Guild Wars 2

Elite specs also bring in new ideas for how a class will act. This was expressly talked about during the Profession CDI that happened so long ago, far before Elite Specs, or even HoT was revealed.

For example, Reaper was inspired by Horror movie villians. They’re often slow, but powerful and menacing to instill dread. Reaper reflects that in their slow activating, but very dangerous melee abilities. Berserker was inspired by various fighting games (Smash Brawler’s trait icon is almost identical to Ridely, a trophy featured in Super Smash Brothers: Brawl, other aspects are inspired by other fighting games). Rangers were never known for their ally healing, though they had fantastic personal sustain if built for it. Druid used both GW1 lore and traditional healing concepts to expand on Ranger’s ability to heal allies, pushing them in a new direction (Celestial Avatar form correlates well to Necro’s Death Shroud mechanically, if anyone likes to make inter-professional comparisons. More on that later).

For Guardian, thematically Dragon Hunter expands on the sense of Justice espoused by base Guardian. Sometimes you defend the weak from oppression, but other times you might go out and smite the oppression before it has a chance to oppress. It very much speaks to the Cleave and Smite aspect of “holy warriors”. In modern Tyria, the largest force of oppression are the Elder Dragons. They’re forces of destruction. They’re Monsters that must be Hunted to extinction. Dragon Hunter, incidentally, is very likely (though never explicitly stated) to be inspired by the Monster Hunter series. In Monster Hunter you’ll use a Longbow (or a Hammer, Greatsword, Sword, etc) to hunt things much larger than you, and much more powerful “on paper”. You’ll use traps to capture and damage enemies (Test of Faith, Dragon’s Maw, Procession of Blades) and to support your allies (Purification, Light’s Judgement, Fragments of Faith). Mechanically, Dragon Hunter expands on the Guardian’s ability to control space, or Area Denial. Symbols and Wards were already a good source of this, but weren’t quite enough. Traps expand and improve on that capability, so that with all three (something that DH with LB and Traps has), The Guardian can declare ownership of an area and defend it well. This was/is actually reflected well by a defending DH in pvp matches; where they claim a point, and other classes will have to play around the expectation that there are traps waiting to annihilate them if they misplay. The Symbols and Wards expand that territory and containment. DH fits very well with Longbow and Traps in this regard. There’s nothing about a concept of a Holy Warrior that precludes it from acting as it does (even if that was the case, this could just be seen as an expansion of the idea of Holy Warrior)

For the future, I wouldn’t be surprised of Tomes were the focus, according to the dialogue from devs. Tomes could be implemented a variety of ways (like Revenant’s Legends, or Engineer’s Kits, or others). As far as what aspect of Guardian gets expanded on, or what new aspect gets added, I have no clue. Condition based builds still have an opportunity even though I think Burning can do most of the heavy lifting. Some people want to expand defensive capabilities, and others want to expand healing/support capabilities. All three of those things could even be touched on purely by logical options for Tome design. As far as weapons go, I’m not sure if there’s anything the Guardian needs in its toolkit. Some might say conditions, but I think that would be addressed in a “weapon agnostic” way. Another ranged/midrange option would be nice, but again, not imperative. I think the weapon will largely be the gravy of the new Espec while the overall theme will be the real meat and potatoes. More like Mesmer’s Shield rather than Necro’s Greatword.

Sure, but what I had initially quoted was in regards to Dragonhunter. That’s not going to be changed at this point. Longbow and traps aren’t up for consideration.

Instead, we should be making suggestions for the future, as is the intention of the thread.

Lets not pretend an unbiased opinion exists.

It really doesn’t matter how you (or I) think DH fits in with Guardain thematically. We aren’t the content creators (For the record, I do see how it fits in. I can see the concept as a whole, the inspiration from outside media, and how it was integrated into Guild Wars). But, implying that “because I don’t agree with the implementation or idea itself means its inherently a bad idea” would be poor form. It would be very safe, considering the time and other investments needed, to assume that whatever included in the game that isn’t a bug/glitch/exploit/etc is there for intentionally. Its there because the designers wanted it to be there in their game. It is, after all, their game, and they have full power to control what it includes. That doesn’t mean we have to agree with everything included by any means. If I were in charge of the Guardian, I wouldn’t necessarily design Scepter the way it has. However, I cannot also reasonably expect that because I don’t like it, it should be changed. Nor should I expect that anyone would have to agree with me. I’m not in a position of power when it comes to game content.

Stating or having an opinion doesn’t protect it from criticism

Fashion Mage.3712:

Yes, you’re right. In the face of ANet’s absurd design decisions, common sense and consistency mean nothing.

That’s implying that your opinions are superior to the creators’, which is dripping in hubris.

I mean sure, you can have your opinions, and you might think them to be important, but that doesn’t mean they should be considered. I wouldn’t expect a consultation call any time soon.

Fashion Mage.3712:

The weapon itself isn’t the thing that isn’t fitting, but rather how it’s used, although I think traps fit even less.

bearshaman.3421:

To be honest, I have always felt that the DH did not fit guardian very well thematically.

Y’all’s headcanon doesn’t mean much.

Ezrael.6859:

And all the other daft power-creep we’ve had since vanilla.

Beta*

mrauls.6519:

Whirling Wrath should NOT make us move slower -__-

It could always go back to how it was and prevent any movement at all.

There are a few things that don’t factor into stat conversions, its intended to be that way. I don’t have the post or the list of things off-hand, but it was mentioned by an employee on these forums. Almost all of them are the temporary/conditional boosts (like FotM and CF) as was mentioned.

Yannir.4132:

Why are people so kitten narrow-minded? UW Spear and “Land” Spear have nothing to do with each other. There are plenty of polearm variants. It could be a Glaive(which is not a spear), Poleaxe or a Halberd or any number of other things. New weapons do not have to come from the existing weapon pool.

1. Glaive – What people keep referring to as a landspear. Which it is not. An elite weapon, there are only lvl 80 variants of it, and can only be used by select ESpecs.

No one is referring to Glaive as a Spear. Why are you so insistent on marking their differences? Also, Spears are/were frequently used for Slashing. Actual spears, and not Glaives.

Sandzibar.5134:

2) You state that reflectable and blockable are the same, and talk about unblockable.. I never mentioned anything to do with unblockable. mfw
3) I state that they obviously ARE NOT THE SAME as Mesmer Greatsword attacks can be blocked – but you CAN NOT REFLECT THEM BACK. It’s the same with Guardian Staff autos.

We’re talking about Projectiles. In relation to projectiles, which we are currently talking about, reflection is a property of blocking. Mesmer’s GS1, GS3, and GS5 are not projectiles, so obviously they don’t follow projectile rules. Incidentally, Mes GS2 is a projectile, and specifically has the unblockable effect, which means it can’t be blocked, reflected, or absorbed as mentioned.

As far as your suggestion, you can’t just change every single Guardian projectile into not a projectile. Here’s the list of current Guardian projectiles in question.

Sword – Sword Wave / Zealot’s Defense

• Sword Wave: actually shouldn’t be a projectile. It should act like Staff 1 which is also a wave (It should be 3 overlapping waves to keep its multi-hit nature) Zealot’s Defense, if its going to keep its functionality, should still have projectiles.

Scepter – Orb of Wrath

• Should stay projectile

Hammer – Zealot’s Embrace

• Should stay projectile as it acts like other ground-based projectiles

Staff – Orb of Light

• Should stay projectile (its annoying interaction with block and reflect should be less problematic though)

Torch – Zealot’s Fire

• Should stay projectile

Focus – Ray of Judgement

• Should stay projectile, unless it becomes and actual Ray (Jesus Beam Hooo!)

Greatsword – Whirling Wrath / Binding Blade

• Should stay projectiles

Only one skill actually should be changed from a projectile to a different skill type. Whether or not these skills should have Unblockable added is a different scenario (some probably should), but once again, the solution isn’t to just change every projectile into a non-projectile.

Sandzibar.5134:

You can block a mesmer GS ranged attack.. but you cant reflect it – because its not a projectile. Its certainly not an unblockable attack.

When the thread title talks about Guardian skills that suffer from Reflection, it should be apparent that the only skills that would be talked about were indeed projectiles. To assume anything else is just pedantry at best. Making Guardian projectiles blockable but non-reflectable would be to make them not projectiles.

Invexes.6580:

slightly off topic I always thought it was weird that spirit weapons took the form of minions since that is undeniably a necromancer thing. maybe some one could explain the appeal.

But they don’t. Having AI skills aren’t a Necro only thing. And in fact, making them more like Minions has been one of the more popular ideas for improving them.

Sandzibar.5134:

Id turn every single Guardian projectile into light based (much like mesmer GS is – why is that btw?) . So that guardian is the counter to this kittened reflect creep. Even DH longbow skills.

Theyd still be blockable ofc.

Maybe its good that I’m not a balance dev.

Reflectable and blockable are the same designation. Unblockable goes through block, reflect, and even absorb.

Zarya(?) has Gravity Well. It really depends on what specific aspects of Mesmer you want to emulate.

The damage difference needs to be dropped in different game modes. Retaliation needs to be a deterrent in WvW and PvP, and it isn’t. However, its also not fun to be a Flamethrowing Engi with quickness. You might end up hitting 5(3?) targets with 10 hits per channel. Before the change that would be 13750 damage at base Power. It can’t also lose its niche as the anti multi-hit. Retaliation is to Aegis as Confusion is to Blind. What I think would work better is to have a Stability-like limit to how often you can proc Retal. Something like once every .25 or .5 seconds might be enough. That way you can maintain its use as a multi-hit deterrence, but not have an Engi (or anyone else in a similar boat) completely obliterate itself before they can physically react.

And then of course Radiant Retaliation needs to scale from both Power and Condi at Power’s levels to make it more useful as a trait.

I’m eagerly awaiting feedback. I bet the focus on retaliation killed it for me, because no one seems to like retaliation. Aktium and my ideas weren’t too far off from each other though. We both had a focus on CC, support, and mace. You could even consider my focus on interrupts being influenced by Mesmers, while his Seals were outright admitted to be. There were a few things I wouldn’t consider kosher, but maybe that was all forgotten when he explicitly asked for gems.

If I would’ve gotten the gems I would’ve put them towards getting a third Necro. Maybe I should’ve mentioned that.

Similar to Meteor Shower, Smite could be a Symbol for the field, but still provide the multiple hits per second as it does now. Its total amount of hits would be something I would want to preserve, and that would be a way to do it.

Chains of Light would be an interesting option too. Considering the public’s like of Symbol of Energy keeping its burn on application, Chains could perhaps have the immobilize happen on activation with normal symbol effects happening afterward (and that would have the effect of keeping people inside the symbol, fancy that).

I won’t stop saying as long as it isn’t true, every weapon set needs a symbol.

thescottish.8430:

We dont need passive run speed we are in a good place. I love only having the one choice of runes, travler runes, to use if i want to not be a slug.

/sarc

Glad you’re happy. People don’t need options when the best choice is always, objectively made by them.

The intention was that Orb of Wrath was supposed to be a bullet hell style skill. Whether that’s still the case is unknown, but I’d like to enhance that aspect. It’s a unique aspect of the skill that makes it significantly diffident in design than other projectiles.

One way is to drop projectile speed by 25%, but increase attack speed by 33%. If that’s still not enough projectiles in the air, then we could even consider 2 or 3 projectiles per skill use. All numbers involving the skill would need to be messed with, but the bullet hell, accuracy by shotgun concept is there.

I want the GW2 Guardian to play similarly to the many ways you can play a Dungeons and Dragons Cleric. Incidentally, the DnD Cleric happens to already be an inspiration for the Guardian, as said by devs themselves. You can play a DnD cleric as Melee damage, supporty with heals and/or cc, Ranged damage with a Bow (or with spears/javelins wink wink nudge nudge say no more say no more), Ranged damage with Spells, and more. Guardian has aspects of those, but they could stand to be fleshed out a bit more. Many skills don’t work consistently (in comparison to how other, equivalent skills work; like Mace aa3, Mace 3, Sword aa3, and others). So first, I’d have to go through and make sure its the most fluid it can be with what we have currently. Then, I could work on filling in the gaps of skill performance, like Consecrations, Spirit Weapons, and others, where their performance just doesn’t lend themselves to be wanted in nigh any situation. The concepts are fine, its just the implementation that needs a little time investment.

Ray.8259:

On the contrary, Sword skill 4 generates a clone, so Mesmers offhanding a sword have access to both a phantasm and 2 clones.

True, but that’s an exception, and two clones compared to one is not the same as one clone compared to zero.

If two handed weapons have one symbol, then it makes it easy enough to have Sword and Scepter also have a symbol with Mace being the example. Having access to two symbols at once might be interesting, but that should then imply we should have two symbols for every weaponset, which means more symbols for GS, Hammer, Bow, Staff, etc. That’s a lot more design than just Sword and Scepter.

They don’t have to break stun, and one of them even has a very long range teleport

They grant might when traited, one even untraited (and more!)

They grant access to cc, movement, boons, conditions (both damaging and not), have synergy with venoms, and you can abuse stealth with them and a rune

They’re not supposed to be DH traps.

Some people believe Flashing Blade should get a symbol after the teleport, which I’m not a fan of, but it is an option. I would prefer changing Zealot’s Defense into a symbol that has same functionality (projectile defense and perhaps projectiles themselves).

Off hands don’t need symbols if all main hands did. One symbol per loadout just like how Mesmers get one clone and one phantasm per loadout.

If an elite spec wanted to use Shroud as something other than a transform, then obviously there will need to be some tweaking in design to make it happen. For my entry I kept it simple and just had another transform. However, I thought a lot about having 1 single, large summon (like a super phantasm, or the Elite Ranger Spirit). Many traits would still work fine, but others (like interacting with X skill in Shroud) would need some subtle changes. Afaik the only skills specifically traited in Shroud are 1, 2, and 4. In the case of a pet-like Shroud summon, those could easily be mapped to either pet aa/F2, F3, and F4 depending. Shroud might only be shown in its’ two examples to be a transform, but it could functionally be something completely different.

At this point it isn’t worth the investment to change the name. They’d have to get localization and translations for every supported language and voice overs, which cost time and money, but especially time. It takes so much more time to localize than most people give it credit for.

Symbols provide area denial. Players don’t just stand on symbols for fun. Granted, it’s harder to place a symbol down when you want it on Hammer, but symbols don’t constantly have to tick for damage for them to be worth while.

You can’t be tanky and glass at the same time, so there’s that.

Plus, there are plenty of ways you could have a frontline healer. One way might be too revolve around boons and allies. The healer might have strong allied healing, but lower personal healing. But, for the support they give their allies, they might be healed themselves. Without allies to support, their sustain plummets. Sounds an awful lot like a concept already in place for Guardian. An elite spec that expands on this idea wouldn’t be out of place.

otto.5684:

Josh Davis.6015:

The trait is actually working as intended (25% chance to apply torment), but the tooltip is incredibly inaccurate.

That said, I don’t think it’s GM worthy with a 15s ICD. How does 10s sound?

Even with 1 sec ICD this will be useless.

At 1s icd and 5s duration it would be useful. A defensive, condi version of Retaliation that would add some counter pressure to being under attack while also not dismantling FT engis. It just needs to stay aoe so that it doesn’t become ineffective against large groups.

Etterwyn.5263:

emkelly.2371:

Warhorn 4

• Grant allies copies of your boons
• Boons Copied: 3

Warhorn 5

• 5: Consume all boons healing nearby allies based on how many boons you consume.
• Boons Consumed: 13
• Healing Per boon: 300

Not bad for some situations, couple that with a mace and it would be a nasty Frontline healer… but a primary healer shouldn’t be on the front line. And there again the uselessness of the Scepter in its current state shines though.

It also would be pretty bad for open world since its effectiveness is linear with the number of players in your vicinity.

No reason a primary healer can’t be in the frontlines. In fact, that’s probably exactly the spot Guardian is supposed to fill. I won’t go and say it has the tools to do this, but it isn’t too terribly far off. I wouldn’t want that exact functionality for warhorn, but the overall concept of Frontline Healer is a perfect fit for a future Guardian elite spec.

For some of you its like its your first interaction with a dev. Glad your cherry is popped, but calm down. Devs read tons of threads on the forums, and they have an internal list of what they want to accomplish with each balance pass. The red posts here are probably just Josh’s way of letting us know that they know that we know.

Its definitely worth smoothing over the inconsistent functionality of skills. Faithful Strike can easily deal damage to three enemies but heal once, as seen in Necro and Thief Dagger autos. Protector’s Strike should probably act more like most blocks and not trigger after just the first block (and also have a toggle skill to end the block early for the secondary effect). Sword Wave could afford to be a wave like Wave of Wrath happens to be, and all the other fun things that make playing Guardian different mechanically from another class. I’m really big on things acting consistent throughout a game. I’m a fan of naming conventions that reflect what the skills do (used heavily in GW1). There’s a lot of low-hanging fruit in every class that’s largely just fixing inconsistencies with how skills work compared to other skills with similar functionality. No doubt Anet is tracking and working on solutions to them.

apharma.3741:

I’ve even heard unconfirmed reports of blob vs spawn.

We have had confirmation

To bring it back to thread topic, its worth noting that Roaming isn’t necessarily a supported style of play. This shouldn’t come as a surprise, but 1v1 duels aren’t exactly the focal point of the wvw gamemode. Whatever roles the ele has in pvp will likely translate to small group havokittenil you get to zerg sized numbers, where ele takes on its large number roles.

People have combined PS and JI plenty before, so that was more rhetorical than anything.

Axe MH is a hybrid weapon leaning towards the condi half. the auto-attack is there for easy might stacks (off-hand being only power). The trait gives some boost to power damage in the form of ferocity, while Precision will be helpful for both power and condi. Considering there’s now a use for every offensive stat, Celestial seems to be the most useful if you want the full experience of Axe.

Whether this is good enough for you individually is another matter.

Darknicrofia.2604:

as kittenty as zealot’s defense is, can still be chained with JI for a reasonable burst.

Protector’s Strike can’t?

Gyros and superspeed are pretty good, but they’re not the only thing. Elixers offer a lot of zerg support that’s worth bringing, like Toss Elixer R ( fully traited its 207% revive every minute), Toss Elixer B (Stab every 16s), Toss Elixer U (Reflection/Projectile destruction every 30s), and Toss Elixer X (aoe moa) with the elixers themselves obviously being only for you. Between Gyros and Elixers, there’s a lot the Engineer can bring to lessen the load on other classes. Not to mention, Hammer brings an aoe stun, reflection, blocks, and leaps. The zerg Engineer is intended to assist in whatever aspect the zerg is lacking in

XerMeLL.6042:

What confuses me is that I’m using a Rifle, i suppose it will pierce not do a splash damage. I think the balance team should look know the difference between a Shotgun, Grenade Launcher, Pistol and Rifle. A rifle that do splash doesnt fit.

You can fire all 4 styles of those rounds through a rifled barrel. But, we don’t care about how things work in our world, we care about how things work in Tyria.

I still have my Paragon. I don’t know what y’all are complaining about.

NeXeD.3042:

ive been working one this for a very long time

i call it the revenant.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revenant

Buran.3796:

An off-hand shield should be nice.

That meme died months ago

ITT we:

1) complain about things

2) argue semantics

and

3) realize no one actually wants one-shot mechanics

In a healthy, living game, there will always be things more powerful than another. Likewise, there will always be balance shifts, where something weak becomes strong and vice versa. A balance team is not actually looking for complete balance.

Aeolus.3615:

Next will be the double face palm rifle.

Pls Anet, I want to Long Arm of the Law

https://youtu.be/Hjhx_K3_wco

If you’ve tried every build and get the same result, maybe it’s not the build that is the problem.

Yannir.4132:

Gwaihir.1745:

There’s also a bug with the trait that gives 13% toughness to ferocity. It actually only gives 7%. It’s listed on the wiki even and yet it’s not been fixed. So I doubt they’ll ever touch ww again until they realize that the guard class is destroyed.

I think this might be a tooltip error, and it is only meant to give 7%. That would be more consistent to other classes.

Not considering its a GM trait. At the GM level 13% is the norm

Welp, finally got it done. I love doing experiments like this. Theorycrafting is one of my favorite past times, and the reason I’m so poor in game.

Design Goals:
1) Retaliation
2) Orders as Venoms
3) Interrupts
4) ???

The Demogogue

Weapon: Mace
Mace 1a: Vile Strike .5 – Strike your foes 202 (0.6) and inflict Torment 4s
Mace 1b: Plague Swipe .5 – Strike your foes 241 (0.5) and inflict Poison 4s
Mace 1c: Lifebane Strike .75 – Smash foes to steal life 406 and inflict Poison 6s
Mace 2: Putrid Bile .5 8s – Create a Poison Field 5s at your location dealing damage 308 (0.6) and inflicting poison 5s.
Mace3: Gaze of Contempt .75 15s – Daze 1s foes in front of you 450u. Deal damage 487 (1.3) and gain lifeforce for each foe stuck 5%.

Shroud Skills:
Shroud 1: Oppresive Gaze .75 – Gaze forward 600u dealing damage 246 (0.6 ) and inflicting Cripple 2s on foes.
Shroud 2: Reckless Haste 1/2 12s- Dash forward 450u, dealing damage 485 (0.5) and knocking back foes you hit 120u.
Shroud 3: Shadow of Fear .25 15s – Send your shadow forward 1200u, inflicting Fear 3s on foes.
Shroud 4: Rising Bile 2.75 30s – Cause bile to rise up (130u), dealing damage 9x 412 (0.33), 240u radius.
Shroud 5: Cacophony 1 40s- Command enemies to depart 600u, dealing damage, and flinging enemies away. Blowout 250u. Grants Light Aura to allies.

Utility Skills
Healing: Order of Vampirism 1 40s – Gain health 6210 (0.5). Steal Health 465, 5 stacks
Utility 1: Order of Undeath 0 40s – Attacks Transfer Conditions, 3 Stacks
Utility 2: Order of Pain 0 40s – Attacks automatically crit and inflict Vulnerability 10s, 5 stacks
Utility 3: Order of Subversion 0 40s – Inflict Confusion 3s, 3 stacks
Utility 4: Order of Oppression 0 40s- Attacks inflict Slow 1s and Cripple 2s, 3 stacks
Elite: Order of Apostasy 1 40s – Cause Fear 1s and corrupt Boons, 3 stacks

Traits
Minor 1: One of the Elite You can equip maces and use demogogue orders. Death shroud is replaced with demogogue’s shroud, which has more crowd control oriented skills.
Minor 2: Envenomed Disruption Inflict Poison 5s on foes you interrupt
Minor 3: Deft Retaliation Retaliation lasts 25% longer and gain Retaliation 3s on Interrupt.

Adept 1: Dazzling Mantle Gain Light Aura when entering Shroud
Adept 2: Poisoned Heart Deal more damage 10% to Poisoned foes. Poison 5s foes who strike you (5s)
Adept 3: Blinding Diversion Cause Blindness 3s when attacking from behind or the side (10s)

Master 1: Soul Barbs Orders grant Retaliation 4s to allies they affect.
Master 2: Weaken Knees Mace Skills deal 5% more damage and Touch of Agony Knocks Down instead of dazes.
Master 3: Corrupt Enchantment Corrupt a boon whenever you interrupt an enemy. deal 538 (0.2) damage if target foe has no boons.

Grand Master 1: Spoil Victor Steal health 135 (0.025) when struck while under the effects of Retaliation.
Grand Master 2: Intoxifying Presence Cause a poison field (3s Poison every 3s, 180u) to follow you when entering shroud. Poison deals 20% more damage.
Grand Master 3: Vocal Minority Orders recharge 10% faster plus 3% faster for each ally they affect

Rune: Rune of the Demogogue
1: +25 Toughness
2: +10% Retaliation Duration
3: +50 Toughness
4: Gain 3s Retaliation on hit (25% chance, 20s cooldown)
5: +100 Toughness
6: +20% Retaliation Duration. Grant nearby allies Light Aura on Elite Skill use (45s cooldown)

Notes:

• Any kittens might mean 45 seconds
• Orders act like Thief Venoms, with the added benefit of applying to allies without a needed trait.
• It has some interesting synergy with every trait line
• Has synergy with some underused aspects of Necromancer without requiring every aspect of the elite spec.
• Uses a lot of callbacks to GW1, mostly in names since mechanics don’t translate well.
• Inspired partly by the current US political climate

Conditions aren’t attacks. But, conditions are applied by attacks.

EremiteAngel.9765:

Is it worth giving up the bleed on chill for blighters boon?

That would obviously depend on how much Chill you expect to be putting out. You might not be applying Chill freqently, but Chill duration might be capped, and so the trait combo of Blighter’s Boon and Chilling Victory might be better than additional bleed stacks.

DH runes gives 5% crit damage over Scholar, at the cost of 75 Power. DH Rune’s might would become a non-factor in an optimized group, but might shine better than Scholar’s when solo or without capped Might.