Guild Wars 2

Spirit Weapons take the disadvantages of both Necrominions and Gyros. They’re going to need a lot to be competitive, but there’s potential there.

DH virtues are all more condensed. SoJ focuses solely on affecting a single target and cannot be used defensively while stunned. WoR can be interrupted mid cast and only heals allies in a small radius from the landing point. It also cannot be used to remove Fear. SoC does to a good job when you can face your enemies, but doesn’t help when surrounded. It also cannot be used while stunned unless you also have Indomitable Courage traited, meaning you have both DH and Virtues, or 2/3 of your options spoken for. DH Virtues are much nicer against the 1v1, or against a boss, which was the entire point of the DH design. However, its not as if there aren’t significant tradeoffs that are made in terms of support and utility by taking them.

Reaper’s Shroud offers Necros Stability and a Leap, both of which are considered as necessary as DH virtues might be. It also offers synergy with both Power and Condition builds, which makes Death Shroud look inferior by comparison. Whether or not that’s “true” is another matter, but people quickly forget all the tradeoffs they’re making, or they just happen to be adept at planning around those tradeoffs. More options always gives room for interesting interactions, but that doesn’t necessarily mean there’s any bad design going on.

I don’t believe there is a single elite spec that doesn’t accomplish what it was designed to do, which is good design by definition. With the next elite specs, there will be tradeoffs between vanilla and our current offerings, and so the decisions multiply even more. With only one currently, people might think its the best option all the time, but even now there are plenty of builds that don’t make use of the elite spec.

Its not in the character screen, but in the weapon skill tooltips on your Main hand weapons. Its an additive 15%

emkelly.2371:

DH is poorly designed (like all Elite specializations), and because of the way it’s designed, it is specifically overpowered in SPVP, no where else.

You’ve still never properly explained your opinion here. For all I know you’re just trying to dump some warrior salt over here.

Brutaly.6257:

Not entirely correct- Its over powered in
-Low level pvp
and
-with opponents with low skill level
and/or
-when classes are stacked in low level pvp.

So tl:dr, If you’re having trouble with DH you’re bad.
Sounds about right.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Are you asking me to step into a non spvp related game mode? XD

Do it for the interest of science! Then I can publish your work on the wiki and make 2g

I’ve liked the idea of P/P trapper. Your build goes Power, so you could even get away with running DH runes and be stealthless.

P/P Traps with Trapper runes makes me want to focus on Sneak Attack more than Unload. In that case Bound would be the better dodge for more Sneak Attack opportunities.

In any case P/P Trapper is a fun idea and fun to play, and sometimes that’s all you need.

Combining Legends is still a whole lot of work for not a lot of benefit. A simpler solution is likely to be better overall, and more likely to be implemented.

I had also considered a heal per condi removed, or a 10% damage against burning foes a la Engi FT. The power scaling isn’t horrible, but its clear damage isn’kittens primary use. Anything that takes advantage of proccing Justice will be something torch is interested in (especially with Permeating Wrath). A secondary effect that triggers on hitting a burned foe is probably one of the better things to add onto Cleansing Flame. Increasing all burns by X seconds (although another thing borrowed from Engi FT) might also be interesting.

That torch thread wasn’t that great, and boon clearing isn’t something the torch should be doing natively.

Its a really good skill for what it was designed for. Those situations just don’t come up as often as they might need to. The channel feels very nice with quickness, but not everyone is running FmW, Sigil of Rage, or Sigil of Celerity in every gamemode.

I’d decrease the channel time by 1-1.25s and have the skill remove 3 conditions from yourself and allies affected. This should both increase dps and make it more utilitarian in multiple situations.

Friendly PSA:
Even if you do have a team of 4 Viper Necros + Healer doesn’t mean anyone is playing optimally.

For everyone who isn’t going for speedrun world records, Completion is the goal, and completion can be done with far less than optimal.

I have a thought.

What if CnD had a nominal gap closer added? Something around 300 units worth. Would that be a more positive change? Port in 300u, then stab animation for stealth. That would help power D/D do its thing and shouldn’t send P/D off to space. I suppose if you wanted to you could use it like Flashing Blade and burn 12ini to move 600u when chased, but that kind of inefficiency wouldn’t be too troublesome. This idea is starting to sound like something already mentioned…

Sounds like Fractals at 81+ are a problem and not Guardian as a class
But that’s none of my business
anyone have some tea?

Amaranthe.3578:

yea no matter how you twist it you are not a guardian/paladin
youre actually a mystic knight

You’re gonna have to explain yourself on that one Broheim.

as long as people refuse to build/play around it, it’ll continue to appear ridiculous.

Yannir.4132:

Ghotistyx.6942:

Signet of Resolve is already at 35s

Really? Well okey nvm that then. Was relying on information from the editor. I guess it hasn’t been updated there yet?

GW2skills hasn’t been updated since the last big patch, so there will be a lot of changes you wouldn’t have seen.

Signet of Resolve is already at 35s

With Strength, every cc you have applies bleeding and weakness, and interrupts apply confusion. So now you just need sources of hard cc to be a condi build. Mace+Shield has plenty, and Rifle has a low cd knockback, two if in Berserk with Gunflame. Even Hammer has enough. Skull Grinder and Gunflame condi applications are icing (albeit very important icing) on the cake. It’s also worth mentioning Mace and Rifle heavily rely on Power damage without the specific Strength traits Berserker, so having a hybrid stat set (like Carrion or Vipers) would be beneficial. This should all be known, I just wanted to reiterate.

With that being said, I wouldn’t play something like Mace/Rifle as a bunker, but you could probably get away with it as a skirmisher. As I imagine it, you’d probably want Strength/Defense/Berserker which would give you your condi applications, access to hard cc, reflects for your mace and shield, sustain, and other tools to make something work.

Nostradus.2187:

Hi,i’m new to the game I’miss looking for a class to make my main.
I’m thinking about guardian.
How is the class in all pve parts? I mainly want to play pve and some wvw.
Will I have problems soloing hot pve content ?
Farm effective solo?
How are dungeon wother guardian? Are they welcome in groups?
How are they for fractals? Can I do all kinds of hight fractals and would my group happy to have me?
How are they in raids ? Are they taken or left behind?
I would like to play some kind of range dps/support for wvw .

I currently thinking between guardian or necro.
Maybe even rev.

Pls help me out here

A Guardian, Necro, or Rev will fulfill all your needs. Make one of everything if you can.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Such glorious preaching that nary a mortal ear could hear

Don’t hurt yourself on that soapbox

emkelly.2371:

^ anything that anet does to buff core guard will ultimately buff DH. Just one reason why Elite specs are horribly designed.

If that’s your problem, then what would you have done differently? The situation as it stands was one of the more solid options talked about in the CDI years ago.

If you like blocks mace is a great weapon to build around. Since the advent of Sword and Scepter’s symbols though, its previous spot of quick recharge 1H symbol isn’t nearly as necessary.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Even if aegis pulsed every 1/4 of a second. It would still be inferior.
A single Rapid Fire would make you vulnerable to all other damage from their team.

You like the idea because of the potential for trait synergy.

But do you really think they would allow you to heal five people for 6k+ while healing you an additional 3000? Subsequently causing 12,600 damage in the area, and 1k+ ticks of retaliation to anyone aoeing from afar.

What would occur is they would nerf the traits, or they would triple the cooldown for the skill.

There is no way they would change shelter and keep everything else as it was.

The devs want to avoid the hate from guardians for making healing breeze inferior again. As well as the hate from chronomancer/ranger/necromancer for producing a vastly superior ground targeted aoe healing field.

Most of this is true, but it also requires best case scenario with 0 leeway in build, potential targets, and more. This is a case where it sounds interesting enough to have it tested in a dev build. Since we don’t have that we’ll never know what its capabilities/imprint on the game truly are. However, that shouldn’t stop us from talking about it.

The other direction we could go is to create a Untyped/New skill category where Shelter would be aligned (which is most likely the better option overall), but that requires a lot more thinking than how someone might put Shelter into an existing skill category.

sorrychief.2563:

Just categorize shelter as a meditation.

It’s bugged me for awhile that most meditations are instant skills. Since when does someone meditate instantly? In that sense, I wouldn’t mind RF and Shelter being meditations, and moving Smite, JI, CoP, MI, and LoW to another skill type. However, that’s a lot of work for probably not much gain.

Varezenem.2813:

Please read what I wrote again.

It doesn’t change anything posted.

Jack Skywalker.5674:

I love it how I just start getting ignored here.

No one is required to respond in any particular way nor even at all.

We’ve had a Salt Lake, and we’ve had a Salt Flats, but never before have we had a Salt Waterfall until this thread.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Don’t be ridiculous. Shelter/shield of courage/renewed focus are the only way to negate coordinated bursts. Pulsed aegis does not help you in wvw or people would be using it https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Well_of_Precognition

We can get far, far more out of our aegis blocks (or blocks in general) than a mesmer can. Not to mention, there’s no reason aegis couldn’t be pulsed every 1/2 or 1/4s. There’s a lot you can change when you’re in the business of brainstorming.

Shelter could become a consecration and pulse Aegis for 2-3s while reducing damage by 20%. Keep the hps the same and it should synergize much better with traits like Pure of Heart or Shattered Aegis. Likewise, it would fit in perfectly with other consecrations and how they interact with the Master of Consecrations trait.

Litany isn’t terrible when fully traited (hps is fairly decent without doing damage), though I wouldn’t complain about dropping the recharge to 25s (20s traited).

And then yeah, Spirit Weapon heal of some sort would be nice. My OCD wants there to be 6 utility skills of each skill type.

D/P definitely doesn’t need that extra mobility on x/P
S/P doesn’t need it to function well
P/P can get its mobility through other means if it finds itself still lacking.

Varezenem.2813:

Daniel Handler.4816:

It’s a freaking Centaur. He doesn’t know what he is talking about. Make it remove a moment impairing condition then. But Centaur and cripple has such a strong association in the game.

It’s not exactly because it’s Ventari but because the legendary centaur stance is a subset of the profession “Revenant”. It’s for the same reasons Elementalists do not have poison or warriors protection. They probably didn’t Ventari in mind when they choose this restriction. In my opinion it was implied that Elite Specializations aren’t restricted by this.

Rune of the Centaur is all about Swiftness and Cripple (both currently and before it was redone). I personally don’t really care either way, but you could definitely make the association between Centaurs and Cripple.

None of this needs to be changed.

^ And that’s a niche for Engis to fill. Mobility is extremely useful to have individually or as a group.

A good rule of thumb for how well something clears condis is looking at the frequency of passive clears. Signet of Resolve and Strength of the Fallen both cure 1 per 10s. Smite Condition cures 2 on a 20s cooldown, or effectively 1 per 10s. Sigils of Purification, Cleansing, and Generosity all effectively cure 1 per 10s. Other condition clearing skills seem to revolve around that 1 per 10s as a baseline, with differing specifics for different requirements, like being in shroud or stealth to get 1 per 3s (probably evens out to around 1 per 10s with all factors taken into account), or blocking to get a clear (you might average 1 block per 10s over time). Skills that cleanse significantly more than 1 per 10s are strong clears, while those that don’t probably have that as an added bonus,

Meditations probably don’t need any more condition clearing, as they already are pretty decent at it from a personal standpoint. Smite can be activated twice via traits for 4 per (16+24s) 40s, and Contemplation of Purity clears everything at a very fast rate (1 per 2.5s best case) on top of its Stun breaker and its conversion to boons. Shouts average a traited cooldown of 30s with the most used sitting at 24s. With runes, the 1 clear 1 conversion isn’t terrible, if slightly underperforming for your 24s recharge shouts (1 per 12s), and perform even worse when you use Save Yourselves, Receive the Light, or Feel My Wrath (1 per 20s,1 per 16s , and 1 per 18 respective). If Pure of Voice instead converted 2 conditions (like it did erroneously at one point), then we’d see much better clearing from our commonly used 24s group (1 per 8s) and especially our 24s+ group (1 per 13.3s,1 per 10.6s , and 1 per 12s respective).

One other QoL change that would be beneficial would be for Save Yourselves! to happen after Pure of Voice and Rune of the Trooper if possible. Save Yourselves! would also benefit from a very small amount of Resistance so you could at least read and react to the conditions you just transferred.

All of that would be much, much better than removing 8 conditions from double proccing Smite Condition or wasting 2 guaranteed clears from Contemplation of Purity.

TheDevice.2751:

Go ahead and respond. I’ll see to your hippocratic response.

This has nothing to do with helping the sick or abstaining
from administering poisons

Devs have actually said P/P (or just pistol in general) is intended to have a hybrid nature when they added Might to Unload.

You can Power Unload which is fun, or Bounding+ BP for consistent Sneak Attack (or traps and Trapper runes), or get both Pressure Strike and Pulmonary Impact for a ‘rupt build. There’s almost a build per weapon skill, which isn’t too bad a situation.

dragonkain.3984:

Still a problem, no idea why wasn’t fixed in big rev bugfixes patch cos its gamebreaking

That’s going a little far

babazhook.6805:

Sifu.9745:

Do you think that P/D is much weaker than P/P in PvP? Looks like as the most useless weapon set in the game …

I would not know about PvP bt p/d works very well as a condition set WvW and can be deadly against all classes barring those with high resistance uptime (resistance is OP IMO as it compromises ALL conditions)

As a power set it underwhelming.

There used to be a Power P/D set built around kiting and Shadow Strike to keep distance. I also remember someone having a video posted, but it was years ago. Something like this would probably be close enough to what it was. High cripple uptime and gap openers for pretty decent keep away.

Even then, it would probably work better as a hybrid set with Carrion or something.

I like traps, and how each are designed. I also like how DH traps compare to Ranger and Thief (Power, Condi, Control respectively). I never thought the boons were necessary, but at this point it doesn’t matter. I also like the Monster Hunter inspiration that was used for DH as a whole.

I always like to hear why people do the things they do.

emkelly.2371:

Ventari would be viable if the utilities actually did something besides healing.

Oh I know, let’s give a non healing skill some healing so it can be exactly like Guardian Shield but better

Sword+ Scepter is quality. Either probably better than GS

There’s nothing worth salvaging

Signet of Might had been a favorite of mine because I seem to be enamored with Warrior’s Rifle, and unblockable/unreflectable Killshots are tasty. But even beyond Killshot, it’s useful having anywhere from 25% to 60% unblockable uptime. Especially handy for all the DH that people are erroneously complaining about.

I’d say, right now, all of the Guardians weapons are pretty quality. Each one has a niche and feel nice to use. You’ll see everything in play based on specific build needs. I don’t know if anyone else has as many good options.

Guardian has multiple builds that are both thematic and effective. Burning, Medi, Symbols, Traps, etc. Almost all the utility skills are decent with only Signets and Spirit Weapons trailing.

Overall Guardian is a solid class, and it’s designed to be as such. Solid is a perfect description of Guardian design and theming.

What is it with people coming here and trying to talk down to this community like it’s an intervention?

I’ll take “Things That Aren’t True” for 500 Alex

All is Vain had a better op, but these comments are superior craftsmanship.

soulknight.9620:

What we get now is total silence as if everything is according to plan and we have nothing to worry about.

Huh…

Sword has a block and a melee range pull, so those would both be useful still to either mitigate/immobilize or pull someone further out of position.

Axe has the Torment and Chill to directly help with condi. It also has an interrupt, which might be an area of focus for the hypothetical elite spec. The gap closer is odd, but there might be some ways where that would be desirable (a trait similar to Reaper’s Deathly Chill would make it useful).

The offhands are moderately fine, the proposed Espec would just have to be designed around those.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

You still face the “on hit” effect problem triggering on an unintended target.

That’s a separate factor and was not within our realm of discussion

Well yes, you could definitely do that. What I meant was the stray minion or clone wouldn’t be preventing you from hitting the Necro or Mesmer you truly wanted. Or in a zerg situation, you could just spray and pray and that would be fine too.

The primary effect of pierce is the hit the target you want without being body blocked. Extra damage on other non-ai targets is gravy.

vesica tempestas.1563:

…this was removed with no replacement.

Pro-tip: Not everything needs compensation