Guild Wars 2

The duration on blinds needs to be looked at.

VOD:
http://www.twitch.tv/soacgaming/b/422153223
Youtube link will be up soon™.

Most I’ve ever backstabbed a Guardian in tournament play without protection on is around 2-3k…
I must be doing something wrong…

I guess all stealths should be instant cast then.
Since, you know, there’s no possible way to avoid CnD or interrupt BP>Seeker/Hide in Shadows or pull them out of Refuge.
Nope. Not counterable.

*[6]3 [868767]
[6]35 312 [58767]*
6765323565 6765323587
6765323565 876765 535687
678766(3 21232)8767
6787665(53 212 32)876 7875
6765323565 6765323587
6765323565 876765 5356876... -Fairy Tail "Celtic Theme"

(321)65 (321)65 (321)56
667878 87(2)6 667878
6678(2)6 6678(23)
(3535431 121)68(23)
(3221 3535 3221 353565)
(32123 3212352)
(3221 3535 3221 353565 575535)
(321)65 (321)65 (321)56 - Angel Beats! "My Soul, Your Beats"

2455434 2466545 432 6 55432
[678 88788]22 123 432233
[678 88788]22 1253
55434343212343211
55434343212343433
2455434 2466545 2455434321
2455434 2466545 432 6 55432
-FUll Metal Alch Brotherhood OP4 "Period"

322 3322 211 [678]21
322 3322 22 2123
322 3322 211 [678]21
322 3322 22 1213
15511[6]12343
5543432
5511[6]12343 213 44
154345 13453875
1345555432 22 2123
154345 13453875
1345555358 87768
434512 434512 23 - Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann "Sorario Days"

You do realize the entire point of the 30 Acro and Energy sigils, right?
Its for utilizing the first sword auto (Slice).
Since the cast is instant, and the aftercast is huge, by dodge rolling it you’re filling in time that you would normally just be standing there kitten.

Combat in GW2 is far more dynamic than you make it out to be.
The fact the last auto in the Sword auto chain has 877 base dmg is meaningless when it means you have to land two 540 strikes with terrible aftercast and casts.
I can probably count the number of Crippling Strikes I’ve landed on one hand.

Let’s go into detail the main combos I use to maximize damage and evasion shall we?
FS>LS>Dodge:
Very simple. If the enemy is trying to hit you after LS you cancel the 1/10th second of aftercast with a dodge and evade their hit. This is especially useful for slow-casters like Necros and HGH Engies if you get the rhythm placed well enough timing it to each of his casts.
FS>LS>Slice>Dodge:
500,1000,540 dmg. This is the S/D’s set quickest form of burst damage but also very predictable and prone to dodges, dealing damage in a mere ~.75sec disregarding the evade time from FS. Far more dmg than the full Sword Auto-chain. And much easier to land.
FS>Slice>Dodge>LS>Slice>Dodge:
An evade, 500 dmg, a near instant 540 from Slice followed up due to FS’s lack of aftercast. This is effective because not only are you not risking your LS being evaded, but Slice has an EXTREMELY faster cast time than LS and allows you to dodge much earlier. This, unless the enemy times it extremely well (in which case just forget the Slice), gives your opponent a false sense of “ok, I have 1/2sec to hit him”. Either he tries to hit you, and likely fails, or he dodges expecting you to LS, in which case you followup after your and his dodge with a LS+Slice for 1000+540 dmg.

You have to constantly switch up your playstyle to remain unpredictable, predict your opponent’s dodges, and break your rhythm to dodge or Shadow Return when necessary to avoid big-hitters such as Mindwrack, Eviscerate, Pheonix/Grab.
This is what seperates 3-spam with proper S/D play.

And your preferred playstyle is what, exactly? Spam 1 with 25-30-0-0-15 because its “more dps”?

http://www.twitch.tv/loljumper/c/2452257
What you see: mindless 3 “spam” (?)
What I see: Counterplaying another good player’s counterplays(his trying to dodge my Larc Strike). Effective use of condi cleanse, well timed dodge-canceling of aftercast animation frames, combined with good dodge prediction (landed every hit but one slice I believe).

But by all means, Arganthium, if you want to show me how to “properly” play S/D, go ahead. I’m waiting.

Wat.

(youtube)/watch?v=tFtn_StLDgI
/watch?v=ka3uxxHViYM
/watch?v=2_bB5eE2YKg

S/D was far more balanced back then IMO. Similar to D/P, used every ability in the kit.
I was actually prepping to use it after the November patch, but turns out they just ended up destroying D/D and annihilating S/D. Not to mention Mug and 4sec reveal nerfs.
The current S/D practically has 2 abilities and the skill floor is set too low.

The S/D Acrobat build can fulfil the role of a bruiser and offer good sustained damage for your team.
The D/P Burst build is really weak after the mug change (slightly better than necro/war) and imo, has to be played like a “support burst” class. AKA: You don’t have enough damage to burst someone down or zone anyone from a teamfight yourself, so just run around with a mesmer or S/D ele, keep them stealthed, and line up your burst together.

If you want a burst class, you’re probably better off just rolling Mesmer in most cases.

He pretty much played it as the stereotype is portrayed, 3333333 dodgedodgedodge 33333333.
He wasn’t really mixing it up and properly animation canceling and reacting to his opponent as he should have been; 33dodge331dodge3dodge31dodge33dodge331dodge331 etc.
He is much better at D/P and I think his favouritism for the kit shows (he doesn’t really like the S/D playstyle).

WonderfulCT.6278:

I can’t lie, I have no idea what you’re describing. I’m not even sure if you’re talking sPvP/tPvP or WvW nor am I sure what you consider a base.

And I have no idea how one can’t recognize this as Legacy of the Foefire, GW2’s most iconic map.

These competitive PvE guys are leagues ahead of everyone else in meta apparently.

So this one time I shadow returned to a SR on mid (graveyard) from the tunnel area next to the enemy team’s base.
It ported me up ontop of the bridge.
o.O
Other times it just doesn’t work at all…

VOD:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZnlRlkC50s

Arkham Creed.7358:

Or at least that is what Arena Net and NC Soft think.

I’ve seen tons of threads talking about those boxes and other RNG elements of the game, and complaining about them. But do you know what else I’ve seen? People saying they’ve spent hundreds of dollars on those boxes. Yes those claims are always followed by “and I got nothing” or something of that effect, but all NC Soft sees is the hundreds of dollars part.

Hundreds of dollars which won’t be spent on future events.
I for one was thinking about buying a few to try to get the weapon skin (same as everyone else I’m sure). Then I came to the forums and read about the randomness of the drop chance. If they sold weapon tickets for, say, 1k gems each, I may even consider it. But I’m not gambling.

So after further testing I found the new mechanic implemented to the ground-target shadowsteps/blinks. Now, on top of having distance and angle, you also have to aim the blink at the VERY top of the ledge (This was previously not a necessity). Any pixel lower and it will fail. However, Shadow Return remains to seem bugged.

The Primary.6371:

Because he thinks being the first to show footage with him duelling someone with the spec is enough to allow him to wear the self proclaimed title. Actually that duel did show the clear cut counter to it but what ever.

I guess being the first one to bring my build into competitive play doesn’t cut it.
Nonetheless winning NA’s first major cash tournament.
Before Curse, having a thief was viewed as a liability and it was difficult for even me to find a team even willing to try to play with a thief. Even I myself was questioning whether this experimental build that seems to do ok in hotjoins would even work.
Others even laughed at the idea of it being played in tournaments.

Also if I’m not mistaken, Shadow Return is still a 1200 distance blink towards your original location regardless of LoS.
I can still Shadow Return through buildings like through the Clocktower.

Regardless, I have never had issues with Shadowstepping/returning until these past 2 patches.

Flesh Wurm shares the same mechanic as Shadowstep as a ground-target based Shadowstep and always has.

Anyways, here’s a small clip taken from some of the testing on Khylo. There are many more and many hours was put into testing other spots as well.
http://www.twitch.tv/loljumper/c/2419557

My team was queueing expecting to run into another well-known/high ranked group who were also playing at the time.
Two minutes pop and we get a 500-150 match against solo queuers and a few r20s.
What? Half of us are nearly r60 and in top 10…

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Evade-thieves are hated anyway . . . but my meditation guard became useless!

Well, I can live without Infiltrator Strike working most the time. I still have one good ability in my kit left. But this particular instance was with the Shadowstep utility. Basically, same thing applies to Shortbow.
This isn’t particularly S/D related although it does put a huge hamper on top of a completely unexpected nerf to Sword/Med Guards and Sword Thieves.

Several vertical teleports that did not abuse wall-clipping now have what seems to be a hidden RNG factor that decides whether it works or not. I’ve literally tried some of these blinks from the same angle/distance and had varying results.
This is, ofcourse, as opposed to positioning and angling yourself properly pre-nerf.
I’ve tested for a few hours and had multiple incidents in live matches.

Note: This is aimed towards PvP not pve/world.
Part 1: Understanding Basic Attack and Dodge Patterns-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLi9qZzsfFo
Part 2: Positioning, Targeting, and Shadowstepping-
[Coming Soon]-delayed due to recent nerfs/drastic mechanic changes

Todays mechanic change hit Sword thieves and DPS Meditation Guardians extremely hard.

Weapon Sets:

D/D-
Useless after /D nerfs. Overshadowed by /P in nearly every aspect especially after the 4sec reveal change. First off, revert revealed. Secondly, either bump up the dmg (I’d say about 75-85% the original would be good) or rework Dancing Dagger (plenty of options here including adding burn/poison—or possibly a daze similar to headshot but only when hit from behind) and revert the CnD 33% dmg nerf. Death Blossom could use some more base power to be used as a situationally skillful evade.

D/D(Condi)-
Needs more variety. Move the poison on the 3rd auto chain to the 2nd chain for more access to poison. Dancing Dagger could use a burn or something. The vulnerability from CnD could last a few seconds longer to help act as condi buffers.

P/D-
Pistol Mainhand dps is extremely weak. It doesn’t have the aoe or the evades that D/D does. I like the Shadow Strike skill but it doesn’t synergize with the kit at all which relies on you being in melee range to deal damage with CnD and Sneak Attack. The first step to fixing this is to bump up Vital Shot’s damage as well as possibly remaking the Pistol #2. The set needs more condition variety and/or more base power.

S/P-
Gets destroyed by retal. There should be a trait in Critical Strikes or something “on critical strikes, take 75% reduced damage from retaliation”. Something like that would probably be enough as well as reverting the 15% dps nerf to make up for taking said trait and haste nerfs.

P/P-
The entire kit is flawed. Needs a big rework. More dps on vital shot. Possibly consider making Unload a cone AoE similar to MF’s ult from League. Pistol #2 needs a complete remake possibly working in a leap or blast somehow. Again, smoke projectiles are EXTREMELY weak and there needs to be more incentive to use Black Powder. As said before, possibly make smoke projectiles do an extra 25-50% more dmg and/or make them pierce as well.

D/P-
The model thief kit. Every kit should aim to be like this one. Each and every skill synergizes so well and you use each skill depending on the situation. Paired with the Mug and Shortbow nerfs however, this set may be a bit sub-par compared to what other classes can bring to a team. This set I would place only slightly above Warriors and Necros currently.

S/D-
Pre-November nerf made for a very good control/cc spec. /D got destroyed and para sigils became broken. The daze was reduced from 2 seconds to 1 1/2sec. It was then hit again some months later with 3->4sec reveal.
Currently it is our best weapon set thanks to the Flanking Strike buffs. Most boon-based bunkers drop within a whopping 2 minutes of its pressure 1v1. It only has 2 skills outside of the autoattack however. The CnD>Tactical Strike is an extremely long cast to act as an interrupt and as such, is very rarely used. Once mesmer runes and para sigils are fixed we may see some variation if revealed is reverted to 3 seconds. Hopefully soon we get some reason to use /D#4 other than a ranged Basi Venom applier.

Shortbow-
Supplementary mobility for weapon sets that don’t include S/. Gives the thief teamfight presence when its too dangerous to jump in and eat aoe damage. Not suitable as a primary weapon set as there’s just no reason not to bring an HGH engie in its place. Was in a good spot a few months back but Cluster Bomb got hit with a 15% nerf and then hit again with Trick Shot now being able to be (easily) sidestepped.

Skills:
Caltrops-
Huge nerf from 15 to 10 seconds. Not quite sure why since condi thief is/was in an extremely weak state. Possibly tack on an immobilize for 1-2sec upon hitting initially and/or buff it to 3 stacks of bleed.

Smoke Screen-
Blinding Field that blocks projectiles. The concept is a bit lackluster. Possibly add reflect, but I would wait on this pending Pistol buffs. Also, I feel smoke projectile finishers are extremely lackluster. Whirls are strong, but I feel projectiles need something more like a secondary effect. Possibly auto pierce and/or increased damage or critical chance.

Shadow Refuge-
Extremely Strong. Has been mandatory since day 1. It’s our best team-support utility. We need more skills like this. This is not particularly thief related, but I believe stealth is capped a bit too high (14s) and creates too big of an advantage for game openers. I would feel good about it being around 8-9 seconds. Enough to reveal the enemy team/player shortly before arriving to the node from stealthing out of line of sight.

Roll For Initiative-
As a stunbreaker, lackluster. 60 second cooldown. Simply cannot even be compared to Shadowstep which is 2 stunbreaks on a 50 second cooldown, doubles as a 1200 range blink, and cures 3 condis on return. 6 Initiative is not worth the tradeoff. It needs to be at least a 40 second cooldown. Possibly lower than 40 and lower the initiative gain.

Haste-
Decent skill. May or may not see play if S/P gets the changes it needs.

ShadowStep-
Mandatory for most thieves not running Sword Mainhand—see Roll for Initiative.

Blinding Powder-
Simple skill. Instant stealth on a 40 second cooldown. Not terrible, but not great either. Situationally useful for getting instant interrupts (Sword) or no-cost backstabs (Dagger). Should be at least a 25-30 second cooldown to become a competitive pick.

Infiltrator Signet-
In a good spot. When traited, a 24sec 900range stunbreak blink.

Assassin Signet-
With the recent signet changes, more beneficial to be kept on passive. The cooldown is similar to mug so that’s fine for the most part, but I’d lower the cooldown by at least 5-10 seconds to help promote burst variety outside of Steal(Mug) and increase the damage per hit by 5% max.

Signet of Agility-
Extremely strong with the signet buffs. Especially with an acrobat-focused build.

Signet of Shadows-
Popular choice when D/D was around for securing stomps and roaming faster. With D/P around it sees very little use. Give it stunbreak on active to make it more uses outside of stomping. Blinding a backstab won’t help much when you’re still stuck in a Basi Venom for another second. Probably not enough of a change, but definitely wouldn’t hurt. 30->25sec cooldown would be reasonable, when looking at it comparatively with Infiltrator’s Signet.

Scorpion Wire-
Niche ability. What niche it fills? Outside of jumping puzzles I have no clue honestly. Physical projectiles are weak for the most part and the damage is extremely low. I’d pump up the damage by about triple.

Tripwire-
The strongest trap. Powerful when combined with pre-november nerf S/D thief dazes. Possibly in a good spot pending mesmer rune and para sigil fix with 4->3sec revealed. Could use a damage boost though.

Needle Trap-
Again, damage boost.

Shadow Trap-
Easily accidentally dodged or walked around. Needs a bigger radius to be even begin balancing.

Ambush-
Summon a thief that dies even quicker than you do. Oh, it also does mediocre damage and offers no utility. I’d like to see it replaced with the scorpion wire or the blinding powder spamming thief from Thieves Guild. Possibly give it a 50/50 like Engie elixers.

Venoms-
Take up too many utility slots. 45sec for a 1-1-1sec chill? Given, its far better with Venom Share, but still. I feel as if these need to be combined eg; Spider Venom and Ice Drake Venom combined to give a 8sec poison and 1sec chill on the next 3 attacks. Devourer Venom is really the only one worth using. It would be nice if new venoms were introduced. This could possibly help supplement the condition build. Maybe add a burning venom. Or throw it on top of Skale Venom so you have much needed condition buffers. (After all, you /would/ be saccing Caltrops to take it most likely)

Heals-
Signet of malice needs work. The other 2 are fine.

Elites-
Thieves Guild needs more HP (about 50-75% more). Dagger Storm leaves you extremely vulnerable to melee attacks and is basically just asking to put a target over your head. I suggest adding a 50% dmg reduction while in use. As it stands, neither can compare to Basi Venom.

My opinion on Thief balance (pvp) and suggestions.

Traits:
Critical Strikes is FAR too good. Either the traits need nerfs or the base stat gain needs to be halved. The base thief dmg should be brought up a substantial amount to allow for different amulet/trait choices (leaving Zerker, 30CS at the same dps as is now).

Deadly Arts is lacking. Improv is extremely situational. Backfighting is amazing, except when you go down in a teamfight as a thief, you are almost NEVER getting back up. Mug is a ‘meh’ trait now. Exposed weakness is ok but there’s a 25 trait 10% bonus in every other tree too.
Traits like Dagger Training, Combined Training, Sundering Strikes should be brought up by at least double. Right now, 30 in CS is mandatory for dps output. It would be great if DA could become an alternative with different tradeoffs than just being vastly inferior and supplementary.

Shadow Arts is lacking. I would like to see more support options such as Shadow Protector and less of “Stay in Stealth and get x healing/sec, or x condi removal, or x might”. More venom and trap support would do well here.
One example might be for Infusion of Shadow, (if coding allows for it) if you take this trait, gain 3 or 4 initiative from a skill that stealths you. Stealth cannot be stacked in duration when taking this trait.
Most likely a terrible suggestion (Shadow Refuge presenting problems), but the point is to promote more in and out of stealth instead relying on stealthing for 10-20+ seconds at a time. I mean, even when D/D was popular, people were running 25-30-0-0-15. If a build that relies on stealth every 3 seconds for backstabs can’t use this traitline, something is wrong. Possibly change Hidden Assassin to grant more stacks of might but only when entering stealth from a non-stealthed state (again, if coding allows). I feel this traitline may be the key (along with /D buffs) to bringing back D/D.

Acrobatics: Fairly balanced. Good amount of tradeoff for survivability. Assassin’s Reward could use some love though (as well as all other thief healing scaling ex. signet of malice). The might on dodge is ok but Thief really doesn’t benefit from hybrid dmg at all (this needs changes too hopefully when hitting base dmg—namely Pistol 1, D/D 3, and Cluster Bomb). I would like to see a Might power-condi build become viable.
Master Trapper could use some oomph-factor such as maybe ‘increase trap radius’ or ‘gain x initiative when trap is triggered’.
Fleet Shadow is extremely counterintuitive to Acrobatics as it doesn’t stack with swiftness. I feel if this trait were changed to stack and be nerfed to around 30% it would become worth considering.

Trickery: Simply feels unfinished. It’s like they got up to the 15pt and said eh, w/e let’s stop here and throw in some really bad traits. I almost feel as if Mug should be reverted and moved to 30 in Trickery. Maybe merge it with the 1-sec daze as well since that’s alot of dps you’re losing in trickery.
Bountiful Theft does not steal duration OR stacks. I feel possibly to synergize more, change it to: On Steal use, copy your boons to all nearby allies. Obviously, this is extremely powerful and would be moved to a 30pt trait along with Mug. Although it would synergize extremely well with S/D, be reminded that taking 30 in Trickery is a huge blow/tradeoff to your dps output (hopefully not /as/ much with base # tweaking and CS changes).
Instinctual Response (Along with Last Refuge), could be changed to give you a buff that stealths you on your next attack rather than stealthing you immediately
(likely in the middle of an attack and revealing you) to make this a more appealing pick up. Or, make it a different category of stealth which is immune to the revealed debuff.

bhagwad.4281:

Pixels.6532:

Where are we talking about d/p?

PvE – no one cares

Spvp – I have no experience on thief in structured tourney, hot join, who cares

WvW – d/p is not the #1 troll, invisibility spam build. That belongs to any x/d build in WvW where zergs, noobs and the hordes of red and yellow NPCs do not dodge CnD.

You forget that hotjoin is the heart and soul of pvp in guild wars 2. You can get a lot more glory and rank points in hotjoin. It is by definition the end game in pvp.

Endgame is #1 on leaderboards… winning LCS/MLG/IPL.

To crush your enemies!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PQ6335puOc

Vanthian.9267:

Jumper.9482:

Meaning, ofcourse, if you see a thief BP>Heartseeker and interrupt it, he will have just wasted 9/12 or 9/15 initiative. This is both assuming he has full initiative.
The former leaves the thief only with enough initiative to heartseeker. Let alone shortbow away for 6 or try the previous BP>Seeker combo again for another 9.

So let’s try asking this again.
You have the option to severely cripple a thief by interrupting/dodging/blocking their stealth.
You don’t do this because ____?

Because not all professions have the ability to do this. Some professions don’t’ have many options for ranged cc believe it or not.

Pretty sure most currently viable tPvP builds carry around 2 or more interrupts.

What you’re basically asking is that while there are 2 options to avoiding most damage in this game (avoiding the Shield Bash/BullCharge/iLeap/Updraft vs stunbreaking the damage portion Eviscerate/100b/BF/BurningSpeed), you not only want Thieves to be able to countered from going into stealth losing the majority of their initiative (skilled play, similar to dodging the setup of other classes), getting cleaved down by aoe or block/invulned/dodged (avoiding the damage portion), but also you want some third option because you’re too bad to react to the situation.

Meaning, ofcourse, if you see a thief BP>Heartseeker and interrupt it, he will have just wasted 9/12 or 9/15 initiative. This is both assuming he has full initiative.
The former leaves the thief only with enough initiative to heartseeker. Let alone shortbow away for 6 or try the previous BP>Seeker combo again for another 9.

So let’s try asking this again.
You have the option to severely cripple a thief by interrupting/dodging/blocking their stealth.
You don’t do this because ____?

I guess I’ll go make a post on the mesmer forums then…
MOA FORM IS OP!
It’s uncounterable once I let it hit me the mesmer just kills me!
(Just ignore the fact that I let it hit me in the first place)

No Walking.6349:

Demolition Man.3751:

requirements-rank50 and 90% games played on your class

Rofl. Have fun playing with these elitists O.o

Esports isn’t for fun bro.

Well, if you want to live in your own ignorant little world, that’s fine.
I’m just trying to help you l2p.
To think I was even nice enough to reply to a post QQing about how OP Stealth/Shadow Arts is…

Actually, there is plenty of play/counter play to entering stealth.
There is Dagger offhand (rarely used) Cloak and Dagger which is a huge tell and dodge/interruptible with a HUGE initiative cost.
There is Thief stolen ability and Hide in Shadows(heal) which both have obvious animations and easily interruptable.
There’s the D/P Black Powder Heartseeker which is again, interruptible and extremely easy to read.
And there’s the most easy of all to counter, Shadow refuge, aka. knock him out of the circle or just kill him.

The only “uncounterable” stealth a thief has is Blinding Powder, a 40sec cd utility noone uses.

By all means, go ahead and rant. I find it amusing.
No one (other than Cruuk) uses Shadow Arts. It’s a pretty sub-par traitline lol.

If I didn’t think this game had a chance, I’d probably be dominating the Smite scene right now.

ensoriki.5789:

EoNxBoNx.9213:

Mrbig.8019:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Shadow-Refuge is definitely a very strong utility, but makes the game really interesting and not that predictable. I think without shadow-refuge, the thief loose much viability for a team.
But in general I agree with stealth being a problem. It should be decreased slightly in its duration.

I can agree with that.

But you also have to think that shadow refuge is a MUST HAVE for any thief and, as you said, the thief will lose too much viability without it, meaning its a SINGLE SKILL which makes the class viable ( even S/D doesn’t really offer that much in terms of team utility).

It’s pretty much the same with mesmers, forced to bring IoL and Portal + random stunbreaker mostly because other u-skills are , yes strong, but not on par.

With the thief that’s is not even the case: there’s nothing as strong as shadow refuge, you’re basically a moron if you don’t pick it and are severely hampering your team capabilities.

Back in beta an engi could stack 20 + secs of stealth ( now there’s a cap ) with smoke fields+blasts, i believe it’s time to nerf shadow refuge+ shortbow and balance the thief profession better, because currently we’re helded back by these things ( devs will always say, regarding thief sucking, " but hey, they have massive mobility/AoE + massive AoE stealth, they’re fine !!! " when in reality, we’re not).

I don’t know if the right way to go about it by nerfing SB, but maybe buffing other weapons to give them mobility and blast finishers or more ways to survive. Currently SB can do all this for the thief; be very mobile around a map, stealth you with pistol 5 and SB 2, tons of evade, and good damage in team fights. The reason it seems so good is because no other weapon set can compare. And no other weapons have as much synergy as the SB do.

The same goes for D/P. That is the perfect example of how a weapon set should be. Using every single weapon skill together at all times.

At launch all 4 of our melee weapon sets S/P, S/D, D/D and D/P were used. S/P, S/D and D/P used all of their skills, D/D didn’t use death blossom. Somewhere along the lines Anet has nerfed things to the extent that S/D which previously used everything but very sparingly used FS, uses primarily FS and doesn’t use Dancing dagger and sparingly Cloak and dagger. Going from 4/5 or 5/5 skills to 3/5 or 4/5 depending on how you look at it.D/D used 4/5 now uses 3/5…not that it is being used. S/P still gets use of all it’s skills but you don’t even get rewarded for getting PW’s through it’s considerably long wind up time, being walked through if they have stability, or that half the skill can be walked out of after the stun. That’s if retal doesn’t kill you. How did we go from 4 sets that were all usable and outcried OP by the world to essentially 2 sets where 1 uses less skills than it did before…
/balance.

This. 100×. This.

Shadow Arts relies on being in stealth for extended periods of time.
That means: no node contestion, no damage soaking for your team, no dps for your team.
A standard 30 SA permastealth thief stays in stealth what? 3/4 of the game? You’re basically making your team 4 1/4 vs 5. Not to mention all those trait points wasted into Shadow Arts in the first place instead of useful dps traits.

tl;dr: Shadow Arts is REALLY bad. The ONLY trait I might consider picking up is 10 points for Infusion. And that’s only IF D/D were still decent for 4ini backstabs. But then you lose Fury on Steal (or ~15% dmg from other traitlines), and lets face it, you NEED that fury.

And wow, I never thought I’d see the day when someone ACTUALLY qq’ing about Tactical Strike.

The fabled 30-30-30-30-30 Thief, ladies and gentlemen.

Starting now.
15char

AkiraZero.8514:

I love when Thieves use the “l2p” response or try to claim that they are the squishiest class in the game – Lets face it, when you have the best mobility, best burst and are able to stay in stealth the majority of a fight… your squishy-ness really is meaningless!

Best mobility, with shortbow yes. This, however, is intended.

Best burst? No, S/D Ele does more burst dmg than dagger mainhand. And thats not even when built glass cannon.
Mesmer does the same amount as a full backstab mug combo…every 10 seconds…AOE.
Guardian and Warrior can both do far more burst than thief if specced for it.
Ranger pet burst can hit upwards of 15k (1shotting a thief)
Engineer 100nades build used to do ~16k+ instantaneously but it was nerfed.

Stealth majority of the fight? With 30 in Shadow Arts and D/P yes and they also lose out on a good ~20% of their dmg—not to mention the time stealthed not capping or helping teammates. That’s why nearly all Thieves in tPvP take 30 in shadow arts yes? Or is it only the super good ones?..

Enmity.3428:

Arganthium.5638:

Enmity.3428:

I only managed to watch 4 minutes 45 seconds of that 9+ minute video.

In that 4 minutes 45 seconds all I saw was auto-attack and Larcenous Strike spam. Literally, that was all you did, wasn’t it? 111111-333333-111111-333333…

Amazing, bro.

You’re sh*ttin’ yourself at the thought of ArenaNet nerfing your over-powered, cheesy, spammable, unblockable, evasive, boon-stealing, carry-me-to-victory chain-skill, aren’t you?

Please, teach me how to play as good as you do, o Holy One.

Haha! I don’t think Thieves need lessons from Warriors on how to kill!

Look, that post I made is just jealousy – I wish I could spam 2 attacks on my Warrior and win so easily.

Sadly, I’m forced to actually use all my skills and abilities if I want to do well.

And here we are wishing we had more than 2 viable attacks…

Great suggestion, would also add much needed viability to the P/D set (though I’m sure it wouldn’t be enough, especially with the caltrops nerf)

Arganthium.5638:

Enmity.3428:

I only managed to watch 4 minutes 45 seconds of that 9+ minute video.

In that 4 minutes 45 seconds all I saw was auto-attack and Larcenous Strike spam. Literally, that was all you did, wasn’t it? 111111-333333-111111-333333…

Amazing, bro.

You’re sh*ttin’ yourself at the thought of ArenaNet nerfing your over-powered, cheesy, spammable, unblockable, evasive, boon-stealing, carry-me-to-victory chain-skill, aren’t you?

Please, teach me how to play as good as you do, o Holy One.

I’m sure using Dancing Dagger, Cloak, and Infiltrators work extremely well as dps ini sinks.
Just no one has figured it out yet…
Guys, we’re all playing S/D wrong…

Enmity.3428:

I only managed to watch 4 minutes 45 seconds of that 9+ minute video.

In that 4 minutes 45 seconds all I saw was auto-attack and Larcenous Strike spam. Literally, that was all you did, wasn’t it? 111111-333333-111111-333333…

Amazing, bro.

You’re sh*ttin’ yourself at the thought of ArenaNet nerfing your over-powered, cheesy, spammable, unblockable, evasive, boon-stealing, carry-me-to-victory chain-skill, aren’t you?

Inb4 (much needed) dagger offhand (4&5) buffs.