Guild Wars 2

Cleansing Flame is excellent in a burn build and has the opportunity for good team support. It fulfills its niche very well and is a staple in my burn guard’s repertoire.

FT deals 10 attacks over 2.5 seconds. Even a 0.5 second burn per attack makes for 5s worth of burning (over 3 seconds, which means it’s burstier). With 100% burn duration, that’s now 10s equivalent. 1s per tick with 100% duration is a disgusting 20s worth of burning over 3.5s. That would exist under far less investment then any other burn focused build. Such a change would upset balance with the other burn capabilities engineer has.

You would need 1/4s durations which would still provide 100% uptime base, but not get ridiculous when other factors are added.

If you don’t already know, what you really want to do is make the cheapest set of ascended armor possible, and then mystic forge it into whatever stats you want. This makes Viper much, much cheaper. You could make zerker first, and mess around to see if you like it before converting to viper. If you want to focus on wvw, then you can also convert to celestial if you want.

Specific builds in PvE only matter in raids and T3+ fractals. WvW zerging is all about not dying and group support, and WvW roaming is most relatable to spvp. Consider what you want to do and go from there.

But that’s exactly what Juggernaut doesn’t do.

Marauder trades about 10% damage for 25% health. You’ll only need Berserker in organized pve. While leveling, just grab whatever gives the highest power.

In PvP, Marauder is the preferred power amulet. Celestial doesn’t exist, and everything else sacrifices too much damage. You might be able to get away with Paladins sometimes.

guildabd.6529:

Make it work with all kits:
Elixir gun: Resistance.

Swiggity Swooty

You can tell within the game that you are not firing an object at its actual max range. Rifle being an often quoted example. There are so many abstractions intentionally put, or required, that you can never pick them apart enough. Messing with the number of grenades might be a singular fix, but affects so many other systems it is definitely not worth the change.

2cm per unit is interesting though. That makes grenade toss length at 20yards which I can definitely do, and also means out of combat running speed (300u/s) would be 13.4mph (21.6km/h). But at 2cm/u, why not 1 inch per unit? 900 units would then be 25yds (22.8m), and ooc run speed is 17mph (27.3km/h). All those numbers are relatively within what can be plausible. The abstracted ranges don’t make sense because you can still run 300u/s. That would mean you can run exponentially faster the longer you keep moving.

The discussion has certainly been interesting so far.

Oh yeah, those pre-beta videos. I remember that fan of arrows Ranger skill that never actually existed.

Regarding the triple blast grenade idea, it seems fine on the surface. Mechanically it would do very similar things. However, unlike other 3 radii skills (Wash the Pain Away or Nightfall), it would be more difficult to represent that. Considering teh skil aesthetics GW2 already uses, how do you visually represent how all those areas interact? Especially when you start adding in walls and other complex geometries. Underwater too. Once you go through all that design, is it actually worth spending that development time? Are the improvements of the triple blast worth all the investment compared to tossing 3 current grenades? And of course, if you’re going to do that with Grenades then why not with Bombs, Ranged Bombs Mortar Kit, Turrets, Mines, etc etc. I think the idea works mechanically, but its just not worth the investment compared to the reward.

You make the point about resizing magic, but Bombs definitely support that. The Bomb basket is massive, but could only hold maybe 2 bombs. The actual bombs, which are just smaller objects than the basket, are obviously not the same kind of thing as what you’re holding. (Note, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Basket scales based on race. I’m speaking from a Charr standpoint where the Bombs are about 60% the size of the basket). I mean, Rangers have infinite arrows without quivers. Nothing requires ammo. It isn’t unreasonable in a world such as that to come up with any random explanation to describe what is happening.

But here’s the real fun thing. I decided to see if I could toss grenade-like things with similar accuracy. Ranges in GW2 are abstracted. Grenades can be thrown 900 units, whatever that means. However, I think those units most closely resemble our centimeters. 900 centimeters makes 9 meters, which looks like it fits pretty well. That’s what I assumed to be the case during my test. With three grenade-like objects and a ripcord concept (separation from the cord upon leaving my hand), I could throw those objects 9 meters and they consistently landed within a 1.8m radius (180u) circle. I couldn’t test the frequency of how fast I could throw a second volley, but If we assume the grenade kit’s bunch of grapes are 3 grenades tied together by a single ripcord, it shouldn’t be unreasonable to get close to a character’s fire rate. So that was fun to try. Given that magic exists in Tyria, I can let any weird oddities like that slide because I know there are different rules of nature. Its the same when I play Ace Combat. You regularly equipped with upwards of 88 missiles and maybe 16 bombs. That doesn’t fly in the real world, but its commonplace and expected over their. I don’t let those differences bother me, because when I play those games I’m visiting their world.

Now, back to retaliation. I think the best fix is to increase the per tick damage, but limit the amount of procs per second. I haven’t been able to find really good numbers for that idea yet, but I think that’s the design direction the fix should go. Retal is generally considered worthless until you start getting extremely high hits per minute in an aoe. Then it’s completely ridiculous. For engineer it unfairly targets Grenades and FT (especially FT holy cow), but other than those instances, it isn’t seen as threatening or something that could be built around. If its supposed to be a reactionary defense, then it needs to pack more punch. If its supposed to be an almost permanent boon, then it can deal less damage as its DoT potential will be the focus. In any case, it isn’t in a good spot as is.

All my characters have names that reference Fish, the class/race, and another video game.

For my three Mesmers, their names are:
Monarch Rhizopas – Monarch because of the butterflies, Rhizopas being a fish-like boss in Final Fantasy 6
Demyx Orizias – Demyx is a character from Kingdom Hearts 2 (will fit a bard theme whenever we get that espec). Oryzias is the genus for the Ricefish
Alicia Corniger – Alicia referencing Valkyria Chronicles and Corniger, the genus of the Spinycheek Soldierfish (this character was meant to be in the frontlines)

I have, at the time of the writing, 25 characters, and they all follow this format.

I don’t recall Grenades ever being just one. It was always double with a trait for a third.

However, from a design standpoint as opposed to an aesthetic one, Grenades allow for a different playstyle to Bombs. That there are three allows for a better likelihood of that damage landing, as even one or two grenades will be better than the binary nature of a single object. It also provides better synergy with crit and apm effects. Grenade Kit is a middle ground between Bomb Kit and Flamethrower. Just because Retaliation is strong against something its designed to be strong against doesn’t mean anything drastic needs to happen. I’ll agree Retal hits Nades and FT harder than it might need to, but that’s a relatively simple fix. There are plenty of ways to make Retaliation more meaningful while also removing the disparity between FT auto and Gravedigger Spam.

From an aesthetic standpoint, Nade kit is still fine. With all the crazy magic that’s infused in the daily lives of Tyrians, it isn’t unreasonable to create scenarios where tossing three nades at once works. The end result already works and doesn’t need argued. Perhaps its just simple resizing magic, or they’re all on piano wire, or perhaps its a multi-stage casing that releases 3 warheads to its target. Any of those options and more work to satisfy the “how does it happen?”. Not everything needs a good explanation, because Tyria operates on different forces than ours. It’s unnecessary to expect everything to conform.

Hybrid Roaming Guard

This is similar to what one of my Guardians runs. It plays similarly to the normal Meditrapper, but with Burns instead of crits. Purging Flames is literally the burn version of Test of Faith, and with Radiance and Fury you get +45% crit chance for basically free. When on Sword you have a Burst every 10s by double throwing Zealot’s Fire. Purging Flames has long duration burns, so use that offensively when condition clears have been used up. I put Focus in the build, but I personally run shield and it works just as well. I picked Litany of Wrath over Shelter because I like how it synergizes with the build better, but especially if you’re fearing a lot of burst (and not running Focus) swap the heal to Shelter. Also for Sigils, I just added random decent options. Pick any two you like (not just ones I’ve offered) and mirror those between sets.

I have to say, its one of the most fun builds I have.

PierPiero.9142:

Ghotistyx.6942:

Stability in wvw is important though.

FT can work well as power or condition (best for zerging and roaming respectively). It’s main issue in zerging is retaliation, which is dangerous enough to drive it out. Flame Legion runes are a good option with power FT and might stacking is pretty self explanatory.

In a power setup i find ft a terrible kit. Nades or bombs are much better for a power setup. Taking a setup with power and condi togegher ( sinister or viper) makes you really squishy so it is really hard to use it . I want to see you to kill someone not brainless in 1vs 1 with a power setup and flamethrowers.. i find it really hard. I don’t like zerker engineer becouse i don’t think that there are really viable builds. SD or rifle based build with full berserker are quite weak against strong people and also with hammer i think that the best setup remain marauder or paladin but ft damage in power is quite bad

PierPiero.9142:

I want to see you to kill someone not brainless in 1vs1

Ghotistyx.6942:

It’s main issue in zerging

Only if they hit enemies with retaliation. Its not like Tyrians have been living without that knowledge for years.

I don’t want ricochet back, but I’ll take piercing for specific skills (Unload and Sneak Attack specifically). Unload would probably have to take a damage hit because being able to body block is one of the reasons Unload can be so loaded as a skill in the first place.

Stability in wvw is important though.

FT can work well as power or condition (best for zerging and roaming respectively). It’s main issue in zerging is retaliation, which is dangerous enough to drive it out. Flame Legion runes are a good option with power FT and might stacking is pretty self explanatory.

draxynnic.3719:

Seriously, you’ve got to admit that it’s ridiculous that engineers literally chuck grenades by the handful. It gets defended because that’s what people are used to and stacking the procs from those traits has been one of the best ways for engineers to deal damage in PvE, but that doesn’t stop it from being silly.

It isn’t though. These aren’t “real” grenades, they’re Tyrian grenades. They don’t have to act anywhere at all like reality. It’s how you get flight sims that load you out with 88 missiles and have you shoot down ICBM silos from the inside, all while flying licensed F-22s and Su-47s in the same squadron.

Grenades are familiar, but physics don’t convert 1:1 between different worlds. Skimpy armor still effectively protects because armor had been abstracted through magic. It’s how Rangers and Warriors can bounce and boomerang Axes and Greatswords. But apparently palming grenades is where suspension of disbelief happens. Not anywhere else in a game that already displays how its physics and natural laws work.

I have a feeling it works just like Hidden Killer. Only the first valid proc activates. With Sneak Attack you at least get 5 chances to make it work.

Mighty Favazz.1546:

Ghotistyx.6942:

Many classes can destroy themselves with Retal. Engi just happens to have 2 well known examples.

What skills compare with FT AA or nades?

Eles complained about Meteor Shower and Ice Bow 4, Guards complained about Smite, Rangers had piercing Rapid Fire, Mesmers had Mind Wrack, etc. They might not hit nearly as frequently as nades or FT, but they were enough for a slew of complaints that helped reduce Retal in pvp and wvw by 33%.

I’ve been a fan of removing that damage reduction and instead limiting the rate at which you can proc Retal from the same source like stab. I feel like Retal deserves to be a real deterrent, but also not get proc 50x(250+ damage) every 2.5s (or faster with quickness). Retal has the potential to be one of the biggest bursts in the game, but always in a negative fashion.

Many classes can destroy themselves with Retal. Engi just happens to have 2 well known examples.

It isn’t 11.8% on every hit, just on eviscerate. Other skills will have different numbers. And 6500 health is a fairly significant chunk. It would be more rare than not that you actually get hit for that much, which means you’re surviving many, many more hits than just one additional. Full Marauder will beat full Zerk in a mirrored input battle.

Full Marauder over full Zerk, specifically on Eviscerate, is an 11.8% damage loss for an exchange of 24.8% additional health. Unless you’re in organized PvE where you’re already likely to hit the 100% crit cap, Marauder has much better defense for the cheaper damage trade-off.

Pregnantman.8259:

Should be even more with Permeating Wrath. I sometimes use it in my build with pugs, and it usually tops me at might with Zealous Scepter, stacks a lot of Cripple with Zealot’s Aggression and a hefty amount of Vulnurability if I use Dulled Senses.

Dont get me wrong; Torch 5 is good for F1 procs and 4th skill is good damage, the weapon just needs some polish in its practical use, and have a more refined role than damage/burning like our other offhands.

It hits 3 targets 10 times. With PW that’s 10 stacks to 5 targets. Cleansing Flame was designed to burn in conjunction with VoJ passive, so improving that with PW will make it very useful to a burn guard. The cleansing portion is something that could be looked at, but its difficult to determine where to go. A self+ally cleanse of 3 is very frequent and strong with a 12s cd, but if its dropped to 2 or 1 (to make the rate more fitting to other cleansing skills), then the 9 ally only condition cleanse is probably better. Torch really just needs QoL adjustments rather than large overhauls.

Lightsbane.9012:

a necromancer with stability.

Do you rp as a pve mob? Because dazes don’t prevent movement, and stability won’t protect you from immobilize.

Guardian has a strong presence in every game mode. Rev is still alright in most places, and mesmer has specific roles to fill. Any option will be a good one. My advice is to have one of each class. Even if you don’t use them all, it’s much easier to swap as necessary with all the account bound things.

Dazes don’t prevent movement, but a 5v1 is a problem for anyone, especially when its against a disruptive class like thief. Its a bad situation for anyone without an excape fallback like SMC nearby, not just a necro specific problem.

Torch 5 already provides 10 stacks of burning to 5 targets when fully supported.

Unless you’re raiding, or anywhere else you’ve got full pve buffs, Marauders is going to serve you better than Berserker. You only lose a bit of damage for much better defense.

An evade during the channel is not a good solution, especially with the increased movement speed it just gained.

Projectile block follow by reflect would be best.

Lightsbane.9012:

love that. it’s why i’ve all but stopped maining the class in wvw.
anet seemed to believe that it was a good idea to make a class so vulnerable to interrupts that in a scenario like this, many of the other classes would be able to escape, but not necromancer.

Exactly who do you expect to run away from 5 thieves?

Don’t trip on that Hubris

The only thing I would change is revert the 240 toughness on the trait back to 180 and swap the Shield and Focus traits. That would help Shield, Focus, and Retributive Armor.

And popping Shield of Absorption does feel like it should be a blast finisher, so I can’t complain about wanting that

I don’t know if he still does, but I found some Seigerazor sanctuary bubbles that were close enough to ping-pong between. A few of us were having fun when I got stuck between them and died to a passing group.

This post is like, 3 years late.

You should call your internet service provider. Swallows carrying the text in coconuts would’ve arrived faster.

Eleazar.9478:

Lb with mm line lead the wind makes your arrows pierce (why dh gets this as baseline and we don’t aggravates the he’ll out me)

Well, their auto can only hit 2 targets max while LtW allows for 5 at 1500 range, so stay mad I guess.

I made some updates because I only recently realized I had some text and formatting errors (embarrassing!). I also changed the name to be a little more precise. I have a specific idea in my head concerning the elite spec, and its difficult to really put that concept into words. It certainly doesn’t help when terms you wanted to use are already representing something else.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Overall, a lot of individual good ideas here and there but I felt that most of the elite specs fell flat because they broke this very reasonable rule: As any elite specialization, it needs to work with core mesmer skills and traits and if possible have synergies with them! Or they were just hella OP. In the end my personal two favorites were decided because they work with the base class, rework the F1-F4 instead of giving a new F5, overall balance is sound and a they add a new feel/flavor and I could actually see myself using these in both PvE and PvP.

I’d also be interested in feedback, as I specifically made sure my ideas had at least one way to interact with each core Mesmer spec. I also tried to run a few things through different scenarios to make sure things didn’t get crazy. I’m interested in hearing what parts people didn’t like and why. It doesn’t just have to be duck, I’m eager to hear all criticism.

Someone asked me for a stupid build so I gave them this. They actually made it and said they loved it, so ymmv.

Huskyboy.1053:

Not sure if this is a legit comparison or a complaint. Steal is a profession mechanic, it should be OP compared to a normal weapon skill.

That’s a pretty poor way of looking at it

Well, with Ventari specifically the baller tree created the Sylvari (as opposed to just mordremoth minions) and his tablet seems to be quite magical itself.

I like what little lore of the Wardens we have, but I personally don’t think Urgoz resonates as easily as other options. If the Wardens got expanded upon, then sure. It would certainly be more topical to get a legend at the same time as additional lore.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Buddy.7563:

Man, I’ve been out of the scene for a while now it seems. The meta used to be the underboob thief.

They are still around, but what ever gender/race the meta are skarffs with sun glasses.

What about underboob/scarf/sunglasses? You don’t lose a lot by going underboob compared to other viable options and you provide more group synergy. Then again, I like to be off-meta and run Female Hexed Outfit because I’m lazy.

Another fun but niche situation is pairing X/Torch and X/Axe. There’s a lot of fire bolts to be had, and even better mobility to keep that combo on target.

That title pun tho

Pyre led the Charr rebellion against the Shaman Caste system. They bound the entire race underneath world-destroying “gods” and prevented females from having any appreciable role in society (if you’re into that sort of thing). He’s the one that helped Charr become the atheist race they are today.

Master Togo was Headmaster at Shing Jea Monastery. He negotiated peace treaties between the Tengu and Humans, ending the Tengu war, and twice negotiated peace between the Kurzicks and Luxons to help defeat Shiro. He had Imperial blood, and was finally enshrined in Tahnnakai Temple with the other historical heroes of Cantha.

If anything, we can agree Revenants aren’t short of options to revere.

I think we’ve all had enough updated skill tooltips that we won’t be needing any rewords for awhile.

I play all gamemodes. PvP the least

They didn’t specifically mention that damage and boons would be changed just for the Mesmer and Rev, only that there would be changes. The only changes we know about are Facet of Nature, SoI, and Druid heal scaling. Anything more specific is conjecture until tomorrow.

A future elite spec wouldn’t be able to take Druid, so there’s that.

I also played Druid in WoW, but its an empty endeavor to try and mix two different lore together and have it be officially supported. Such an idea doesn’t mesh with GW2 design.

And yet, you still need people to rez

This is a good change. I’ve always been a proponent fit lowering base and increasing scaling to make specialization more important. There now will be distinct differences between healing druids and non-healing druids.

Yes; Aegis, Protection, and Regen. If you don’t already have an answer for Prot and Regen, it doesn’t really matter how much they have. Aegis just needs a poke to go away. And again, it requires revives. If they want to build to be the best revivers they can definitely do that. It relies on their group coming from a place of weakness to take advantage of. Either kill their downs or remove their boons. Guardians cannot share their boons beyond the skill’s mechanics. It’s like complaining about Warriors getting too much Might or Eles sharing too many auras because of all the revives they’re performing. The opportunity cost is a successful revive. That can cost a lot to accomplish.

The Heal Mantra synergizes well with Inspiration’s Adept Minor, doubling as a good personal condition clear. It also synergizes well with “on heal” rune effects (as does traited Mirror)