Guild Wars 2

I wouldn’t go to trickery just for the ini. If you want to grab some of the traits but then I’d go all the way for sleight of hand and dmg multiplier in gm minor.

Stay in acro if you like evasive gameplay, go to trickery for traits, not just ini.

Slither Shade.4782:

bump… thanks for your support… I tend to underestimate the humanity of the players on this forum

my apologies

Only the legendary halls of Arah await us now. What challenges will we face inside and is this where we will finally meet our ends?

things that have stood out as difficult for us so far:

cof path3 when you must kill five(?) waves of flame legion without wiping to continue

coe Subject Alpha for various reasons we chose to kill it without stacking on paths 2/3… twenty wipes before we mastered this… to bad we wont be reusing our hard won skill

The new reactor fractal final boss fight with the disapearing floor…. probably twenty wipes with only one kid and myself surviving… the other kid died five seconds before… so close

Aetherblade Path… ooze kiting twenty wipes… Slick and Sparky twenty wipes… Clockheart ten wipes… spread over three attempts… on the third attempt of the dungeon we beat everything on first try except Clockheart which took us two tries… so I guess we did master the place in the end

I question how casual the Aetherblade path was. Maybe not casual at all. Coe was not too bad as we could have upped our dps and gotten a fifth to stack Alpha I believe.

Noteable moments:

CM path 3 I ask kid#1 why he didnt shadow refuge kid#2 when he was downed RIGHT beside him

Is this some sorf of lets get together family training thing? Reminds me of my childhood when me and my 2 sisters had to practise building a tent in under 40s. Dad wanted to make sure we get the camping trip right ofc :P

I guess I am the only one who made new characters of same class as my main to actually have low rank chars in wvw – more fun cos people didn’t run away from me when they saw the rank. Oh yeah, this is my official accound bound wxp QQ.

~ proud owner of 4 thieves ~

Skeletor.9360:

Why do I bother…people can’t comprehend….

Oh yes it could be abused…exactly how?
You could die a bunch of times and one shot somebody….
1.) Only if you had a buddy or a 2nd account…only if you could keep outnumbered…
2.) As mentioned by another poster many other buffs are already far bigger than this.

Pretty much all the responses are from people who can’t win without large numbers….
If it were not true the responses would be different.

Might as well rename the game zergfest.

1. Death while outnumbered means it could be easily farmed, I can see people jumping off cliffs near spawn to get their stacks if this was implemented. You didn’t say the outnumbered player would have to be killed by enemy player to get this buff.

2. These buffs, except for the guard stacks which take a while to get, are available to anyone. I don’t see why there should be even more buffs to add to stat differences between players.

Personally I don’t agree any stats should be added to players, it would simply make pvp even more unbalanced. And I don’t like the idea of encouraging players to die to get buffs.

Imo, outnumbered wouldn’t be needed so much if the game difficulty scaled with numbers of players so gates/lords wouldn’t melt in seconds under 1111 spam.

As you can see from my sig, I play on Vabbi and Kaineng, not exactly servers that rofl zerg over others.

As long as you don’t spam #3, you’ll be fine. I currently have 0 in trickery and usually I am out of ini when I switch to bow to get away from zerg. What is your build?

1. Perhaps he used stolen whirling axe, if he was far away from you (otherwise the skill would hit you and reveal him). DPS – If this happened pre-patch and you were light class, that dps would be possible even on non backstab attacks. Post-patch, I haven’t seen a single backstab over 10k, the highest so far was 9.5k, most backstabs now hit me (full zerk, medium class) for 4-7k.That coupled with the high evade frames, I’d say he was hacking.

2. I have no idea, guildie runs with pirate runes for the parrot but I don’t know any that give devourer.

3. Quickness

Luranni.9470:

For smallscale/solo p/d is basically it at the moment. Stealthy ranged condi-spam with a very easy rotation and hardly any risk. It’s boring as hell but there we go.

I tried p/d condi before the patch. While I found the first few hours hilarious due to the high offence and survability, it eventually ended with me salvaging the armour to sell runes 2 days later. I can’t play to be bored.

Ranger class is like a magnet for low skilled players who want a cute pet and pew pew with longbow. Been playing wvw for almost a year and so far I’ve seen only 2 rangers being able to go vs x (not upscaled or complete nubs).

Those that I found hard to fight 1 vs 1 are also very few. All these knew their class and when to switch weapons or go melee. The average ranger stays in longbow all the time, how many times I was right next to a ranger and he was still shooting at with me longbow (seen this even in dungeons).

Even if a ranger from my server follows me when I flip camps, it’s likely gonna be a pain cos most use knockback as soon as it goes off cooldown.

Makes me happy to see a ranger switch to melee when I get close to him cos I know it’s gonna be a fun fight.

I find SE a lot more useful than mug in some situations. Yes, mug is great overall but sometimes removing 1 condi saves a lot more HP than what you get from mug.

Currently leveling 4th thief since from time to time I like to play a lowbie toon and I find thieves the most fun.

Unpredictability, that’s all I need.

Andrew Clear.1750:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Aeolus.3615:

Playing outnumbered do not means tyo loose….. thats the challange!

I always wanted to see the miracle when 10 man zerg can successfully defend the only tower they just flipped on the whole map against two 50 man zergs who are just too lazy to fight each other.

Called, 10 men on a ton of superior siege.

You can’t build siege out of thin air. Did I say the only tower? That means no camp, nothing else than the tower. Even if the whole group had maxed sup mastery, used none of it for rams (just lol) they would have to be lucky to have any sups in the tower when flipped to build enough acs. Hey, it is a pug zerg, some don’t even know what “ac” is or how to pick sups.

SkylightMoon.1980:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Aeolus.3615:

Playing outnumbered do not means tyo loose….. thats the challange!

I always wanted to see the miracle when 10 man zerg can successfully defend the only tower they just flipped on the whole map against two 50 man zergs who are just too lazy to fight each other.

Im pretty sure its impossible to have two 50 man zergs on one team. The most ive legitimately seen is about 70, which to most people looks like 100.

There are 3 servers in each matchup, if two have 50 man zergs, how is this impossible? Perhaps you assume only 1 server would attack but I wrote “fight each other” … honestly, learn to read.

Easiest ppt/karma/loot bags are from attacking the weakest. 50 vs 50? you never know if you win or lose. 50 vs 10? That’s guaranteed and all they need is to cap the tower before the other server gets there.

Aeolus.3615:

Playing outnumbered do not means tyo loose….. thats the challange!

I always wanted to see the miracle when 10 man zerg can successfully defend the only tower they just flipped on the whole map against two 50 man zergs who are just too lazy to fight each other.

Prysin.8542:

Where is that anet blob????

there is what? 300 people working in Arena Net?

Why don’t you all converge on say, underworld EU or Ebay NA and just “Anet blobs” your way to T1 ?

They are already on it, 4 out of 6 anet devs are seen were on FoW, maybe their 4 man zerg transfers to UW to save the local 10 man zerg

Omnitek.3876:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

now people treat thieves like free kills

You using a sword? If yes, you are a free kill in WvW.

I play rifle.

I use S/P and P/P in dungeons, and although pistol dps less than melee, it’s still great dmg. I prefer it to bow, the only thing bow is better for are the extra evades but then when people can’t time their dodges and need bow to evade, the dps is low.

Bunter.3795:

Veckna.9621:

urieldhynne.2743:

Stealth should be removed too. This game has no resources to make a proper stealth mechanic, none of the current devs apparently can solve it.

Spamming invisibility without restriction is the WORST idea ever. EVER. I didn’t see it even in free games.

Hate to burst your bubble, but you can’t spam stealth ALL the time unless you stay in stealth

Everytime a stealthed player drops out of stealth he receives a “revealed” debuff that prevents said player from entering stealth for the duration, granted it’s only about 5 seconds but effectively dismissing the “spamming invisibility without restriction” bit.

Hate to burst your bubble but you only get the revealed debuff is you attack from stealth. You can easily let it end normally, attack and reenter stealth as much as you want. Revealed won’t show in this case. The only true limit to stealth is initiative.

That’s what he meant by “unless you stay in stealth”

And yes pls, remove stealth stomping, give thieves stability.

To the downed state, I quite like the downed state but not that people can rez in combat or that 1 person can rally the whole zerg. Best imo would be if all classes had just hit & heal downed skills. I’d love this, no more downed eles escaping into towers or warrs running across half the map in vengeance.

now people treat thieves like free kills

I play my thief like 90% of my time so I used to think it’s normal to be chased across the whole map by a bunch of enemies. Even lowbies go after me. Realised the above when I noticed I get chased a lot less when playing other classes.

OP, thanks for the post.

Personally, I think part of the hate is the fact that many rangers are bad players who come from pve and expect enemy players to behave like mobs in pve.

Pretty much anytime a ranger is tagging along with me, I get annoyed – most spam lb knockdown as soon as it goes of cooldown. This is really irritating to any melee class. In a zerg, I see commanders call for water on rams and almost all rangers use it everywhere except on rams.

Rangers can be useful but those are few.

vaporized.4612:

Hi!

It’s the Thief you were playing a game of cat and mouse with.
Sorry i suddenly vaporized ( no pun intended ). Had trouble with my connection and eventually disconnected, but when i got back you were nowhere to be found. The last few seconds before i disconnected must’ve been boring :P

If you fancy another game. pm me!

fixed!

4 chests so far, all during one weekend.

Seeing how broke most new players are, we’ll soon see “zerk only, ping gear AND TRAITS” in dungeons.

frogdance.6107:

at this point it feels like i need to redo all my runes and armor, which i can’t do without buying gems….good job Anet, you kitteners. good play. my time is over with the kittening game.

You still can make gold by other means then buying gems. The thing is, if people decide to change builds they can’t craft ascended so easily cos laurels are needed for the recipes.

They can be difficult even for lvl 80 players. Dungeons are also about a good party composition, there are other classes that can handle condi removal a lot better and for others too.

Are you on EU or NA server?

From my experience, there were a lot more S/D thieves in T2 NA than in lower tiers. Especially SoS, before I left (during free transfers) had many S/D thieves.

Lately I noticed a lot more sword thieves in wvw (EU lower tier) but majority of them are S/P.

With 30 in SA, why not? Tons of utility and some people prefer stealthy playstyle. With zerker gear, the dps is okayish.

my first and main has no 2nd name
my other thieves have very non-thievery names as well:

Jayden Ennok
Jaan Toikka
Kolja Torben

Azawrath.7304:

I am currently on HoD and I play mainly anywhere from 3-10PM EST. From what I can tell they have 30 points into SA and some points into CS in order to get the quickness on crit skill.

I asked a fellow thief on HoD and they said it was some new S/D dueling build that a thief on SoS created. I don’t know if it’s true but I haven’t seen a build like it and it is very effective in 1v1s.

prob Amonatory’s 10/0/30/0/30 build? but without the quickness on crit, I mean it’s not as useful to S/D to as it would be to S/P

Gotta love all that high skill play talk.

Especially when I see hammer warrs chasing me like crazy when I play a thief and mostly avoiding me on my warr.

What about having several maps with different themes that would change on reset? Nothing based on server’s performance, just a random selection.

Personally I wouldn’t play on a full water fight based map but having a part of map, maybe a tower/sup camp, in or under water would be fun.

Most likely cos you don’t have shadow reju with this build.

Reikan.2908:

yes yes yes. i dont understand why people wouldnt want a merge.
guest onto a low pop server then onto a high and see where you have more fun.

If they would merge low pop servers, players would move to higher tiers anyway. For easy wins or season rewards.

I like to roam with thieves, mesmers and non-staff eles, that is, if they know how to play their class. Mainly, cos these classes are generally very good at positioning and combat mobility/awareness.

Rangers are the class I don’t want anywhere near me. They are awesome at using their knockback lb skill right when I am about to hit enemy/NPCs. Some mesmers do that too but at least not all mesmers run with gs.

Charrs/norns might feel clunky to play due to their size. I have norn and human thieves, and although I like norns, I prefer how human thieves move.

Seen some good mesmer commanders, yes the survivability is a lot lower but unless you find heavy class fun to play, don’t get commander tag for it.

LordByron.8369:

only DPS attack could be used every 45 seconds

With every post you confirm to me that you are biased towards thief class and you refuse to look at facts objectively. I will not put more time into discusion about it with you. Only thing I can recommend, roll a thief and learn how to play a thief, that is if you want to improve in fighting thieves. I did this everytime a particular class gave me some trouble. To this day, I have 3 thieves, 2 mesmers, 2 guards, 2 eles, 1 warr, 1 engi and 2 low level rangers.

The class would be more fun for me with less stealth but nothing will ever stop stealth/dps/evade QQ against it.

LordByron.8369:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

LordByron.8369:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Some ele specs can burst my thief in under 1s. Staff is not one of them, I don’t even think staff can kill anyone with half a brain in 1 vs 1. When I play ele, 10-14k fire grab, gg for the thief.

fire grab needs you to be burning…

If an ele can kill you in 1 second means you can do the same…what’s the difference?
Stealth gives you the first attack chance…

There is nothing in my post about non-burning target …. well, if that was supposed to be a gentle way to hint that ele can’t burn thief cos he is stealthed. Not my fault most players are like NPCs and just stand there when thief goes invi. I can C&D off a stealthed thief, I am sure others can use their skills too.

And you don’t react after the first attack? lol then you deserve to die xD

Fire grab:
“Damage foes in a cone in front of you. Deal more damage to burning foes. "

Damage Damage: 588 (1.75)
Damage Damage vs. Burning: 941 (2.8)

And your point?

LordByron.8369:

On the raction part
You can t react to a stealth attack beacuse of the same definition of the word reaction:

Reaction:
1.An action or statement in response to a stimulus or other event

What? Are you considering stealth attack to be some sort of omnipotent action that renders you inacapable of pressing buttons on your keyboard? If others can, why can’t you.

LordByron.8369:

Once you have been hit once you are either dead or so low on HP you need to play on the defensive… something that a glass cannon ele can t do.

Why not? Every class has some skills that can be used defensively. For those 11+ months I’ve been playing gw2, I haven’t been 1 shot by anything else than warriors’ burst skills. Yes there is a thief build that allows for huge crits, must be very popular on the servers you face, I haven’t come across it so far.

LordByron.8369:

That is why other games balance stealth putting lot of downsides on it (or some competitive games totally refuse to include stealth in their games for that reason)..
The creative GW2 team instaed put advantages on stealth…. nuff said.

P.S. i don t even play GC ele i play a balanced one…but i know how to kill GC ele…since they can t escape.

Pvp is definitely more fun with less stealth, though I doubt it would help with your dislike towards thief class.

ChapDev.7650:

Thieves are interesting to fight but it really depends on the player I duel on a Deathshroud Power Necro so I can beat an inexperienced thief very quickly which can be a bit dueling but if you find an Experienced thief duelist they can really be a challenge and a hard fought duel.

I would say Thieves are probably the second class I prefer to duel. (Though more than anything that is because everyone is running that Trickery 30 stun trait and I have no Stability otherwise fun!)

Actually it’s daze, not stun, it interrupts and you can’t use skills for its duration. You can still walk.

LordByron.8369:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Some ele specs can burst my thief in under 1s. Staff is not one of them, I don’t even think staff can kill anyone with half a brain in 1 vs 1. When I play ele, 10-14k fire grab, gg for the thief.

fire grab needs you to be burning…

If an ele can kill you in 1 second means you can do the same…what’s the difference?
Stealth gives you the first attack chance…

There is nothing in my post about non-burning target …. well, if that was supposed to be a gentle way to hint that ele can’t burn thief cos he is stealthed. Not my fault most players are like NPCs and just stand there when thief goes invi. I can C&D off a stealthed thief, I am sure others can use their skills too.

And you don’t react after the first attack? lol then you deserve to die xD

<3 for learning thief first instead of qqing on forums like most other people do.

Worth mentioning what tier your experience of NA/EU comes from. I think there is more difference between actual tiers than region, well except for coverage, NA has better overall coverage.

oZii.2864:

Carpboy.7145:

You can always get the best of trickery, CS, and acro with 0/30/0/20/20. Dont have to go a full 30 in either one

I enjoyed this setup also! S/D has always been my favorite thief set not a fan of the 3,3,dodge,3,3, dodge setup though. I do enjoy 30 trick because against anyone not prepared you can get a almost guaranteed kill with sleight of hand you have to be more careful in avoiding attacks but the daze on steal is very powerful imo I feel it is one of the top thief traits now.

Sleight of hand is the main reason I put 30 in trickery. But I guess most feel acro is more useful as interrrupts require some thought into timing rather than spending a lot of time in evasion frames.

DA mug obviously
CS I; III and executioner
Trickery V; VII and XII for interrupts

Gear, well anything goes but to do any decent dmg, you need zerk in it. Mix of zerk/soldier is popular. Most use lyssa runes for condi removal.

There is no sustain from SA so you have to time interrupts well or you are a toast. Spamming sword 3 will kill you.

Why would anyone choose 5% dps heal over 20% extra dmg from executioner? The faster I can kill someone, the higher chances that I survive the encounter.

Instead of dishing out insane dmg for heals, I can just use omnom ghost for 325 lifesteal/s, no matter how hard I crit when it procs, it creates 650HP difference between my and opponent’s HP.

DeWolfe.2174:

Evernessince.8035:

DeWolfe.2174:

Sentry.3691:

The results will look something like this:
1)2.5K steal
2)5.5k c&d
3)8k backstab
[…] a couple auto attacks for 500 each
4)10k Heartseeker
DEAD x_x

The combination of shadow stepping, stealth, high evasion, extremely high spike damage, and no cooldowns due to the initiative system results in a very, very broken class.

Amen! Sometimes, after getting ganked by this utterly non skilled/ op rotation, I’ll take a screen cap of the combat log. I really don’t want to spend the time to look but, I’m certain this rotation is an extremely high percentage of my deaths in WvW. It’s also VERY macro friendly which makes it very bad for the game. This rotation needs a 50% damage reduction. And, I used to say 20% but, as time and power creep continues, I keep upping the nerf.

To the Dev’s, don’t you EVER say you are working towards build diversity when you don’t touch the most spammed rotation in the game.

C&D doesn’t hit for 10k unless you’re almost out of health + glass + cloth. On that note, the above combo can be broken pretty easy. block/dodge c&d. If you’re a necro, put some wells around ya. Mesmers can hide in clones, engies can drop turrets, guards can block/protect. Warriors have enough block/mobility to do what they want. You really must have no idea how thieves work if that combo is giving you issues. There’s a thousand ways to counter it.

All those suggestions are very good, except they take time. Most WvW thieves can burst down a player in under 3 seconds. Even if you were to dodge, blind, block, and whatever else, the thief will just reset the fight. Coming back in a few seconds to wipe you while everything you have is on cd. Take Staff Ele for example, most of the skill animations take longer than it does a thief to burst you down. Kinda broken, no?

I understand no one wants there advantage to be diminished but, we should at least be more honest about it. Especially when my complaints mostly come from WvW. Where power scaling makes thieves way too much to handle for pretty much all builds.

From your posts I can see that it’s your inflexibility to actually try to learn how to fight thieves. No amount of toughness can fix that.

Some ele specs can burst my thief in under 1s. Staff is not one of them, I don’t even think staff can kill anyone with half a brain in 1 vs 1. When I play ele, 10-14k fire grab, gg for the thief.

my 2nd thief

so far so good

-SoS refugee

If pve folks don’t like dueling, why not make it easy and have dueling option available only in OS. It’s not part of pve and it doesn’t affect WvW queues.

What I’d like to see is OS having dueling option so I can fight with people from same server AND the option to fight people from other servers than those in our matchup. Something like to have a list of few OS instances, which would be same for all servers and I could chose which one I want to join.

Probably less people play Eotm now.

Also don’t forget that if servers are pooled based on their matchup colour, naturally red ones have less players.

If you happen to have a friend on a populated map, make a party and you can join him there.

alvinjason.3109:

Moar guardians less thieves

D:

Would be really awesome to be able to exchange badges for tomes of knowledge but not under the current karma train system.

So many people/commanders don’t defend anything because it’s more profitable to let enemies cap and then take it back.

WvW is now pretty much about ignoring enemies and capping empty structures, badges for tomes would just add to this.