Guild Wars 2

@Frostflare
Thieves do give themselves away. Refuge: our long stealth cooldown. This pretty much paints a giant red bullseye on the ground that says THIEF HERE! Most skilled players have, or are learning to target these with extreme prejudice. Getting yanked or blown out is starting to become a common thing for me. As for the rest of our stealths they only last about 3 seconds. The problem with you not seeing us before we are able to re-stealth is mainly due to the culling issue. It is true there are some very skilled thieves out there who can time the stealth end timer almost dead on with a CnD hit, but honestly very few thieves can do this. This is why the culling/rendering fix needs to go through before anyone even thinks about touching stealth.

As for your idea about seeing numbers when you damage a thief… well that would pretty much make stealth pointless. However this already exists in another sort. Chain skills (the same button that has 2-3 different abilities) will chain through its attacks which means when you hit a stealthed thief you will know it. Sorry if your class doesn’t have one of these.

And lastly taking damage reveals thieves. This would crush any hope a thief would have in a group fight. It would remove our only defense and in zerg vs zerg match no one would ever use a thief. No one would ever use a thief on tower siege. The only thing a thief would be good for is roaming around and ganking solo players. (which correct me if I am wrong is the very complaint everyone is having here?)

The sad fact of the thief is that it lives and breathes because of stealth. And the only way you will ever be able to change it or nerf it is if they make thieves stronger defensively in some other way. Any nerf to stealth would crush this classes ability to function.

If Revealed’s timer could grow then you would simply see more thieves running pure glass cannon and “1 shotting” everyone. Stealth is the only defense a thief has. All this change would do is punish those thieves who choose to not go glass cannon and walk a different path.

To give an example of what this change would do bunzy how about every time you swap attunement while in combat the recharge on it grows by 2 seconds?

I hate it when people complain about things they don’t fully understand. So many posts about how this is OP and that is OP. And how if they could no longer do this or that then we would be balanced.

If people would take the time to play a thief, level it up and really play it they would not only figure out how limited our playing style as a thief can be but also how to counter a thief.

You know in group play thieves are one of the lowest desired classes for group makeup. We offer next to nothing to help our group and our AoE is sad unless we are standing right on top of them. We are a low HP squishy class that relys on stealth to keep us alive. Hell if we were to go into full soldiers gear (power tough vit) We would have 20k hp, and about 3k armor. We have no block mechanic like the other melee characters do and our only source of damage mitigation is through dodge.

If you are fighting a good D/D ele killing it is near impossible as a thief. The reason being that they can just out run you when they want to and escape. You can chase them across the map if you like but honestly is the kill really worth it?

As for in a duel if they stick around, ambush trap and thieves guild help out a bit between their blind and scorpion wire you can put a damper on some of their mobility and if you are lucky put them on the ground long enough to score some good blows enough to drop them. Their whole build is built to take a beating, the good thing is that they generally don’t do much damage in return.

Scorpion wire and trip wire are also good options in a duel with them.

People make mistakes and when you want something built fast people don’t check the names of things before building. They are not the first group of people to screw up nore will they be the last.

Rangers…. because no one ever complains about them. That makes them very annoying to me.

Honestly though its not the class that makes something annoying its the skill of the player in my case. Rarely can some random thief or mesmer kill me 1 on 1 unless im auto running and checking the TP or something lol. Granted I play a thief so I guess i might be somewhat immune to the annoyingness (is that a word?) of thieves.

Chipperz.2594:

Loving this Double teaming from SOR and BG, it just makes the game so much more fun, Does it seriously take SOR and BG to double team Ioj to take us out LOL at choooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

We are hitting BG just as hard as we are hitting IoJ. Take a look at their boarderlands.

GekoHayate.2451:

Ahh yes, you aren’t running away your advancing in the opposite direction. Because you are so good. What are you defending? Your wallets from the eminent repair bills?

Sacre bleu.

No but I dare say defending a tower or keep comes before farming your bodies for bags. Only scrub guilds would let a tower go undefended when they can easily break off and go help.

Well this post is fairly long, seems everyone is putting their two cents in. I might as well too I guess. I would like to reply to some other posts but honestly there are so many here with good or bad ideas that I would probably break the character cap before I even finished so….. Ill bypass that little bit.

One thing that gets me about the thief is how constricted I feel. We have very good single target ability which makes us ideal for scouting and harassment, which in turn generally gets us a lot of dirty looks and griping. However the one field I feel thieves have something to be desired in is our grouping abilities. We have every combo finisher in the game which is/can be nice. But I honestly don’t feel we really bring much to the table for a group. We are really a lone wolf class. We can be in a group we don’t hurt it any. But really when was the last time I heard someone screaming for a thief?

I feel that our shortbow while decent for aoe is slow and clunky most of the time. It has its uses but its nothing special. And one thing that really surprised me is the sheer lack of synergy this weapon has with our class. We have almost no traits or abilities that improve the shortbow in anyway. Infact if the shortbow was not our only real source of AoE I wonder if anyone would use it at all.

Another thing I find shocking is how few weapons we can actually use. I know a lot of people have been asking for a Rifle/Longbow skill setup and I myself would love to see one of these. (preferable with a bit of AoE so we are not confined to shortbow as one of our weapons) There are also the options of maybe allowing us to use swords in our offhand and maybe even being able to use axes or 1h maces.

There are several utility skills I think could use some love too. While I think all venom skills a bit weak considering their cool down I can see spider and devourer venom being somewhat useful. However skale and ice drake venoms are pretty much worthless. Trip wire, needle trap and shadow trap I almost never see used. I think they are very good skills but for the most part don’t really fit the thief playing style very well. I also think infiltrator’s signet could use a bit of love as well. It is a decent stun breaker/shadow step but we already have other skills/abilities for that.

I think i speak for most classes in that our underwater combat seems…. well weak. It takes me 10x longer to kill someone underwater than it ever would on land. And for me as a thief the playing style is such a drastic change. We have poor stealth ability under water and trying to melee anyone in water PvP is a joke.

My last request is more or less for all medium armor wearers in that we would like some better looking non trench-coat style chest pieces.

I find P/V/T gear to be great in WvW while running with zergs or coordinated groups. You can still put out good damage and you will not be the one who goes down and rallies 20 enemies after a good bomb.

Keep in mind that with the sacrifice of crit chance/crit damage/condition damage on your gear your dps will not be something to drool over. You will have to get use to fighting longer and using your useful yet limited tanking ability right.

I use full soldiers armor with full knights trinkets. This gives me about 16k hp and just under 2900 armor. I rarely take more than 1-1.5k damage from any single shot. Warriors kill shots hit for around 3-5k depending on how geared out the warrior is. But keep in mind 16k hp is still pretty low at 1k damage per hit that is still only 16 hits. You are not godlike, more like a wooden wall vs a paper wall.

Cover Girl.2580:

Three hours old and this thread is heading to a lock. :/

Anyone know the world record for fastest locking on a WvW post?

Anyway, to those of you who are all anti Indo… I have to laugh at you all. Cant you guys see hes just trying to get people fired up and fighting each other in WvW. You have no idea how boring it is when there is no competition to fight. In fact I should see if I can find some videos of the stupid things people were doing last week because they were bored.

We had a half naked zergs running around killing other (slightly out manned) zergs. Hell even tonight we decided to take several merchant breaks in the middle of fighting BG on their boarderland just to sell bags. We even built 2 flame rams in the open field to protect him. (hey you never know who might want to try and knife your merchant in the back am i right?)

The sheer fact of it is Indo states the facts and invites other guilds to Guild Vs Guild and to come to their boarderlands because they want a challenge. They slaughter pugs like they are nothing and most guilds for that matter too. If TW is running away its probably because they have something more important to defend or its part of some ploy. They are by far the best open field guild I have ever seen and I think they like the challenge of fighting other real guilds rather than a bunch of scrub pugs.

Having utility abilities on our weapons allows us to be more free with our ability skill bar.

With the exception of specific spike builds that require the stacking of venoms or haste for example. We really do not require any of our utility skills. They are merely quality of life improvements. Take shadow refuge and signet of shadows for example. Neither are required for any build yet both are taken by many thieves just because they make our life easier. We are lucky in that we can do this. And it is thanks to the utility in our weapons. I don’t believe any other class in the game can count themselves as being so lucky.

Most classes bring something special to the table. Thieves are still very good scouts/harassment characters. You can solo take camps and stop yaks from coming in. It gets a bit boring playing by yourself though I feel you there. I spent two, three hour sessions with a half hour break between them doing nothing but stopping yaks from getting into garrison and northern towers so that my server would have paper gates/walls to break through later that night. We ended up taking everything and handing fully upgraded towers over to our night crew only to have them lost by morning

There is a lot of team work that even zergs can take advantage of. The problem is when a zerg does take advantage of them they instantly become over powered and people complain about them (take portals for example they are something a mesmer is well used for). There are lots of other skills that have likewise been considered OP because they are used in zergs.

I am not worried about the whole cap point nerf as a thief I thought it was wrong to begin with, but like every other thief I used and abused it. Now its one less trick we have, and for good reason.

As for your example of being able to scale walls I just don’t see this working out. Taking 5 minutes to climb a wall no one would ever do it. Because taking a small team with catapults to knock the wall down would most likely be faster and easier. And if they were to speed it up it would just become over powered and people would find a way to abuse it. For example what if you had a mesmer stay dead inside a keep you failed to take, or just lost. Then later have a thief come along and scale an obscure wall somewhere and res him. This would simply lead to too many exploits.

That being said that doesn’t mean there are not other (perhaps more balanced) ideas out there, not only for thieves but for all classes)

As a person who spends about 85-90% of their time in WvW I don’t think I have any choice but to not get a Legendary/Ascended item.

Sure I could go farm, could save up 800-1k gold and buy most of it…. but I have much more fun in WvW than in dungeons or fractals. I would like to see a WvW path for these items. I have no problem with grinding out a bit as long as its in a format I enjoy. And with any luck the Anet crew will figure that out and put something in for us.

Red = Dead. Doesn’t matter what server they are. You can sort em out as youre looting your bags.

The way the servers are now are balanced. Changing the faces you see every week means very little if the games are chaos because a team gets pushed up into a bracket it cannot compete in or out of a bracket it barely lost in only to dominate the lower bracket.

Take a look at last weeks scores there was only 1 bracket that had a major blow out. Sure some servers lost by a decent margin and you are pretty much stuck in place week after week but isn’t it more fun playing against servers you have a chance at fighting rather than having almost every bracket being a blowout?

55 ranger? Invol + confusion is an evil combo for anyone stupid enough to not only attack with confusion but to try attacking someone who cant even take damage.

Though I have to admit even without that this build looks like a lot of fun. Great condition build with all that poison, bleeding, cripple, fire, and it goes without saying confusion. How effective is this build in long drawn out fights or back to back fights? I see in your video a lot of your kills are with you having less than 10 stack on your weapon which I take as you die a lot as well?

There is nothing that ties the maps together. Taking a point on any map does not effect any other. (other than maybe how your enemies play against you)

I just blow through the puzzles no point in killing people. Puzzles are the best reward:time spent ratio in wvw. Every second I spend fighting people reduces that and it helps my team very little.

Some might say it’s less siege for the enemy but honestly that’s a worthless ideal. While you spend 4 hours camping a jumping puzzle with 10-20 people your team up in the real world is getting farmed for badges because they have 10-20 less people there. You want to camp EB JP go ahead. I’ll go to the BL JP and do them in a blink of an eye and get 6 blue prints everyday no problem while you waste people guarding the lowest reward:time spent ratio JP.

This would only make matters worse in WvW. All this would do is give more power to which ever server has more people active at the time. More people active means this is more likely to be available. It also means that attacking forces could spawn right outside the keep they are trying to take or defenders spawning inside the keep they own. There would no longer be home field advantage (so to say) on boarderlands. Very few guilds would ever be pushed out of Hills (because of the lords room design) and trying to take Stonemist would be a joke unless you attack when they have no one online.

You could always put a contested timer on it like waypoints but then…. whats the point you can already buy waypoints for defense now all you are doing is buffing attackers even more.

Another thing is these would have be big clunky and easy to spot otherwise they would just be abused as another way to ninja towers/keeps.

Little white afro asura from Icoa is the most guilty though I have spotted at least 3 other mes doing it. (since I cant see his name any more I cant very well report his name) But I have no respect for Icoa guild. He has beened reported about 100 times at the very least in the last hour so with any luck Anet will be able to sort him out.

I know for a fact those were running with him were well aware of his actions as they actually tried to distract us while he did it. In any case the way this is being done has also been reported by many people and I expect anet to fix it (hopefully soon)

Now… we can keep talking about how cheap they are being or we can discuss more interesting topics. How about them bears?

@Lokheit
The way I use ambush trap is i get right next to them and move with them (while stealthed when possible) Then turn my char 90 deg to one side and strafe with them and drop it right on top of them the trap will trigger instantly no luring needed. Once in a while they will catch me off guard and do something unexpected but that’s when I lure them back over it much like you would at range. I have to be in melee to do damage anyway and that’s just a good of time as any to drop it you get pretty fast at doing it it and its just a flick of the wrist.

Good to see someone else using it though

I do WvW mostly. I see a lot of praises here for P/D and rightly so it is a very effective build. However I personally play thief to be melee most of the time if you are like me maybe you will like my build.

I run a might stacking backstab build.
0/30/25/15/0
Traits: Crit-1-3-6(or12 if you like 100% crit wile stealth) Shadow-5-8 and Acro-2

You gain 2 Stacks of might when you stealth 1 stack when you roll (2 if you eat bowls of orrian truffle meat stew) With 2 runes of either fire or hoelbrak and 4 runes of the other you gain 40% might duration + 15% from acrobatics making it 55% longer might duration. I fight most people with 10-15 stacks of might very possible to get it even higher though if you are good about stealthing and rolling a lot.

For gear I run Power/Toughness/Vitality with knights trinkets. You could also go for valkyrie trinkets if you like for a little more vit with less toughness and extra crit damage. (mainly ideal if you plan on running 100% crit wile stealth)

As for my skills I run a “brothers in arms” setup which is a little different than most thieves in that I use ambush trap. (then signet of shadows and shadow refuge as the other skills) Then thieves guild as my elite. The reason I use ambush trap is because I am already in melee range so dropping this on top of an enemy is not that hard. And the thief that spawns is fairly beefy and does good damage. Not to mention they are annoying as hell with their blinds and scorpion wire. If you run a human thief you also get the added perk of looking like them so they fool a lot of people. (not as effective as mes clones because of their names but still a distraction none the less)

EDit: I forgot to say how I play.
I use this setup mainly as a harassment build solo assaulting camps, keeping dolyaks from getting to towers/keeps and running scouts and busting 5 man ninja teams. It is more of a lonewolf style of play and is only fairly effective in zerg play. If you plan on running with a zerg I would use a shortbow mostly rather than D/D use lots of rolls and stealth when you can to keep might stacks up and you will still hit pretty hard with the shortbow.

I leveled D/D and P/P (swapped to a shortbow for events)

First thing you need to keep in mind while leveling your thief is that it is not a warrior or guardian you have to move constantly and dodge a lot. If you use D/D Death blossom is pretty much your main ability even 1 on 1 just because of the evade. You will also need to learn your threshold for fighting things don’t pull 10 things and expect your healing and heavy armor to compensate as a thief has neither really. Learn to use stealth to escape bad pulls and or bad respawns.

The biggest problem you will probably face (unless things have changed) is doing the storyline. At level you will have to be careful as it is easy to get overwhelmed by lots of adds. If you can find a leveling buddy it will help a lot, if not get use to taking the story quests at your own pace don’t try to rush it because you are not interested in whats really going on or you have already done it before.

Stiv.1820:

If you are keeping 7 guys busy in sPvP then you are not playing competitive people. If you are talking WvW the change doesn’t apply there.

Hmmm guess your right just went into wvw and the numbers don’t change. Sucks to be a sPvPer I guess.

I use blinding power while scouting just as an extra escape ability in case I run into a zerg that doesn’t render. Though most of the time if I am planning on fighting I drop it in favor of something else.

Laika.8795:

Fixeon.5076:

Never kept 7 guys busy while killing them all one by one slowly?

Nope. Pretty sure you haven’t, either. The stupidity involved on your target’s part is too great to overlook, I’m affraid. Furthermore, as others have stated, nerfing the damage as a fix to you exploiting the culling issue was not the goal here.

Good try, though.

Give it a shot, you probably wont be able to kill any one any more but this is what you do. Your team wants to take… lets just say hills as an example. They are going to be attacking north gate. You head down to lowlands and pick on the camp (if your build allows it try to solo cap it) if people come along back up the road a bit and pull them out of range of the guards then keep ducking in and out of stealth using CnD, when they try to run off chase them down and put heavy spike damage on them and either kill them or get them to engage you. As soon as they engage you you start CnD ducking again. A fly is very annoying when it keeps landing on your arm even if it really isnt hurting you. You can build up a lot of people looking for you. They start to aoe you move off to the side let your stealth fade and start emoting at them get their attention. They charge you down you cloak again.

Dacromir.6207:

Fair enough. That’s at least a valid argument for why CnD might need a change. However, a damage nerf does nothing to change this. As a delaying tactic, CnD/perma-stealth has not changed one bit. The only thing that has changes is its damage.

True and I shouldn’t have said it wasn’t to nerf S/D as it effects any build that uses CnD in any way.

Mrbig.8019:

Fixeon.5076:

CnD nerf was not ment to nerf D/D it was ment to stop thievs from whittling down people by only using CnD and staying near perma invis while doing so.

Pls, delete this post, i don’t want to believe somone said something this silly.

Never kept 7 guys busy while killing them all one by one slowly? You would be surprised at how effective it was. I use to keep 10 people defending something stupid because they couldn’t kill me and every time they would try to leave I would make myself a threat to them. 1 person keeping 10 people busy and killing them is insanely OP.

EDIT: It was also very effective at taking out people on siege.

CnD nerf was not ment to nerf D/D it was ment to stop thievs from whittling down people by only using CnD and staying near perma invis while doing so.

Stacks are insanely easy to break if you have a coordinated group of people. If you dont…. well maybe you should tell everyone to stack up too and you guys and play pillar wars?

Sarrow.2785:

Stealth is fine IMO. It costs half our normal ini bar to cloak and dagger. They already nerfed it with the 3 second debuff. Best wait until the rendering is fixed before any changes here.

Exactly

You cant hit with backstab without getting the revealed debuff which lasts for 3 seconds. It is impossible to stay perma invisible wile using backstab. The only way to go around the revealed debuff is to wait until your stealth is just about to drop and time CnD to hit after you pop out of stealth (or shortly after). You are complaining about the wrong skill in your thread topic.

And if you are talking about the fact that you cant see thieves who backstab you for seconds after he does so that is due to culling/rendering which is a game engine problem and effects all stealth.

" It’s not that it does too much damage its that the stealth mitigates any risk of the build."

So…. I am trying to figure this out. You say here that stealth mitigates any risk. I say don’t use stealth and see how well you do. And you say your not saying not to use stealth? Whahhh?

So leaving aside that you are simply trading hiding in stealth for stun locking people… I believe this is about how OP backstab is. (unless I miss read the title?) Go D/D and lets see how long you live without stealth.

So….. lets just say thieves don’t have stealth any more. How do you plan on living? You have a thief. I challenge you to go into wvw when its busy and never use stealth once.

And lets just say you’re saying that chaining stealth is the OP part of being a thief…. OK now lets run another test. You can only use your heal “hide in shadows” as your stealth. Now go kill them tiger. And do me a favor fraps it and post it so we can see how well you do.

If I stab you in the back will you still respect me in the morning?

Honestly I think people get too frustrated by good thieves to respect them. Though I have to say mesmers can be frustrating too if they are good and I can respect them.

30 people? Stack up spam AoE, use AoE pulls and Roots sooner or later he will have to get close to you or give his position away with a refuge/smoke ring.

I agree this should not be possible but for the time being you have to deal with it and there are ways of dealing with it.

There is a difference between a zerg and karma trains.

And sorry bunzy but that is not a zerg lol. 4vs 10 is hardly bad odds if the 4 people know what they are doing.

As for 5 mans taking towers these are called ninja teams in tier 1/2 and they rarely work unless people are too busy taking something more important. As a thief scout I destroy 5 man ninja teams. If you catch them before they put their siege down you can pop thieves guild and an ambush trap on them and do enough damage to their siege that they cant even build it fully; if you don’t kill it outright. And if they do have it down you call it in and kill the operator or wound him badly an he will pull off it. They all chase you and no one is running the siege. You buy your team valuable time at the very least. If they are bad players you might even kill them all. And that’s if there is no siege inside that is able to hit them.

And lets keep in mind that these 5 man teams only work because no one is defending. If there were no zergs running around people would be spread out more and more than likely these 5 man teams would encounter more resistance.

I am curious. To all of you who say zergs are bad and should never exist. How do you plan on taking Towers and keeps with…. lets just say 10 people?

10 people is about the cut off size I would say for a non “zerg” group. So… with 100 supplys how do you plan on taking an upgraded tower? You could drop 2 rams…. that might take you… I don’t know 5 minutes to get in? By which time a scout will have seen you called in the attack and at least 5 people will have shown up in the tower. At which point if there is any siege (which there most likely will be) they will slaughter you.

Zergs are required because they give you options. With 30-40 people running around you can build 3 rams, set up a defensive line to block incoming and nuke down people and siege on walls.

If everyone was to play defensively and put 5 people in every tower nothing would ever get done. With good siege in place a tower should be able to defend with 1:3 odds easy. I might even go so far as to say 1:5 if the people inside know what they are doing and there is good siege/supply at the ready.

How to 2v2 thieves.
Step one. Find a tower to hide in
Step two. Find the brightest corner in said tower.
Step three. Put your back to that corner and pray to whom ever you pray to that the gate will stay closed.

You know… I have looked this post over a few times and I have come to the conclusion that this is broken… The thief is doing far too little damage it should be 16-18k not 6-8k. What do you guys think? After all if I had stealth I wouldn’t bother stabbing anyone. I would jump on their back yank back their head. Then slit their throat right under their helmet strap.

I think there are different levels of good commanders. There are commanders who can lead people. And there are commanders who can lead leaders.

A good commander who can lead people will be fast thinking, creative and seemingly in control of situations that are out of his/her control. They have a good knowledge base on strategy and movement. And they will know how to keep people moving and rallied up.

A good commander who leads leaders will be very good at thinking of the bigger picture. For example knowing that sometimes letting one commanders team die as a distraction while another commanders team takes something else is sometimes required. What is more is that they must have the respect of their fellow commanders and leaders otherwise they will never get the cooperation they need. So having good people skills and learning to persuade people is almost a must.

New post old complaints, half of them wrong to begin with. The problem with WvW is people like you who don’t take the time to understand it to begin with. Next you will be complaining that your fire spells don’t set wooden walls and gates on fire.

1. Doors and walls can be upgraded to make them harder to kill this will buy you time (unless you’re facing a team who brought 6-10 golems with them) 3 Super rams can take a gate down fairly fast but most zergs just drop normal rams.

2. Um? I think you mean towers not keeps. And secondary entry points = walls.

3. Players cant damage walls only siege can. And I honestly don’t see a problem with players being able to kill a door by hand. It’s far too easy to kill siege after everyone zergs past and then put 10 supply into a gate to close it.

4. Um yeah there is no cap on AoE for siege.

5. Having swords means very little in the high tiers. Skilled players know how to avoid them. Swords work both ways they point zergs to trouble and they point out zergs. You cant have scouts everywhere all the time these swords are a lot like the NPCs calling for help.

I have to say as a player on SoR I was saddened by the fact that we had out manned buff 5 hours after reset on 2 battlegrounds. This “I don’t want to play vs the same people” bs is just stupid. I would rather play IoJ and SoS again than any server under our bracket. We smash them into the ground the first day and the rest of the week there is nothing to do.

Man up, skill up, and face the facts we cannot attract a better night crew if you guys act like 5 year olds when you don’t get your way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ru_rXq2LYg0

^ warrior doing even more damage with piercing from long distance. Any other questions?

We would have to see the fight to really explain what happened. My guess is he took a wild guess as to which way you went he hit you with CnD which stealthed him; this would have told him that he hit you he then followed it up with a backstab right away. Also your attack chain will go through the motions if you happen to hit someone with auto attack wile they are in stealth. I do things like this all the time. Just because you can’t see them doesn’t mean you should stop attacking.

I am trying to figure out how you go from chaindazing to stealth 10 feet away. Like i said we would have to see the fight to understand better.

Shortbow or dual pistols are a very good way level but not required by any means. If you want to go dual dagger then I suggest you get use to using leaping death blossom and your dodge a lot.

Keep behind enemies and keep moving when using daggers. A stationary thief is a dead thief.

So what you’re saying is that my Quaggan skin boots are not fooling anyone?

I think its fair now. Wile it is not realistic it is fair. They cannot hit you unless you are near the edge and you cannot hit them unless you are near the edge. Likewise AoEs can be arched over portions of the wall from the back side and their AoEs can reach the backside. Being able to kill people from a position where you cannot kill them means that Siege in those spots would make it near impossible to take that tower (or whatever). The only way that you would ever be able to take a tower would be to catch it with no defenders or treb it from max range.