Guild Wars 2

Just hoping I won’t log in after the balance patch to see my thieves turned into (current) rangers.

Lifestealer.4910:

While im sure there alot of senseless complaining. There are some complaints that a valid against thieves, for instance steal has little to no counterplay. Top players would agree that this spell is the main reason why thieves continues to push other classes who tries to run dps spec out of meta for pvp. An instant gap closer that has no LOS, does massive damage and also CC’s and poisons + get a stolen ability.

Massive dmg? Do you play with nomad’s gear?

Steal is an instant gap closer that steals from the target. That’s what it is. The other stuff you listed comes from traits. Yes it can be traited to do a lot, compare it to other professions’ mechanics. No class has useless profession mechanic, even when untraited.

1. Dire, you don’t need precision to apply condis and any extra power won’t add much as pistol aa is rather weak. You can get some extra dmg with other stats but you simply gain very little and lose a lot defensive stats.

2. Venom burst can kill someone really fast but you’d give up a lot of survivability.

3. shortbow is usually the best secondary to P/D

4. Imo, engies are thieves’ bane. Personally I don’t have problems with necros, some mesmers can hurt a lot but that’s cos I am very squishy.

5. For torment sig you’d need some precision, I don’t think the extra dmg is worth the loss of survivability.

6. Never used it even when I tried condi build, the cd is just too long to be practical for me.

7. My guildie who uses condi build corners npcs, drops radiation field since his thief is asura and then he spams death blossom. He can clear camps pretty fast.

Eugenides.1274:

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Change the (currently useless) acro XIII grandmaster to give a second of protection instead of stability, and then we can talk about longer revealed time.

While a minor trait for protection when revealed would be all kinds of awesome, I seriously doubt we’d get something that good unless we trait heavily for it :/

I don’t think stealth related traits have any business being in Acrobatics.

They really should make it a Shadow Arts master trait to make people choose between condi removal, blind on stealth, or protection on revealed. They could also just add it on to the master minor trait so we get increased stealth duration and protection when entering or on reveal with a cooldown. Essentially a toned down version of PU. Probably OP though.

Imo, we already have so many traits that make SA necessary to go to. You can chose not to invest any points in SA but the survivability goes down by a lot.

If every class would be given a reveal skill to counter us and with other changes, protection in reveal should be global, ie no traits to get access to this boon. If Anet makes it a trait in SA with no other changes to thief class and just to keep us quiet, this trait would be just like PU and would have the same effect on our class. Every build without it would struggle with survival, with that trait we’d be close to unkillable.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Mainly the Pistol is good for condition builds as was stated above.

That being said the #3 on P/P does have some good burst while hitting allot of times.
I have found that some thieves like to run in pairs either in Spvp or roaming in WvW.

By synching up their unload ability with a very high burst build they can down someone extremely fast before the person has time to react.

This may not work on bunker builds quite as well & it tends to be a glass cannon spec but even if it doesn’t work you can just stealth and run away.

Besides its always funny seeing someone rage & wonder WTF killed them in 2 seconds or less.

Few people called me a backstab spammer while I was spamming Unload :/

Prysin.8542:

Azawrath.7304:

Prysin.8542:

make it 5 seconds all over. Boost damage on stealth attacks by 3% – DONE.

An additional 2 seconds forced out of stealth is enough time for a good player to destroy a thief, no thanks. And if it was going to be 5 seconds I think a bigger damage boost than 3% would need to even it out. 10-15%??

people want thief nerfs and to balance stealth. This would offset it. Seriously though. Unless you burn ini like a madman, you should have enough ini for a blind and 2-3 evades (DD 3 or SD 3 or SB 3). That SHOULD be enough to keep you going “until next stealth”.

3% may be a bit low, i was thinking DD damage (which is the set most affected by this “nerf”) however, i would say 10% is a bit too much. 5%?

I think, longer revealed time and a trait (adept minor?) granting 3-4 seconds of protection upon revealed would offset and make it fair. It would also balance out the “unfairness” of others being able to force you to be revealed (rangers and soon also engineers).

Give me protection in revealed, make me a god.
Tho I’d love this change.

Mayama.1854:

frans.8092:

If everyone gets a 6 second stacking Reveal then thieves will essentially go stealthless and without major changes to the class, stealthless thieves are not viable in Wvw.

So, Mr. Learn-to-adapt, show us a video of how your stealthless thief handles some decent Wvw players.

I cant resist to play devil’s advocate here. Wasn’t the major argument that endlessly resetting thieves that can always escape are fine because the game isnt balanced around WvW? Well now the wind has shifted.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

If they’d hit for only that, if the ranger is zerker, his lb aa crits anywhere from 2.5 to 4k on me and he doesn’t need might for that. Just to compare the numbers, I crit 2-3k on average with a rifle engi and HALF of engi’s dmg with a thief using pistol mainhand (both zerker builds).

You seem to forget that a magnet/prybar + all rifle skill combo of a zerker engi can down almost anything that isnt bunker

I compared dmg on aa, what does that have to do with all wep set combos?

OP, do you make a new thread everytime someone kills you in wvw? You posted on thief forums, I am going to check other classes’ forums to see your heartbreaking story why you ate someone’s burst.

METAShift.2913:

Ehh, warrior is strong but that’s a huge exaggeration, I play warrior and the most common zerk roaming build will evis for about 12k, while still being somewhat hard to kill. Maybe a full glass traited one, but that’s a stretch. Also, evis has much more of a telegraph than backstab and has a CD + adrenaline requirement so if you miss you can’t just try again immediately.

He can start evis and turn around making the telegraph really hard to see. Evis also hits in rather large aoe, he’d have to get immobilised/chilled/crippled for the jump to be short enough so it wouldn’t hit. Tho I agree with that 18k evis, I barely ever get hit by half of that dmg and I am zerker.

Zord.6130:

If you want to improve, start doing 1v1s using ONLY sword, without offhand weapon.

Then he won’t learn to cnd well, which is important even for S/D.

XPGAMER.7324:

RyuDragnier.9476:

XPGAMER.7324:

Just remember friends, SA is terrible, anyone who uses SA is a baddie. Ever. Nope, no good players use SA, its a crutch trait line for unskillful play dont ya know >:

And it doesn’t matter if you spend most of your time with S/D evading attacks and just trolling enemies outside of stealth and rarely enter, you’re still a baddie if you use SA. Why? We don’t make the rules, we enforce them.

They should doccument a list of “rules” so I can play my game according to how others would like me to without being considered cheese.

Why do you even care? Every thief build is considered cheese anyway.

Ario.8964:

@Arikyali. Your post has restored my faith that some people actually understand the point of making a build (for those who don’t know: you make it to give you an advantage over people.) People need to stop hating others for playing smart.

SA certainly gives advantage, that’s pretty much what we (QQers/haters/whaterver you call us) said earlier. So much drama over something we agree on :c

OP, if you think 10k backstab is that high, pray you won’t meet zerker mesmer/warr/ranger or engi. Since ferocity change, I haven’t met a thief that would backstab me for more than 9k. They can but seems like almost no thief runs full zerk build in wvw.

Carpboy.7145:

Neither. SA is a crutch and assassins reward is to weak. I get my sustain from mug and omnom pies

+1

Prysin.8542:

i’d like to point out that “the entire traitline” also houses another set of very powerful traits.
I have been running venomshare for a LONG time, it is OP in small groups. It used to be strong in WvW (when it still bypassed the Righteous Indignation buff), and even today it is strong (just slightly less).

Venoms have great uses, probably one of the strongest support functions a thiekittenittene. Now for PvP, you will lack the armor stats you need to make VS thief efficient (Dire stats). However you can still use settlers with great effect.

From a ranger perspective, Sic’em is pretty decent if you run BM with spiders. However if you run BM with birds or cats, Sic’em will either cancel the pet burst, or the pet burst will cancel sic’em. So to be honest, outside of using it for trolling, it is still not a good utility skill. Just slightly less terrible.
The biggest “issue” for thieves regarding the buffs hinted at for rangers is going to be;
Maul getting 220 range, thus harder to avoid it.
New GS blocking function
Rapid Fire cast time halved (pretty much like rapid fire with quickness is today)
LB minimum and medium damage buffed (rangers will probably hit for around 1.4-1.7k crits in melee range now against glassy thief builds)
Easier access to invuln, stability, damage boosters and might stacks.

Oh ya, IF you fight a ranger with Axe mainhand and a River Drake, DO NO USE THIEVES GUILD. The bounces from that axe will generate 25 stacks of might in an instant on the ranger and pet. That will be your downfall. cuz that drake (even with zero BM points) can easily dish out 6k+ bursts with 25 might stacks. And that drake burst is ranged, and homing and bounces (so guild NPC’s will act as amplifiers)

If they’d hit for only that, if the ranger is zerker, his lb aa crits anywhere from 2.5 to 4k on me and he doesn’t need might for that. Just to compare the numbers, I crit 2-3k on average with a rifle engi and HALF of engi’s dmg with a thief using pistol mainhand (both zerker builds).

On other note, faster rapid fire also means your dodges/evades/blocks/invulnerabilites will be more effective against it.

Quakeman.9378:

Loki.2894:

thanks for the feedback guys.

I will be playing wvw roaming with dd+sb. Probably be either solo/duo/trio mostly solo i would imagine.

think i’ll try full zerk with 2 cavalier accessories+knights ring and see how i like it.

edit: i’ve tried full glass cannon 6 6 2 0 0 and i didn’t like it. Its very good for team fights when i get in burst and get out, but no sustain and no condi cleanse is a nightmare

I would personally never recommend full glass unless you want to scare the fk out of people. The current d/d build (26600) is pretty much the best way to go for general fighting. Full zerk armor is too squishy imo, but it may be different for you.

Unless the player wants to fight heavily outnumbered, full zerk 66200 is okay. It’s pretty good for small fights, I even zerg with it and unless we completely wipe as a whole zerg, I usually live longer than others. SoM + cluster bomb is just amazing.

Did you put fire/air sigils on your weps and strength runes in armour? That build doesn’t hit that hard without these sigils/runes. If that doesn’t help or you already had those in your build, you just need to practise more. The current meta build is easier to play than other sword builds, as it has extra HP, lots of dodges and all the control of trickery line coupled with decent dmg.

I wonder how you managed not to notice this on others before you got your legendary.

Valky gives that extra HP cushion at the start of a a fight but the longer the fight goes on, you’d get a lot more out of your heals with toughness.

Valky is great if you have troubles dealing with condis since conditions ignore amour. It also has power as main stat so your backstabs will be higher than with full cavalier.

If you are used to full valky, you’ll feel really squishy in zerk gear.

Quite amusing to read this after going through some threads on mesmer forums about thieves facerolling 24/7.

OP, just give it more practice and you’ll get better at running away from mesmers.

With all these hours on thief, do you still go through the “bad days” when all the QQ/nerfs etc just makes you rage or you built up some sort of immunity against it?

Dakota.4591:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

I don’t use traps at all. The bug is so rare I doubt I could reproduce it on purpose.

Do you leave the area of the shadow refuge before it fades away? If so, getting revealed when you leave the circle was an intended change made some time back for pvp purposes. If you stay in the full duration, you shouldn’t be getting revealed.

Didn’t leave SR before it faded.

Dice Dragon.4326:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Helly.2597:

vincecontix.1264:

You better off not running a thief as part of serious havock squad. Just stack guard and wars and you good to go.

What? No serious havok squad is ever going to abandon mesmers or thieves. Thieves still have best pressure for enemy casters and other thieves. Just hyperbole on your part there. A simple 6 second reveal isn’t going to make thieves not viable. I understand this is a scary time for you with a nerf incoming, but the fear mongering isn’t going to help. Its an addition of something people have wanted since the game’s release, stealth counterplay.

Revealed is not just stealth counterplay, it counters condi removal so many thieves use and counters D/x dps etc.

Yes but think of this, the game is balanced around team fights as ANET constantly states.(people say they do, im really unsure.) that stated, if I as an engie take utility goggles, im gaining 10 vuln stacks, blind immunity and fury. these all aid me in taking down a theif, but against a warrior? they let me do more damage, thats it, the blind immunity and stealth reveal do nothing. Also, I lose out on a kit in that slot. So we lose alot to take this, and all it lets us do is counter theives.

Slotting different utilities is not such a big problem and sacrificing 1 utility slot when with a group has less impact on your game play than in 1 vs 1. I rarely see rangers use sic em when they are alone, when in a group, they use it. I don’t see why engies wouldn’t change their utilities as needed.

If thieves were given a hard counter for example against engies, something like several seconds of condi immunity and it’d give us stability as well, I’d slot this every single time I’d see an engi. I can slot something else when I face a class with a non-condi/cc build. I’d even risk the possibility of being in combat (so no reslotting) when I’d bump into a different class.

Like I said earlier, my problem with these stealth counters is that it counters so much thieves depend on, especially condi removal which is so important against engies. Sometimes I melt faster than in 6s and that’s with shadow embrace removing some condis and shadow refuge healing. All that’s needed is the iWin elite supply crate every engi uses. Now with 6s of a very limited condi removal, why even bother fighting engies.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

It is not MY problem. The game has included a common goal whether you like it or not. It is built in the game. That you decided to play hockey while ignoring the puck is your choice, but the goal is there nonetheless. I will also add that if you are not playing the puck and the uplevel is, the problem isn’t the uplevel but you. No wonder ANet doesn’t seem to like GvG people… I can well see why by reading a lot of comments.

As for the swimming pool being a good analogy it is. Heck, “I” used/made it. However, like a lot of analogies they have limits that you must respect otherwise it becomes a complete joke.

Using lvl 80 character serves that common goal a lot more than playing with a lowbie. Just saying.

knkasa.2608:

The fact that op is saying she got kicked out from the zerg by being told “stop following our group around with her crap uplevelled character” as opposed to being told politely. This is solely my opinion, but there may be more rude people in wvw and pvp than pve environment. This isn’t about desolation, but wvw in general. I’ve seen a similar case in my server too. What if the developers see this thread (they probably did) and find out they just lost one customer. They’ll probably abandon wvw even more.

If devs see this thread, maybe they could actually fix the reason why people are told not to play upscales in wvw, the amazing rally system which brings huge numbers of players back to life whenever one person dies.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Rope, you’re acting as if any support build is all about themselves. It’s not, it’s about buffing the party, helping out the party, and working with whatever builds they have. You can have numerous support builds that help each other. The only selfish builds I see are the ones dealing around damage, as they don’t help the party at all, they only focus on YOU killing the mob.

In gw2 pve, what sort of support is really needed? Heals? Just dodge, most heals are completely useless when some mobs 1 shot players no matter what HP/armour they have. Other classes are a lot more efficient in providing boons to their party then a thief. Every shortbow thief can give 6 might stacks just by blasting a fire field. He doesn’t even have to sacrifice his utility slots/trait pts to achieve that. Since venoms are used at the beginning of a fight, the heals are not even fully utilised.

It is the full support builds that contribute to party the least. Why? Their support is negligible while they deal very little to no dps, thus prolonging the fight, people tend to make more mistakes in longer term, they miss a dodge. Aoe hurt more since it has more time to take effect.

Unfortunately in gw2 pve, killing the mob asap is the best support for whole party.

You’re obviously a speedrunner, meaning your mind is made up because apparently 4 more minutes in a run equals a lifetime for you. I get you’re a min/maxer when it comes to times in dungeons, but not everybody is, so stop trying to force the ridiculous “zerker or bust” mindset that no thief support build can help in a dungeon when they obviously can.

Well, I am not a speedrunner and I didn’t even say everyone should go “zerk or bust”.

My response was to your post in which you completely shunned dps dealers as the most selfish builds ever. In gw2 this is simply incorrect. Blame Anet for designing pve in such a way that dps is all that’s needed, flaming me for telling you this won’t change it.

Helly.2597:

vincecontix.1264:

You better off not running a thief as part of serious havock squad. Just stack guard and wars and you good to go.

What? No serious havok squad is ever going to abandon mesmers or thieves. Thieves still have best pressure for enemy casters and other thieves. Just hyperbole on your part there. A simple 6 second reveal isn’t going to make thieves not viable. I understand this is a scary time for you with a nerf incoming, but the fear mongering isn’t going to help. Its an addition of something people have wanted since the game’s release, stealth counterplay.

Revealed is not just stealth counterplay, it counters condi removal so many thieves use and counters D/x dps etc.

I don’t use traps at all. The bug is so rare I doubt I could reproduce it on purpose.

unlucky.9285:

every thief I have faced has not had a problem popping it on me from stealth.. I wish they did =|

It’s simple, you are Unlucky :c

Stealth bug

I drop shadow refuge, gain stealth (stealth animation on character and the stealth icon on the buff bar), then suddenly I drop stealth while doing nothing, ie, I didn’t deal any dmg to gain revealed, no engi gunk either. It’s not the stealth animation bug that makes my character visible on my screen after shadowstepping or something, I actually get revealed icon on my buff bar.

This has happened to me during past 2-3 weeks. First in wvw, I just thought I accidentally dealt some dmg somehow so didn’t think it was a bug. But over past 1 week, I played some spvp too and it happened to me there more often than in wvw (I guess cos fights are more available in pvp).

In most occurences I saw no ranger around who could use sic em. But even then, I wouldn’t gain stealth in first place. I am sure I didn’t set off stealth trap since it has animation I’d notice (there are not stealth traps in spvp anyway).

RyuDragnier.9476:

Rope, you’re acting as if any support build is all about themselves. It’s not, it’s about buffing the party, helping out the party, and working with whatever builds they have. You can have numerous support builds that help each other. The only selfish builds I see are the ones dealing around damage, as they don’t help the party at all, they only focus on YOU killing the mob.

In gw2 pve, what sort of support is really needed? Heals? Just dodge, most heals are completely useless when some mobs 1 shot players no matter what HP/armour they have. Other classes are a lot more efficient in providing boons to their party then a thief. Every shortbow thief can give 6 might stacks just by blasting a fire field. He doesn’t even have to sacrifice his utility slots/trait pts to achieve that. Since venoms are used at the beginning of a fight, the heals are not even fully utilised.

It is the full support builds that contribute to party the least. Why? Their support is negligible while they deal very little to no dps, thus prolonging the fight, people tend to make more mistakes in longer term, they miss a dodge. Aoe hurt more since it has more time to take effect.

Unfortunately in gw2 pve, killing the mob asap is the best support for whole party.

Is your build condi or power? And why P/D in pve, unless for the fun factor, there is no reason to play P/D in pve due to no cleave and weak pistol aa.

TheThiefMaster.3812:

Noted , all very good suggestions though i think ill stick to strength runes and power of inertia , the might stack is too good with those two combined which in turn makes you hit like a truck .

2/0/0/6/6 really doesn’t offer much more than this build besides the extra condi clear you get from taking Pain response , to make up for the lack of condi removal I’m running purity and generosity sigils on my bow.

Combined training and SS are both good choices it really comes down to the player’s choice when you are deciding which one to take as all 3 traits ( improvisation included ) give you good options

It’s always good to deal more dmg, however I find improvisation a lot more useful than CT or SS. Most of the time I use blinding powder, shadowstep and SR, that’s all three recharged when improvisation procs. Or another backstab with basi, it’s hilarious. The rng of that trait is not great but it’s one of those things you notice when it procs rather than thinking “I’d be alive now if it proc’d”.

Never thought about using this trait untill I forgot to switch back my build from dungeon run. It proc’d 4 times in a row and I’ve been using it ever since.

In short thief’s role is dps, stealth skips and blinds.

S/P is perfect for pve, you can blind mobs and if your group stacks on you, it greatly reduces dmg taken from mobs (except dredge and champs). Throw down black powder and use sword autoattack, the full aa chain deals tons of dmg. On boss fights, either use D/D if it’s possible to backstab it or spam pistol whip, don’t bother with blinds on boss fights. If you get a group with somewhat competent ele, blast her fire fields with your short bow (skill 2). Eles usually stack might just before the fight.

I recommend doing the explorable mode when you reach lvl 80.

Thieves don’t provide the usual group utility such as boons etc. We are rather a more selfish role. When you get your traits, use sundering strikes trait, it puts vulnerability on mobs = boosts the dmg the mob takes from the whole group.

Chill is very strong tho, the icd is 1s too so you could potentially perma chill your oponent.

The might alone is meh, the chill could be good but it is applied only during night. Come Anet, who is gonna change his build based on day/night cycle -_-

This food should be split into two separate foods with some other stats added, one with one might effect, other with chill any time of the day OR simply have the effect of both might and chill together.

RuneCrimson.7380:

It is kindfa a joke….I have been playing WvW just to get the map completion and it turned into me just following the zerg cause all the skill points and Vistas are in Enemy territory that never flips over to where I can get them. I have been playing for weeks for things to flip so I cann get them and we have been the same color everytime. Since I have been playing it has been somewhat fun but it is frustrating to try and get things when there is no way to get them. plus some of the skill points are no where near where Commanders and the zerg run so never get to get them and as was pointed out…zergs will not help me go get it. So it is kinda a joke to even have it in wvw. What it looks like is that it was put there to try and drag pvers into wvw to try it….well with the frustration of it some of us might leave wvw just cause of it.

If you get frustrated by that then maybe you should play farmville instead. Come on, those skill points zerg never goes to are usually guarded by few mobs. You don’t need an army to get them.

The worst thing that can happen is that you bump into enemy zerg or some pesky thief on your way there.

Since anet’s “fix”, even shadowstep will teleport you back under the hammer if you manage to use it near any tiny bump in terrain.

Zerk, in any semi-decent dungeon party, you’ll have good uptime of fury anyway. For open world pve, zerk still offers more dps than sin.

Cam Ron.4170:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Youkay.5294:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

As long as there is condi duration food and dire, condi P/D will be considered ez mode by some players including me. If I bump into you in wvw and see +40% condi food, do you think I care about you having a different build than the average or the fact you have carrion instead of dire? No. I will most likely not even bother fighting you.

Going up against a build that you are not prepared to fight can lead to frustration, I know. But the solution to it is to equip accordingly.

I always pay attention to have sufficient condi cleanses with any build that I run. Increased condi duration is no problem in that case. Maybe you should try that one out yourself?

If increased condi duration is no problem for people with condi cleanses, why do you use the food then? Every single condi thief uses same food just as they use dire because with these two, P/D is faceroll to play.

So far I’ve seen only one thief on these forums actually say he plays condi P/D cos he would use anything that gives him the most advantage. Everyone else wraps the reasoning into who much the enjoy the playstyle and how fun it is. It’s simple, they want easy wins so they play condi P/D. If direct dmg was buffed today, all these players would run backstab builds tomorrow.

I will not put my time in the game to entertain anyone who chooses condi P/D.

I use P/D because its most effective for me, because I am not pro or super-skilled. I Make mistakes so vitality+toughness is great on me and soldiers gear blows on thieves. That being said, if you’re very skilled- backstab thieves are superior to p/d condi thieves in most situations. 95% of thieves, including myself aren’t good enough to make BS work better than a Dire build.

So I agree that P/D is easier, but if you’re really good Backstab has more potential. Being that you can backstab for 7k and spend most fo your time in stealth with 8 teleports, if you’re having trouble verses p/d as a BS thief, its a L2P issue (I have same issue, backstab is just harder to play).

Tl;dr: P/D isn’t stronger than backstab, it’s easier (dire +ranged). BS builds have more potential, but require a lot of skill to the point where it might seem week. I dont understand how other thieves complain about P/D- as thief is a bullkitten class in general. From the perspective of other classes permastealth BS thieves are just as bullkitten

Very skilled player is always superior to a scrub, no matter the weaponset. Note that I wrote condi P/D with condi duration food and dire. I don’t have any problem with P/D on its own. The QQ hell would fall on these forums if power builds would be given food equivalent to 8 trait points.

Youkay.5294:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

As long as there is condi duration food and dire, condi P/D will be considered ez mode by some players including me. If I bump into you in wvw and see +40% condi food, do you think I care about you having a different build than the average or the fact you have carrion instead of dire? No. I will most likely not even bother fighting you.

Going up against a build that you are not prepared to fight can lead to frustration, I know. But the solution to it is to equip accordingly.

I always pay attention to have sufficient condi cleanses with any build that I run. Increased condi duration is no problem in that case. Maybe you should try that one out yourself?

If increased condi duration is no problem for people with condi cleanses, why do you use the food then? Every single condi thief uses same food just as they use dire because with these two, P/D is faceroll to play.

So far I’ve seen only one thief on these forums actually say he plays condi P/D cos he would use anything that gives him the most advantage. Everyone else wraps the reasoning into who much the enjoy the playstyle and how fun it is. It’s simple, they want easy wins so they play condi P/D. If direct dmg was buffed today, all these players would run backstab builds tomorrow.

I will not put my time in the game to entertain anyone who chooses condi P/D.

As long as there is condi duration food and dire, condi P/D will be considered ez mode by some players including me. If I bump into you in wvw and see +40% condi food, do you think I care about you having a different build than the average or the fact you have carrion instead of dire? No. I will most likely not even bother fighting you.

Kapina.9012:

WvW isn’t that important to me. Don’t need wvw completion or anything like that. I do hop on sometimes to help there, but being on low population wvw server, the zergs we meet are usually bigger than ours are. And when the same people keep getting beaten over and over, they’ll start to lose interest.

Just threw my 2 cents at the discussion and trying to make people understand the other side (low population) of the situation too.

All servers in T9 are low pop. UW has been the underdog for a while but recently the numbers are somewhat equal, you can see that from ppt during prime hours. I think map completition is easier in T9, a very small party can capture anything during night hours.

The wvw map completition requirement brings new people to wvw, most just get the completition but some stay. They would probably never go to wvw otherwise.

Or party up, be careful not to deal dmg to your friend and troll people from own servers :>

There would be no point playing a dps build in a game with never dying bunkers who can still hit hard cos of proccing sigils and stacked might.

I use D/P when levelling a new thief, the number of people that stand in black powder is astounding. The last one, double melee ranger didn’t figure out moving out of it for almost 2mins, that’s how long it took for my lvl 7 thief to dps him to death.

On the S/D & D/P comparison, very often when some of the sword wielding pros from pvp come to wvw and get wrecked, they come back with D/P.

To be a true thief, one has to learn all weapon sets. So stop trying to figure what wep set beats everyone, get out there and try them all, learn the combos and find what wep set suits you. That way you’ll know strengths and weaknesses of each set, and it will be much easier to adapt to different situations.

Good luck.

@ lavra

That build is nice for P/P but I’d change your secondary weapon set. Ranged weps require target for aa so when a thief stealths/is downed in stealth, you are left with cluster bomb/poison. P/P is already initiative hungry and cluster bomb spam will just deplete your resources even more.

Heals – I personally think withdraw beats SoM in pvp. While the potentional heals with SoM can be really high, you get healed only when hitting enemy and that’s sometimes just not possible. I found SoM useful only in a zerg, anywhere else I slot withdraw.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

- Most of all. Learn to remain calm. Unlike other professions, if you panic, the cooldown saves you from activating the same weapon skill more than once…with Thief, you can activate any weapon skill multiple times as long as you have Initiatives. If you panic, you’ll end up wasting resources.

That’s all I have for you…everything else I’m sure you’ll learn along the way.

So true. I used to panic a lot as a nub thief in wvw so when I started using sword, I would just teleport back and forth with infiltrator strike. The return didn’t have casting time back then so I burned all my ini really fast >.<

Looks like people have multiple thieves, each for different set. I was planning to do the same but every time I tried a different gear/build, I went back to the regular one. So I made zerk asc set and move it around depending on which thief I feel like playing atm.

Johje Holan.4607:

In WvW I’m on top of the world. Fearless. Untouchable.

I am like a king sitting on his throne. Knowing at any time I can pass a death sentence on someone.

Or Zeus overseeing the mortals from Mt. Olympus. Knowing at any time I can send a lightning bold from on high and smite their pitiful mortal selves.

Or Thor riding his chariot. Knowing at any time I can bring the hammer down on some poor souls ranger’s head.

I am as the almighty. Knowing at any time I can strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger.

I am Thief.

Couldn’t help it, had to fix that typo. Otherwise I like your post, very original.

Overall thieves are doing good.

In pve, we are good too but the class requires more active gameplay and thus is not so friendly for new players who die a lot. We also don’t bring “traditional” support to the group and people like swimming in boons. For these reasons, thieves are sometimes not welcome in dungeons, I got booted on log in a few times.

WvW

We have the best disengage ability due to stealth and teleports. Great for roaming.

Sure we can 1 vs X due to stealth, but that’s only when there is a disparity between thief and enemy skills and/or when the thief runs 6pts in SA.

The thing I most don’t like about our class is the attitude I get from players of other classes. So many people think we are broken, faceroll class, this is so engraved in them that they don’t see anything else about thieves.

We can have really high dps if built for it, in exchange all the survivability is active and often 1 mistake equals to death and this is something other players ignore. There are builds for other classes that can hit me for 75-90% of my backstab while they are tanky.

A bit higher dmg on some skills with zero passive defences is the price we pay for stealth, which I use more and more often these days since stealth and run is all I can do against some builds.

pls nerf every aspect of thief cos their burst is high when sigils proc + might with strenght runes.

totally makes sense