Guild Wars 2

Carighan.6758:

Jackums.3496:

How is altering a trait that almost every build uses a better way at handling the issue as opposed to altering the single trait specific to the single build that’s the “problem”?

• Really strong trait
• Already really weak trait

Which would you nerf?

Except this is completely inaccurate. Deceptive Evasion on its own offers almost nothing in the way of damage. DE fuels Debilitating Dissipation, but the latter is the one producing the “excessive” damage and therefore the problem.

If your options are:

1. Nerf Deceptive Evasion, thereby causing a plethora of problems for various other builds that will then need to be extensively altered to make them viable again.
2. Nerf Debilitating Dissipation and solve the single problem in question without affecting any other builds in the process.

There’s no logical reasoning you can come up with that the first option is the best for the health of the profession and its place in PvP right now. You’re using this recent issue with clone-death builds to further your own agenda of overhauling our class. It’s not the time or place. Your proposed solution is counterproductive to what the devs are trying to achieve with this patch, which is toning down the cheese condi clone builds.

Carighan.6758:

I’d rather see a general change to DE. Make it something different. It’s clone-generation is causing way too many issues. I want better clone-generation, more powerful clones, better on-death balance, better shatters… all that is impossible while DE exists.

How is altering a trait that almost every build uses a better way at handling the issue as opposed to altering the single trait specific to the single build that’s the “problem”?

Making changes to DE will have a ripple effect that will cause issues for multiple builds, and there’s no one single change that you can make to Deceptive Evasion that will suit every Mesmer build that relies on DE. They can either be lazy and hit DE and cause more problems in an attempt to solve just a single one, or they can focus on the issue in question, which is Debilitating Dissipation and its associated build.

Your whole “Mesmers are too reliant on DE and that’s a problem” is good and fine, but it’s too ingrained in the profession and its class mechanic at this point. If you want an overhaul of how Mesmers play and their traits, that’s something that should be handled separately, not in the midst of a patch trying to tone down a single cheese build.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Thanks for the feedback guys, there were some good points brought up here. This is why we wanted to discuss these future changes so that we had time to adjust to your feedback.

We’ll be discussing this change more internally. Most likely we will make some adjustments or look at other options such as replacing clones not triggering Debilitating Dissipation so it does not impact mesmer play as much which wasn’t our intent.

Put an internal cooldown on Debilitating Dissipation if it’s the problem.

There’s no need to blanket nerf all of our builds by messing with Deceptive Evasion.

Ross Biddle.2367:

JETWING.2759:

Ross Biddle.2367:

The distinction has already been made, there’s more than just “best mobility”, there’s also best landspeed. Warriors are the undisputed kings of [strike]GW2[/strike] landspeed. The question needs to be asked, has Landspeed been considered for balance?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh8wtucvZJs

This gameplay is outside the pale and warrior exclusive. It needs to be brought back in line with the rest of the game.

Horrible Mesmer in the video

Yeah, the guy has no idea how to chase down a warrior
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tffTmVN-zG0

…

Or Mesmer in general
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8td7XyA1JU

…

And this is an example of a terrible Warrior. No Mesmer, traited or not, is going to catch a good Warrior. Between the high passive healing, stability access, condi cleanse, and mobility offered by the greatsword and other weapons, the Mesmer cannot compete.

No, I don’t think clone death builds are over-powered. It’s the fact that when coupled with Prismatic Understanding, they become extremely cheese and nigh impossible to take down in a 1v1. Either way, nerfing Deceptive Evasion is simply an extremely lazy way to resolve the “issue”, as it’s a blanket nerf to all of our builds, not just this specific one.

I hope they reconsider. The Critical Infusion hit is bad enough.

The more I look into this, the more I don’t like it.

The main issue I have is using DE to spawn clones between yourself and a profession like Thief or Warrior melee bursting you, then activating Diversion to daze and peel them off. That won’t work anymore. Nor will you be able to generate clones around you to body-block against melee attacks, and even ranged projectiles.

More than that, if you have three illusions out, you’re losing all ability to confuse enemies by generating new clones around yourself, forcing you either to shatter your previous illusions unnecessarily, or just stay in the area that they are, essentially leaving yourself open to cleave and AoE spam. There are so many problems created by this change.

The Critical Infusion nerf is bad enough for a profession that relies on dodging to utilize their class mechanic. I really hope they reconsider this DE nerf. It’s honestly just a lazy solution to a single (clone death) build that’s going to negatively affect every other Mesmer build we have. Do something about the traits specific to the build you’re trying to alter. Don’t just blanket nerf everything like you did when you slaughtered confusion in an attempt to tone down Glamour builds in WvW.

This is all without even putting into consideration that Mesmers are not an issue in any game mode right now. They’re utility bots in WvW and PvE, and are barely even on the radar in tPvP. I have no idea where this is even coming from.

BlackDevil.9268:

Memser needs to be less strong in roaming and stronger in raids!

No, thank you. Buff our ability to contribute in large groups, but making us “less strong” for roaming isn’t necessary. You don’t need to nerf something to justify buffing something else. If you don’t like certain roaming specs, don’t play them. You don’t need to have them killed for you to try something more challenging of your own volition.

Victoitor.2917:

What if he’s taking a camp? Do you just let him? Then he will not be chasing you, he actually wants you to leave.

If you have a whole camp of veterans with you, then you should have no trouble killing them in the first place. Even PU builds won’t be able to down you and the NPCs simultaneously.

Victoitor.2917:

And not all PU mesmers are based on you attacking them. PU mesmers are the ones that use prismatic understanding. There are many ways to deal damage and I’ve met many variations out there.

If they’re not running the condi build with torch, then they’re hardly impossible to kill. I run a zerker PU build for WvW roaming and it’s not even nearly as survivable as the full condi specs that take staff and scepter/torch. They don’t need a nerf.

Victoitor.2917:

Please don’t come and post here to just avoid them. This is an issue that must be talked about and I would apreciate if those types of comments were not placed here.

You would appreciate if I didn’t give my opinion because it’s not the same as yours?

Condi PU Mesmers are the ones that are so difficult to take down, not all PU Mesmers, which is why I disagree with the idea of nerfing the trait. Some builds, such as zerker builds, that run PU are still very glassy. They don’t deserve to be hit just because of a single build that’s useless everywhere but WvW roaming.

PU Mesmers are good for WvW roaming and nothing else. They have zero chasing ability and their burst (ie. Illusionary Counter and confusion) depends on you attacking them. Just ignore them. I don’t see much point in balancing around a troll build that’s essentially useless in every aspect of the game other than roaming.

aussieheals.6843:

John Corpening.9847:

So here are some questions for you.

Would you keep rank acquisition the same as it is now?

If not, what would you do to improve rank acquisition?

Thanks again!

John

1) Leave rank
2) Change glory boosters to rank boosters.
3) Remove all pvp rewards from rank progression add them in your new system as intended except for finishers.

This, exactly.

Quip has my favorite aura effect, but in terms of the weapon itself, Twilight is my favorite.

John Corpening.9847:

Would you keep rank acquisition the same as it is now?

If not, what would you do to improve rank acquisition?

I’d keep the rank system in place, but no longer have rewards reliant on ranks (ie. armor/weapons). Basically, it would remain as a way of tracking your personal long-term progression but would no longer be necessary in attaining certain armors and weapons. It would be a sort of personal background feature.

However, having a way of obtaining permanent finishers (ie. phoenix/dragon) is still important, and I’d still keep that tied to rank. I know plenty of people that play PvP (myself included), and have been for a while, in large part due to the long-term goal of attaining those final two finishers. The implication that they are/were being removed was the primary part of this preview that stood out negatively for me. I’ve read an ANet post from another topic saying that finishers aren’t going away, but they will no longer be “earned”. Do not give us limited finishers as a substitute. I’ve invested in nearly 50 ranks with the near sole purpose of attaining a dragon finisher in the future, and there’s no way I’m going to be able to get those last 30 or so ranks before these changes are implemented. Being given the poor substitute that is a limited finisher for all that effort would be a slap in the face. I’ve spent more time on this than I have my legendary.

I have nearly 500,000 glory to spend, so I hope they add something worth buying to PvP before they delete it all. The rewards available right now are terrible.

From the other thread:

Jackums.3496:

Dungeon armor should not be available in PvE except via doing dungeons.

I use Arah armor in PvP and I still don’t think it’s right to allow those with it to carry it over to PvE without actually doing Arah.

Also, does this mean that the dragon finisher isn’t going to be attainable anymore after the changes? It was almost the sole reason I played PvP and grinded out almost 50 ranks.

I initially found dragonite ore to be a bit ridiculous, but then I spent an hour or so just doing the events listed on the Wiki page and realized it’s not that bad.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragonite_Ore

I play a GS+S/F Mesmer in tPvP and I still dislike this map. Huge cheese-fest of CC.

Valandil Dragonhart.2371:

If you’ve prepared properly (and you’ve started to by looking at the screenies) then it should only cost you 40-50g all up going from 400-500. My ele did this with artificer but spent way more than needed due to being very under-prepared, but my ranger maxed 400-500 huntsman with about a quarter of the expenditure. I’ve started out getting weaponsmith done on my warrior, so far at 425 which was done by refining ancient wood and ori —> ingots.

GW2 crafts.net does make things go a bit smoother, however it’s not all that accurate for best use of materials and inscriptions, and even less so if you’re using a crafting booster (highly recommended), which they don’t yet account for. But having maxed 500 with 2 crafts so far, the 3rd is easier and will take less time and even less advice from gw2crafts.net… it’s all about re-discovering recipes, and making stuff while they’re still orange in the list (max experience gain from them).

This was exactly my initial impression. I’ve used gw2crafts a lot in the past, but I knew it wasn’t offering the cheapest method, which is why I made this thread.

I have a stack of crafting boosters, too, yes. I’ll use them, for sure.

Thanks.

So where do the Toxic recipes fit into this? I’ve already got the Torment Sigil and Maintenance Oil recipes from PvP boxes in the past four days.

EDIT: Never mind. Got’cha.

Ayrilana.1396:

Jackums.3496:

Ayrilana.1396:

Cheapest is to discover everything and not repeat any recipes.

That’s very broad. Just discover from 400-500? Refine nothing?

There are websites that tell you exactly what to do which is why I did to go into detail.

I’d appreciate a link to one.

All of the guides I’ve found have been focused on speed as opposed to efficiency, and cost around 200g per profession, which I keep hearing is not necessary.

Stooperdale.3560:

up to 425 is refining and inscriptions
425-450 exotic research
450-470 refining stuff with new recipes (very, very slow)
470-500 exotic research

You might be able to make some cheap sharpening stones or research other recipes but to be honest you shouldn’t be worrying about coin if you’re making ascended. If money is tight then don’t do it yet. It is a big money sink, big time sink, and you’ve got to be willing to throw every type of resource into it to get things done.

Thanks. This is the sort of general layout I was looking for.

I don’t need the absolute cheapest method. If it’s going to take ridiculous amounts of time, I’d rather just spend more. I definitely have the gold (1,200), I’ve just read that spending 200g per profession isn’t necessary unless you want to get to 500 as fast as possible. Anything even up to 100g wouldn’t bother me.

Ayrilana.1396:

Cheapest is to discover everything and not repeat any recipes.

That’s very broad. Just discover from 400-500? Refine nothing?

I’ve yet to start leveling my crafting professions from 400-500, but I’ve been collecting mats whilst getting world completion on an alt. Basically, all of the guides I’ve come across have been about speed rather than optimal use of funds, so they’ve cost around 200g. Yet apparently that’s far more than one needs to spend. I’ve heard the new toxic recipes are useful for leveling the crafting professions to 500.

Anyway, what’s a relatively cheap way to go about leveling each profession to 500?

I’m attaching images of the mats I’ve already gathered to the bottom of this post. Also, I have access to about 1200g, but would prefer to use as little as possible.

Overall, I’m liking these changes, particularly the Thief initiative and Warrior hammer alterations. There are a few things I don’t agree with, though.

Warrior
Healing Signet needs to be toned down, plain and simple. Make it scale better with healing power and decrease the base heal. That way it will reward investment without giving completely cheese sustainability for free with no investment.

Necro
Don’t nerf skills that are not the issue. Dhuumfire and Terror are what make the Necromancer too much. Hitting the staff will just further push people to spec into those types of builds and discourage those that don’t run them.

Ele
I understand the changes to Thief vigor up-time due to the high amounts of built-in mobility S/D Thieves already have access to, but this whole “blanket vigor nerf” thing is unnecessary. Certain classes rely more on evasion than others. The Ele doesn’t have a plethora of teleports and stealth options to fall back on, or the inherently higher health/armor and weapon evades like the Ranger. Leave Renewing Stamina where it is.

Adam.4103:

You clearly want everything served to you on a silver platter.

Grow up.

I have two characters with a full set of ascended trinkets solely attained through daily and monthly achievements. I’m starting on my third and the fact is simply being able to switch them between characters until I can get a permanent set would be extremely convenient, and besides being difficult and elitist, there’s no reason this shouldn’t be an option, especially with ANet’s whole philosophy about playing how we want.

Just going off of the laurels gained by completing daily and monthly achievements, it takes more than three months to amass enough laurels to purchase a full set of ascended trinkets, and this is whilst taking into account Badges of Honor.

I’m aware of other options (fractals, guild missions, etc), but they shouldn’t be relevant. There’s no reason that ascended trinkets should be soul bound other than to be difficult and force more drawn out and tedious play. For people with multiple alts, it’s ridiculous the amount of time you have to put into getting the trinkets, when the problem could be solved simply by allowing us to switch trinkets between alts as we play.

Fire + spikes is about as uncreative as you can get. CoF armour alone is enough considering everyone and their mother is using it.

Tier 1 was has really pulled a 180. SoR in the top spot? I never thought I’d see the day.

Blackgate open.

Bump for NA servers.

How about now? (NA)

Back for more. Anything open right now? (NA)

Any open now? (NA)

Any uncontested? (NA)

+1. I’ve been checking the temple every time I’m on, every 30 or so minutes, for the past few weeks, and it’s been contested every single time.

jwaz.1908:

There’s one additional place you can buy Obsidian Shards outright, which is from the Laurel vendor.

For laurels. Who in their right mind would waste laurels on obsidian shards when karma is so insanely easy to farm, I have no idea.

Engineers are more difficult opponents to deal with as far as confusion is concerned.

sPvP is an entirely different environment, and I don’t find stealth too extreme there.

WvW, however? Ridiculous. And it’s not because WvW players are just “less skilled” than all of those “BAMF sPvP pros”. It’s a whole different dynamic and play-style in WvW, and Thieves can abuse stealth to gain an obvious unfair advantage. Therefore I agree, though only in regard to WvW, and not so much sPvP.

Expect a whole lot of Thieves to come in, many of which will claim to not be Thieves at all, telling you to “l2p,” because you suck and they are demigods, and that’s why you think the profession is OP, because you happened across a really good player, and it has absolutely nothing to do with easy-to-abuse class mechanics (ie. stealth).

Oh, and it’s all culling. Thieves being capable of near-constant stealth is fine.

Nerf it.

/15char

/15charpostlimit

Dueling was the one feature I was disappointed the game didn’t have.

Ranger and Mesmer? No.

Thief? Yes. Though not the damage. Just do something about the constant stealth. It’s not the power that’s a problem, it’s the fact that it’s nigh impossible to evade or counter the burst when the only thing you can do is spam AoE and hope it hits.