral armor (build diversity FULLY being destroyed in such a process for pve for the sake of pvpers)

Thesilentflute.8761:

Lol Shame I guess we will have to do without your company. I enjoy all aspects of the game everything is amazingly done for an mmo, but I do share your concern I have been sitting out of tpvp waiting for them to tone down necro.

Edit: And the only thing wrong with the instances is that the players exploit their way through them. You can’t pve for a challenge cause people would rather find a spot to de agro or leash then to fight as intended even if it takes longer. It is a community issue that is self perpetuating.

i think thats in part due to the fact that some trash mobs are as powerful as boss mobs , and not as rewarding (at all lol) , thats why you see ppl “exploting” their way through them usually , trying to bypass mobs that dont reward and tear your group apart like its a boss group…..not entirely a community issue there……thats the midset of great risk great reward , and hwen you see these mobs you see the risk , but you dont see the reard other then just being able to move forward.

Mrbig.8019:

i don’t even see the problem, necro still dishes out enormous damage and is a lto more tanky than before.

still op as kitten, but i can see the point in bashing devs for their " we don’t want whack a mole" when it’s exactly what they’re doing.

sry but as far as pve , we are NOT tanky , we are taking as much dmg now as we were before (ie the LF pool drains JUST AS FAST as previoulsly , the diff is now we have to spec spectral armor stuff to survive , build diversity is almost dead at this point if you want to function in pve)

LastDay.3524:

Enundr.9305:

pretty much , all for a skill/trait NO NECRO WANTED

I did.
Stop talking for me, thanks.

has doubts that you actually did…..but that your here just to troll the forums cause you couldnt care either way….;-P

JETWING.2759:

There are no reasons for necro cry about berserker and stability. Berserker last 8 or 10 seconds, and stability can be converted.

The problem are that necros don’t want challenge, they just want go melee and spam all conditions without any inteligence or hability.

yes , cause you know a thief that can spam stealth / backstab going in stealth near death with conditions , coming out full health no conditions while dropping you like a rock , complete challenge there <rolls eyes>

how to counter stunlock warriors? kill them , but then well be OP cause BS / stealth spam thieves arent , so wed get nerfed again for no reason whatsoever…..i guess cause we have the ability to KILL and almost nothing in defense? XD

sheelzi.5803:

1. Introduce Dhuumfire.
2. It’s OP, so nerf terror.
3. It’s still OP, so nerf Deathshroud.
4. Hmm it’s still a bit OP, let’s nerf Dhuumfire.
5. ?

pretty much , all for a skill/trait NO NECRO WANTED……kitten revert everything done to necros to pre Dhuumfire , we were better off there then we are now (as far as a pve point of view goes , cause quite literally these patches have just s*** on the pve aspect of necros)

Homonavn.6348:

You can’t think like this… If we would have had burning for an adept trait it would be SUPER OP for conditions builds. They did this so we have to take 30 into power for the little extra condition damage. But it is a little stupid, yes

how about no burning at all , and undo all the recent dmges done to necros? i mean no necro wanted burning , it made no sense EVER for a necro to have burning abilities (yes there were fire golems in GW1 , but that wasnt the necro conjuring flame themself , thats necro using reanimated parts that were “fire touched” , resulting in the feiry golems)

SlyFoxSays.5342:

Hakkology.3189:

For necros ;
Well for some reason minions were tougher back in GW1.

Or there wasn’t so much aoe damage, so MM builds were much more viable. They used to give an amazing support for the whole group, and decent dps ( I haven’t played GW1 too much so not really sure about this )

Now minions are just… They die too fast with aoes. I’d prefer having a massive army of 12 minions instead of 5 minions with special abilities :P.

Imo having some kind of aoe damage mitigation for minions might actually make minion builds more viable in PvE, or even WvW. Despite the lower channel time and other special advantages, lack of damage mitigation on minions makes them weaker and useless in GW2.

I agree, something should be done about the state of minions for all classes, they fold quickly under pressure, but strictly talking PvP, there seems to be a reason why MMs and Spirit rangers weren’t viable in GW1, they had obvious rupt counters. Pure rupters dont seem to exist anymore. As well, they had severe limitations. Spirits gave AoE bonus’ to all and didn’t walk around, minions were mindless drones and extra dmg from them took thought from the user…

as far as GW1 pvp MM were viable , just harder to master , some more skill required that once going , could become the terror that necromancers were , now when you a see a MM you go “oh look minions <blink eyes> haha look at that necro with all his minions on CD trying to actually fight , free kill (more or less)” the skill factor is not appliable here as of the state of minions got destroyed between the 2 games……yes minions could die in GW1 pvp as well , but you werent restricted by long * cds on the minions , just needed energy to cast them (plenty of ways to get energy back ) , some of us still wish MM would be as viable as it was in GW1 , but with how PvE dungeons are designed , it will never be due to the mass aoe you see nonstop , and with necro survivability seemingly getting destroyed every patch now cause of pvp , cant expect well see any changed for a chance to see MM again…

Hakkology.3189:

Nerf Necro this, nerf necro that…

I was just starting to enjoy the game, even before the dhuumfire addition. Now i’ve got tired of unstable traits and changes,I might just reroll on ele.

Maybe i’ll just take a break from game. Hope that PAX is worth it.

i think alot of ppl are going to take a break….some flatout quitting……ive already had ppl say this in guild chat lol…..asked random ppl and that say alot of this s*** was stupid beyond all belief……this is ridiculous…..the fact that pve is getting dictated by pvp balances…….i really hope pax was worth it for anet….cause i can tell you alot of ppl might not come back seeing this is how the games going to be handled……i mean seriously why even make the pve content of this game if all that was going to be dictated by pvp opinions? just scrap the pve altogther and go with pvp……see how long the game lasts…..cause thats pretty much the feeling right now…..

side note WvW isnt directly in the pvp category , its a PvPvE category , might be why it doesnt fall in the pvp balance category but more pve balance (in all rights its its own type of mode but you get what i mean …..i think?)

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

It is pretty frustrating. I Necromancer is my second most played class next to the Engineer, and I suffer from both of the problems that the classes have.

Engineer: Devs have no idea what they’re planning. They get nerfed frequently despite not being topped tear, with builds literally being eliminated instead of nerfed. They make them low damage in a game where damage is king.

Necromancer: Devs have a concept that makes Necromancers incredibly hard to balance. They deny the necromancer all of the survival skills that other classes rely on, then give them a strange mix of power and finite survivability in order to compensate. This puts necros in a strange place where they are hard to balance, and how well they do really isn’t in their control.

and thats assuming your all into pvp , not necesarily applying to ppl that like to PvE and WvW on occassion….but then as far as WvW goes its usually zerg fights / solo capping stuff , the most you can try to balance there is making sure there are no bugs / exploits ppl can abuse to flip the control on everything faster then it should (ie castle in EB , all walls up , all gates up etc , all of a sudden theres a mass zerg in there with no help from mesmers (not a real bug or exploit that im aware of just an example of things that generally need to get handled in WvW mostly))

Thesilentflute.8761:

… lol I am sry you were killed by a thief. I do tpvp with a thief/Ranger/engi/mesmer I just deleted my necro since everyone is playing them now started a guard. your ability to choose one of the 5 classes I play out of 8 is astounding tell me how will Justien Beiber die I would like to be prepped. Lets stay on topic.

im pretty sure i was on topic in regards to talking of pvp and changes on necros not being as OP or have any semblence of “balance” like you were saying with “stop qqing” type of post ;-) last i checked i havent seen one post youve put on here was anything other then baseless slander to anyone expressing that the changes done to necro were unjust and how some of us would prefer a diff between pvp and pve balancing since one is affecting the other too dramatically.

nothing wrong with asura , theyre fun , their animations are funny too like when stopping all of a suddenly and your guy is still trying to stop and ends up almost toppling over with 1 leg still keeping him stable XD , pain inverter is fun as well , and they have their own version of poison cloud that does the exact same stuff just no self weakness , 15sec longer CD then Poison Cloud , 3 sec longer duration…..and lets not forget the racial skills….golems are ALWAYS fun…..even if not necesarily that usefull…..XD

Thesilentflute.8761:

Lol Cry me a river you guys are still the top class in the game an have the ability to stunlock and kill some one before they can move. You still need nerfs you can’t have everything sick dps/survival of a bunker in dps/and crazy cc get real man.

lol stunlock eh? you mean the fear we get in DS which has an incredibly long CD? or the staff fear which you can usually avoid if the Necro isnt skilled enough to ground target ;-P sry were not the top class …..though im gonna guess you play a thief that perma stealths / backstabs nonstop , light them up with conditions , near death , poof stealth and come out full health and dropping me to half my health (pre DS nerf) in the blink of an eye? XD

Edit: oh how about the part where the thief can ignore marks that the necro is standing in the middle of and just drop that necro as well? love it , fear def helped there considering how the thief didnt even get touched by the marks till way after he had me at half health and for a little while after he broke stealth , to just go back into stealth again lol

Jski.6180:

Enundr.9305:

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 2’s not losing steam. Anyone who thinks so isn’t around on patch days. There’s still a whole lot of people playing it.

It’s not a blockbuster with 7 million player, but then no MMO that’s been produced in the last 7 years is. Not one. So how do you measure success.

Everyone says Eve Online is successful and that has only 500,000 subscriptions. I’m pretty sure that more people play Guild Wars 2 than that (but I have no way to prove it).

Guild Wars 2 is doing fine. The people who don’t like it say it isn’t….but you can’t keep producing new content every 2 weeks if you’re not doing fine.

Anyone who says you can is delusional.

patch days….you mean like that last patch that generally screwed necros over..?….yea…..thats such a good example to use…..lol GW2 is slowly losing ppl , ive seen ppl quit cause of this horrible balancing to classes thats based SOLELY on PvP alone , and no real thoughts to PvE , if you really think PvE is given any thought then you need to get a wakeup call…..like ppl that say DS absorbs more , thats only a pvp perspective , in pve ? you die just as fast , if not faster unless your always using spectral armor (ie we are being forced to spec into specific ways / utilities to even HAVE a form of defense unlike other classes that have plenty of defense) , and trying to rely on weakness for defense? lol wanna guess how many condition cleansers are in the game? our defense that way is also nullified , no thought is given to the pve aspect of this game anymore , its been purely on pvp. so big surprise why the game is slowly dieing , when you ignore a bigger player base like the PvE / WvW players , you tend to drive them off.

Only if your the one being driven off i think its ok.
What are you even saying here “ignore pve/wvw players” have you even played the game in the last 4 months? Most ppl would say spvp would be the most ignored.

ive been here since beta , noones really cared for spvp save for a small crowd , and in large parts i feel it might be due to the lack of seperation of the pve / pvp skills like we had in GW1 (atleast if youve been around long enough to remember that perfect system that is being thrown out for some weird reason). no reason to care for an aspect of the game thats destroying the other due to a smaller crowd , it happened in rift too and see how that games turned out?

sry Kiri i dont drink , unless your talking about water ;-P

lol someone should tell him were being honest here too , that were saying stop balancing the game on freaking pvp , the smallest freaking group in the game. cause your driving ppl away from the game XD can try to delete posts / ban all you want , wont change that fact at all.

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 2’s not losing steam. Anyone who thinks so isn’t around on patch days. There’s still a whole lot of people playing it.

It’s not a blockbuster with 7 million player, but then no MMO that’s been produced in the last 7 years is. Not one. So how do you measure success.

Everyone says Eve Online is successful and that has only 500,000 subscriptions. I’m pretty sure that more people play Guild Wars 2 than that (but I have no way to prove it).

Guild Wars 2 is doing fine. The people who don’t like it say it isn’t….but you can’t keep producing new content every 2 weeks if you’re not doing fine.

Anyone who says you can is delusional.

patch days….you mean like that last patch that generally screwed necros over..?….yea…..thats such a good example to use…..lol GW2 is slowly losing ppl , ive seen ppl quit cause of this horrible balancing to classes thats based SOLELY on PvP alone , and no real thoughts to PvE , if you really think PvE is given any thought then you need to get a wakeup call…..like ppl that say DS absorbs more , thats only a pvp perspective , in pve ? you die just as fast , if not faster unless your always using spectral armor (ie we are being forced to spec into specific ways / utilities to even HAVE a form of defense unlike other classes that have plenty of defense) , and trying to rely on weakness for defense? lol wanna guess how many condition cleansers are in the game? our defense that way is also nullified , no thought is given to the pve aspect of this game anymore , its been purely on pvp. so big surprise why the game is slowly dieing , when you ignore a bigger player base like the PvE / WvW players , you tend to drive them off.

very well said Fungalfoot

same here Brooklyn……i have no desire to play my necro at all atm……DS is paper thing now if you dont run a specific build with spectral armor (ie limiting build diversity) , our main form of defense since theres so much condition cleansers around (aka weakness = lol at any form of defense at this point) and its honestly the only class ive been interested in since launch , ive lvled other toons yes , some to 80 , some ive stopped playing at ~60-70 and just went back to necro , necro has been my one and only class ive loved since beta , heck since GW1 even……and that desire is getting destroyed cause “balance” is being done primarily towards the tpvp / spvp , and thats a load of rubbish to balance the whole game just for that aspect alone.

Dredlord.8076:

Allie Murdock.8152:

The Boz.2038:

I actually wasn’t talking about you, but about said thread. In 24 hours, that thread generated more dev comments and actual balance changes than the entire Necromancer subforum has in a year. THAT is what I am disgusted by.

Please understand that my job is to make sure the feedback of the sPvP players is properly communicated back to the company (note my title). The reason why I communicated in that thread was because that is my job. We have other community coordinators that are focused on other parts of the game.

The reason why I focused my communication in that thread is because it was loaded with constructive feedback, which should always be promoted. No, it was most definitely NOT the only thread about Necromancers. Also, it was NOT the only thread that I posted in regarding the Necro changes and feedback.

Now, with that in mind; This was a change that was SPLIT between PvP and PvE. The change ONLY happened for PvPers, and it was a quick turnaround due to the fact that the tournament was starting this weekend.

This does NOT mean that we ignore the Necromancer forums. This does NOT mean we don’t make changes that benefit PvE. This does NOT mean we don’t have hotfixes specifically to help PvE players.

Appreciate your feedback, but many of the things you are claiming are simply not true.

I hope you appreciate my feedback too. You have done your job poorly in the last few days.

You have brought your own bias into the discussion of class balance and it is unprofessional.

Your first comment in this thread https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Constructive-necromancer-thoughts/first

Allie Murdock.8152:

Hey all, just wanted to let you know that we’re watching this thread closely.

Really appreciate the constructive feedback, particularly yours, Phantaram. You seem to be analyzing from a very objective and unbiased point of view, which is very helpful.

As for the subject at hand, I don’t have anything to remark about it because we’re still wanting to see more constructive, unbiased feedback. We’ll continue to observe matches today to determine if any immediate action is necessary.

How anyone could think the OP was being objective and unbiased is mind boggling.

He even states his agenda in the tldr part.
He admits he has virtually no experience playing the class.
He includes no counter arguments.
He includes none of the drawbacks to the spec he is asking to nerf.

You helped push through a class nerf in 24 hours because of one nerf thread and your own bias.

You failed at your job this week…

i cant say i followed any of how this all happened but theres a thing that needs to be done more often , stop listening to ppl that cry nerf and test what theyre complaining about first….i dunno if that was done here but…..it feels like it wasnt….>.> but lets atleast try to leave insults for trash talking in competitive matches…….and focus on trying to FIX all this stuff first….