Well, first of all, you’re now talking about how the skills would work which A- Wasn’t the point of the discussion and B- We really don’t know yet
I mean, you’re going to have freakin’ 15 tome skills, I doubt they’re all the same as shouts
I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m saying we don’t know yet. Lets just wait before we get so negative. Im actually optimistic about these tomes, I wanted them back!
Well that’s fine, but if they’re not going to work like how tomes worked, then why call them tomes. For me personally, it was just a giant kittenslap because I was actually expecting real tomes to make a return after they were removed without an attempt to even balance them.
I’ve seen almost all of them, and 80% of them are point-blank 600 range AoEs. A few of them are cones and I think one of them can be ground-targeted a very short distance away (like 300 range at most).
Also kind of mildly annoying how they got rid of all the monk prayer references in tomes and replaced them with generic Elonian history.
I see nothing wrong about replacing garbage with useful, and re-implement this garbage WELL a second time around. I dont get what the hell is this about, did you expect them to just use these tomes on core Guard’s F1-3?
This elite spec was coming anyway, it was an idea that people liked and wanted it to come back, why the hell are people whining over everything
Removing tomes and then “bringing them back” as 5 shouts in each kit isn’t ideal, and that’s putting it lightly. These things aren’t tomes.
So basically tomes got turned into a bunch of shouts, because the game obviously needed more 600 range point-blank support. I was hoping for real tomes (along with tomes actually coming out instead of the paper swirl or whatever), but once again I guess I was wrong to expect better from Anet, won’t make that mistake again.
GW2, where people can exploit and cheat for seasons and years and you only get dishonor for couple weeks, if even. So ruining game for hundreds of players is punished less than some guy verbally harassing roleplayers in DR. What a joke.
the thing is items spells from ritualist would use that inertia bar, maybe tomes will feel like weapon casted kits?
What im wondering how is if they are allied targeted or when player uses it it will affect neaby allies as well.
None of the above, every leaker I’ve seen has either said they’re like kits or they’re like old tomes (or both).
it is not hard…the class name helps as well, still no one know yet, and wasnt there some info where some dev or who ever leaked it sayd that guard wont be a druid but it has some heal like it always had..?
Since this is a damage output game it will be a condi guard spec, that will output more damage purgin allies condis to fire damage or somethign arround it.
It just wont be a healer spec….
Player sasked befor HoT for a bow crap, and ANet gave it, after hot cancer builds and power creep players wanted a condi based guard and Anet will deliver it.
i can imagine tomes being something like the weapon spells ritualist used…one was used for some minor healing as well, and other used for AOE bombarding.
Personally, my source said it has more support than damage (in those words exactly). There were also some rumors that it’ll output a lot of quickness. Yes, it’ll have condition damage but I doubt that’s going to be the focus of the spec. A possible leaker said it’s not a healing spec, but at the same time leakers have said numerous times that the tomes are similar to old tomes, so there seems to be quite a contradiction there. The same(?) leaker also said that tomes are like kits, yet he didn’t take note of the initiative-like bar next to the new tomes (that kits obviously don’t have).
If it somehow doesn’t have a healing tome, I’ll be extremely disappointed, but I’m not expecting it to be a pure condition spec either.
Hopefully the xpack will bring a healer spec to guards. Maybe a rebuild of the mace or staff. But I agree guard support and heals in non existent. The other professions out there just do it better.
Its not a healer spec ist a condi removal + condi spec, with some minor healing.
It used to port you to an ally with the lowest health pool without targeting. The problem with that was that you had very little control over that since you couldn’t always tell during the heat of combat who had lower health and where that ally was. The new one is slightly better except that it isn’t really useful for supporting teammates either. Heals for too little for the cooldown it has and by the time you place your marker on a teammate to port over to them they have either already moved or already on the downstate.
Actually, despite the description, it just teleported you to the closest ally. The new version is a lot better, but it’d be nice if they allowed MI to be cast without line of sight, because that prevents the skill from working quite frequently despite the restriction of already requiring an ally.
I know this is the guardian forum, but targeting an instant AoE on an ally isn’t exactly that hard, and this is coming from someone who always plays with 200+ ping. Allies barely ever move fast enough to avoid it, and if they’re already downed then you need a better reaction time because the ability can’t activate faster than “instant”.
Maybe let’s leave the idea of making it a thief/mesmer kind of skill, but! Two options:
1. Give it a stunbreak to escape to an ally
2. Make it heal for 25% of target’s health pool when it is in downed state (but still retaining the heal as it is) – that would be a great ressing tool along with protective reviver.
What i would like to see that i think still maintains balance amongst the classes is make merc intervention port you to a downed ally within 1200 range. Would be a great help for a support guard build.
Would be a downgrade. MI’s only use isn’t to just teleport to downed allies.
I’d much rather have either its CD halfed or its healing scaled of off healing stat increased maybe 3 times or so. That way, it would actually be useful and worth keeping on the utility bar.
Same, although that might be a bit much. If it’s going to be buffed, it should be buffed directly, not buffed in such a way that it’s just disguised to give Blink to non-support guardians.
It was to my understanding when the game came out that we would not have dedicated heallers dps etc to end the holy trinity of mmorpgs and now the game has that. Everyone should be able hold their own and have means of viable escapes without depending on others wich was what gw2 sell out as coming out.
That was a crap ideology and I’m glad they’ve changed their view on it. Specialization is not even remotely a bad thing, and neither are healers.
That is like a necro asking for an instant cast Flesh Wurm.
that would help necros mobility issues alot. right now they just stand and die with no chance of running from a zerg.
The whole point to necros is that they’re really strong but they have weaknesses (mobility being one of them); thus they typically have a support with them to make up for those weaknesses, and that’s perfectly fine. I’m not sure if an instant cast flesh wurm would be a crazy change or anything, but they shouldn’t get mobility even remotely close to something like Blink.
If Mi isn’t weak at all then how comes nobody uses it in all 3 of the game modes? Cause abilities trash and needs to be fixed that’s why. Why is it bad for all guards to use it when all classes use at least 1 ability in every build? every warrior uses berserker stance, engi with elixir gun, necro with spectral armor, Mesmer and thief with blink, shadow two, ranger with immunity sigil and ele with their blink. Besides, I wouldn’t mind the healing be reduced if mi gets the fix it needs.
Those classes use those abilities because they’re almost completely necessary for their survival in PvP. Most guardian builds do not need a blink to survive.
Thief also has it, with a return option bundled in. Necro has a slower version with other perks.
What’s so different about guardian compared to 4 other classes?
Shadowstepping/teleports are kind of an integral part of the playstyles of thieves. Mesmers are a class focused around utility so Blink is also a given. Eles have the least amount of health and armor of all classes. Necros have Spectral Walk which sucks ass as far as I can tell, and Flesh Wurm which needs to be placed beforehand (which is a major disadvantage).
Guardians are already very mobile except when running away, and they have a lot of blocks.
I don’t think MI is weak at all. If it gets turned into a proper blink, everyone is gonna use it and then the healing is gonna get majorly cut as a result. It should be left as a way to get to an ally who needs support.
I dont know why people would say this would be overpowered. I mean mesmer and ele have a similar skill on 30ish CD and a stunbreak in one package.
I would say you heal.yourself for a medium amount and teleport on target area and heal allies (only allies) for a decent amount.
With about 40s CD this would be justified and support guard has more options and more mobility.
Mesmers and eles are completely different classes.
The problem is that not only support guardians would be using it if it was buffed. Meditation guardians would obviously use it 100% of the time.
I suppose I wouldn’t complain I guess, although that would almost certainly make it too strong and thus used by every guardian. I don’t think it’s a weak ability as is.
Auras -> Elemental Bastion -> Powerful Aura.
It will outheal a druid, though it doesn’t have the same heal spike as one. Needs to utilize Unstable Conduit, otherwise it won’t produce enough auras to really make it.
I like the WvW approach with water field blasting better (just more fun to me), but it likely won’t work well in PvP.
1k healing from each aura isn’t exactly the most impressive thing in the world. There’s Overload Water which is decent and WtPA (assuming you can actually hit every wave of healing), but that’s still really not much. I don’t see where this supposedly amazing healing comes from. The staff offers good healing but that isn’t part of the meta build. The only decent thing this build does that I can see is good condition cleansing and sharing shocking aura.
I don’t think druids heal that much either, although they make better bunkers.
No, no, was just comparing the adition of the 1k ish from the elite signet compared with the RF wich can be traited to heal and refresh virtues since no combat last that long to imply the RF has a long CD, compared with the signet over time heals.
I never tried the signet after the CD reduce, but imo easy to interrupt and f*** up the guard badly.
DH f2 has issues :\
When u think u will heal target and u see no heal and ur very close to the target…. or when target moves a bit from the landing zone while ur in mid air animation….
Renewed Focus is infinitely better for self-defense, but it doesn’t hold a candle to Signet of Courage supportively. They aren’t really elites that can be used interchangeably on the same build, what they offer is actually very different.
And that’s why you don’t use it on point and/or without stability. It’s not an elite skill for bunkers. :>
Yeah, like all DH virtues, it’s generally better for self-survival rather than supporting allies.
Permanent protection and high sustain aren’t enough support for you? It’s useless in PvE, except for carrying noobs, but it is clearly good for PvP.
Permanent protection might have been enough for me 3 years ago, and it certainly doesn’t look like it has high sustain to me, especially not on allies. Do elaborate as to where this sustain comes from though. I have my doubts but perhaps I’m missing something.
Honestly the “bunker” ele build seems like complete garbage to me, at least in PvP. It can’t really bunker and it doesn’t support much. I have no idea why it’s labelled as “meta”.
If one really needs the extra survivability they could take Magi’s, although another reason it’s not that great is because healing power synergizes much more with toughness rather than vitality (hence why the cleric amulet was often used) since higher armor increases the “value” of each point of health/healing. I would only ever take magi’s if that extra health is desperately needed or if the build in question does no damage anyway so it doesn’t matter either way.
Guardians can easily heal 1.2k every 8 seconds (far more than that in fact), although I’m not sure if that’s what you meant.
Signet of Courage’s passive is garbage. The real reason to use it is the active. I don’t for a second believe that it’s weak in its current state, simply because of its active. The only reasons people think it’s weak right now are because it’s mildly hard to use (at worst), and because it doesn’t really fit with the “meta” DH build (unsurprisingly, since it’s not support).
I don’t think DH virtues are necessarily worse, they’re just less supportive. F1 in PvP offers a ton of burning, F2 is in a 600 radius so it’ll heal/cleanse more allies, and F3 is on a lower cooldown which leads to more frequent stability.
Honestly with a staff and mace I don’t really see the point to even bothering with a mender’s amulet. Even condition warriors use amulets with high precision; the precision is generally there to act as a balancer to the other good combination of stats, although Magi’s doesn’t really offer that much more vitality and healing power over mender’s anyway I suppose. I’m just wondering if points can really be held with a base guardian shout build with Signet of Courage. Personally I think taking Signet of Courage at all kind of relegates a guardian to an off-point support build, but then in that case there are utilities that offer more support than shouts do.
I don’t agree at all that DH virtues are better than base virtues supportively, and I don’t even think that the “meta” DH build is all that good either.
Force of Will I think is ok, could be 1.5% per 100, but more importantly, I want Signet of Mercy to be a 15% heal modifier. 180 healing power is trash.
Agreed, that’d be really nice.
I don’t think the problem is that Force of Will offers too little outgoing healing (though I guess it could use a tiny bit more), I think the main problem is that guardians just don’t have any way to get more outgoing healing outside of Force of Will. If Signet of Mercy offered 15% outgoing healing and the staff trait offered 15% outgoing healing instead of the meh boon duration, then I think that’d provide enough potential sources of outgoing healing. I suppose there’s also the possibility that the new elite spec will offer some kind of healing boost, so I hope that happens.
Sounds like mace was never ment to work on a bursty game still mace as a bit of damage denial, and when paired with shield with ur staff is on CD, mace/shield has 2 heals on blocks(when traited) that can heals plus 2 aegis for damage denial, and dome burst also heals.
Staff 2nd skill is unrealiable to heal since the start of the game, it bugs alot, im using it to heal @ melee range allies to avoid making it bug, with a cast and burst right after cast, wich is stupid.
So that left us with only 1 skill as decent to heal with staff, Empower, that roots the caster, wich makes u a easy target, its a situational heal, i use more the 7k-9k heals from the DH f2 than the empower… wich i need to predict allied movements to get them healled -.-", or it will miss the heal if i dont land on same or closest 2 cells near that ally….
sorry the bad engrish, nowadays every one is expect in typoneese.
The blocks are nice. I don’t actually think the mace is a bad weapon, and I especially don’t think the shield is a bad weapon. It’s just that melee-range support is only okay if it’s near instantaneous and doesn’t need any other requirement to work (like being at the end of a combo). A dying ally isn’t going to wait till you get into melee range to someone right next to them and then finish the combo. It’s why Protector’s Strike is good for support but the rest of the mace isn’t.
Doesn’t really bug that often for me, but it does happen occasionally. I just feel like the projectile should be unblockable because it gets reflected easily when trying to heal allies.
I still think empower needs more range honestly, at least in pvp. I think the root is an interesting downside to the skill, it’s just stupid that you have to root yourself within 600 range specifically. Not that I really mind, but I also think it’s kind of ridiculous that it currently has the same cast time as Signet of Courage.
Anet is among those people, judging by the traits. And it’s not like staff is that much better at healing anyway.
I honestly hope they rework mace into a self-defensive weapon next xpac.
Well, the mace has 180 radius sustained melee healing, and the staff has a projectile AoE heal and 600 radius burst healing which means you can actually hit your allies with the healing outside of WvW zerg blobs. With the recent buffs to the staff’s healing it’s even better.
I hope they rework it to that too. The way it’s designed makes it much more suited to be a tanking weapon.
I don’t really like paladins much myself; I don’t really care much for heavy armor stuff in general but eh. I just like guardians because they’re descendants of monks and they use a bunch of light magic.
@mage it needs to be better due how game is being played, dont forget that builds do more damage on WvW due food and more stats, and it looks like WvW guard lack compared with the pvp performance.
When u want to reach faithfull strike your need to bail out of melee due red circles bomb incomming , or targets are already ded :|
play hammer support with consecration imo is out of question….its feels very clunky.
Healing is stronger because of food too though. :>
And that’s why the mace’s auto-attack is garbage supportively in any serious situation, because who on earth is gonna wait in a 180 radius next to an enemy while you finish your 3-4 second combo for a pitiful 1k heal. Druids already have trouble healing in melee range without having to have an enemy right next to them to finish a combo. I honestly can’t comprehend why some people think the mace is a better healing weapon than the staff; it has its strong points, but allied healing is not one of them.
Guardians don’t maintain viability because of support, contrary to the OP’s claim.
He just copied that from the official patch notes, not that the devs said guardians are retaining viability because of support. They said they’re buffing some support stuff on guardians to help their support builds continue to be viable, and they are viable (if not more so), even if this clown community isn’t entirely aware of it.
Yay, looking at the update seems that someone want this builds work.
I’m so glad that ANet are actually thinking for themselves and not balancing the game around what the meta sheep want, and I’m not just saying that for guardians. I hope they keep buffing underperforming but very interesting stuff like glamours, the ele’s staff, and so forth. Hopefully conjures and spirit weapons are next, and if the meta sheep QQ about it, all the more delicious.
What a delicious bunch of changes. This makes the staff quite a lovely healing weapon now imo. I’m really glad that they seem to be pushing healer guardians, especially in PvP.
Won’t touch the mace with a 15 foot pole though, at least not for the purposes of support, but it’s pretty good for bunkering now I suppose.
Some leakers have stated that the scourge provides AoE shields that absorb damage (I’m assuming sand shields or something). Whether these absorb a percentage of damage or apply a “white health” shield like in other games, I have no idea.
Kind of looks like the axe has a symbol just based on the second icon. I find it unlikely that tomes will have symbols, but I suppose it’s possible. Not that I would mind assuming they pulsed quickness/resistance/stability.
My two biggest fears are the healing tome just being a cleanse bot, and tomes being butchered into point-black 600 range support.
They are for more selfish builds i know, but more important that dont make your ally die, is to make target die faster than he can burst your allies.
And its way more easy to be carried with damage output in this game than actually play with some mind and toughs on good gameplay, this game is way more simple than people thinks.
Shouts actually and consecrations it is not hard to overwhelm that kind of support, so imo better support with mobility and damage.
Not really the most sound logic. If you’re playing a DPS build in a team comp then that’s fine, but if your necro needs support then I guarantee that doing more damage isn’t going to solve that glaring issue.
Also, mobility/damage =/= support. No offense but I literally cringe when I see people saying “I’m supporting my allies by dealing damage”.
I highly recommend ditching Pure of Voice, Runes of the Water, and the Knight’s amulet for Force of Will, Runes of the Monk, and a Mender’s amulet respectively. You shouldn’t be standing on the point with a build like this anyway (unless you’re using DH).
Signet of Courage is extremely good support, but if you’re too noob to use it or you know you’re gonna be focused, I guess you could swap to RF.
