Guild Wars 2

Real rangers use entangle anyway…

Ithilwen.1529:

I’m seeing defenders at a huge disadvantage in most cases. There is little or no shelter on the walls within range / LOS of the attackers and the tankers laugh off arrow carts.

The “fortresses” are pretty much a joke. A hand weapon should not even damage a keep door.

Again, have you ever seen a real medieval castle ? I have and i must say doors aren’t that thick.

It’s crap…
And also 99.9% fake imo.

gitflap.9031:

Look guys, a lot of you have gone off-topic, and few of you get the point I’m trying to make. I didn’t come on here to whine about losing. Let me try to explain what bothers me so much about this ok?

WvW is about capturing and defending fortresses. That’s where the bulk of the points are scored; owning a structure. When a fortress is T0 we call it paper, but it isn’t literally paper, it’s a fortress!. The idea of WvW was to recreate Medieval style sieges with all the organization, artifice, and machinery that those entailed. If fortresses really had paper doors that could be taken down in seconds by a bunch of numptys with swords, the 100 Years War would have lasted a week and a half…and most of that would be travel time.

I don’t expect a fair balance in WvW and I fully expect 20 to be overwhelmed by 70 man golem rushes most of the time. The exhiliration comes from the times that you actually beat them back. I’m not talking about playstyle or server style. I’m quite used to how AM play and have never moaned about it before. I’m not moaning about it now either. They found an easier way to do the job is all. I am saying, however, that 45 people PvDing a gate in 10 seconds utterly breaks the immersion and feeling of reality that kept me hooked on WvW for the last 14 months.

I defy anyone, including those in the AM herd, to find any lasting enjoyment from playing WvW like this. Finally someone found a way to suck all the fun out of a game that I’ve loved so much for such a long time. And I think that’s a shame.

50 guys hitting a typical non-reinforced wooden door with huge kitten hammers. What do you expect ? Of course it’s going to melt…it should be even faster considering all the fire fields put on it.

The real wars were hard fought battles with defenders. They couldn’t approach unharmed and hit the door, they would die trying…that’s why they had to siege up, use trebuchets, sieging for days or months to starve the population inside, etc.
Would you siege a fortress for months in a video game ? That does NOT sound very fun imo.

I find it pretty fun…the pull (#4) is awesome. The #5 skill, while not doing insane damage, is pretty good for retaliation/projectiles reflect.
I went with axe MH to have some ranged option along with axe offhand ^^

GS is great, evade every 3 hits with autoattack and the block can last up to 4s. The build can also be switched to a LB 1500 range piercing arrows build with just trait swapped, so it’s pretty fun (ofc, if you go PVT stuff, you won’t do insane damage, but still).

DevonCarver.5370:

Black Scoutsman.5830:

Allie Murdock.8152:

The queue is not broken. It shows approximate positions, and at times like the reset it won’t be as accurate as the number of people logging in simultaneously can cause it to update incorrectly. Once you move through the queue, the positions tend to be corrected.

Thanks for the report!

If its updating incorrectly…….wouldnt we call that broken?

The queue itself is not broken, the display is an approximation. The queue is completely FIFO and while the display can be misleading on occasion, the underlying system is functioning exactly as you would expect.

Then if it IS FIFO, why not display the ACTUAL number instead of an approximation ? It’s actually easier and takes less computer processing power to show up the real number than calculate an approximation…wth ?

mistsim.2748:

to steer us back on topic, away from fantasy and laboratory type testing environments where your target remains still without dodges, blocks, protection, etc., i will repeat the original question – why do WvW guilds hate rangers? *hint: it’s not because the leaders of these guilds are unaware of amazing and effective prof nuances known only to a handful of elite rangers!

please remain on-topic, thanks!

No, it’s not. But it’s because MOST rangers don’t know those nuances that MOST rangers actually suck. Which is why guilds don’t like them. I don’t think any good guild would be opposed to a player going ranger if he can actually prove them he’s useful in their guild as a ranger. And rangers can assuredly be useful…not the same way a warrior is, not the same way a guardian, necro are. But in its own way.
So there, you have your answer.

BroScientist.9875:

I like choosing the easiest path!

Or do as i do…stick with ranger, learn every aspect of the class and be awesome.

Pwent: try signet build with GS/axe+axe (or LB) 30/20/20/0/0. skills: healing spring, signet of the wild (stability), muddy terrain (cause it’s awesome) and either signet of stone for invul, quickening zephyr for stun break and burst or a trap for even more immobilize/cripple. + entangle as elite. Best at cutting tails, preventing enemies from invading a circle, resilient and good (not great but still) damage.
Works great for zerging.

Repost from another thread since it’s relevant here:

The rangers changes are really lacking.
The class could do with overhauls in several areas such as shouts, spirits and pet AI. I realize that pet AI probably won’t ever change, but the other 2 can be adressed.
The shouts lack utility and while some can be good (with heavy trait investment and runes), some others are only good on paper.
For instance, guard has a 1 sec cast time, making it a mess. The pet part is also pretty much useless in all situations.
Search and rescue has never worked even once for me, it always failed to revive anyone. And it failed because it did NOT find the dead guys around me, not because the pet was killed or was called back or whatever.
Overall, with a shout build and runes of the soldier, it could be of use in wvw such as what the warriors and guardians have. However, the fact that it grants regen and not healing and mostly the fact that the effects not coming from traits/runes are pretty useless make them really lacking. I’m not saying we, rangers, want to be warriors. However, i do believe the shouts could also grant more utility to groups and at least have one of them less “pet focused”, making the regen part bearable.

Spirits suffer the same kind of comparison sadly. Sure, on paper they look very strong, especially the elite one. However they die so fast that they are near useless. It is very hard to ever revive someone with the spirit of nature since it has a cast animation and requires the spirit to still be alive. The warrior banner revives instantly as it is cast. The healing part of the spirit is mostly useless in pve/wvw since the spirits die so fast and they have bad pathing (same goes for the pets). If you removed the cast animation time from their active effects, it might be a bit better and they could also do with a hp boost in pve/wvw. Since you have already made a difference for the pets, why not do the same for the spirits ?

The pet AI really needs some work. The pathing is really bad and they run far away and come back more often than not instead of just following you. I realize this is probably the hardest thing to change as it requires heavy coding modifications (i work on video games as well). However, this is required and necessary to improve the class as we usually do less damage due to the fact we have a pet. A pet that instantly dies because it goes right into the AoE circles for no reason when you barely moved 1 foot.
This is, again, mostly a wvw/pve issue. I couldn’t talk too much about pvp as i’m only rank 10 there and mostly use it for build/skill testing so i don’t know about the class balance there.

I hope you read my reply and can adress at least some of the issues i pointed out in the near future.

The rangers changes are really lacking.
The class could do with overhauls in several areas such as shouts, spirits and pet AI. I realize that pet AI probably won’t ever change, but the other 2 can be adressed.
The shouts lack utility and while some can be good (with heavy trait investment and runes), some others are only good on paper.
For instance, guard has a 1 sec cast time, making it a mess. The pet part is also pretty much useless in all situations.
Search and rescue has never worked even once for me, it always failed to revive anyone. And it failed because it did NOT find the dead guys around me, not because the pet was killed or was called back or whatever.
Overall, with a shout build and runes of the soldier, it could be of use in wvw such as what the warriors and guardians have. However, the fact that it grants regen and not healing and mostly the fact that the effects not coming from traits/runes are pretty useless make them really lacking. I’m not saying we, rangers, want to be warriors. However, i do believe the shouts could also grant more utility to groups and at least have one of them less “pet focused”, making the regen part bearable.

Spirits suffer the same kind of comparison sadly. Sure, on paper they look very strong, especially the elite one. However they die so fast that they are near useless. It is very hard to ever revive someone with the spirit of nature since it has a cast animation and requires the spirit to still be alive. The warrior banner revives instantly as it is cast. The healing part of the spirit is mostly useless in pve/wvw since the spirits die so fast and they have bad pathing (same goes for the pets). If you removed the cast animation time from their active effects, it might be a bit better and they could also do with a hp boost in pve/wvw. Since you have already made a difference for the pets, why not do the same for the spirits ?

The pet AI really needs some work. The pathing is really bad and they run far away and come back more often than not instead of just following you. I realize this is probably the hardest thing to change as it requires heavy coding modifications (i work on video games as well). However, this is required and necessary to improve the class as we usually do less damage due to the fact we have a pet. A pet that instantly dies because it goes right into the AoE circles for no reason when you barely moved 1 foot.
This is, again, mostly a wvw/pve issue. I couldn’t talk too much about pvp as i’m only rank 10 there and mostly use it for build/skill testing so i don’t know about the class balance there.

I hope you read my reply and can adress at least some of the issues i pointed out in the near future.

hihey.1075:

Ok, this is it.
I was solo roaming in WvW with my ele. I don’t usually have many problems killing stuff: coyotes, skelks, yaks, and sentries go down really fast and don’t cause much problems.

However, everytime I find a thief, no matter what, I just die. And the problem is, I can’t even see him!
I just go around, then bam! Dead! I got hit by 18k spikes out of nowhere. And when I see the thief in front of me and I manage to avoid his attack, he will just go in stealth in another gimmicky way and backstab me from behind! I can’t even use my heal, because his burst is on a 0s CD!

For reference, this is my build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEEQJAodnEElXbdN6GQYrAhcIDDHIgxBQQkittenHiBA-jkxAYrAm8KiGbLoIasKJMVJRUtToIa1yAYPCA-w

I seriously hope Anet will fix stealth because at the moment it’s just too much. I get killed sometimes by zerker rangers, but at least I can see them and if I get killed it’s because they are good (their bear hits really hard and must require a lot of micromanagement to be effective!). But when it comes to thieves, it’s just 0 risk, 101% reward, go stealth kill people #yolomode

Hahahah best build ever !
You know, what’s even more sad is that most of the whining posts are written even worse than this one :p
Good job, that was fun !

Julie Yann.5379:

You and I get into a boxing ring. You are wearing a set of shutter glasses that open for 3 seconds every several seconds. I come around a sucker punch you, that’s when the shutters open. During those open 3 seconds I throw some powder into your eyes causing you to miss your first attack or waste a second cleansing and then I evade your following attack. 3 seconds are up the shutters close, I laugh as I see you flailing your arms around and then I come around and sucker punch you again. Who has the upper hand in this fight?

I realize i have no reason for being in a boxing ring with you when we’re playing a football game and get back with my team mates ?

It’s true that regen isn’t as useful as a plain heal sadly. I wish they would change it (no reason not to after all, warrior has a heal on his shouts).
But i’m still going to give full support a go because i like testing things myself ^^

Monkeymonger.9235:

First off, no i don’t have great experience on my ranger. But i’ve played wvw (in organized guilds for the greatest part) since the headstart. So for my judgement i’m reliant on experience, theory crafting and the verdict of players with extensive experience on ranger.
That being said, what’s your point besides insulting me? That you believe ranger is viable? Seriously, condi bunker?
I was talking about raid guilds of 15+ that try to min max at every opportunity.

Sorry if you thought i was insulting you, i’m not. Yeah, i mentionned condi bunker as being one of the good ranger builds but not necessarily for wvw. What i meant is you have to know everything about a class before eventually discarding it. For instance, while i do know enough about the warrior, i couldn’t talk too much about the guardian. I do have one but haven’t played enough to know the class so well that i can theorycraft on it or discuss the utility of a skill in each build. I can however do this for the ranger because i’ve played it a lot since start and am on a T1 top server.

mistsim.2748:

Fenrir.6183:

Dumb wvw guilds might have fixed templates. And as far as it goes, i’m doing pretty good.

Most serious guilds use a flexible balanced comp, which always excludes rangers. This is because other profs can do everything the ranger can, but better. For example if you want mass cc, just get a staff ele. He’ll give u soft and hard cc, two water fields, massive aoe deeps and more survivability.

I’m glad you think you’re doing well, but this thread isn’t about you.

No, i know it’s not about me, i couldn’t care less what people think of me on internet. What i do care about is trying to have a real debate on wether or not the ranger can be useful enough to be integrated in “core” guild raids in wvw. And i do believe with the right build, it can. As i said earlier, we are very effective at CC (immobilize/cripple/chill) and that can really turn a fight around due to the high number of targets we can affect.
And aside from that, i’ve rarely seen balanced gvg fights (ie fights with the same numbers on each side) so what usually matters the most is not dying rather than having the perfect setup. And for that, i find that the ranger’s CC is much more appropriate than the typical shout warrior…those hammer stuns do take some time to cast and you don’t have the range the ranger has on his CC. So yeah, he has other purposes, more hp and the condi removal shouts but the ranger has its uses as well.
And from my experience, the warrior does not do more damage skillwise (i’m talking about a hammer/sword warhorn warrior here).

Depending on your healing power, it should be pretty much the same and it heals your allies as well. Troll unguent does have 5 sec less cd thouh.
Yeah RaO is pretty much must have since you don’t have the signet trait in that build.

Wouldn’t runes of the soldier be better with the build ? Since they provide condi removal ? It’s true that the boon duration is pretty cool but in hard fights having lots of AoE condition removal seems a must. Might be situational but better be prepared for the harder fights imo.

Do you feel you could do without signet of the wild or not ? It has great passive with a lot of healing power but it’s also a skill slot you could use for something else (like another shout).

I’m going to try a full support shout build in the near future as well so all advice are appreciated…
Thanks again to everyone participating in this thread !

Dumb wvw guilds might have fixed templates. Other actually think and try to find ways to improve every class and gameplay.
Just because you don’t know the class doesn’t mean it sucks. Have you got a ranger ? Have you tried melee signet builds ? Have you tried shout/support builds ? Have you tried condi/bunker builds ? Have you tried to come up with new gameplay ideas ?
No, probably not. You just read a post saying rangers sucked and decided to jump in the bandwagon…

I’m in a t1 server consistently being in the top servers and spent most of my time in wvw. I’m not a “ranger lover” or whatever, i used to play thief and happened to like the ranger more than it or my warrior so i always try to find ways to improve the effectiveness of my ranger for my guild. I eventually switch to warrior when needed (ie when there are not enough of them for a raid) but raid much more with my ranger. And as far as it goes, i’m doing pretty good.

But the condi removal with soldier’s rune is still good enough to make me want to try making a competitive one for zerg/guild raids ^^
Thanks for the heads up on the 5 targets thing though it is similar to the heal on the warriors shouts as well.

3 questions concerning your build:
.Troll unguent ? Really ? When we have one of the best waterfields in game ?
.Why RaO and not Entangle for more immobilize ?
.Why do you use rune of altruism ?

With a signet build, you can have all your advantages and actually do more damage. (30/20/20/0/0) and have stability+invul as well as muddy terrain and entangle. But maybe i’m wrong…

Noobie.1073:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMEQJATRjAVx1tV2Vs2Bi1j90n9zeYIG9IXBUlxChALC-j0DBYLDRjiAgKIaZPDZNRKiFVRs4aIr6FYqSJV5KyqXAWzAmzR2jDzbIpSBMqwI-w

Plant yourself on a nice hill and tag anyone who wanders by with this build. Watch how fast their health melts. Although yes if they come at you fast enough things can get a bit hairy that’s why you also have your greatsword. If you have those 25 stacks of Accuracy handy a quick chain of Swoop-Hilt Bash-Maul should put your opponent in panic mode.

…..As a fellow ranger, I will honestly say, 9/10 times I will poop on this build. Sorry, but you’ve got next to no toughness and 18K health will melt away in a backstab/heartseeker. Not to mention you have no condi clear. Who solo roams with no condi-clear or stun break?

That and using traps with no condition damage.
smh

RoyalPredator.9163:

Uh… here you go. Strenghts:

• Can shoot with same ranges as any other class
• Pets with funny names

Weaknesses:

• You’ll be targeted and killed first, even when in back
• You have no survivality at all
• Your damage is very small but won’t even applied due bugs
• Low stats
• Bad Traits

/ Piken Square – Ranger Commander w/ Balanced full Ascended Gear

Pve commander i guess…lol.

Yup i want to try a healing/support build as well…thanks for your post Oak da Vite !
The build i’m using right now is pretty fun as well… 30/0/0/30/10 with signet of the wild.

Spirits in wvw are a bit lackluster, mainly due to the fact they die so fast…
Depends what your focus is though, if it’s roaming, might be worth it, dunno.

I’m trying a build right now, signet/shout build with protect me, sick em, signet of the wild and entangle. GS / Sword warhorn…
Seems pretty fun, does a bit less damage than my previous build (30/20/20/0/0) but more help to the the zerg/group with condi removal and regen/swiftness.
Sick em + signet of the wild also does pretty good damage with the pet…

Vox Hollow.2736:

Hello forum, I have an odd topic of discussion for you.
How would you rank all of our terrestrial Pets in a Tier System?

Tier System, meaning;
God Tier: I feel forced to use this all the time
Tier 1: I use this often
Tier 2: I think it’s okay. Not as useful as T1 but not as hard to work with as T3.
Tier 3: It feels hard to be effective while using this.
Junk Tier: I never end up using this.

I always like seeing how these kinds of topics shake out. It gives interesting insight into what other people are doing, and as a silly thought exercise it can help us focus feedback as a community.

WvW, GS/signet build.
Tier 1: Drakehound, Polar bear, Wolf
Tier 2: Drakes, Spiders
Tier 3: Rest except
Junk: Birds. Not enough hp(least hp/toughness combo) and lack of usefulness overall for wvw.

Pve (i don’t do dungeons):
Tier 1: Moas (blue/red particularly). Their healing is just great for soloing stuff (champions, even soloed Grenth in Orr with them).
Tier 2: Spiders/any ranged pet really. For bosses. Others will die too fast or just be used for buffs / condi removal.
Tier 3: Rest except
Junk: Birds. Again, lack of purpose and usefulness along with lowest hp/toughness.

PvP: I don’t pvp too much but here goes.
Tier 1: Drakehound / Wolf / Polar Bear / Spiders.
Tier 2: Birds. Finally, their high damage can be somewhat useful here.
Tier 3: Rest except
Junk: Moas ! Their abilities are too slow (peck takes too long to be used in pvp). Also i don’t like seeing them limping

edit: forgot about god tier. Oh well, just use tier 1 as god tier and tier 2 as…tier 2.

Have you guys tried a ranger shout build already ?
I’m thinking of trying one in wvw and would like some input on its effectiveness.

When traited right, shouts can grant swiftness/regen and also remove conditions with soldiers rune. The question being, can the pet survive long enough to make the rest of the effects worth it…
Especially in wvw, where pets die very very fast.
However, the swiftness/regen/condi removal part stays true even if the pet is dead so it could be somewhat effective (even if it doesn’t instant heal like the warriors shout)…

What do you guys think ? Can it be made ?
I’m going to test anyway but i want some input ^^

Axes are fine, i use them a lot. Sure, a little damage boost wouldn’t hurt on the MH but the first skill is great, it allows me to hit hidden opponents in keeps / towers by hitting the archers on the walls. The chill is nice to slow down a fleeing enemy.
I do agree, however, that the spread on the second skill makes it very hard to use effectively.

Also whirling defense, i mainly use it for the retaliation. Sure it can do pretty good damage but the fact it’s very slow makes it less damaging than Maul. The retaliation is the redeeming part about it. And i wouldn’t want it as a MH skill.

Terravos.4059:

You can run around with Ranger in a Zerg Fight, I do it on my ranger all the time, Running Signets and what not…However just because the Ranger can do it, doesn’t mean he’s actually good at doing it… There is a reason GvG zerg balls are nothing but Guardians/Warriors/Necro’s and such..

Also people keep bringing up Healing spring, let me be clear, Healing Spring is great and I bloody mean Great for SPvP, but everytime someone mentions it for zerging or gvg, I question if they done it recently, The one thing all Zergs/Guild Groups have in common is forming in a ball and moving, Healing Spring will not be used most of the time because of this. Its great in SPvP because you’re fighting on a point, but when Zerg Balling its not that amazing….

I get it that you’ve never heard of blast finishers ? A healing spring can heal back to full hp a full zerg with them.

Julie Yann.5379:

I think it’s cute to see Rangers the viability of their profession in WvW. Denying the facts doesn’t make them any less true and the fact is Rangers don’tmake the cut in WvW.

I have never lost to a 1v1 to a Ranger in WvW, one of my friends who PvPs/WvWs a lot, and who originally mained a ranger now playes a Necro or an Ele in WvW because she says her ranger sucks too much in WvW.

What you fail to understand is these:
1) No one cares about 1v1 in wvw. Also, a strong ranger can beat any noob, same as you can beat any upscaled. This has nothing to do with the current discussion.
2) Your friend probably just sucks at being a ranger. My main was a thief and while i don’t “suck” at it, i’m way better with my ranger. Which is my new main and have spent most of my playing time on now…
3) You have to spend a lot of time (probably more than any other class) trying to make your build the best you can. Mostly because a lot of people don’t bother and believe rangers are underpowered when they’re not.

It’s because of people like you, spreading rumors with NO fact to prove them that lurking rangers are complaining instead of trying to better themselves.
I could say i’ve never lost to a necro 1v1 in wvw with my ranger, which is true. Does that make necro a sucky class ? No. Maybe i only encountered noobs. Maybe i was lucky. Maybe my build was better against necros…who knows. That still accounts for nothing as far as balance goes.

Facet.5914:

Prysin.8542:

Facet.5914:

Noobie.1073:

Though I do agree with you that in an organized GvG is much different than a Zerg vs Zerg, I was pointing out the fact that throughout this thread, people are talking about rangers not being able to last when being focused yet don’t realize that no profession is going to last very long when being focused.

Again I really don’t understand what you’re getting at here. Certainly any player on ~any class/build will go down eventually when focused by a large enough group, but build and micro create massive variation in exactly how long that takes. Rangers have a very unforgiving and frankly poor set of survival tools compared to other classes (no stabs, invulns, or target drops) and accordingly go down much faster on average.

Fenrir.6183:

Get what i mean ? They’re not the best, kind of jack-of-all-trades. Ok. But that means they can do as much as others, just less specialized.

This is a nice sounding principle but it just doesn’t work out this way in practice. The total output of the ranger is vastly less than that of the supposedly “specailized” classes that it seeks to replace. In fact, the notion that the other classes are very specialized is dubious in the first place. Nearly all of the currently popular composition builds are providing good damage, support, and cc at the same time.

Oh please, Rangers have 20 second stability on Elite, 8 second on signet if traited, stealth aka target drop on LB 3, 6 second invuln shout, 6 second invuln signet if traited.

However i am probably just lieing about this, because there is no way rangers can actually have this stuff. It’s impossible.

Alright, perhaps “no” is too literal of a word. How about “few” and “worse than what other classes have” and “unusable without significantly detracting from the overall usefulness of the build.”

What gwen-class is this ranger that has Signet of Stone, Signet of the Wild, Protect Me, and Rampage as One supposed to replace? Haven’t we been told over and over again in this thread that the ranger pulls his weight with traps, muddy terrain, and entangle?

Dude, stop trolling once, would you ? What class has 50sec stability, 100 sec invul and 10000000k million hp heals ? Seriously.
If YOU want to have more survivability in your build you CAN build a very resilient ranger. The build i put was to show what was possible to do concerning immobilize/chill/cripple. Of course you can switch some of the skills around if you want to. Same goes for the traits. With the same build, you can have a LB piercing arrows 1500 range build that’s very effective at defending in wvw. But maybe you’re going to tell me “OH where is this build” because you can’t actually make one yourself ?

Ranger just has one of the steepest learning curve. You have to actually learn to play your class before being effective…unlike warrior, guardian or necros that can be played somewhat effectively with very poor knowledge of the class (i know, i also play those 3 classes from time to time).
You need to know your class well, timings, positioning, etc.
Most people aren’t ready for this since gw2 is so casual friendly. But it’s not that hard actually, it’s much easier than playing old school MMOs like everquest…

As long as there is no change to the combat log to make it useful, we can’t really say that a class is “underperforming” as we have no evidence of it. I’m pretty sure rangers are not due to my own experience and discussions with top wvw rangers however.

We actually have good builds for zerg too trunks…

Ragnar dude…you’re comparing ranger to SEVERAL other classes at the same time lol. Sure a ranger can’t do the work of a guardian + a warrior + an ele.

I’m not saying rangers are the BEST, i’m saying they’re good enough.
Consider this:
If rangers can do what several other classes can do BUT only at a lower output…What’s the difference in having SEVERAL rangers do the same output as SEVERAL other classes ? It’s all the same while still allowing players that love their ranger to play with you.
Get what i mean ? They’re not the best, kind of jack-of-all-trades. Ok. But that means they can do as much as others, just less specialized.
What you need is someone dedicated to his class, discarding a full class because of zerker LB bears is stupid.

And yeah, i know hammer guardians can immobilize from a distance. Just not as much people as rangers can. And it can be avoided much easier than traps/muddy terrain or entangle. Sorry for the miscommunication, i should have said “can’t do it the way rangers can”.

You mean…like those Entangle, Muddy Terrain, Spike Trap, Frost Trap, all our pets that immobilize / chill / fear ?
We DO have a lot of movement reduction and immobilization.

It’s true however we don’t have many ways to help the party (well we have spirits but…you know…).
Still, i wouldn’t say rangers are weak…you just have to adapt and find the right build for what you want to achieve. And for some purpose, it might be to play another class, sadly^^

CRrabbit.1284:

I am lol at this build too.
Iook at those ascent gears, you know most likely he is just making a build in his imagination but never play it. I did test some builds similar and it’s a guaranteed rally bot for opponents due to those reasons you have mentioned.

In zerg fight, toughness/HP is not so important. The key to survive is mobility+anti-CC+invul, he has nothing in his build. Once you get caught, the difference between 3k armor VS 2k is just being killed in 1.5 sec vs 1 sec. My guardian now wear zerk gears and I found no difference vs my old PTV gears for survival.

Hahahaha…nice trolling.

Ragnar.4257:

You mean this build?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNAR3XjEVJ2xVOWo2Bi1DCt/B1UwJLxUwfHdytaUL-jECBofERzEEwEIBK1sIaslhFRjVrETDjIq2cuIa1yAwsAA-w

Zero stun-breakers, zero invulns, long-duration blocks, evades, or other survival tools necessary for hard-pushes through chokes or for “panic” moments.

If you’re too noob, you can switch the trap for signet of stone which gives you 6 sec invul to attacks or any of our stunbreakers(we do have 4 of them). GS #1 => evade and GS#4 => 4 seconds of blocking. You also have a leap to get through chokes.

Lack-luster damage. The only attacks that match GWEN damage are Maul and Path of Scars.

Not at all, it does very good damage… GS #1 does good damage and has an evade.

You have 2 immobilise skills on 20-second cooldowns, when warriors (Flurry) and guardians (Hammer-3) can do the same with much lower cooldowns, and they don’t have to give up any utility slots to get them. And then they have Earthshaker and Ling/Ring of warding on top of that. Is this the “great CC” you were talking about? The sort of “greatness” that requires you to give up 2 utility slots and doesn’t even provide half the CC of other classes?

2 ? Funny cause i see 3. Entangle, trap, muddy terrain. That’s 3 dude. And it WILL cut the tails, warriors can’t do it effectively, they have to get inside the enemies to do it. We just have to be somewhat behind. That’s a range issue, warriors and guardians just can’t do it.
Also…path of scars is used to pull enemies to your zerg, hilt bash can stun / daze and winter’s bite chills. If you’re gonna talk about other classes weapon skills, look at the ranger’s weapon skills as well…

Entangle is a gamble. Sometimes it can wreck people, but alot of the time they can teleport or cleanse their way out of it. And in the middle of a train-clash the roots will simply melt after only applying immob once.

Not a gamble, even if some people can get out of it, it’s very reliable and will trap several enemies. It might mean some rally for your downed, and an easier fight against less opponents.

Bleeds are irrelevant in large groups.

Pets are irrelevant after the first 10 seconds of large fights.

Again, if your pet dies too fast, you’re a noob…No one told you to take a crap pet with 2 hp…The polar bear has 30k hp and does’nt die that fast…he can also chill (-66% speed and cooldown reduction).

Aside from Healing Spring, no support for the group.

+150 precision, best waterfield in game, i carry a torch and warhorn for fire field and blast when buffing up.

I’m sure you can survive and tag alot on this build. But it’s not actually doing very much for the team. If I were building a team with a fixed number of slots, there is no way, absolutely none, that this build would be chosen over a decent guardian, warrior, ele, necro, or even thief or engi.

Yes, it is. It can save people, it is very good at CC and you’re quite the noob if you wouldn’t take this over a thief lol.

Who cares about stealth in wvw ? The only good use for stealth in pvp is veils.
No one cares about roamers and i don’t see a particularly big amount of thieves in wvw either…
I’m guessing you’re a troll or just kitten after being killed by thieves.

Ragnar.4257:

Fenrir.6183:

-snip-

What is this magical 30/30/30/30/30 ranger build, that can have 10 pets, 20 utilities and 5 different weapons?

Rangers are great for 1v1 through to 5v5, but their usefulness rapidly decreases in larger fights. Nearly everything in your post is about conditions, and conditions plain suck when facing 20 warriors blowing traited warhorns and 20 guardians with pure-of-voice shouts. Nevermind the fact that pets and spirits will melt within seconds.

So if you’re talking about roaming, then yeah, rangers are good. But I think this topic is more focused on 20+ guild groups, where rangers are definitely not good enough.

Yep they are. Read my post again. They’re not guardians, they’re not warriors, they’re rangers. They require good mobility and can do a great amount of CC through skills AND pets. Check the build i just posted and come back again to discuss.

Umad.7528:

Please post a build that shows me what a ranger can do, why it is usefull and why any other class cant do that better. The spirits are useless the pets are useless and pretty much anything else i can think about what a ranger can do some other class will be able to do that better. Nothing personal its just a broken class.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNAR3XjEVJ2xVOWo2Bi1DCt/B1UwJLxUwfHdytaUL-jECBofERzEEwEIBK1sIaslhFRjVrETDjIq2cuIa1yAwsAA-w
Better immobilize / cripple / chill than other classes. Very resilient build and good damage while staying in the pain train. Ability to pull enemies with axe #4.
You can swap traits and use a LB with piercing arrows / 1500 range with the same build.

This is my current build, it’s very good in wvw but maybe you could enlighten me as to how the class is “broken” instead of trolling ?

Sorry, not sure why but i can’t seem to post this to the suggestion board…So here goes:

Here is an idea that i think would improve the overall usefulness of the ranger class pets and provide a boost to the class’s usefulness in wvw and maybe pve as well (not too sure here as i don’t pve).

The skill would be: Possess Pet. Medium cooldown (something around 40 to 60 after you’ve returned).

What would it do ?
You would gain control of your pet…losing your character’s control in the process, leaving you vulnerable (so not something OP).

What would it achieve ?
Give our pets more purpose as we could then use our pet to scout outside of a tower, go pull some mobs, etc. It would make rangers better at scouting than most classes which would give them a bigger purpose in WvW. It could be useful in dungeons (again, might need some feedback about this).

By having this as a new skill, it would not be too overpowered since it would eat up one of our slots.
And it’d be really fun to use too…what player doesn’t like transforming or playing a mob (something that exists in several other games).
/discuss

Healing spring removes conditions.

Covis.6037:

Ranger is bad, ranger pet sucks, ranger doesnt support, ranger cant damage, ranger cant control, ranger cant eat damage. Only good skill is water field which is your heal (bad, eles give it easier) and entangling roots (long cd, warrior does it with 10x less cd . ). You can always say “you just gotta learn to play ranger”, no its wrong. Ranger will never be viable for <5 man groups, unless they revamp the class and remove their pets and give more powers for the class itself.

Ok let’s see…
I’ll skip the “ranger is bad one”, so let’s start at ranger pet sucks.
Here are the conditions that can be applied by our pets:
Chill, Immobilize, Fear, Poison, Daze, Bleeding, Confusion, Vulnerability, Weakness.
Our pets can also grant:
Regen, Might, Fury, zone condition removal.
Obviously, they also do some dps, even if they die fast. You need to be aware of where your pet is going, you can also keep him by your side to grant buffs / conditions easily if you’re uneasy with it dying too fast. Pets can also heal btw.

Ok, let’s move on to the other points.
Ranger support. Several options here…first, there’s a trait that gives 150 precision to allies. We also have spirits that can grant buffs to people along with other effects (CC).
Warhorn grants swiftness/might/fury (and has a blast finisher). We have a fire field with torch (blasted => might).

Ranger damage. Let’s not talk about zerker build that would die too fast in wvw. Rangers can do good damage with other builds. First we have the trap/condition build. It’s a bit hard to play because of the lack of stability in the build (elite but long CD) but it does crapload of damage. Axe/Torch + Shortbow grants a lot of ways to apply bleeding, burning and poison.
Another good build is the GS/Axe axe signet build i’m using atm in wvw. You do a bit less damage but Maul does around 3k5 dmg when it crits so it’s pretty good still. And this build has very high survivability.
There are obviously many other builds that can do pretty good and consistent damage…the LB can be effective with eagle eye and piercing arrows.

Ranger cant control.
Ok let’s see…Entangle, muddy terrain, spike trap/frost trap. Along with the pets CC and the weapons CC…hmmmm i’m starting to ponder your ability to use logic here. The ranger might be one (if not THE) best class for cripple/chill/immobilizing the enemy. This makes us VERY effective at cutting tails or preventing zergs from entering towers/keeps.

Ranger cant eat damage.
Stability with signet of the wild (8s stability). Immune to attacks with signet of stone.
Block with GS #4. Evade with third hit of GS #3. More armor with signet of stone.
Regen with signet of the wild.
My ranger has only 20k hp but 3k2 armor and he survives just as well as a warrior most of the time.
You can blast/leap your own waterfield.
Imo rangers, while not the best at survivability, can be pretty good at taking damage.

Also, our waterfield is probably the best in the game. Of course we can’t put it down as much as ele but still, it stays there for a long time and can be blasted a lot.

So yeah…next time you want to criticize a class, learn to play it first.

Because most people don’t know jack about most classes.
Same reason they only go for Warrior, Guardian, Necro and Mesmer.
They believe those are the best classes when they’re not necessarily.

For instance, Rangers can be pretty tough (mine has 3k2 armor), have access to low cooldown stability via signets, can do a great amount of CC (cripple, chill, immobilize notably), can run good condition builds, have a water field that sticks for a long time (great for blasting it) and also have pets which allow for more CC (cripple, fear, immobilize, chill, etc.).

It doesn’t help that most rangers run Zerker LB builds… With a little diversity and creativity, the ranger can be a very good class…

Akisame.9508:

Spirits should be untouchable, like warrior banners. To this day I still have not seen one single spirit ranger in WvW.

They would then be too strong. In order for the warrior banners to have effects when you move, you have to pick them up…thus giving up your usual weapon skills.
No, what they need is to have much more hp. Still being killable but not dying in 1/4 of a second like they usually do. Either that or no/very short cooldown on recast.

One thing i would love to see is the ability to play as your pet. You are vulnerable but stay in the same spot you were and you just play with your pet, using its abilities.
It would give us more purpose, would be awesome for scouting and give the pet another meaningful way of being used. Seriously, they need to add this.

I disagree with this thread. Most of it is full of stupid ideas. Why change axe to a melee only weapon ? Want to melee, use sword kitten it.
In some setups, axe is the only ranged weapon a ranger gets (in my axe/axe | greatsword wvw build for instance).

I think you just threw ideas you think would improve the ranger for YOUR gameplay style. Don’t forget there are tons of different builds, and purposes (wvw, pve, dungeon pve, pvp)…
In WvW, having axe as a weak melee weapon would serve no purpose.
Also, the shortbow is fine, thank you.

Someone proposed changes to healing spring. Again, consider the whole picture. While not the best in 1v1, in WvW it can make a huge difference. The water field being in the same spot a long time means a lot of people can blast it (= a lot of aoe healing).

7/10
I really like her outfit and face but imo the weapons don’t fit (i know, not much of a choice when you have a legendary…but still).

Here’s my ranger (i like referring to him as a shaman instead though).

And another one of my necro i took at the right time ^^

Here’s mine… voodoo necromancer named Tamtam Spirit (french name of Tom-tom), brother of One Eye.
Those that know shall understand.

Garrisyl.7402:

Meglobob.8620:

Condition damage kills you slow.

5k/sec condi necro dissaggrees.

5k/sec condi necro would need 7 seconds to kill my warrior. That’s without counting any stun, shout (that cleanses conditions) and use of the warhorn. Well…i guess it’s not that OP, is it ?

I think with enough hp, conditions alone aren’t much trouble in wvw. If you’re roaming, you’re doing it wrong. If you’re with friends…chances are some of them are guardians and warriors and condition removal will be ok then.
Also, all classes have options for condi removal and you can use runes (melandru or others) as well as food.

Rangers are fine. Just try another build.
Pets are also fine to a point, i mainly use them for the CC and let them have their fun otherwise.

Tongku.5326:

However, they suffer a lot in full groups:
Lack of CC – cause what is 1 binding roots vs a hammer warrior’s cc ?
Pet problems – not ranger exclusive, minion necros and phantasm mesmers have same problems, add to that the lack of pet AI in this game.
Lack of stability
Lack of stun breakers
Lack of group utility – what can a ranger provide in comparison to a guard, war, ele or even a support traited necro or mesmer ?
Ranger water field – what is 1 field vs eles multi fields, or virtue guards heals which provide prot, aegis, stability, even a group stun breaker at same time as the heals (albeit weaker ones but can be used 2-3 times per each ranger CD)?

CC: spike trap, frost trap, muddy terrain, entangle, hilt bash, point blank shot, crippling shot, crippling talon, winter’s bite, path of scars + pet fear / immobilize / chill.
Stability: signet of the wild, rampage as one.
Stun breakers for rangers : quickening zephyr, signet of renewal, protect me, lightning reflexes. You also have invulnerability with signet of stone.

They’re not the best at healing, they’re not the best at dpsing and they’re not the best at survivability. Still, there are very viable options for wvw other than using a bow with zerker gear…

I haven’t used the porcines even once (other than to laugh at their ridiculous activated skill).
I either use :
wolf/dog (CC) WVW
spiders (CC/ranged dmg) when using bows WVW
moas (they self heal…most reliable pve pets i’ve tested) PVE