Guild Wars 2

7 Mirrors ran with PU in a lot of his builds, and he seemed to kill people pretty effortlessly. I’ve run with this trait a lot. With 30 in chaos, and centaur runes, you have 100% uptime of swiftness. And this trait buff just makes things even better. I usually run

20/20/30

But sometimes I run

10/30/30

I usually run in full zerker armor, with all celestial jewels. My Izerker wakittenting people for awesome amounts last night. And this little bump my survivability made me smile all night.

With cleansing configuration. You remove conditions, stealth, gain protection, and heal yourself. Its just plain awesome.

TooBz.3065:

vapour.2916:

This is going to be nice seeing all of the fair weather Mesmers loudly taking their bandwagon boat home.

This is a game played for recreation in people’s free time. It is not a job, it is not a religion, heck, it’s not even like rooting for your local sports franchise, as games are mostly non-territorial. We are all fair weather gamers. If a better game came along or if this one isn’t fun anymore you quit.

If the game isn’t fun and you don’t quit, you may have a problem.

This may be the best thing ever written on any GW2 forum, ever.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Jester.1236:

No one knows how powerful the interrupt builds are going to be yet. I doubt in the past few hours anyone has completely geared there character and learned the rotation. The buff to PU was pretty huge. Making a lot of stealth builds even better. The same thing with Torment, you all have been using it for a couple hours tops. Maybe try it for a week before you start condemning it.

They did add diversity. Most of the people complaining are angry because of one trait move. And that’s it.

When I saw the leaked notes, I decided to test interrupts. The problem is that it’s nearly impossible to interrupt a skill with less than .75 second cast time. You can still use a lockdown build or w/e, bu the problem is that the majority of the time you will not actually be getting interrupts.

You tested the build. Without any of the new abilities. Pyro you are one of the best build creators on this forum. I find it hard to believe someone as creative as you cannot work with these buffs, and work around one change.

No one knows how powerful the interrupt builds are going to be yet. I doubt in the past few hours anyone has completely geared there character and learned the rotation. The buff to PU was pretty huge. Making a lot of stealth builds even better. The same thing with Torment, you all have been using it for a couple hours tops. Maybe try it for a week before you start condemning it.

They did add diversity. Most of the people complaining are angry because of one trait move. And that’s it.

Izerker got fixed, bouncing got fixed. These were two HUGE issues from Mesmers for the last months. The thread on I zerker is somewhere around 170 pages long. And now thakittens fixed the general Mesmer consensus is “whatever you should have fixed it anyways” Most people said “Just fix the bugs, before anything else”. Well they fixed the bugs.

People are over reacting as usual. In a day or two you will all be back playing your mesmers, trying the new builds. And there are new variety in builds. They buffed interrupts, and I know in the 2 hours since the patch no one has mastered this. But maybe give it a day or two to figure it out? Prismatic Understanding was buffed. I see a lot of possibilities with the new traits. If all you guys want to do is hammer, everything is going to look like a nail.

That whole paragraph could be summarized by saying . We are mad you moved our 5 point trait. Oh and we don’t like what you did with blurred frenzy. These changes don’t ruin anything. The sky is not falling.

I probably redo my Mesmer spec weekly :p Sometimes daily! I was Mantras for the longest time. And honestly I do miss it sometimes. But for me there are a few things I just love on the Mesmer.

I love the torch, because I love the stealth.
I love 100% Swiftness uptime
I love to hit hard with single target dps, but I want to be able to function in AoE fights as well. And while I don’t love great sword, this seems like the best weapon for zerging.

So I have been fooling with a phantasm build. Using Pistol and Sceptre in one weapon set. And Sceptre focus in the other. It looked something like this.

http://tinyurl.com/ns34w24

But I got to thinking…I had almost 0 AoE with this spec. And I know some people love the focus, but I just can’t get into it. So I went for a spec that highlighted the things I like.

http://tinyurl.com/o69kqdu

What I’m thinking is. While I lose the +15% phantasm damage, from the inspiration line. I pick up about 200 power, which I think will offset this. I’m not sure if the math is perfect, but I didn’t seem to lose much in my testing.

My only problem is I started really liking the pistol. But without great sword, I only have single target dps. I also sometimes feel like the Mesmer can do so many amazing things. And maybe this build is to simple. On the other hand it’s very effective for me, so maybe simple isn’t all that bad.

Any thoughts on this?

People tend to forget that other classes have to give up something for speed as well.

Warriors HAVE to sacrifice an off hand weapon (warhorn) like a Mesmer (focus)
And have to trait that warhorn for reduced cool down. And spec into boon duration. Or they can give up there eilite utility spot, and use the Warhorn. Or go the banner option, which again takes up utility space, and elite utility space.

Thieves, Necros, and Rangers have to give up a utility spot. I have a thief the speed is nice, but I would rather have that third utility.

Gaurdian has to spec in boon duration (which is actually in a lot of Gaurdian builds) and shouts. Or are required to use Staff. And if they are not specced for staff, they do not get 100% uptime.

Engineer really has it nice. They put 10 points in kits and get speedy kits. You have to push a button every five seconds, but the ability really is nice.

Mesmer, like the warrior can achieve speed with an off hand, and spec . Or by going the route of the Centaur runes. To me we are in the exact same boat with Warriors there other option being to use there elite sigil, or banner for speed.

Since this topic comes up every 3 days, it would be nice to get a sticky post on it. So there wouldn’t be a 20 page thread every couple days. But that’s just my opinion.

If the same Matras are on your bar when you go into the water, I don’t think you have to recharge them?

I actually tried going this route when I first decided to go healing bombs. The big issue I had was that the build has a lot of Synergy with power. Not only does toughness become power with the trees you have, but healing power can as well. Making Clerics stats add up quite nicely. I also chose Grenadier as my grandmaster trait. I use grenades in fractals and WvW, and for me Grenades, and Bombs, are excellent power weapons. I basically WvW 80% of my time, so my opinion may be biased toward that.

With 0 in fire arms your losing a ton of condition damage. While putting points in explosions also naturally ups your power.

This is what I settled on. Using the pistol I sometimes wish I had condition damage. But really for me power just wins out.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcMQJAqel0p6ZHxyuFG+IyoCdWoHDmEqWfeIXpFEC-jkxAotASNAIHgZxioxqmJiqVNYA-w

Thanks a lot Sabull that helped me a lot the way you broke it down! And I never said I didn’t sue elixir gun :P I like Medkit as my heal tho. The little drops heal me for a ton, and really to me add to the feel of the kit. I’m usually pushing into large groups dropping bombs as I go, and dropping my heal pouches works well with that.

I guess what I was looking for was, a way to determine something like this.

I have 1300 Heal power and I Heal for 294
How much more would I heal for with certain buffs, which I think I might have done correctly…and how much less I would heal for without my current set up.

As for not running healing bombs, or not stacking healing gear. Neither of these two is an option. I love the build, and I’m very happy with the gear. I’m simply trying to understand it all a bit better. Some of the answers above i’ll have to read again when i’m fully awake to understand.

I really appreciate everyone taking the time to answer, and try to help me with the math.

It sounds like right now your using, a set off hand, a set food buff and a set, set of runes. With Centaur you can get by without the off hand, and without the food buff depending on your spec.

As a Further note, my bomb heal, actually heals me with no modifiers for 293 in a lvl 80 zone. Ill be placing some elixir gun stats in this space as well.

The Healing bomb formula is 145 + (0.1*Healing Power)

So currently unbuffed I have 1303 healing power. This is with 0 stacks from Sigil of life. 0 Food and 0 Healing runes.

I could add Healing runes which would give me + 165 healing power. Or 1468 Healing power.

I could also add Healing food which would be somewhere around 70 + healing power. Which would put me at 1538 Healing power.

With 25 stacks I would sit at 1788 Healing power. So lets see what that would yield

1303 =130.3 +145 = 275
1468 =146.8 +145 =291
1538 =153.8 +145 = 298
1788 =178.8 +145 = 323

I’m definitely not great at math, but I’m thinking 275/1303 should get me a heal per healing power number, at level 80. Which I’m getting as 4.8.

But and here is where I can use some help 1788/323 =5.5. Now super sure why that number went up. I get the feeling I am doing some thing wrong. So any help would be appreciated.

I play Gs, and I always have. I have yet to see a significant drop in my performance in WvW. I’ve never struggled more or less, while everyone complains about these bugs non stop. Yes every once in awhile I’ll hit for a small amount, and when that happens instead of writing a journal about it, I press the button again, and hit for the regular amount. I still see plenty of Mesmers out there, and plenty of them using the Great sword.

I would love to have any bug we have get fixed, but It seems to me the most of you spend your time hitting targeting dummies and not other people. Then rushing here to talk about how much Anet is terrible, and ask for the mysterious “bad pic”. If this is a huge problem I am somehow unaffected. People are still dying as fast as they always have, and I somehow doubt my mediocre play had somehow improved so much that I’m overcoming this insurmountable obstacle. If I ever did notice this consistently, and I thought the class was broken, I would play something else. But I don’t and from what I see in WvW most Mesmers aren’t.

I’ve never understood the forums mentality. If your doing something as means of enjoyment and relaxation, and your miserable and hate everything about it, from the class you play to the developers that make the game, then why would you still play it? I always see Mesmers say " I love Mesmer, except this list of 1450 reasons I hate it" It makes no sense. Maybe it’s just me. I play to relax and have fun.

Seras.5702:

Seems portal’s strongest place is in WvW. Might have to take up WvW.

One does not simply" Take up WvW".

This is what i’m currently running.

http://tinyurl.com/cf7x7bb

I see a lot of builds that are extremely different. usually like 0/0/20/30/30. I am kind of torn on switching. I feel like with those builds I will lose a great deal of crit. For activating sigils. But maybe crit isn’t really needed in a condition build? Since it doesn’t affect the damage?

Also I like being able to steal to a target a 1200 range, but it seems like I’m wasting my steal since it gives me back 3 initiative.

I really enjoy the Deathblossom in zergs, and just in general. And I think I’m missing something by not speccing in the bottom trees. Any advice/help would be appreciated.

This build is WvW
I probably roam 50% of the time and zerg it up the rest.

Thank you

Iv’e personally seen this in action, and Handin does some amazing things with this Spec.

You guys will still be able to tag zergs with your confusion. Sure you wont do as much damage,but really you guys werent killing anyone with confusion anyways. So fear not, your role of tagging everyone in your pink bubbles remains safe!!

For those of you who are seeing the light, come to the Mantra side!!

Please don’t let any Mesmers see this thread! They would kill for something like speedy kits :P

A guild mate of mine, said in guild chat today. “Whats up with all the Engineers latley?” I have to admit he’s right! I’m seeing so many more engineers. More then any time then i’ve ever seen. In Spvp and WvW i’m seeing engineers everywhere. So new players, pay no mind to the doom and gloom on the boards sometimes. The age of Engineer is upon us People are playing them because they are affective, and fun! So welcome all you new Engineers!

I could really use some advice on Runes in WvW. currently i’m running a healing bomb build and i really love it. I have runes in now, that gave me 125 healing power. Ive been running the negative condition duration food, and i definitly like it. So i was thinking about going with meladru runes. I’m wondering if losing the healing, would affect me that much, since i’m gaining toughness? Any advice will be welcome

I’m running a healing bomb build. I also have a Gaurdian, with AH build. Both of them in full exotics, tho my engineer is in pure healing gear, and my Gaurdian is not. My healing on my engineer is far greater then my Gaurdian, but i think i could probably top that if my Gaurdian was in full Clerics as well. But! I don’t think my Gaurdian can do anywhere near the damage my Engineer can with the healing bomb build. I do fantastic damage, and great healing. Add in all the blast finishers i can do with the bombs, and the fact that there damage is aoe, i feel the clerics gear, and healing power in general is very worth it on the Engineer.

My Regen from EG is pretty awesome, which is affected by healing power. My healing Turrett, which im experimenting with more and more, is affected by healing power. My Super Elixir is affected by healing power, and its a very good aoe heal. I think the only way i could duplicate this much healing on the gaurdian would be to go staff, and full shouts. And even then i dont know if i would heal for as much. And if i was staff and shouts, i know i wouldnt do nearly the damage i do with bombs.

Even a post about the comunity, gets hijacked by the people who do nothing but come here and complaign. Somehow they decided this was another thread to talk about all the “nerfs” and the mysterios evil Devs (duhn duhn duhn). Heres a clue to all you people, there people, who work for a living, who do the best they can everyday, just like everyone else. They are not the gistapo.

Its pretty much just beed Rfreak, coming in and making this thread negative. And there are others on the board like him. If you think something is bugged, put it in the bug forum. Then leave it alone. If you think a class isnt fun, then dont play it anymore. If you think the developers of this games sole purpose in life is to cause you misery, then stop playing this game, and go outside.

This board is plenty active. And i find this place much better then having to read 7 threads on the first page of the mesmer forum, on why they need speed :P There are plenty of great Engineer builds out there, but when you use terms like Lamethrower, its pretty obvios youve already decided that everything is doom and gloom.

My first 80 was an Engineer, and i still play my engineer every night. Ive had plenty of diferent builds with him, and i always have a blast. Lately im trying to figure out what all the talk of “optimal” is. I think just about anyone can go into Spvp, or WvW, with just about any spec, and kill people and have fun. So whats “opptimal”. Is it killing 2 people at once? If i can do that does that make engineers good? Does that make a spec good? What about 3? How many people does it take to make a spec opimal.

Ive been running healing bombs for probably a month now. Its so not optimol :P But i kill people, and people kill me. I have fun. I never feel weaker then any other class out there. When i run in Spvp i run the tankcat build mostly, though sometimes i use FT. Same thing, i kill people, people kill me. I really dont know what the obsession is with Optimal around here :P Go out have fun. Play what you enjoy. If you dont like the Engineer anymore, dont come here and complaign about it. Go play something else. Or go outside. Enjoy your lives!

The thing i do not like about the Turret is, the detonate/overcharge mechanic. Most heals in the game, you push the button, then when the timer is up, you push it again for another heal. I dunno, i just havent gotten used to dropping it and picking it right back up. It feels clunky in WvW. And if i forget to pick it up or detonate it, i feel like i have to wait a long time to actually heal myself.

I used to be an Elixir H or nothing guy. I really disliked the Med Kit, and the Turret. Then i found the joy and love in the Med Kit. And now its all i use. I was missing so much with just using H! And now im wondering if im missing out on something with Healing turret? It seems very clunky, and hard to use. Any help/adivce/tips on healing turret?

Ive been using both of these kits, and i love them to death. I just have a blast in them. Currently im running my healing bomb build.

10 (3)
0
30 (5,2,11)
20 (4,9)
10 (6)

I like how tanky i feel. And im in love with healing bombs. Right now im just putting toolkit on my bar, without really changing my spec for it. But im really wanting the snare on smack ability. For after magneting and prybarface!

Am i asking for to much? Trying to mix two builds that probably shouldnt mix :P

Finally i sometimes run

0/30/30/0/10

With this spec i take The same dueling traits as above. They are the key. And the Illusions add 4% to damage trait. But i take 30 in the chaos line. I use this for Prismatic Understanding and illusionary defense. For a sturdier build.

I run full beserkers, and i love this build. I hit hard, and people die. Mindwrack, with all my clones, plus my mantra spike damage, plus my damage is more then people can take sometimes.

I am actually a full mantra Mesmer. Ive switched my traits a lot, sometimes weekly tweeks, sometimes daily! Let me bust out my spec for you.

I use either 30/30/0/0/10

Or

30/30/10/0/0

I run 1h sword/torch and Greatsword.

Important traits
In the domination line there are some great choices. Greatsword mastery is nice. And so is the Torch cleansing conflaguration. The most important thing in this line is the Harmonios Mantras.

In Dueling of course you want deceptive evasion. You will shatter with this build, so dont shy away from it. Empowering Mantras is the other half of this combo, and in my oppinion the most important part of a dps mantra build. To me you dont really need Harmonios Mantras if you have this, but ill get into that later.

Then for your last ten points you take Compounding power for the + damage per illusion. Or put 10 pts in the chaos line, for the safe fall, which i personally love.

Now something important!! No matter what anyone tells you, this build isnt just one directional. When ever you get into a keep fight scenario, or any zerg scenario. Switch your Domination master trait, from what ever it is, to Confusing enhancements. Put feedback on your bar, and go to town! I know this isnt going to kill anyone, but most “glamour mesmers” dont kill anyone with there feedback confusion spell either, they just use it for zerg control and tagging.

I almost didn’t make the list!! Mantra representing!!! What is Fay sick or something?? Anyways i dance around, then spike them down! 30/30/0/0/10. I am to old to hit things fast, so i just hit them hard now!

I use it in the cat fractal, against the harpies who knock you off the platforms. It saves my kitten every time there.

How are you getting swiftness from Mirror Images, Oci?

Not every class should be the same. We have a weapon with swiftness, and a rune set that can give us Swiftness. You don’t want to use the two runes, or the weapon. Then you don’t get speed.

I want to play a tripple meditations spec on my gaurdian with perma swiftness. I want to use all three of my utility spots on my thief with permanent swiftness. Same wtih my necro.

Every week there is a post on here about swiftness for Mesmers. Why can’t some of the classes just be faster? While some are stealthier? And some use clones. The same people that want everyone to have swiftness, rally against homogenization.

Ethics.4519:

Jester.1236:

Just use Centaur runes and Mirror as your heal. If you can put a few points in the chaos line it even makes it nicer. I never have trouble keeping up with anyone. And i am faster then most signet classes. Without having to give up a utility spot, which i need.

Do you suggest mirror over ether fest just for the 5 seconds reduced cooldown? I’ve just gone with default ether fest because nothing really stood out to me.

If you go with the mantra, would you proc swiftness on the initial meditation, and the 2 charge use afterwards?

Faya has a guide on here, that inculdes Mantra specs, and how to use mirror and the centaur runes to max capability.

Just use Centaur runes and Mirror as your heal. If you can put a few points in the chaos line it even makes it nicer. I never have trouble keeping up with anyone. And i am faster then most signet classes. Without having to give up a utility spot, which i need.

Just take a Mantra power build. Any of the mantra builds really. Its what i run, hits hard, and lots of toys.

I to, am interested in an answer on this.

So i had taken a break from my Engineer for a bit, and now i want to get back into him. Ive always run a FT/EG set up, but i wouldn’t mind trying something else. My problem is i’m sitting in a rough place gear wise.

Half my gear is Power/Prec/Tough. The other half is Con/Tou/Prec

I kind of want to go one way or the other. Can anyone tell me how well they are doing with a condition damage engineer? Or should i just focus on going full knights?

To me it seems like WvW sometimes is nothing but Mesmers and thieves. I’m not sure the Devs are going to line up to improve a class that everyone is playing :P

The Prestige is not the only reason i run torch. Well not the stealth part anyway. An Aoe blind, when im in my condition build, is an aoe confusion. Add to that a phantasm thats spamming confusion and it adds up nicely. I put out the phatasm especially on thieves. Phantasm, decoy and wait till my phatasm tells me where the stealther is. Most of the time he will show me, before the thief is even visible to me. Hes durable enough and hes ready for a shatter when i need him to be. The extra stealth is just an awesome bonus.

BTW Pyro i love how you shill your spec everywhere. It shows how much you love your class, and your character. There could be a post about the best food for a gaurdian, and you will post a link to your spec. Its just awesome!

Saffron scented poultry soup removes condition on heal. In some of the builds i run i use it. Its like having ten points in inspiration, without spending the points.

By not being so “stuck” on keeping the Mantras up at all times. I have found a build i love. I run around in small groups, and solo, a lot. And when i do, i use all three or even four mantras. But if i get into a keep take, i remove greatsword mastery, and pop in confusing enhancements. Put feedback on the bar, and im set to go. No, my feedback isnt dropping anyone. But in full condition damage gear, it wasn’t killing anyone either. It’s more of a deterent, and a great weapon in WvW.

The spec im posting is what i use when i’m in keep defense. When im roaming, which is 90% of the time. I add a third mantra.

http://tinyurl.com/auaw5u6

Every week we get a signet of inspiration for speed post. Do you all not use all of your utility slots? I Don’t want to go without one. I actually want another one! In WvW i don’t want to hope i have time to stay out of combat to switch my slots either. I keep asking thieves as is, to let me change weapons before they attack me, and they seldom oblige.

Put together a complete new set of gear for confusion damage. It seems so great in theory. I really enjoy the chaos line, which a condition damage spec allows for some room in. And i like the glamours a good deal. But for me i just haven’t been able to do it. I can get a good 5-8 stacks of confusion on someone. But only the truly bad, or someone in a mob mentality, really dies from this.

I run with a zerg sometimes, but mostly i run in small groups and solo. And the pure dropping power of my mantra build just completly over shadows the confusion spec for me so far. I feel like against a Gaurdian or Elementalist, there condition removal makes my condition build just about useless. I never feel this way with my mantra build.

I’m also kind of opening my mind about Mantras. I don’t feel the need to “constantly” have all the mantra’s on my bar. In a keep fight, i can easily trade out my greatsword mastery, to the “opponents who enter your glamour get confusion” trait. Sure i have low condition damage. But rarely have i ever seen someone drop from a glamour feild. There more meant to move the opponents around/reflect there damage/controll the feild.

I’m going to keep trying confusion. Every once in awhile i run into someone who will try to spam through it, and i drop them pretty fast.

I aslo kind of feel like i have to make a lot of rough choices with condition. For reliable condition removal i am taking either 10 in inspiration, or using the signets remove conditions, with my signet of midnight.

Just me touching base on where i am on my mesmer journey.

Imperatora.7654:

Engie’s can get it for just 10 points in Tools and which ever kit they are using anyway.

I said that in my first post in this thread.

Boon spec for a mesmer isn’t sub par at all. There are 2 boon type specs on the first page right now, for Mesmers. While i think the AH build, which is very popular with Gaurdians, dosent focus on the boon duration line at all. IIRC it’s mostly Honor and Valor.

Like i said before it’s all mindset. I WvW 80% of the time i play. And in WvW imo you need perma swiftness now days. But like i said before you and i play diferently. I dont love the stats on the centaur runes. Nor do i love the blind on SoS. But im betting i use my + power from my centaur runes, more then most theives use the blind on SoS.

I think i saw in another thread your still around lvl 40-50 on your mesmer. So you don’t have access to runes yet, so it might be frustrating for you. Plus Mesmers would be tought to level even if they had perma speed, and they don’t. (I could be wrong about the level, i thought i read you saying that in another thread.)

As it seems now, were just of two diferent oppinions because we play two diferent sides of the game. If i never went out into WvW i might see things diferently.

I have to give you props. I dont think ive met many pve thieves.

Like you said Gaurdian staff and Focus were roughly the same. Then you immediatly started talking about using utilities for speed again. And two of them. Now Save your self is an awesome ability. But i would never trait retreat into a utility spot.

I think you and I are talking about very diferent things. Your talking about something to get around the world with. Which is something you can turn off and on. Like you said in PVE non dungeons you can turn off SoS. You can turn off Retreat. And so for just getting around the world, in pve exploration. Then yes you are correct.

But in WvW or Dungeons. Locking down your utilities is not always the best thing. I have an 80 Gaurdian, boon specced. And i get perma swiftness just from my staff. But if i went boon spec with my mesmer. I could get perma swiftness just from the focus im sure.

On the Mesmer i use Centaur Runes for speed.
On the Gaurdian i use two monk, two water, and two of something else for boon duration.

Like i stated before everyone is paying a price for permanent swiftness. It dosent come easy. And even the slower +25% buff takes a huge tole. I can never imagine a time where i would want one less utility spot for my mesmer.

Ohoni.6057:

People act like everyone is given speed for free. I would never take a speed signet, like the thief, over my current set up with centaur runes.

It’s not like you can’t shuffle things around. My main is a Thief actually, and I would never tie up my gear with Centaur Runes when I can just swap in Shadow Signet instead. I only put it in when traveling, or when doing content that requires speed, but it takes only a second to swap it out for something better when in difficult combat. Same with my Necro, I throw in Locust instead of Blood is Power when running around, but swap it back whenever there’s a serious fight. Ele’s there is no tradeoff, my Ele can keep perma-Swift up AND have Ride the Lightning available, they are sick-fast.

But that’s the problem, every class does pay a cost for speed, and that’s fine, but Mesmers aren’t really given the option to try.

Sure they are. They have a weapon that grants them swiftness. I dont know the math. But having 50% swiftness 33% uptime. Vrs 100% SoS uptime 25% might be closer then people think. Really how much diferent is this then the Gaurdian staff?

Also you “can” switch off SoS, when you know exactly, that the combat is coming. Ill be generous and say you know 75% of the time, when your about to enter combat. Thats still 25% of the time your down a utility. Most of the thieves ive fought do not swap it out. They just leave it on, all the time. And it’s in a lot of the thieves builds on there section of these forums.

You could very well be better then most thieves. But that makes you the exception to the rule imo.

I use the mantra spec 30/30/0/0/10 for Cof and all dungeons. The best way to speed a dungone up, is to kill things as fast as possible.

Wow you guys are just awesome! Thanks so much for all the advice. I still have a lot to think about. But you have given me a ton of info to work with!

Thanks again!

Also i use Mirror for the synergy with Centaur runes. Since someone asked.