Guild Wars 2

I agree with all the ones that said it was fine.
If you change this, how would people play in wvw before 80 ? It’s a good thing they have upscaled stats, if they didn’t, they wouldn’t stand a chance, get frustrated and stop playing the game.
Some people only play in wvw, even for levelling. If you change the stats upscaling, they will just quit. Is that what you want ? Less players ? O_o

Raven.9603:

Ohhh man. Let me get this straight…

DeadlySynz.3471:

Fomby.4295:

Umm, my guild runs through Zergs to get the backline all the time, and we rarely die like you say. Also, any ranger trying to barrage us will get half of their health taken away due to retaliation.

But maybe it works against pug zergs. So ya got that going for you.

…I played in the bottom 2 tiers, and the upper 2 tiers. None of those servers have ever been able to effectively bust through and take out the back line. I sit in gold league now…

Are you seriously going to come on here and suggest that no zerg has ever run through another and hit the back line? You realize everyone who plays this game knows that is a bunch of BS right?

DeadlySynz.3471:

Retaliation used to be a problem.. but for whatever reason, it doesn’t affect me anymore. I can’t remember the last time i’ve taken any noticeable damage, and I’m about as glass cannon as you can get.

retal does about 180-230 dmg per hit at ~2600 armor. at 12x hits, barrage causes the ranger to take at least 2160dmg per player. If barrage lands perfectly and hits at least 5 players for all 12 tics, thats 10,800 dmg. Thats not opinion, thats the math. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkFhU2WHW9c)

DeadlySynz.3471:

I’ve seen people argue that thieves simply stealth to the back and take out rangers and other long range targets.. but I can tell you after facing …(every NA server)… none of them have been able to successfully pull it off without getting wiped out first while i’ve been in the zerg. Believe me, they try, but always fail. The same goes through penetrating the front line to get the back targets, it’s never happened in any zerg i’ve been in.

So you ARE seriously suggesting that no one has ever penetrated to the back line of a zerg. Well I guess I could go in depth on how stability, berserker stance or shout based condi clearing works, but i dont think its necessary. Every active wvw player (besides you) sees zergs run right through eachother to the back line on a daily basis.

DeadlySynz.3471:

Even despite what i’m saying, I still think Rangers are probably the most useless class when it comes to WvW based on what they bring to the zerg or groups in the ways of support. If they come from a pure dps standpoint, it only really takes 2 fully glassed rangers in the back lines to help flatten the front line of the enemy zerg.

I say help because, if the front line is forced to eat even half of barrage’s ticks (which almost always happens), they’re done for in seconds.

So rangers are useless, but 2 of them can flatten out a front line in seconds with half of their barrage? Which, mathmatically is the same as 1 of them with 1 full barrage? So one glass ranger can wipe out a frontline if they eat 1 full barrage! Quick commanders, time to stack rangers! Thats incredible.

Or uncredible.

tl;dr:

• The probability that you play wvw and dont see zergs break through the back lines on a daily basis = very very low.
• The probability that you play longbow and have never taken a 8-10k in retal damage from barrage = very very low, unless you missed every time.
• The probability that 1 full barrage (or 2 half barrages) from a glass cannon ranger can wipe a front line = 0. Impossible.

You are either the rarest magical unicorn of rangers in terms of what you have seen in game, or you are full of it.

Perfect answer. +1

To add to it: the guy is probably focusing too much on the “ooooh nice numbers” he’s seeing and not thinking enemies put out water fields, heal up and the pain train (notably warriors) have a very large hp pool. My warrior has 3k3 armor and 31k hp. Good luck killing him with your barrage lol.

Why troll unguent ?

Oldbugga.7029:

You didn’t answer the question. Why do you think YOU have the right to judge other people’s enjoyment and spoil it….DPS is not a measure of enjoyment. It is an kitten measuring tool for those who need to ….well you know… Just because you have more DPS DOES NOT give you the right, any right at all, to pass any form of judgement on others in the group. Like I said, if you are unhappy with the performance of the group for whatever means then YOU leave it. DO NOT think you have any right to judge others and stop them from enjoying the game as they want to play it. A DPS tool is only another form of the “adolescent tape measure” and does not belong here.

Just because you disagree doesn’t make you right. Some players are hardcore players and want to achieve the full potential of their characters. Why would you deny them the right to ? Just so you won’t get kicked from a hardcore guild where you have no place ?
Just find players with the same mindset as yours and play happily. I know i’d like to be able to compare builds / skills / traits in an effective way to have my character perform the best i can get it to perform. If you like slacking, that’s your choice.

Everquest.
No maps, no light source when you started (some races couldn’t see kitten in caves), loot a piece of equipment and all the gold from the corpse of a player, having to run butt naked to your corpse to get your equipment back, 4 different factions that could talk to each others and play with each others (and kill each others)…that game had it all, real hardcore at its best.
kitten i miss this game. I just wish they’d redo it exactly the same with better graphics.

DPS meter should be a plugin.
What we need is a functionnal combat log that really logs everything that happens in combat. Like dodges, dot damage, etc.
Then you can make a dps meter by logging all that info into a file (that’s the way it was done in everquest) or directly streaming it to the app (can be done too ^^).

Ares.3746:

Femal Norn Warr´s ftw!

Very nice !
Here’s mine…norn ranger. I’m pretty happy with the look i gave him, haven’t seen anyone like it in the game.

People are transferring to tier 1 servers for the league rewards. Simple as that.
They should remove the transfer to populated servers and make it available to empty servers only.

Guys…the servers are down. It includes the login server, obviously. No point in letting you log in if servers are down…

I wish they’d grant priority to players that have never transferred…
Lots of people coming to SFR since we are being successful in wvw and then we’re having trouble playing / raiding because of it.

I would if it didn’t mean endless queues on my server =/

Stop saying ranger. A good ranger brings much more than some other classes to a zerg.
You have a water field that cleanses conditions and brings regen, fire field (torch) that does a lot of dmg and traps you can even put on walls.
I do a lot of condition damage with my trap/condition build and i mostly use the pets for effects (fear, chill, etc.). You have to think your build specifically for wvw, not use some kind of berserk crit LB build.
I’m using Axe/Torch with a switch to LB (useful for players on walls, destroying ACs, etc.) and doing fine imo. Traps with targetting/bigger range, entangle. They all do big damage when spec’d for condition damage. The thing really missing to rangers is anti-CC (stability mainly) but other than that, it’s pretty solid.

Sure it’s not the best class, but when played correctly, you’ll do just fine with a ranger.

Imo the thieves are harder to play efficiently in a zerg (i also play one but mostly for roaming and stealth kills)… however, as stated in an earlier post, WvW isn’t only zerg fights. Thieves do make great scouts. They are also good at protecting camps, sentries from roamers and defending a position / updating siege, etc. Sure it won’t give as much Wxp but it’s important as well.

Zenith.7301:

The ranger has no aoe outside barrage. My ranger is completely useless even using full spirits — my pet has to sit besides me on the majority of 30+ zerg encounters. I don’t have any cleave as a condi spec.

Traps.

Then what ? What’s the issue ? They break doors with golems ? It’s their purpose. They used supplies to build them, you failed to scout => you lose the tower/keep.
Scout and bring people there next time.

Tbh, i don’t see that many golem rushes. A lot of different strats going on, trebs, catapults, diversions…etc.

Golems are pretty weak, not sure what you’re talking about. If half their zerg is in golems (or more) you shouldn’t have a problem killing them all by rushing into them.

All skills from mainhand axe make back items (such as holographic dragon wings or the new catcher items) disappear. Can this be fixed please ? I’m assuming it’s just some kind of missing flag or something.
I’m sure some other classes / weapons are concerned as well.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Achievement_rewards#Achievement_rewards

Direwind.8409:

Tbh while I find stealth stupidly broken and overpowered all else seem like a bad trade off for a game that is group pvp oriented

Please explain to us how stealth is stupidly broken when all it does is hide you from the eyes of your opponents and doesn’t prevent any damage nor CC…

Erzian.5218:

@Fenrir.6183:
Either you are a huge troll or absolutely clueless. This build and its equipment choice are terrible for roaming and even worse in general.
I’m pretty sure if the majority of wvw thieves did actually run this build, there would be much less complaints:
- No sufficient initiative management and therefore less access to stealth
- less burst damage than decent d/d specs
- waste of a trait (hidden thief)
-why the hell would you run full berserker and a +5% crit chance sigil when you have the hidden killer trait?
I honestly don’t understand why you tell people to l2p, when you obviously don’t even know how the standard back-stab combo works because if you did, you wouldn’t run hidden thief, which in fact reduces the combo’s damage while there are at least 3 other traits that are better in the same slot.

I think you’re the one that has no clue. This build works perfectly for roaming and you have quite enough initiative to get in stealth. Maybe you should try it before telling me i don’t know how thief works, because when i’m using this build in wvw i do kill most roamers i cross path with (assuming it’s 1v1). Hidden thief is a really good trait…sure executioner sounds great too but i’m actually relying a lot on backstab damage, i don’t want half of them to do 1/3 of the damage it could actually do. Maybe you don’t understand but i don’t care, this build is great in wvw for roaming, believe it or not. If you tried and are whining because you don’t know how to play and need more initiative to be effective, try switching shadow’s embrace for infusion of shadows. That should be enough..because you might not know it but you can’t re-stealth instantly.
Also, you might not know but the actual weapon skills do damage as well. So having more crit (which is obviously a good idea with that much crit damage) means much more damage as well. Try some theorycraft, use numbers and then test it on the field…
Steal (you’re now in stealth and target is poisoned and has taken damage) if you weren’t already in stealth / backstab / 3x #1 / *CnD / backstab / heartseeker *might need steal instead depending on wether the guy moved far away or not if you have it up. Sure there might be better combos “on paper” but when you actually play the game, you don’t always have every cooldown available, opponents actually move and don’t stay still and you also take damage and need to dodge. Play the game instead of bashing people because on paper their build hasn’t got the BEST BURST OMFGLOL11!

wish.1027:

Which is to bad, cause we need a cool Scorpion build that works. We got the pull and the teleport punch (mug+steal) and almost the clothes! Just need the flaming skull head and the guardian torch #5 skill. lol.

Looks nothing like scorpion…
This one does:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/d/df/Male_Human_Thief.png

Roe.3679:

Fenrir.6183:

So, because i won’t put points in it, i’m not allowed to discuss it ?

You’re complaining about how the skill effects you and is a detriment to what you want to do, so yeah, I do find it weird that you’re QQing about an option you don’t have to take. It’s not like there is a widespread negative effect that you’re discussing.

Discussing != QQing. I’m just discussing the utility of the ranks which i think is near zero.
Btw, it’s “affects” not “effects”.

Sword torch isn’t a combo that would do good as a zerker. It has a lot of condition damage which aren’t affected by zerker stats.
I guess longbow would benefit more than many others because it’s all physical.

After the initial low prices, no one will have that high quantity of sieges just sitting in their bank/inventory because it will have been sold already. Prices will go up and probably stabilize (same as roe said basically).

Terrible idea.
15 characters

So, because i won’t put points in it, i’m not allowed to discuss it ?

AndrewSX.3794:

Btw, to clear up if somebody missed it, if you have only 2 supplies or the build/repair needs only 2 supplies to fill out you won’t waste 4 (or more depending on rank) of them – the “Uses 4 supplies at once” is a bit misleading.

But you can’t just use 2 supplies on your repair to keep the rest to build a siege or whatever else you might want to keep them for. It’s still a pain even though it’s supposed to help.

Tellerion.8102:

Roe.3679:

Zergs can use siege too but you must not WvW much if you haven’t seen a couple guys in a tower with siege fend off a whole Zerg. More siege more quickly favors smaller numbers because zergs never have an issue speed building things, anyway. Now a small group can get up an AC or 2 without someone running in to hit it and prevent it from being fully built because now it needs more supply that a small group doesn’t have.

I see your point, but from an attacking pov, it’s close to impossible to fight against well-placed siege inside a tower, unless you of course blob up even more, or find something totally unguarded.

You’re being a bit extreme there…if you can’t hit the door, try the walls. And while they repair the damage you’ve done, build other sieges so that they can defend everywhere, they’re losing their supplies. You can kill the dolyaks and get the nearby camps to prevent them from having any more. Also if you outnumber them, they can’t risk trying to destroy your siege (catapults) or well maybe they will but they’ll die and it’ll be easier for you then.
This feels like a real war, cut the supply lines and make a real siege…way funnier than just being able to steamroll the towers / keeps or take them with 4 guys even when there are defenders (i’m looking at you warhammer online).

Time to take your monthly bath, mate !

You do know that other games require you to actually stop what you’re doing and loot the corpse (=> some games even have you kneel and not be able to do anything else) ?
The new loot option is great and imo none other is needed. Just use the key while fighting, you can even spam it.

kishter.9578:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Time-to-bring-Thiefs-to-a-normal-level/first

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/If-You-Are-Squishy-Running-Solo

Straegen.2938:

A decent necro that isn’t in full zerg mode, is a bear to take down melee. I usually strafe them and see what they are made of. Good ones force the fight into range since marks/wells are thief bane. Once it gets to range the fight is tricky because the health point pool on a necro is fantastic. By the time I whittle one down, usually someone else has joined the fight one way or another.

Marks are no spamable maybe you using too much you thief and forget other classes have CD.
What use is a good health pool when i get down 10k in a burst attack before i can cast DS? look at the picture and tell and compare my attacks Vs the thief attack in a mere sec.

4sec and a half isn’t spammable but still pretty good, don’t you think ? And just because you have no idea how to spec / trait and gear up doesn’t mean that thieves are overpowered…

I main a ranger. And play my warrior much more than my thief.
Just learn to counter thieves and you’ll be fine.

Well precursors are meant to be somewhat rare…and they are. It’s a good thing.
I haven’t dropped any either, but i don’t really care ^^
My legendary is an exotic (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Fate_of_Menzies)

kishter.9578:

Surprise attack
High mobility
Stupid Huge Burs attack
imposible to catch
-take us 10 minutes: 8 people in hill to kill a thief due the amazing and only Gw2 stealth mechanic

No matter my defense, 1 second and i have my hp to 30%- Heartseeker, Heartseeker, Heartseeker im dead. 9k hp is 50% of my bar, if i barely have a second to react and fight back, stealth stealth stealth. backstab Heartseeker Heartseeker Heartseeker.

Im done from now on im just gonna log off everytime i face a thief, no worthy my /&%/&%$ time.-

Why are you complaining ? That’s 4 hits. In wow i used to 2shot my opponents as a rogue (mutilate). And you only have 18k life, if you had 30k it’d be much harder to kill you. Also, if you’re not running any stunbreaker, you can’t really complain. You have the tools, if you’re not using them it’s your own fault.

gennyt.3428:

Fenrir.6183:

This is crap.
You now use your whole supply instead of deciding where to use it. So it might be faster (is it anyway ? haven’t tried, most likely won’t) but you’re forced to use all your supply on only 1 thing. No more keeping 2 or 4 supps for a ram after repairing something just a bit. No more just repairing the gate/wall so it comes back up and keeping the rest of your supply.
And as others have stated, most siege are up in a flash already anyway. Not sure what those ranks are going to achieve. Probably nothing since no one is going to take them.

Am I missing something? You are not forced to do anything, you don’t have to get the ability. What are you really complaining about here?

Im’ not complaining, i’m giving my opinion on the new abilities. I don’t really care, i won’t be putting any point in them but still, they’re pretty useless…

Erzian.5218:

Fenrir.6183:

[…]
edit: this is what i’d call a typicall d/d roaming killer build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoYVlUmaO3eS6E/JFy2jKUnIKOFOFSpVgm6KgVA-jUCBYLCiUgg0HQEBAJPFRjtNoIasqFYqSER1eDFRrGA-w
[…]

Did you really just link a WvW d/d build with 20 shadow arts and the “Hidden Thief” trait?
Not even talking about the godawful equipment choice.

Hmm ? Can’t read ? Need me to put stuff in bold ?
typical d/d roaming killer build
roaming killer

I didn’t say it was a zerg or anything else build. The guy was complaining about stealthy thieves, this is one of the builds that allows a lot of stealth. It’s a shame that most people complaining can’t even read and/or give any argument against stealth other than “OMG HE DISAPPEARED!!11!1”

Iluth.6875:

Most classes who choose to go GC have survivability problems, thieves have a class mechanic which allows them ignore damage mitigation or health as a valuable stat. All other classes need to take survivability into account, and make a delicate balancing act when it comes to figuring out how much damage to bring to the table and how much damage mitigation.

You’re delusional. Being in stealth does not mean you’re not going to take damage. Just stun or keep hitting. The thief going stealthy doesn’t mean he has disappeared, he’s still pretty much in the same position, even with the +50% run speed, than when he was there earlier.
Keep hitting and keep using your skills.
What don’t you understand in this ? A zerker thief has 12/13k hp, it dies almost instantly if you focus on him.

Saying it won’t make it magically become true. Either provide some proof/arguments to back up this and you won’t make a complete fool of yourself.
Thieves have NO advantage over other classes. They clearly lack good AoEs, and are weak against conditions. Stealth is pretty fun but it doesn’t provide any kind of protection…stun the thief and he’s pretty much as good as dead if no stunbreaker is up (zerker assumed here).

edit: this is what i’d call a typicall d/d roaming killer build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoYVlUmaO3eS6E/JFy2jKUnIKOFOFSpVgm6KgVA-jUCBYLCiUgg0HQEBAJPFRjtNoIasqFYqSER1eDFRrGA-w
Learn about its strength and its weakness and improve yourself. When you have done so, and know what you’re talking about, come back.
Honestly, the best way to beat a thief is actually having played one (but that can be said for every class).

This is crap.
You now use your whole supply instead of deciding where to use it. So it might be faster (is it anyway ? haven’t tried, most likely won’t) but you’re forced to use all your supply on only 1 thing. No more keeping 2 or 4 supps for a ram after repairing something just a bit. No more just repairing the gate/wall so it comes back up and keeping the rest of your supply.
And as others have stated, most siege are up in a flash already anyway. Not sure what those ranks are going to achieve. Probably nothing since no one is going to take them.

Iluth.6875:

Thieves are badly balanced in wvw. This is not a difficult concept for anyone to grasp, aside from thieves.

My main is not a thief yet i don’t understand what you mean. My main is a ranger, i also play a warrior…and very rarely a thief. Thieves are at a big disadvantage in wvw when specc’d for 1v1 (obviously). So the ones that you keep complaining about are not badly balanced for wvw, they just specialized in killing idiots that can’t stay with other guys. On a gigantic map. With guards everywhere, towers, keeps.
Just think about it. Why were you there in the first place ? You died ? You should have rezzed and formed a group to get back to the zerg / tower/ keep / whatever objective you were fighting for. You’re alone ? Don’t complain if any player specc’d for 1v1 kills you then.

Dude…it should be obvious. Do it on yourself. That way the thief can’t approach, so either he does it and gets hit or he goes away. Win/win.

Sorry if i’m a bit rude but i’m tired of those endless “NERF THIEF” threads. So when i see trolls ruining a perfectly fine thread like this one, i get angry.

Yes, don’t go zerker or you won’t be tagging much. Worse, you’ll tag, die, then see bags around you you can’t loot.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Yes they were co-ordinated, that doesnt change the fact they had a HUGE benefit with how Broken the class is. When you can down someone in SECONDS and be right back into stealth within 2seconds that is broken. You can deny it as much as you want, doesnt change it.

The game shouldnt require EVERYONE going Bunker to stop themselves getting killed by Thieves just because Anet are to lazy to fix it, But this is Anet they are renowned for being awful at this sort of thing, thought they would have learned from GW1 – i guess not.

Gibberish. How is that broken when you take damage anyway. It’s not like being in stealth grants invicibility or something. Just throw down some AOE, traps, wells, whatever your class has as a mean to fight this. And in case you haven’t noticed yet, this game wasn’t made with headless roaming in mind but coordinated action.
Be it pvp or wvw, you’re not supposed to go alone (well it obviously happens more in pvp but this is a different case). Why are you fighting a thief, alone, when you could be with some friends, fighting over a tower, capturing camps, defending towers or keeps, etc. ?
You need to understand what the game is about, and stop roaming aimlessly like a headless chicken. Thieves are mostly roaming because a zerker d/d thief will be pretty useless in a zerg or in a tower/keep fight. They have few builds that are really useful in wvw, so they just want to kill some people. Hell thief was my first character and i only use him for roaming.

edit:
My main character is a ranger.

Sunflowers.1729:

Surbrus.6942:

Sunflowers.1729:

Unless you are squishy (or not running solo), you have a snowball’s chance in hell of bursting me down before I stealth again and run away if things go wrong.

So what? In an objective based game type (WvW), sending the enemy running with their tail between their legs is a win.

But I’m just saying that unless you are squishy (which the OP is saying not to do), then you will never beat me.

Doesn’t have anything to do with objective-based games or anything – that’s a different topic, and the Thief forum has already shown me that they respond to all arguments with ‘L2P noob’ and insults. So I will not bother with arguing this point.

I’m not squishy and i can beat a thief. It’s called “using conditions”. Stop trying to be 1337 and put some oil on the fire the stealth is generating. Thieves are going to end up badly nerfed if this goes on (whiners + socalled leet players).
Nice post OP.

Zikory.6871:

But the first person to hit 250k kills was a staff Guardian so they are very good as well (This point is debatable because this person was a very active commander in a very active WvW guild)

This is not the reason. The reason is guild vs guild duels killing each other again and again in order to cheat the system.
Anyway, necros do very well yes, but some other classes have great tools as well. A trap ranger can also tag a lot of people (the best probably being GS/traps but can’t tell since i play axe/torch which is also pretty efficient with aoe and 3hits on #1).
Obviously any class that has a lot of aoe abilities will tag easily. However is it really that important ? I think being useful in the zerg is more important, you should not make a character with the goal of having lots of bags…

1. No nerf.
2. No nerf.
3. No nerf.

Don’t use sword if you don’t like it. Stop asking for changes on weapons when you don’t like them, use other weapons instead.

Einlanzer.1627:

I think the aesthetics for the other races or spot on (except maybe Asura head size), but for some reason I can’t get behind the Norn. Actually it’s not for “some reason”, it’s for a very specific combination of reasons.

1.) The males look too much like overly-exaggerated humans. The Norn male would be much cooler if it looked either much less like a human or much more like a human. The body shapes are just fugly and way too cartoonishly exaggerated. They should either only be moderately bigger than humans or have an altogether different appearance from humans, if not both.

2.) The females look more like human females than the human females do and very little like the norn males. This is mostly due to the fact that they have similar proportions to a human while the male’s proportions are cartoonish (extremely top-heavy), like a caricature rather than an actual person. Again, it’s just skewed. They should look like winter-hardened giants and not just regular human women.

Yeah, well, that’s just like…your opinion, man.

mistt.3698:

all we know that we are not special at anything,not high burst dmg , no def or crazy survivability nothing … we are ok with all. but let me tell you something that ranged me out today arenanet you just Nerf us all the time and other classes(warriors) getting fame from you !! today i went wvw … usual i can 1v1 ppl or atleast get them to closely die .
but now what warrior just came and kitten d me with 2 spells : long bow for immobolize and stupid a hundred blades got me killed in less then 2 secs … what is that are you kidding on the rangers ?? arenanet. warriors can kitten us in 2 secs + to all that i have done protection shout and pet died with me LIKE WTF???? give us something there is nothing much in a ranger nothing our weps are with pure skills maybe sword for evading nothing more ..

Try something else next time…i don’t know…like moving ? And/or actually using your skill slots. Also remember to equip a weapon.

Terrible, terrible idea.
Why should you limit the number of players playing the game ??? If it was possible, i’d love to have limitless maps. Queues are @ around 2 hours on my server

Aytchmo.6019:

I love checking out everyone else’s awesome Norn, so I thought I would share mine

Very nice ! Not too revealing while remaining sexy… (and probably deadly ^^).

Update on my warrior (yes, he hit 80 ^^).

kitten , that new beard would have fit my elementalist perfectly Don’t feel like remaking him even though he’s low level.