Guild Wars 2

leasm.1279:

I want to focus mostly on ranged damage and also AoE

I think you rolled the wrong class.

Great changes all around. Great to see Karl continuing to implement feedback from the community (ala the pull flip skill and a trap with a stun break, in particular).

The lack of a 25% MS trait is still pretty appalling, though, as Guardian being the only class without this basic QOL option is fairly appalling. Please integrate this as the first minor trait for the Dragonhunter line or try to fit it into one of the base lines.

Swiftwynd.1685:

brandname.4736:

f4: virtue of ______

virtue: grants 25% movement speed, when active virtues are in play
activate: changes virtues from active to passive or passive to active,

Honestly? I’d be happy with:

New base guardian Virtue:

Virtue of Expedience

Passive: Passively gain 3 seconds of Swiftness every 3 seconds.

Active: Grant Super Speed to yourself and nearby allies for 5 seconds and remove Movement Impairing Effects, 30s Recharge.

Dragonhunter version:

Standard of Expedience:
Passive: Passively Gain 3 seconds of Swiftness every 3 seconds.
Active: Manifest a spiritual banner that allows nearby allies to press F to fall into formation. After activating a second time, rapidly move yourself and any allies in the formation to the ground targeted location up to 2,000 units away, moving at Super Speed. While “Marching in Formation” all allies and yourself are immune to movement impairing conditions and control effects. (aka this could be used in WVW to charge through Wards)

This would give base line guardians some nice mobility, while also providing a very unique group movement support ability that, similar to Portal, is a “opt in” forced movement. An ability like this would be use in raiding as well to rapidly reposition allies to objectives.

Well of course you’d be happy with that. It’s better in absolutely every way than the one you’re responding to.

This is exactly what F2 is for.

Nike.2631:

Ug. I very much lean towards a trait granting “gain 25% movement speed if you have 1 or more signets equipped.” Keeps from stripping out a passive effect someone is using now and lets you choose when one you’re going to carry without locking you in to carrying 5 to get the full effect. Really, only Revenants should have to put up with that kind of anti-diversity to function .

I actually really like this idea, particularly if replacing something already sort of garbage (like an honor minor trait). It would give all the signets a bump in appeal without requiring any major reworks.

I’m not a fan of the ideas regarding swiftness procs (other than the Unscathed Defender one, which is interesting). One of the biggest reasons behind wanting this trait is for a QoL change to going faster out-of-combat, so having it proc off an attack more or less defeats a great majority of the purpose.

A lot of comparing apples and oranges going on the OP.

On top of the utility choices choices being terrible, those trait choices are truly horrific. You didn’t take Altruistic Healing in your Valor/Honor shout build? Good lord. I get that you’re trying to do a hybrid bruiser-type build, but that monstrosity completely fails at both.

“Dragonhunter brings NEW ways to play” sounds suspiciously like a positive way of spinning “Dragonhunter has no synergy with base class”.

Vennyhedgie.5369:

There’s literally 5 threads on this ON THE FIRST PAGE already. Please people how hard is it to check.

Probably because of how absurd the situation is.

You could always roll any other class to get easy access to a 25% move speed passive. The Guardian doesn’t get one because our developer is terrible at balance.

This is how every other ability in the game (as well as basically every RPG I can think of) works with power / condi damage.

ArchonWing.9480:

Definitely.

It should be fairly obvious that being ranged is pretty useless without any degree of mobility. If they were giving this any thought. If…

Given a lot of the decisions that went into this elite specialization so far, that seems like a big if.

Still, Karl has made a lot of great changes since the original iteration and it’s clear he’s listening to what the community wants. This is something everyone wants (except Ghotistyx, apparently, but he’s a well known troll), so I really hope Karl will see the light on how absurd it is that the Dragonhunter is forced to use Runes of the Traveller if they want to be on the same level as basically every other class.

Ezrael.6859:

The Virtues Minor Grandmaster trait should make the Virtues retain their passive effects even after activation.

This idea makes so much sense. Why have I never seen this specific suggestion before?

I agree with changes 2 and 3, but disagree that Longbow 2 needs to be castable while moving. This always seems like a lazy suggestion when there are ways to improve the skill further to makes its root more justified.

While many find the stationary aspect of the Longbow annoying (and believe me, I get it), that seems to be the intended point of differentiation for the Dragonhunter versus say, a Longbow Ranger, which is just a question of design intent and not really something that seems worth debating; it’s good that it’s different, even if not everyone is in love with how they’re doing that.

The issue is that Longbow 2, even with its damage buffs, still isn’t quite there yet. I’ll quote what I already wrote in another thread:

While the low CD is a crucial part of this skill, the reality is that because of the root and how movement heavy the game is, you’re not going to be getting this used on CD a lot of the time (even in PvE) – and this is fine, but it does need to be considered when balancing.

I don’t think removing the root is the right idea. I’m not saying I wouldn’t mind it being castable while moving like many others want, but it would take away from the spec’s unique gameplay feel and there is something to be said for the root adding a bit of satisfaction to landing the hit.

I also don’t think adding more damage is the right answer. It hits pretty hard already, and I don’t think more burst is the solution here.

Instead, I’d like to see the skill apply two stacks of burning. This would greatly open up the Longbow to condition based builds (as 4 has a lengthy cooldown), while adding a bit more oomph to the ability’s DPS and helping provide better synergy with the Zeal line without relying on Supreme Justice and never ever using Virtue of Justice’s active ability.

Elias.3204:

Maybe I’m imagining it, because I can’t find where it would be coming from, but does the Dragonhunter have a 25% movement increase from somewhere? It sure feels like he’s moving faster than my regular guardian.

You start with Runes of the Traveler on your gear in the beta.

Dragonhunter SHOULD have a 25% movespeed though, and it’s absurd that our dev won’t make it available somewhere.

I can’t even begin to address how poorly thought out this thread is. Space being taken up on an imaginary map is literally meaningless. This means nothing in terms of what they can or can’t add in future releases.

Well, other than the content being accidentally nerfed into the ground so far, what we experienced of the overworld seemed basically perfect to me.

Raids were obviously problematic, but it seems like a problem with a metasystem that can almost certainly be resolved before launch, rather than something endemic to raiding itself. It sounds like they may be a bit easier than promised based on the few people who got in, but I guess we’ll see how it goes beyond the first encounter. Let’s call this one 50/50 confidence.

The class balance is pretty atrocious, but this isn’t surprising since the vanilla classes are also atrociously balanced. I, for one, welcome our new Chronomancer and Reaper overlords, and am crossing my fingers that Dragonhunter will see a few more major buffs to its trait line before launch. While I don’t the elite specializations are ready for launch balance wise, I also know that’s not really a realistic reason to delay the expansion, since balance itself is always fluid.

Wow, that build might literally be the worst build I’ve ever seen.

Bezagron.7352:

Isarii.2804:

Instead, I’d like to see the skill apply two stacks of burning. This would greatly open up the Longbow to condition based builds (as 4 has a lengthy cooldown), while adding a bit more oomph to the ability’s DPS and helping provide better synergy with the Zeal line without relying on Supreme Justice and never ever using Virtue of Justice’s active ability.

This is not such a bad idea & I like it maybe slightly reduce True Shots overall direct damage with the additional burning. And I agree with 15 sec on symbol of energy & that it’s impossible to build stacks with longbow’s AA this would greatly improve longbow for condition builds. This also gives True Shot something extra differentiating it from just a ranged Mighty Blow.

I thought about a damage trade-off, but the general consensus is that both the bow and the Dragonhunter are still in need of some minor tune-ups, which I agree with. At this point, I think straight up buffs are still warranted.

Specifically in regards to Longbow #2:

While it is much better, I agree with a lot of the other posters that this still needs a bit more love. While the low CD is a crucial part of this skill, the reality is that because of the root and how movement heavy the game is, you’re not going to be getting this used on CD a lot of the time (even in PvE) – and this is fine, but it does need to be considered when balancing.

I don’t think removing the root is the right idea. I’m not saying I wouldn’t mind it being castable while moving like many others want, but it would take away from the spec’s unique gameplay feel and there is something to be said for the root adding a bit of satisfaction to landing the hit.

I also don’t think adding more damage is the right answer. It hits pretty hard already, and I don’t think more burst is the solution here.

Instead, I’d like to see the skill apply two stacks of burning. This would greatly open up the Longbow to condition based builds (as 4 has a lengthy cooldown), while adding a bit more oomph to the ability’s DPS and helping provide better synergy with the Zeal line without relying on Supreme Justice and never ever using Virtue of Justice’s active ability.

On an unrelated note, it seems that cancelling 2’s cast triggers the entire CD. While that’s not very long, it still seems really unnecessarily punishing for something you’re going to have to do a lot.

Jure Simich.6154:

As previously pointed out, resetting story opens up either “no rewards for story” or “personal story farming eith lvl 80”issues.

No one is going to buy what would probably be a $20 cash shop item to farm personal rewards on a level 80 when they can just use tomes much more effectively.

The mastery has nothing to do with the damage, as far as I can tell – the tooltip implies that’s to see him in stealth, which is irrelevant to the fatal damage ability.

All you have to do for this is to interrupt him when he begins targeting everyone by hitting him with a lot of CCs to get through his break bar. This fight likely won’t be all that difficult once people figure that out.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

YESSS

Colin:
It isnt intentional, we were happy with bwe2 difficulty. We will have to investigate what suddenly made it seem easier – was not the plan to do so.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3nc080/the_reason_why_they_nerfed_bwe3s_open_world/

Great! I’ve updated the OP to include this so the pitchforks can be put away.

GummyBearSummoner.7941:

did anyone else notice that the snipers are no longer in the personal story? are they even in game anymore? icant seem to find them

I managed to find some hidden away in a corner on the NW side of the zone. Their damage has been nerfed significantly. I was excited to finally see them again, but extremely disappointed that they’ve basically been ruined by the nerf.

First impressions:

Longbow is much, much better. Mechanically, I’m pretty satisfied with where it’s at.

1) Puncture Shot – I think this could still use a bit of a tune up – either firing more quickly or hitting slightly harder. I’d prefer firing more quickly.

2) True Shot – Overall feeling pretty good now. I’d still prefer this be a skillshot like Deflecting Shot (this would make lining up pierces a lot more fun and engaging than it is now), but I don’t expect that to happen (and would definitely present some difficulty with the cast time).

3) Deflecting Shot – Slowed projectile speed on this is great. Feels really good now.

4) Symbol of Energy – Really like the changes to this as well.

5) Hunter’s Ward – I think this skill could use a bit of a damage boost, as well as having the barriers activate earlier. The low damage makes this feel a lot less rewarding than a 45 second cooldown merits.

In general, I feel like Dragonhunters can feel justified in using the Longbow in terms of power. In terms of gameplay, I feel like it’s not as engaging or as fun to play as other weapons, but I’m not entirely sure I can vocalize why. Greatsword does a good job of making you feel satisfied after lining up combo fields (say, Purging Flames, Symbol of Wrath, Leap of Faith, Whirling Wrath), while Longbow just feels more like you’re plunking away and hitting things as they come off of cooldown (with the exception of Deflecting Shot). Unfortunately, I think that’s just going to have to be how it is with the weapon.

Traps are still awful.


The traits are better. Zealot’s Aggression alone has done a lot to really make the Dragonhunter line feel worth taking, and has really good synergy with Dulled Senses and Heavy Light (as well as the Virtues line, which is great). That said, basically every trait feels like a mistake in comparison to what these give. This has made the Dragonhunter line worth using, I think, but the others need to be brought up to par so we have some choices. Pure of Sight is still an unamazing trait – the 10% damage increase should be given to Longbow abilities baseline, and replaced with something else.

Not to mention stability.

Proof that ArenaNet hates fun.

CandyHearts.6025:

Etien.4601:

The effort you put in SW justify the farm there. No need for changes at all.

I farmed nonstop for 2 days. I made 40g. (Not my best 2 days lol)

If it got nerfed it would be a dead map. The outcome of what you get there can vary so much. You could get 2 exos from 1000 bags. or 10 exos from 250 bags. It’s luck and hardwork and I see 0 reason to nerf something that isn’t unnaturally rewarding. The reward is just and fine as is.

You either did something horrifically wrong or you aren’t factoring in material drops. I can make 40g in about an hour and a half in the Silverwastes just from the events when using a full liquidation strategy (which I’m totally fine with).

Keep in mind that this isn’t even OP’s post. They’re literally reposting someone else’s comment from one of the top threads in this very forum. I wouldn’t be as annoyed by it if it was just OP’s crappy post – it’s OP crappily resposting someone else’s crappy post as if the original were somehow value adding enough to warrant existing twice.

I’d even settle for 1 out of 2 for threads being either constructive or entertaining. Maybe the next thread can just be making jokes about how crappy Karl is at his job by re-purposing Gordon Ramsay jokes.

Sauncho.8076:

Isarii.2804:

Well that was certainly marginally intelligible, I suppose. That’s not “a point”, it’s an overly dramatic rambling whine, never quite forming into a coherent thought. I can’t imagine why you thought this deserved to be reposted as its own thread in place of something constructive.

Whatever dude….op’s frustration is felt by many. In fact, I would go far as to say you are in the minority.

Don’t put words in my mouth. I’m frustrated just as much as anyone else, but that doesn’t make this post any less trite, poorly written, or absurdly redundant. It brings nothing new to the table and wasn’t even presented in an interesting way.

sephiroth.4217:

I think rewards should be stripped from WvW all together.

Too many players play WvW for the rewards instead of playing the game mode for what it is, and thats open world PvP.

But… there aren’t any rewards…

Well that was certainly marginally intelligible, I suppose. That’s not “a point”, it’s an overly dramatic rambling whine, never quite forming into a coherent thought. I can’t imagine why you thought this deserved to be reposted as its own thread in place of something constructive.

bladex.9502:

I’m sorry but this makes just as much sense as your last post about banning berserker related words from the game

Oh my god, I thought you were joking. This is hilarious.

Eponet.4829:

Isarii.2804:

Sylum.1806:

Also, Daredevil’s getting 3 dodges, Chronomancer’s getting a Braid-like reverse, Druid’s getting a de facto Death Shroud; just about every elite spec is getting a really defining unique profession mechanic. The DH only got physical manifestations of its original 3 virtues.

Actually, that’s a really interesting point. Is Dragonhunter the only elite specialization that actually loses access to its original profession mechanic? Every other class got an addition to their mechanic, not a rework of it.

This makes the lack of an F4 skill with something like the much requested 25% move speed passive increase (don’t even get me started on the Druid 33% move speed trait) even more absurd.

(Though to the titular question, I do agree with others that the Tempest is worse than the Dragonhunter, if only slightly.)

Reaper lost their death shroud in exchange for reaper shroud.

Ah, right! Well, at least we’re not the only ones.

Sylum.1806:

Also, Daredevil’s getting 3 dodges, Chronomancer’s getting a Braid-like reverse, Druid’s getting a de facto Death Shroud; just about every elite spec is getting a really defining unique profession mechanic. The DH only got physical manifestations of its original 3 virtues.

Actually, that’s a really interesting point. Is Dragonhunter the only elite specialization that actually loses access to its original profession mechanic? Every other class got an addition to their mechanic, not a rework of it.

This makes the lack of an F4 skill with something like the much requested 25% move speed passive increase (don’t even get me started on the Druid 33% move speed trait) even more absurd.

(Though to the titular question, I do agree with others that the Tempest is worse than the Dragonhunter, if only slightly.)

Zalladi.4652:

The new pets do sound awesome though, as long as they don’t require the Druid to be slotted in order to be used.

They don’t.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Arnath.2319:

Word of advice, avoid reddit, so many destructive comments from players deliberately trying to derail the discussion.

The range increase on Wings is nice, but Traps still need an urgent redesign.

I think it is time to make them Marks with an optional Grand Master trait that makes them invisible to enemies.

Traps aren’t visible to enemies. It has never been the case that an enemy could see a placed trap. Marks would actually make them visible, and therefore not traps.

I don’t know if we need a tooltip spelling out out or what. If anyone watched the livestream or played against the class, or even played against anything that laid a trap, you’d know you cannot see an enemy trap.

Yes, but Marks aren’t. Did you even read his comment?

So I came in here expecting to side with the OP a bit more than I did, so for the sake of helping you out, I’m going to play the devil’s advocate a bit.

(Two big disclaimers first – while I have RP’d before, I haven’t done so in GW2. Secondly, obviously people being rude over this stuff is not justified, and I’m not trying to do so, but I did see a few red flags in your post and would like to point them out.)

First Point of Feedback

A minute and a half to write a response is an extremely long time, and there is no way in hell I would personally hang around for RP moving at that pace. RP is conversational and collaborative by its nature, and it needs a good, steady flow to be enjoyable to both parties. It’s much more analogous to talking with a friend than writing a novel. It’s of course harder while you’re learning, but try to have some respect for your partner’s time by keeping the flow moving.

Second Point of Feedback

One of the first general rules of RP is that you don’t put your character on a power level that’s way above everyone else. Sure, Divinity’s Reach has a monarch in the lore, but that doesn’t mean you should roleplay that it’s your character. Roleplaying that your character has legendary weapons (which, by my understanding, are one of a kind in the lore) is just as bad. If I saw someone with a Sunrise on trying to RP, this would be a huge red flag that I don’t really want to get involved with that character.

Now of course, it’s kind of hard to know any of this when you’re just trying to break into the RP scene. Your best bet is to join up with [TCRP] and see if anyone is willing to show you the ropes while you learn the things that keep the community running. The site linked earlier (guildwars2roleplayers.com) could also be a great resource.

Gwaihir.1745:

Yes traps still need a major overhaul.
And the other thing needing work is the lb autos track. Thieves already do that. Crippling only on 2 targets is generally useless. If only 1 target is struck should grant a boon to the guard, both effects for 2 or more targets.
Other than that allowing for directional backwards casting is the last remaining.
If those get fixed I will be in full support of playing a viable wvw dragon hunter.

I really would have preferred seeing the ‘magic’ archer getting an auto-attack more similar to the Elementalist Fire Staff’s than just copy pasting the Thief’s shortbow, personally.

This idea has already been posted dozens of times. This post does not deserve its own thread.

Bandit.8279:

Done LS2 on a few different characters. Haven’t had any of these issues.

Ditto. Not sure what OP’s doing wrong, but I don’t think it’s the content.

As it stands, many elite specializations would be much, much better off if we weren’t forced into taking their trait line.

I agree with the objective, of course – each additional elite spec released shouldn’t be a flat addition to the class where players pick and choose the best from each -, but doing this by putting the entire choice into the trait line itself instead of its own UI element seems lazy.

The trait line for elite specializations should be a part of the elite specialization, just like the weapons or the utilities it provides. You can be a Dragonhunter without a bow, and you can be one without traps – why should you be forced into the trait line?

This inherently rules out a lot of interesting builds. I’d love to try a burn-based Dragonhunter, but the trait line is never going to replace Zeal, Radiance, or Virtues. I’d love to try a Bunker Dragonhunter using Valor, Honor, and Virtues with traps, but the idea of giving up any of those lines for the Dragonhunter one is basically laughable. A power based Dragonhunter using Zeal and Virtues is about the only time I can think of where the Dragonhunter line might hold its own, and even then – is it really better than Radiance?

I expect it’s far too late for this to be changed, but forcing the trait lines onto elite specs into making them simply another option absolutely destroys build versatility for these specializations, and this is probably the single largest reason so many people in every class are unhappy with what they’re getting.

While there are several things I’m not in love with here, there is really no reason to run Signet of Courage as your elite. Ever.

Honestly I’d almost settle for a rune set including 25% movement speed that just doesn’t totally suck for DPS.

Ragnarox.9601:

If warrior and thief can have new F2 why guardian can’t have F4 with 25% passive movement skill and active something else?

It’s baffling. Between Longbow and having to kite people into traps, it makes absolutely no sense that Dragonhunter doesn’t have access to a 25% movement speed increase.

This trait would be an excellent replacement for Pure of Sight.

+1, hope this gains traction.

Misguided.5139:

Karl McLain.5604:

Symbol of Energy: Increased missile velocity by 60%. Increased symbol damage by 10%. The initial burning impact now inflicts two stacks of burning, up from one. This skill can now be fired behind you.

I’m so confused. From Aug 26:

Karl McLain.5604:

• Symbol of Energy: Removed the burning on impact (no other symbol has an additional effect, so this felt weird). Increased damage dealt by 10%.

I think it’s probably because we all thought that was a horrible idea. Going to give Karl the benefit of the doubt and assume he picked up on that.

Overall these are some pretty good changes. The biggest thing I think we really still need is an increase in Virtue of Resolve’s range, as it feels almost laughably low in its current iteration. 900 would be much better.

It wouldn’t be a bad trait if the Dragonhunter could more easily maintain range (via a 25% move speed increase) and didn’t have traps you have to place in melee range as its utility skills, but in that context, yeah, it’s a pretty stupid talent.

Nike.2631:

Its really not sinking in that there being a cast time on the Virtues is non-negotiable, is it? We’re not gonna throw a spear mid channel, we’re not gonna sprout wings mid-channel, and we’re not raising a curtain of missile-be-gone mid-channel.

Its pretty obvious they absolutely want that cast time there and they want the new virtues to not synergize with Renewed Focus. So the real bargaining to be done revolves around “are the alternative virtues’ effects good enough to offset the casting time handicap?”

Not with those absurd cooldowns.