Guild Wars 2

jaz.8954:

Snip

I should be able to put together the power builds later tonight, but I for sure know the Condi one I believe. Friend of mine Icewielder was probably the one who played it. His build (though it might be slightly outdated) would be the one below.

Viper Build Alt

miguelsil.6324:

I think before they start nerfing our best roaming build.(unfortunatly its not power) they need to adress necros problems with sustain mobility and lf build.

I don’t believe that the viability of necro roaming relies on deathly chill in its current state. I would rather anet reverted it back to 1 bleed per chill and then maybe had it corrupt a boon when you apply chill on a 5 or 10s icd (could be tuned a bit of course). Hell make the icd be target dependent like frost armor so aoe chill sources are still strong. Still a strong trait, but not the disgusting amounts of damage it is currently. Every necro/necro fight is a transfer fest while you watch the bleed stack up currently.

I take zero lf traits and I don’t really have lf issues. I’m a bit confused as to what builds exactly have issues with lf gain. Soul reaping is always an option and is fantastic at keeping lf topped up.

The mobility of necro should not be buff (beyond maybe a 25% move speed trait somewhere). Part of what allows for necro to be such a strong damage class/corrupt class is due to its weakness of low mobility. It rewards positioning, which is good. Does it suck sometimes? Of course, but its part of the class and it should be kept that way.

Same argument goes for buffing sustain. The reason balance (outside of spvp to an extent) is screwed up is due to anet buffing classes to be good at things they originally weren’t able to do. I would rather each class had clear weaknesses than each class be able to do everything. The classes I think this is best represented in currently are revenants (clear weakness to conditions without extensive traiting), necros (except for deathly chill), and warrior (though AH needs a nerf of 25-33%).

miguelsil.6324:

Nice. Just dont ask for nerfs necros can at least roam in condi now on pair with other classes :p

I’d rather they nerfed deathly chill from how passive it is and found a way to make it more active. Currently there is no skill in the trait and simply rewards players for tossing out as much chill as possible to overwhelm opponents.

Also video 7 (now with 100% more axe) is out.
Video 7

New video now up.

Video 6

New video now up. Clips from the past day or so of roaming.

Video 5

Gideon.6742:

Reapers dont throw out 25 stacks of bleed out of “nowhere” RS5-RS4 combo isn’t out of no where. Stay out of their ice field and stop trying to faceroll a reaper in shroud if you can’t handle it.

25 bleeds is a fairly simple weapon swap and shroud flash combo combined with suffer. No ice field required. You can stack that many in under 2 seconds currently.

Two new videos up, edited the initial post to include them. They are also included here;
Video 3 *10min of SBI pugs throwing bodies at 4 of us in a camp, don’t take too seriously.
Video 4

jpnova.4572:

How viable is this build in PvP?
I came back the game to play Hammer Engi and GS Necro but neither seem very good in PvE.

I would say its not viable in sPvP, though I will admit I have not tried it.

Thustlewhumber.7416:

I like how you were running away at the end and a Necro GS claw reached out and grabbed you. They are learning

I insta-downed an Anet dev earlier this week using this build, so I expect it will be toned down a bit soon. Enjoy it while you can.

Haha I saw the claw coming at me and at that moment I knew I wasn’t gonna make it haha.

We’ll see what anet does with regards to the build and deathly chill. I’m expecting some toning down.

Since I don’t want to pollute the front page with multiple threads, I am putting my new video here and in the first post of the thread. Enjoy.

Video 2

miguelsil.6324:

Yeah in those situations i stated its all about the other players knowing what to do and be good otherwise they will fail. With that build in the same situations i saw in your vids i got the same results. Downing 5players distracted in the midle of 10 before they down me. Lol

Haha exactly. It punishes misplays by yourself and your opponents insanely hard, but man is it fun. I always crack up when I die 1v6+ and see 3 downs around my body.

I would vote druid as well. Even if not built for it, druid has access to heals and can stealth the warrior out of trouble and when rezzing. Along with this, the multitude of stuns warriors have synergizes extremely well with the ancient seeds trait on druid which then allows for the warrior to not get kited as easily and sets up for the warrior burst.

Threather.9354:

Haha, well obviously your server might look little different but the servers I am facing have 3-4 man perma ganking guilds during daytime killing everyone trying to solo roam if they own sm Ofc you could go borders but its pretty much the same there. Thats why its better to play Druid/Mesmer/Warrior/Thief or even DH or ele so you have at least some mobility.

Also thieves counter you, longbow druids can troll you, sure if you love the class but its kinda like roaming with staff DH at that point, sure you kill some noobs and scrappers but at that point you will be better off just zerging ^^

I’d argue that while reaper lacks what most “roamers” seem to prioritize in mobility and ability to escape, it has the advantage in still being effective when the fights become 1v3+. Against druids if they just want to pewpew and staff 3 away then you can just walk away and use los.

It is funny to me that people are so hardset with their “needs” for roaming. You don’t need mobility, you don’t need stealth, you don’t need broken 1v1 builds, all you need is some knowledge of the game and ability to play the terrain to your advantage. Sure some classes are better suited out of the box for solo roaming, but there isn’t any reason to not roam on a class, unless you don’t enjoy that playstyle.

And as far as your end comment there, just because you can’t kill anything but noobs/scrappers on necro doesn’t make that a universal law.

miguelsil.6324:

Yeah but you will probably notice aswell when you r fighting one at close and another is hitting from afar your be screwed if the ranged knows his business. Hapened to me many times. Specially another necro or rifle warr or thief dodging. Thiefs dont get hit but damage and boonstrip you while dodging. Also ghost thiefs will kitten ya if u dont have a tower/fullshroud or a tarhet to transfer condis. Its pretty much onesided

While you’re right that a 1v2 with a ranged player who can put out damage can be an issue, I’d argue that such a situation is an issue for any reaper/necro build out there. Even tankier builds have issues with that.

For thieves, you might notice that my strategy isn’t to go at them head on, but rather I typically wait for their attacks and then land a swap combo on them right after one of their dodges. Otherwise, a well played thief with pulmonary impact really shouldn’t lose to any necro build.

Ghost thieves can be annoying, but honestly I just use the hard counter to them of holding down W and they can’t do anything about it.

You’re right with a lot of the points though, there are certain matchups that are much more difficult than you might expect. Usually the determining factor comes down to where the fight is (assuming the opponents have some skill). Playing this build, I’ve become a lot craftier in how I position and lure opponents to areas where I know it levels the playing field somewhat.

miguelsil.6324:

Ive tried this build and even with dire gear etc works fine in giving insta 30plus bleeds. However it is a bit squishy and cc susceptible. But so fun when it works?

No defensive trait lines will do that. If cc is a problem swap out rise for another stun break. I know you probably already thought of/did that, but if other people find that is an issue that is the solution. Spectral armor, the shout stun break or worm would be best I believe.

For me it’s a bit of the overwhelm and kill them first before you run out of steam. You’ve got the tools to put the opponent on the backfoot and prevent their counter, but have weaknesses when it comes to being focused.

If you are using a tankier setup, I’d definitely recommend not using rise and swapping either the boon corrupt shout or another stun break.

KrHome.1920:

Viper condi reaper is totally unviable in wvw.

I have no idea what opponents you fought but they must be terrible. These thieves in your video… Thieves have to destroy you. No excuse! Every thief that gets killed by a GS viper reaper is a noob.

And you did not even run soul reaping. You die the moment a decent player is looking at you.

Then I guess I haven’t fought any good players in WvW. The matchups against thieves you are right with how a good thief should never lose, but there aren’t enough good thieves out there apparently since I win 80%+ of those matchups.

I don’t argue that the build should be or is meta, but it’s fun to play and that’s all I care about at this point. I’ve done tb I’ve done dire I’ve played every class and at this point I just play what’s fun.

Justine.6351:

Even I’ve been having success in 1vX encounters with axe/focus, greatsword aganst the average wvw player. And my build is not even for roaming, it’s for 5-20 team play.

Reaper cleave + damage shield + boon corrupts = op!

I don’t doubt it. People just seem to have absurd expectations for videos expecting somehow to see consistent opponents that have skill when WvW isn’t and never has been a Mecca for those type of players.

On a side note, people who have the capabilities and are willing please start making necro roaming/wvw videos and post them to the forum. I would personally like to see a lot more videos here of necro gameplay, but it’s a rare occasion. Just go out there, play a build you like, make a short montage and put it up.

miguelsil.6324:

Regarding ur videos and build i emjoy them alot just made a reference that without that new hot gear the build itself isnt that broken and maybe anet is taking that into consideration.

Btw would reaper runes work aswell? Or what other runes u sugest?

Yeah my bad. I quoted you cause you were the most recent in the thread. Wasn’t directed at you primarily.

Reaper runes would work well, along with zerker, thorn, nightmare, and krait. I don’t run them mainly because all of those focus on taking what you already excel at (dmg) and slightly boosting it. Antitoxin and the food allows for easier combating against other necros or Condi classes without a huge DPS loss. If you aren’t using anti toxin, swap out the food to be either +dur +Condi or the +dur +lifesteal on critical.

miguelsil.6324:

I dont think the build is broken. Whats broken is the viper trail gear etc. I made the build with exotic gear buyable on TP and it s very efective but not nearly as broken as many power builds on some classes or condi thiefs mesmers etc.

Meh if viper is broken then idk what condition set people don’t think is broken. It’s legit no defensive stats. TB and Dire are broken for sure in WvW though.

As for comments regarding the skill level of the opponents, I’d invite anyone to post videos and show me more skilled players in WvW. I don’t post many 1v1s in my videos because of the skill gap making it trivial usually with the exception of warriors and their stances. If people want one video every five weeks of maybe slightly more skilled opponents they’re welcome to do that.

I make the videos to showcase a build that is fun to play and to comment on the fact that having an instant burst with 25 stacks of bleed and the ability to solo stack 45+ isn’t sustainable in a PvP gamemode.

That being said, I would love to see more necros producing videos showing outnumbered fights akin to the ones I have since I imagine most people might have issues with 1v3+ situations that are being used as examples for how bad my opponents are. At a certain point it doesn’t matter how bad your opponents are when they outnumber you by 2-4 and you are solo.

Videos only reflect the current skill level in WvW. I can’t change that. I can only choose my clips to try and showcase skill and what not despite that. And the only way to do that is through outnumbered fights.

Hello again, I have another greatsword viper reaper roaming video to share. Hope you all enjoy. Build is in the description. Edit: Video 9 out now now added here as well.

Video
Video 2
Video 3 *10min of SBI pugs throwing bodies at 4 of us in a camp, don’t take too seriously.
Video 4
Video 5
Video 6
Video 7
Video 8
Video 9

Idk. In WvW viper necromancer works extremely well from my own experience. Whats holding back hybrid necro is people’s lack of desire to explore it further imo.

You don’t need extreme damage multipliers to make hybrid necro work. People being hit for 3k bleed ticks and being pummeled by other conditions and direct damage is more than enough.

Thustlewhumber.7416:

Even at full stacks, bleed is still only ticking like 3 or 4K whereas burn guardians can routinely get 7-8kper tick. So you are asking for a nerf because necros can finally do half the condi damage of a guardian? Give me a break,

That’s just not true. Since the buff I routinely get 7k+ bleed ticks on enemies in wvw. That is as a solo necro as well, so it’s not like I’m using epi.

Simply put the bleeds need a nerf. I’d like maybe a side buff to the trait if it got reverted but the trait as it stands isn’t suitable for wvw.

VunDola.7596:

Love the video. I find this a really interesting build, the new deathly chill [broken op lol] provides a lot of interesting options.

1 thing I wonder if you thought about was why geomancy sigils on both weapons? It is redundant and can be swapped for sigil of ice or mischief for 1 of the sigils. Also, did you ever consider using reaper runes for more offensive power for more burst power or did you find you needed to -condi duration due to the lack of condi clear compared to using staff.

Thanks! I threw hydromancy on the gs for my early testing (and for that video), but it is now currently using mischief so good catch.

Reaper runes would be ok with the build, but I am not a huge fan of them. Basically, there is one thing the build does crazy well and that is damage. If someone lets me combo them its 40+ stacks of bleed without reaper runes plus whatever power/other conditions I’ve put on them. Instead of opting for the ability to put more bleeds on them, I wanted a bit more defensive option with antitoxin. It becomes even more advantageous to use antitoxin and the sweetbun food since in order to take chilling darkness you lose your plague autotransfer trait (and of course like you mention you don’t have staff).

Nikola.3841:

Helly.2597:

Electra.7530:

Lol, I came in this thread and hoped to see vid too and … none yet. haha

I kill 4 at once at the start of this video.

Video

While I think you did good, I think it was more like 1vs2vs2 than 1vs4, and you jumped them while they were doing 2vs2…did any try to use stealth at all?

?? You watch the video? Originally it was a 1v1v2 then after those were down 4 condi thieves and a condi necro came in at the same time. Just pause the video at 1min17s and you see 3 condi thieves (from the same guild) and a condi necro with the last condi thief still in stealth. In no way was that a 2v2.

Electra.7530:

Lol, I came in this thread and hoped to see vid too and … none yet. haha

I kill 4 at once at the start of this video.

Video

Thustlewhumber.7416:

Great vid, btw. I am trying to figure out your combo, it looks like Suffer>Swap Weapon>Reaper>Soul Spiral? Also, are Rise and Plague Signet just panic buttons?

Thanks! That’s the basic burst combo, but depending on the fight you want to save suffer to transfer condis. I try not to be too predictable with how I combo for fights against good players though.

Rise and plague I wouldn’t call panic buttons, but they are defensive in nature. You need plague to counter other necromancer transfers and condi Mesmer’s while also giving a good stun break. Rise is important since the -33% dmg is excellent to help against DHS and warriors who run power.

Rise you want to keep until you see/feel focus on yourself. Plague is the only stun break so I try not to be too liberal in its use for transfers when suffer works well.

With the balance changes, I decided to swap out staff for greatsword in my viper necro roaming build. Ended up being relatively effective and fun to play.

Also anet, please revert the deathly chill change for WvW.

Video

Build is in the video description.

More roaming on viper necromancer mixture of solo and group roaming. Any comments, feedback, and questions are welcome.

Video

Build

Another video is out. Included a fair chunk of TS just to have it be something different.

Video

charrboiledeggs.8164:

Condis are for those that lack skill.

K. Toss on full vipers and show me your 1v6s.

Can’t speak for PvE, but Chilled to the Bone is an awesome elite skill in WvW and sPvP. Plague can be useful in some WvW situations along with Lich. Pretty much the only elite that is useless is the golem, but it could be good if anet make some tweaks to it.

SlitheSlivier.1908:

What are the tough builds to beat with this or the counters? Also, a lot of the players in your vid seemed pretty dumb. Do you find 1v1’s more equal when playing better players, or do you still think it swings in your favor with that build?

This is just my opinion about the build so bear in mind people might disagree.

The build in a strictly, is this even close to the best necro WvW roaming build sense, sucks. You are playing a class which has minimal true evasive abilities and few options for defense (outside DS/RS and good kiting/positioning) and you are taking close to no defensive stats on the armor/weapons. I firmly believe that any player who can pull of this build in WvW in roaming can certainly play any necro build well and also could probably do extremely well with any meta build out there.

On that note, the biggest positive of the build is that it does some damage. And by some I mean categorically insane amounts of damage.

The worst matchups for this build are warrior and thief. If either of these two know what they’re doing you have to really know what you’re doing to last a decent amount of time.

The best matchups are probably other reapers and scrappers. You have enough condi transfer to mess up other reapers and you have the boon corrupt and damage to cut through scrapper sustain.

With regards to better players giving closer matchups, yes definitely. It depends on the player I am up against if they can address and counter the strongsuit of the build before I cut through their defenses. Few opponents are able to do this however. The mean fact I have clips on clips of 1v3+ indicates that it is fairly rare. Additionally since I don’t really seek out 1v1’s in a more formal sense, most of my 1v1s involve additional factors like who got the jump and terrain usage add to this the simple truth that few players even want to 1v1 instead of having buddies pile on makes it difficult to say what 1v1s look like truly. However, I can count on my hand the number of 1v1’s I lost while roaming this past weekend.

In no way do I believe this build tilts any particular matchup in your favor more than a more tradition (tankier) WvW roaming necro.

OS is fine as it is. Only thing I can think of that would improve it would be for a remake of the arena area (or a second area) that actually has some LoS aspects put into it. Even if the LoS aspects are the small ruined walls, would add a bit more complexity to any duels or GvGs that happen there.

Cygnus.6903:

That right there is saying something, don’t you think? For a player to be successful at glass cannon he has to have very good technical skills as well as reflexes.

And for the record, i didn’t say Dire or TB is the problem. The problem is the low risk high reward unbalance on many condi builds. Many of them happen to use TB or Dire, so you can obviously make a link.

The risk/reward thing can be solved in another way then just nerfing or removing Dire/TB.

There are a lot of high reward low risk builds in the game with a fairly even mixture between condition and power. Acro staff thief, boon duration power warrior, boon duration/beastmastery druid, and boon duration scrapper are all examples of (while not OP) builds that are largely overtuned for the risk they have.

Any changes made to conditions to “fix” their risk/reward isn’t going to have the impact you wish it has. All a nerf to conditions will do is push people who run conditions to run even tankier builds in order to overcome the nerf with more sustain or it will just push the players to play the low risk high reward power builds/classes.

The language you use here indicates you think there is a fundamental problem with all condition builds regardless of what their armor is. What about viper? What about sinister? Carrion? There clearly is a difference between a necro using full TB and one using full viper right?

In order to “fix” these condition builds apparently a bunch of people have trouble with fighting, an equal nerf would be required for the power builds that have this same risk reward issue. This isn’t an issue isolated to conditions, but a larger issue with some of the balancing since HoT has come out with the 4 stat sets introduced and the min-max ability of WvW.

Back again with a few viper necro roaming video. I would not recommend this build to be played, but its posted below.

Video Solo Roaming

Video Group Roaming

Build

Trait never change, utilities do when I’m not solo roaming.

Group roaming exclusively this time. Still the same build just swapped in epidemic for larger scale fights.

Video 4

Reknarok.7582:

“video not available”

:\

Apparently some of the music for the first two limits the viewing to certain devices, so I’m guessing mobile devices are out. Sorry about that.

And another one. Been a long week so not a long video.

Video 3

Silv.9207:

Someone say that the necro do his best while supported by a ele or a ranger, but the necro is the worst class ever to be supported, just because while in shroud we can’t be healed, making our ally waste his skills for us and obtaining no effects.

Necro definitely shines when supported. Your idea that shroud makes it bad to be supported is only true in lower tiers of sPvP. Good supports won’t waste cds when you’re in shroud simple as that.

A necro who is allowed to cast its abilities without pressure is possibly the most dangerous situation in any of the pvp modes if you compare it to every other class. Necro has the best kit for downstate cleave onto people rezzing and imo can swing team fights dramatically if played well.

The only people who have any excuse for transfering to higher servers are people who don’t live in the NA or EU timezones where you can’t get fights unless you’re T1 or T2. Even in T3/T4 NA there are always fights throughout the day if you actually are looking for them and not just rolling in the blob.

I made another shorter video from today’s fights.

Video 2

Enjoy

Pretty much what the title states, running viper necro in wvw. Two group clips in there, but the majority is solo roaming.

Video

Hope you all enjoy.

Trailblazers is the go to stat for condition necros in WvW. Basically any roaming condition build can run with trailblazers and do well in WvW. Much like dire it gives the defensive stats some necros need and has increased condi duration which makes a difference in fights.

The build Lahmia linked is largely for zerging/medium group roaming (5-10) and works well with trailblazers.

I currently run viper for my WvW roaming necro, but trailblazer would work well too if you’re less experienced/facing larger outnumber situations. Third utility slot is whatever you want it to be, with epidemic (better in larger fights), spectral armor (better in small groups/1v1s), “Nothing can Save You” (my personal choice/gives you unblockable and boon strip) or even well of corruption.

Build

And video 6 is here (well it’s been out for a bit but I forgot to post it anywhere). The baseline necro roaming is officially over for me, and this is the last video with any baseline necro I plan on doing. Hopefully people enjoy.

Video 6

Junkpile.7439:

What you say that epidemic is problem in smaller fights? Why don’t you just intterupt cast? Need to remember that you can clearly see who is targeted when necro start to cast epidemic and you have time to dodge.

Calling it in your words, " One of the weakest skills in the game," was what I found ridiculous . I think epidemic is decently balanced currently. Situationally useful, with multiple ways to counter play and with a good/great reward for hitting a good one.

Packit.8576:

Junkpile.7439:

Yes let’s nerf one of weakest skills in game. Nobody even play condi necro in WvW.

L O L

Shh bby its just the people who don’t roam outside of 20+ talking. Let them think what they want.

Ragion.2831:

Nice vid. I dare you to do this with core power necro.

Thanks! Haha honestly I strongly dislike power necro. Low skill cap and requires opponents to play into it too much which results in the fights either being blowouts for me or for the opponents. We’ll see though.

New condition core necro roaming video is up. Volume 5 of being pingpong ball.

Video 5

Good stuff Ice. Gotta go with the no trinkets meta to get good fights now haha.

Mi Goi.7832:

Like all your videos! Make one for Reaper =)

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed them. I might do a reaper video, however I’ve really been enjoying core necro solo roaming a lot recently and personally find reaper a bit less versatile for solo roaming.

Volume 4 is out now. One of the clips towards the end got a little wacky and slowed down a bit for no reason. Apologies.

Video 4