Guild Wars 2

DeceiverX.8361:

Absurdo.8309:

Doam.8305:

Game isn’t balanced for beans.

The reason so many people raid percentage wise compared to other games is because other games are balanced. Dungeons, WvW, and so forth are all dead people leaving in swaths due to esports balancing their classes for all modes and crunching the visual flair. Anet can’t do more than one thing at a time and even SAB goes away the 19th leaving us back at square one afterwards.

But like others have said elitism the white knights and rampant elitism that grows from raids has ended with the destruction of more than it’s fair share of MMO’s. Many people came to Gw2 as a haven from that type of thing but after the elitsit killed their own games they came to GW2 and are now trying to destroy it usin the same type of raid rhetoric used in so many other games which lead to their own collapses. I’d say go back to your old heavy raid oriented game but I’d say it either doesn’t exist anymore or is a complete and utter ghost town right now which is the fate of any game that caters to the elitist and not the casual and history proves it as such.

If you don’t like raiding as content, then, well, don’t raid?

Raids have been generally well received by the players that do them. They are one of the most polished parts of this game.

Honestly, the only “elitist” attitude I’ve seen is from non raiders. It seems selfish to me to demand that all content cater to your skill level. The real problem is the severe lack of content since HOT.

That said, I’ll be in SAB all weekend. Not sure whether I’ll want to beat all the wing 2 bosses this week.

I wish it was a matter of skill. That’s the thing. Raids are not at all indicative of skilled play. It’s just optimization and then executing on it. There’s not much intrinsically difficult on the personal level so much as build-dependent and so long as the raid leader knows how to order people around. Removing the timer would make them a lot more approachable and remove much of the elitism associated with fixed builds. The pug dungeon community was quite large. I’ve never joined a zerk/AP requirement dungeon group nor have I started one, and some of the pug groups I have joined have rivaled some guilds’ speed clear times, despite the groups not being fully optimized or people abiding to a strict strategy deemed by the community as “necessary.”

Given the opportunity to play as they want to, they’ll complete the content together. Raiding should be hard on skill, not hard on build-dependence and composition.

How would you suggest making a raid hard based on skill if it’s easy based on build and group comp?

• You could lower the time between tell and attack, or reduce the time tolerance on re-positioning. Result: You’d lower the numbers of players who can complete it, not increase accessibility. There would be no impact on any PuG meta other than reducing the overall number of players who want to raid.
• You could remove the timers. Result: You’d have dungeons 2.0. The raid would be easier overall and there would be no impact on the skill needed to complete it. You might see people start raid parties allowing a choice of various types of gear — you might not. The PuG meta would still call for certain builds, gear and tactics because people who want to optimize would still do so. If it’s not needed for basic success, it would be deemed necessary for efficiency.

Your best bet, OP, would be to post in the Dungeons/Fractals/Raids subforum that you are looking for a guild that wants another raider. Post your profession, availability and region. You might get lucky. Relying on PuG’s when your experience with them so far has been “nothing going on,” is not going to work out well.

Good luck.

My suspicion is that your drop rates are fairly average. They’re certainly better than mine…

Healix.5819:

You realize that it doesn’t actually give a time limit right? Those 16 legendaries could have been strung out over the next several years.

As long as they don’t put the remainder of the set of 16 behind the pay wall of the next XPac.
>.>
<.<

Sarrs.4831:

style.6173:

2. Gating legendary armor behind those raids. I thought ANET learned their lesson with ascended gear and fractals. Locking a new tier of armor behind one game mode is bad. Locking a unique skin is smart and what they should have done instead.

I don’t think they ever locked gear behind fractals though, you could always get Laurels and spend them on the rings?

If anything, the ‘worst’ they did was gating the necks behind Laurels and Laurels only.

For the record, Asc. rings (and iirc the forst back item) were put in game ~ the middle of Nov., 2012 with the update that introduced fractals. They were gettable only in FotM at that time.

There was a lot of backlash, and this resulted in Anet promising that not all Asc. pieces would be FotM exclusive, i.e. , that different pieces would come via different types of content. They also stated that they would put in multiple ways to get Asc. pieces. The laurel system was added in late January, 2013. So, Asc. only via FotM lasted a little more than two months.

The worst for me is that the alternative means to get armor/weapons is via drops, and the drop rates are the worst I’ve seen in any MMO. That’s too bad for those of us who look at crafting in GW2 and say, as Weird Al might have said:

I’d rather have my blood sucked out by leeches
Shove an icepick under a toenail or two
I’d rather clean all the bathroom in Grand Central Station with my tongue
Than craft anything in Guild Wars 2.

Being able to swing/bash/shoot/cast while moving with an amount of fluidity unmatched in other MMO’s.

maddoctor.2738:

IndigoSundown.5419:

maddoctor.2738:

I wonder how many people who “won’t get legendary armor” don’t have ascended.

I’d say there’s a fairly high correlation among those who think that making an Asc. set is more trouble than it’s worth. If the issue is can’t/won’t raid, then there may be no correlation. Making Asc. armor is time-gated and content-gated (some), but you neither have to do the “hardest PvE content in the game” nor deal with the vagueries of PuG creation, nor commit the time to raiding with a raid guild.

Yeah but this “hardest PVE content in the game” is what makes Legendary Armor rare. I thought players were asking for other ways of getting that Legendary Armor because it’s too hard from the Raid. Now imagine if this “new” way is easy. Ascended armor is dead.

1. Given what we know about their production issues, how likely is ANet to rework yet more content?
2. Asc. armor likely saw an upsurge when raids debuted. How many of those willing to make it for raids have already done so v. how many haven’t yet done so?
3. As games age, they bleed players. The demand for Asc. armor may have already hit its peak and be in downturn. It will die, or the next best thing, eventually, anyway.
4. In the unlikely event that ANet adds a second means to get L. Armor, how likely is it to be easier to make than Asc. Armor?

@ Wolfman.4358

Expecting people to refrain from reacting emotionally to news about “their” game of choice is a bit much. Your own reaction to their reaction is emotional.

I prefer a more dispassionate approach to reading forums. So, I filter out hyperbole and focus instead on trying to figure out what’s really going on. The primary issues as I see them are that people are complaining about a decision, and that that decision has cost ANet trust.

maddoctor.2738:

I wonder how many people who “won’t get legendary armor” don’t have ascended.

I’d say there’s a fairly high correlation among those who think that making an Asc. set is more trouble than it’s worth. If the issue is can’t/won’t raid, then there may be no correlation. Making Asc. armor is time-gated and content-gated (some), but you neither have to do the “hardest PvE content in the game” nor deal with the vagueries of PuG creation, nor commit the time to raiding with a raid guild.

Astralporing.1957:

IndigoSundown.5419:

You don’t put training wheels on a racing motorcycle.

But not all bikes are racing ones.

Correct. There are lots of bikes and you can ride them on tons of roads. There are only a few races.

It’s a convenience item for players who prefer to salvage in the field off one slot rather than carry 5-6 basic kits like I do. Combine it with an account slot and you free up several slots in all of your characters’ inventories. It’s the sort of convenience item that the store should have, tbh. If you don’t find it convenient, don’t buy it.

You don’t put training wheels on a racing motorcycle.

AysonCurrax.3254:

Even if the legendary weapons project team only had 6 developers, there is no way in hell that a team of 6 produces single to no results in 6 months time, unless said team had been severly miss managed and tossed around between other tasks instead of letting them work on what they are supposed to work on.

1. At a guess, they’ve been fixing the collections that had problems, like the one in Snowden where players have to fail an event to proc a different event that allowed them to get the collectable “thing.”
2. I’m also wondering if the code for much or all of the vanilla game is very complex, and that those who wrote it are gone. I’ve revised and debugged software that someone else wrote (and didn’t annotate at all or very well) and that can be its own special purgatory.
3. If 2 is an issue, then that might explain why it would take this team “years to come” to produce collections that did not ship in the problematic state that some of the initial three had.

You’re welcome. I hope you enjoy the story.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

We got legendary weapons; we’re getting one more.

Now, I admit that I expected more, but upon re-reading the original blog post (and follow-ups in various places), I realize that was me imposing my hopes on their comments — they never promised a full set of 16, only the new process allowing to create our own precursor and some new ones.

I also agree that, at best, ANet mismanaged our expectations — they could have made it clear that only a few legendaries would be offered with launch and that it might take awhile to see more.

Still, in terms of legendaries, they delivered what they said they would.

“Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns will let you begin your journey toward the first new set of legendary weapons to be added to the game since its original set of 20 that were included in the launch of Guild Wars 2.”

From https://heartofthorns.guildwars2.com/game/maguuma/

You can argue that “set” doesn’t mean all of them, but it does in the latter part of the sentence. Also, the fact that the “rest” of them have been put on hold indefinitely argues that Anet thought they were building a full set (minus the UW weapons as has been stated before).

Obtena.7952:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Obtena.7952:

This was a decision that makes sense. Legendary weapons, no matter how awesome, have a very low impact on the game’s activities.

L. items are the pinnacle of the “work towards the cool looks” GW2 endgame. You’d be hard pressed to find another goal that’s as lengthy or expensive, or that even comes close. Crafting them, and Asc. drives the GW2 economy. You’d be hard pressed to name anything else in the PvE game that has a greater impact.

I’m not sure how you equate what has a great impact or not. Legendary weapons are low in my book; high entrance fee, high cost, minimal effect. Pinnacle or not, those factors make it low.

How much impact does gold have on GW2? How does the fact that a ton of stuff is needed for the L. collections impact the economy? I get that the decision makes sense for you. That does not mean that L. weapons have a very low impact on the game as a whole.

Obtena.7952:

This was a decision that makes sense. Legendary weapons, no matter how awesome, have a very low impact on the game’s activities.

L. items are the pinnacle of the “work towards the cool looks” GW2 endgame. You’d be hard pressed to find another goal that’s as lengthy or expensive, or that even comes close. Crafting them, and Asc. drives the GW2 economy. You’d be hard pressed to name anything else in the PvE game that has a greater impact.

Ohoni.6057:

Only ArenaNet controls how Guild Wars 2 works, irregardless of what idea it is you or I have in our heads about how we want it to work. Maybe you just don’t understand what raids were supposed to be, but a good place to start to understand them is from their own words in their introduction blog post: (Link)

The players control what GW2 should be, and when the developers intend the game to go in a certain direction, but the players don’t agree, they shift direction. I just wish you guys were more interested in compromising on this and working towards a mutually agreeable solution, because the more rigid you insist on being, the more likely you’re going to be shattered entirely.

Much more likely outcomes are you being disappointed or Anet acceding to your request … by, oh, say 2025.

Perhaps the most telling point he raised is that Legendary items represent one of the few, if not the only, endgame goal(s) the game offers. Given that, and given that MMO’s are all about long-term goals — at least to a large segment of the population, it’s not hard to understand the negative reaction to the indefinite postponement.

The structure of daily chores has taught me that I hate the new WvW maps less than I hate running around with the herd to do daily events in 1-15 or 15-25 zones or having to wait up to ~3 hours for a meta boss.

I suppose it doesn’t help that I generally log on to do them shortly after reset, so I run into big crowds. This makes the events nothing more than a competition to tag, where to compete one must spam AoE with no targets so that when the targets appear there’s a chance to get “credit.” However, changing my preferred play time to accommodate the game seems more like the tail wagging the dog.

I’m of the opinion that dailies would have been better with the old iteration’s 8 rotating tasks that were PvE oriented (i.e., kills, events anywhere, etc.) with the new iteration’s WvW and PvP tasks added, still with 3 needed to complete and the all-or-nothing AP award.

Galen Grey.4709:

Ohh please can we stop with all the selective hearing? all those intangible ideas you’re talking about were all made clear that they would be arriving after HoT’s launch. And can we please stop making it sound like all HoT is made off is the stuff that has yet to be delivered? How about all the other stuff that was there at launch, that counts for nothing? how about all the other things that were never promised yet they still came like gliding in central tyria, Shatterer revamp, squad revamps, those dont count for anything?

Whether a feature was promised at HoT launch or at some later time is immaterial as far as the disappointment expressed in this thread goes. The thing that matters is whether those features were viewed as part of the HoT purchase because, well, you had to buy HoT to get access to them. So, let’s look:

1. New Legendary Weapons: required HoT purchase due to Mastery needed.
2. Fractal L. Back: New fractals reward system requires a mastery, which requires HoT purchase.
3. Legendary Armor: Raids require HoT purchase.
4. WvW overhaul: No need to buy HoT to play WvW, even in the new maps. Not having access to Elite Specs hurts, because they are widely accepted as being better than core specs — but that’s another thread.

As for what was actually in HoT at launch… One of the issues raised on these boards was whether what HoT offered justified paying the price. As I recall, a lot of people said they chose not to buy. If someone did buy, they may have included the above features in their personal value-for-money assessment. It’s natural for people to believe they’re being shorted if in fact one of the things that went into the positive column is being removed. It’s also natural for people to lose faith in a company when such things happen, and to express their disappointment.

As to Shatterer and Tyria gliding… Updates have been a part of the game since launch. It’s in the interests of both players and developer that there be regular updates. This keeps people playing and maybe paying. Gliding in Tyria serves Anet as well as players as an advertisement for HoT. As to squad revamp, it can be said that it added functionality that should have been there all along.

All that said, the issues this change draws attention to are disturbing:

• Why does it take so long for ANet to do so many things? In a later post, you mention two months per new L. Weapon. If that’s actually the case, we should have seen 2 more by now, with a 6th due next month. Why does it take them so long to do LS updates, when in LS2 they came out with several chapters across 6-8 weeks with ~3 month hiatuses?
• Why does ANet end up revamping things all the time (NPE, traits, zones, stats, mob armies, now we’re looking at a HoT revamp)? It’s a good thing to be responsive to player complaints, but the need to change so many things might speak to either a failure to judge what is wanted and needed, or a failure to estimate the impact of game design elements on popularity.
• What happens to the relationship between consumer and company when the pattern of behavior by the company leads the consumer to lose faith in the company? Now, maybe this will blow over in a while, or maybe not. In the meantime, it will cost Anet some players. Thing is, they’ve already done a lot of things that cost them players.

TexZero.7910:

Zzzz this argument has no merit when the first one to bring up raids was Anet themselves in this CDI https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/cdi/CDI-Guilds-Raiding/first

This is factually incorrect. There were numerous requests/demands for/discussion of raids by posters long before that CDI and long before ANet said anything about including raids. You’d be better served to focus on Anet’s placing of exclusive skins in dungeons, their original raid substitute, which was first discussed by them back before launch.

I made this statement in one of Vayne’s threads not that long ago.

IndigoSundown.5419:

So, I expect that Vayne will get the content he and doubtless others are after, sooner or later. I also expect that the wait will be too long for some. What I wish I didn’t expect is that some group is going to get thrown under the bus in the process.

Sorry to see my expectations confirmed.

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Thaddeus.4891:

Vayne you are right, but the Elite Spec are pretty close to pay to win if you ask me.

Okay I’ve said this many times and not a single person has been able to answer me.

Can you name ANY MMORPG, any at all, that isn’t pay to win if you count expansions. I ask this because I can’t. P2W was always mean to refer to cash shops, not expansions.

Take WoW as an example. WoW raises the level cap with every expansion. That is you become far more powerful each time an expansion comes out, including in PvP. This has been true in every MMO I’ve played.

Expansions are sold and people are expected to buy them to continue to playing the game, even in a subscription game.

Now in Guild Wars 2, there’s less P2W than any other MMO because they didn’t raise the level cap and you can still compete with some builds in PvP.

P2W was meant to denote games that sold power in the cash shop that you couldn’t get in game. It never covered an expansion to my knowledge.

If it did, even Guild Wars 1 was pay to win.

Actually you have been answered in the past when you made this point. It was also pointed out that the same wiki that you have used to support your definition of other MMO terms disagrees with your limited definition of pay to win.

WoW’s expansions add character levels. A character who advances in power level via an expansion in WoW is moving on to higher level content, perhaps including a higher PvP tier where characters at the old power cap are not expected to compete.

In GW2 buying and taking advantage of the supposed (Ihave not seen analysis that demonstrates that the elite specs are objectively more powerful so I say, “supposed.”) Power increase via the expansion remain at the same character level as, in direct competition with, those who do not. WoW attempts to seperate the old power level from the new while GW2 expects old, underpoered, chaacters to compete with the new power cap.

I am not claiming that HoT is pay to win because I dont know for a fact that the elite specs are more powerful. But, if they are, the expansion becomes something for which one pays real money for an advantage over those, with whom one is in direct competition, who do not.

And I’ve answered that. Since WoW does have PvP servers, if you happen to be on a PvP server, you are facing people who are higher level than you with no chance at all to beat them in open world PvP. Open World PvP is maps devoted to PvP that all levels can enter and fight on. Therefore WoW is pay to win.

The only way you can prove it’s not is if you can tell me that people that are level 80 can’t fight peopel that are level 70 that don’t have the expansion. But you can’t tell me that, because it’s not true. On a PvP server higher level players can beat up on lower level players, even if they haven’t bought the expansion. That’s the definition of pay to win you’re using, so if you’re using WoW you’re factually wrong.

There are other advantages people get, ev3en brought up in this very thread, a few posts above this one. You can go into higher zones, come back and PvP on your level 70 character that’s twinked out with better gear from having the expansion, again pay to win.

Saying people have answered it only works if the answers actually fits. Saying you’ve answered it and ignoring the places where WOW is pay to win (by this definition which I don’t agree with anyway) is pointless.

What about non PvP servers?

You can still PvP in the open world on PvE servers in Wow. It just doesn’t happen as often, and you have to get lucky or creative to create fights. Well, unless they’ve patched that out in the last 6 years.

I’d forgotten all about this. I remember being a newbie and WoW and getting slaughtered by higher level players in a PvE server. I had no idea what was going on. But you can flag yourself off on as a PvE player.

In know in Rift, I used to get pulled into PvP even on PvE servers accidentally. Hellling someone that was flagged for PvP would put you in PvP flagged mode and if you didn’t have better gear you were toast.

Yep. When I played WoW, people would hang around quest areas where PvE players were likely to tag a guard, which flagged them for PvP whether they wanted to or not, or flag themselves for PvP and run into an AoE dropped by someone careless, which also flagged the victim. In Rift, I remember getting flagged as a Chloromancer because some of my attacks healed a flagged friendly.

ChoChoBo.6503:

Donari.5237:

My usual times to go to DS on those days when I do a run or two tend to be in any of the cycles from 1:30 pm eastern to maybe 7:30 pm. Not quite prime time but I don’t recall that I’ve ever had a map be empty or fail the meta in those times.

That’s pretty much NA prime time bud, at least the first half of it. It’s a few hours before the daily reset (players trying to get stuff done before reset logs in) and a few hours after daily reset (players trying to get stuff done as soon as possible once dailies reset). You’re pretty much playing during the first half of NA prime time. Probably why you don’t have the empty map issue.

Prime times are pretty much around and during dinner time in the 4 different zones, NA, EU, AUS/OxC, SEA. There’s not a big gap between the different zones, only about 2 hours. But I play on NA servers (live in the US) but can only really log in during EU prime times, so I don’t see much action on NA servers. Which is sad, for me that is.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

All collections are uncompletable due low amounts of ppl in new maps, except in primetime when I need to feed my children and put ‘m to bed. outside these time windows it’s a turning into a completely useless part of the game.

Well, it seems we’ve identified the problem, at least potentially.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Thaddeus.4891:

Vayne you are right, but the Elite Spec are pretty close to pay to win if you ask me.

Okay I’ve said this many times and not a single person has been able to answer me.

Can you name ANY MMORPG, any at all, that isn’t pay to win if you count expansions. I ask this because I can’t. P2W was always mean to refer to cash shops, not expansions.

Take WoW as an example. WoW raises the level cap with every expansion. That is you become far more powerful each time an expansion comes out, including in PvP. This has been true in every MMO I’ve played.

Expansions are sold and people are expected to buy them to continue to playing the game, even in a subscription game.

Now in Guild Wars 2, there’s less P2W than any other MMO because they didn’t raise the level cap and you can still compete with some builds in PvP.

P2W was meant to denote games that sold power in the cash shop that you couldn’t get in game. It never covered an expansion to my knowledge.

If it did, even Guild Wars 1 was pay to win.

Actually you have been answered in the past when you made this point. It was also pointed out that the same wiki that you have used to support your definition of other MMO terms disagrees with your limited definition of pay to win.

WoW’s expansions add character levels. A character who advances in power level via an expansion in WoW is moving on to higher level content, perhaps including a higher PvP tier where characters at the old power cap are not expected to compete.

In GW2 buying and taking advantage of the supposed (Ihave not seen analysis that demonstrates that the elite specs are objectively more powerful so I say, “supposed.”) Power increase via the expansion remain at the same character level as, in direct competition with, those who do not. WoW attempts to seperate the old power level from the new while GW2 expects old, underpoered, chaacters to compete with the new power cap.

I am not claiming that HoT is pay to win because I dont know for a fact that the elite specs are more powerful. But, if they are, the expansion becomes something for which one pays real money for an advantage over those, with whom one is in direct competition, who do not.

And I’ve answered that. Since WoW does have PvP servers, if you happen to be on a PvP server, you are facing people who are higher level than you with no chance at all to beat them in open world PvP. Open World PvP is maps devoted to PvP that all levels can enter and fight on. Therefore WoW is pay to win.

The only way you can prove it’s not is if you can tell me that people that are level 80 can’t fight peopel that are level 70 that don’t have the expansion. But you can’t tell me that, because it’s not true. On a PvP server higher level players can beat up on lower level players, even if they haven’t bought the expansion. That’s the definition of pay to win you’re using, so if you’re using WoW you’re factually wrong.

There are other advantages people get, ev3en brought up in this very thread, a few posts above this one. You can go into higher zones, come back and PvP on your level 70 character that’s twinked out with better gear from having the expansion, again pay to win.

Saying people have answered it only works if the answers actually fits. Saying you’ve answered it and ignoring the places where WOW is pay to win (by this definition which I don’t agree with anyway) is pointless.

What about non PvP servers?

You can still PvP in the open world on PvE servers in Wow. It just doesn’t happen as often, and you have to get lucky or creative to create fights. Well, unless they’ve patched that out in the last 6 years.

randomguy.1283:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Ropechef.6192:

There are many people that have been posting on this thread and the forums in general. Concerning Raids or difficulty or how its to hard to get mastery points etc.

These are the people that come into my Fine dining Japanese/ Asian Restaurant. Order Chicken tenders with fries, Complain to me about how I don’t have hamburgers, (yes this does happen), Don’t tip the server and go on to write some review on yelp about how the sushi was improperly prepared.

You have reached a point where your opinions mean nothing. Most of us don’t even read them any more. As they contain no information worth noting. And they will remain as such for a very long time.

I’m very much in the corner of raiders as far as things like raid nerfs go. However, a lot of the objections to the raiding community in any game come down to their being opinionated and rude. This post goes a long way to confirming that view. Characterizing people you disagree with as ignorant is not good advertising for your later offer to "help’ these people.

As an entrepreneur, you would know that while certain reviews matter and other reviews don’t, what really matters is sales. That you love your work and aren’t doing it primarily for money is great. However, you do need to be able to keep the doors open. Also, I’d guess you aren’t wholly owned by another company that does care primarily about money. ANet is in the middle (reportedly) of revamping HoT. They would not be doing so if they believed those complaints did not matter. Now, which complaints they’ve listened to is anyone’s guess.

Good luck with your restaurant.

But he’s not wrong, most of them are ignorant, that’s not an insult, not knowing something isn’t a bad thing. He’s not calling them stupid, only ignorant of what raids are, which again, is not an insult.

The comparison was to people who want hamburgers in a sushi place. That’s evoking derision.

Ropechef.6192:

There are many people that have been posting on this thread and the forums in general. Concerning Raids or difficulty or how its to hard to get mastery points etc.

These are the people that come into my Fine dining Japanese/ Asian Restaurant. Order Chicken tenders with fries, Complain to me about how I don’t have hamburgers, (yes this does happen), Don’t tip the server and go on to write some review on yelp about how the sushi was improperly prepared.

You have reached a point where your opinions mean nothing. Most of us don’t even read them any more. As they contain no information worth noting. And they will remain as such for a very long time.

I’m very much in the corner of raiders as far as things like raid nerfs go. However, a lot of the objections to the raiding community in any game come down to their being opinionated and rude. This post goes a long way to confirming that view. Characterizing people you disagree with as ignorant is not good advertising for your later offer to "help’ these people.

As an entrepreneur, you would know that while certain reviews matter and other reviews don’t, what really matters is sales. That you love your work and aren’t doing it primarily for money is great. However, you do need to be able to keep the doors open. Also, I’d guess you aren’t wholly owned by another company that does care primarily about money. ANet is in the middle (reportedly) of revamping HoT. They would not be doing so if they believed those complaints did not matter. Now, which complaints they’ve listened to is anyone’s guess.

Good luck with your restaurant.

There has already been a statement by ANet that they were modifying HoT to be more accessible to casual/solo players. Perhaps we should see what they do. Iirc, the eta on this is the April quarterly patch.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

The only metric I saw was a red post saying that there were about 30% participation rate for raids. Don’t care enough to go digging for it.

30% of what number? All accounts? All active accounts? All accounts that purchased HoT? All accounts that purchased HoT and are active? Such a stat is very ambiguous without context. For instance, 30% of all accounts would be a lot more than even have access to raids, which require HoT purchase. 30% of accounts that bought HoT would be (at a guess) ~100K accounts, which would only be about 7% of the claimed 1.5M monthly account logins pre-HoT.

Sird.4536:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Sird.4536:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Legendaries are better because they come with the guarantee that they’ll always have stats equal to the highest tier of equipment.

Years ago, they said legendaries weren’t more powerful than exotics. Look where we are now.

The highest tier of gear is Legendary and Ascended. Guess what, you can stat swap ascended as well and if you are worried about the runes being removed well hate to say it to you but if you stat swap your legendary armour you will have to get new runes as well.

What does that have to do with anything I said?

You are quoted as saying Legendary come with a guarantee that they be be the best stats in game. Ascended gear also come with that guarantee.

Actually, it was never stated that Asc. would always be the highest tier. The closest to that was (a) Colin “hoped” they would be; and (b) that they would not add a new highest gear tier with HoT.

Since top tier stats were always the same in the original game, and since Asc. was added on primarily as a crafting grind after statements of top stats being gained by L80 pre-launch, it’s understandable that someone might regard the idea that ANet would change things up again as possible. For that matter, they could change their mind on L. items retaining highest stats, but I think that’s less likely than that Asc. would get thrown under the bus.

Vayne.8563:

Runiir.6425:

Actually, even before Orr got nerfed on mob density, getting around was NOT hard and several waypoints even though they became contested, only remained contested for all of 5-15 minutes before becoming usable again often. There are 3 waypoints on every Orr map that could never truly be locked for LONG periods of time; the start of the zone, the zone transfer, and the middle. You could reach anything from those 3 points. Would it really have been such a hardship to imagine an army would build staging grounds they would actually hold without player input? I mean, it is supposed to be the pact, 3 orders coming together and half the military strength of the 5 nations combined, holding a few strategic points without the pact commander should NOT be a hardship.

I don’t find the new zones to be any different than that. I can usually get anywhere in 3 minutes.

Out of curiosity…

• Where are you with regard to the travel masteries?
• How long (how many hours, just at a guess) investment did it take to where you knew your way without having to look at the big map?
• How did that investment in time taken to get familiar with the maps compare to the time needed to for you to get familiar with Orr maps?

Just say no to more power creep.

Well, looks like another non-sale as far as I’m concerned. I’ll complement the artist on (finally) producing something that is not ridiculously ornate/busy, but the butt cape puts me off for females, and the male version looks like someone put quilting on the original iron man suit.

Well, I’ll agree that the discussion of value has been a tangent. However, I’m not positive that those demanding Asc. Armor are thinking it’s necessary to beat the raid. It’s my belief they’re using it — rightly or wrongly — to filter out players who don’t think the way they do. We saw the same thing with Berserker gear in dungeons. It was clearly not necessary to beat the path, but it was insisted on because it was a filter that groups could use.

Obtena.7952:

Ashen.2907:

Obtena.7952:

Avarice.2791:

Obtena.7952:

Avarice.2791:

Cyninja – I mean ascended armor does provide a stat boost however small. Saying it isn’t worth it is a matter of perspective, but mathematically wrong…

Actually if you look at the cost to stats ratio of Exotic and Ascended gear, I think it’s not mathematically wrong at all. In fact, it’s even more evident that Ascended gear is not really worth the cost. It’s a luxury and luxuries are only ‘worth it’ if the cost doesn’t mean much to you.

Sure, but I view 600g +- chests as worth it for the gain in stats as many players do. It’s all perspective and really not up to the player to dictate what groups require. What you are arguing has been discussed above. What I was saying is the gain in stats with always be mathematically beneficial for a group that is progressing.

Yes, but that’s not an objective measure of worth; cost/stats ratio is.

There is no objective measure of worth. Worth is subjective.

To someone with ten million gold a 3% increase in power for the cost of a measly ten thousand gold, a negligible one tenth of one percent of his total wealth, might very well be worth it. Others might consider ten grand for such a minor power increase to be excessive. Yet another millionaire might decide that he did not work his tail off earning such a fortune only to waste it on gear that provides a measly 3% power increase.

Completely subjective.

OK but the ratio of cost to stats increase is itself an objective measure. Don’t get lost in the pedantic arguments of what it’s called, then turn around and claim it’s a subjective measure.

TexZero.7910:

Obtena.7952:

Avarice.2791:

Obtena.7952:

Avarice.2791:

Cyninja – I mean ascended armor does provide a stat boost however small. Saying it isn’t worth it is a matter of perspective, but mathematically wrong…

Actually if you look at the cost to stats ratio of Exotic and Ascended gear, I think it’s not mathematically wrong at all. In fact, it’s even more evident that Ascended gear is not really worth the cost. It’s a luxury and luxuries are only ‘worth it’ if the cost doesn’t mean much to you.

Sure, but I view 600g +- chests as worth it for the gain in stats as many players do. It’s all perspective and really not up to the player to dictate what groups require. What you are arguing has been discussed above. What I was saying is the gain in stats with always be mathematically beneficial for a group that is progressing.

Yes, but that’s not an objective measure of worth; cost/stats ratio is.

Only if you view worth as purely a monetary thing. Which is the point that was being made, is that worth is not strictly a monetary thing.

Sure, but if you’re not just here to argue with me over definitions, then even you can see that cost/stats ratio is an objective measure for armor.

Sure, the ratio is objective. The subjective part is the decision by the individual player as to whether that ratio represents value to them or not.

Since this is a thread about Asc. armor requirements by raid PuG’s, I think we can safely say that the players making those groups consider the investment worthwhile, and those complaining about the requirements don’t.

• It’s my guess that ANet would be quite happy to crank out cosmetic options for gem sales at a faster pace and with more options for customization than outfits offer. Maybe I’m wrong about that, but to my thinking why wouldn’t they want to offer more stuff for people to buy?

• That they don’t suggests that making these skins is relatively time-consuming. There were a fair amount of armors offered in the store in the first year after launch. However, how many of those had been in process already at launch. We don’t know that either. We do know that since, armor has been slow to appear but that outfits come with much greater frequency.

• There was player demand for skins to earn in game. Given that outfits are easier to produce, the decision was made to sell those and make armor for gameplay rewards. If outfits were mix-and-match like armor, they’d be harder to make. In fact, they’d be armor skins. At that point, there would be posts angrily demanding that these items be in-game rewards because ANet “promised.”

I agree that a lot of the skins ANet is providing are way too busy or ornate, including most of the outfits. Personally, I wouldn’t pay two cents for the Balthazar outfit, and Ironclad, while simpler, looks worse (imo) than many of the early heavy sets (like banded).

As to why they can’t be awesome… well, since awesome is subjective, it’s not likely a skin is going to please everyone.

Koceto.6930:

as someone mentioned above, the problem with raids is not about them being in the game but about it seems they are the main focus of the devs… oh wait and the pvp leagues, witch leaves casual players with just one shatterer to enjoy

Raids in the last 6 months:

• Two wings which = 6 boss battles and some trash mobs
• One 3-weight armor set, promised but not yet released

General PvE in the last 6 months:

• 4 maps (more than in the prior two years)
• 4 Map metas, consisting of numerous boss battles, and a large number of events
• Exploration
• Gliding in Magus Falls and now Tyria
• Shatterer revamp
• Masteries
• Adventures
• Legendary Weapon Precursor Crafting
• Multiple 3 tier armor sets and some weapon sets

Raids going forward:

• One more wing, three bosses, in July

General PvE going forward:

• April update (who knows what, but HoT revamps have been mentioned
• July Update: whatever it will be; maybe LS S3 will start then, including access to at least some of the HoT prefix Asc. trinkets.

Please do complain about new content scarcity all you like. However, speaking of focus, your post lacks focus on the true nature of content distribution.

If you were talking WvW on the other hand, that would be a different story. Even there, though, the discrepancy in attention is in comparison to all of PvE, not just raids.

DrEckers.2039:

First of all, I am answering that yes raiding was good for the game since I have not posted in this thread yet.

Next, I would like to dispute the statement “Rewards for Raids are fine as long as they are cosmetic only.” Cosmetic rewards(hereafter Shiny) will not sustain raids. Once a raider has the Shiny or Shinies they want, most of them will quit raiding. We have already seen this with Dungeons and high level fractals. It has already been stated in this thread why developers want content they add to last near indefinitely, so Shinies alone will not sustain Raids.

I would also argue that most of the rewards, including legendary armor, for raids are just Shinies. This has been stated before but to reiterate Legendary Armor’s only advantage over Ascended is the free stat swap. For the vast amount of the player base, that is a worthless perk due to the current Rune/Sigil system. I would argue that the the only portion of the pve player base that has a need, and not having it be a mere convenience, for Stat Swapping is raiders due to it helping protect against new “meta prefixes” being added like Viper’s during HoT. Consequently, legendary armor, while still a Shiny, is a very good Raid reward.

In gear tier games, stat gains don’t sustain raids past the point where the player (or raid guild) is geared up, either. L. Armor by itself will not sustain raids past the point where players complete their sets. If content needs rewards to sustain it beyond the point where beating it becomes routine, new rewards would need to be introduced periodically. Unfortunately, developers rarely do so.

Dungeons in this game were popular long after they were ancient due to gold rewards. The drop in dungeon popularity when those rewards were reduced demonstrates this. Gold worked as a sustainable reward because gold can be used to get a lot of things players want.

As regards L. Armor being a good reward for raids. I don’t have a problem myself with L. Armor in raids. However, Asc. prefixes can be stat switched cheaply, just not on the fly. The runes are an issue, but unless you use an extractor, changing them out on L. Armor costs you the rune just as much as doing so on Asc.

Finally, the desire of professed non-raiders to get L. Armor is a symptom of the fact that Legendary whatevers are the main long term carrot the game offers. If the game offered diverse long-term rewards via diverse content, then everyone would have more to do and there would be less jealousy.

Nokaru.7831:

Can we please stop this charade that Hard does not mean Exclusive. We all know it does.

Are you going to argue that PvP is bad content because it will eventually exclude you from high level play if your skill level cannot compete at top tier? You aren’t entitled to always win just because you purchased this game; you’re going to lose at times. For some reason this is deemed acceptable in PvP but highly offensive and outrageous in PvE. I’ll never understand why people think this is.

Perhaps because there are other players in PvP, with equal entitlement to winning? Mobs don’t complain on forums.

Some players want an adrenaline rush. Some want to decompress (i.e., lose stress) after work. Adrenaline generates the opposite of decompression. The same content is not likely to appeal to both groups. The only real way to see eye to eye with either group is to put aside one’s own perspective about games and try to see what the other side wants.

In an ideal world, the two groups would not ever have to do the same stuff. The problem comes in because this is not an ideal world and the developer cannot constantly pump out stuff to keep everyone busy and happy. So, we see jealousy and demands for access to everything.

reapex.8546:

The megaserver system works best when people don’t taxi. The megaserver, moves people to maps to fill up. Player believes the map isn’t that full, so taxi out to another map using the LFG tool. So in my opinion, the megaserver and lfg tool aren’t broken they are just working against each other. Players are enabling this by using LFG, however I’m still a strong advocate of using a LFG tool to find maps that want to do Events Vs. Hero Points Vs Chest Farms,.

That’s a good point. Taxiing is the work around for being in an unorganized map, but people leaving those maps means the map is less likely to get organized. My luck seems to be that I miss out on taxi more often than not, so I’m often either stuck on a map that isn’t going anywhere, or I just go elsewhere.

Absurdo.8309:

But you’re not looking for raid content. Please, don’t destroy it. You want more sandbox maps, events like the destruction of lions arch and the zephyrites, and bosses like the marionette. But please understand, we haven’t had new fractals or dungeons for over 2 years. For people like me, who enjoy the combat, this content is tantamount.

So ask for what you’re looking for. New maps. World events. But don’t neuter or slow down raids in the process. It’s ok for people to enjoy different content in this game.

I appreciate how genuine this post is. Also, while I am unlikely to play raids, I agree that players who like this type of content ought to get such content periodically.

I believe that there are members in almost every demographic who seem unhappy whenever anything gets added that isn’t their preferred content. Those sub-demographics seem to get larger whenever a content drought in general happens.

For me, the issue also seems to be that ANet — like most if not all MMO companies — just cannot come out with stuff fast enough. I was hoping that after the China release stopped sapping developer time, that ANet would both diversify content offerings and get back to more regular content releases. I’m not sure that quarterly releases are going to fit the bill, especially if the actual playable content offered is the equivalent of a boss revamp.

HoT was indeed a change in emphasis for ANet. Not only were raids added, but the maps were more narrowly focused than the core maps (except DT and SW, perhaps). I expect that the pendulum will swing back, maybe as soon as the HoT revisions hinted at. I expect that those revisions will be yet another case of ANet spending resources to make something, then spending even more to modify it. In other words, I’m in wait-and-see mode while remaining dubious.

So, I expect that Vayne will get the content he and doubtless others are after, sooner or later. I also expect that the wait will be too long for some. What I wish I didn’t expect is that some group is going to get thrown under the bus in the process.

Avarice.2791:

Indigo, what I am saying is it is a matter of perspective depending on what gold is worth to you, and how much time you have.

He is saying ascended armor is not worth it due to the fact that it inconveniences him gold wise. This is his perspective, and mathematically wrong, yet he states it like a fact. “Let’s clear up some misconceptions.”

That’s all I’m saying. This may be obvious to you, but I believe my point is sound where an advantage is an advantage, and those working on progression love advantages.

You have two people asking about the last spot in your raid. Both the same roles. One states he is all ascended with exotic gear. One states he is full ascended. You have no idea who is better, they each have the same experience. Who are you most likely to bring?

Two people show up for a job interview. Both have the same qualifications. One is dressed appropriately, one is dressed inappropriately. Who do you hire?

Cyninja may have worded his statement in a generic fashion (It isn’t worth it.). However, all such statements should be viewed as having the added phrase “to me.” Value judgments are rarely if ever anything other than opinions.

That said, someone who’s made the commitment to get Asc. Armor is more likely to have an optimizing mentality. While having it doesn’t equate to competence, PuG players cannot know the skill of some random person who joins their LFG. They can see if he has Asc. armor, which at least speaks to the possibility that someone has the mindset they’re wanting.

Avarice.2791:

Cyninja – I mean ascended armor does provide a stat boost however small. Saying it isn’t worth it is a matter of perspective, but mathematically wrong…

Saying it isn’t worth it is indeed a matter of perspective, which means it’s not a mathematics statement at all. A math statement would be, “It is the same as Exotic.” which would of course be wrong.

Swagger.1459:

So it looks like we need to upgrade ascended armors to make them more in line with other ascended gear.

ANet talked about making the stat differential between Asc. and Exotic greater before HoT launched. There was a lot of backlash, and they decided not to do so. Just say no to more power creep.

FrizzFreston.5290:

You can mystic forge the major runes and sigils with a 20 or so percent chance to upgrade to a random exotic version. So I don’t know what you’re taking about.

Same for minor to major btw.

This.

Fwiw, the major runes/sigils sell for anything from 1.5 to 2.5 silver. This leads me to think there are people doing the major-superior MF rather frequently.

Obtena.7952:

My problem is that if someone doesn’t agree with either policy position, they just quote a 5 year old statement that may not be relevant to this game as it evolves and make pedantic arguments over it. It’s REALLY easy to turn you head away from that if your Anet.

I stopped quoting that article over Asc. some time ago. I quoted the 5 year old article solely because someone claimed that ANet had advertised the game as allowing players to get anything they wanted by playing a little, or playing any content they prefer. The quote seems to belie that assumption. I think the policy of of L Armor via raids is simply an extension of the philosophy talked about 5 years ago. And I’m not trying to convince ANet of anything.

However, I’ll drop it at this point.

I’m not sure queues would actually solve the problem. The issues I see complained about are the lack of viability in existing maps, and problems with taxi when the map is full. Players are not likely to leave a viable map unless they aren’t there for the meta. Thus, a major issue with a full map is that it’s not going to get emptier until whatever event is running ends.

What a queue would do is guarantee one gets in on one’s “turn” rather than if one happens to click Join In at just the right time. However, if that’s the best that could be done, then so be it, but it doesn’t strike me as that much of a solution.

Unfortunately, I don’t know what a better solution would be. However, I think the experience would be better with the following adjustments.

• Maps shouldn’t close automatically until their current meta cycle is over. This would prevent the issue with maps closing while those on the map are actually attempting to succeed.
• Participation credit should be owned by the name of the map, not by the shard ID. Leaving a map for another copy of the same map should not erase credit.
• Some adjustments to the bottom of the scale for events. If the current iteration requires 50 people for meta completion, then perhaps that should scale down to 10 people if that’s all that are there participating. It used to be possible to complete Orr temples with a few people (in fact, it was more fun to do so). However, after mega-server, it is rare to find such a circumstance. This would at least allow a few people on a low pop map the opportunity to try — at least with the events that don’t require splitting the huge herd into several smaller, but still large, herds.

Obtena.7952:

Funny that people continue to bring up quotes from a man that has nothing to do with GW2 …. got to wonder how strong people’s anti-HoT/Raid gear arguments would be if he never made those quotes, making them completely academic.

The real question here isn’t even if there should be gear exclusive to a raid; it’s whether access to certain gears should be accessible through multiple methods and why … and so far, not any compelling reasons are being presented for why that should happen.

Actually, the tangential debate is about ANet’s policies with regard to stat tiers versus skins being available only in specific content. When those statements were made in 2011, he was an official rep for the company. Thus, referring to those statements has relevance to those policies. To wit, the policy was that top tier stats would be broadly available while some skins would be exclusive. That appears to still be the case.

Sir Mad.1092:

It also shows a lot of people don’t know how taxis work (it’s not hard to find an event map when you do).

Based on my experience, for every time I’ve gotten into a shard, I’ve had 2-3 times where I would spam “Join in” until my patience ran out. I suspect that means that luck has something to do with it, as well as region and chosen playing time.