Guild Wars 2

Daddicus.6128:

Really stinks. My daughter recently quit playing altogether because she had a life, and ANet passed her by. She came back to see LA in shambles and her unable to find anything (she didn’t know about the camp at the Vigil).

And, she wanted to do some Mystic Forge work. I had to tell her sorry, there’s no way to get there any more without spending real money. Sad, really. She used to like the game, but being a senior in college required too much time. Now that she has more time, she can’t play any more (or, feels that way, anyhow).

What bothers me is that they made the same stupid mistake in GW1 with Winds of Change. They had to backstitch in alterations because the player base revolted, and now they’re making the same mistake all over again.

I’ve wondered the same thing many times about this game. I was drawn to this game because I heard it was suitable for casuals, but t’s one of the most hardcore games I’ve ever played in many respects.

Basically this game is not suitable for your daughter and Anet is unapologetic about that as long as the current design philosophy is paying their wages.

Megaservers have killed the daily temple runs on our server. Our regular commander used to run a server wide event every day. But since megaservers there were too many people, so we would hit the map cap and everybody would have problems getting any loot even while grouped. The commander responded to this by either tagging down or running temples as a guild mission I’m unsure.

This has resulted in many people who are pugging for various reasons not being able to participate in temple runs at all.

AsmallChicken.9634:

Iluth.6875:

AsmallChicken.9634:

Depending on what game mode.
For WvW zerg fighting, Engis still don’t really have much of a role. Sure you can try to make something work, but in general another class usually provides what an engi provides but better.

It breaks my heart to hear you say that. Do other people feel this way also? I’ve mained an bunker/flamer Engi in wvw since launch doing zergs, and I have to say that I literally destroy enemy zergs with the disruption that an engi can bring.

The amount of punishment an engi can take is quite insane. And my favourite thing to do is break away from my own zerg and hit the enemy from the back or side with supply crate, then my flamethrower and watch them scatter like scared rabbits. Our zerg meanwhile is stacked up and buffed and just tears into the scattered enemy and destroys them. The feeling of knowing that you created that chaos just by running among the enemy and sending them fleeing is immense.

Or you could have been an ele and dropped a static field on them. Static field not only has a shorter cooldown than your supply crate, but its not target capped to only 5 like supply crate is.

And if enemy zergs are running from your flamethrower, they must be the trashiesht uplv’d zerg wearing no armor. Flamethrower damage especially on a bunker engi is beyond pathetic. Better off just rifle auto attacking. Not only that, any sources of retal will absolutely destroy you if the enemy zerg had any sort of guardians. Then again sounds like you are fighting some of the trashiest zergs around, so you could have just been a warrior, charged in there and hundred bladed and down’d like 5 ppl. Or even better be an ele, static field them then drop a meteor shower/sharknado and down the entire zerg.

The damage isn’t the point of the flamethrower, it’s a disruptive tool and it works every time. If I get focused (rarely) I’ll just switch to my wrench and block my way out.

You’re also forgetting about airblast and smoke vent. An aoe blind dropped in a blob, airblast a bunch out of the stack, red circles on the ground as your zerg begins blasting and yeah people just panic and dont know what to do.

Heck you can screw up a zerg just by running through them blocking and healing, you dont really even need to do anything. It’s natural that they’re going to retreat and lose cohesion as someone runs through them. It works every time, hilarious!

Special mention to the ele though. I’ve had a lot of fun vs zergs on my ele, and I feel like its a great little support class, but for my money it’s second rate when it comes to disruption.

The psychology of being attacked by the two classes is just different. A zerg expects to see red cirlces on the ground coming from range, what they don’t expect is some lone maniac running into their flank. So either they reposition to focus on you, or they reposition to get away from you, any repositioning aside from the normal retreating from aoes is 90% fatal. Like scattering or splitting in half.

It’s just basic strategy. Flanking works so beautifully even if it’s a single person causing the distraction. You get an enemy zerg where 50% of the people are facing behind them or to the side and they’re just dead.

ArchonWing.9480:

Thanks for this post, lots to chew over here, and I recognized a lot of truth in it as well.

The stat info you gave is especially interesting and puzzling for me. I’ve tried both rabid and rampager, and was planning to go with rabid when I make my ascended gear. But what you said about rampager scaling better gave me pause for thought. The problem with rampager though is that I’d feel naked running with so little toughness. (I’m currently 6/6/0/02, experiment-fail roaming build)

Though having said that, the engis I’ve met drop my health so quickly that I’m wondering if toughness won’t be an issue.

Another question I have is a general question about survivability vs glass cannons. In wvw do you think it’s generally better to be a defensive minded spec/class vs an all out damage class? It seems to me the only class which can really get away with traiting 6/6 anything is a thief. But I’ve seen so many face melters from all classes while roaming, I can’t help wonder how many actually do spec as glass cannons.

Mnemesis.8257:

@dancingmonkey: Made me laugh… my frand!

Iluth.6875:

Well I’m a WvWer, so my play style varies from zerging to attempted roaming. I have to admit I dodge pretty randomly/panicky. I tend not to notice what the enemy is even doing, and I have really poor awareness of the abilities of the other class, and I dont pay attention much to their buffs or such. Usually just see their rank and begin panicking.

First of all, you need to gain control of your emotions and reflexes. This is not going to happen overnight or successfully. The only way you will do better in this respect is to hot join in pvp and train yourself by fighting anyone and everyone. Eventually you start to see trends/patterns that are indicative of each profession.

Iluth.6875:

I don’t feel as an engi that I have that many condi removals even though I bring as many heals with me as possible (healing turret + e-gun) I resort to using the active ability of the turret to clear conditions.

The hard truth here is that we don’t, aside from 409 (which most ppl hate) and Elixir C is effectively useless as a utility. The best option here is to simply avoid conditions at all costs, whether through dodging/blocks/stealth.

Iluth.6875:

Despite what I said before, I do feel like I’m doing the right things, but it just doesn’t feel effective enough. My heavy build felt like paper, and my condi build felt like a peashooter. I know I have some issues to clear up with my knowledge of the game, but I’m also unsure how much my exotics only gear is holding me back. Btw right now I’m trying out prec/tough/condi gear.

Personally, I don’t think gear is the factor here, but rather as you said your knowledge of the game. I have found Engineer to be most optimal with either Berserk or Rabid (prec/tough/cond), and have fallen out of love with Celestial after this update. Trying to be real with you here, Engineer is a fast paced profession that requires you to know every one of its mechanics; there is a good chance that it may not be right for you if you can’t cross that bridge.

I have a good understanding of my own class, and usually go with x3 kits purely for the amount of utility it brings me. But from my own experience in other games, I feel the best experience a player can get is actually playing as other classes as to properly learn their strengths and weaknesses. This is something I’ve neglected in Gw2 because I just don’t have the patience I had for that dedication I had while playing wow.

Another issue is that I’ve just zerged the entire time up until this point. I’ve done very little pvp, and did really well in that game mode (as a thief) I just got bored of how easy it is to play a thief which is why I rerolled engi.

I have to agree the update feels pretty lacklustre. A invuln before turrets are oneshotted doesn’t feel like a fix to me.

The engi class drew me in with it’s turrets, and they’re literally the weakest feature of the class. They’re fragile, they destroy your mobility and their cooldowns are too long.

I’ve done dungeons, wvw and soloing and as much as I love turrets, there is a more effective build for any of those scenarios.

AsmallChicken.9634:

Depending on what game mode.
For WvW zerg fighting, Engis still don’t really have much of a role. Sure you can try to make something work, but in general another class usually provides what an engi provides but better.

It breaks my heart to hear you say that. Do other people feel this way also? I’ve mained an bunker/flamer Engi in wvw since launch doing zergs, and I have to say that I literally destroy enemy zergs with the disruption that an engi can bring.

The amount of punishment an engi can take is quite insane. And my favourite thing to do is break away from my own zerg and hit the enemy from the back or side with supply crate, then my flamethrower and watch them scatter like scared rabbits. Our zerg meanwhile is stacked up and buffed and just tears into the scattered enemy and destroys them. The feeling of knowing that you created that chaos just by running among the enemy and sending them fleeing is immense.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Howdy folks! Dancing monkery here, #5286th engi in NA and worlds Last rank 80! With a 100% Win ratio against Vee Wee in Combat !!!

Nope, no cookie cutter build needed.

What is needed, is a little scope and some concept of reference from you.

What type of play style do you like? Do you dodge properly? What do you feel the other players are doing that make you an easy kill? Do you have additional ways to avoid condition damage such as cleansing, or do you have additional manners of negating direct damage?

To offer you any assistance, first we need to have some concept of the possible causes of the problem, and not just the end result of the problem.

Well I’m a WvWer, so my play style varies from zerging to attempted roaming. I have to admit I dodge pretty randomly/panicky. I tend not to notice what the enemy is even doing, and I have really poor awareness of the abilities of the other class, and I dont pay attention much to their buffs or such. Usually just see their rank and begin panicking.

I don’t feel as an engi that I have that many condi removals even though I bring as many heals with me as possible (healing turret + e-gun) I resort to using the active ability of the turret to clear conditions.

Despite what I said before, I do feel like I’m doing the right things, but it just doesn’t feel effective enough. My heavy build felt like paper, and my condi build felt like a peashooter. I know I have some issues to clear up with my knowledge of the game, but I’m also unsure how much my exotics only gear is holding me back.

Btw right now I’m trying out prec/tough/condi gear.

Snowreap.5174:

it wouldn’t surprise me at all to hear that SBI is currently fielding a much-higher-than-normal proportion of bandwagoners and fairweathers.

most of the ‘pro’ WvW players probably finished all their achievements long ago, saw that they are so far ahead that first place is locked in this week, and simply decided to take a break because they’ve had months to get in all the seal clubbing they would ever want.

-ken

You know you’re probably right, I hadn’t thought of this. A lot of our regulars will bow out and take a break after a tight matchup, especially if the following matchup is a blowout.

Edit: Nah I take it back, I just got 40 vs 1’d and a silver champion though it was hilarious. It’s just a zerg mentality server, no mystery here.

Omne.4603:

Iluth.6875:

Seeing a lot of dancing and emoting from SBI as you faceroll our keeps which contain about 10 people trying to defend it. Stay classy guys.

Here’s an idea, if you want a challenge (you seem like you don’t) go and knock on Ebays keep for a change. They’re hardly doing any better than we are, but #1 picking on #3 EVERY SINGLE DAY is pretty lame for someone with as huge win margin as you have right now.

Is it really reasonable to expect different? Not of SBI, but of anyone in this situation including NSP. I see plenty of NSP people in a zerg doing the same emote crap when the simple fact is there terrible players and have no room to be mocking anyone. Your not complaining about SBI or WvW so much as your complaining about the nature of open world pvp. There will be sads, there will be mads and there will be bads. Doesn’t matter the server.

I agree there are bads mads and sads in every server. The reason I’m bring it up though is that SBI in particular seem to have a much higher ratio than normal. I know you prefer to believe that every server is the same, but it’s not so. I wouldn’t bring it up unless it seemed particularly unusual to me.

I haven’t seen a single encounter yet where someone from SBI isn’t laughing or dancing or otherwise acting like an idiot when the odds are stacked highly in their favour.

I can understand emoting for when tempers are running hot, but SBI don’t even break a sweat destroying us and still feel like they need to humilate us more?

Their server has a bad reputation for a reason.

Seeing a lot of dancing and emoting from SBI as you faceroll our keeps which contain about 10 people trying to defend it. Stay classy guys.

Here’s an idea, if you want a challenge (you seem like you don’t) go and knock on Ebays keep for a change. They’re hardly doing any better than we are, but #1 picking on #3 EVERY SINGLE DAY is pretty lame for someone with as huge win margin as you have right now.

Daddar.5971:

What we have in WvW is a simple product of the law of supply and demand. WvW spots are in short supply, and the new AP rewards have raised the demand. I propose that A-net do what airlines and hotels do: implement a system that adjusts costs to reflect the demand at a given time. A new system might look something like this:

1. At the close of the WvW season, there will be an interim period during which transfers to a lower-population server are free, and all other transfers are half price. This will encourage transfers to lower population servers, alleviating the population imbalance to some degree. At the end of the interim period, the new season will begin, and server transfers will return to the normal price.

2. All queues will be staged from the Edge of the Mists. The Edge of the Mists will have overflows, so there should be no issue entering that map. Players will not be able to queue for a full WvW map from any PvE or PvP zone.

3. A player wishing to enter a map with a queue will need to pay a fee to do so. This fee will scale with the number of players already queued for the map. Maps without a queue will be free to enter, while fees to queue up will vary from 1-10 silver according to the length of the queue. These fees are similar to the WP fees incurred during normal PvE play, and are therefore not an excessive burden. Players on servers with extremely long queues will potentially pay 10 silver per half-hour in WvW, while players on servers with no queue will pay nothing. Please see item 1 above for the solution to any complaints about this.

4. Queue wait times will no longer be random, but will now be on a first in, first out basis. If a player wishes to play with a party, then all players to be included should queue at the same time to ensure that all get in within a short time span. After 10 minutes of inactivity, any player in a map with a queue will automatically be transferred to the Edge of the Mists. WvW maps are intended for active play.

5. Every half hour, the queue length for a player’s current map will be displayed. A dialog will appear, giving players on queued maps the option to pay the queue fee to remain on the map, or exit to the Edge of the Mists. An option in the settings menu will enable players to automatically pay the queue fee to avoid having the dialog appear. Players wishing to move from one queued map to another must do so by moving to the Edge of the Mists, and entering the queue for the new map, if any.

6. Gold rewards, especially for successful defensive actions such as keep or tower defense or dolyak escort will be increased slightly to compensate for the new fees. Players who a deploy a superior siege weapon from their inventory and spend any supply to build it will be exempt from fees for the next half hour period. Again, this will compensate players for the costs incurred on behalf of their server.

A system like this will accomplish several important goals. First, it will provide incentive to players to choose a server that has fewer active WvW players and smaller queues, reducing WvW population imbalances and thus making more servers competitive with each other. Second, it will provide an additional gold sink to counter the gold inflation the game is experiencing. Third, it will reduce frustration and increase player enjoyment because there will be more servers that are evenly matched and thus equally able to compete with each other for season rewards. Fourth, the system will incentivize active play, so that players will no longer enter WvW, taking up a valuable queue spot, only to go AFK for an extended period.

Encouraging players is fine and dandy, the problem is that low population servers do not have the players needed, no matter how many carrots you throw at them.

We are now moving to the discussion phase of this initiative

This kind of suggests that you’re happy with how matchups are arranged at the moment. This is quite concerning.

Natronix.9827:

Interesting match up. Looking foward to it c:<
please try to keep the thread cleeeean.

Alright I’ll throw the first bottle.

Is that “Hella Pro” guild ele commander, one of IoJs LA commanders, or a WvW regular?

Chickenshoes.6250:

^ People are already farming low-level champs in queensdale so they obviously don’t need a huge leap in incentive to continue it.

The right balance should be to make the champ a decently-rewarded kill but not make them the only things people want to kill.

It’s already been stated that the champ you kill has to be on level to get a reward from it.

I’m assuming this is not literally on level, but within say 3-4 levels of it.

Yes the champ loot I was initially quite happy about, is going to devalue extremely fast I think.

This might actually be very bad news to anyone who runs Orr for money.

codiac.5642:

You on the other hand, have been steadily staying in the same place you have always been when in a match up with us.

Not first.

http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/42/54
http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/42/56

I don’t lose. I simply postpone my attack until you mess up.

This is a better view of how many time’s you have come in 2nd and 3rd behind us.

http://mos.millenium.org/servers/history/28

week 9
week 10
week 11
week 14
week 15
week 16
week 27
week 28

7/9 times we came in before you.

We all know that wining is related to population size. The measure of effectiveness is the change in rating. How many times did HoD have a better rating outcome than NSP? Looks to be … 7/9?

I’ve never understood why people who are beaten are happy about earning rating gain for it. It’s a false consolation prize. The only thing it earns you is the right to be stomped by bigger servers with better rating as you move up the ladder by losing.

Kano.3720:

Is HoD and NSP married? you havn’t touched eachothers BL in the past 4 days and HoD take our EB while NSP hits our BL. Guess when one sucks the must use foul play

Nah we don’t have any deals going on. Aside from the normal stuff where on thursday and friday, #1 and #3 team up on #2.

We can pretend we coordinated stuff if it would make you feel better.

fishball.7204:

It’s sad that SoS’ best matchup in the past 7 weeks was SoS/CD/SBI.

We had some close matchups in our tier at least. All 3 servers were within about 4k points of each other all week. It seems like the random aspect of the matchmaking has been nerfed a bit which I am very happy about. Had some terrible blowouts at the start of that thing. And it seems like there are still some going on.

As a guy who plays on a relatively underpopulated server, I really liked the idea of the breakout event. But after awhile, I realized that the breakout event is actually MORE useful to the strong/populated servers than it is the weak/underpopulated servers.

First reason for this is basically numbers. Underpopulated servers are by their very nature, underpopulated. So gathering together 10 people to start the event is more difficult for them than largers servers.

I’m not suggesting that the amount required is actually lowered though. But I believe strongly that only the third place server should be able to utilize them.

So many times our server has been in third place, and we watch the #1 server with say a 50k lead over us start a breakout event, and it just seems totally wrong they can use Siegerazer to capture a tower for free, and then get 100 supply to drain afterwards.

3 defenders can defend a tower vs 10 guys. But 3 defenders vs Siegerazer and 10 guys? Not happening.

Please make it so that only truly disadvantaged servers can utilize this function.

Thieves can contribute to a zerg just fine, shortbow with sigil of fire is very good.

I do agree we need more synergy with other classes or some way to contribute a little more to a group.

Also thief 1v1 can use some nerfs big time.

Mif.3471:

They’re probably too busy working on the 9th sPvP map to work a 3rd WvW map.

Hilarious and true +1

Mif.3471:

Iluth.6875:

Mif.3471:

Iluth.6875:

We took Briar, then lost 90% of the golems (I think we had 60 of them) after getting caught in a bottleneck after taking down inner south of Bay. We were countered quite easily because the defense was prepared for us.

The defence was prepared for you because you showed your band by golem rushing Briar on the way to bay. A properly executed golem rush, which has no warning, is effectively unstoppable when the math is scaled to 30 golems.

Iluth.6875:

The time, organization and effort required to run an effective golem rush is worth the reward of flipping a BL.

It’s takes 3 hours to upgrade bay, 3 hours to upgrade Garrison, and 3 hours to upgrade hills.
A 30 golem rushed flips them all in 15 minutes, and there is no effective way to defend against it.

Go run yaks and pay for upgrades for a night, then tell me it’s fair and not game breaking.

I’m actually one of the guys who does a lot of the boring stuff. Yak running and overwatch and such, so that upgrades don’t get spoiled by people trying to ninja our stuff. So I fully appreciate how much it sucks to have a keep ninjad, whatever method is used to do so (mesmer, stealth siege or golems)

And I’ll reiterate, golem rushes are not uncounterable. If you have nobody watching your keep and you lose it, that’s your bad. If you don’t notice suspicious activity like all your camps getting flipped by people wearing the same guild tag, and your spidey senses aren’t telling you “they’re building golems” then it’s your bad. It’s fully possible to counter it, you just need to be vigilant smart and prepared (and paranoid)

It’s a lot of fun when it goes right also, you should try it. I agree also that if the game devolves into only golem rushing, that will be boring as hell. Almost as boring as trebbing everything to death. But I don’t see either scenario happening yet even with the current siege prices.

I do agree with your points about being vigilant for golem rushes.

The issue I have is with scaling. A point can be reached where the total health pool of the golems exceeds the amount of damage that can be done to them (especially factoring the map siege limits) in the time it takes for the golems to reach the lord room.

I think as it is right now, siege still hits unlimited targets, so it doesn’t really matter how many golems you stack in one place to artificially bump their health pool.

Couple of superior ACs behind a gate are a very effective counter against 5 or so golems.

10 golems for a reinforced gate is pretty OP though I’ll give you that, but only if nobody is actually defending it.

Anything more than 10 is just silly and potentially a huge waste. For every successful golem rush, I’ve seen an inexperienced commander take out 10-15 golems and get them all wiped in the field, or killed under oil or cannon fire.

Mif.3471:

Iluth.6875:

We took Briar, then lost 90% of the golems (I think we had 60 of them) after getting caught in a bottleneck after taking down inner south of Bay. We were countered quite easily because the defense was prepared for us.

The defence was prepared for you because you showed your band by golem rushing Briar on the way to bay. A properly executed golem rush, which has no warning, is effectively unstoppable when the math is scaled to 30 golems.

Iluth.6875:

The time, organization and effort required to run an effective golem rush is worth the reward of flipping a BL.

It’s takes 3 hours to upgrade bay, 3 hours to upgrade Garrison, and 3 hours to upgrade hills.
A 30 golem rushed flips them all in 15 minutes, and there is no effective way to defend against it.

Go run yaks and pay for upgrades for a night, then tell me it’s fair and not game breaking.

I’m actually one of the guys who does a lot of the boring stuff. Yak running and overwatch and such, so that upgrades don’t get spoiled by people trying to ninja our stuff. So I fully appreciate how much it sucks to have a keep ninjad, whatever method is used to do so (mesmer, stealth siege or golems)

And I’ll reiterate, golem rushes are not uncounterable. If you have nobody watching your keep and you lose it, that’s your bad. If you don’t notice suspicious activity like all your camps getting flipped by people wearing the same guild tag, and your spidey senses aren’t telling you “they’re building golems” then it’s your bad. It’s fully possible to counter it, you just need to be vigilant smart and prepared (and paranoid)

The warning signs of an impending golem rush are pretty easy to spot if you have people in your BL scouting. There is plenty of time to alert your server that something is going down. Catch the golems in mid field and wipe them, or hide in the keep and suddenly wipe them with door trebs and arrow carts. Wiping golem rushes is just as fun as flipping a bl with them.

I do agree also that if the game devolves into only golem rushing, that will be boring as hell. Almost as boring as trebbing everything to death. But I don’t see either scenario happening yet even with the current siege prices.

salluks.6017:

Anet is thinking how to get WvWers to PVE, not the other way around. cant u tell?

^ This.

To get PVEers into WvW, make it I dunno, a viable way of making money. Or, wait til people flee the game and each server has not enough population to defend their stuff. Because it really feels like PVE when you’re taking an unmanned keep.

So basically 3 different borderlands and EB. Instead of 3 cut n paste borderlands and EB.

Don’t know if this has been promised to us previously, and is just on a very long to-do list, but I think the begging for new maps bears repeating.

I do absolutely appreciate the time involved in creating a map, since it has to be carefully balanced. Every single hill and hole is a strategic advantage to someone, or a possible exploit. But WvW really does need an injection of something new, cause basically two maps is an awful little for how long the game mode has been up and running.

Mif.3471:

Zero.7345:

-facepalm- What’s the point of having walls again?

Definition of “game-breaking”.

We took Briar, then lost 90% of the golems (I think we had 60 of them) after getting caught in a bottleneck after taking down inner south of Bay. We were countered quite easily because the defense was prepared for us. So I wouldn’t call it game-breaking at all.

If we hadn’t been in a lulz mood and had used a ground force to take out siege ahead of us it might have been a different story. But still I wouldn’t say game-breaking. The time, organization and effort required to run an effective golem rush is worth the reward of flipping a BL.

Zero.7345:

-facepalm- What’s the point of having walls again?

That wasn’t actually a serious golem rush, it was just for fun since it was Bird’s birthday.

Having said that, golems are probably getting more use nowdays due to how cheap they are, but all siege is more plentiful nowdays (arrow carts for 1s40 anyone?) And I think this is a good thing. WvW is a gold sink, so this change is very welcome to me.

Will it change how the game will be played? Not drastically. Golem rushing is effective, but it takes organization and it’s slow, and can be countered easily with a little organization by those who are defending. People just have to adapt and up their defensive game. Teamspeak, scouts/sentries makes all the difference.

ArkAngel.7940:

Iluth, this is for you. A parting gift.

LOL

Sad thing is, even your organized joke necro zerg is smaller than your actual necro zergs.

Perhaps you could’ve gotten more people to participate if all your guys hadn’t ragequit halfway through last night.

Kanthar Turambar.9164:

anthsss.1564:

Kanthar Turambar.9164:

Iluth.6875:

Kanthar Turambar.9164:

This thread. It amuses me. I love that apparently only HOD has no skill yet when they post videos/images of them taking on harder odds… apparently it doesn’t count. Good stuff.

Games over the interwebs are the best.

Hod is about 50% necros atm, so them beating the odds isn’t really that amazing.

Additionally, every server has skilled players, and the bad ones tend not to post videos. So don’t put too much importance on some roamers posting stuff on Youtube, no matter what server they are from.

Depending on who you ask, we’re 50% necros, 50% guardians, 50% mesmers, or 50% rangers. I think i’ve seen all of them applied to us. That’s like, 200% No wonder we beat the odds!

To your second point, that essentially proves my point I was trying to make. It’s entirely pointless who argue about “skill”. The sole purpose of talking about skill is to bait people into forum warrioring. In the end, every server has skill, every server lacks skill. Every time skill is shown, it’s usually ignored if someone is convinced they know all that there is to know about the topic.

The people are estimating how many necros they have seen in comparison to other people on your server, and it seems that there are a lot of people that run necros on your server. Is that hard to understand? The semantics of the exact percentage of necros that are running around in WvW on your server is silly to even bring up into a discussion because nobody knows those figures and it would be a pain for anybody to even attempt to research those figures other than somebody at arenanet, and it would likely be a very safe bet to make, that the amount of necros playing on HoD in WvW is not a huge talking point at arenanet.

A lot of players on HoD are playing Necro. Simple, true, and you can’t scrutinize the semantics of a “guess-timation.” If you need me to simplify more things for you to understand, just send me a whisper in game and I’ll help you out.

“Hod is about 50% necros atm, so them beating the odds isn’t really that amazing.”

I don’t care what the percentage estimate is, I don’t care what the class is, my point was apparently no matter what class we supposedly run more of, beating the odds apparently isn’t amazing, because we run whatever class they happened to see a lot of. Feel free to explain my flaws to me, I play under the same name normally.

Well lets just say that the sudden popularity of necros doesn’t have much to do with the gameplay or flavour of the class.

I wish my own server were such a bunch of soulless minmaxers, we could have farmed you guys even harder this week.

anthsss.1564:

jbondo.9817:

Shout out to the 30+ zerg in HoD that was half Os and completely wiped to a bunch of pugs off HoD hahaha

Shouts out to Bird Song for dieing so many times out there

Want to know what’s really funny? HoD is on it’s way to 3rd place right now

It’d be a terrible shame if we suddenly double teamed up with ioj for the sole purpose of putting HoD into third.

We wouldn’t do that, would we?

ArkAngel.7940:

50% necros? Lol. I mean just lol. I can’t even… Hahaha. Classic

You’re right, sometimes it’s more like 75%

I think you actually have one guild that only allows Necros. They were pretty active last night.

Kanthar Turambar.9164:

This thread. It amuses me. I love that apparently only HOD has no skill yet when they post videos/images of them taking on harder odds… apparently it doesn’t count. Good stuff.

Games over the interwebs are the best.

Hod is about 50% necros atm, so them beating the odds isn’t really that amazing.

Additionally, every server has skilled players, and the bad ones tend not to post videos. So don’t put too much importance on some roamers posting stuff on Youtube, no matter what server they are from.

jbondo.9817:

as long as IoJ is last i’m happy.
i’m disapointed Bird Song won’t 1v1 me.
guess he needs a force of 40+ to help him around the maps.

I have no idea how skilled Bird is or isn’t, but asking for a 1v1 with a commander is stupid. Those guys aren’t built for it, but you most likely are. The biggest smack talkers I’ve found are the roamers.

Btw, what class were you planning to bring to this 1v1 you wanted?

I like this idea.

I do actually kill 100% of rangers nowdays without even breaking a sweat. High ranked ones too. Nobody I’ve ever heard of has complained about rangers being OP in WvW actually, either on my server or on the forums. They’re just pretty much free kills.

Thieves on the other hand are difficult and many people complain about them. I just still dont understand why the only time someone says “l2p” its because they cant kill a thief. All other classes are fairly easy to kill, just not thieves.

I’m not sure if you’re just having fun with me or what, it’s a fairly well recognized fact among all players that thieves are currently op and need a nice nerf.

Fenrir.6183:

This is no argument, it’s baseless crap. You just say things, bring some proofs, bring some facts.
My facts: thieves that are specced for roaming kills and high stealth have only a few ways to break stun. If you look at the build i linked, there’s no stability. You could swap the poison for dagger storm but then you have 1 stability that’s usable only once every 90 secs.
Learn
to
play
the
kitten
game.

Also, why are you taking a camp all by yourself ? And why are you complaining if a thief kills you while you’re doing so ?
If you weren’t at the camp yet, why bother fighting the thief ?
All classes shouldn’t be the same, and i’m happy they’re not. Else we’d all be playing the same class. A class needs strengths and weaknesses, and you NEED TO LEARN THEM before complaining about it.

edit in reply to your previous post:
You’re not killing 100% of the rangers. If you think you do, once again i’ll say you’re delusional. You might be killing upscaled, or noobs, i dunno. Who said they were good players ? If they’re roaming, they’re not good players anyway. Learn to play.

Yes I kill 100% of rangers and 0% of thieves. I don’t count upscaled players as kills either.

Additionally, I haven’t looked at the build you linked but I’m assuming it doesn’t have shadowstep.

TheAmpca.1753:

Iluth.6875:

thieves have a class mechanic which allows them ignore damage mitigation or health as a valuable stat.

I never knew thieves had invincibility.

I never said stealth gave mitigation. Try reading it again. And then read it again some more.

Fenrir.6183:

Iluth.6875:

Most classes who choose to go GC have survivability problems, thieves have a class mechanic which allows them ignore damage mitigation or health as a valuable stat. All other classes need to take survivability into account, and make a delicate balancing act when it comes to figuring out how much damage to bring to the table and how much damage mitigation.

You’re delusional. Being in stealth does not mean you’re not going to take damage. Just stun or keep hitting. The thief going stealthy doesn’t mean he has disappeared, he’s still pretty much in the same position, even with the +50% run speed, than when he was there earlier.
Keep hitting and keep using your skills.
What don’t you understand in this ? A zerker thief has 12/13k hp, it dies almost instantly if you focus on him.

Okay I see you can’t understand my argument.

I have a question for you then: Why is it that people only need to “learn to play” vs solo thieves, and no other classes?

I don’t consider myself very good, I have a bunker engi, and I kill 100% of the roaming rangers I encounter. 100% This is not due to me being good, or rangers being bad. It’s a thing called “class imbalance”

Fenrir.6183:

Saying it won’t make it magically become true. Either provide some proof/arguments to back up this and you won’t make a complete fool of yourself.
Thieves have NO advantage over other classes. They clearly lack good AoEs, and are weak against conditions. Stealth is pretty fun but it doesn’t provide any kind of protection…stun the thief and he’s pretty much as good as dead if no stunbreaker is up (zerker assumed here).

edit: this is what i’d call a typicall d/d roaming killer build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoYVlUmaO3eS6E/JFy2jKUnIKOFOFSpVgm6KgVA-jUCBYLCiUgg0HQEBAJPFRjtNoIasqFYqSER1eDFRrGA-w
Learn about its strength and its weakness and improve yourself. When you have done so, and know what you’re talking about, come back.
Honestly, the best way to beat a thief is actually having played one (but that can be said for every class).

I already made my argument. GC’s die to thieves because they have no mitigation, and bunkers either die to or fail to kill thieves due to not having burst damage.

I’m not a roamer by choice, I can’t go retrait my character every time I need to take a camp for my underpopulated server. And in my experience encountering soloers, nobody has been as disgustingly difficult to kill as thieves. It’s just mathmatical fact that they’re a faceroll solo class.

Sure it’s what theyre built for, in my opinion all classes should be able to roam equally well or bunker equally well. This is what Anet stated at the outset in their mission statement actually.

Aberrant.6749:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Fenrir.6183:

Sunflowers.1729:

Surbrus.6942:

Sunflowers.1729:

Unless you are squishy (or not running solo), you have a snowball’s chance in hell of bursting me down before I stealth again and run away if things go wrong.

So what? In an objective based game type (WvW), sending the enemy running with their tail between their legs is a win.

But I’m just saying that unless you are squishy (which the OP is saying not to do), then you will never beat me.

Doesn’t have anything to do with objective-based games or anything – that’s a different topic, and the Thief forum has already shown me that they respond to all arguments with ‘L2P noob’ and insults. So I will not bother with arguing this point.

I’m not squishy and i can beat a thief. It’s called “using conditions”. Stop trying to be 1337 and put some oil on the fire the stealth is generating. Thieves are going to end up badly nerfed if this goes on (whiners + socalled leet players).
Nice post OP.

One BIG problem with that – What if you are not a Necromancer? sure the other classes or some of them at least have condition builds but none as strong as the Necromancer

Try HgH Cond Eng… Seriously… try it. It’s kitten amazing.

Iluth.6875:

Squishies die to thieves because thieves do too much damage. Bunkers die to thieves since they cant burst them before the thief runs away.

Thieves are badly balanced in wvw. This is not a difficult concept for anyone to grasp, aside from thieves.

Please show me a decent bunker guard/mes that’s regularly dying from a roaming thief.

Seriously… thieves go into other forums at times and ask how do I beat your class. Most of the time the response is hope they built for a zerg, are noob, or you’re not going to win. Once you hit a certain skill threshold… thieves become pretty bad in comparison to the other classes.

It sounds like you’re talking about bad thieves who are wondering why their heartseeker spam isn’t killing a good bunker guard.

Thieves have the problem of being powerful in the hands of a bad player, and immortal in the hands of a good one.

Fenrir.6183:

Iluth.6875:

Thieves are badly balanced in wvw. This is not a difficult concept for anyone to grasp, aside from thieves.

My main is not a thief yet i don’t understand what you mean. My main is a ranger, i also play a warrior…and very rarely a thief. Thieves are at a big disadvantage in wvw when specc’d for 1v1 (obviously). So the ones that you keep complaining about are not badly balanced for wvw, they just specialized in killing idiots that can’t stay with other guys. On a gigantic map. With guards everywhere, towers, keeps.
Just think about it. Why were you there in the first place ? You died ? You should have rezzed and formed a group to get back to the zerg / tower/ keep / whatever objective you were fighting for. You’re alone ? Don’t complain if any player specc’d for 1v1 kills you then.

The thing you’re failing to see is that a thief can be specced for 1v1 with far fewer disadvantages than other classes.

Most classes who choose to go GC have survivability problems, thieves have a class mechanic which allows them ignore damage mitigation or health as a valuable stat. All other classes need to take survivability into account, and make a delicate balancing act when it comes to figuring out how much damage to bring to the table and how much damage mitigation.

It’s not roamers I have a problem with. I have a fair chance against all roamers despite being bunker specced. Thieves are just broken, and yes I used to main one before I gave up in disgust. I know they are broken from both sides of the table.

People really shouldn’t be running squishy builds in WvW and running solo (including thieves) sine they die easily. Your second sentence is self-contradicting, a thief that runs away is not a thief that is doing any damage since they are running away.

Like it said, it doesn’t really matter what choice you make, thief has the advantage over you due to inherent design flaws and bad balancing. You’re a thief so you cannot see this.

If You Are Squishy Running Solo Don’t come complaining to the forums when a thief destroys you.

Squishies die to thieves because thieves do too much damage. Bunkers die to thieves since they cant burst them before the thief runs away.

Thieves are badly balanced in wvw. This is not a difficult concept for anyone to grasp, aside from thieves.

I would say guard. Nobody listens to a dead commander I found.

We have a few that aren’t guards, and it doesn’t inspire much confidence in people if they have to keep ressing their blue dorito who is supposed to be leading them to glory and loot bags, and such.

jadjay.8701:

this game had such potential but again its lead by Devs who don’t give a rats crap about their player base. instead of putting in tiered population caps on boarderlands they keep spending their time on fluff events.

Yeah it’s a little puzzling. Every month they roll out some of this living story stuff that nobody I know actually cares about. Occupies us for maybe a couple of hours to do whatever content and get the reward, if we actually want it.

I spend far more time in WvW and dungeons than anything else. Yet Anet think their best plan is to focus on content which will generate them cash through the trading post.

That’s short term thinking Anet, please prioritize. Fix the basic mechanics of the game, then get ambitious afterwards.

frostshade.3617:

honestly thieves arent that bad my engi jus giggles when they try to attack it and keeps walking… like a lil insect buzzing in my ear is annoying but doesnt hurt

Yeah but have you ever killed one?

I have a bunker engi in full soldier gear, and a gc thief can stab me for 6k, thats not an insect as far as I’m concerned.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

If they were 20 vs 1, you all were really bad.

If they were taking them on 1 at a time, you just need to learn how to deal with them in relation to your profession. You may have to change your build for a more 1v1 situation if you wish to go in there and fight. If you have done all that, you just need to learn how to deal with them in relation to your profession.

They are not difficult to deal with at all.

Why is it that nobody has to learn how to beat any other class in the game except for thieves?

Why is it that nobody has to learn how to beat an engi, a warr, a ranger, a necro, a guard or an ele (mesmer is another story, but that’s another topic)

The problem with thieves is that they have above bunker levels of survivability, note I didn’t say mitigation, combined with insane damage. That needs fixing. And you can cry about learning to play all you like, but it’s really just a case of people defending their thieves because they’re terrified of getting nerfed.

Raven.9603:

Blue Marine.6782:

Oh here is some proof that Borlis Savers have some spies in their guild as this screen shows the man clearly jumped off the cliff in our golem to hinder our small rush. Guess I need to tell my spies to start doing this to eh?

Does an SBI/NSP player paying for a second account on BP and joining your guild just to throw your golem off a cliff really seem more probable than some random just trying to troll you guys?

There’s also the third scenario which is the golem driver was one of those “I wanna drive the robot” guys.

Aeros.2046:

Maladon.5760:

Aeros.2046:

Raven.9603:

Fraeg.9837:

I think of it as college divisions. We might be doing ok in our division but would have no business going up against a Division I team because we are just a small New England liberal arts college with only about 3,000 students. Or something like that.

as long as you’re admitting that BP is a liberal arts college full of future starving artists and SBI students are actually studying something useful at tech university.

I guess that makes NSP some random high school team thats making us all look bad by not losing hard enough.

Server ranking is very much based on how many people on the server play WvW. It does not matter how much skill you have if an opponent can fill all the maps 24/7 and you can’t do the same, which is generally what occurs with the tiers above 4 from what I understand. It also sucks hard if you don’t have a large Australian/Asian player base but your opponent does, because this means at 3 AM all your stuff is getting PvDoored and made wood overnight, forcing you to spend the morning clawing back, and the evening upgrading only to have it happen all over again after you go to bed.

Incidentally, there is still no reason for SBI to be losing this match. Yet they still insist on sending 70 Man zombie hordes against the 10-15 people we got in Eternal while their Borderlands is left to the tender mercies of our skill groups.

You just illustrated the reason why SBI is now losing the match. We have a lot of primetime and weekend players. We did very well over the weekend and now our coverage gaps are coming into play. Right now you’re ticking 360 to our 135 because you have more people playing right now than we do. It’s not a knock against you guys or even an excuse for us, it’s just the way the game is played.

It doesn’t really matter what happens in primetime, there are more off-peak hours in the day. We could literally run the table before midnight every night but be unable to defend anything an hour or two later. Most of us go to bed then go to work the next day. You’ve got good coverage, enjoy it.

This is simply not true. BP does not have better coverage then NSP. We are just better at managing our forces.

This is the thing. You guys have a huge zerg blob smacking our towers in Eternal, but it does not matter. Points tick every 15 minutes. It does not MATTER if you Paper Mendons Gap and Anzalius Pass every 20 minutes if you don’t actually try and hang onto it, because our Eternal Crew will simply flip it back before the points turn over and you get no utility out of it.

Furthermore, you don’t hang onto things like you should. When we take something important (like your Garrison) we usually build a bajillion Arrow Carts and wait for you to try and take it back. Take the fight we had in Bay yesterday, and you know the one I am talking about, where you failed to cap the Lords Room three times with the third time being a patch update.

We have nowhere near enough people to put 15-20 people into enemy keeps that we take. (or even 5 people) 5 people is what we call “borderlands defense team”

Part of it is an organizational problem. Our guilds don’t recruit enough, and we have far too much pugging going on. We did have a lot of numbers on the map last week, but that’s cause we were winning, and all the casuals and pvers came along for a looksee.

Now we’re third again and nobody is interested. Business as usual.