Guild Wars 2

If you haven’t done them (or reached 80 yet, for some) you’ll want to look into the zone invasions which occur randomly a few times a day, the Claw of Jormag, the Orr temple events, the Karka Queen, the Fire Shaman in Iron Marches, Guild Missions (specifically bounties, puzzles, and challenges), and look forward to the new Tequatl the Sunless fight on the 17th.

stof.9341:

Vol.5241:

They already said the purpose of ascended was to bridge the wide gap.

I’m pretty sure the sheer cost of making one ascended weapon (around 200g for craft and 40g in mats after) is actually widening the gap between me and a Legendary.

Wait, why wouldn’t you just go straight for the legendary if you’re working toward one?

Raine.1394:

Mada.5319:

Is it really that hard? I mean, I log on and do my daily however I want and I get ascended gear out of it. I don’t call that a grind. It’s time gated yeah, but its not like it’s such a major stat buff that I can’t get groups or I’ll die without it….

Why would you ever work toward something that was insignificant? What’s the incentive of spending your laurels on more power if the power increase is so low as to be insignificant?

Anet did not implement vertical progression to provide the player base with an insignificant stat increase. They implemented it to provide players with a non-optional power curve for the players to climb. That’s the purpose of VP and why game developers use it. If you understand a number series (1,2,3,4,…n) then you understand VP and you also know that the offer it makes can’t be refused.

You may not call it a grind, but in game design theory it is the very definition of a gear grind.

Actually they very specifically and very deliberately provided players with an optional power curve.

What evidence do you have to the contrary?

I take it you haven’t experienced a Karka Queen hunt this week, Raine?

It’s pretty silly and unwarranted to assume that it is merely an aversion to challenge in the open world, unrelated to relative and absolute reward for time invested, that influences the popularity of content.

Balthazar and Grenth were recently given additional rewards, but so were the other Orr temples, so there is no incentive for time invested over doing Lyssa, Mel and Dwayna (unless you really just need to unlock their vendors). As a result, they remain unpopular in comparison to the others- and while I welcome and enjoy the challenge from both and the opportunity to complete them with coordination as a guild, slightly higher rewards to reflect their difficulty would be appropriate.

But what of the Karka Queen? Well, her rewards were substantially buffed… and as a direct result the event has been completed more times in the last 3 days than in the preceding 2 months. So generally speaking I’m not sure how much water your argument holds. There’s a perfectly valid place for highly challenging, highly rewarding open world PvE content and people will flock to it- especially if, as in the case of zone invasions as well as the new Tequatl fight this thread is about- threshold rewards ensure that you get something for the time invested even if you fail.

Gizmo.8623:

EDIT:
And I tremble before a situation that we get anoter 2-week life span piece of story that will require us having ascended weapon. This day I will throw GW2 box into trash can (or out of window).

Not going to happen.

Actually…

With the coming Tequatl fight, no loot will drop from any mobs during the fight. Then, upon successful completion, you’ll get everything you would have received from those kills all in one big orgy of loot in addition to the guaranteed rewards.

It would make a lot of sense, in my opinion, to implement this scenario for both the Claw of Jormag- giving some explanation to the presence of non-loot-dropping Champs- as well as the Scarlet invasions, eliminating the problem of stalling or preventing event success in favor of farming. The outcome of the Claw fight should also be slightly more rewarding- this occurred a little bit with the inclusion of Dragonite Ore, but an extra rare and a Gilded Strongbox certainly wouldn’t hurt.

Having thus adjusted the rewards for the Claw, I actually think the fight itself is pretty well-done.

Nope. It is, however, possible you misinterpreted GW2’s “target group” (or did yourself a disservice by beginning with the premise that there is a single one at all).

Took me forever to figure out what you were even talking about from the first post! The title of your thread is misleading as well by the way… I got both of those rings before laurels even existed.

Anyway they’re not “basically worthless” just because they no longer provide a few percentage points of Magic Find. In terms of stats that actually affect your capabilities they are worth exactly the same as before. Hey, I wish that each stat got an an extra point or something out of the equation too, but c’est la vie. It’s boggling it could affect your enjoyment this much!

As someone with an utterly “take it or leave it” approach to Ascended Gear (I would love a game with GW2’s scope that didn’t even employ levels or armor stats, for the record), I must admit that there’s a bit of subtle brilliance in introducing the materials needed to craft ascended gear into almost every area of existing content in the game, including those previously considered to be the most lacking in any meaningful rewards. And rather than enabling you to do something new that you weren’t able to do without it, your Ascended weapons will actually wind up coming as an additional reward for doing the content you enjoy and will continue to do with one in hand.

Put another way: if you’re not in an absolute rush to get it as quickly as humanly possible, you will literally acquire all the material components necessary for your weapons over time just by playing the game as you would even if ascended weapons didn’t exist. Ultimately, the true irony is that getting your crafting profession to 500 is by far the most onerous part of getting the weapons… but that only has to be done once.

It’s been pretty nice to see how this has revitalized content areas that were more or less constantly unpopular, as well as upped the populations present at those that had more recently been abandoned. When the in-game LFG comes in 12 days, I think we might really see some cool stuff. I know I’ll be taking random people to see Zho’Qafa Catacombs and the Flame Temple Tombs when I’m bored.

Charr footprints are still backwards eh? Wonder what the story behind that bug is.

Mesket.5728:

Then you are probably more like me when it come to compare “play style” but that doesn’t mean my analogy is incorrect. We all have our “own cheese” to pursue in this game, it’s probably not the same for everyone. You only need to read the map chat or the forums to realize that most players are in fact looking for the fastest way to accrue gold and the problem starts when the fastest path to achieve this is through farming. This is what content designers should be looking at instead of more glow and FX on skins.

I think I’m getting your point but I also think you’re making a number of logical lapses.

1. If by “own cheese” you mean “something you get out of playing” then I misinterpreted your analogy. I interpreted it to mean “a tangible reward, without which players would not participate.” Typically, in MMOs this is embodied by gear with higher statistical values attached, and in your example, accruing gold for whatever purpose. If “enjoying yourself” counts as my “cheese” then I’m a mouse too; but the cheese and the maze are one and the same.

2. Neither map chat nor the forums (and especially not the forums) nor your individual guild or group of friends, nor any individual server, nor any other subset of the playerbase should ever be used as an indication of what “most players” are looking for.

3. The instances you’ve seen of people looking only for the fastest method of acquiring gold regardless of other factors are self-selecting. I.e. only the people who fall into that category are the ones talking about it. You don’t get an impression of how many people out there don’t care about it primarily or don’t care about it at all.

4. By the fastest path to achieve gold being through farming, one assumes you mean repeatedly running COF1 as quickly as possible? In terms of being something the content designers should look at- the viability of this style of acquisition is going to be severely reduced in 5 days… so it’s not as if it’s not on their minds, right?

Tolmos.8395:

Yea, I agree with the mentality. I never plan to get a legendary, but I’m glad they exist for those who want something to work towards. I think they should put out more Legendaries, though. Just 1 of each weapon kinda sucks, especially when some of those weapons I wouldn’t even buy if they were cheap exotics…

Definitely. I wager more Legendaries are coming.

Hix.8925:

The mind boggles that you stopped there and didn’t read the very next line which discusses why that concept isn’t enough, with regards to MMOs in particular.

You’re referring to the sentence beginning “many people”?

sbr.8170:

I can’t find it right now, but there was a line, maybe from the Manifesto?, where they said grinding for purely cosmetic items is OK..

f someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game.

Makes sense to me

Hix.8925:

- At which point, due to “horizontal progression” there is nothing left to do other than go for specific gear items which you think look good, or enjoy playing for the sake of playing since there are no rewards left to entice you

The mind boggles at this absolutely unfathomable concept

Mesket.5728:

At the end, we are all mice looking for that cheese in a maze, but it is up to the maze designers to make that fun, you can’t blame the mouse for choosing the fastest path.

It’s pretty important to note that not everyone feels this way, and that Guild Wars 2 caters explicitly, however you might feel, to those who do not.

If I feel like a rat in a maze, I stop playing. Games that evoke that sensation do not appeal to me. Your analogy casts us all as mice, and claims that the average mouse can’t blame the other mice for seeking the path of least resistance.

But I have no problem begrudging players for being mice at all. I don’t speedrun COF1. When I run COF1, I don’t care what classes are in my party or what gear those party members are wearing. I don’t enslave myself to repeating content I don’t want to do because I am in search of some “cheese” that I feel I require to make the experience worthwhile. There are plenty of others like me out there as well.

This is where comments about Guild Wars 2 being designed as “grindy” or catering to addicts (or whatever equivalent inanity strikes you as relevant to this discussion) fall apart for me. I wouldn’t enjoy the game if it actually were those things, because I’m not the right type of gamer.

Put another way: I don’t want ArenaNet to design better mazes for mice. I want them to work on a videogame for human beings. Specifically, ones that tend to fall toward the middle of the curve like myself.

I don’t really understand any of what lilstev just said, but:

The truth is we dunno. Gilded infusion might be supremely harmed by this patch, and it might not.

Banquetto.9521:

The grind is within you. You have a compulsion to grind, it’s obvious from every word of your post.

There is no MMO in existence or able to exist where you would not feel compelled to grind.

You need to change your approach. ArenaNet can’t change it for you.

This all over, wowza.

Make sure to continue reporting this as a bug in-game.

…Gold? Your bank is account-based.

deees ah gree

It’s got all the stuff it had at launch plus more stuff; it’s more fun now

Valento.9852:

Valento.9852:

HiddenNick.7206:

Valento.9852:

philosophy they chose.

What philosophy?

Well, no gear treadmill and no sort of progression, many people like the way it is now (explore and redo stuff), but many others don’t.

There is a gear treadmill. There is also a gold treadmill and even more.

Ascended gear is a treadmill and it does make a difference. Now there is new armor that tweaks stats yet again which means yet another treadmill. And if you think taking a break and coming back puts you at a equal footing, it does.

Content is changing pretty quickly and if you take a break, ignore it, or are slower; well, you just missed out on something.

Not saying it is good or bad, just saying it is what it is and there are treadmills in this game.

No… I think maybe you don’t understand what a treadmill is in the usage case of “gear treadmill.”

“Gold treadmill” makes absolutely no sense, it is in effect an utterance void of meaning.

Your question’s been answered, but just for the curious, the portal was there but broken since Lost Shores, then the portal and boat were both available since the Secret of Southsun release, and now (as of today) the boat moored at Sanctum Harbor instead takes you to the Bazaar docks for this release. I rather like the progression.

It sounds like there may indeed by an issue with this. Here’s hoping for a quick fix

Aeonblade.8709:

Zepidel.5349:

Log in and chop down 5 trees, salvage some junk i had to go get off low level mobs, maybe do a boring easy dungeon, and talk to the laurel vendor. I then receive my anet issued 1 laurel per day. Then Proceed to find a group for fractals a dungeon I have run 9001 times so I can have a shot at a ring and my anet issued 1 pristine relic per day. Look down at my keyboard and think well guess i have no reason to be online anymore till tomorrow, but hey in 2 months ill have a piece of jewelry that is 5% better than the one that took me 5 minutes to get.

This is the endgame in GW2… doing dailies. Who would of thought a company could take one of the worst things introduced in world of warcraft and build a game around it.

Are they ever going to make this game interesting past leveling up and exploring?

Incoming legion of fanboys to tell you this game isn’t for you and you are playing it wrong.

To answer your question: Maybe, but we the players have to keep being vocal about how displeased most of us are with the end game.

shrug Why isn’t it a possibility that the game isn’t for him?

Really dangerous use of the word “most” there anyway.

Vayne.8563:

I like to think of myself as a hard-core casual.

I’m not particularly looking for challenge in an MMO, I’m looking for fun. I just want to sort of roam around and enjoy myself. I don’t mind occasional challenges, but I’m not always up for them.

I do a lot of everything. I bounce around a lot. I’m not too focused on just getting a legendary or just getting dungeon master, or just finishing my personal story. I’ll get there. When I feel like doing something, I do it.

I’m also a big fan of helping other people. Particularly but not limited to people in my guild. Anyone needs help with a dungeon or WvW or just finding a vista, I’m there.

I guess you could say I’m a social player, who enjoys the world for what it is, without putting too much pressure on the game to entertain me, because over the years I’ve learned to entertain myself.

Guild Wars 2, so far, is the only MMO that actually fits my play style.

I’m that kind. What I do most often in-game is “whatever people happen to be up to,” followed by a pretty even mix of just about everything you can do on your own.

Kanik.5471:

Until this is fixed, I will not shave in real life.

He’s just crazy enough to do it folks.

I’m your friend kos

Here’s hoping they do fix this soon

Sounds outstanding to me Vayne, however I must cynically remind you again that it is not necessarily in their financial interest to do so.

It’s nice that we’re all looking out for each other.

Doomsayer.8250:

I’m assuming the group finder will be attached to a consumable item, and stashed inside Black Lion Chests?

You’re making a joke about how frequent they are, but if anything that tied to the everyday gameplay experience or statistical superiority made it into the gem store I would likely quit on the spot. Won’t happen.

There should be Borderlands-style, consequence-free dueling anywhere in the open world (not cities). BAM.

Thanks for that assurance, John.

Based on the research posited it does look like there may have been a reduction in the ecto salvage chance for Master kits, while anecdotally I haven’t found the chance from Black Lion kits to have been altered.

But I see you’ve gone on to draw sweeping conclusions about the nature of ArenaNet’s regard for their customers, suspicion of malicious intent, the nature of gambling, the future of this game and its playerbase, what causes MMOs to die, etc., so now I am happy to articulate my criticisms in list form.

1. Guild Wars 2 is not a virtual casino. For one thing, there is literally nowhere in-game you can bet anything except for one rather humorous instance in Diessa Plateau involving in-game currency and the aerodynamics of cows.

And by the way, in a casino, the house always wins, not just mostly wins- the solitary exception being when the player defrauds them. A jackpot is a drop in the bucket compared to a successful casino’s revenue, even if won by an advantage player.

2. Believe it or not, no matter what the drop tables contained within, RNG boxes are not “gambling” in any sense except the metaphorical one (i.e.: “taking a risk with uncertain outcome”); the same definition applies to throwing crap in the Mystic Forge. If you legitimately worked in a casino surely you understand what actual gambling is and why in the case of the above two examples one is no more of a gamble than the other.

3. Gambling addiction, while a terrible scourge on society, should really not be taken seriously as a risk factor of playing Guild Wars 2. People need to control their own spending habits when it comes to gems; be it buying every single Mini released in the shop or putting $100 worth into Black Lion Chests. Every individual player must know his or her limits, and younger players should simply not be given access to a credit card for gem purchases. What the gems are spent on- be it RNG boxes, funny town clothes or a book that teaches you how to dance- is irrelevant when talking about such a serious subject.

Video game addiction, and specifically MMO addiction, on the other hand, is a very real psychological concern with behavioral similarities to compulsive gambling. However, the design decisions of Guild Wars 2 do not strike me as inordinately likely to foster such an addiction. As you apparently note yourself, particularly frustrated players (such as by not getting an RNG skin) are more likely to just quit than keep playing more and more.

4. The temporary skins in Guild Wars 2 have not all been offered solely through RNG boxes purchased in the gem store. In fact, no two sets of weapon skins have yet been offered exactly the same way. Halloween skins were in the BLC/Mad King Chests, randomly, but tradeable on the TP. Wintersday skins could be purchased outright. Fused Skins were only in BLCs and not tradeable, but a ticket allowed you to purchase the one you wanted. SAB skins where wholly obtained through in-game means and not even available through the gem store. Sclerite skins borrow the redeemable tickets, but are in their own boxes, which themselves drop in-game. They keep doing different things and they will continue to.

5. None of the above methods of item delivery are “scams.” It’s pretty disingenuous to label them as such. A scam by nature involves fraud of some form. All of these instances have been labeled accurately. RNG boxes are not fradulent, they just have overwhelmingly poor odds, which is why I recommend simply not buying them, especially if you’d like to see their use restricted.

6. In the simplest terms, NCSoft/ArenaNet making money is going to be the most important factor in the game’s long-term success. For existing customers, they aren’t trying to sell a product anymore, they’re looking for sustained, optional luxury purchases. Accepting this premise, business decisions that make the company the most money will be the best ones for the total playerbase, as counterintuitive or annoying as they might seem. It’s apparent to me that this is making them substantial money or they wouldn’t continue iterating on it. It’s for this reason I can’t get all that worked up about RNG boxes, despite disliking them quite a bit myself. What’s good for the game’s bottom line is good for me in the long term, despite the fact that you think this particular thing will cause the game to fail.

7. It strikes me that you have no evidence that the delivery of cosmetic skins through RNG boxes will cause significant numbers of players to quit and affect the game’s chances of success. If you do, please provide it and I will promise to read it in full.

8. The question of which skins in the game are the nicest is highly subjective, wouldn’t you say? Personally I find the Sclerite skins to be pretty hideous. The skins I want most are all actually available on the trading post right now, simply at in-game prices I can’t yet afford. Luckily, I’m in no rush.

I hope that you take some of these points seriously and reconsider your suspicions of deep malice and greed on ArenaNet’s part. You’ll honestly enjoy the game more without it hanging over your head.

Buttercup.5871:

I invite you to articulate your criticism.

I didn’t mean to be glib- I didn’t offer specific criticisms of your points because all of them are predicated on an opinion I disagree with. I was just expressing that, in isolation.

To clarify: “Your highest goal is a weapon skin.”

No, it isn’t. Note how I did not see fit to phrase this “In my opinion, no it isn’t,” because you stated your original premise without any such caveat. But both of our statements are opinions, and they are equally valid. However, being as I disagree with your foundational opinion, I can’t grant any weight to the conclusions that follow. The skins found in RNG boxes are wholly unrelated to precursors/legendaries from my perspective.

Furthermore you make a lot of semi-faulty backhanded accusations which wouldn’t really hold up to evidence (precursor scavenger hunt was, wisely or not, confirmed by Colin to be coming this year; WvW chests are a new additional chance at a precursor, not a preexisting source of frustration; 30 seconds of Googling reveals that Manastones in Aion are noncosmetic items that simple add raw stats to weapons and armor, rendering your argument in total a little weak- show me ArenaNet doing THAT with their gem store and you’ll get me on your side. Can you even convert in-game currency to buy cash shop stuff in Aion at all…?).

Nowhere even close to an exploit. However, it’s not cost-effective. The jewelry boxes will provide a better return unless you are very lucky.

Dang man, that’s dedication! Looks cool though, I’ve always thought it was a pretty stylish logo.

Vayne.8563:

Pretty sure the guild system will be the next thing overhauled after the LFG tool is out. My guess is it’s the same group of people working on that type of feature.

I think you’re probably pretty right on that one. Seems like that would be the same kind of non-gameplay UI functionality, and I know the LFG stuff was prioritized (all in all rightfully so, as that impacts both people in and out of guilds).

Yep, the guild interface, missions UI and features all need a big update. Everyone should agree on this

Never have I so immediately disagreed with the entire thesis of a thread. :P

All level 80 exotic gear in the game has the same stat “budget”- the same total number of stat points- allocated in different ways. So the karma gear is “the best in the game,” though no different than 80 exotics you’d buy on the TP, craft, or acquire from dungeons. It’s up to you whether or not it’s worth it.

If this is your first set, I recommend a mix of karma pieces, TP stuff, and crafted/dungeon gear, to keep the blow to any of your currencies minimal.

I know this isn’t helpful or relevant to your question, but would you mind terribly if I asked for your server name? I’d love to guest to be able to see maw like that!

Gw2lfg is just a contrivance until in-game functionality exists. You are certainly not the only one who wants it.

Dunno.

If it were me, I’d have throwback sales for each (“we just found a hidden cache of Molten Alliance tools!”) every so often.

Eh, I dunno.

He raises a legitimate complaint for plenty of players (“there isn’t enough to challenge me”), it’s just the veering off into speculation about this being bad for the game’s level of success that is a bit of a perspective issue.

scratches head Was getting the F&F achievement the only thing you wanted to do?

The Molten Alliance has been defeated, Flame and Frost is in the past. Sorry!

What’s going on now is that a renegade sylvari (you may have met him back in November if you did the Lost Shores) is stirring up trouble for the refugees from Flame and Frost that moved to Southsun Cove.

On a speculative note, it’s certainly possible that we could revisit aspects of the Flame and Frost content one way or another in the future, even making the gauntlets available again, but for now, you did in fact miss out.

Senryi.4897:

Behellagh.1468:

TwoBit.5903:

It’s tactic used to create urgency, getting people to spend more in a short amount of time. It also makes these items exclusive to players who are fast enough to buy them.

Exactly. Consumers have been conditioned to buy things that are “limited time only” or “on sale”. JC Penney learned the hard way how conditioned the consumer is when they got rid of sales and just priced the items the same as when they were on sale (instead of 60% off $30 jeans they simply offered them at $12 all the time). Store sales plummeted.

Strangely enough it’s the “hunt” for bargins and “foraging” for specials that still drive us.

So from what I am gathering is that this practice of “limited time only” is actually anti-consumer?

Kind of. It’s a little more complicated than that. There’s a sense in which limited-time-off sales could be considered anti-consumer (“why are the items not simply priced that way at all times?”), but they are demonstrably beneficial for the seller and the overall success of the business, in what is essentially a noncompetitive atmosphere, is highly beneficial for all consumers, along with, in this case, non-spending players.

So yes, on the one hand it can plainly be viewed as anti-consumer. It’s a sales tactic, it benefits the business. On the other hand, decisions that benefit ArenaNet financially (not just on a conceptual level, but in effect) in turn benefit all consumers of the game.

LowestTruth.2635:

Senryi.4897:

I don’t think they intended it to be accessible.

I think that’s a given.

The question, which they do not particularly owe us an answer to, is whether they need folks to stay out and folks should stay out, or whether they are simply not aware of “all” the people using it for various constructive and entertaining purposes.

People are invested with time & energy. Always a bit of a harsh feelin’ when something you like gets taken away. I’m just curious as to what they’re thinking.

That was particularly cogent and reasonable.

I hope you get an answer, but if you don’t, I certainly sympathize. The RP community for this game generally strikes me as courteous and fun and I have no doubt they make the playerbase better on the whole.

Unfortunately I know very little about accessing this area and thus I can’t speculate as to why any changes were made. I do know that some previously-accessible areas that were not intentional were shut down because players occupying those spaces in the gameworld could actually cause server-side errors or even, in the worst case, crashes for people in that zone.

Not only can I imagine it…..

Funny though, I’d say Treks lend themselves to employing Dulfy way more than any other type. I mean those screenshots are super tiny!!

Lucard.4235:

So I wounder if I’m the only one or in the minority to see that what is needed is quit simply a little increase in the difficulty to allow player to have goals which aren’t achieved the same day they set them, and for the love of god Legendaries are in no way shape or form a goal to be set a month after you start the game which mind you, is currently happening.

My solemn answer to this is that you are definitely not the only one, but definitely are in the minority.

I don’t think anyone sees making Guild Wars 2 “more hardcore” as the answer to all its ills except hardcore players themselves, which in turn is bad news for those hardcore players.

However, personally I would certainly like to see more challenge available. Ideally I would like to see both new challenging content and existing content optionally accessible in more challenging ways.

Treks don’t award commendations because they

1) Are quite easy, especially once you become personally familiar with a lot of spots
2) Are almost individually completed, meaning assigning rewards would be difficult and exclude huge swaths of the guild even if they spent the whole time helping.

With everything unlocked you get 6 commendations per week (an ascended accessory every 2, if you look at it like that).