Guild Wars 2

Unfortunately no. As it says in the credits the models used are not my work, I just placed them on the terrain to make it look like Divinity’s Reach. It was all based on what we knew a year ago, which means the map and a couple of screenshots.

I do remember trying to model a bear statue for Hoelbrak, but for some reason I just gave up. Anyway, I doubt Warcraft 3 could do as much justice to the other cities as it did Divinity’s Reach. Even with the models already made by someone else it was still a lot of work (over 100 hours).

Edit: Also note the reference to the Races of Tyria trailer with the flag and the music.

deriver.5381:

Not sure what you meant by that comment of yours but what I said was not based on opinion, it’s a fact, and a well documented one. An rare item is 88%, in terms of power, of what an exotic is.

So if you hit 80 with a full set of rares, when compared to another person with a full set of exotics he will be nothing more than 12% stronger.

(Obivously, I’m taking stats tailoring out of the equation)

And I never said it was based on opinion. I was trying to point out the fact that you won’t hit level 80 in full rares; it’s doubtful that even all the armor pieces will be full rare. So the difference will be quite significant when you switch to full exotics.

deriver.5381:

The power difference between rares and exotics is EXACTLY 12%, stop inflating numbers to make your point valid. It just makes you look stupid.

Oh, so you were full rare when you hit 80, including accesories, ring and necklaces. My fault then, I guess I was doing something wrong.

They are increasing dungeon rewards. reading is fundamental
You don’t get karma from dungeons. You have once again proven how uneducated your arguments are.

It only affects players who are going way past playing the game as intended. there are some bugs with it that are being fixed. Once it works properly, only the extreme farmers/grinders will feel it at all. That’s as intended in the game design, and falls right in line with the “play for fun, not for constant max rewards” philosophy.
They promised you could play the game however you wanted. If I want to farm 12 hours in the exact same place, then I should very well be allowed to do it.

This is an exaggeration, and obviously they are working on the bot issues.
That is why people report seeing more bots and bots every day. That’s why gold sellers are still around.

They are adjusting rewards…but again, read the first post in this thread. They are made to be done FOR FUN, as is the rest of the game. I would do them for zero reward…anything I get is gravy.
Well, I didn’t know doing the same thing a hundred times over can be as fun every time as the first time. Also, drop the chess argument, there’s more fun to doing something in the real world multiple times than in a virtual environment.

This contradicts your earlier statement about fixing the economy…since money sinks are required to keep inflation in check and keep the value in items
It doesn’t contradict my previous statement at all. Bots are destroying the economy, no the lack of money sinks. If anything money sinks make it worse.

This, again, provides a money sink which is necessary for a healthy economy. it also provides some minor consequences for playing badly…and is designed to let you know that you need to practice more or move to an easier area. If you are incurring high repair costs…this is an issue with your play, not the game.
Also a mechanic they were saying they felt wasn’t necessary. They were so proud about how the didn’t feel the need to punish people for dying. I guess they need to encourage you to use the cash shop somehow.

totally your personal opinion – some folks might say that having them character-bound provides more variety and longer-term play
Totally not my personal opinion. I remember the reactions on fansites when they changed it. Obviously, those reactions were only given a cynical response that by Crystin Cox, telling us how they did it so that we would get a sense of progression on each character. Again, ArenaNet telling us how to play the game even though they had been marketing it for years as the game where you can choose how to play.

So that everyone would have it in a month and then you’d complaint that there’s no meaningful rewards? Yeah, not a good idea.
I don’t care about showing off how good I am. I care about what my character looks like. I shouldn’t have to grind my backside off to get the look that I like. Also, there are meaningful rewards; they’re called legendaries.

You get no money for a bunch of things that they are either already working on, or are just bad and contradictory suggestions.
Among my suggestions you claim that there are things that:
-they are working on -> true;
-bad suggestions -> well, I guess the game was pretty bad a year or so ago, because my suggestions would revert the game to that state. It makes you wonder how, despite it still being so bad back then, there were less people complaining about it.
-contradictory suggestions -> just because you’re calling two of my statements contradictory doesn’t mean they are so. I said bots are destroying the economy, not the lack of gold sinks. Try harder.

Fozzik.1742:

Untouch.2541:

Why can’t it be both?

If you can figure out how to pull that off, I bet someone would pay you a lot of money.

-Make karma armor cost less;
-Remove the anti-farm code which doesn’t stop bots, but affects players;
-Look into fixing the economy that is being destroyed by bots;
-Make dungeons actually worth the time spent (which as you said they are looking into; I’m curious to see how it turns out);
-Reduce the waypoint travel cost;
-Remove the stupid armor repair mechanic;
-Make dyes account-bound;
-Reduce the insane cost of cultural armor.

Can I have my “lots of money” now?

Untouch.2541:

Why can’t it be both?

Because people with not enough time to play the game don’t want to get left behind and as such invent excuses like “Your reward is fun”.

@Fozzik How is that you know I rushed to 80? Well, I hate to break it to you, but I didn’t. I didn’t skip any vistas, nor any story cutscenes and read every single conversation during my personal story quests. I just happened to have a lot of time on my hands.

Furthermore, you say I don’t need to have exotics, but you have no idea as to what difference there is in strength between a character who just hit level 80 and a character in full exotics. None. Nil. Zero. I’ll tell you: it’s enormous. Also, how the hell can you know it won’t be a gear treadmill? Are you certain they won’t increase level with expansions? Can you foresee the future?

Moreover, how do you know how much karma and money you can build over time by simply playing for fun? Do you know what the rewards are at level 80? Crafting materials which a couple of weeks ago you could sell decently are now down to absurd prices because of bots. The only ones who are rewarded in this game are bots, yet fanboys like your good self seem not to care about it.

You’re telling me that cosmetics aren’t a necessity and as such the grind is justified. You’re telling me I’m expecting something ArenaNet never promised. Do you even know what ArenaNet promised regarding dungeon armors? 1 piece of armor per run. That’s 6 runs for a whole set. Do you know how many runs of the VERY SAME dungeon it takes to get a full set? 30-40. If you told me that after 30 runs you’ll still be able to do that dungeon for fun, I’d call you a liar.

So, instead of telling me to quit the game and instead of trying to divine the future for us, how about you get to level 80 first? And while you’re at it, stop distracting ArenaNet’s attention from our legitimate concerns, as players who have spent time at the maximum level, to your uneducated speculations about the future.

@Fozzik And how is it that you know endgame won’t be a treadmill? Have they actually released an expansion and they haven’t increased the level? What if they do just that? Will I have to pay 20 gold for my exotics again? Yep.

We don’t know if the game will be a gear treadmill. Sure, gear level might not increase with content patches, but if it does increase with expansions it’s still a treadmill. Thus, the only thing that matters are cosmetics and they’re the BIGGEST grind I have ever seen in an MMO. So how about you get to level 80 before stating that the game is not a grind?

Raging Bull.5048:

It’s fun for me to be rewarded and progress my character in the end game. Can I have my fun too, while you are having yours?

Agreed. Everybody likes rewards; the reason why some people defend the system as it is right now is not because they themselves don’t like rewards, but because they are afraid of being left behind due to others having more time to play than them. Just look at the first post in the “Thank You” thread and you’ll see what I’m talking about. Thus, they bring up the argument of playing for fun, when they themselves are still leveling, not knowing what it’s like doing the same Dynamic Zergs over and over again. As I said in a previous post, it wouldn’t surprise me if the same people that are now saying level 80 progression is fine (which is utterly, utterly moronic given that they have never experienced it) will be, a couple of months from now, about how it’s impossible to get a full karma set or a full dungeon set for someone who only plays 2 hours a day.

@Devildoc The problem is we’re trying to explain this to people who probably aren’t even close to hitting level 80, so they won’t understand. I suppose their thinking is that if they can’t play the game as much as others, the others should be dragged down in order for them to keep up. They have no logical arguments with which to dispute our concerns, so instead they go for the argument that reeks of stupidity: “Don’t like it, don’t play it.” But how about this? I like the game, but there are several things that need to change and not just to guarantee my enjoyment, but the game’s longevity.

You know what’s funny? The same people who are probably now playing casually because they don’t have the time will be the same people that, months from now (unless something changes) will complain about how long it takes to get karma for exotic armor, how much the waypoint travel and repairs cost and how hard gold is to come by.

All in all, I’m really sick of arguing about level 80 content with people who have hardly hit 40. That’s like discussing relativity with a 2-year old.

I’ve got something to look forward for tomorrow: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Tokens-Account-Bound-please/first

Scroll to Jon’s second answer.

I just hope there’s a build new coming (and as far as I’m aware there should be, because they’re removing mystic chests) and that this will be included in it.

Some of you may know this from the Guild Wars 2 Guru, but I guess that since the official forums are up I could also post this here. So, without further ado, I give you: Divinity’s Reach – a Warcraft 3 Rendering!

http://youtu.be/LT2CY9XtjsM
http://youtu.be/_q9fNNgiQlY
http://youtu.be/TjP-t1ksTB8

+1. There’s no knowing if on the server you’re transferring to the skill point you’re trying to get is bugged or not, so you might wind up stuck on another server and without getting the skill point.

JesterJeff.7236:

Hey. You replied to MY post. I did not “refute” anything you specifically said , so relax. In fact, the need to ask what level I am when the vast majority of content types are available from level 2(Ok, dungeons are level 40ish) is telling in itself.
You have fun too!

No, it’s not telling at all. By only playing up to level 20 you have no way to find out in-game (because you could check the wiki) about what karma event rewards are compared to karma armor cost, about what the gold earn-to-spend ratio is, about how much dungeon tokens you earn compared to what the armor costs and so forth.

Do you know how much level 80 Orr events it takes to get a SINGLE karma armor piece? 111, not taking into account boosts.

Do you know how many dungeon runs does it take to get a dungeon armor full set? 30-40.

Do you know how much dying once costs at level 80? Roughly 3 silver and 50 copper, considering waypoint travel cost and repair. Do you know how much a dynamic event at that level gives you? 1 silver and 80 copper. What about a renown heart? Roughly 3 silver. Oh, so if you die once you spend more than you earned from completing a heart? Yep.

All these are grinds, grinds they promised wouldn’t exist. These problems only start appearing around levels 50-60. That’s why your level is relevant to the discussion.

So, if you tell me that after doing 666 dynamic events in Cursed Shore in order to get a full karma set you’d still do the same events again, then I’ll say this is the game for you.

JesterJeff.7236:

“Out of curiosity, are you even level 80? Because if you’re not, you can’t possibly know how fun it is playing at that level. "
Nope. Not even close to 80. 5 characters in the late teens and early 20’s with over 160 hours played.

That’s what I wanted to know. The fact that you’re not even close to being level 80 gives you no right to dispute my concerns about that part of the game. When you’ve hit level 80 and spent some dozen hours playing at that level you can come back and bring arguments as to why it should stay that way. Until then, have fun!

garraeth.3267:

JesterJeff.7236:

I have to say I agree with the OP completely. In fact, I was trying to find an articulate way of saying this myself, so thank you for saying it for me.:)
This game is about playing the content. I LOVED Rift- until I realized that I would have to “hurry up” and get past the game to have any fun with those who either have the time or wish to blow through content to get to “the fun”.
I honestly think that the lack of a sub really frees the devs to make the game “fun centirc”, or the way they envisioned it. They don’t need to keep you playing! I know it is hard to grasp, but they don’t. They have already made a boatload of money and will continue to because, for a lot of us, the experience of playing IS the reward.. Basically, if you don’t like it, you are free to go. Try it out in six months or so. Might be more fun for ya. Might not. It does not matter. NO PRESSURE on us….NO PRESSURE on them.
If you like to “smell the roses”- like me- then this is the game for you. If you scoff at that, go play something else. Then, come back when an expansion come sout, and play it for two weeks before you get bored again.
I LOVE THIS GAME. Thanks for finally thinking of people like me when designing your MMO, ANet. There are many happy people out there who feel exactly as i do too.

I totally agree with the OP and JesterJeff.

If you’re looking for a WoW/Rift/SWTOR/SW/Tera successor, GW2 ain’t it. And I really hope they stay pure and never cave to people frustrated that it isn’t another WoW.

In addition to OP and JesterJeff, it seems a huge thing people just can’t seem to wrap their heads around is that the game is not built to grind in the same manner as a WoW-style game. For example: say you need mat X for whatever goal you have. Mob A in Zone drops mat X, so you sit in Zone forever grinding away killing Mob A. How boring. Why turn GW2 into that? But so many people are trying to do that by either playing GW2 like that, and/or complaining on the forums that they CAN’T play that way. It boggles my mind.

So many people complaining about how much karma they need and how hard it is to “grind” it in Orr. Then I go to Orr and see TONS of people sitting around waiting for DEs to spawn and then spending 5, 10, 20, + minutes running them over and over and waiting, waiting, waiting until the next cycle comes back around. When if they though outside the WoW-box, they’d realize that they could go do ANY DE in ANY zone and get karma – sure not 350, but 250 and spend 2 minutes doing the DE vs/ the 20 minutes they sit and wait around in Orr for the next cycle to come around.

I’m sitting on 110,00 karma and barely hung out in Orr. It’s not hard to get karma. I’ll have another 100k in a few days. And I hang out in ALL the zones – depending on how I’m feeling at the moment.

Of course, you shouldn’t be able to make money by standing in one spot and farming a certain crafting material. The only acceptable way of making money is by botting and hack-jumping to nodes across the map. I’m sorry if my inability of coping with the fact that I get punished for not being a hacker bothers you.

You know what the game feels like right now? A game made to discourage grinding and farming but which, at the last moment, had insane amounts of grinding added to it (the most common example: cultural and dungeon armors cost increasing tenfold since beta). They themselves were saying that every 1-2 dungeon runs you’d get a piece of armor. What changed?

JesterJeff.7236:

The reward is IN PLAYING THE GAME! I can “smell the roses” all I want. My brother can “power level” all he wants. Guess what? We can ALWAYS still play together on ANY character regardless of how much “work” either of us “put in”. He still has far more gold than I do, he still has far more skill options, etc for his “effort”. If I were getting paid instead of having paid for this game, you might have a point,
Besides, the point of this thread is that you have the option of playing MANY other games that will reward your time and effort in the way which makes the game fun for you. Why does this game have to follow that philosophy? It doesn’t, and the lack of a sub reinforces that. I love it.

Out of curiosity, are you even level 80? Because if you’re not, you can’t possibly know how fun it is playing at that level. After you’ve done the same event a couple of times you’ll dread having to do it again. MMOs are designed to be repetitive. There’s no way anyone could make an MMO otherwise. Sure, the leveling might have been fun, but once you’ve hit the cap and start doing the same thing over and over again, if there’s no reward, no goal to work towards, at some point you’ll get bored.

Games have a certain degree of replayability; games like Mass Effect or The Witcher are worth playing through a couple of times because of the variety in choices. Guild Wars 2 doesn’t offer as much choice as those games while leveling, so that part of the game doesn’t have much replayability (let’s face it: personal story choices don’t have as much impact as they claimed they would). So, how do you prolong the game’s lifespan? By using the endgame; but how? It’s obvious to everyone that you can’t have an infinite amount of endgame activities. This means you have to reward people in order to give a piece of content replay value. The game doesn’t currently do that.

You can say they already have your money so they don’t care about you playing. That’s wrong. They need people to buy their expansions, otherwise the game will die out. How do you make people buy expansions? Simple, you give the previous content replayability, so that they know the coming content will be the same. If you don’t do that, people might think that the expansion will be the same as the original content: play it for a couple of weeks then get bored and leave.

JesterJeff.7236:

I have to say I agree with the OP completely. In fact, I was trying to find an articulate way of saying this myself, so thank you for saying it for me.:)
This game is about playing the content. I LOVED Rift- until I realized that I would have to “hurry up” and get past the game to have any fun with those who either have the time or wish to blow through content to get to “the fun”.
I honestly think that the lack of a sub really frees the devs to make the game “fun centirc”, or the way they envisioned it. They don’t need to keep you playing! I know it is hard to grasp, but they don’t. They have already made a boatload of money and will continue to because, for a lot of us, the experience of playing IS the reward.. Basically, if you don’t like it, you are free to go. Try it out in six months or so. Might be more fun for ya. Might not. It does not matter. NO PRESSURE on us….NO PRESSURE on them.
If you like to “smell the roses”- like me- then this is the game for you. If you scoff at that, go play something else. Then, come back when an expansion come sout, and play it for two weeks before you get bored again.
I LOVE THIS GAME. Thanks for finally thinking of people like me when designing your MMO, ANet. There are many happy people out there who feel exactly as i do too.

So others shouldn’t be rewarded because you don’t have the time to play as much as them? If I invest more time and effort in the game than you, why should you and I be on equal footing? That’s like saying: I only work 2 hours a day but I want to be paid as much as the guy who works 8. If I have the time and resolve to farm, why shouldn’t I be able to make gold proportional to the effort?

Acewings.6872:

The OP seems to think it’s impossible for a game to be both Fun-centric AND Reward-centric. Apparently it’s not fun to earn things…

Well, if to them that’s not fun, they could just destroy the rewards. In the meantime, the rest of us will be enjoying our rewards and everyone will be happy.

Devildoc.6721:

Here’s a philosophy they will never conquer or beat:

EVERYTHING loses its fun when repeated over a dozen times. I think only sex remains fun after a few dozen times in a row that it requires to get dungeon sets. I think even hardcore drugs stop being fun by then and more about pure unadulterated addiction.

Challenging dungeons with friends is fun one… two.. maybe 3 times.. but after you know how to beat it like the back of your hand.. it’s farming, it’s not fun.

Gold needs to go up, at least give a good reward for a “daily explorable dungeon”

This! If they want us to do dungeons dozens of time in order to get the armor they should at least make them more rewarding. Same is the case with Dynamic Events. 1s 80c or whatever it is per event is a joke.

Yep, genuine players get ground into dust by the anti-farm code while bots prosper. Instead of doing what’s right and simply swing the ban-hammer all around, they put this mechanic in place which actually affects normal players, but not bots; thus, they can claim they have taken anti-botting measures even if those measures had no effect. This is what they call innovation in the genre.

Artorous.8573:

Faction Armor: Meant to be a rare skin used for transmuting. If you want to represent your faction then save up for it and do just that! Don’t complain about the cost. It is there to give you something to strive after. If you don’t think the price is worth it then go after something else.

Anti-Farm Code: If you don’t just run around with a zerg group then you won’t notice any change. Every time I do an event I get the full amount of exp/karma/silver. I get a healthy supply of drops. If you want easy exotics then you can get a full set off of the Trade Center for 10-20 gold. It’s that simple. Don’t complain because you can’t just go run around with a zerg group for a day and get full exotics with little to no effort on your part.

Teleport Hacking: Report them that way ANet can work on ways to fix the problem. WoW has them still and it’s been around for years and years. If it was a simple fix it would be fixed already. There are always going to be players out there that try and exploit things whenever they can. Sad people are sad.

Dungeon Rewards: If you are running around with a PUG and doing explorable modes then you’re going to have a painful trip and you’re going to spend a lot on repairs. If you are chain speed running them, trying to skip as much of the content in each dungeon as possible, then don’t complain when they nerf it. They want the unique skins to take some time to get that way everyone isn’t wearing them in less than a month. Take your time and run with a coordinated group of players and you will have an enjoyable experience with little to no downside. If you just want to run them over and over again to get your set so you can then come QQ on the forums about nothing to do, then by all means go to another game. The amount of time it takes to get any unique set is absolutely nothing compared to the first Guild Wars. ANet said, multiple times if I may add, before the game was released that Explorable Modes were not meant for Pugs, so if you’re running with a pug and failing then don’t come and complain on the forums. Get better instead of asking everything to be brought down to your level.

Bugs: If you are experiencing any bugs, report them so ANet knows about them and can fix them. Yes, they are annoying, but considering almost every day I log on I have a new patch that proves that ANet is working to fix the bugs as fast as they possibly can. No game is perfect and expect a MMO, of all genres, to be perfect upon release is just crazy.

When you come to the forums asking for X to be nerfed because it’s too hard or for core mechanics of the game to change to suit your play style, then expect to get hounded by these so called “fanbois/ys”. If you want game A to be more like game B then why did you start game A in the first place when you obviously wanted game B still.

I don’t want Guild Wars 2 to be WoW. I want it to be what it promised to be: a game that is fun to play. Such mechanics impede my enjoyment the game. Sure it might not bother some, but I doubt there’s anyone out there who actually finds the anti-farm code fun.

Rizzy.8293:

Because some people aren’t 80 and don’t fully understand the issues level 80s have with the current ingame tax but because they’re self centered and enjoy pushing their opinion onto others, they continue to talk like they know what they’re talking about.

For example saying you can attain exotic factions armour for 8g, when factions armours are rare not exotic.

I know it’s asking for a lot but I really wish some people would educate themselves before spewing.

Yes, it’s quite sad that we get flamed and called names just because we express honest concerns about the game, concerns which anyone who has spent a decent amount of time at 80 should have. Perhaps ArenaNet responding to our claims is a matter of time, perhaps they will never fix the issues we have. But by no means will I accept being told to just shut up and leave the game if I have any issues with it.

DusK.3849:

SHM

When 10 fanboys jump on a post that brings up a legitimate issue.

It’s not a legitimate issue if it completely changes a core aspect of the gameplay that a majority of the game’s players bought the game for and enjoy.

So asking for improved rewards for dungeons changes the core aspect of the game? How’s that? Oh, you would rather that dungeons feel unrewarding? Well, if getting rewarded for spending time in a dungeon is a problem for you, you could just destroy all the rewards that you feel you haven’t earned.

Also, asking for the removal of the anti-farm code is against the core philosophies of the game? How so? You have the cultural armor who costs ~120 gold, which means they meant for the money to be obtainable in some way. Loot is already scarce as it is (scarcer than in most MMOs), how is it better that it should diminish over time? No MMO I have ever played ever had such a mechanic and for good reason. If you want to stop botting you should permanently ban people who do it, not punish players with the genuine interest of making gold.

These are the concerns that I have seen most people here expressing, myself included. How is it that they are not legitimate? In truth, the fact that these issues exist goes against the core philosophy of the game which is innovation in the genre. Loot diminishing surely isn’t innovative. Unrewarding dungeons even moreso.

tolunart.2095:

Believe what you want. The whining is about seeking attention, not trying to communicate.

Why in the world would I want attention from you? Or from fanboys in these forums? Let me tell you something: I don’t. The reason why I keep expressing my genuine concerns about the game (which you call “whining”) is because I love the game and the promise that it showed and feel that it would be a real shame to let it be destroyed by terrible decision on ArenaNet’s behalf.

I know our “whining” affects your self-created idea that the game is perfect. Well, it’s not. If it were, there wouldn’t be so many people “whining” on the forums. However, there’s a simple solution to that: don’t read the threads whose title suggests a topic that might bother you.

I would never be here expressing the issues I have with the game if I downright hated it. Instead, I’d be off playing someone else. There’s no reason I’d waste my time trying to cope with the huge amount of fanboyism on these forums if I didn’t like the game.

@OP Having to do 50 runs of the same dungeons in order to get a full armor set is definitely casual-friendly.

Of course this isn’t priority. The priority is to stop players from getting too much karma or gold. Because a piece of karma armor only costs 42k.

Cezton.2415:

It’s modern day culture partially.

Cosmetic materialism dictates the lives of many. Without this dopamine rush many feel unmotivated and saddened by their experience.

“Fun” just doesn’t cut it for some people. They’ve lost touch with that side of their young life with regards to gaming. You can blame certain games for this and the way society is as a whole with regards to how people feel.

And what is it that is fun about doing the same dynamic events over and over again? What is fun about doing the same dungeons with dumb mechanics designed to kill you and in which you actually wind up spending more on repairs than you actually make? Dungeons are less fun than in WoW. I did the WotLK dungeons for 2 years without getting bored, whereas here I dread going back to dungeons like Honor of the Waves. On top of the fun that you would get in WoW dungeons you would also get rewards. So, I ask you then: in what way is Guild Wars 2 better than WoW?

You say GW2 is about fun. I say the game at level 80 is neither rewarding nor fun. The leveling is good, but once you’ve completed an area you’ll dread having to redo it on an alt.

I play games for fun. I play Skyrim for fun. Most dungeons there aren’t that rewarding. Sure there’s a chest at the end but it’s really not worth it. I do dungeons for the fun of killing draugrs or whatever else is in there.

I played the Mass Effect franchise for fun. I wanted to see the story unfold with my choices affecting it. I didn’t care about having the best armor. I usually wore the standard N7 armor.

I play the Witcher 2 for fun. I love seeing how the choices that my Geralt makes affect the world. Sometimes, I was under 100 orens. It didn’t matter because I was having fun. I was wearing the armor that I liked, wielding the swords that I liked.

There’s no fun to be had in Guild Wars 2 after you’ve hit level 80 and done the dungeons and the DEs a couple of times. Rewards are what keeps people playing and ArenaNet should understand that. Having DE caps and the anti-farm code really discourages people from playing. Because MMOs are designed to be repetitive, “fun”, after some time, only comes from rewards.

datheway.8364:

who said that GW2 is not a grind game? just look at the cost of karma gears and dungeon gears. now of course you don’t have to grind but it’s a mind game. trust me nobody runs the dungeon for fun. they all aiming for certain items that they like.

Of course. The people who are saying we should do the dungeons for fun are probably not even level 80 and they’re probably unaware of the insane cost of the dungeon pieces.

As the title says, I can’t get in because every time I open the client I get a connection error. Anyone else having a similar problem?

My thoughts exactly. ArenaNet and the people who defend them say we shouldn’t play the game for rewards, but for fun. But if you were to play for fun, with no thought to rewards, you’d get bored pretty fast. Dynamic events in Orr get boring really fast (where’s the fun in 30-40 people spamming AoE skills for 5 minutes?), dungeons, as you said, are horribly designed and not fun, while also being unprofitable due to dying a lot.

The truth is that, as it stands right now, doing almost anything at level 80 is unrewarding and not fun. Unless they change it to make DEs, killing mobs, dungeons more rewarding, I believe many people will simply leave after a couple of weeks at level 80.

Fortunately, I know enough synonyms for the profanity words that are filtered by the system. Thank you, Witcher 2 and A Song of Ice and Fire! -cackles maniacally-

deriver.5381:

You have to understand what they meant when they said that.

Are you required to farm just to get your top tier items? Yeah, I know you do, BUT it isn’t that much if you check what is the common pace of grinding these days on other mmos. Its not that much here if all you care about are your stat numbers.

They could have said the grinding exists but its nothing compared to all the other games out there, so in comparison, it’s pretty minimal here.

Now, the good looking equipement, yeah those are where the grind is… They are not required in any ways and are just there for those who decide to put the time and effort towards them. So, yes, there is grinding, and there is farming, they are just not required.

Now, about the anti botting system, I saw a dev posting its bugged somehow and people are seeing DRs anywhere, even if they don’t just farm the same please. The devs said it will be fixed and it is, in fact, a bug. After this bug is fixed, all you will have to do will be move between DEs to keep farming and the system will never tick to you.

Whether farming is required or not is subjective. If I want to get a certain look I’m required to farm. The anti-farm code shouldn’t exist, period. Loot is scarce as it is already. Diminishing it depending on how many you kill is even worse.

There’s no reason to defend the anti-farm code. It’s a stupid mechanic that doesn’t even do what it’s meant to do (which is to stop botting). We, the players, get less materials than the bots, then, when we sell them, we get even less money from them because there are already a lot of them brought into the market by bots. In a game which claims they don’t need to keep you playing because it doesn’t have a monthly fee, such limiting mechanics shouldn’t exist.

@deriver No MMO I have ever played has a cap on farming materials.

Edit: Also, you’re ignoring my mentioning of the fact that it was their philosophy that you would not be required to farm, but if you wanted to do it, you could. As it stand right now, you can’t. The only ones making money are bots and those who play the trading post (flippers). You can’t even sell what little crafting materials you earn from killing mobs at decent prices anymore. The most profitable way of making gold is probably leveling

deriver.5381:

@Gauradan because for some reason the quote button just vanished:

So, following your logic, if I wanted to fly, I could just come here and make complaining posts until they getkitten enough to ban my forever or add my flying skills ingame? Because, if I should be able to play the way I want, I should be able to do, you know, anything I want.

Why sticking so much to semantics to back up your opinion? It should be obvious that there is no way a game that allows people do play exactlly the way they want can be ever created, right? You will always be following rules and they will always limit your playstyle somehow.

As I said on my last post, you can say you didn’t like something that was changed as much as you want, and they can even agree with you and change something back, but saying that you aren’t being able to “play the way you want” is just stupíd as I can use this very argument to complain about just ANYTHING in this game.

I never said you should be able to do every possible thing. I was referring to the particular issue of farming, about which they said that if it was your thing to do, you could do it just as well as in any other game. You’re saying we should adapt, but how can you do that? If you want to buy karma armor and you’ve got an hour on your hands, you’ll only be able to farm for half of it (or whatever time it usually takes to hit the cap). The rest is a wasting. This doesn’t affect farmers only, it affects even those players who can only login for an hour or two a day.

And the argument that MMOs are ever changing doesn’t stand here. It was their belief that people with lots of time and less money (or less willing to spend money on gems) should be able to get gold by farming, while the people with money, but little time, could get gold by trading gems. Going against one of their core philosophies so early in the game’s lifespan is unacceptable to me, even if the decision was, like they claim, taken to discourage botting.

Furthermore, since the bots have already bypassed these mechanics and they proved inefficient, they should be removed as soon as the next patch. Otherwise, I might just believe that they were put in place to encourage people to buy gems and trade them for gold.

deriver.5381:

Jnaathra.6549:

Redfeather.6401:

Natural resources need to replenish themselves over time.
Learn to be in balance with your environment, young grasshopper.
crosses legs and floats into the sky

-Shoots down- Don’t tell me how to play.

He is not telling you how to play. People just want everything their way, everytime, everywhere. If the DR system was something implemented since the first betas, you wouldnt be here complaining. Just because they changed something now, and you were able to experience how it was before the change, and you happen to like it, you think everything should be rolled back to what it was, you know, just because YOU liked it more.

Is it really this hard to just adapt?

The concept is not that hard to understand. People think they should play the way they want, but they fail to grasp the fact that this way will ever be as much as what the game allows it to be. If the game changes, you will have to adapt your way to play. MMO is an ever changing world. Sure, you may come here and say to A.Net you didn’t like their changes, and they even may change everything back, but you saying that they shouldn’t tell you how to play is just plain stupid. You are playing the game they made, EVERYTHING you can do is because they allowed it to be done in the first place.

These arguments again? They marketed the game on the idea that you can play it your way. They said that if you have the time and the resolve to farm, you can do it. People who don’t have time can buy convenience items from the shop or can trade-in gems for gold. Now it seems that even if you have time you can’t farm because every half an hour or so you have to stop and wait for the DE and loot caps to reset.

Just because it’s their game doesn’t mean we don’t have the right to contest their decisions. The fact that you’re telling us we should shut up and cope with it just proves that you are a fanboy. Even if they’re not removing these mechanics, we still have the right to express our concerns in this regard, whether you like it or not. And if you don’t like it, you might as well have stayed as well from the thread, because the title is quite suggestive of the topic.

Renome.2736:

I know what YOU should do, you should purchase Pandaria.
This game gave you content worth of 60$, I hope you had fun, cya.
This is not game for you, and this game won’t change even a bit to match your image of perfect mmo, because there are alot of zombies actually loving this game.

Fixed that for you.

The only thing that is perhaps worth doing is leveling and that only once. Everything else is a grindfest. And don’t tell me to play dungeons and DEs for fun, because doing the same thing 50 times over sure as hell isn’t fun.

Wolfgrey.2049:

You can exchange gold for gems and get those fine stones easy. Congrats!

How easily? Have you seen how high gem prices have gone in the past few days?

How about the rest of my post? Why did you take that out of context? I mentioned the stones not because I couldn’t afford them but because it was just another example of how ArenaNet changed stuff in the game without thinking about the players.

Xericor.9103:

I’m getting real tired of seeing this forum descend into another ‘I hate the game so I will post in the forum that I hate the game’

So, for every negative thread I see, I will put the universe back in balance and say
I am loving the game
edited by moderator : caps

That’s the problem, genius. The people who are complaining love the game or at least what the game was promising to be up until a couple of months ago. That’s why we’re complaining, because we’re hoping that if we speak loud enough, someone will hear us.
If I downright hated the game, I wouldn’t be here wasting my time arguing with fanboys like yourself.

It’s funny how, before release, every time somebody suggested there might be a grind, they were countered with the argument that you can get a piece of dungeon armor in 1-2 runs, which was true. Now, that the cost was increased tenfold from beta to release, the fanboys use the argument that you shouldn’t expect to get it easily. Will you people always defend ArenaNet no matter what they do?

Not to mention transmutation stones. They said they removed them from karma vendors because they didn’t feel right about it and looked into redistributing them in the world. They sure did one hell of a job. I’ve got 2 level 60 characters, one level 80 and I’ve barely gotten 15 fine stones. Cash shop for the win!

This company is flat-out lying. What’s even worse than that, players are willing to swallow all the dung they are throwing at us. By God, I’m so bitter right now that I hope that they end up taking up even more enjoyment from the game to sell for gems, so that you all may actually wake up and realize you should have spoken up now.

@Deith Precisely. And that is why we have to tell them when enough is enough. I can acknowledge the fact that they want to make money, but up to a point. ArenaNet has already crossed that line for me. They have clearly, over the course of the last months, broken what could have been an exceptional game in order to make even more money than they would have.

Hieronumous.3541:

You’re calling an entire playerbase that you disagree with (kids who play WoW despite Blizzard, and for some odd reason you kind of folded ANet into that) morons. How is that NOT calling people who disagree with you morons. It’s not objectively true: I actually agree with the sentiment, that the game they play is horrible (WoW, post-BC), but I’m not going around calling them morons.
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt; maybe you just don’t know what moron means. It’s an insult; a derogatory name people use when they’re trying to call someone stupid.
I don’t care that you didn’t say it to me; I care that this crap is being said in general, on both sides. Just because you disagree with someone’s gaming philosophy doesn’t mean they’re dumber than you, and the fact that you like something else doesn’t make you smarter.

No need to give me the benefit of the doubt, since I know all too well what moron means. I’m not using the word lightly either. I have seen the way they behave and talk in map chat. My brother brought up the same concerns in his guild chat last day. Do you know what happened? He was told by a guy he had helped in a dungeon (as in doing story mode with him because he hadn’t completed it so that they could do explorable) that they didn’t care and that he should stop complaining. That, to me, is a moron. If you cannot have an ounce of respect for someone who took their time to help you, you’re a moron. That’s just one example.

Besides, there’s nothing to agree or disagree with. Some of the systems in the game are clearly broken. The only subjective thing is whether you acknowledge that or not and whether you keep playing or not. No, this is not imposing my opinion upon others, it’s simply the truth. Would you have bought a car that could only go for 10 kilometers per hour then, after you had done those 10 km you would have to wait until the hour passed and it reset? Would you have bought a car that had a constantly decreasing maximum speed and then finally stopped with you having not to use it for some time so that the speed limit would reset? How come things that are unacceptable in other products are acceptable in MMOs?

@Hieronumous Whenever did I call anyone who disagreed with me a moron? I just pointed out that a part of the community is represented by that kind of people and that this fact is quite noticeable. You disagree with me most likely. Did I call you a moron? There was not even the slightest hint in any of my posts claiming that you were somehow stupid and I’m sorry if you felt that any of my posts implied that.

As I said, like in WoW, there are a lot of people who just play the game no matter what the company does. If that’s not a sign of being a moron I don’t know what is.

Blaqwolf.1264:

Gauradan.8361:

I understand NcSoft only has one decent game and this is it, but the way they’re milking it is so shameless and noticeable that I’m surprised there aren’t more people making a stand against it.

They are, but no one is listening.

Not nearly enough. If there were, they’d be forced to listen. As I said in a previous post, there’s quite a large portion of the community who are simply put, morons. Those people aren’t bothered by anything, just like they weren’t in WoW. To them, Guild Wars 2 is the next cool thing and they’ll just play it no matter how hard ArenaNet screws them over. The community in this game is a long way from what the community in Guild Wars 1 was and that’s because, as I said, it’s been polluted with morons.

Otleaz.5639:

I wouldn’t be surprised if the OP was one of the tools who goes to sleep at an event location with his “1” key held down.

There are no logical arguments against the points we’re making in this thread, so you start making baseless assumptions. Does it matter what the OP does? In a game which marketed itself as offering you choices, you’d expect that if you wanted to grind you could grind. Grinding should actually even be closer in reach given how much of it is required to get a dungeon, cultural or karma armor. First they said there would be no grind. Now that there is and people were willing to do it, they made it unrewarding. What choices have we left? Buying gems and trading them for gold? If that’s the case, then they and their game can go to hell.

I understand NcSoft only has one decent game and this is it, but the way they’re milking it is so shameless and noticeable that I’m surprised there aren’t more people making a stand against it.

@Deith Yes, that is true. Given how few people are complaining it’s doubtful it will change. Also, I doubt they’d worry too much if the people who are complaining leave, since the game seems to have already attracted quite a huge crowd of morons. I don’t think those people will be bothered by anything, just like they weren’t bothered in WoW. I guess it’s no longer about the loyal fans, who have been following the game for a long time, but about the people who can pay the most money, which is the aforementioned morons.

Seems like we’re getting a new patch. For their sake, I hope it fixes all the stupid things they’ve added in the previous one.

DaedalusDragon.3754:

If you look at their prices before you block/report them, they have MUCH better prices for gold than the gem store conversion rate is. Now I am not endorsing gold sellers by any means as they are against every code this game has but it is, more often than not, a scam to get your password.

Be that is it may, even the fact that they are getting enough passwords to stay in business suggests people are willing to buy gold. I would never buy gold myself, but I can’t blame others for wanting to when it’s so hard to acquire in-game.

And that is why gold sellers still exist after 3 weeks. Because they’re making money. No gold seller would have wasted time in a game where nobody bought the gold.

@Zora Try harder, troll. You’re not even funny.