Guild Wars 2

Clumsy.6257:

From the calculations above I keep seeing that sword is ~25% stronger than GS on single targets. Is that 25% including pet damage? If not the gap would be considerably smaller assuming that your running 2 felines.

I’ve brought this up in other threads too. If you include pets dps the difference in damage gets closer to negligible. I know from experience playing necro, rangers dont melee dps in the sense a necro can do with a dagger so it all seems a bit trivial to me which weapon you go with, looking at it strictly as dps.

Both sword and GS have advantages. Sword has a bit higher sustained while GS has a really nice spike, especially up front. Swoop+maul gives GS a really good spike head start in WvW that is priceless.

Solandri.9640:

Aren’t they changing it so you’ll lose the stacks if you switch to a weapon without the sigil?

Do you mean un-equiping the weapon? Would suck to lose all stacks just for switching.

theodor.3480:

Constantly being chased in wvw/pvp by thiefs/warrs because they think youre a free kill (sometimes they are the free kills)

Being attacked by warriors and thieves is one of my favorite parts of being a ranger… 9/10 they end up running (if they can).

Chrispy, looking at your dps numbers, you need to fill in autoattacks during Maul’s recharge. Certainly while using “maul” people are not simply waiting to hit maul again and doing nothing in between.

Also it seems to me that the evade does not take away from GS damage dealing, it seems like its concurrent to dpsing in my experience (going from memory).

GS bloodlust + battle (power build up)

Long bow fire + force (dps)

So far I prefer to stack up naturally to keep it interesting.

Bambula.3649:

sword has the better mobility than gs, so you can better engage and disengage.
only the second attack from the auto chain has no cleave, so even vs more targets you got the better dmg

There is no sword engage (aka charge) skill. Only GS lets you pick a target across the field and immediately be on them. You can fudge sword#2 to get some hops in the right direction but its no substitute for immediate target and swoop/bash/maul. I’ve played both quite a bit.

Swords cleave is tiny compared to GS to the point its almost not worth mentioning.

Sword has strengths but GS is far superior in these regards.

Theres more to it than just dps. GS cleaves, can engage from long range, and has a nice spike. Sword is a bit quirky to learn but rewarding once you do, since opponents will be equally confused by it.

I got it in early in the CDI thread, so I’m sure they read it.

Terravos.4059:

I’m referring more to the fact that the pigs are just awful in general, not even taking in account picking up the weapons

They do awful damage, they have an awful knockdown that’s incredibly short range and has a long cast time so you’ll only land it on people are bloody afk.

I use it more in zerg situations when people have better things to do than watch my pet. The knockdown is aoe so when it lands it actually shakes things up a bit Can just see peoples faces “wtf? hammer train..!? Nope think it was that pig…” :p lols

Terravos.4059:

The Stun from the boar is like 4 or 5 Seconds if I remember correctly with MoC

The Fear can get up to 9-11 seconds depending on your condition Duration, very very nasty fear.

The Daze is less then Technobabble from what I remember

While those are nasty abilities, the Boar is so awful its simply not worth using.

Yea its a drag to go dig that stuff up in the middle of combat, when your target will inevitably use a stun break for your efforts.

I do use a siamoth but more because its got good vitality to soak up conditions ala empathic bond, does the odd nice knock down, and being able to pre-stealth is handy at times.

Fluffball.8307:

Holy cow, that was the most obnoxious thing I’ve read on the internet. What inspired you to be so randomly rude to someone not being rude to you?

I have pretty extensive experience with hunting, I thought it was relevant. I’ve never tried to shoot a person with a bow obviously, but shooting one at a target or animal is extremely basic. Pull back and aim. My mother-in-law bulls-eyed the very first arrow she ever shot. Rifles are similarly simple, it’s the loading and safety and what not that confuse people.

What sort of experience with weapons do you have, by the way?

Sorry… not well rested so not feeling very diplomatic. If you read the article it makes it perfectly clear that long bows require extensive training by people that made war for a living.

Ive shot bows before, including one that had fully penetrated a bear and killed it instantly (from the owner and where he came from and his conditioning I dont doubt it). I could only take a couple shots with it and forget about aiming (and I have worked out for years and have some pipes). There are many different pulls and english longbows could get well over 100lb. To fire multiple shots (PROPERLY) with that in succession you would need to be build like Arnold schwartznegger in his prime. If you are then I stand corrected.

Long bow archers were the elite forces of the English army in their time for a reason. They were not easily replaced. This is historical fact.

Ive also shot lots of guns, rifles etc. There is nothing easier. Sure you can train to get better accuracy at longer range, but its use is the height of simplicity.

Fluffball.8307:

Having used both bows and rifles, they both took roughly the same amount of time to get reasonably good at; maybe half an hour. Obviously they are modern weapons, but my dad uses archaic versions and does just fine.

At any rate, we use the weapons in very remote wilderness, like say, a ranger would.

Facinating! I guess we can take from this Europe and 18th century America dont know much compared to you and your dad. Thanks for sharing!

Phenn.5167:

Until true collaboration takes place here, I worry that the initiative is failing.

They have “collorated” by saying the pet is here to stay, and work within that context. Yet so many posts to complain they dont want pet and ask for stowing.

Cant collorate with people that dont listen, what do you expect from them?

Yea I’d like to see a change like this. You can make it work but it shouldnt be so gimmicky imo.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Kilger.5490:

The fact that rangers dont use guns or pistols is part of their character. We are masters of the bow. Guns became popular because people can use them easily, using long bows proficiently requires lifelong training. A gun toting ranger would just be a hack ranger. Warriors are masters of weapons so it makes sense they use both.

Yeah… no. Anyone can shoot and gun and anyone can shoot a bow. To be truly good at either still takes just as much training.

I want to be the white guy from Last of the Mohicans. He was a ranger without a pet. Hitting things with axes and shooting them with rifles. He was not a soldier.

Obviously talking out your kitten but read this

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2964/in-1776-why-didnt-soldiers-use-bows-and-arrows-instead-of-muskets

Skip to the last 3 paragraphs for the summary of real history instead of your made up stuff.

Thieves rarely give me serious problems and generally fun sparring matches where they stealth off eventually, but the other day I got hit for two 8k backstabs and a 5k cnd in a few seconds, stealthed between each hit.Yikes!

Wish I could find that guy to spar a bit. I was getting complacent (just off afk) and I could have taken some measures to avoid, but really doesnt give you much room for error. Wondering what was different about that build.

Had a thought of something unique… All ground targetted aoe nature type effects, either like wells or channeled

1 auto = energy attack, every third attack entangles (kind of lacking in long range disables)
2 Monsoon = Enemy range reduced to 25% + water field + dps (water fields valuable to groups)
3 insect plague= dark field + torment (we could use some torment)
4 Plant door = similiar to necro flesh worm except you teleport when you cast and in your place a plant tree thing, which grants aegis to allies, clears 3 conditions on user and aoe attacks nearby enemies for dps + chance to knockdown + whirl finisher (need an escape and some condi removal)
5 Lighting Storm = Raw aoe damage, blast finisher on creation, chance to stun on crit (damage, nuff said)

Just some thoughts for a unique role. Thinking this gives cc and aoe damage, both very desired.

(edited in what I was going for with the ideas)

Really liking this idea as a way to breath a new dimension into the class by letting us go shaman/druid route, and maybe change the perception of the class as something that can add something others cant. I would suggest all weather/plant/animal based effects, and aoe damage is where we could use improvement.

Traveler runes… :p

The fact that rangers dont use guns or pistols is part of their character. We are masters of the bow. Guns became popular because people can use them easily, using long bows proficiently requires lifelong training. A gun toting ranger would just be a hack ranger. Warriors are masters of weapons so it makes sense they use both.

phys.7689:

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Kilger.5490:

There have been ideas presented that make the pet virtually not there.

ie a trait or option to switch pet to an impervious passive buff machine that just follows you around.

I think this is the closest to stowing we could hope for because they’ve said pets are here to stay. I would push this idea if stowing is what you want because its basically the same effect.

I don’t care what they do with the pet, as long as I get the damage back.

do you really want to play a ranger? or would you prefer a different class with bows, and burst dps?

pets is really the defining charachteristic of ranger. I really think the devs for ranger should be improving pet response, pet combo/interplay and pet control, rather than negating the pet.

I cant help feeling some of the people play ranger because it has a bow, and they always play the ranged class, rather than because they actually want to play a class whose main mechanic is using various pets to good effect.

Your suggestion is good too, but they’ve also said the problems are deep in the code and will be difficult to work out. The idea is just to have options for different play while not taking anything away, this is in the spirit of the game. An impervious buffing pet (my original idea a year ago was it was an animal spirit so ghostly) is just an option some people may want to use, but it wouldnt be forced on anyone.

edit: the pet swap mechanic would still be used, since different pets would give different buffs (ie defensive/offensive) and even the f1 could provide an active effect for a short duration. The existing system could still remain in place, the animals could even be found in a new zone and added harmoniously to the existing.

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Xaylin.1860:

Stowing a pet and gaining some benefits is reasonable for certain areas of the game. Perma-stowing and receiving a 100% damage compensation for it defies the purpose of a pet class. If you don’t like pets, don’t play a pet class. It is a design decision by ANet that the Ranger is the pet class. You might like it or not but that is their vision.

While the pet is a huge part of the ranger mechanic, the ranger is not only defined by its pet. if you would remove the pet, the class would still work. Furthermore, the pet is the only classmechanic with drawbacks attached to it. You gain advantages but you also have disadvantages. Me and a lot more don’t want to use the pet. We should not be forced to use it in order to be competitive. We don’t suggest to remove the pet entirely. We just want to have it optional. Furthermore, this is was Allie said:

Allie Murdock.8152:

As Orca pointed out, some people aren’t as fond of the pets. The idea of the buff would be to appease everyone. Also, what if stowing the pet and having an aspect gave the Ranger some kind of aura that communicated to others they are in that “aspect”? Would it still feel like the pet was a part of you if them being stowed affected your physical appearance?

If not, I don’t think the aspect idea would be a necessity for players. There are definitely things that need to be done to fix Ranger pets in general, and it’s something we are well aware of. If we fixed those things, but maybe also added in the aspect idea, I think we’d be in a spot where everyone would be pleased, no?

Just musing!

There have been ideas presented that make the pet virtually not there.

ie a trait or option to switch pet to an impervious passive buff machine that just follows you around.

I think this is the closest to stowing we could hope for because they’ve said pets are here to stay. I would push this idea if stowing is what you want because its basically the same effect.

Work at it you’ll be fine. I scratch my head at all the ranger hate since I see pretty clearly my contribution, and even though I’m not built for 1-1 hold my ground very well there too. Its true I dont give out any buffs, but then how many guardians and warriors do you need for that?

SoR had the pin thing down, they consistently had the entire map in one blob all the time (practically) so they could kill you by lag alone. BG & JQ do it too, but could pretty much always count on SoR doing it. I’m kind of glad they went away.

I put in a immob/chill/cripple cure suggestion on lightning reflexes, think that ones pretty universally wanted (and warranted!).

Specific Game Mode
WvW – could apply to all

Proposal Overview
Lighting reflexes to remove movement impairing conditions (at least immob.)

Goal of Proposal
Its assumed that lighting reflexes is an escape skill primarily and presently is defeated by immobilize. Being a trait that is specifically slotted (and takes the spot of other abilites) on a 40sec cooldown, it is expected to achieve a short reprieve.

Proposal Functionality
The skill would cure immobilize primarily, preferably also chill and cripple

Associated Risks
There are perceived balance issues with ranger condition removal. If this is intended then the ranger will be less condition vulnerable to movement imparing conditions.

Would be nice if GS#5 had a longer leap on it, only rarely seem to get a stun out of it. That would make maul easier to get too.

Long bow is the essential ranger tool in your kit in WvW imo. Or play another class because its in the top 3 reasons to play ranger. that and muddy terrain and the unique buffs.

Most Power spec necros do great damage if left alone and are fully charged.

Necros are a good class, there are a lot of bad ones that make you underestimate them, then you run into someone who plays it well (or just has a nice spec) and you get spanked and wonder what happened.

I never make that mistake having played one lots, you need to keep disrupting them. Necros are one of the easiest classes to disupt btw, having little by way of stability.

Cufufalating.8479:

Its funny how they keep buffing Bark Skin. Its already a fantastic trait and it always was… The problem is most ranger builds are forced into taking EB for condition removal. If they gave us better condition removal people would use Bark Skin.. but as it stands, they could buff is to be a perminant damage reduction and many many people still wouldnt use it.

Too true. I keep messing with my build, going nature line instead of wilderness, and hoping that lemongrass soup would make up for lack of EB, but knowing it wont…

Vox Hollow.2736:

Martial Mastery wouldn’t affect Greatsword anymore.

If this change happened Martial Mastery would read:
Reduced recharge on Sword by 20%. Grants 1 second of vigor when you successfully evade an attack with a sword skill.

ahaha got it, they moved cooldown to the nature magic GS trait… i actually wanted this

It made no sense where it was since GS does no condi damage anymore.

I’m thinking its mis-printed… would make more sense for the cooldown to stay on spear and greatsword, while for sword (where the cooldown reduction wasnt worthwhile) they are giving a vigor buff.

Vox Hollow.2736:

Sorry, Kilger, but I love more active traits like this.
Even if it’s fake I think this trait is a great idea, and traits that encourage more active play was honestly one of the things I was going to bring up during CDI.

Moar, Moar, I say!

Well its going to kill GS for me, maybe I need a change anyway. Pretty useless on GS, you cant really control the evade well.

edit: actually makes me pretty sure theres something not right here.

Wilderness Survival X—Martial Mastery: This trait no longer reduces recharge on greatsword and spear skills. This trait now grants 1 second of vigor when you successfully evade an attack with a sword skill.

Like the changes but this…. wtf is this???? I like martial mastery on my gs, one of the things that makes gs work for me as the cool downs are too long otherwise. Not liking at all, change it back

Trolls Unguent with high toughness, and no complaints. Its a very powerful heal with its own advantage = you can use it to “pre-heal”. Get it going when you first take damage and you dont have to worry about heals while you are trying to fight. Hint – it still is working while you are dodging and evading.

LOL.. yea really…! Rangers have awesome condition removal, why would they want more? Silly rangers.

(personally i use eb, but would be tempted otherwise)

AoE and bags are nice, but I see rangers main contribution is singling out a target for death. This is what a longbow build does really well. Some zerg vs zerg is a stalemate and getting those individual downs is what tips the balance in your teams favor. We may not have the highest dps, but we can maintain that dps wherever that target goes (within 1500).

Per the OP’s build I wouldnt leave your defense so lacking, its what makes us the first ones targetted. You’ll lose a bit of damage but at that point you can gain a lot of vit/tough for a little bit sacrificed.

STEALTH on LB#3 is way too “hit or miss”…. LITERALLY.

I dont think there needs to be more stealth on ranger!!

But the ability to achieve it is really random atm. I’d like to see LB#3 either stealth on use (instead of hit) OR be unblockable and not require a firing arc so it could be used while running and less nuisance misses.

Other random suggestions and observations:
- Axe damage could be made less random by allowing a friendly bounce
- F2 pet abilities that are boons can be very tempermental, can these not be made instant?
- Idea to have an option for pet to be a passive boon giver has been suggested
- Some traits should be re-arranged; GS no longer does any condition damage so martial mastery could be moved from condition line, for instance
- Lightning reflexes would benefit a lot from immob. removal

CRrabbit.1284:

You know, the biggest problem of our ranges weapon (currently only LB can be considered as a real ranged weapon) is —-— It’s not reliable.
The DPS of LB is OK on non-moving target since it’s a range weapon, BUT it missed too much on moving target.

Yea I agree it is a pain in the butt. Sometimes I get a stupid “out of range” message when a moving person is clearly in range, and being hit by the arrow. Then I start hitting them after they have moved even farther away. Thats something i would like fixed.

Bull – charge. Knock around the zerg like bowling pins. Nuff said.

I find it sad how much hate is there, i have to leave team speak sometimes because I get tired of hearing how my class is useless and I should play something else to be useful in wvw.

The thing is, its not true, I can beat down warriors and guardians, and if zerging be the last survivor in the zerg, but it doesnt matter because opinion is where it is now.

There is some truth, its easy to build a weak ranger. But I agree with most people here, when people die to an arrow they are very indignant and get very upset.

kiwituatara.6053:

and again… ranger = range (“Rangers are unparalleled archers” – Anet)

“Unparalleled” is an ambiguous term, you could say we are unparalleled since we can use both long and short bow. There is no parallel to that in the game.

Words are just words. For one I am glad we are decent at melee also.

We probably have enough stealth, but I wouldnt be adverse to a smoke field since they said they were looking at more combos for rangers. Seems that it would go nicely with fire trap or torch as a lingering effect.

What I think we really could use though is a more reliable stealth on LB#3. Either make it so it doesnt rely on a hit, or at least make it unblockable and fire-able while running so it doesnt require a frontal arc to hit.

Manbo.5403:

May change with the double sigils in 2h weapons update.

Cool! about time they changed 2h weapons to be on par with sigils…

Not sure whats considered high in peoples minds, but its possible to get 3-4k hits with long bow on auto, and 12k rapid fire while still being fairly tanky.

While leveling I couldnt use longbow/gs, but at 80 its much improved with all the traits and proper gear.

If ground target would make the pet more sure of when and where it was doing its foraging, instead of being conflicted whether to follow me or do its f2, then by all means, please change!!

Other benefit is knowing where it will place it, sometimes it has some dumb AI routine to follow and goes and forages who knows where.

GS block is really underrated too, unless your counter-attack goes off you have 4 sec of virtual immunity.

Xyonon.3987:

I want an Octopus

Oh, that would be very cool..!

Rendolphe.5086:

I know it’s scary the idea to get wipe by a small group while hiding in a zerg …

The only advantages you should get from getting into zerg is the number of players. Not the mitigation of the damage because the AoE cap is set at 5.

That mechanic will force people to think more then just stacking and running. They will need to SPLIT and start thinking that a small burster group could hurt the zerg.

Thoses who are against my suggestion are zerger or don’t know about WvW basic fundamentals.

You seem to “know” a lot dont you? Dont look down, your maturity is showing…

Without aoe cap there would be far far more CC to deal with too.

Thats not fun.

I’d like my aoe to hit more too, but I get it.

Also AoE classes would be absolute god. I’d roll a zerk ele and utterly destroy zergs = a lot of crying = a lot of people quitting.