Guild Wars 2

I would imagine, Knote, that the post was intended to counterbalance the lopsided nature of forum feedback.

Birdy.4816:

Hawken.7932:

Birdy.4816:

Hilarious reading all the defender responses in this thread.

You all claim “Guild Wars has no grind, its all about the fun, you don’t need to grind anything”

Yet when he suggests lowering costs so that the grind isnt there and you get rewarded in a fun way – you all attack him and say “QQ you want good gear in a week, there ar eno raids why would you want gear?”

why do anything in this game then? your all so hypocritical its insane, I’ve had such a good laugh.

If you find it hilarious, then I’ll add another bit of comedy for your amusement.

I believe that the difference in Guild Wars 2 is that you indeed are not required to do any sort of grind, but you are provided a lot of long term goals for your character to tweak their looks. Why are you not required like in other MMOs? It’s a very simple answer, and that is because there is no gated content.

You could take WoW or Rift as an example, as they are both built on structure of tiered raiding at endgame, which “requires” a grind in order to participate in the next tier of content.

I believe a lot of people mistook what Arenanet said when they talked about “removing the grind”… in my opinion, they were removing the gating and forced grinds, and then also allowing all content in the game to be opened up for max level players so that those players could then sample from the great buffet. One day do dungeons, another day to WvWvW, another day return to other areas to work DEs for karma, another day work on crafting. This is a pretty admirable design, in my mind.

Could you seriously look me in the eye though and say the long term goals in Guild Wars 2 are fun compared to other MMO offerings? could you REALLY?

And be brutally honest, this token grind is herroundous, coupled with the dungeons being mediocre. LEgendary farming is one of the most “no lifer” grinds in existant and is alot worse than say WoW’s which requires a team of dedicated players to complete tough challenges…. not grind 1000-2000 ore ect ect.

The problem isn’t the long term goals for any of us, they should always exist, the problem is Guild Wars 2 “longterm endgame goals” are so flat and lame.

I’ve played most major MMOs over the last 10 years, and yes I could look you in the eye (looking in eyes) and say that the rewards here are fine. They’re mostly cosmetic, which is a different approach, and I’m okay with that. If you don’t like the content, then I guess it’s time for you to move on. I personally find the content to be very exciting, very fresh and a lot of fun. I enjoy the dungeons when I get in with a good group — they’re challenging and interesting. I come from a raiding background in other games, so I’m always looking for the challenging content, and the rewards — though necessary — are not the only driving factor. Working together with other people who love their class and strive to be better is a big part of what gives me pleasure in a game.

As for legendaries, you and other people I’ve seen complaining on these boards seem to believe that they are a goal to be attained by every player within a month for some reason. Let’s assume this game is to be around for a few years — I believe they are intended for completionists to strive for over the long term, hence why their stats are negligibly different than exotics. IF they had higher stats or gave a greater advantage versus exotics and the grind was what it was, then I’d be unhappy.

Overall I find the goals to be surprisingly motivating (I used to think the lack of tiered content was a downside, but I’m coming around to this new design). So do most people in my very large guild, so I guess they’ve done something right.

Birdy.4816:

Hilarious reading all the defender responses in this thread.

You all claim “Guild Wars has no grind, its all about the fun, you don’t need to grind anything”

Yet when he suggests lowering costs so that the grind isnt there and you get rewarded in a fun way – you all attack him and say “QQ you want good gear in a week, there ar eno raids why would you want gear?”

why do anything in this game then? your all so hypocritical its insane, I’ve had such a good laugh.

If you find it hilarious, then I’ll add another bit of comedy for your amusement.

I believe that the difference in Guild Wars 2 is that you indeed are not required to do any sort of grind, but you are provided a lot of long term goals for your character to tweak their looks. Why are you not required like in other MMOs? It’s a very simple answer, and that is because there is no gated content.

You could take WoW or Rift as an example, as they are both built on structure of tiered raiding at endgame, which “requires” a grind in order to participate in the next tier of content.

I believe a lot of people mistook what Arenanet said when they talked about “removing the grind”… in my opinion, they were removing the gating and forced grinds, and then also allowing all content in the game to be opened up for max level players so that those players could then sample from the great buffet. One day do dungeons, another day to WvWvW, another day return to other areas to work DEs for karma, another day work on crafting. This is a pretty admirable design, in my mind.

They did not remove long term goals, of course, and this is a good thing. Without long term goals… (and to me the prices seem just fine), people would quickly abandoned the game and declare that there was nothing to do.

Vendor blues. Do DEs. I’ve never had to play the TP market or do anything special to earn money. I’ve always kept my tradeskills and skill books up to date, and all I’ve done is break down white gear into mats, and vendor all the blue items I get (ie. don’t break those down). Always have enough money, personally. This is on 3 different characters, so it’s obviously not a fluke on one toon alone.

Kasama.8941:

In one word; achievements. Achievements has ruined a lot in gaming in my opinion. Many people have forgotten that awards were created as a tool to give us a reason to come back to a game. It started as something as simple as wanting to beat your own high score, but it has completely taken overhand today, and turned into a system of control that many developers misuse. The thing is, when you feed people an achievement every five minute, they will get addicted to that feeling of getting a dog biscuit every time they preform a trick, and then expect to be awarded the same way in other games as well. This becomes so addicting for some people, that they focus all their attention on getting awards, while totally neglecting whether or not they’re actually having any fun. So much so that fun almost becomes another word for ‘work’ to them. Fun is almost a waste of their time.

The thing with Guild Wars 2 is just that it’s based more around the word ‘fun’, then it is about awards. Or in other words; Guild Wars 2 is about the journey, not the destination. That’s why people who tend to not like Guild Wars 2, are those who rush to level 80 and then asks “where is the end game?”. They’ve been “brainwashed” into thinking that gaming is just a place to make you feel good for the things you achieve, rather then the fun you experience. So don’t worry about what others think, if you’re a casual player, you are in the right place.

Yes, so agree. Some people — and I do believe this isn’t the majority, the majority is just enjoying the game — are only in it for the trinket, it seems. My experience so far in GW2 is just so enjoyable, for the fun factor of playing alone.

I’ll confess that usually in MMOs I’m a rush to max level kind of guy, because generally speaking the questing in most mmo dries up for me around level 30, even though I start out trying to focus on the lore and story being presented. This time around, I find that I really am drawn into the world to such an extent that I’m just not stressing about getting to max level — so I believe Anet has achieved what they set out to do in a bit way.

Serenity.5108:

im going to get a legendary weapon and it will take me probably well over a year.

and i don’t care.

if i want something i will work hard for it as it should be.

the game is only a grind if you make it one. no one is putting a gun to your head telling you to grind for the weapon that you want. there are plenty of other easily obtainable weapons in the game and the only reason many of you guys want this weapon is because its difficult to obtain. if this weapon was simple you guys would not even be after it and also probably complain of the lack of rare weapons.

i apologize for the lack of caps as my left shift is not working and i am not used to the right one yet.

Agreed, Serenity. I think people miss the point in the design for Legendaries. They are obviously not intended for everyone to get. I believe that’s the reasoning behind them not having much different stats than the exotics, rather they are for the completionists to strive for in the long term.

Yeah I agree, Wyvers. It is a fresh take, and for once I think Anet’s success rides on their ability to not cave in to the vocal minority and instead stay true to their intended design.

I’ve found that prices, both in terms of training book costs and the occasional thing I buy from the TP, are amazingly well balanced to the money that I took in while leveling up. I found that I just… just always had the money that I needed at the right time, without a ton to spare. That’s a pretty remarkable thing, as usually in MMOs it’s pretty lopsided in one direction or the other (usually too rich or too poor).

This is while leveling up my tradeskills along the way and by keeping my gear up to date as much as possible. I used to make the mistake when I first started playing of salvaging my blue drops, but when I started vendoring them, most of my money problems went away.

All of this combined with the economy of the Trading Post being a bit out of wack (in my opinion), I’d say the money balance is pretty ok. That said, there are definitely people who have found ways to profit hugely in the young economy (some people are just good at this, both in games and real life).

ref.8196:

Smitt.8602:

I agree it is very grindy. I would like to see universal tokens instead of a different type for each dungeon. I would also like it if it only took around 20 runs for a full set of exotics.

But then people would choose the easiest path out of the 34 or so paths and farm it to death, then continue complain about the grind.

Unfortunately that is exactly what would happen and exactly why they all have different tokens. The speed farmers/levelers/grinders all gravitate towards the one that they can speed-farm the fastest.

Yeah, so great! (was a real pain before… especially with cooking).

zydal.2790:

I’ve done some jumping puzzles with friends. You know what my reward was? The hours I spent truly enjoying a game with my friends. Laughing as I watched my friends miss a jump, not bother repairing, and try the same jump naked. Laughing as I dodge roll off of a cliff instead of jump. The chests are secondary, and I’d be fine if they completely remove them tbh.

Yeah, this exactly. People seem overly obsessed by huge rewards. I’ve had some great fun in those puzzles and the loot was secondary. Also you can re-do all of them, and get those small loot rewards each time you go, so they’re just a nice bit of money as a reward for going.

aeonZgamer.5307:

SirMoogie.9263:

Khristophoros.7194:

SirMoogie.9263:

Khristophoros.7194:

I like the idea of scaling the costs based on zone level rather than player level. I think that would pretty much fix it.

This seems like a good suggestion, if the dynamic events have their awards shifted to compensate.

I’ve tried doing some lower level events on my currently level 70 character. Sure I get more exp than I did at lower levels (2000+ for lowest level events) but that is a very small amount of experience for a level 70 character. I can get that amount of experience by hitting a few gather points in a 60-70 zone. The rewards actually don’t scale that well for low level events. I don’t think it would need a change.

What I meant was if costs are being shifted to higher level zones that were once had by going to any zone, the higher level zones may need their currency generating content shifted upward to compensate for the increased costs for traveling to and within those zones, and the lower level zones may need their currency generating rewards lowered. This ensures that it isn’t prohibitive to explore any zone at any level.

Maybe they should honestly
I see on the Forums and in-game so much that the top level zones are no fun and are extremely hard with little to no gains whatsoever

You may see it, but it’s not true

I agree. I was going to make a similar post just now, but nice that you did it first.

I can imagine that, despite the fact that Arenanet likely understands this vocal minority crowd would storm the forums with their end-of-the-world complaints, it still must be a tiny bit disheartening to hear all of the QQ.

I think they’ve made an amazing game, with a depth and attention to detail that allows their collective passion for what they were building shine through. I find the combat fun and interesting and the world amazing to explore. So refreshing to see a PvE environment built with such a strong emphasis on exploration.

There are a lot of small areas within the game which need to be iterated on, but I think the most important (and amazing) thing to remember is that this is just the freakin RELEASE content. This is just the backbone of systems that Anet can now build upon for the future, and that is the really exciting part to me.

Khristophoros.7194:

Hawken.7932:

I disagree. I used to think that waypoints would ruin the immersion of the game, but they are a “convenience” not the primary mode of travel. You’re intended to use your feet to travel around and be part of the world — and if the cost of the waypoints was trivial, the game would turn into a lobby game where you just choose a level to play and teleport. Walking, you become part of the world and community within the game. Teleporting, you are just part of the zerg who arrives and an event is called out on /map.

That’s why scaling based on zone level is a good idea. It would keep the zerging under control for higher level areas. In lower level areas it’s obviously not an issue because the costs are so low at lower levels and yet people aren’t zerging everything really hard.

I think that’s a fair suggestion, but in practice I would guess the effect would be that it encouraged the “zergers” just go and zerg around the lower level zones all the time.

I really think this is just one of those things which needs the economy to stabilize — ie. people are crying a lot because the real issue is that it’s difficult at the moment to make money, so 1s seems like a lot. Anet is obviously aware that the economy is in trouble, as they posted as much, so I think likely this big concern will just go away.

I find the rewards from the puzzles alright, personally. As always with drops, the loot is random, so sometimes I’ve gotten some good greens and other times I’ve gotten blues. Personally I consider the blues just bonus money, and are vendored, so in all it’s a bit of money and some fun. I don’t really know what people expect. None of the puzzles are really that difficult, imho.

I disagree pretty well with the OP. All of the things which you call a grind, I just call nice long term goals which I will complete at my leisure. You’re calling “grind” after a few paltry weeks of play, when the economy is not yet up on its feet. It’s ridiculous. I seriously can’t understand this mindset of people who want everything now now now… just chill out and play the game and stop obsessing about the fact that you can’t have top tier gear and legendaries right away. The game is in its infancy, and those items are meant to be rewards which you will attain “some day”… not through a powergrind by next week.

I disagree. I used to think that waypoints would ruin the immersion of the game, but they are a “convenience” not the primary mode of travel. You’re intended to use your feet to travel around and be part of the world — and if the cost of the waypoints was trivial, the game would turn into a lobby game where you just choose a level to play and teleport. Walking, you become part of the world and community within the game. Teleporting, you are just part of the zerg who arrives and an event is called out on /map.

Brick Mantooth.9520:

I think we can all agree, using the tp to store items by devaluing them to near worthless is a pretty dumb move.

Seriously, putting items up on TP and then taking a fee cancelling the order in order to just sell them at the vendor? Why not just vendor them when you’re crafting them?? Every profession table has a vendor right there…

But honestly, it doesn’t even come close to ruining the economy. The components that these items are made from are just as valuable, since they are required to level up the profession in the first place.

Because crafted items aren’t the only source drops? I get a ton of drops just from doing general PvE. Personally it doesn’t clutter up my bags that much, as I have purchased two bag slots and am pretty regularly vendoring things out in the field, but I could imagine people doing this.

Still I’m playing devil’s advocate here a little bit, because I don’t really believe this is the source of all of the crap on the TP. I’ve thought so far that it was either #1 – the number of people too lazy (or stupid) to try and set their stuff at a profitable price far outnumber those who aren’t, or #2 — the gold sellers are spamming the TP with stuff set at the lowest price to flood the market and keep it flooded.

I don’t know if that’s a conspiracy theory or not, but honestly gold selling is a huge business and don’t underestimate those people at doing whatever it takes to break the economy and drive people to their services.

Edit: just to add, it’s not exclusively crafted items which are on the TP at the lowest price — virtually any drop that I find in the field (even the mastercraft ones) are on the TP for 1 above vendor price.

Brick Mantooth.9520:

Conspiracy theory abounds…

People built up inventory over a week of the TP being down to the point where it was filling their banks. The TP opens up and people, trying to undercut each other with a huge glut of the same exact items, end up undercutting each other to the point where they literally aren’t making any money on the deal.

That’s not some evil-genius stragegy of “wrecking the economy”, it’s supply and demand.

Also, even if you accept the premise that people are using the TP for “storage” what reason would you store items that you basically made worthless by listing them for +1c??

In many cases, you’re not making them worthless by putting them at vendor+1, you’re just prohibiting people from buying them up to make a profit from them at the vendor. What people are doing is putting them on the TP for a price at which they can’t even make money (because the TP takes a cut), and then cancelling the orders when they get to town so that they can then vendor them. They take a small loss, but not as much loss as if they had to destroy them to make room in their bags.

Yeah I agree, sticky would be nice.

Keziah.2653:

Seriously — posting a -1 copper under vendor is not a good idea.

Guys, go to the GW2 wiki and read up on the TP. It specifically warns you to NOT post at a +1 copper vendor price because you will LOSE money.

here: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trading_Post

Be careful not to list for so little that you would take home less than you would get by selling the item to a vendor, i.e. never sell for less than 20% more than the item’s value. For example:

An item of 88 bronze coins can be sold on the trading post for 89 bronze coins, but this results in 76 bronze coins (after deducting 9 bronze coins for a successful sale and 4 bronze coins for the listing fee).

If offered for 1 silver coin 6 bronze coins, you would take home 90 bronze coin, 2 bronze coins more than the price the vendor offers (after paying a sales tax of 11 bronze coins, listing fee of 5 bronze coins)

Remember, the TP is shared across ALL servers and the TP was down for over a week and a half. People were crafting and storing up drops just waiting for the TP to come back online and now the market is flooded. Either vendor that stuff, buy more bank space or salvage… but don’t post for +1 or -1 copper vendor price. That’s just silly.

I’m not sure you read the suggestion properly, and I think the OPs solution could work quite well. The idea was aimed at clearing out all of the 1c above vendor items which are cluttering the TP currently.

However, I think there’s still a flaw in that argument. It would technically stand a chance at clearing out all the crap from the TP, but there would be nothing stopping people from continuing the existing practice and setting them for 1 above vendor.

(and I agree, it has occurred to me also that it’s the gold sellers who are doing this deliberately, wrecking the economy for others).

raphaeldisanto.5478:

No, the downscaling is dynamic. Walk across the bridge from Shaemooor VIllage to the Garrison in Queensdale and watch your effective level change, halfway across the bridge.

Is that right? Crazy, I hadn’t noticed that. I stand corrected. Ah well, I guess then my overall impression is that it’s too easy overall then, when down-leveled. Maybe I got that impression because the mobs often have more complex mechanics (slightly… like the Ettins in Queensdale) as you get into harder areas.

brokeit.8346:

I think they should just increase the allowed level difference by a level or 2 to give higher levels a bit more of an advantage in an area without making it overkill. Then you can more easily help your friends and get around easier without being harassed as much by aggro.

You mean “boost” your friend — which is a poor solution and design choice, in my opinion. It’s a concept left over from MMOs in which YOU going into the zone with your friend had no direct reward, other than helping him mow through and get faster XP.

Here you can actually play with him, and have your high level character rewarded for doing so, which is a much better solution. As I said in the reply above this one, I find the downscaled content too easy (and obviously others do as well), and would prefer it was just a tiny bit harder so that the lower level content was even more relevant.

Josh Jelin.5807:

I really like exploring in GW2, but I frequently find that when I find an area that looks cool the rewards for exploring it are tiny compared to the rewards for exploring the “appropriate” area. It feels like the game is punishing me for not exploring it the “right” way. I’d feel much better about exploring low-level areas if my experience rewards were close to the rewards I’d be getting in high level areas.

Additionally, I find that when I travel to a low-level area, the enemies are extremely easy to defeat. I rarely need to do much besides auto-attack. The low-level content could remain a lot more relevant if I were scaled down another two levels. This has the added bonus of making me earn the aforementioned XP boost.

I think scaling experience makes sense and scaling loot does not. It would be a little strange if a level 80 is finding epic swords in Ascalon next to a level 3 finding copper swords. However, if both the level 80 and the level 3 both fight a hard-fought battle to win an event, shouldn’t both of them feel they had a meaningful experience? Experience points (such an apt name!) are a great way to reward this.

I agree with most of what you’ve said. I really find that content is too easy when you’re down-scaled in a low level area, which is a real shame. I think it’s a design dilemma though, and I can understand what’s happening. Currently I guess there’s a base level that you’re downscale to per zone. When you’re originally doing the zone, you’re usually attacking part of that zone which is appropriate to your level, so when level 8 you’re hitting the level 8-10 parts of that zone… when level 10, the 10-12s etc. etc. But when downscaled, I guess you’re set at an average for the whole zone.

This is a bit of a problem from what I see, as then part of the zone you feel overpowered, and maybe the high 25% end of the zone you feel just about right. Not sure what they could do. I personally feel they could downscale us one level more than they do though, as you have to take into account that you have more of your skills and a better understanding of your class when downscaled. Just my observation though.

It is a shame about the XP rewards not being level appropriate. Is that the same as karma rewards for downscaled events? I can’t remember.

martinhjerpe.8214:

Try it again.
It attacks 1 time 100% of the time for me.

Yeah it’s broken for me as well. I wouldn’t say that it happens 100% of the time, but feels like at least half of the time, it will auto-attack after a steal, breaking the traited stealth in this situation.

Great post, hadn’t thought about using Basilisk Venom in that way, thanks.

By worse I think you’re talking about stat-wise. I believe the idea behind these sets is that you’re collecting the appearance of the gear, rather than the raw stats. The appearance can then be transmuted onto whatever.

I think the rewards are fine. You get some random, great drops in the dungeons occasionally, but that’s what dungeons are all about… the “chance” for a great reward.

Compared to almost all MMOs on the market at the moment, the amount of content for leveling alts is pretty massive in GW2. I really can’t understand this complaint/suggestion.

I mean there are 5 low level zones… where perhaps only 1-2 (even 1 if you do a lot of events/crafting/gathering) are necessary for a character to level to 15.

My main character is a thief, and I have definitely thought about this weapon issue a lot while leveling up. Though I strongly feel that the thief could use one more weapon just to add a bit more variety to their play, I can’t think of any of the existing weapons in the game fitting this role very well. Mace… I dunno, you have to also think of the existing mace models in the game. While some would be appropriate, some are just way out of character. A small bludgeon weapon is cool, a big holy looking spikey mace is probably not.

Someone in another post suggested a “whip” as a future weapon for thief, and I totally love that idea

Waypoc.6125:

roocey.7501:

Waypoc.6125:

raphaeldisanto.5478:

Raiding of that style tends to mandate trinity gameplay. I don’t think that would fit in Guild Wars 2. I wouldn’t like to see true tanking and healing in this game. I think it would ruin the unique flavor of the combat.

I disagree. I think PvE as is is fun, but to have the Trinity in a lite version for Raids and dungeons would be a good thing.

I disagree with you. I think each player being capable of bringing healing, support, and damage to the table is what makes PvE in this game fun. I’ll admit I have not had the time to participate in a dungeon yet, but this has held true out in the world (so far, at least).

I should have been clearer. PvE is fine as is. Dungeons are not. They get boring fast. After you play through them and die 30-40 times I believe you may feel differently.

I haven’t experienced that the dungeons are that bad, once you get to know them and the groups start understanding the new dynamics (self-healing, making use of combo fields, staying out of the red stuff™, aggro based on proximity, etc.).

They don’t seem to get boring faster than dungeons in other games, although I haven’t played them all yet so I can’t speak for all of them.

Lorati.7361:

You can have raid-levels of coordination requirements in 5 man content. While I fear for the longevity of the PvE side of this game, I don’t think instanced large group content is the answer.

I don’t really fear for the longevity of the game, as long as they can add new 5-mans over time.

What I would really like to see are world bosses with more complex mechanics (at higher levels) which require traditional raid-type coordination for groups or guilds to tackle. By this I mean boss events with multiple stages, and mechanics which you can’t just “zerg” with a large group.

Maybe there are in fact these types at level cap, though I haven’t heard of them yet. It doesn’t matter to me that there are no instanced raids which require 20 people to complete, but it would be great to have content which was appropriate for big guild runs, etc. with appropriate loot or rewards (even just a big karma / money reward).

SHM.7628:

I don’t like the game adjusting my level for me. When I want to open the map or gather with my level 80, I don’t want to have to fight lower levels. There’s no reward for it.

Yeah… no. The entire game is built around this concept, that would make absolutely no sense.

Totally disagree on waypoints being cheaper/free. At first I thought they would wreck the immersion of the world by allowing you to zoom around the map and therefor make the world feel like a lobby based game where you just pick the area you want to play and zoom around. But as I played further, I realized that you scaled the cost according to our level, which I think is a good solution. I use waypoints when it’s really important to me, but otherwise I just run and have a better chance of stumbling across an event, often resulting in having a lot of “accidental” fun.

I hope the current system remains the same.

Also as others have said, there’s always the option to open your character panel, transport to the Mists (for free), and from there to Lion’s Arch (where all the portals are).

I concur that this is one of the annoying bugs for me currently — that the auto-attack breaks through some stealth abilities. Most notably, the traited stealth on steal (making that traited special almost worthless). Would be wonderful if it could be fixed so that auto-attack is cut off there.

aljar.6970:

I want a whip! They already have whips (if you played a silvary, you’d know, not sure if they can be seen if not) in game, and I loved using one, so just add some whip skills for us!

Oh yes, this.

Kevin.1574:

To be honest the steal skill doesn’t even seem remotely interesting to me as “special skill” Ive had over 100 hours of game play already and have only used the skill 2-3 times just to see what it did. Just the positioning on the screen as well, i just forget it completely.

That is completely ridiculous. It’s extremely powerful, even un-traited, in PvE and pretty OP in PvP. Even as a shadow-step you should be using it constantly. Traited properly it can be giving insanely good group buffs, stealth, a massive burst opener, not to mention the items. You’re ignoring 1/3 of your class, that’s what you’re telling us.

I ran in PvE with d/d and shortbow for the first 40 levels or so, and I thought that was the best combination for most situations (condition… lots of stealth reliance), but then just for variation I switched over to d/d and pistol/dagger. It took some getting used to, but now I’d swear by it for non-group encounters (groups I switch back to shortbow for more support).

Pistol/dagger is just a demon for kiting and evasion. Lay down your bleeds and just leisurely toy with your foe as he drips away…

In PvE, I use Steal whenever it’s up. In a group situation, I am also traiting for “Bountiful Theft” which is a pretty awesome buff to bring to the group, imho.

I find overall in PvE it provides another great tool in our arsenal and some much needed variation to our combat options (with so few weapons).

In PvP, well it’s situational, but also pretty powerful. During beta I didn’t have huge issues with it though haven’t played extensively in PvP since the game went live as I’m enjoying the pve while the initial wave of balancing passes over.

As for during boss fights — we have a lot of ways of getting out of melee range in a blink after stealing, so I’ve never found that much of an issue.

Sadaxer.1023:

Anyone out there crafting to make stuff they can use themselves? You just feel much more proud wearing an armor set you’ve created. Buying the material off the trading post costs a lot though. I’ve wasted around 1g to get 100 levels in leatherworking. Worth it though.

Basically, if you’re gonna start crafting, make sure it’s something that can benefit you and not just hurt your wallet.

I almost always am filling out my gear with self-crafted stuff from leatherworking. I find that I usually get some drops for gear, but otherwise I don’t want to spend the karma or don’t want to pay for it off the TP. Also the crafted gear often looks pretty cool and is less common than other stuff around (at least at my level).

I’d agree, we could use one more weapon just to mix things up a bit. I can’t really suggest what that would be though… maybe axe, though that could perhaps bring us too close to ranger. I guess we can hope for more variety in future updates. This is about the one thing which I feel is lacking in an otherwise awesome and fun profession. We have a lot of different roles to play, but it would be nice to be able to switch up the way in which we play those roles from time to time — something that perhaps another weapon could help with.

Man I disagree with almost all points of your supposed “rework”. I find stealth, as it is, insanely powerful and versatile. It can be traited for multiple purposes (dps boost, aoe heal, etc) and is generally pretty OP right now in WvWvW.

I love my thief the way it is, although I will only say it would be nice to have one more weapon choice, just to mix things up a bit.

I’m always surprised at the number of thieves who say they use Sword/dagger or Sword/pistol… I find sword the slowest and least thief-y feeling of the weapons.. but anyway, to each their own.

Another route is dagger/dagger, and then a ranged set for your other weapon(s). Dagger/dagger provides a great set of tools to survive in PvE — as Death Blossum allows you to lay down a lot of AoE bleed damage on single mobs or groups, and evade their attacks while doing it. Plus, because by its nature it flips you onto the back side of the enemy, it generally takes them some time to re-orient to your new position, and by that time, you’ve either (1) gone into stealth and prepared to slam them with a backstab, (2) rolled out of the way with Roll for Initiative, or (3) flipped into another Death Blossom to yet again disorient and bleed them.

I personally play d/d and d/pistol, and with those weapons, then make use of a lot of stealth and bleeds. Often it feels like you’re just toying around with monsters, downing them at your leisure with that combination

I love how all of the thief forums around a week ago were all full of QQ about how underpowered the thief was, and now it’s QQ oh noes the thief is killing me.

Seriously, the dodge button is your friend. What you’re all missing is the enemy cast bars which are usually present in other games, where here you have to look for the tells in your opponents animations. I play a thief, and the secret is that I’m made of glass, if you can just catch me. But that’s the trick with thief — overwhelm the opponent with whirling animations and fast movements.

ComeAndSee.1356:

Seems like a waste of my time if you need perfect group, perfect spec, lvl 80, and voip to do a low level dungeon that drops crappy loot.

I’m going to pass on this dungeon because from what I’ve been told the lvl 80 ones are faceroll easier and give better rewards.

That’s a shame — as AC is quite fun, and very do-able without much wiping. Rewards and rewards… you know, it’s random. I’ve done AC a couple of times now and gotten some nice rare weapons, and other times with not much. Such is RNG, and so it should be. If you’re giving it a pass, you’re giving up the chance to challenge yourself and strive to work better with your fellow players.

Asthenea.1546:

I wanna hear why you like playing the Thief. What makes you want to go back on and play some more! I just need a little push to finally decide. I wanna join the club…

My personal feeling is that they really nailed a great “feel” for the way that the thief class plays. This is a combination of the very quick animations, moving in and out of smoke/shadow effects, teleporting, etc. it just feels very much like this shark circling its target.

It has a bit of a learning curve at the beginning, because you feel a bit squish until you learn you need to be constantly on the move, constantly moving in and out of your stealth, or in and then away from your target. But that mobility, combined with the animations and effects that go with it, really give it a great vibe.

My only gripe with the thief, and this is a small one, is that we could use a little more weapon variety. I think on the whole, I tend to pick one of a few different setups and run with that (for PvE at least), so it’s not like I want to change things up all the time, but I think the class overall feels… compared to other classes I’ve played… like it could use just the expansion of possibilities that one more weapon could bring to the mix. I’m not sure if one of the existing weapons is appropriate, but that’s just my two cents.

Otherwise, it’s awesome

Foxodi.4809:

I’m even vendoring yellow drops, the economy in GW2 is so unbalanced, and is only made worse by having a hidden 10% sales tax (making a total 15% trading tax). I really need to buy an EvE account.

It’s not hidden — it says it right in the Trading Post where you’re listing your items.

Yeah it’s sad to see that this is true. I had hoped it was just a result of the trading post being down for so long, that inventories had built up hugely and there was a sudden race to the bottom as everyone tried to undercut everyone else.

Hopefully it will improve over time as things level out…

I totally second the motion! I guess maybe I’m also very pro- Arenanet coming up with a nice fishing tradeskill which would provide this type of meat also. Considering how well they did with all of the other mechanics, I know they can do it, and make it more fun than the usual droll design.

KallDrexx.7368:

Honestly, I think most people in this thread are missing the core reason why dungeons are so hard and why there is such a gap between the “lol you guys just suck at the game” people and the “we died infinite # of times” people.

GW2 is a 100% completely different type of game than any other MMO out there, and in Dungeons it really requires having a good grasp on how things are different. The problem is that dungeons are a giant leap in difficulty without there being any middle ground.

Regular PvE is a joke in this game, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. You literally can just run around and just mash buttons and rarely die without truly understanding how your button mashing changed the fight. In regular pve it really doesn’t matter how you play, in almost all cases you will win the fight. The only exceptions to this are champions (which are meant for groups anyways) and some veterans, although most can be handled with ease. The rest of the game lets users explore without being put in any real danger. For the most part you never, ever have to play directly with another person in regular pve.

Then players turn 30, get told they can go to the first dungeon in this game and the player goes YAY, cause lets face it this is the only game that makes you wait 30 levels to go into a dungeon. They get destroyed, find out the reward is only 20 silver or something and say “screw that”.

The core problem is there is no intermediary difficulty in between regular pve and dungeons. There is nothing that really helps you learn your class dynamics in a team environment in a non-frustrating way. There’s nothing that helps teach you “button mashing won’t work, here’s what you need to do” without outright stomping on you, so a lot of players don’t know the actual impact of changing their builds.

There is nothing that shows the benefit of switching some of your +Power armor to +Toughness, and nothing that explains how +Toughness actually improves your character (Yay I got +210 toughness, wtf does that even mean in the actual game).

They really need to work on ramping up the difficulty in some areas so that it’s easier for players to learn group dynamics without getting stomped. Once players get a taste of that and they start understanding how to work in a group, and what different armor actually means for their character then dungeon/raid type gameplay will make sense to everyone much more.

Until then, it will be like my guild where it’s impossible to get a dungeon group going because everyone would rather keep PvEing and make actual progress with their characters than to get steamrolled in a dungeon for very little benefit.

Good post, I think you speak the truth here in many ways. I actually think it’s partly a side effect of the downscaling though. I don’t agree that the PvE world is faceroll, but I’ve noticed a lot of people don’t play the content appropriate to their level. The level 45+ area next to the Charr hometown (forget what it’s called) is prettykittenchallenging if you are doing it at your own level. On the other hand, the downscaling is many times making the PvE a bit too easy, as it feels like you’re playing with a big buff all the time. Coming from THAT to the dungeons is a shock I imagine. I don’t think they should change that, it’s just something to note.

Seriously though, I find all of this complaining quite depressing, and I can see why other devs probably cave in to this kind of thing and water their game down to these easy-mode experiences like wow and rift have. The dungeons are a lot of fun, people just need to understand their class, take their time, and work together.

We ran story mode AC with our guild tonight. This was the second time through it, and we blew through it in about 35 minutes. I don’t know if Anet toned it down or what? But anyway, wasn’t too difficult in my books. We were just careful to do the pulls and such. Last boss was probably the most difficult, but even that wasn’t too bad. I quite enjoyed it. I love the integration of the traps in the dungeon, it gives it a nice touch. Great fun overall – I would say people need to give things some time if they’re having difficulty, it’s a pretty new game to be freaking out so soon.